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=> General Discussions => Topic started by: wigglytug on June 01, 2012, 10:01:11 PM

Title: questions about bill wiese
Post by: wigglytug on June 01, 2012, 10:01:11 PM
 from what ive seen of rays work about bill wiese bill wiese its clear that his probably a liar, but however i heard that he doesnt accept donations or large speaking fees.. i am a bit confused.. so what is really up witht his guy :-\  what do u guys think he is really up to

 anyways i really enjoed reading rays 50 contradicions but there something about number 13 that i have a few questions about, wiese said that there were both indiudual pits of fire were people burn AND one giant pit were people burned i dont get it why :-\ are there both indudual pits AND a giant pit were everyone ws buring :-[
Title: Re: questions about bill wiese
Post by: servias on June 02, 2012, 12:09:25 AM
Welcome 1st poster Wigglytug.

He may not accept donations but I'm sure his books are for sale at the door.  I've seen 23 minutes in hell at walmart too.  So its very mainstream. 

So do you believe people are or will be burning in pits??  Forget what weise said what do you believe?

EDIT:  SORRY I misread, when you mentioned the number 13 I thought you were referring to something you learned from Weise not what you read from Rays contradictions...

Dan
Title: Re: questions about bill wiese
Post by: Dave in Tenn on June 02, 2012, 01:41:31 AM
Don't know Mr. Weise, but I see he has a new book.

I looked at his speaking 'itenerary' on his offcial site.  It looks kinda thin, but I don't know how often it's updated.

The 'contradiction' in #13 is that in one part of his book he claims that individual pits hold one "lost soul", and in other places he claims that several or many people are in one pit.  He says that there is no communication or interaction in one place in his book, then describes communication and interaction on other pages.

Is that any help?

Nice to meet you.

   
Title: Re: questions about bill wiese
Post by: wigglytug on June 02, 2012, 02:09:18 AM
yeah it does,  it turns out he wrote another book were he answers questions about hell did anyone see it or read about it http://www.soulchoiceministries.com/shop/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=SCM&Product_Code=B002&Category_Code=
Title: Re: questions about bill wiese
Post by: Dave in Tenn on June 02, 2012, 02:39:19 AM
I just read a few pages of the sample.  Same old same old...justifying a place that doesn't exist with a belief in free-will that doesn't exist.  One thing stood out to me:  He quotes Proverbs 8:13 He who answers a matter before he hears it, it is folly and shame to him.  I wonder if he would be willing to apply that verse to himself instead of his readers?
Title: Re: questions about bill wiese
Post by: wigglytug on June 02, 2012, 02:49:55 AM
but still some people say that he dosent keep the proceeds for his book and gives it away i am just confused about WHAT is going on
Title: Re: questions about bill wiese
Post by: Dave in Tenn on June 02, 2012, 03:01:41 AM
Write him and ask him, if you'd like.   :)  A lot of preachers of eternal torment are not rich and have no overarching desire to be rich.  Many are like Paul who did what he did in ignorance and unbelief.  Some know the truth, but withold it.  We're not accountable for the sins we don't commit, are we?  I have no information on Mr. Weise's personal finances, but maybe somebody else does.       
Title: Re: questions about bill wiese
Post by: patmokgoko on June 02, 2012, 04:52:00 AM
I think I will write a rebuttal of Bill's new book, he has a lot of problems trying to justify his imaginations, he says God is not the father of all but He is the creator of all.Is his second book about things he forgot to mention in the first book or is he doing damage control.As for the issue of him collecting money, it depends what his motive was from the beginning,what  if his motive was fame.As for the selling of his books why doesn't he distribute them freely to  the poor, surely such a warning is not only meant for those who can afford to buy the book(s).Wigglytug, do you really believe that he gives away all the money he makes from his books, like I said, rather have many copies printed and send to the poor than ...You ask "what is he up to?" I answer "fame and money".If his warnings are from God then his book(s) should be attached to the Bible or what do you think, oops, we have a problem, we are not supposed to add to the Word of God {Rev 22:18}.Galatians 1:6, stay firm, if you have questions regarding Bill don't ask his followers, to them he is a hero/role model.Stand firm my brethren because there is no fear in love,I love you.
Title: Re: questions about bill wiese
Post by: Gina on June 02, 2012, 05:16:29 AM
23 Minutes in Hell

Why should you believe me?

"I can appreciate and understand why you might be skeptical in regard to my experience. I KNOW I WOULD BE" (23 Minutes in Hell, p. 87).

What? Bill says he "gets irritated" with those who do not believe in his hell, and then turns around and tells us that he would be "skeptical" himself of his own story. Is Bill seriously trying to tell us that Jesus expects people to believe Bill's fabled, unscriptural rendition of a pagan hell perpetrated by the Christian Church, Muslims, and others, when Bill himself has a problem believing it and it is he himself that supposedly experienced this awful place so that he could convince skeptics of its reality? Can you not see the total contradictory nonsense of his story? There is nothing consistent in his story, and all of his stories and supposed experiences contradict all of the Scriptures, besides contradicting all the major laws of science and physics.

Bill concedes that not even "conservative Bible teachers" would believe his story: "I came from a conservative background where I received sound biblical teaching from conservative Bible teachers who would probably shun my experience ... many of them would have an incredulous opinion about God taking someone there for an experience such as the one I had. AND I WOULD AGREE, for I too have been skeptical of such 'experiences' in the past" (p. 87). Yet, Bill expects people to believe what even he finds (to use his own word) "incredulous!"


http://bible-truths.com/23-minutes-in-hell.html (http://bible-truths.com/23-minutes-in-hell.html)
Title: Re: questions about bill wiese
Post by: arion on June 02, 2012, 09:20:38 AM
You may want to listen to the audio teaching that Ray did on '23 minutes in hell' long before he did his paper.  When Ray goes through the contradictions there is no way an objective person can pay any attention to what Wiese has to say.  It will just engender more confusion.

http://bible-truths.com/audio/Bible%20Study%2007-06-08%20Pt_1.mp3

http://bible-truths.com/audio/Bible%20Study%2007-06-08%20Pt_2.mp3
Title: Re: questions about bill wiese
Post by: Foxx on June 02, 2012, 10:28:47 AM
Mr. Wiese's most recent book is called Recession Proof Living...oh boy... Here is the synopsis:

 "Wiese had a successful real estate career spanning over thirty-five years—through both good and tough economic times. Early in his career, he made the decision to carefully study the Bible and apply God’s methods to every move that he made. As a result, he attained success that was unheard of for many other agents, simply because he adhered to God’s plan.
 
In Recession-Proof Living, he shares these biblical principles along with true stories of his experiences to demonstrate how anyone can achieve success—spiritually, financially, physically, and corporately—by living according to God’s economic system.
 
Not simply a book about how to make money, Recession-Proof Living shows you how to live a life that guarantees success—God’s way. Even if every effort and method you’ve tried has failed, living by God’s standard won’t."

Wow so God talks about things that will help me to attain financial success as long as I obey him? And this is promised? I don't know about you but I already found 3 scriptural errors in just this little bit of text about the book.According to him anyone can achieve these things! Well, we need to get this book to poor people in third world countries who believe in Jesus so they can have financial and physical and corporate success!

You know, if people saved their money instead of spending on this snake oil salesman's books, then they would be better off...
 

Title: Re: questions about bill wiese
Post by: Marky Mark on June 02, 2012, 01:15:10 PM
Quote
so what is really up witht his guy  what do u guys think he is really up to


This guy is up to exactly what God has him to be up to,that is,doing the lusts of his father, the devil...

Eph 1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

Joh 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

1Pe 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:

Eph 6:12 for it is not ours to wrestle with blood and flesh, but with the sovereignties, with the authorities, with the world-mights of this darkness, with the spiritual forces of wickedness among the celestials."

Bill is reaping what he sows in his 23 minutes of distortion.

Mat 25:26 Thou wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strawed:

Psa 18:25 With the merciful thou wilt shew thyself merciful; with an upright man thou wilt shew thyself upright;
Psa 18:26 With the pure thou wilt shew thyself pure; and with the froward thou wilt shew thyself froward.

Bill has received his answer according to his idols.

Eze 14:4 Therefore speak unto them, and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Every man of the house of Israel that setteth up his idols in his heart, and putteth the stumblingblock of his iniquity before his face, and cometh to the prophet; I the LORD will answer him that cometh according to the multitude of his idols;

The Lords treasures will not be taken lightly.

Mat 25:24 Then he which had received the one talent came and said, Lord, I knew thee that thou art an hard man, reaping where thou hast not sown, and gathering where thou hast not strawed:
Mat 25:25 And I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, there thou hast that is thine.
Mat 25:26 His lord answered and said unto him, Thou wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strawed:
Mat 25:27 Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and then at my coming I should have received mine own with usury.
Mat 25:28 Take therefore the talent from him, and give it unto him which hath ten talents.
Mat 25:29 For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath.
Mat 25:30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Evil will not prevail,Bill will go to the lake of fire...

Luk 19:22 And he saith unto him, Out of thine own mouth will I judge thee, thou wicked servant. Thou knewest that I was an austere man, taking up that I laid not down, and reaping that I did not sow:

Gal 6:7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

Mat 18:34  And his lord was very angry, and put him in the hands of those who would give him punishment till he made payment of all the debt.

Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

1 Cor 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
1 Cor 3:14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
1 Cor 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.


Peace...Mark
Title: Re: questions about bill wiese
Post by: longhorn on June 02, 2012, 09:27:29 PM
The amount of time you spent reading or watching anything BW say's are minutes of your life you wasted and simply cannot get back, it's gone. Your time would have been better spent doing anything else.  I wasted 30 minutes of my precious time reading 30 minutes in hell, and I could have been more productive pulling ticks off my dogs butt.

Longhorn
Title: Re: questions about bill wiese
Post by: wigglytug on June 02, 2012, 10:48:18 PM
yeah i know it just boggles me just what is up with this guy
Title: Re: questions about bill wiese
Post by: Gina on June 02, 2012, 11:43:19 PM
That's not for us to say, Wigglytug. 

(Longhorn?!! But you know what?  You're schmabsolutely, positively correct.)

Besides, Wiggly, we're so busy reading all of Ray's articles and studying, we don't have the time or the desire to read that junk, which amounts to nothing more than adulterated infant formula. 

Blechhh.  Silliest thing I ever saw.  But I did enjoy Ray's refute to 23 Minutes in Hell http://bible-truths.com/23-minutes-in-hell.html (http://bible-truths.com/23-minutes-in-hell.html).  Have you read it yet?  Or are you just tugging our chain? ;-)
Title: Re: questions about bill wiese
Post by: wigglytug on June 03, 2012, 12:30:43 AM
yeah i realyl liked that stuff, but was that link to the post to the email between ray and his hater deleted :-\ at anyrate it wasnt really worth reading
Title: Re: questions about bill wiese
Post by: Gina on June 03, 2012, 02:26:53 AM
You'll like this, I bet:  http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,14197.0.html (http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,14197.0.html)
Title: Re: questions about bill wiese
Post by: Samson on June 03, 2012, 07:06:08 AM
;D ;D ;D  What I find ironic and funny is it was Ray who introduced me to Bill Wiese and his teachings.

I religiously avoid all churches and screwball writers like Bill Wiese and his ilk.  For me to read a book by Wiese is as likely as me reading a book about gardening or vegetarians.

Also what I find funny, and one proof that there is no free will, is that I ever would click on a website called Bible-Truths.com.  Totally out of character for someone like me.   8)


John's above comment pretty much sums it up for Me, but for most of my life I rarely agreed with the Status Quo type beliefs found in most Categories of learning. Finding Bible-Truths for Me doesn't seem surprising at this time, but when it happened, I wasn't specifically looking for it, it seemed like an "accident " at the time, was looking for something else, but in the beginning, I just couldn't stop reading Ray's Emails and responses, it was contagious with such logical answers, Well, at least logical to Me.

However, when it comes to Orthodox Christianity Type explanations of the Scriptures, I rarely if ever bothered or bother to read their redundant explanations, had heard those explanations in the past and was never satisfied, too many holes and inconsistencies in their arguments. God's 100% total Sovereignty and no Free Will pretty much destroys all the other Babylonian Doctrines for Me.

Thanks, Samson.
Title: Re: questions about bill wiese
Post by: wigglytug on June 03, 2012, 02:08:33 PM
yeah i know how can there be free will if God knows everything and is the creator and sovereign of the universe, to say that there is actually free will (no matter what i or anyone likes to think) would be a direct challenge to that sovereignty
Title: Re: questions about bill wiese
Post by: musicman on June 03, 2012, 06:52:17 PM
Here are explanations to several of the book's contradictions.  And they come from a prime source.

http://churchgod.hubpages.com/hub/Bill-Wiese-is-a-Profit-of-Righteousness-and-Honesty
Title: Re: questions about bill wiese
Post by: wigglytug on June 19, 2012, 03:04:08 PM
hold on did bill wiese in his book say that after he was attacked by the demons that his wounds just healed and the demons kept tormenting him
Title: Re: questions about bill wiese
Post by: Gina on June 19, 2012, 05:49:16 PM
Don't take this the wrong way, Wigglytug, but you sound to me like you're no older than nine or ten years old, tops, and if so, you're too young for this forum.

Schools out and Summer's here.  Surely, you have one or two friends you can play with? :)
Title: Re: questions about bill wiese
Post by: wigglytug on June 19, 2012, 05:50:56 PM
Don't take this the wrong way, Wigglytug, but you sound to me like you're no older than nine or ten years old, tops, and if so, you're too young for this forum.

Schools out and Summer's here.  Surely, you have one or two friends you can play with? :)

 no no its just that i think i think too deeply into this story...i think deeply into just about everythin. and i still have school right now
Title: Re: questions about bill wiese
Post by: Gina on June 19, 2012, 06:05:52 PM
I see. 

Most of us here have read the things that Bill Wiese says.  We're just like, Zzzzzzzzz ... whateverrrr.  ha, ha

We're so over his lies. 

But you're struggling with his lies and that's almost as startling to me as the bold-faced lies he sells. 

Oops, I mean tells. 

I really feel so sorry for you and anyone who believes that junk, honey.   

I have a friend in her late 50's who believes what he says, too.  And I'm sure I know why.   She absolutely hates her enemies and tells me any time she hears of some horrible crime that someone's committed how she looks forward with delight to the day when they're tortured in hell in flames.  But to look at her and talk to her otherwise, you'd think she was the sweetest, gentlest woman in the whole wide world.  Yep.  And she's not evil herself.  I know she would never torture anyone like that, because she couldn't stomach it, but it's alright with her if God does it.

SICK!

But you don't hate your enemies like that.  I can tell.  You don't look forward to the day when they're tormented.   

Well, I'm just gonna pray for you, sweetie. 

Ciao for now.
Title: Re: questions about bill wiese
Post by: Dave in Tenn on June 19, 2012, 07:09:08 PM
In the grand scheme of things, Bill Weisse wrote his book so Ray Smith could write his rebuttal.  That's what I think, anyway.

The 'wise' in Christendom could (and some did) criticize the book without touching the underlying message.  That's not what Ray did.  In the course of exposing those who contradict, he preached sound doctrine.  What the others did was mostly criticize the book for making their beloved 'Hell' seem so foolish. 

Bill's book was a best-seller, despite it's flaws.  It sold a boat-load.  MANY are called, few are chosen.  It was as perfect a spring-board and back-drop for the Gospel as the letters to Hagee and Kennedy, though both of those men are a bit 'smarter' than Bill.  Could be Bill will have an easier time of it repenting.       
Title: Re: questions about bill wiese
Post by: Gina on June 19, 2012, 07:56:13 PM
In the grand scheme of things, Bill Weisse wrote his book so Ray Smith could write his rebuttal.  That's what I think, anyway.

The 'wise' in Christendom could (and some did) criticize the book without touching the underlying message.  That's not what Ray did.  In the course of exposing those who contradict, he preached sound doctrine.  What the others did was mostly criticize the book for making their beloved 'Hell' seem so foolish. 

Bill's book was a best-seller, despite it's flaws.  It sold a boat-load.  MANY are called, few are chosen.  It was as perfect a spring-board and back-drop for the Gospel as the letters to Hagee and Kennedy, though both of those men are a bit 'smarter' than Bill.  Could be Bill will have an easier time of it repenting.


That was beautifully stated.  They never touched the underlying message because Bill's message is basically the same as their message.  To them, Jesus wouldn't be the Christ should He actually manage to save the world.  They're full of ... well, nonsense.

That Bill may having an easier time of repenting may be true. 
But this is the verse that comes to my mind:

Matt. 23:15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child [fit for destruction] than yourselves.

That's the kind of offspring they produced and we will know them by their fruit.  Doesn't look at all like the fruit of the Spirit, does it, Wigglytug?  Sure doesn't.
Title: Re: questions about bill wiese
Post by: wigglytug on June 20, 2012, 01:58:28 AM
thanks you guys its just that i found this whole mess of this stuff by accident and its enough to drive people insane! At anyrate i think most of those stuff are probably exaggerations anyways
Title: Re: questions about bill wiese
Post by: Gina on June 20, 2012, 03:07:38 AM
You're welcome, hon.  I'm glad you're here Wiggly because I just learned something new myself:


(I know it's hard to believe but Bill Wiese is basically telling you and everyone who will stop to listen that the penalty for sin is eternal LIFE in the flames.  That's not what the bible says!  The bibles says that the penalty for sin is DEATH.  It never says the penalty for sin is Eternal LIFE.  Look up the scriptures for yourself and see we're not lying to you.) 

Ray replies to an email re IF HELL ISN'T REAL. 

Quote


Okay, Cheryl, I will try to answer your question which was: QUESTION IF HELL ISN'T REAL THEN WHY DID GOD SEND HIS SON TO SAVE US FROM DEATH AND OUR SINS?

First, your question is incoherent.  That is, it doesn't make sense, and it contradicts itself.  What if we turn your question around and ask:  "If hell IS real, then why did God send His Son to save us from death and our sins?"  You see, whether there is or is not a hell has absolutely NOTHING to do with why Jesus died for our sins.  Jesus Christ "died for our sins," we are told in Scripture.

We are NOWHERE told that Jesus died for our sins to SAVE US FROM HELL.  Where is there such a Scripture? There is none.  When will we stop parroting pagan Christian doctrines and start believing the Bible?  The world of Christendom would have us believe that "The wages of sin is LIFE in an eternal HELL OF FIRE."

Where do the Scriptures teach such nonsense?  Now then, will you believe the Scriptures?  If I show you what the Scriptures really say about the wages of sin, will you believe it?

Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin IS DEATH ; but the gift of God is  ETERNAL LIFE  through Jesus Christ our Lord.  There it is.  What is the "WAGES" of sin?  There is no "gift" for sin, there is only "WAGES" for sin.  So what IS the "wages" of sin, is it "eternal LIFE?"  or "DEATH?"  Well we just read it, the "wages of sin is DEATH"--not eternal LIFE  in hell.  Where does one get "eternal LIFE?"  Why it is "THE GIFT OF God...through Jesus Christ our Lord."

There it is, but will you believe it?  Yes, Christ died for our sins, but not to save us from eternal "LIFE" (in some Egyptian pagan terrorist hellhole of eternal pain and suffering in fire). "Eternal LIFE" is a gift, not a punishment for sin.

So there is one great and Biblical answer to your question. There are many many more, but I don't have to time to go through them, and if one will not believe one absolute Biblical proof that there is no eternal hell of torture, then that person will not believe a dozen Biblical proofs. Study my paper. There are dozens and dozens of Scriptural answers as to why there is no such thing as a eternal torture chamber for most of the human race of God's children. May God grant to you the wisdom to see these simple and profound truths of the Bible.

God be with you,

Ray

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,13793.msg121620.html#new (http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,13793.msg121620.html#new)


Read that at your leisure.  There's no hurry--just take all the time you need.  And in the meantime, remember, Jesus is the Prince of PEACE.  Do you feel peaceful after reading what Bill says?

Talk later.

Title: Re: questions about bill wiese
Post by: cheekie3 on January 23, 2014, 01:43:37 PM
Gina -

What Ray sent you is absolutely wonderful.

George.