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=> General Discussions => Topic started by: leeney on May 01, 2006, 11:50:26 AM
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Now that I'm on the right track concerning holidays, let me ask you about wars/government.
Jesus said to give to Caesar what is Caesar's. I always interpreted this to mean that you were to obey your authority (unless that authority contradicted God in some way). Is this correct?
What about voting? Is this something we should do or something we stay away from? Some people say voting is a civil duty, others say it shows you are giving your allegiance to your country rather than to God. In my mind it was just choosing your leaders. I mean, any group with 2 or more people, no matter what kind of a group it is, needs a leader/director, otherwise there's a good chance of chaos and nothing gets done. So in voting we are merely choosing our director; I never saw it as showing allegiance to anything.
And wars; The Commandment says thou shalt not murder. I always interpreted that to be one on one---you don't go taking revenge for anything or trying to benefit in some way, by killing someone. But what about country to country? Should we have just let Hitler run his course? And Sadam when he invaded Kuwait? I'm sure the Iraqi War has many different opinions and emotions covering it, But when an innocent set of people are being abused, how can we not help? Aren't there some things that must be defended? And yes, many times there may be other ways to handle the problem than with war, but again, sometimes not.
Thoughts? Where does God stand with these things? By the way, even after Moses came from the mountain with the 10 Commandments, wars were still fought afterward. Does this tie in with my theory or am I way off base?
leeney
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Let's say you and a neighbor are fighting. Mean and cruel words are spoken and things escalate to the point on of you threatens the other with a gun. Neighbors are well aware of the fight, and start taking sides. Soon there is gunfire and the whole neighborhood is shooting and killing each other.
War is like this to me. A few government men decide to fight with their neighbors they are having a disagreement with. Most wars are terribly expensive in money, human lives, misery and pain. When a nation calls for war, many companies make a lot of money from the production of tanks, uniforms, guns, food rations, and other commodities necessary for war.
The more I think about Jesus telling us to love our enemies and turn the other cheek, the more I just can't support war. At least I can't support it for believers. I don't really know if I could just let someone walk into my home and not fight back, though. It's a question I have been plagued with and am still trying to sort out.
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Mat 24:6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all [these things] must come to pass, but the end is not yet
Luk 21:9 But when ye shall hear of wars and commotions, be not terrified: for these things must first come to pass; but the end [is] not by and by.
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Regarding fighting back if someone were to come into my home and threaten me... I'd have to consider how Jesus did not fight back when he was placed under arrest.. He did not fight back as they killed him either..
Should we follow his example here in our ownl lives??
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Im sorry, but if we are being honest here. If someone were to break into my home I would not let that person plunder my family and home. I would have to lay down my life for my family or that persons life. What greater love have a man than to lay down his life. Words are easy to say. But if something actually did happen could someone actually watch thier family are friends get killed. Im not saying that I would kill that person but I would use everything in my power to stop them. I hope these words dont offend anyone, but im just being honest here.
What if there was a burning building and there was a child in it. You knew that the building was gonna collapse and kill you. But you went in to save this childs life and the building falls in and kills you. Wouldnt that be killing. For you killed yourself knowing the building was gonna collapse.
I just pray that I am never put in a situation where I would have to possibly harm someone to the extent of killing that person.
What if one of you were being beat to death, would you want someone to step in and stop that person doing that to you. You could say as long as you dont hurt that other person. But unless you are put in that situation you wouldnt know.
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Ray or Mike wrote something like that: They said that if a woman was being raped, to step in and save her but then to not go to the courthouse and demand that the guy get the death penalty. I agree with you Kevin.. I would want to protect my family. This is definately a tough decision to make if it came your way.
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Becky it really wouldnt be a tough decision for me. Without a doubt I would do everything in my power to protect my family and friends. I just pray Im never put in that situation. If I am wrong in this, then only God could change my mind.
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This is a very tought decision.
However Jesus was an EXAMPLE for all of us who are to pick up our crosses and follow Him.
What did Jesus do? what WOULD Jesus do is the question?
For me i look at it like this; Since God is in complete and total controle, whatever happens is because He has allowed it.
SO then what are we to do?
All i can know is what scripture tell us.
Jesus said those who live by the sword shall die by it.
Jesus never fought back.
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If someone tried to harm my family I wouldnt use a sword, I have a gun though :shock:
Jesus laid down his own life on his own. He did that that we may have life. If I choose to lay down my own life for my family so they may have life so be it.
Those that live by the sword shall die by it. Yes I live by the sword(the word of God) since I live by it I die(flesh) by it.
If someone tries to kill my family they shall reap what they sow.
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I've posted this before, but for those of you who havent seen this, here it goes.
ALL OF US would protect our families if possible, usually by any means necessary to get the job done. Now, if a person has Christ in them, Christ ALONE will keep you from doing what the beast, on it's thrown, will command be done.
The only thing we can do, as servants to our Father, is PRAY...PRAY...PRAY...that the Lord keep us from the evil that we could face. Without His Mercy, we would all do the worst of worst because we all are of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
Fact is, we can talk all day but our beastly instincts will always take control in the heat of the moment. We can either BEG the Lord that we do not face those evils, or we don't have to do anything. For me, Ill pray.
Think about how us humans operate. Training. Practice.
I'm a soldier. I go to boot camp, place myself in various situations, train my senses to operate on a level that is responsive instantly to any given stimuli.
I'm a warrior. I train in martial arts and weapons. I train my body daily in order to be reactive instantly in any situation I am physically put in. THINKING about the situation is not fast enough. I must ALREADY KNOW the situation to react, and to react I must not THINK. I must take the most effective, shortest, route from the superior position, and deliver the most effecient blow within any given space, time, and distance. Remember being told we must strive for the prize AS IF as a FIGHTER preparing for a fight????????(spiritual of course)
If your life is threatened, and you are of a sane mind, you will try to protect it by clawing, sratching, hitting, biting, kicking, etc., to save it. Anything to protect it. Add in family members and love, and well, you'll do a lot of things. That's your most BASIC REMEMBERED ANIMAL INSTINCT.
Christ, on the other hand, understood that every SINGLE breath he took was given from our Father. So, every situation is from our Father, and we are to "resist not evil".
Tell you what. I'll give you a small quiz, and it's easy. Ready?
Hold your breath and stop breathing. Go ahead, and take as long as you like. WILL YOURSELF to stop breathing and see if you can maintain your FREE WILL?
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In case you just woke up from passing out, I've let you know where I've continued typing at. You can not will yourself to stop your life...naturally that is. Why? The Lord's Design and Will.
Same with a man slapping me. ALL THE SAME.
Easy to type and say, but without Christ in Steve Crook, I will never be able to de-throne the beast and do what is proper when evil is in my presence. I'll just continue to pray.
God Bless
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Break into my house and all bets are off...either they or me is going to die, that will not be an opportunity for me to preach the gospel, it is an opportunity to see if they can do harm to me before I cave their skull in with my 33 ounce aluminum bat. Just being honest....
Longhorn
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Steve,
that was lovely and i couldn't agree more!
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I agree with your post Steve. Words well put. Truth in them all those words. ~Karen~
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steve, becky, longhorn, I have to go along with you all. I will do what I can to protect those I love. I agree we shouldn't wait till it happens. Pray now that you never are put in that situation, but walk it thru to play out your options. (I heard that from a pilot in training-go thru all scenarios in your mind). But I am talking now, safe and sound. I'd like to say that I would turn the other cheek-who knows what strenght the Lord would do right at that very moment that I needed it.
:lol: on another topic. What is May 4 Day of Prayer about. Is that some-thing the carnal Babylon is doing or is there any merit to it??
I was a little surprised to hear that we shouldn't vote. Take no interest then in leadership of our villages, towns, cities, states, country?? It is a bit like the Amish....we in the forum (our village) don't vote, don't put up decorations for holidays, don't celebrate birthdays, don't even actively evangelize. That doesn't seem like a good witness and certainly wouldn't make people want to live like us. Well, I have written long and not included any scripture. I would love some direction-otherwise I will have to go and reread Mike and Ray! :lol:
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I think it could be a matter of what our intentions are. If we are in some dreadful situation where ourselves or our family are in immediate danger, there may be a couple of different ways to handle it. If we become filled with rage and hate, and take action against the attacker for the sole purpose of taking vengeance and doing harm, that would certainly be considered a sin, I would think.
But if it were a reaction to do whatever was quickest to defend, even with tentativeness, without hatred, I don't know if that would be considered a sin.
Remember, as Mike and Ray always say, Jesus' words are spiritual. "Turn the other cheek" probably doesn't mean to literally turn the other cheek any more than "take the plank out of your eye" means to literally take the plank out of your eye, or any more than "clean the inside of the dish" means to literally clean the inside of the dish. It has more to do with what's in our heart - do we hate those who do us harm? Do we say hateful words and have hateful thoughts toward those who persecute us? Or do we pray for those who persecute us and do us harm?
As an example, if a man broke into your home and began physically assaulting your family, and you were to whack him on the head with a sledge hammer to subdue him, without malice or vengeance, but only in desperation to protect you family, and then turn him over to the authorities for proper prosecution and punishment. It could even be considered for the man's own good. I don't think any of us on this forum would want to take extreme vengeance or wish torment against a person like that. We'd probably even pray for that person - AFTER we did what we had to do for the good of all involved. But obviously someone like that is unstable and it would be for their own good to get whacked on the head and face corrective discipline.
Many times doctors break babies' arms or legs in desparation if the baby is somehow in danger of suffocating in the birth canal or being strangled by the cord. So, I don't think commiting a physical injury against someone could always be considered a sin in all cases.
May God chasten me if I'm wrong about this. It is a very difficult subject to ponder, and as many have accurately pointed out - we should always pray that God will never, ever lead us into this kind of temptation. But as it stands now, I know that there is just no way I could ever stand idly by and watch someone kidnap, torture, or kill a family member or friend - or anyone, for that matter.
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Thanks Joey.
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We are to love our enemies and not to return evil for evil under any condition whatsoever and instead to commit ourselves to Him who judges righteously. And I hope that is what I would do.
Even in the case of trying to save a loved one, we have the example of Peter who tried to save Christ and Jesus rebuked Him with "all who take up the sword will die by the sword."
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We are to love our enemies and not to return evil for evil under any condition whatsoever and instead to commit ourselves to Him who judges righteously. And I hope that is what I would do.
Even in the case of trying to save a loved one, we have the example of Peter who tried to save Christ and Jesus rebuked Him with "all who take up the sword will die by the sword."
I have two questions. If Jesus's words are spirtual why do we take these words literally? Why did Peter have carry a sword?
John N
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Actually, the account of Peter has deep spiritual meaning. Of course, the sword is the Word of God. Peter used the sword to harm someone - he used the sword to cut off the ear of his enemy, just like many twist and wrongfully use the very Words of God to "cut off the ears" of those who listen, so that they can't hear the Truth of the gospel. But of course, Jesus healed the man's ear, just as He will someday do for all who have had their "ears to hear" cut off by those who wield the Word of God to harm others and try to control them.
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We are to love our enemies and not to return evil for evil under any condition whatsoever and instead to commit ourselves to Him who judges righteously. And I hope that is what I would do.
Even in the case of trying to save a loved one, we have the example of Peter who tried to save Christ and Jesus rebuked Him with "all who take up the sword will die by the sword."
I have two questions. If Jesus's words are spirtual why do we take these words literally? Why did Peter have carry a sword?
I guess because Peter just tried to literally cut off a man's ear off and Jesus literally told him not too. I can certainly see the possibility of deeper spiritual meaning like Joey gave (above) but I also take Jesus words at face value. Why do we take words like "love your enemies" or "for God so loved the world..." at face value?
EDIT. After contemplating a little more, I don't take those words literally anyway. I take Jesus words to mean that all who return evil for evil will die by the Word of God.
Why would Peter carry a sword? Don't know for sure... utility or self defense.
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I actually want to follow up on the spiritual meaning in the account of Peter with the sword.
Jesus warned him that those who live by the sword will die by the sword. If we look at this in spiritual terms, it certainly fits right in with the parable of the minas in Luke:
Luke 19
22"His master replied, 'I will judge you by your own words, you wicked servant!
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Here something of interest. Don't know what it means but its interesting that the "blessing" Esau receives is that he will "live by the sword."
Genesis 27:38 And Esau said unto his father, Hast thou but one blessing, my father? bless me, [even] me also, O my father. And Esau lifted up his voice, and wept. 39 And Isaac his father answered and said unto him, Behold, thy dwelling shall be the fatness of the earth, and of the dew of heaven from above; 40 And by thy sword shalt thou live, and shalt serve thy brother; and it shall come to pass when thou shalt have the dominion, that thou shalt break his yoke from off thy neck.
In the verses that follow Esau was seeking to kill his brother out of jealousy.
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Another related passage.
Revelation 13:10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.
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Guys, think of this.
"An eye for an Eye would make the world blind."
- Ghandi
If we fight EVIL with EVIL, EVIL IS THE WINNER. We must fight EVIL with Good, remember our fight is not with the people of this world but with greater matters.
So in the sence of protecting a loved one, one must have faith in God, because the Lord is in COMPLETE AND TOTAL CONTROLE, He will have His will be, no matter your choice of action, so why not just let it go and trust Him fully?
I also take the example of Peter and Jesus to be a lesson for us all. I know there is Deep spiritual meaning to everything Jesus said, taught, breathed, uttered, showed, exemplified - However i believe that in the Instance of Peter and Jesus there was a LITERAL meaning to what Jesus as well as Spiritual.
Sacrifice your life for another, but do not harm the other person (The enemy) in trying to sacrifice your life for that loved one that is being attacked.
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Another related passage.
Revelation 13:10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.
Amen Brother, This is the difference between those who talk the talk, and those who WALK the TALK.
In the end i think if it came down to an issue like this i would most certainly pray for Guidance and right course of Action, and that the Lords will be done, no matter how painfull it might be.
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Guys, think of this.
If we fight EVIL with EVIL, EVIL IS THE WINNER. We must fight EVIL with Good, remember our fight is not with the people of this world but with greater matters.
So in the sence of protecting a loved one, one must have faith in God, because the Lord is in COMPLETE AND TOTAL CONTROLE, He will have His will be, no matter your choice of action, so why not just let it go and trust Him fully?
Also remember, however, that we should never used God's sovereignty as a license to do nothing. Paul beat his body and made it a slave, he ran the race to be the winner, to obtain the prize that he saught. He did acknowledge God's sovereignty and credited all of his works to God's grace, but did not use God's sovereignty as a reason for inaction.
Remember something else that Christ said - out of the hearts of men proceed wicked thoughts and curses. I have shown examples of how it could be possible to take physical action against someone without evil or malicious intent. If some scenario like this came to pass, what would be our motive for taking action? Hate, vengeance, rage? These would all be considered sinful reasons for taking action.
It is very, very easy to say what we would do in a given situation, but to actually do it when the situation arises is something that none of us could know for sure. I believe that only by some type of divine intervention right on the spot could I be stopped from physically defending my family from an attacker. If it would be a sin for me to do so, I would have to confess it and bear the consequence of it.
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We are to love our enemies and not to return evil for evil under any condition whatsoever and instead to commit ourselves to Him who judges righteously. And I hope that is what I would do.
Even in the case of trying to save a loved one, we have the example of Peter who tried to save Christ and Jesus rebuked Him with "all who take up the sword will die by the sword."
Christ rebuked peter because he was interfearing with the cross.
if an intruder was going to hurt a child, and you stoped him, you would be the intruder a favor!!!
Mat 18:6 But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and [that] he were drowned in the depth of the sea.
Mat 18:14 Even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish.
I pray with all i have NONE of you are ever put in that situation.
love
chuckt
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Joey you asked what our motive will be. My motive would be love. For I love my family and friends. I could not stand idle and watch a loved one get killed. If something happened so fast, I dont think I would be thinking hate, rage, or vengeance. I would be thinking protect my family.
Lets say someone came into your home and started hacking your family. You mean to tell me that someone is gonna just sit on the couch with a coke in their hand and watch it happen. Im sorry but thats just not thinking realistically. I know for me that I would do everything in my God given power to stop that person.
I pray to God that nothing like this will ever happen to me or anyone else reading this.[/quote]
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Wow, what powerful repsonses, and so many! thank you all for your input into this subject.
It seems these are directed to the one-on-one idea. What are your thoughts on country against country? Steve, you said you were a soldier? I have a nephew who just spent several months in Iraq as a marine. He is also a Christian, and since his tour, has become much more serious about his faith. He sees no contraditions with his faith and his 'job'. What are your beliefs about this, may I ask?
leeney
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Oop, sorry! Forgot to edit. I really can spell--honest!
leeney
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To use the reasoning that all is God's will so if an intruder entered my house to rob, kill, or pillage I should do nothing or turn the other cheek, is to also believe then that I should not go to a doctor since God must want me to be ill, sick or cancer, and I shouldn't try to intervene. If I am walking a trail in the mtns and a bear comes at me should I just accept it or try to defend myself? We are potter's clay, not robots. God has given us reasoning capabilities with some common sense. Since we always don't know what God's will is at the exact moment, then all our experiences, knowledge, love, maturity etc etc come into play. To defend yourself or your family is not the unforgivable sin. My husband's role is a protector and to not take care of your family first you are worse than a reprobate( infidel Or something like that-I know its a verse in the Bible :oops: ) How did the topic switch from war and government to this, or am I on the wrong thread? Anyway, my 2 cents.
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To use the reasoning that all is God's will so if an intruder entered my house to rob, kill, or pillage I should do nothing or turn the other cheek, is to also believe then that I should not go to a doctor since God must want me to be ill, sick or cancer, and I shouldn't try to intervene. If I am walking a trail in the mtns and a bear comes at me should I just accept it or try to defend myself? We are potter's clay, not robots. God has given us reasoning capabilities with some common sense. Since we always don't know what God's will is at the exact moment, then all our experiences, knowledge, love, maturity etc etc come into play. To defend yourself or your family is not the unforgivable sin. My husband's role is a protector and to not take care of your family first you are worse than a reprobate( infidel Or something like that-I know its a verse in the Bible :oops: ) How did the topic switch from war and government to this, or am I on the wrong thread? Anyway, my 2 cents.
Gandhi argument to this is very compelling, but for me it is very hard to accept. It goes something like this:(I can't find the quote)
If you are godly, and your family is also godly, then if you and your family die you will be with God. If the Ungodly die were will they be? If by you and your family example the ungodly may be lead to God, then your death may serve God purpose.
I am not saying I would let someone kill me and my family, but I do see and understand Gandhi's logic here.
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Joey you asked what our motive will be. My motive would be love. For I love my family and friends. I could not stand idle and watch a loved one get killed. If something happened so fast, I dont think I would be thinking hate, rage, or vengeance. I would be thinking protect my family.
Lets say someone came into your home and started hacking your family. You mean to tell me that someone is gonna just sit on the couch with a coke in their hand and watch it happen. Im sorry but thats just not thinking realistically. I know for me that I would do everything in my God given power to stop that person.
I pray to God that nothing like this will ever happen to me or anyone else reading this.
I have meditated on this for most of the day and have come to the strong conclusion that we would be putting ourselves under the letter of the law if we stood by and watched our family getting harmed without taking action - simply because we were trying to obey the commands of Christ. We are under a new law - the law of the spirit. Who in their right mind would not feel their spirit crying out to intervene if they were seeing their daughter getting molested or abducted, or their mother being assaulted? To stand by and do nothing would be utterly insane, and I believe it would be a sin. As pointed out by a previous poster, men are instructed to take care of their family.
Looking at some people's views of God's sovereignty, they seem to think there is no reason to do anything at all. But then, why would Ray have even started his site to expose those who contradict? Why do Mike and Ray have bible conferences? Why pray? Why does anybody do anything?
Why not take the reverse view? Intervene against someone who is brutalizing your family and if it's God's sovereign will for them to be brutalized, He will find a way to stop you from intervening. But the idea of just sitting back and letting anything happen, assuming it's God's will, is just crazy.
The point of Christ saying to turn the other cheek and to love our enemies is so that we have a forgiving Christ like spirit toward all people in our daily walk. It is instruction on how to live our lives as a whole, not for a specific moment in time in which our loved ones could be in extreme danger.
Likewise with Him not retaliating when He was being tortured before the crucifiction, He refrained from returning evil for evil as an example of how we are to live our lives (not to mention the fact He understood full well what had to happen to fulfill the scriptures). He allowed His flesh to be destroyed (literally) as an example of how our flesh needs to be destroyed daily over the course of a lifetime. I really don't believe that we are expected to just let someone beat us to death.
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Well said Joey.
Mt26:53-Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels?
Why did Jesus pose this question?
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Who in their right mind would not feel their spirit crying out to intervene if they were seeing their daughter getting molested or abducted, or their mother being assaulted.
Do you think Christ can not see when these things occur? And yet He does not generally intervene to put an end to it. Do you remember when Stephen was being stoned? He looked up to Christ before He died. Christ was watching.
Nobody is saying not to do anything about anything. What we are to do is immitate Christ who did not return evil for evil. When he was reviled he reviled not. When he suffered He did not even threat in return. Instead He commited Himself to God who judges righteously.
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Who in their right mind would not feel their spirit crying out to intervene if they were seeing their daughter getting molested or abducted, or their mother being assaulted.
Do you think Christ can not see when these things occur? And yet He does not generally intervene to put an end to it. Do you remember when Stephen was being stoned? He looked up to Christ before He died. Christ was watching.
Nobody is saying not to do anything about anything. What we are to do is immitate Christ who did not return evil for evil. When he was reviled he reviled not. When he suffered He did not even threat in return. Instead He commited Himself to God who judges righteously.
I have shown again and again how we can intervene without actually returning evil for evil. If you believe the right thing to do would be to stand and watch your family get harmed, and believe you would be able to refrain from intervening in that situation, perhaps you're just further along than the rest of us.
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I think that he does intervene. If someone were breaking in my house he would intervene by using me to stop that person from causing harm.
Why did Jesus pose that question in Mt26:53? What is more evil? To stop a person from killing 10 people or just to let them go ahead and kill them.
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Another thing I would like to add - if we would try to justify ourselves by obeying what is written on the pages of our bibles, without a proper understanding of the intent behind the words, we would be making the same mistake as the pharisees, who had a legalistic view of the sabbath:
Mark 2
24The Pharisees said to him, "Look, why are they doing what is unlawful on the Sabbath?"
25He answered, "Have you never read what David did when he and his companions were hungry and in need? 26In the days of Abiathar the high priest, he entered the house of God and ate the consecrated bread, which is lawful only for priests to eat. And he also gave some to his companions."
27Then he said to them, "The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath. 28So the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath."
The pharisees obeyed the commandment just because it's what the letter commanded. Jesus showed that there was a reason behind the letter. Just because the teachings of the NT are not "engraved in stone" does not mean that we can't get overly legalistic with them.
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I have shown again and again how we can intervene without actually returning evil for evil. If you believe the right thing to do would be to stand and watch your family get harmed, and believe you would be able to refrain from intervening in that situation, perhaps you're just further along than the rest of us.
I didn't see those posts so I'll go back and look. There is nothing wrong with intervening. I was specifically referring to intervening with evil (violence or threat of violence).
I make no claim as to what I would actually be able to do under those circumstances. Peter swore up and down he would not deny Christ but he still did. I am only making the case as to what we should and should not do.
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I think that he does intervene. If someone were breaking in my house he would intervene by using me to stop that person from causing harm.
Why did Jesus pose that question in Mt26:53? What is more evil? To stop a person from killing 10 people or just to let them go ahead and kill them.
He did not intervene in the case of Stephen. I was answering the question "who in their right mind would not want to intervene..."
In Matt 26:53 Jesus was telling Peter that He did not need Peter's sword to defend Him. I'm saying that a gun etc. is not needed either.
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All I know is, the intruder would have to kill me first before I'd allow him,her,or them to harm my family or loved one. if that's a sin then so be it.
love is a powerful thing.
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I have shown again and again how we can intervene without actually returning evil for evil. If you believe the right thing to do would be to stand and watch your family get harmed, and believe you would be able to refrain from intervening in that situation, perhaps you're just further along than the rest of us.
I didn't see those posts so I'll go back and look. There is nothing wrong with intervening. I was specifically referring to intervening with evil (violence or threat of violence).
I make no claim as to what I would actually be able to do under those circumstances. Peter swore up and down he would not deny Christ but he still did. I am only making the case as to what we should and should not do.
Here is something to consider. There are two verses in which we are instructed to not repay evil for evil. Those verses are Romans 12:17 and 1 Peter 3:9. The word rendered "repay" is the Greek word "ajpodivdwmi" and here are the definitions:
to deliver, to give away for one's own profit what is one's own, to sell
to pay off, discharge what is due
a debt, wages, tribute, taxes, produce due
things promised under oath
conjugal duty
to render account
to give back, restore
to requite, recompense in a good or a bad sense
Here we can see that this word actually means to render account or take back what is due. This is more along the lines of executing judgment. So, Rom 12:17 and 1 Peter 3:9 could almost be paraphrased as "do not carry out vengeance for evil that is done to you." This is miles away from taking some type of necessary physical action of subduing someone who is endangering the safety of a victim.
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I see what you're saying Joey but I think it goes beyond not taking vengance. We do not wage war with the same weapons they do. I hope I'm not being a legalist as the pharisees were with the Sabbath.
I will leave this thread with one last thought: If you believe Christ would do it then do it. If you believe Christ would not do it then do not do it.
He is our example and we are called to be as He was.
1 Peter 2:21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps: 2 Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth: 23 Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously.
Blessings
Bob