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=> General Discussions => Topic started by: Dennis Vogel on April 21, 2012, 04:09:43 PM
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New: Was it better for Judas had he not been born?
http://bible-truths.com/JudasNotBorn.htm (http://bible-truths.com/JudasNotBorn.htm)
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Thanks for the heads up Dennis and great article by Ray.
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Great article! Thank you!
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Inspiring article. Thanks a lot.
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Excellent! Thank you Ray!
This is worded oddly, feels like a word is missing. I'll insert with a bracket. Might want to ask Ray about this one, not totally sure on how He wanted it worded.
"Since Judas did not submit to God, Satan the Devil took him. When Satan departed, Judas [WAS/BECAME..] inspired to do the right thing."
A typo; "crime than that of Judas giving Jesus a KISS ON THE CHECK?! " Should read: Cheek.
Just trying to help out, sorry if this was already pointed out!
Love =]
Alex
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When I read the section:
"I don't know what judgments might yet be in store for Judas, but one thing is for sure, his dying deeds and thoughts were that of sorrow and repentance for the evil he had done to his LORD. Perhaps his judgments will be less than what might be inflicted upon those who joyfully teach that Judas is going to hell for all eternity."
I wondered what judgments will be on those who commit suicide. I just realized that in the old church system I was taught that if someone took their own life they would be forever lost.
Ray is definitely not teaching that.
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What a wonderful article. This was one of the 'passages' along with the teaching that flowed out of it that perverted my view of God by believing at a young age. How great is it to have a 'sounder' mind'?
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A great way to start the day! Thanks, Dennis!
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Thanks Ray and Dennis for the enlightenment.
I had difficulty with the detail of the first explanation section, but continued on to the end and found that the real understanding all came together. It all seems so logical and simple when a person has had a few thousand hours of preparation. ;) 8)
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Hi
Good article I enjoyed it a lot.I have never ever heard an othodox christian state that Judas was deeply penitent after his betrayal of Christ.
Dave
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Good stuff as always from Ray!
Yesterday my wife and I were talking about the beliefs of various denominations, and she commented on how the Bible is such a misunderstood book. I told her it was certainly no accident, that God meant it to be that way. She asked me why God hides the truth, so we talked about Matthew 13 and "eyes that see but do not see." I realized how amazing it is that God can keep hidden things that are so plain--things like "God will have all men be saved" (1 Tim. 2:4) and "God works all things after the counsel of his will" (Eph. 1:11). These truths are right there in front of us, yet most Christians can't see it--and most of us couldn't see it either for most of our lives.
This Judas passage is another example of that...One little misunderstood word--"him"--reinforces the idea of eternal hell for billions of people throughout the centuries, keeping them from the Truth. Just one more example of God working all things after the counsel of his will. 8)
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Extol---What took me painfully long to learn was that God KNOWS the attitudes that people have toward what HE has revealed to them. Though many things are OBVIOUS to us --the same thing is still hidden from their eyes.. They hold tenaciously to what they feel comfortable in knowing and "throwing a monkey wrench" into their mix of beliefs is very upsetting to them. Therefore, when unsure, really dig the heels in and even use the heretic word as a last recourse!
UNTIL God opens the eyes--no amount of reasoning or Bible verses will do any good.
It takes prayer and patience--the same kind that people used to "bring us along".
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Thanks Dennis and all
It's so amazing learning the truth bit by bit; such wisdom revealed cannot be measured in human terms. It takes a man like Ray to unveil such spiritual truths since he is filled with a measure of God's spirit. This particular article is an eye opener concerning the baylonian teachings of hell torment. I really thank God for drawing me nearer to the B-T.
God bless all
Mbo
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Good read. Glad to see Ray able to continue His work. :)
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when i found out the truth that souls would not be going to a place of never ending torment i shouted FATHER u are worthy to be praised. KING OF kings and LORD OF lords :) :) :)
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amen fireman, amen!!!
claudia
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Fireman--the TRUTH put out "one kind of FIRE--man"! (the hell/torment kind) just a "play on words" that I am so prone to!
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Pass it on to Ray please Dennis, we appreciate all his great work during these difficult/painfull times.
**Love you Ray !! :)
John
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glad to read the new paper. amazing as usual.
I find it so odd about satan entering in Judas, making him betray Jesus, then when Satan leaves him, Judas takes FULL responsibilty for the deed. Even when in Isaiah it says God was pleased to bruise Jesus. I don't know how Judas could be blamed then. Great paper but i think it gave me more to question. ha..leave it to Ray to get me to thinking...
I also have never thought of Judas in relation to the Laying down your life for a friend scripture.
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Hi Gena,
I find it so odd about satan entering in Judas, making him betray Jesus, then when Satan leaves him, Judas takes FULL responsibilty for the deed. Even when in Isaiah it says God was pleased to bruise Jesus. I don't know how Judas could be blamed then.
You have to consider who Judas was before that night when Satan entered him, this was not all Satan's doing. Judas was a thief, he was this type of person and surely had been before this.
John 12:3 Then Mary took a pound of very costly oil of spikenard, anointed the feet of Jesus, and wiped His feet with her hair. And the house was filled with the fragrance of the oil.
v. 4 But one of His disciples, Judas Iscariot, Simon's son, who would betray Him, said,
v. 5 "Why was this fragrant oil not sold for three hundred denarii and given to the poor?"
v. 6 This he said, not that he cared for the poor, but because he was a thief, and had the money box; and he used to take what was put in it.
Now you know that Jesus knew this about Judas and He had given him that position of holding their money as to bring out this covetousness and lust for money in Judas. Though Satan did not 'make' Judas do this, he was a thief, it was in his carnal nature and it was ultimately his downfall.
Luke 16:13 No servant can serve two masters, for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and money." (ESV)
This was a weakness in Judas and he had allowed his greed for money to overshadow all else, you can not serve two masters and he was still carnal and unconverted. Yes Satan used that to do his work and Judas was a willing participant of his cunning influence.
John 13:2 And supper being ended, the devil having already put it into the heart of Judas Iscariot, Simon's son, to betray Him,
I do not believe that Satan possessed Judas so that he did not know what he was doing. Judas had allowed this horrible notion to enter his mind/heart and take root, of course Satan had already been working with him on this most important mission Satan ever had. So as the critical time drew near yes Satan was there to influence/enter his mind to carry this deed to the bitter end. Yes Satan can be a strong influence, but only to the mind that is open to it.
James 4:7 Therefore submit to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you.
Eph 4:27 nor give place to the devil.
1Peter 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil walks about like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour.
v. 9 Resist him, steadfast in the faith, knowing that the same sufferings are experienced by your brotherhood in the world.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
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Judas wasn't the first person that Satan has entered and won't be the last:
1Peter 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil walks about like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour.
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Gena:
Those are great points to ponder. I thought the same things myself. This is all I can come up with so far:
1. Someone had to do it!
2. And Judas "volunteered" for the task to be that lying spirit. (2 Chron. 18:21)
3. Satan entered Judas much the same way God enters us and makes His abode with us. Satan's entrance into Judas made them so "emotionally intertwined" that they became "one."
4. And that's why Judas is to be blamed.
As for Judas laying his life down for his Friend. Okay -- do you remember how Jesus said to his disciples:
John 15:15 Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you
See? So it's not that Judas was ever Jesus' friend; however, Jesus was definitely Judas' friend. That, my friend, is how it was possible for Judas to lay his life down for his Friend.
I hope that helps a little. :)
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Judas wasn't the first person that Satan has entered and won't be the last:
This is the only time in the history of the world that we have an account of Satan actually entering into and possessing the mind of another human being.
"Then entered Satan into Judas surnamed Iscariot, being of the number of the twelve. And he went his way, and communed with the chief priests and captains, how he might betray him unto them" (Luke 22:3-4).
But to, why?
"While I was with them in the world, I kept them in Thy Name: those that You gave Me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled" (John 17:12).
I pray and hope that there will be no more any human being that Satan actually entering into and possessing the mind…
Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. Jam 4:7
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Judas wasn't the first person that Satan has entered and won't be the last:
This is the only time in the history of the world that we have an account of Satan actually entering into and possessing the mind of another human being.
"Then entered Satan into Judas surnamed Iscariot, being of the number of the twelve. And he went his way, and communed with the chief priests and captains, how he might betray him unto them" (Luke 22:3-4).
There are other times in the scriptures. What happened with Judas betraying Christ and Eve eating the forbidden fruit in the Garden is not much different. Whether we see the words 'Satan entering into' or simply speaking as a serpent, the same influence is being done on the carnal mind. Just something to think about.
Thanks,
Marques
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Judas wasn't the first person that Satan has entered and won't be the last:
This is the only time in the history of the world that we have an account of Satan actually entering into and possessing the mind of another human being.
"Then entered Satan into Judas surnamed Iscariot, being of the number of the twelve. And he went his way, and communed with the chief priests and captains, how he might betray him unto them" (Luke 22:3-4).
There are other times in the scriptures. What happened with Judas betraying Christ and Eve eating the forbidden fruit in the Garden is not much different. Whether we see the words 'Satan entering into' or simply speaking as a serpent, the same influence is being done on the carnal mind. Just something to think about.
Thanks,
Marques
I agree with Marques. Here are just a few examples:
John 8:44 You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.
Matthew 13:38 The field is the world, and the good seed stands for the sons of the kingdom. The weeds are the sons of the evil one,
John 6:70 Then Jesus replied, "Have I not chosen you, the Twelve? Yet one of you is a devil!" (Speaking of Judas - a son of the evil one?)
Acts 13:10 "You are a child of the devil and an enemy of everything that is right! You are full of all kinds of deceit and trickery. Will you never stop perverting the right ways of the Lord?
1 John 3:8 He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil's work.1 John 3:10 This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not a child of God; nor is anyone who does not love his brother.
I'm also thinking of those that murdered Job's servants:
Job 1:13 One day when Job’s sons and daughters were feasting and drinking wine at the oldest brother’s house, 14a messenger came to Job and said, “The oxen were plowing and the donkeys were grazing nearby, 15and the Sabeans attacked and carried them off. They put the servants to the sword, and I am the only one who has escaped to tell you!” (Sabeans: sons of the evil one -- possessed by Satan -- at "one" with Satan, having done the deed of Satan.)
Matthew 16:23 Jesus turned and said to Peter, "Get behind me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to me; you do not have in mind the things of God, but the things of men."
And last but not least:
Rev 12:9 The great dragon was hurled down--that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.
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Judas wasn't the first person that Satan has entered and won't be the last:
This is the only time in the history of the world that we have an account of Satan actually entering into and possessing the mind of another human being.
"Then entered Satan into Judas surnamed Iscariot, being of the number of the twelve. And he went his way, and communed with the chief priests and captains, how he might betray him unto them" (Luke 22:3-4).
There are other times in the scriptures. What happened with Judas betraying Christ and Eve eating the forbidden fruit in the Garden is not much different. Whether we see the words 'Satan entering into' or simply speaking as a serpent, the same influence is being done on the carnal mind. Just something to think about.
Thanks,
Marques
i do agree in; Whether we see the words 'Satan entering into' or simply speaking as a serpent, the same influence is being done on the carnal mind
but what i understand in Ray's point of view is that, Satan entering into, it is literal that Satan possessed Judas mind...
We are all influence by Satan and his angels to do against the will of God and still continues up to this date but, Satan possessing and entering into the mind of Judas is a Literal event and it will be the last.
Why? Because, that the scripture might be fulfilled"
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Santgem: How are you defining the word "literal"?
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Good article! Thank you!
Blessings,
Iris
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Santgem: How are you defining the word "literal"?
Sister,
my definition of literal in my post is "a literal account of the incident"......meaning it is actually happened. happened in such a way that, say,
Satan entered and controlled the mind of Judas.