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=> General Discussions => Topic started by: mrsnacks on April 08, 2007, 04:41:46 PM
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I have learned here that one can study and study and take courses ( like I did) and not even arrive at the many truths I have learned at this site and many others.
How does God enlighten us ? How does He give us understanding ? I know it comes from Him but is there something that we must do ? It then sounds like works if I have to do something to understand truths.
It is almost like everything I have learned from the theologian giants of Christendom has been wrong. And they sound so profound and intellectual. Yet these truths I have learned sound so simple. How can a person read one verse and come up with a completely different perspective ? How does one know if they are right about this or that ? Ray does sound confident and he uses the word "crock " a lot when he hears something he doesn't agree to. But how does he really know or any of us know. I have been wrong so many times and have changed positions back and forth.
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Hello mrsnacks
The Scripture that came to mind as I read your post was the following:
Eph 4 : 14 So then, we may no longer be children, tossed like shops to and fro between chance gusts of teaching and wavering with every changing wind of doctrine, the prey of the cunning and cleverness of unscrupulous men, gamblers engaged in every shifting form of trickery in inventing errors to mislead.
The fruit of the teachings from Ray that I have received have been healing separation and liberation, setting me free from the seductive hold of Mystery Babylon and the Heresy of the Harlot.
John 8 : 36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, you shall be free indeed.
I have read 95 % of all of the Bible Truth site and have pondered and meditated on the teachings. I have studied and highlighted and considered and weighed up the conclusions. This has all been done because Christ has led me to do this and has given me the mental capacity, the available time and the necessary resources to do so. It is ALL from HIM.
Christ has crystallised the teachings into my heart and soul. HE did it! HE opened my mind. HE has given all good gifts. What I have received is what HE has considered in HIS infinite Wisdom, appropriate for HIS Plan for my life HE has purchased. I can do NOTHING of any good or merit as you observe so wisely and correctly. No one can deserve to not be tossed to and fro by every changing wind of doctrine.
As a tip that might help you however.....I have come to a place in my life where I no longer open the windows of my mind to let any hail storm or wind come in anymore. I do not give my ear or eyes to the world or the doctrines of the Harlot any more. But then again....I gave more than 40 years of my life looking and listening to false teaching and blinding heresy. Jesus restored my eyes and healed my ears. HE alone does what it takes and until He does, we have to ride the storm and experience the tossing growing pains that may lead us into solitary seclusion with Christ. He shuts out distraction. He closes the door to Heresy and He opens the door to truth and understanding and you can know it is HIM through the peace and joy that follow.
This is my experience talking here and I do not expect anyone to agree or believe what I write. It is true for me though and I hope in some way it can help or encourage.....
Peace to you
Arcturus :)
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Mr Snacks,
What I am going to say will no doubt cause some discussion, but I believe from the very center of my being, which is God and his Son, that the truth was always in me and always available to me.
Being that I was exposed to many different churchs/beliefs as a child, I was turned off of all that was taught. The math just never equated. One God and a hundred or more doctrines. Simply put, if 99 were wrong, why not 100? Or, put another way, if all were only partly correct then they could not be correct at all. Truth is truth, not part truths.
Thankfully, I was caused to believe that there was nothing remotely as complicated in "knowing" and "serving" God as I was led to believe in church. Ray, has been such a blessing, not because he is causing me to unlearn years of indoctrination; but rather that he is saying what I knew to be true. :)
Of course I cannot say I could voice everything, for I never once considered that Jehovah of the OT and Jesus Christ of the NT were one and the same, BUT the moment I heard it from Ray, I knew it to be true. I knew all of the contentious Scriptures that seemed to contradict, so I guess you could say I knew the truth when I heard it. (How could I know if it were not already there)
This is what I am trying to say, the truth is in us, it is just waiting to be released. This is why truth can be found anywhere at anytime. No one person has the sole handle on truth.
Man seeks to make God available to only a few. Man also seeks to confine God to the four walls of a church or a temple; likewise to the constraints of a doctrine or belief. Man in his blindness and foolishness then "gives" God to whom they may, and if someone with an earnest question dare to ask, they are often looked upon with disdain. (Been there, recieved that)
I am reposting a section that I wrote in another thread to a similar question of yours.
John 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
Ah, but many will ask: "How can I ever know God? I am poor, I cannot afford books or tuition ."
But as you said, knowing and learning of God and his Divinity is not difficult, and no books or tuition is required.
Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, [even] his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Rom 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified [him] not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
Rom 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
DO you see the significance in this Scripture. All that needs to known about God, including his eternal Godhead, can be learned from creation from the things HE made, and man is without excuse. But they learned of God, but rejected God; preferring to instead to fall victims to their own imaginations and became fools.
As a side note to this:
Pro 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
This is in itself, another very simple truth. If one cannot trust God based all that one has learned from creation, then surely one has become a fool.
Mr Snacks, the TRUTH is available to all. Some seek and never find, while other find and never seek.
I believe that the Truth is something that cannot be found, intead one must be "open" to it. Being "open" does not mean automatically believing everything heard or read.
I would ask you and any other that cares to answer. What is a single truth that is more important to you than the knowledge of God that is to be found in creation. To the point of no man having an excuse for not getting it. Why then did God choose not to make this truth known?
Second guessing God is not a great idea. Can the God which made all things; a flower it's beauty, a sunrise it spectacularness, a sunset its glory; a song bird its song, etc. even be found in any church and the doctrines within?
Just my thoughts, comments welcome.
Your brother in Christ,
Darren
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Yellowstone,
I too have felt like you, "that the truth was always in me and always available to me". Whenever I learn something new it's like it was always there it just need something or someone to bring it forword. While reading your post this verse came to mind.
Hebrews 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their minds, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people.
I'm not sure if that's what this verse is talking about but, it sure seems to fit. If I am not understanding this right please, someone set me straight.
ever learning in Christ,
Suzie
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Darren,
You state: "I believe from the very center of my being, which is God and his Son, that the truth was always in me and always available to me."
What is you scriptural witness for this statement? I read and reread your post to make sure I was not missing it...
How can the truth be already "in" us... if the knowledge of the truth is something we have to "come to"?
1 Timothy 2:3-5
This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,
2 Timothy 2:24-26
The Lord's bond-servant must not be quarrelsome, but be kind to all, able to teach, patient when wronged, with gentleness correcting those who are in opposition, if perhaps God may grant them repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth, and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil, having been held captive by him to do his will.
2 Timothy 3:5-7
For among them are those who enter into households and captivate weak women weighed down with sins, led on by various impulses, always learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
Furthermore, is not the truth simply the word of God?
John 17:16-19
"They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. Sanctify them in the truth; Your word is truth. As You sent Me into the world, I also have sent them into the world. For their sakes I sanctify Myself, that they themselves also may be sanctified in truth."
And if the truth is already "in" us, why then do we have to be santified "in" truth?
Ephesians 4:20-24
But you did not learn Christ in this way, if indeed you have heard Him and have been taught in Him, just as truth is in Jesus, that, in reference to your former manner of life, you lay aside the old self, which is being corrupted in accordance with the lusts of deceit, and that you be renewed in the spirit of your mind, and put on the new self, which in the likeness of God has been created in righteousness and holiness of the truth.
And do we not have to lay aside our former self in order to put on the new self which is created in righteousness and holiness of the truth?
And what about those who say that they have no sin? Do they have the truth already in them?
1 John 1:7-9
But if we walk in the Light as He Himself is in the Light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin. If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
I'm sorry Darren, I do not agree with you statement. I believe the scriptures clearly tell us that the truth is something that we come to only by the grace of God who has saw fit to reveal it to us in His perfect timing... few in this age, many in the age to come... so that one day He will be ALL in ALL... but not until that time will the truth be in all of us.
God's Peace.
Josh
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Great post Josh!
I will add some more verses that should show that not all are given the opportunity to know of or about the One True God and His glorious plan for humanity while in this age.
Deu 7:6 For thou art a holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.
Deu 7:7 The LORD did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people:
Mat 11:25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent and hast revealed them unto babes.
Mat 11:26 Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight.
Mat 11:27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.
Joh 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
Joh 15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.
1Pe 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should show forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvelous light:
I can certainly see God's Hand in His creation, the beauty and wonder of the earth and the heavens, but didn't the Egyptians, Phoenicians, Greeks, Romans, Mayans, etc. also marvel at these wonders, learning the mechanisms by observing nature? Did they not use the the stars to navigate, the sun and moon to mark their days building incredible structures some of which todays engineers would have serious problems duplicating? They had gods, but not the One True Living God.
It is still the case in these times, breakthroughs in DNA knowledge and the compexities of even single cell life all points to a creator, does the world see this? Does this present world still have it's own gods it's own idols?
We will be blind until God deems the scales drop from our eyes and not before.
His Peace and Wisdom to you,
Joe
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Re: good and evil
« Reply #14 on: Today at 10:14:22 AM » Quote Modify Remove
I posted this on another thread and thought this might help here too.
Maybe there's a difference between those that are called and those that are chosen. Many are called, including the whole world, right? Because, eventually, the whole world will be saved, albeit in a different age. Man, through the creation, can see the invisible things of God so that he is without excuse but like the scripture says,
"There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God." Rom. 3:11
"An evil man seeketh only rebellion..."Pro. 17:11
Yet there hundreds of scriptures that talk about seeking God and finding Him if we seek Him with our whole heart. What I'm saying is that God may only be drawing (dragging) those that He wants to draw in this present age now, and later will draw all men to Himself. It is all God's doing one way or another.
You're right Joe, the creation helps us see many beautiful things that God has created, but there is no truth in man at all. Until we're begotten of the Spirit, we're dead, and there is no truth in a dead man.
Dwight
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Josh,
I have already stepped on toes today and I wish to do so no more.
But please consider my words:
I believe from the very center of my being, which is God and his Son, that the truth was always in me and always available to me.
Always, being for as long as I remember. Can you really say that I am a liar? Did I say, that I was free of sin?
Darren
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Dwight, you wrote something brother that made me smile ;)
You're right Joe, the creation helps us see many beautiful things that God has created, but there is no truth in man at all. Until we're begotten of the Spirit, we're dead, and there is no truth in a dead man.
I guess I do not see the SPIRIT barometer that you see. Because as far as I knew, the relationship between God and anyone, is between God and the said. Are you so certain that there is no truth in any man?
Like I said, I don't see the barometer that measure SPIRIT content. :)
All is of God, my brother
Darren
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Hi Darren,
This is what I am trying to say, the truth is in us, it is just waiting to be released.
As I look at scripture it indicates that we 'come' to the truth, that it isn't already there.
1Tim 2:4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
John 16:13 When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.
John 15:26 And when the Comforter has come, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father, He shall testify of Me.
And this seems to say some will never come to the truth in this life.
2Tim 3:7 always learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
v. 8 Now as Jannes and Jambres resisted Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, disapproved concerning the faith;
These scripture all say we receive the truth from God :)
mercy, peace, and love
Kat
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My dear brothers and sisters,
If I am reading the following wrong, then I am sadly mistaken and seek forgiveness
Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, [even] his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
What does it mean, to be without excuse? I think it means that if you don't get it, then you are not excused.
Joe, you are so very right. Many did not get it at all; some got some of it and in "their wisdom" learned to navigate, measure time, etc.
Rom 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
But did everyone fail to see the things of God. Not according to the Scripture,
Psa 26:3 For thy loving kindness [is] before mine eyes: and I have walked in thy truth.
Psa 57:10 For thy mercy [is] great unto the heavens, and thy truth unto the clouds.
Psa 98:2 The LORD hath made known his salvation: his righteousness hath he openly shewed in the sight of the heathen.
Psa 98:3 He hath remembered his mercy and his truth toward the house of Israel: all the ends of the earth have seen the salvation of our God.
Psa 25:5 Lead me in thy truth, and teach me: for thou [art] the God of my salvation; on thee do I wait all the day.
Psa 40:11 Withhold not thou thy tender mercies from me, O LORD: let thy lovingkindness and thy truth continually preserve me.
I see the above Scriptures as David telling us that he could see the loving kindness of God in creation. He could see the truth, and walked in it. (Please note that I am NOT saying that David did not have a special relationship with God and Jehovah) This truth was available (and still is) all over the Earth.
God promised that he would instill the truth in his people.
Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
Jer 31:33 But this [shall be] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. (Ref. Hebrews 8:10)
Here it is, God himself saying that He will put His Truth in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts;
Fellow brothers and sisters, I discovered the above Scripture since I posted my original truth statement. I will post it again and let you all be the judge. :)
I believe from the very center of my being, which is God and his Son, that the truth was always in me and always available to me.....This is what I am trying to say, the truth is in us, it is just waiting to be released. This is why truth can be found anywhere at anytime. No one person has the sole handle on truth.
Is not discovery of truth sometimes like a light bulb? Off and dark and in an instant, on and bright.
The light always there, but the darkness overshadowed it.
2Cr 4:6 For God, who said, “Let light shine out of darkness,” made his light shine in our hearts to give us the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Christ.
Psa 97:11 Light is sown for the righteous, and gladness for the upright in heart.
Comments welcome,
May God continue to Bless you my brother and sisters,
Darren
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Hi Kat,
I think I can see where our paths part :)
I think we might be able to walk together again, real soon. :)
My responses in blue
As I look at scripture it indicates that we 'come' to the truth, that it isn't already there.
1Tim 2:4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
Come to the knowledge of truth, is different than obtaining truth. One may hold a truth for years and never recognize it as such
John 16:13 When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.
John 15:26 And when the Comforter has come, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father, He shall testify of Me.
Kat, I am not discounting this at all, NOT A BIT! :) But who can say when the spirit comes? When you're 40, 80 or just a child? Also, (spitting hairs here) God is truth, the spirit is the spirit of this truth. :)
And this seems to say some will never come to the truth in this life.
2Tim 3:7 always learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
v. 8 Now as Jannes and Jambres resisted Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, disapproved concerning the faith;
Kat, the above Scripture witnesses my point very well. Some will never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. They HAVE the truth, yet know it not as truth and resist it. [Rom 1:21]
These scripture all say we receive the truth from God :)
Kat, I do not believe I ever said that the truth did not come from God, please show where I wrote that so that I can apologize to the whole forum.
God told us that he would put truth inside us and write it on our hearts.
Jer 31:33 But this [shall be] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Thanks for your input. Thank God for this wonderful opportunity to learn of His truth. :)
Your brother in Christ,
Darren
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Hi Darren,
You said, "Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, [even] his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
What does it mean, to be without excuse? I think it means that if you don't get it, then you are not excused.
Does this mean that all mankind has had the truth in them always? It's true that all creation is for mankind to understand that there is a Godhead with eternal power, but is that Godhead in all mankind? Isn't all mankind dead in their sins (spiritually).
Ephesians 2:1
And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
Colossians 2:13
And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses
Mankind is dead spiritually until God makes them alive by His Spirit. You quoted, 2Cr 4:6 For God, who said, “Let light shine out of darkness,” made his light shine in our hearts to give us the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Christ.
God had to shine His light into our darkness...our death....before He could give us the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Christ.
Jn. 14:6
I am the way, the truth, and the life...Christ is the truth...but He was not always in you. The light came on when He made you alive and not until then.
We were all children of wrath and of our father Satan, even Jesus said, "John 8:44
Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it."
Darren, I believe that all that you are seeing happens after we are made alive by His Spirit. Just the way I see it.
Your brother,
Dwight
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Just another jewel that I found, regarding finding God (truth) in Creation. :)
Psa 19:1 The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.
Psa 19:2 Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge.
Psa 19:3 [There is] no speech nor language, [where] their voice is not heard.
Psa 19:4 Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them hath he set a tabernacle for the sun,
Psa 19:5 Which [is] as a bridegroom coming out of his chamber, [and] rejoiceth as a strong man to run a race.
Psa 19:6 His going forth [is] from the end of the heaven, and his circuit unto the ends of it: and there is nothing hid from the heat thereof.
Psa 19:7 The law of the LORD [is] perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD [is] sure, making wise the simple.
Psa 19:8 The statutes of the LORD [are] right, rejoicing the heart: the commandment of the LORD [is] pure, enlightening the eyes.
Psa 19:9 The fear of the LORD [is] clean, enduring for ever: the judgments of the LORD [are] true [and] righteous altogether.
There is no where on this Earth where His truth through creation is not heard. (Note it did not say "understood") :)
Love to all,
Darren
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Man seeks to make God available to only a few.
Darren, I truly do not believe this is the domain of man or even within His power. The Lord reveals Himself to whom He wills.
Deu 7:6 For thou art a holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.
Deu 7:7 The LORD did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people:
Mat 11:25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent and hast revealed them unto babes.
Mat 11:26 Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight.
Mat 11:27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.
Joh 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
Joh 15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.
1Pe 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should show forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvelous light:
Darren,
What you posted on Psalms 19 is truly inspiring but I am seeing this scripture as not pertaining primarily to the here and now, the physical realm, but in the next age when all the rest of creation is experiencing the chastising grace of His Spirit, His refining heat/fire to the eventual conversion of all.
Is this (Psalm 19) not speaking of judgement?
His Peace and Wisdom to you,
Joe
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Hi Joe,
You said: "The Lord reveals Himself to whom He wills." Of this I have no doubt at all. However, I have known many "would-be" preachers of truth, who chose to serve additional truths to whom they chose. :( This is of course ridiculous to the extreme; however, their self conceit darkened their hearts and taught their own truth. :( (Actually it is laughable. :D)
Joe, when I said that the truth was in me from the beginning, I never said that I understood it as such, and for that matter who can say how much I understand now? :)
This was not my point. Having something and being knowledgeable about it two completely different things. I have access to the internet, but know and understand less than 0.000001% of what it contains I guess. ???
But this is what "coming" to the truth means in my mind. We are introduced to the Truth, sometimes gradually and sometimes with a jolt.
Jer 31:33 But this [shall be] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
I think the real question is: Did God write his truth in the hearts of his people or did he not? :)
I firmly believe that He did. :)
Luk 12:2 For there is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed; neither hid, that shall not be known.
However, did God grant understanding to everyone?
Well I think we can garner something out of the following Scripture:
Jhn 3:34 For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure [unto him].
Here we are told that God does indeed measure out his Spirit, but unto Christ, there is no limit.
Of Psalm 19, I believe it is speaking of present time. It appears that Paul drew from this Scripture when he wrote Romans 1:20 and carried on from that point in vs' 21 & 22.
Just my thoughts, if any others have anything to add to this, please do. :)
Your brother in Christ,
Darren
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Hi Joe,
Hello Darren,
(I will make a couple comments in green type)
You said: "The Lord reveals Himself to whom He wills." Of this I have no doubt at all. However, I have known many "would-be" preachers of truth, who chose to serve additional truths to whom they chose. :( This is of course ridiculous to the extreme; however, their self conceit darkened their hearts and taught their own truth. :( (Actually it is laughable. :D)
Joe, when I said that the truth was in me from the beginning, I never said that I understood it as such, and for that matter who can say how much I understand now? :)
This was not my point. Having something and being knowledgeable about it two completely different things. I have access to the internet, but know and understand less than 0.000001% of what it contains I guess. ???
But this is what "coming" to the truth means in my mind. We are introduced to the Truth, sometimes gradually and sometimes with a jolt.
Jer 31:33 But this [shall be] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
I think the real question is: Did God write his truth in the hearts of his people or did he not? :)
I firmly believe that He did. :)
This I certainly agree with, "write His Truth in the hearts of His people" but I was commenting on your earlier statement "Man seeks to make God available only to a few" which I replied that it was not man's call or even within man's power to decrease the availability of God.
Luk 12:2 For there is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed; neither hid, that shall not be known.
However, did God grant understanding to everyone?
Well I think we can garner something out of the following Scripture:
Jhn 3:34 For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure [unto him].
Here we are told that God does indeed measure out his Spirit, but unto Christ, there is no limit.
Of Psalm 19, I believe it is speaking of present time. It appears that Paul drew from this Scripture when he wrote Romans 1:20 and carried on from that point in vs' 21 & 22.
If you recall my statement I said "Primarily" not "Exclusively" since the majority will be saved in the next age I see this "nothing hid from the heat thereof " (verse 6) being very pertinant to the refining of all creation.
Darren, please read this (Psalm 19) again, can you see how this is true for His people His elect now (in their natural lives) but also true for ALL humanity in the next age?
Just my thoughts, if any others have anything to add to this, please do. :)
Your brother in Christ,
Darren
His Peace to you,
Joe
Hello again Darren,
Let me attempt to restate what I now believe you are saying;
God wrote His Word in the hearts of His chosen people in the very beginning, as He reveals Himself and He removes the scales from their eyes they begin to see what has been before them since their birth but never recognized due to a spiritual blindness.
When we begin the process of Christ living in us we see His Word and Truth as being familiar, like perhaps a long lost family member who we never knew before but immediately recognized once we were introduced, they looked and seemed familiar although we previously "knew them not."
Does this hit the mark of the point you are making?
His Peace to you Brother,
Joe
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I am so glad that you posted something to which I feel I have something to contribute because it lets me ask, "Is your nickname 'Mr. Snacks', or 'Mrs. Nacks?'" I am breathless with anticipation.....
New Truths and revelations from God are dicey subjects. How many other well-meaning seekers have been led down paths of... um... less-than-the-whole-Truth? They too felt as "led by the Spirit" as anyone here.
I feel an analogy coming on -- somebody stop me!
Consider Universal Truth as an incredible Universal Symphony with Scripture being the score (the written notes from which we play our part).
I can hand you the score to the most beautiful symphony ever written. You can study it, study about it, learn about the different techniques and elements that make up the piece; but until you hear it played well, you probably will not have a much fuller appreciation of the music (or its author, for that matter).
The love of music is borne of the playing and hearing of the music. Loving music does not require that you know about it or have a degree in music (but I believe it helps). It is the sound of music that draws us mystically to the orchestra (cue: Julie Andrews). A usual reaction is to sate one's hunger to know more about the music, its context, its nuances, its author, and how others have interpreted different passages. Others may just sit back and enjoy the fullness of the music without a care about those things. Either of these loves the music equally.
Some of us are conductors, copyists, clarinetists, violinists -- some of us even make complete bassoonists of ourselves from time-to-time(!) -- playing our part. Playing solo makes us feel incomplete. Wherever two or three gather, the harmonies bring excitement and joy. Join a fellowship of like-minded musicians and let the music play in full!
Practice, of course, makes perfection. Keeping our instrument well-tuned and oiled will keep our part strong and confident.
Study the score, but remember the score is not the music!!! (If you understand this, you will understand me better) The score is merely the means to communicate the music from author to person to person to person. Quoting measure #114 or comparing measure #1234 against measure #14 is not always edifying to the symphony (or the orchestra members). Only those who have studied and can play "expertly" should even attempt to do so.
So, "new" truth and "new" revelation.... Does it "fit" with the overall theme and style of the core melody? Is there a dissonance? Is it "playable (livable)?" If someone wants to play a phrase a certain way, can it be done without losing fellow players?
Music, especially in this analogy, is for everyone; but not everyone will "get" it. Some will find the symphony phony, others will hear nothing but the simplest melodies and forget them soon after music stops, and others still will experience and share the fullness of the author's intentions -- not being able to get the melody "out of their heads."
I am wary of "new" anything, but am open to different interpretations of a theme as long as the central melody remains intact. I feel that we too often lose sight of this.
Peace
American Federation of Musicians
Local 161-710
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Hey Pax, I thoroughly enjoyed your post! What a beautiful analogy. Very cool.
Peace,
Diana
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Joe,
Thanks for sharing your view regarding your understanding of what I am saying. Yes, you have worded it inline with my thoughts. Are they also yours?
I have read Psalm 19 over and over and I still see it's message for yesterday, today and tomorrow. (Is, was and will be)
Let me post the remainder of the Chapter and make notes regarding my understanding. :)
Psa 19:10 More to be desired [are they] than gold, yea, than much fine gold: sweeter also than honey and the honeycomb.
The truths that are to be found in all of creation (heavens, firmament, clouds) are in Davids mind (mine also) are more valuable than fine gold and sweeter to the heart than any other (wordly) word / doctrine. They are TRUTH. :)
Psa 19:11 Moreover by them is thy servant warned: [and] in keeping of them [there is] great reward.
The truths that are learned, should be well understood and kept always. The reward is life.
Psa 19:12 Who can understand [his] errors? cleanse thou me from secret [faults].
Psa 19:13 Keep back thy servant also from presumptuous [sins]; let them not have dominion over me: then shall I be upright, and I shall be innocent from the great transgression.
Psa 19:14 Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer
David knew well that he was still a servant of sin; however, he knew also that the truth he learned would keep sin from having dominion over him.
Is this chapter prophetic? I believe it is also talking of the time of Christ. I really believe that the repeated mention of sins and faults in vs's 11, 12, & 13 are referring to today.
Here is what Paul says of learning from creation and what happened to many.
Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, [even] his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Rom 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified [him] not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
Rom 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
Rom 1:23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.[/b]
Rom 1:24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
Rom 1:25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen
What do you think vs 24 is saying?
There is two parts to this.
1. even as they did not like to retain God in [their] knowledge, (vs 21)
2. God gave them up to uncleanness
Does "God gave them up to uncleanness " mean God gave them unclean desires, or does it mean instead, that: God allowed them to fall victims of their self wisdom, conceit, lusts, pride etc? The word 'up' would suggest that God figuratively let them walk through the door into the world of Satan.
Please know that I am not saying this was not God's plan.
Just my thoughts brother Joe,
Darren
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Psalm 138 : 2
I will bow down toward Your Holy Temple and will praise Your Name for Your Love and Your Faithfulness, for You have exalted above ALL THINGS Your Name and your Word.
There is not doubt or debate that the marvels of God's creation demonstrate to us God's love, greatness, power, wisdom and strength.
Beyond the countless different aspects of nature there are two other ways that God makes Himself available to us and this is through His Name and His Word. These He has exalted ABOVE all the demonstrations of nature that witness to His greatness. This is where New Age stops and faith begins. We can not come to God on the merits of creation. We come to Him and He is made available to us through His word and Name.
John 16:23…I assure you, most solemnly I tell you, that My Father will grant you whatever you ask in My Name, as presenting all that I AM.
Through God's Name and Word He does for us what His creation can not do. His creation can not give us the Creator. The Creator makes Himself available to those He chooses, through His word and Name. This is where God opens to us the secret aspects of His nature that His creation cannot disclose. In His word we can learn of His mercy, grace and unmerited favour that presents all that He is yesterday, today and tomorrow.
Peace to you
Arcturus :)
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Arcturus, my dear sister,
What a wonderful post. I agree with most everything you state and only question two little things. :)
This I promise is not an attack on you; rather, I am struggling with a major insight and I believe all of the answers fit.
Please follow along and please correct me if you see a wrongful statement.
You wrote:
Through God's Name and Word He does for us what His creation can not do. His creation can not give us the Creator. The Creator makes Himself available to those He chooses, through His word and Name. This is where God opens to us the secret aspects of His nature that His creation cannot disclose. In His word we can learn of His mercy, grace and unmerited favour that presents all that He is yesterday, today and tomorrow.
Rom 1:20, For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, [even] his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
I agree with you, when you say that: "creation cannot give us the creator" and dare I say, neither can his word, unless he grants understanding. I believe we are in agreement on this.
However, what do you think are "the secret aspects of His nature that His creation cannot disclose?"
Romans 1:20 in my mind covers everything including His eternal power and Godhead. Could it be that we open to the truth, because God has already placed his truth in our hearts? Don't you think that looking a creation, the moon, stars, ants etc :) is totally different than looking at the world?
Jer 31:33 But this [shall be] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people
I also agree with you that we can certainly learn of God's mercy, grace and unmerited favour towards his people in his word, but do you not think that these same attributes are clearly visible in creation? :)
I do. When we look past the obvious and look at the thought, design and care that went into the countless creatures, even a single cell, I truly believe that we can obtain such understanding as you mention.
Let me say that all is of God. He gives us all that we need, food, shelter, love, understanding and protection. He gives us this because he chooses to. I do not for a moment think that creation should dismiss the Word of God. Regardless where we are in life, and just how God opened our heart and minds to him, whether it be by creation or by written Word. Our charter is to walk with him always by faith, irrespective of the way it was garnered.
2Cr 5:7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight:)
Does this make sense? I believe that for my part, this thread has run it's course. If anyone would like to discuss it further with me, please PM me. :)
Your brother in Christ,
Darren
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Very nicely said Arcturus,
That is where the rubber hits the road as Ray would say.
Once again you've giving me something more to think about.
Thank you.
Your brother in Christ
Randy ;D 8) ;D
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Darren,
I have spent this afternoon reading over this thread… studying the subject at hand, as I am sure you have been since you made your original statement:
“What I am going to say will no doubt cause some discussion, but I believe from the very center of my being, which is God and his Son, that the truth was always in me and always available to me.”
I want to be careful of how I give an answer… everyday I visit this forum and I see that there are usually about twice as many guests here reading as there are members. Many of these guests are reading not only our current conversations, but also reading far back into the archives of conversations that we the members have long forgotten. It is for this reason that we should all be aware of our guests and for their sake and our own we must keep our discussions scripturally grounded.
Several posts back… you brought up Jeremiah 31 as a proof text that God has already written His law on our hearts.
Here is your statement:
“’Jer 31:33 But this [shall be] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.’
I think the real question is: Did God write his truth in the hearts of his people or did he not?
I firmly believe that He did.”
Darren do you believe that he “did” or do you believe that he is, was and will be writing His law on our hearts? Do you believe this was a one time event somewhere off in the distant past… ?
Let’s look at the passage again from Jeremiah:
Jeremiah 31:33-34
33: But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the LORD: I will put my law within them, and I will write it upon their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34: And no longer shall each man teach his neighbor and each his brother, saying, `Know the LORD,' for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest, says the LORD; for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more."
Where do you see it stated that God “has written” His law on our/their Hearts? It’s not there… not even in the original text…
Here is how it appears in the Hebrew in its original order:
“has this the-covenant which I-shall-cut with house-of Israel after the-days the-those averment-of Yahweh I give >> law-of-me within-them and-on heart-of-them I-shall-write-her and-I-become for Elohim and-they they-shall-become to-me for-people”
Notice again that the “I will put my law within them, and I will write it upon their hearts” is still in the indefinite tense”…
Furthermore, you then make this statement concerning Psalms 19:
“The truths that are to be found in all of creation (heavens, firmament, clouds) are in Davids mind (mine also) are more valuable than fine gold and sweeter to the heart than any other (wordly) word / doctrine. They are TRUTH.”
I have again read and re-read this Psalms 19 to see where you are seeing that God has placed the truth in us, so that “the truth was always in me and always available to me.”
Here is Psalms 19, in it’s entirety:
Psalms 19
0: To the choirmaster. A Psalm of David.
1: The heavens are telling the glory of God; and the firmament proclaims his handiwork.
2: Day to day pours forth speech, and night to night declares knowledge.
3: There is no speech, nor are there words; their voice is not heard;
4: yet their voice goes out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them he has set a tent for the sun,
5: which comes forth like a bridegroom leaving his chamber, and like a strong man runs its course with joy.
6: Its rising is from the end of the heavens, and its circuit to the end of them; and there is nothing hid from its heat.
7: The law of the LORD is perfect, reviving the soul; the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple;
8: the precepts of the LORD are right, rejoicing the heart; the commandment of the LORD is pure, enlightening the eyes;
9: the fear of the LORD is clean, enduring for ever; the ordinances of the LORD are true, and righteous altogether.
10: More to be desired are they than gold, even much fine gold; sweeter also than honey and drippings of the honeycomb.
11: Moreover by them is thy servant warned; in keeping them there is great reward.
12: But who can discern his errors? Clear thou me from hidden faults.
13: Keep back thy servant also from presumptuous sins; let them not have dominion over me! Then I shall be blameless, and innocent of great transgression.
14: Let the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my rock and my redeemer.
Notice that the “ordinances of the Lord” which are” true and righteous altogether” did not originate in David’s mind or from within his being, but that God revealed this to him by “the heavens telling the glory of God and the firmament proclaiming his handiwork.”
Darren, there is no doubt that God has chosen His elect even before the foundations of the earth… but to day that he has already placed His truth in them nullifies the process of sanctification and the learning of righteousness in our lives during this present age.
John 17:1-26
1: When Jesus had spoken these words, he lifted up his eyes to heaven and said, "Father, the hour has come; glorify thy Son that the Son may glorify thee,
2: since thou hast given him power over all flesh, to give eternal life to all whom thou hast given him.
3: And this is eternal life, that they know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent.
4: I glorified thee on earth, having accomplished the work which thou gavest me to do;
5: and now, Father, glorify thou me in thy own presence with the glory which I had with thee before the world was made.
6: "I have manifested thy name to the men whom thou gavest me out of the world; thine they were, and thou gavest them to me, and they have kept thy word.
7: Now they know that everything that thou hast given me is from thee;
8: for I have given them the words which thou gavest me, and they have received them and know in truth that I came from thee; and they have believed that thou didst send me.
9: I am praying for them; I am not praying for the world but for those whom thou hast given me, for they are thine;
10: all mine are thine, and thine are mine, and I am glorified in them.
11: And now I am no more in the world, but they are in the world, and I am coming to thee. Holy Father, keep them in thy name, which thou hast given me, that they may be one, even as we are one.
12: While I was with them, I kept them in thy name, which thou hast given me; I have guarded them, and none of them is lost but the son of perdition, that the scripture might be fulfilled.
13: But now I am coming to thee; and these things I speak in the world, that they may have my joy fulfilled in themselves.
14: I have given them thy word; and the world has hated them because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
15: I do not pray that thou shouldst take them out of the world, but that thou shouldst keep them from the evil one.
16: They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
17: Sanctify them in the truth; thy word is truth.
18: As thou didst send me into the world, so I have sent them into the world.
19: And for their sake I consecrate myself, that they also may be consecrated in truth.
20: "I do not pray for these only, but also for those who believe in me through their word,
21: that they may all be one; even as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be in us, so that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
22: The glory which thou hast given me I have given to them, that they may be one even as we are one,
23: I in them and thou in me, that they may become perfectly one, so that the world may know that thou hast sent me and hast loved them even as thou hast loved me.
24: Father, I desire that they also, whom thou hast given me, may be with me where I am, to behold my glory which thou hast given me in thy love for me before the foundation of the world.
25: O righteous Father, the world has not known thee, but I have known thee; and these know that thou hast sent me.
26: I made known to them thy name, and I will make it known, that the love with which thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them."
Darren, look at verse 17… notice that it is the word of God that is truth… that the Lord has prayed for those that belong to God so that they may be “sanctified” in and consecrated in truth”… for they are not yet one, even as the Father and the Son are one.
Darren, you state that: “Of course I cannot say I could voice everything, for I never once considered that Jehovah of the OT and Jesus Christ of the NT were one and the same, BUT the moment I heard it from Ray, I knew it to be true. I knew all of the contentious Scriptures that seemed to contradict, so I guess you could say I knew the truth when I heard it.”
But can you claim that you already possessed the sum of the word of God… before God led you to open up the scriptures and actually read and understand what they say?
Psalms 119:160
The sum of Thy word is truth, And to the age is every judgment of Thy righteousness!
John 14:5-6
5: Thomas said to him, "Lord, we do not know where you are going; how can we know the way?"
6: Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but by me.
Jesus Christ is the Word of God, He is the way, THE TRUTH and the life… and the SUM OF HIS WORD IS TRUTH… do you believe that you possessed this before God led you to read the scriptures?
What troubles me most about this entire thread… is that Darren, to say that the truth has “always been in you and available to you”… and that “The truths that are to be found in all of creation (heavens, firmament, clouds) are in Davids mind (mine also)…” sound as though you are already sure of your election?
Let us not forget the words of Paul…
1 Corinthians 9:26-27
26: Well, I do not run aimlessly, I do not box as one beating the air;
27: but I pommel my body and subdue it, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified.
Let us seek to make our election sure… lest after preaching to others we ourselves should become disqualified.
God’s Peace.
Josh
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Darren
I think Josh and all the other brothers and sisters here have very kindly, soberly and thoughtfully given you enough to think about without me having to now answer your questions which answers would pale by contrast to the wisdom and insight already offered to you.
Suffice to say that God's Word does not return to Him empty, and the Word was with God, (Jn 1:1 ) and the Word was God (Jn 1:1) and the Word was made flesh, (Jn 1 : 14) and His Name was called The Word of God, ( Rev 19 : 13) and His Name shall be in their foreheads. (Rev 22 : 4)
Rev 15 : 4 Who shall not reverence and glorify Your Name, O Lord? For You only are holy.
Peace to you
Arcturus :)
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Josh, I will respond to your post because you have obviously put a great deal of effort (through the grace of God) into it.
You said:
Notice that the “ordinances of the Lord” which are” true and righteous altogether” did not originate in David’s mind or from within his being, but that God revealed this to him by “the heavens telling the glory of God and the firmament proclaiming his handiwork.”
Well of course!! :) Honestly Josh, isn't this what I said. Do you really believe that I think Man is responsible for his learning the truth? It's not what I said brother. :)
Darren, you state that: “Of course I cannot say I could voice everything, for I never once considered that Jehovah of the OT and Jesus Christ of the NT were one and the same, BUT the moment I heard it from Ray, I knew it to be true. I knew all of the contentious Scriptures that seemed to contradict, so I guess you could say I knew the truth when I heard it.”
But can you claim that you already possessed the sum of the word of God… before God led you to open up the scriptures and actually read and understand what they say?
No Josh, I never once said that I had the "sum" of the Word of God, I am sorry that you thought I did. But let me ask you this Josh. :)
How does God upload his truth into you? Does he use a wireless, broadband connection. Is His words encrypted with 2400 bit encryption. Do they float through billions of lightyears to reach your heart. Or are they already there? We are in God, perhaps he just removes the darkness so that we can see the truth for what it is. Why then is the truth so comfortable, so perfect? How can we be so sure it is truth? God grants truth, can he not also hide it? :)
What troubles me most about this entire thread… is that Darren, to say that the truth has “always been in you and available to you”… and that “The truths that are to be found in all of creation (heavens, firmament, clouds) are in Davids mind (mine also)…” sound as though you are already sure of your election?
Josh, for you to even think such a thing just shows that the words that I type do not match the words of my heart. If you believe that I am certain of my election then you surely do not know me at all :(
But can you claim that you already possessed the sum of the word of God… before God led you to open up the scriptures and actually read and understand what they say?
Your words brother Josh, I never said this or implied it. Infact, I did say that the truth I believe I have which is God, has not yet been revealed to me so that I could understand. I never once said I knew it all, I never once said anyone is wrong. I was sharing brother Josh and I said nothing like what you accuse me for. :)
I will admit that it seems I was mistaken regarding my rendering of Jer 31 and Heb 8
I have checked many translations regarding the next Scripture, and cannot find conclusive evidence regarding the correct translation.
Psa 51:6 Behold, thou desirest truth in the inward parts: and in the hidden [part] thou shalt make me to know wisdom.
I see some translations saying "thou shalt make me to know wisdom" while others say "you are making me know wisdom" (words mine)
So Josh, I thank you for shedding the light on these scriptures. :)
Jesus Christ is the Word of God, He is the way, THE TRUTH and the life… and the SUM OF HIS WORD IS TRUTH… do you believe that you possessed this before God led you to read the scriptures
Josh let me say something here. I have been reading the bible for almost 40 years. Did God first lead me to it or not? If he did, according to his plan, then I certainly DID NOT reach any kind of realization of truth. Note I never once said I did. :)
Let me share something with you. I read the Bible, I was taught that the same Scripture could say 3 different things. Oh I revered the Bible, not that I understood it, but rather it was the word of God. God never changes, yet it seemed His word changed as many times as people who read it.
I know that God has been in my heart for as long as I can remember. I can truthfully say to you that I do not know a time when he was not. Think on this for a while, please. I knew when God was close, and I knew the times I tried to walk alone, defiant, proud and conceited. Who was I kidding? He was with me always.
Am I wrong or foolish to tell you that God has blessed me repeatedly throughout my life thus far. I trust Him explicitly, I used to seek him in countless books and never grew closer, actually He pulled away. Josh, I was searching for something but I didn't know what; God was with me all the while. It wasn't until I stopped seeking Him with my eyes and hands but rather my heart that His truths were revealed.
Perhaps I am the only one who feels that when truth is discovered it is like darkness being pulled away and His truth beams outward from within me, not inward. This is simply how it is for me.
I am not saying anyone is wrong, and I am not saying that I am special nor that I am even one of his chosen, let alone his elected. I would never do such a thing, for who am I to question God's plan for me. I have no reason to worry or be afraid, for the darkness that was once within me is being pushed aside most everyday.
I hope this leaves you with a greater understanding of what I was saying. I cannot say when God was first revealed to me; it truly feels like He has always been with me. I can however, tell you the first time I discovered a like minded person who at least spoke the words within my heart, and that was when I read the first article of Ray's. I knew I wasn't alone.
God continues to bend, twist and shape me, for brother, I am a long way from perfect.
May God continue to bless you my brother,
Your brother in Christ.
Darren
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Darren
I think Josh and all the other brothers and sisters here have very kindly, soberly and thoughtfully given you enough to think about without me having to now answer your questions which answers would pale by contrast to the wisdom and insight already offered to you.
Suffice to say that God's Word does not return to Him empty, and the Word was with God, (Jn 1:1 ) and the Word was God (Jn 1:1) and the Word was made flesh, (Jn 1 : 14) and His Name was called The Word of God, ( Rev 19 : 13) and His Name shall be in their foreheads. (Rev 22 : 4)
Rev 15 : 4 Who shall not reverence and glorify Your Name, O Lord? For You only are holy.
Peace to you
Arcturus :)
Arcturus, I can feel your love.
Thank you my sister,
Your brother in Christ,
Darren
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I believe that we the true brethren can find ourselves with God at the very begining. Ephesians Chapter One Verses 3 through 14. Verse 4 says For He chose us in Him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in His sight. But prior to the Holy Spirit teaching me this, I didnot have spiritual ears to hear as Satan was holding me captive through my mind which of course is "fleshy intellect". So when I read verse 4 in particular, I see God the father having known us long before we were born. Amen...?
May God's Glory Rest Upon You,
Bruce
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Hi Bruce,
Welcome to the forum! Glad you're here.
Thanks for the scriptures.
Ephesians 1:4 is a powerful and humbling scripture;
According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
Thanks
Iris
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Bruce,
I agree with Iris. :) And welcome in His name.
Lisa
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Hello Bruce
Welcome! As our sisters observe, it is truly wonderful that we can see the Sovereignty of God and that He sees the beginning from the end! This is awesome as we contemplate that there is no such thing as free will OUTSIDE of the plan of God. God Plans everything, knows everything before it happens and will save every one in the end through HIS refining fire and gracious judgements.
Peace to you
Arcturus
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Arcturus,
Thanks for the kind welcome. I thought your reply was worded wonderfully. Yes I too believe that our God not only created us but in Ephesians Chapter 1 I see how God saw into eternity future and past. My fleshly mind has trouble comprehending that but the Holy Spirit within me knows this is the truth. God Bless You Brother!
Bruce
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;D
Bruce...I have had this problem in the past too. When I was in the Financial world my staff called me SIR. I was a real task master and punctuality was a knife edge as were my competitive edges! I was the boss so I guess they were trying to flatter me or they just considered me less than soft! ;D
I have had a hilarious time here in the Forum when other members have assumed that I am male! ;D ;D I take it as the highest compliment thou' bro' 8) but I have to say I am very female and I love all the feminine aspects of being a woman. I have learnt to see through sentimental frills and familiarity that often cover the wolves teeth! and breed contempt! I guess that is why I am sometimes considered less sentimental than my sisters and brothers when in fact my strength in Christ covers my very weak and sentimental heart. My strength is Christ and my talents are His gifts to me. Without Him and His gifts I am just a mess!
I pray to do well with what I have, to encourage, edify and exhort where He requires me to be loyal to Him and singleminded upon His plans and will for me. I pray for that! I know our fellowship is with HIM for without Him we have only the counterfeit!
Peace to you bro' from your sister
Arcturus :D
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;D Arc you are too funny!!!
Hi Bruce & welcome.
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Arc, Please accept my apology for assuming you as a male. Now even though you are my sister in Christ Jesus, we are still the brethren ;D Thanks for setting me straight sister! Children Of God...Amen?
In Christ Jesus,
Bro Bruce
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You only flattered me Bruce! ;D so thank you!
Children of God alright! :D Amen ;D
Peace to you
Arcturus :)