bible-truths.com/forums
=> General Discussions => Topic started by: GODSown1 on July 24, 2007, 11:51:56 PM
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Hi all ur Help is so needed,
wher shall I start, Well in the weekend jus gone I was visited by a good friend from church, whom is a Criiminal Lawyer & is the Vessel I believe GOD used 4 me in my calling. Well in da weekend he came 2 c Y I aint been goin 2 church, um! U r bein decieved! bla bla bla, But! den I let him hav it, Righteously of coz :D ,of da hour he was der he Only had 10minutes to speak az spoke ova him & stood firm of da Truths & wot I hav learn't well wot my Eyes hav been Opened 2, well b4 he left he said 2 me "Bro U r 1 out of da Box character & I truly admire ur dilengency" den said " I really didnt want our friendship 2 end dis way (wit tears in his eyes I mus add, showing his sincerity), I jus said mate! it will only b U whom end it, az I said "my arms will alwayz b Open 2 him & his Wife & 2 n e 1 else frm da church & he left. Well yestrday I recieved a fonecall frm a now retired snr Pastoress! & Pastor whom r da founders of 'NEW LIFE Church' der r many all ova the world & I hav much respect 4 them az da wife put on our wedding 4 us @ der home & it was an Amazing day plus dey r jus Awesum pple 2 know ( I once believed if der was n e annoitted pple in dis World, dey surely r d@), well wher was I? :), Yvonne says 2 me I havnt seen U @ church in bout 2-3months is n e thing wrong? actually as soon az I heard her voice I new Y she had rung (my Lawyer friend :) ), I jus answered her "I havent stopped LOVING GOD, actually I believe I have more LOVE 4 HIM more den eva b4", she says aw! d@s real good, but I was wondering if U & Tristan(wife) would cum ova 2nite jus 2 catch up, No hesatation I said Yes we would Love 2, so 8pm lastnight we went up 2 their very beautiful home. Well John her husband was der a good man I mus add 2, well dey started wit my wife Knowing really she had nothing 2 do wit Y we were there & asked her a few Questions den BANG!! lol! :D "all eyes on me" lol! :). So 2 show abit more respect bein in der home & 4 whom dey were I was abit more calmer in my answering But did get out stuff I really felt da church 2day was doin (well more not doin) :) & der precious "New Life Church" az well. Well John started der r plenty of verses about money in the Bible, der surely is a hell, Ive seen many a man b pulled frm the church wit dez teachingz bla bla bla, BUT! then BANG!! the words he said d@ Hit me in da head, "Well if U r prepared 2 cum up nxt week & hav a study with a Open mind & bring all wot ur paperwork & wot hav U, & i will b prepared 2 do da same az Im all about knowing GODS Truths proven frm the Word of GOD only". This is wot got me sayn YES! he was prepared 2 listen especially if its concerning GODS Truths. :D Now!! Y Im writing dis is I would LOVE sum feed back frm uz all on, the Questions hez most likely 2 ask & hw I am 2 scripturly answer dem & how eva I should answer him,um! wot uZ think would b the best 2 hit him with, I no one is the hell well the NO hell, az I did bring dis up & he went on about den GOD wouldnt b just! bla bla bla, Tithing he didnt actually say I was wrong but jus said money is mentioned many times in the Word bla bla bla. But! I really! really! ask all my brothers & sisters 4 ur input, az Im seeing dis could end up being a great!! thing GOD Willing of corZ, um! GODS Will not ours I think needs 2 b said, um! GODS in Control & each & everyone has der own Plans GOD given um... PlezZ!!! I ask in the mighty! glorious! amazing! precious formidable! name of CHRIST JESUS ur HELP. GODBLESS! uz AlL most abundantly!!!! Oxx
much muchLOVE!! Pera
Ps.Well I hope dis all makes sense??, its next Wednesday apparently we r 2 discuss/ study dis all, Peace! 2 AlL BlesSuP!, aw! jus remembered 2 I said 2 him wot does ALL will b saved mean't, his reply it says no such thing :) lol! hmm.... :)
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Oh Pera,
All I can say..... is GOD BE WITH YOU ALWAYS. :)
Peace and many blessings ~ Lisa
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Dear Pera,
As someone who recently came to understand that hell is not taught in the Bible I would like to offer my thoughts. Keep the study focused on one thing--the word hell. The word hell is used only 12 times in any semi honest translation. Further, the word hell is a mistranslation of the Greek word Ge'enna or the Latin word Gehen'na. Do not let anyone use the King James Bible during your study because the KJV uses the word hell numerous times without any linguistic justification. Use the New King James since they will probably accept it as an accurate translation. The New King James uses the word hell in the following 12 places. Matthew 5:22, 5:29, 5:30; 10:28, 18:9, 23:15, 23.33; Mark 9:43, 9:45, 9:47; Luke 12:5; James 3:6
Do some study on the meaning of Gehenna and discuss what Jesus meant by the word Gehenna. My advice again is, stay focused on the word hell and the word Gehenna.
Sincerely,
Dean
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Very interesting set of stories, Pera! You are one "outta da box character" in a good good way! :) I realize this is exciting news!!
But Pera, if you are seeking help on this matter, I'm guessing you do not feel comfortable about soon being in a "teaching" position. And I sure can understand that! I myself would lack the preparation and ability necessary to be able to organize a bible study on a variety of subjects. I think Ray has an email response about this, that not everyone is called or intended to be a teacher.
Instead, I think the next best thing to do to follow through on your Spirit-led desire to share the truths we all have come to know and love is to give this man a nice card with Ray's website written in it: BibleTruths.com. If it's God's will, he will then visit the site and start reading and learning and accepting what Ray teaches there, as we all have done. If not, well, that's God's will also.
Explain to him you feel that this would be the best way for God to bless him. [And this is a way for you to graciously bowing out of it. ;)] Unless, of course, my friend, you are really burning to do this. Only you can say. Either way, I'm proud and happy for you Pera!! Keep studying and hanging in here with your God-given faith in these wonderful truths!
Thanks for all your support and friendship here at the forum. :)
Love, Janice
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Hi Pera! I can feel your excitement! Very cool brother. Here's the thing, you are a unique person with your own unique story...take some quiet time and remember what it was that really struck a chord in you when you first came to believe differently. Tell your own personal story of how you got to where you are now and what it has meant to you. You don't have to have all your ducks in a row necessarily...if people are struck by your sincerity and are led by God to do so, they will come back and ask more questions. You don't need us to tell you what to say, God will lead you if it is what He wills...and not only that....the way you tell it could be so different from the way I would share it and that's how it should be. What are the scriptures that struck you to the core? Share those. What was the moment that the light turned on? Share that. How did it change your outlook for the better? Definitely share that. How did God speak to Pera? Share d@!! Know what I'm saying? Be who you are and don't worry about all the head knowledge, God will put the scriptures in your mind that you have read which meant something to you. When I have shared in the past I was amazed at what I could remember when I needed it, and those were the times I really knew God was working....
Take some time to reflect and write down your thoughts on your own journey...this will help you keep it straight in your mind when excitement takes over. Eventually you will want to lead them to bibletruths aritcles which gives enough scriptural explanation of why you believe what you do. If it's not who you are, and you're not comfortable with it, you don't have to machine gun them with an "arsenal" of scriptural proof of this or that. For me, there were only a few scripture that God wouldn't leave me alone about, they kept me up at night and drove me to seek out more scripture...but it started only with less than a handful....
I love your passion brother, it's infectious!! God be with you.
Peace and love to ya,
Diana
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A few Scriptures, and a Heart for God is all you need. And brother Pera, you have that :D...let the Spirit do the rest.
The character and nature of God is greater than man's opinions!
A friend in Christ - jER
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Hi all ur Help is so needed,
wher shall I start, Well in the weekend jus gone I was visited by a good friend from church, whom is a Criiminal Lawyer & is the Vessel I believe GOD used 4 me in my calling. Well in da weekend he came 2 c Y I aint been goin 2 church, um! U r bein decieved! bla bla bla, But! den I let him hav it, Righteously of coz :D ,of da hour he was der he Only had 10minutes to speak az spoke ova him & stood firm of da Truths & wot I hav learn't well wot my Eyes hav been Opened 2, well b4 he left he said 2 me "Bro U r 1 out of da Box character & I truly admire ur dilengency" den said " I really didnt want our friendship 2 end dis way (wit tears in his eyes I mus add, showing his sincerity), I jus said mate! it will only b U whom end it, az I said "my arms will alwayz b Open 2 him & his Wife & 2 n e 1 else frm da church & he left. Well yestrday I recieved a fonecall frm a now retired snr Pastoress! & Pastor whom r da founders of 'NEW LIFE Church' der r many all ova the world & I hav much respect 4 them az da wife put on our wedding 4 us @ der home & it was an Amazing day plus dey r jus Awesum pple 2 know ( I once believed if der was n e annoitted pple in dis World, dey surely r d@), well wher was I? :), Yvonne says 2 me I havnt seen U @ church in bout 2-3months is n e thing wrong? actually as soon az I heard her voice I new Y she had rung (my Lawyer friend :) ), I jus answered her "I havent stopped LOVING GOD, actually I believe I have more LOVE 4 HIM more den eva b4", she says aw! d@s real good, but I was wondering if U & Tristan(wife) would cum ova 2nite jus 2 catch up, No hesatation I said Yes we would Love 2, so 8pm lastnight we went up 2 their very beautiful home. Well John her husband was der a good man I mus add 2, well dey started wit my wife Knowing really she had nothing 2 do wit Y we were there & asked her a few Questions den BANG!! lol! :D "all eyes on me" lol! :). So 2 show abit more respect bein in der home & 4 whom dey were I was abit more calmer in my answering But did get out stuff I really felt da church 2day was doin (well more not doin) :) & der precious "New Life Church" az well. Well John started der r plenty of verses about money in the Bible, der surely is a hell, Ive seen many a man b pulled frm the church wit dez teachingz bla bla bla, BUT! then BANG!! the words he said d@ Hit me in da head, "Well if U r prepared 2 cum up nxt week & hav a study with a Open mind & bring all wot ur paperwork & wot hav U, & i will b prepared 2 do da same az Im all about knowing GODS Truths proven frm the Word of GOD only". This is wot got me sayn YES! he was prepared 2 listen especially if its concerning GODS Truths. :D Now!! Y Im writing dis is I would LOVE sum feed back frm uz all on, the Questions hez most likely 2 ask & hw I am 2 scripturly answer dem & how eva I should answer him,um! wot uZ think would b the best 2 hit him with, I no one is the hell well the NO hell, az I did bring dis up & he went on about den GOD wouldnt b just! bla bla bla, Tithing he didnt actually say I was wrong but jus said money is mentioned many times in the Word bla bla bla. But! I really! really! ask all my brothers & sisters 4 ur input, az Im seeing dis could end up being a great!! thing GOD Willing of corZ, um! GODS Will not ours I think needs 2 b said, um! GODS in Control & each & everyone has der own Plans GOD given um... PlezZ!!! I ask in the mighty! glorious! amazing! precious formidable! name of CHRIST JESUS ur HELP. GODBLESS! uz AlL most abundantly!!!! Oxx
much muchLOVE!! Pera
Ps.Well I hope dis all makes sense??, its next Wednesday apparently we r 2 discuss/ study dis all, Peace! 2 AlL BlesSuP!, aw! jus remembered 2 I said 2 him wot does ALL will b saved mean't, his reply it says no such thing :) lol! hmm.... :)
Pera you are one of a kind man. Truly you make me smile, everytime and right now is one of those times. The love you have for all around you amazes me, and i am humbled.
Brother there is so much when it comes to the salvation of all mankind, the evil lie of eternal damnation, and a Father who is truly in controle.
I want to give you a verse that i feel will give you peace when you go to speak with this man;
Matthew 10:19-19 "And ye shall be brought before governors and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them and the Gentiles.
But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak."'
I have full faith that God will show you and speak through all that He wishes to say to this man. You are His vessel, a vessel of honor by His mercy and grace.
Matthew 28:20 "...lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen."
Perhaps if the Lord wills, i can give you some scriptures that would help in showing this man the truth. We do have this very simple yet profound and powerful verse that no man can deny;
1 Timothy 2:3-4 "For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth."
Remember Pera, that whatever God simply WISHES will be accomplished, let alone WILLS.
Remember the former things of old: for I am GOD, and there is none else; I am GOD, and there is none like Me. Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel SHALL STAND, and WILL DO ALL MY PLEASURE [as in I Tim. 2:4 and everywhere else]: (Isaiah 46:8-10)
Much love to you pera, and my prayers are with you always.
In Christ,
Alex
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Hi Pera,
Hell is the power of the church. They use it (Satan) and plant it deep in their church goers hearts. It a control play. Now you must understand they hold this as true to them as Saul believed that he was right.
I would read all the LOF on hell and pick out what God showed you to bring you here. Use what you know and if asked a question you are not totally sure of just say that you will look for the scriptures that apply and get back to them at a later date, this keeps the door open even if they think they will correct you.
MOST of all PRAY to our God in Jesus that he leads you in this stand for HIS truth. Alex brought out some very good Scripture>
REMEMBER if you are not sure use the, "I'll get back to you on that.
You bring out a very strong question and I have to be sure my answer is correct with the word of God. "
Write down ALL questions as this will prove to then (if they return) that you are very careful in handling the word of God.
God is with you my brother.
Randy.
;D 8) ;D
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Hi Pera,
Well that is an interesting situation you are in. You have a opportunity to teach your ex-pastor the truth.
My dear friend I have a feeling this may be more intended to show you all the errors of what you are learning. These preachers have studied the scriptures for many years, to form there heresies, and I don't think he has any intention of letting you show him the truth, because he thinks he already has it. Please be careful about walking into a snakes den, he is prepared and waiting on you.
I think Janice has the right idea. Unless you have all these scripture nailed down and can quote them at the drop of a hat, it will be difficult to recall them when he is bombarding you with questions. They always seem to ask questions you were not expecting.
I think maybe you should mail him a card (before you go there next Wed.), with Ray's site on it-Bibletruths.com, and tell him this is where you have been studying. How ever he responses to BT will give you a big clue as to where he is coming from. If he is sincerely looking into the truth, you will know by a positive reaction from what he read. If he starts in on Ray, as not knowing what he's taking about, you will know that there is no need to try and convince him.
Well, this will be interesting to see how it goes. I will certainly keep you in my prayers :)
mercy, peace, and love
Kat
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Hi Pera,
You've been given some very good advice and I agree with what's already been said. I just wanted to send some more encouragement your way. You're such a beacon of light on this forum. I pray your meeting has a peaceful outcome.
Love and blessings,
Carol
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Sowing seed in rocky soil are we ?
Been there, done that.
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Hi Pera,
There's really nothing to prepare for other than keeping your word in meeting with them. The best advice I could give is to keep studying the Word as God puts it in you. Even if you give them all the scriptures that you've come to the truth with, will they see the truth as well? They could, but probably not. It's a common thing that worldly church doctrines aren't supported by the true Word of God. You're doing a great job with what you've come to know, but remember God is in control, so no matter what questions you answer right, what proof you have that scriptures show that there is no pagan hell, tithing is unscriptural under the new covenant, etc... God will show them what He will show them and He will withold from them what He will withold from them for His purposes. Although I am intrigued, so let me know how it goes ;)
Luke 21:14-15
14) Settle it therefore in your hearts, not to meditate before what ye shall answer:
15) For I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist.
your friend,
-Beau
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Man Pera! I will keep you on my mind for your meeting! I can't tell you what to say. I don't have enough knowledge. The only thing I can see is to look at what God has done in your life. I don't know if you will try to change their minds about their beliefs but just stand on what God has done in your life.
Seminole
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Pera, my friend you are an inspiration and my prayers are with you.
Much love to you,
Darren
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Pera you da man!!!!!
(I think I would take a quick vacation NOW!!!!)
No way I could do that. But if God has set this up you will obey!
Don't get out the Gospel Guns to shoot each other with. He is gonna have his scriptures and your gonna have yours. If you want him to listen openly to you, he is gonna expect that from you.
I agree w/ Dean. Stick to the word hell. Keep to one topic-don't try to show him everything you have learned. Meet again if necessary. You will know quickly if he wants truth or just wants you to see how wrong you are.
Yu R N my prayrs!!
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Hi Pera,
Lots of amazing advice. Do it your way, brother. My prayers will be with you.
Love, Ursula
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Boy Pera, that's a real workout reading your posts. Anyway, you shouldn't insist that hell doesn't exist. It definitely used to. In the Old English it meant to cover or conceal. I would start with this definition. Then explain the meaning of Sheol (the unseen, often translated grave). Next show them Psalm 16:10 and quoted in Acts 2:27 to show that Sheol has the same scriptural meaning as hades. Then destroy their hell defense by showing that Sheol is translated grave just as many times as it is translated hell in the OT (KJ, of cource). Then go over the term hades and say "look, I've already shown that scripture has Sheol and hades meaning the same thing. All of this is in Ray's hell series by the way. Oh yea, show them what Gehenna is also. But what ever you do, do not, I mean do not!!! forget to explain the proper way of translating aion. I mean, what's the point of being purified forever. Type as many of Ray's examples out as possible. This will help you avoid the impossible task of teaching the blind to identify the light of scripture. Boy, I get giddy when I think about how much I would like to shove scripture down the throats of churchians. This is most likely do to my immature pride but nobody asks me anything or really bothers me because I never belonged to a church. I'm sure eventually, God will give me all I can handle though.
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Brother P,
I believe you've gotten some good advice. I believe God will show you now what you need to do and say, and I'm betting it won't be until you meet with him. But just know, like everyone who's replied before me, that I'm in your corner too!
Your Brother,
James
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Print some of Rays material dealing with what you are to speak about and do what Ray does {to your ability}...
ask him to give you two Scriptures that proves it wrong.
Seems like that way you could keep it focused and make him produce evidence. And I'm not talking about accepting a general statement like "well the bible says" this or that. I'd insist that he shows you TWO Scriptures. Seems like the best way to keep it simple and to the point.
Mark
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Good luck Pera! Be sure to pray before you see him, and after you leave. And also give him the bible-truths.com link. God bless.
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Yo bro... thought you wouldn't mind hearing from me twice... ;)
I will give you a bunch of verses in a PM that you can print out, relevant to the subject of GOD WILL SAVE ALL OF HIS CREATION. I would definitely keep it simple, and I thought Kat's idea was great... to check on the intent of this guy. I say this only because in Ray's wisdom in that email response I mentioned above [that I can't find to show you]... if memory serves me correctly, he said something like preachers [that are spiritually blind] and have an attitude can "have you for lunch." Watch out!
Will shoot the verses to ya tonight..... Got lots of GREAT ONES!!!
xxoo, Janice
(http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z3/jbirdowens/ILUHeart.gif)
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wow! slap! Bang! me on da Head :D lol!,
First of all, All Thanks must go to the FATHER, Thank YOU LORD. wow! da response is so ova whelming Im starting 2 believe ive turned in2 a Sook (cry baby) :). Thru all ur great replies has just blowen my Wife away ( not literally :) ), Honestly she could jus feel da LOVE & da sincerety in all responses, & d@ alone is uplifting 2 me. I was really jus wanting frm use ur very knowledgable input in which I could take grasp of 4 strength! in return will give me da courage! 2 go forth & do dis az GOD Wills, But! in sayn d@, (slap! slap! again) :D, How did it slip my mind? :) GOD is in Control (slap! :) ). I thank u all bcoz uZ all hav ur very own unique way of exspressing GODS Love in use with da Knowledge use all posess, it is phenominal! GOD given of coz, I mean dis frm da bottom of my heart, I so LOVE! LOVE! LOVE U all. I believe I am 2 read all ur responses ova & ova b4 da day me & John r 2 meet, I feel all bein said 2 me is da voice of the LORD "Thus saith the LORD, go forth & do, for I the LORD am with You". GODBlesS! uZ! All wholeheartedly!
much muchLOVE!! Pera
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Reconciliation Scriptures - for ALL (Pera) ;)
________________________________________
1. 1Tim 2:4-God will have all to be saved - Can His will be thwarted?
2. 1Tim 2:4-God desires all to come to the knowledge of truth - Will His desire come to pass, or is it a WEAK WISH?
3. 1Tim 2:6-Salvation of all is….testified in due time - Are we judging God before due time?
4. Jn 12:47-Jesus came to save all - Will He succeed, or FAIL?
5. Eph 1:11-God works all after the counsel of His will - Can our will overcome His?
6. Jn 4:42-Jesus is Savior of the world - Can He be Savior of all without saving all?
7. 1Jn 4:14-Jesus is Savior of the world - Why don't we BELIEVE it?
8. Jn 12:32-Jesus will draw all mankind unto Himself - To burn or to love?
9. Col 1:16-By Him all were created - Will He lose a part of His creation?
10. Rm 5:15-21-In Adam all condemned, in Christ all live - The same ALL?
11. 1Cor 15:22-In Adam all die, in Christ all live - Again, the same ALL?
12. Eph 1:10-All come into Him at the fulness of times - Are YOU tired of seeing the word, ALL?
13. Phil 2:9-11-Every tongue shall confess Jesus is Lord - Will the Holy Spirit be given to everyone?
14. 1Cor 12:3-Cannot confess except by Holy Spirit - See what I mean?
15. Rm 11:26-All Israel will be saved - But most Jews don't believe yet!
16. Acts 3:20, 21-Restitution of all - How plain can you get?
17. Luke 2:10-Jesus will be joy to all people - Is there joy in Satan’s "hell"?
18. Heb 8:11, 12-All will know God - How long will you tarry, O Lord?
19. Eph 2:7-His grace shown in the ages to come - Have we judged Him before the coming age?
20. Titus 2:11-Grace has appeared to all - Experientially or Prophetically?
21. Rm 8:19-21-Creation set at liberty - How much of creation? After those who have the firstfruits of the spirit?
22. Col 1:20-All reconciled unto God - There's that word "ALL" again.
23. 1Cor 4:5-All will have praise of God - What for?
24. Jms 5:11-End of the Lord is full of mercy - Is eternal "hell" merciful?
25. Rev 15:4-All nations worship when God's judgments are seen - Could His judgment be mercy?
26. Rm 11:32-All subject to unbelief, mercy on all - All?
27. Rm 11:36-All out of, through, and into Him - ALL into Him?
28. Eph 4:10-Jesus will fill all things - does this include "hell?"
29. Rev 5:13-All creation seen praising God - Including Satan? All creation!
30. 1Cor 15:28-God will be all in all - What does that mean?
31. Rev 21:4, 5-No more tears, all things made new - ALL made new? Or few? Are you crying still?
32. Jn 5:25-All dead who hear will live - How many will hear?
33. Jn 5:28-All in the grave will hear & come forth - How will the "righteous" Judge, judge?
34. 1 Cor 3:15-All saved so as by fire - How can FIRE save you?
35. Mk 9:49-Everyone shall be salted with fire - Including you?
36. Rm 11:15-Reconciliation of the world - Will fire save?
37. 2Cor 5:15-Jesus died for ALL - Did He die in vain?
38. Jn 8:29-Jesus always does what pleases His Father - What pleases the Father? (1Tim 2:4)
39. Heb 1:2-Jesus is Heir of all things - Does "things" include people? YES.
40. Jn 17:2-Jesus gives eternal life to all that His Father gave Him - How many did the Father give Him?
41. Jn 3:35-The Father gave Him all things - (Repeated for emphasis) Study the word "things”.
42. 1 Tim 4:9-11-Jesus is Savior of all - Can't seem to get away from that word "all."
43. Heb. 7:25-Jesus is able to save to the uttermost - How far is "uttermost?"
44. 1Cor 15:26-Last enemy, death, will be destroyed - In the "lake of fire" which is the “second” death. No more dying (Rev 21:4, Isa. 25:8 )?
45. Is 46:10-God will do all His pleasure - Does Old Testament agree with the New?
46. Gen 18:18-All families of the earth will be blessed - Here comes that word "all" again.
47. Dan 4:35-God's will done in heaven and earth - What can defeat His will?
48. Ps 66:3, 4-Enemies will submit to God - Can any stay rebellious?
49. Ps 90:3-God turns man to destruction, and then says return - How can one return from "destruction”? Humbled, bruised and ashamed?
50. Is 25:7-Will destroy veil spread over all nations - All nations?
51. Deut 32:39-He kills and makes alive - Kills to bring life?
52. Ps 33:15-God fashions all hearts - "All" hearts, including men like "Hitler"?
53. Prv 16:9-Man devises, God directs his steps - What about "free will"?
54. Prv 19:21-Man devises, but God's counsel stands - So much for "free will."
55. La 3:31, 32-God will not cast off forever - Why does He cast off in the first place?
56. Is 2:2-All nations shall flow to the Lord's house - ALL nations?
57. Ps 86:9-All nations will worship Him - ALL nations!
58. Is 45:23-All descendants of Israel justified - Including the wicked ones?
59. Ps 138:4-All kings will praise God - Are you catching on?
60. Ps 65:2-4-All flesh will come to God - That sounds wondrous.
61. Ps 72:18-God only does wondrous things - I wish we would BELIEVE that.
62. Isa 19:14, 15-Egypt & Assyria will be restored - Really?
63. Ezk 16:55-Sodom will be restored to former estate - Sounds impossible.
64. Jer 32:17-Nothing is too difficult for Him - Nothing? No, nothing!
65. Ps 22:27-All ends of the earth will turn to Him - For what purpose?
66. Ps 22:27-All families will worship before Him - Praise His name!
67. Ps 145:9-He is good to all - Including your worst enemies.
68. Ps 145:9-His mercies are over all his works - Let's start believing that.
69. Ps 145:14-He raises all who fall - Who hasn't sinned?
70. Ps 145:10-All His works will praise Him - For "eternal torment"?
71. Is 25:6-Lord makes a feast for all people - And you are invited.
72. Jer 32:35-Never entered His mind to torture his children with fire.- This came from the carnal mind, NOT SPIRITUAL.
73. Jn 6:44-No one can come to Him unless He draws (drag) them. - You can't "choose" to follow Him, SELF-DETERMINATION.
74. Jn 12:32-I will draw all mankind unto Myself - Amen!
75. Ps 135:6-God does what pleases Him - If it PLEASES Him to SAVE ALL that He might be in all, are you upset?
PEOPLE ADD A LITTLE AND TAKE AWAY FROM THE WORD, TURN AN AGE INTO ETERNITY, REDUCE SALVATION TO JUST A FEW AND DIMINISH GOD’S WILL TO NOTHING MORE THAN A WEAK DESIRE. ALL WILL NOT BE OVER-COMERS (SAINTS), BUT ALL WILL COME TO THE THRONE OF GRACE.
...in the presence of the Lamb (Rev.14:10).
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Keep us posted.
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Hey all :D,
Well da study wit da Pastor went xactly how I thort & U all did :), He didnt want 2 read all wot I took 2 him, which was basically on "No hell" & "Tithing" bein Unscriptural um! abit on da "Trinity" or better on NO Trinity :) & ALL Will b saved!, He just basically said woteva its written in da Bible if U dont believe U go 2 hell bla bla bla, Y he didnt wana read my papers was bcoz he new I was set in my mind in my belief & he new he would b wasting his time tryna change my mind :), he gav me a cple of paperz on hell frm da scriptures & bla bla bla on GOD needs money 2 build His Kingdom bla bla bla, um! U r bein deceived frm dis evil man Ray :) bla bla bla. But! I stood firm on the Truths of the Word & did not yield 2 him, Well da wife had 2 settle me down a cple of times tho :D, But! I did take his papers 2 read but it all ended up bein a whole lot of trash! & got wot trash! deserves 2 b put in da rubbish!!! :D (Thank U lil sister Janice :D ), he also gav a paper about Ray sayn hez dis & hez d@ bla bla bla, da dumbest fing about wot was written about Ray was it had a sentence sayn. Ray Smith rants & raves with sophonomoric sarcasm against the doctrine of eternal punishment, He also insists evil was "created" by GOD. :D :D hmm... Well Hello!!! (ISAIAH 45:7) :) crazy!!, but I neva read dis till I was gone, Funny tho he reckoned 2 me well Ive cum 2 a point I cant speak n e sense in2 U, u r gunna b missed frm the church the pple d@ Love U bla bla bla But! all we can do is Pray 4 U, I said ill b doin da Prayn 4 uZ :D, I really njoyed da Xsperience tho lol! :D, its made me stronger again, GODS WilL be done, alwayZ has, alwayZ Will, I Jus wana Thank U all again!!!!!!! :) 4 ur Awesum!! az support & encouragement! & great knowledge! in the Word of our Wonderful! GOD, So GODBLEsS! uZ all az i so no HE is.
muchLOVE!! Pera
Ps. I did say b4 I left der house, my arms will always b Opened 2 dem & whoeva else frm da church. Im guessn it wont b da same da other way around, ae?? lol! :) :D Peace 2 AlL
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Nice try Pera .
As I commented before "Been there and done that" . I wrote a detailed explanation of my experience and submitted it and it did not get posted because of posting conflicts.
I don't know if it is worth writing it again or not, but for those who have not been there and would like to hear it, here goes.
I decided to take my mother to church a year of so ago because I felt I should spend time with her before she died on me, and keep her from killing someone while driving herself to church (she is 84 and still drives). She thought I was having a great time I guess, and decided we should go to Sunday school too.
Anyway, the question of why people who were being saved at crusades and during church sermons do not return to church or do not seem to make any progress was brought up a couple of times in Sunday school and the teacher decided to attack the problem one Sunday.
Of course, I knew better cause I have seen these people point out their own problems before and never come to a solution. But I was fairly tired of hearing false doctrines week after week , so I piped up that salvation is a process , not guaranteed, and no one can say they are saved until the end, and I quoted the scripture :
22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity
I stated that Jesus was talking to those of us who think they are saved and call him Lord.
Then things took a turn for the worse. An elder accused me of taking these verses out of context.
I started down the road of showing them how Jesus and the Apostles could take scripture out of context and it kept getting worse.
The elder stated that he was saved when he was 14, and raised his hand and said "I belive in Jesus Christ". Well, I thought we are right back where we started.
The elder then asked me if I thought Paul was saved. Well, I could see it coming now. These people already believed that Paul was floating around in heaven playing a harp, and if I told them that he probably was but would only be sure when ressurected , I would be laughed out of the place. Fortunately the class came to an abrupt end as I stated that I belived Paul met the requirements, endured, and would be saved.
I was very embarassed, and realized how difficult it is to destroy one false doctrine without dealing with the rest of them. In fact it is impossible to convince anyone who thinks they have a pocket full of candy that they really have a pocket full of marbles. The need and have not eyes to see and ears to hear.
The result was that these people think they have a problem with the people who have been saved by their crusades and witnessing , but they still do not know what it is. Of course the ones saved by their crusades go home thinking they are saved and everything is just fine.
My mother will not take her 65 year old son to Sunday school anymore because I was too loud. Now I only have to go to church....Thank the Lord.
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Hey Thanks heaps Orlando,
thanks 4 sharing, Well its all GODS timing one must remember HE does da dragging & da Opening of eyes & ears aye, oh well life does go on :).
muchLOVE!! Pera
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Orlando, good story :D
Pera, hon, I thank God for your love and bravery to meet w/ them. But I sorta thought that is what would happen. But, hey, you tried!
I am so glad your wife has read the thread. I hope things are going better.
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Well, I'm glad you had the experience Pera, and maybe you will be called on again to serve our Lord and His purposes. So proud you had the last loving words, so to speak. :)
Orlando, I very much appreciated hearing your story as well. :)
And jER, I've collected over 130 verses supporting the theme 'God will save all'... and now thanks to you... I got about 20 more from your earlier post!! :)
Pera, I know you know, but I'm going to show A FEW verses from God's Word, NOTE THAT Ray has nothing to do with it, besides Isaiah 45: 7 that INSIST evil is created/caused by God. Maybe it will help someone somewhere sometime.... :)
Lam 3: 38 Out of the mouth of the most High proceedeth not EVIL and good?
Eccl 1: 13 an experience of EVIL has God given to the sons of man to humble him thereby. [Concordant Old Testament]
2Sam 12: 11a Thus saith the Lord, Behold, I will raise up EVIL against thee out of thine own house,
Jer 4: 6 Set up the standard toward Zion: retire, stay not: for I [the Lord] will bring EVIL from the north, and a great destruction.
Jer 18: 11a Now therefore go to, speak to the men of Judah, and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, saying, Thus saith the Lord; Behold, I frame EVIL against you,
Josh 23: 15a Therefore it shall come to pass, that as all good things are come upon you, which the Lord your God promised you; so shall the Lord bring upon you all EVIL things,
Job 2: 10 a But he said unto her, Thou speakest as one of the foolish women speaketh. What? shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive EVIL?
Amos 3: 6 Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be EVIL in a city, and the Lord hath not done it?
Jer 26: 3 If so be they will hearken, and turn every man from his evil way, that I [the Lord] may repent me of the EVIL, which I purpose to do unto them because of the evil of their doings.
Jer 6: 19a Hear, O earth: behold, I [the Lord] will bring EVIL upon this people,
Judges 9: 23a Then God sent an EVIL spirit between Abimelech and the men of Shechem;
2Kings 6: 33 And while he yet talked with them, behold, the messenger came down unto him: and he said, Behold, this EVIL is of the Lord; what should I wait for the Lord any longer?
Job 26: 13 By his spirit he hath garnished the heavens; his hand hath formed the crooked serpent.
Jer 19: 3b Thus saith the Lord of hosts, the God of Israel; Behold, I will bring EVIL upon this place,
Those are just some of the shorter verses on this subject for the benefit of ALL.
Well, Bro... onward we go, AE? AE!!!!! :D
Spiritual kiss 2 U! You add 2 my joy! :-*
I love our Lord, and I thank God 4 U Pera!
Janice
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Pera, you did good! You talked to these friends and whether or not they believe as you do , you spoke in love. Mad respect!Nole
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Pera, it sounds like you did better than I would have! That's the key: stay firm and calm....even if your wife has to settle you down once in awhile!!! :)
I had someone give me papers on hell; they obviously never read them as there were so many unscriptural and made up errors and nonsense....they wouldn't take any of the stuff I printed, so now I just refuse to read anything they try to give.
People will not see the truth, even if you present it flawlessly with all the scripture....I've been there. They will refuse to believe, unless God changes their heart and opens their eyes....I pray God does that for those folks, and gives you favor to speak to people like that in your area. We still have to speak the truth though, and you are doing it!!! Peace to you and your wife...James
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Hey! Thanks brother James,
Thank U all, I was jus telln Janice im gunna b startn a group @ home on Friday eveningz, & not knowing she had jus wrote me sayn she had been spirit led 2 tell me 2 start a group @ home, aye ministry even :) , wow!! Praise the LORD 4 HE is GOOD. Hey! brother James (shmeggly) I Pray all is well wit U my brother or better still U r seeing da lite @ da end of da tunnel of ur marriage situation either way ma bo, I jus know the LORD will show U Y!! dis had 2 b, keep the Faith ma brother,keep strong, & thanks 4 all ur input my brother it is most appreciated! Hardowt!!. I was also wantn 2 tell all bowt my situation in my marriage, it is slowly but surely cumn 2 sum sort of sembly order :) I can c Y certain fingz had 2 happen, so all Glory mus go 2 GOD alwayz, GOD b wit U all, az I surely know HE is, Peace b wit U all in CHRIST JESUS...
muchLOVE!! Pera
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Hi Pera,
I encourage you on your journey of studying God's Word to become strong in It so that no man can shake you from your foundation [Christ] or seemingly turn God's Word back against you. Over time you will stand tall in this regard, I have no doubt.
Dear readers, Pera is a natural leader and counsellor and I feel he is being groomed to serve our Lord in even more ways than he already has...
Pera is a people-person and spends a lot of his time talking and leading others OUT of a life of drug dependency, OUT of criminal life, AWAY from violent (wife beating) habits and INTO the loving arms of our Father and Lord. Pera already has a handful of success stories, praise God!!
You're God's Own Pera... where have I seen that before?? HA!
Much love, Janice
(http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z3/jbirdowens/RoseBouquet.jpg)
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:D :) aw! Janice "Stop iT" :),
:D where have I seen d@ b4? hahaha! :D wotacrkup!! gurl, "StoP iT" . its all good, jus like GOD :) :P :D, GODBLesS!, I will b tryn ma Best! 2 hear our LORD on each & every turn I should or shouldnt make, GOD is in Control so there shall be NO! turns, straight ahead We go, haha! :)..
muchLOVE!! Pera
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God Bless you Pera on your exciting journey. :)
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Back @ U sister Jackie Lee,
on ur Xciting! journey, I Pray GODBLesSes U 2
muchLOVE!! Pera
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Reconciliation Scriptures - for ALL (Pera) ;)
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jER, What bible did you use for these reconciliation scriptures? Thanks, Jim.
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Jim (newoldstock) WELCOME
To answer your question, "What bible did you use for these reconciliation scriptures?"
Most all Bibles, knowing and understanding that there are translational errors. However, like I have taught my daughters, "Read this, now tell me what it says." Naturally, they respond, "I already did." To which I reply, "No – you read it to me, now, tell me what it said." I was always taught to pay attention to the words, not just the physical words on a page, but rather, what is being said, as the Holy Spirit is the teacher.
If you were to take the Thompson Chain Reference Bible (King James Version) for example it reads: (when I was overseas, yet, not believing, a certain person was going to throw this Bible in the trash-bin, but for some reason – I kept it for 32 years, now).
Acts 3:20, 21 (KJV) – And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.
Now, tell me what this actually says:
Acts 3:20, 21-Restitution of all (things- include mankind). How plain can you get?
And:
II Timothy 2:4 (KJV) – Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
Now, what did this verse just say:
I Tim 2:4-God will have all to be saved - Can His will be thwarted?
I Tim 2:4-God desires (will have) all to come to the knowledge of truth - Will His desire come to pass, or is it a WEAK WISH.
There is no doubt at all, that if God "Will have, desired to, or wished for something to take place – it surely would."
A friend in Christ
- jER
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I was a bit confused when I tried to find the exact wording in my parallel bible. So essentially you are doing your own dynamic equivalence ( thought for thought) translation from what you are reading in the King James Bible. Thanks for taking the time to explain. I copied and printed your list and went through it last night on eSword. I think that it will be a valuable tool for me since I am still a newbie. newoldstock.
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I have been reading the book of Acts in the ConcordantLiteral. Boy, no one can say the bible is boring!
Sorry, wasn't on topic. :-[
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Hi Gena,
Do you read it online, or do you have a hard copy?
Love,
Ursula
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Ursula, I bought it from Amazon.com
but you can get it from Concordant Publishing. They have them for various prices. I got a NT and a Greek interlinear.
Now, I want the OT too.
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jER
Those Scriptures especially with the blue highlighted points, were excellent. Could make for a seasoned answer to any one asking the reason for our hope.
Peace to you
Arcturus :)
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OK, thanks Gena,
I'll get one there. I also wanted to install it into esword, but I can't seem to find it anywhere.
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HMMMmMM......I installed it but have no clue how or where I did. Maybe Kat can help w/ that.
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Arcturus - His "Peace to you" as well.
- jER