Ray's words from the emails provided are in blue.
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3460.msg25787.html#msg25787
Dear Stella:
I really marvel that anyone would ask this questions, yet hundreds of asked it and continue to ask it regularly. The question should rather be: "If most people are NOT saved from some eternal hellhole of torture, then WHY did Jesus have to die to be a Saviour to billions of people who will never be saved? That should be the obvious question.
The answer, however, to your question is, it is ONLY by means of Jesus' sacrifice and sin Offering for our sins that ANYONE could ever be saved, and it is by the same means that ALL WILL BE SAVED.
ALL HAVE SINNED, and Jesus DIED FOR THE SINS OF "ALL" THE WORLD (I John 2:2).
The wages of sin is DEATH, and therefore Jesus will ABOLISH DEATH (I Cor. 15:26), so that ALL MAY BE SAVED (I Tim. 2:4) seeing that He gave Himself a ransom FOR ALL (Ver. 6), but this ransom will be testified only, "in DUE TIME." This age is NOT the time for the salvation of all. This is "a" day of salvation, but not "the" day or only day of salvation. See my HELL Part D to be posted next month for all the details of this and much much more.
God be with you,
Ray
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,13793.msg121614.html#msg121614
Okay, Cheryl, I will try to answer your question which was: QUESTION IF HELL ISN'T REAL THEN WHY DID GOD SEND HIS SON TO SAVE US FROM DEATH AND OUR SINS?
First, your question is incoherent. That is, it doesn't make sense, and it contradicts itself. What if we turn your question around and ask: "If hell IS real, then why did God send His Son to save us from death and our sins?" You see, whether there is or is not a hell has absolutely NOTHING to do with why Jesus died for our sins. Jesus Christ "died for our sins," we are told in Scripture.
We are NOWHERE told that Jesus died for our sins to SAVE US FROM HELL. Where is there such a Scripture? There is none. When will we stop parroting pagan Christian doctrines and start believing the Bible? The world of Christendom would have us believe that "The wages of sin is LIFE in an eternal HELL OF FIRE."
Where do the Scriptures teach such nonsense? Now then, will you believe the Scriptures? If I show you what the Scriptures really say about the wages of sin, will you believe it?
Okay, here it is:
Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin IS DEATH ; but the gift of God is ETERNAL LIFE through Jesus Christ our Lord.
There it is. What is the "WAGES" of sin? There is no "gift" for sin, there is only "WAGES" for sin. So what IS the "wages" of sin, is it "eternal LIFE?" or "DEATH?" Well we just read it, the "wages of sin is DEATH"--not eternal LIFE in hell. Where does one get "eternal LIFE?" Why it is "THE GIFT OF God...through Jesus Christ our Lord."
There it is, but will you believe it? Yes, Christ died for our sins, but not to save us from eternal "LIFE" (in some Egyptian pagan terrorist hellhole of eternal pain and suffering in fire). "Eternal LIFE" is a gift, not a punishment for sin.
So there is one great and Biblical answer to your question. There are many many more, but I don't have to time to go through them, and if one will not believe one absolute Biblical proof that there is no eternal hell of torture, then that person will not believe a dozen Biblical proofs. Study my paper. There are dozens and dozens of Scriptural answers as to why there is no such thing as a eternal torture chamber for most of the human race of God's children. May God grant to you the wisdom to see these simple and profound truths of the Bible.
God be with you,
Ray
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,1811.msg15120.html#msg15120
Dear Mike:
I don't like to play "let's suppose" or "what if" with the Truths of God. What if Christ had not lived a sinless life, then would the Son of God also be tortured eternally in a lake of fire?
If there never was a Christ to die for mankind and the sins of the world, then when all sinners die, they would REMAIN DEAD! Seeing that "the wages of sin is DEATH" (Rom. 6:23), NOT "eternal torture in a lake of fire."
But the Truth is that God does not desire that any shall be annihilated OR be tortured eternally in fire. That is why Jesus DID live a sinless life and die for mankind, and in Judgment all manking WILL be taught righteousness and godliness.
God be with you,
Ray
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2776.msg20562.html#msg20562
Dear Tim:
No, Tim, you have it all backwards: "If there IS a hell, THEN why would Jesus need to die?"
That's the question. If there IS a hell and He died to save humanity from hell, but they STILL
go to hell, what in hell good was it that He died? And where do you read that the lake of fire
was created for "Satan and his demons?" Show me that Scripture? "...Depart from me, you cursed, into eonian [age-abiding] fire prepared for the devil and his ANGELS [Gk: 'messengers']" (Matt. 25:41). And just who are Satan's messengers? Why there are the two-faced lying hypocrites and blasphemers who teach that God is going to torture most of humanity in an eternal hellhole of pain and misery, rather than save them, as His Word plainly states (I Tim. 2:4; 4:10; Phil. 2:9-11; I John 4:14; 2:2, etc., etc.).
Tim: We have NO free will. Read my four-part series on "The Myth of Free Will Exposed," wherein I have 120 pages of Scriptural proof that man has no such thing as the phantom of "free" will.
God be with you,
Ray
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,13736.msg120872.html#msg120872
Here is the conclusion to the whole matter:
"Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death ? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death : that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of His resurrection : "Knowing this, that our old man is CRUCIFIED [put to DEATH] with Him , that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin . FOR HE THAT IS DEAD IS FREED FROM SIN .
COMMENT: Notice that it only through "death" that the sinner is freed from his sin. Christ had to DIE, and we have to DIE. We are "reckoned" to be death in baptism and we are "reckoned" to be alive, all through Christ.
"Now if we be DEAD with Christ , we believe that we shall also live with Him: Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dies no more; death hath no more dominion over Him. For in that He died, He died unto sin once: but in that He lives, He lives unto God. Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin , but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord. Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof. Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead , and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God. For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace " ( Rom. 6:3-14).
The answer to both sin and the sinner is "death." The only way to save the sinner is to get the sin out of the sinner. If sin could not be gotten out of the sinner, Jesus would never have died for him. "The wages of sin is death" ( Rom. 6:23). Jesus did not die to save sinners along WITH their sins. There will be no sinners in the kingdom of God . When all the sins and sinners that God now hates are cleansed of their sins, each will be a UNIQUE TREASURE to God that He will love and lavish for all eternity!
Ray
Lastly..........
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,11609.msg100484.html#msg100484
If there is no hell, why do we need a savior?
If there is no hell, why should I be good?
There is no Scripture that states that Jesus came to save people from HELL!!!
There are, however, hundreds of Scriptures telling us what God is and will save people from.
Jesus came to SAVE SINNERS! And Paul tells us that "ALL have sinned and come short of the glory of God." So what? Well, for one thing, "The wages of sin is DEATH." Death is a real enemy from which we all then need saving! (See I Cor. 15:26). Christ was crucified and then raised from the dead that our sins might be forgiven and that we might have LIFE. People will be resurrected from THE DEAD, not from life in an eternal hellhole of suffering.
There is much else that God saves us from: sin, immorality, prejudice, carnality, hatred, stupidity, arrogance, weakness, disease, fear, pain, suffering, darkness, futility, boredom, lust, pride, ignorance, foolishness, heartache, and a thousand other things from which we all need SAVING!
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Christ died because He loves humanity and all humanity has sinned and the wages of sin is DEATH! Christ died for SINNERS, not for HELL!
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By the very nature of things, some things require time and circumstances to develop. Example: Patience. By its very definition is not something that can be instantaneously created. Understand?
Furthermore, there are no qualities or virtues that are not the result of overcoming some form of evil or adversity. Since God wants sons who possess the very qualities of character to He Himself possesses, God creates the circumstances of life necessary to produce godly character.
Of course there is a purpose for our lives. We are all living out that purpose whether we are believers or unbelievers. God has a purpose for BOTH! See Romans 9:20-24. God is calling certain ones now to salvation. He will use those whom He calls in bringing ALL into repentance and salvation later. See I Cor. 15:26-28.
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Many ask the same question as you have. It is not a well-conceived question, however.
Think about your question for a moment and you will see how illogical a thought it is.
Suppose your were trapped in a burning building--would you consider this something to be saved from? Good.
Now suppose there are two hundred other people trapped in that same burning building. Would you not consider that they ALSO need, desire, and DESERVE to be saved? Good.
Now since you are "trapped" and cannot save yourself, there are experienced FIREMEN on the way to save you. (Apparently 'firemen' have more of a love for humanity than the god of Christianity does). But, as these firemen are approaching the building to SAVE EVERYONE, you have a question: "I am a bit confused as to WHY all these people trapped in this burning building NEED TO BE SAVED, if it is all up to the FIREMEN to save them?"
So seriously (don't be offended now), does you question make even a lick of sense? Of course not! Just as the trapped people in the burning building CANNOT SAVE THEMSELVES, but will need the experience of trained firemen to save them, likewise, we CANNOT SAVE OURSELVES from our SINS AND OUR INHERITED MORTALITY! But GOD JESUS CHRIST HAS BEEN TRAINED AND IS EXPERIENCED AT SAVING PEOPLE WHO CANNOT SAVE THEMSELVES! God will not leave most of His children in some burning building or hellhole of fire for all eternity without rescuing them!
God WILLS that ALL mankind be SAVED (I Tim. 2:4).
Thy WILL BE DONE (Matt. 6:10).
GOD IS LOVE (John 4:08).
LOVE NEVER FAILS (I Cor. 13:08).
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Thank you for your comments. I appreciate a person who can stand up for what they believe. Listen, Sarah, you've got it wrong, however, I never said, insinuated, nor do I for one second, believe that God loves ME more than He loves YOU. Actually, Sarah, this the the MAIN PROBLEM with Dr. Kennedy and Mr. Hagee in their teaching! They believe and fiercely teach, that God only TRULY loves a VERY FEW of His creatures, seeing that He absolutely has (according to their teachings), predetermined that MOST OF HUMANITY will be TORTURED IN SOME HELLHOLE OF REAL FIRE FOR ETERNITY!
Now Sarah, bear with me. I realize that I am not a man of soft, pious, self-righteous, words, I tell it like it is, but...BUT, to suggest that God created the human race KNOWING that He ABSOLUTELY WOULD, in the end, TORTURE, WITH FIRE, the MAJORITY OF HUMANITY, FOR ALL ETERNITY pales my language into nothingness by comparison.
Sarah, not only is this teaching of Dr. Kennedy and Mr. Hagee, UNSCRIPTURAL, it is by far the most EVIL CONCEPT TO EVER ENTER THE MIND OF MAN OR DEMON!!!
There is nothing, I mean ABSOLUTELY NOTHING, that could even begin to compare with this evil teaching if ever it were true. Sarah, use your God-given mind, spirit, and NATURAL AFFECTION to consider the enormity of this evil, unscriptural heresy.
Consider for a moment, the World Trade Center disaster. I witnessed the whole thing live and in living color. I was shocked beyond words. While I was watching, I was calling all over the country to friends to be sure they were watching too. Now, Sarah, when the last tower collapsed, did you not realize, at least for 99% of the people in the towers, that their fear, pain and suffering was at last OVER? Now it was time for the living, who witnessed this horror, TO SUFFER, and to contemplate what we had just witnessed!
But NO! There's MORE! Enter the world of CHRISTENDOM! You see, Sarah, according to Kennedy and Hagee, when the planes EXPLODED, and the buildings EXPLODED, and the towers COLLAPSED, it was not the END for all those who were 'unbelievers,' IT WAS BUT THE BEGINNING... of an ETERNITY... of EVEN WORSE PAIN, FEAR, TERROR, HORROR, SUFFERING, AND HOPELESSNESS, not for just a few minutes or hours, but for ALL ETERNITY, and Mr. Hagee shouts, "It's JUSTICE!" And Dr. Kennedy shouts, "Hell is FAIR!" And I say, along with the Scriptures, that this teaching FAR EXCEEDS THE DEEPEST INSANITY!!!
According to Christendom's 'eternal torment' theory, the unbelievers in those TWA Jets and twin towers, and the Pentagon will never stop EXPLODING, BURNING, AND BEING CRUSHED BY THE FALLING TOWER. For them it will NEVER reach "ground zero"!!! But for them, this terror will go on and on and on and on and on--according to Kennedy and Hagee, the unbelievers in those planes and towers are right NOW, STILL, BURNING AND SCREAMING AND CLUTCHING THEIR TERRIFIED CHILDREN WHO ARE BEING BURNED AND BLOWN APART FROM THE EXPLODING JET FUEL AND IT WILL NEVER, EVER, STOP. Not in TRILLIONS AND TRILLIONS AND TRILLIONS AND TRILLIONS AND TRILLIONS AND TRILLIONS AND TRILLIONS OF BILLIONS OF QUADRILLIONS OF CENTURIES UPON CENTURIES, add infinitum, ADD NAUSIUM! This teaching is SO SICK, Sarah, no wonder they are causing millions around the world to blaspheme the very NAME OF OUR LOVING CREATOR AND SAVIOUR GOD!!!
These men think that they can flagrantly blaspheme the very Word of God, and none will ever be the wiser, as people send in their millions and millions and millions and millions dollars so that these men can build their kingdoms on earth and live like kings right here and now.
It's SICK, Sarah, it's SICK! And I'm sorry if I offended you. But then again, you said I brought the bad out of you--hey, THAT'S GOOD! I want all the 'bad' taken out of me, that's for sure.
Did you read ALL of my letters to Dr. Kennedy and Pastor Hagee? Did your read my letter to Dr. Kennedy entitled, "What About Those Who Have Never Heard?" That is probably the worst, and the most evil sermon I have ever heard in my short sixty year life! READ IT! And be sure you check EVERY SCRIPTURE I present in answer to this terrible and spurious sermon.
Be sure you read and study the first ten pages of my letter of Pastor Hagee on the Greek "aions" which are translated into English "eternities." IMPOSSIBLE! Be sure to read it. In fact, show it to your pastor. Show it to the greatest scholars you can find. You will learn that we have been lied to by many of the most loved clergymen on earth. You see, Sarah, I love Dr. Kennedy and Pastor Hagee--sure I do--I would do anything to save them from a burning building, for example, even if they would have you believe that people like me are going to LIVE in burning buildings of fire for ALL ETERNITY!
Let me leave you with four scriptures that expose Kr. Kennedy's and Pastor Hagee's unscriptural doctrine of eternal torment:
God WILLS that all mankind be saved (I Tim. 2:4)
Question: Will His will "be done?"
Answer: Thy WILL B-E DONE (Mat. 6:10).
GOD IS LOVE (I John 4:08)
Question: Will God's love fail to save ALL?
Answer: LOVE NEVER FAILS (I Cor. 13:08)
Read the last ten pages of my letter to Pastor Hagee for dozens more Scriptures showing that Jesus Christ really WILL save ALL HUMANITY (all sinners) just as His Word says.
God be with you and bless you, Sarah, as you seek God's will in your life!
Hope this helps Ian.
God bless,
Alex