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=> Off Topic Discussions => Topic started by: Mbwa on January 04, 2009, 02:39:04 PM
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I know this has been discussed here before, but this is very troubling to me. Very. It is of course regarding rock and other modern music. Now, I listen to this stuff. I like it. It is a part of my life, but it is not my life. After starting my journey, though, I started to hear how this is wrong. Many people who say this are people that are shunned here at bible-truths, but they may be right on on that subject. This worried me, of course, that the music I grew up with could be evil. So I started to research. I always knew that if the lyrics were bad, I wouldn't listen to it. That stays true. But now I started to get into the 'beats.' The fact is, modern music is danceable. Not to say it is this evil spell that takes total control of you and makes you dance, but it is more danceable than hymns, or Mozart. Now, I never dance, personally, but again, it is said that dancing is just filling in human's evil sexual desires of the flesh. I read a paper or something by this guy saying how dancing is mentioned in the Bible, but he showed it was no longer suitable for worship. Therefore, dancing is bad. Therefore, rock, jazz, blues, pop, metal, whatever, is bad. And to make things worse, the music I listen to does not have a bad message, but a lot of it is not Christian. So there is no bad message, but no decidedly Godly message, either. Is this bad? Then, even Christian music is subject. I listen to some Christian metal. Now, metal music, I will be honest, can get you pumped. And the vocals are mostly screams, so you can't understand it at first, but I like to look up the lyrics, then once I know them, I can understand, and I hear the message. So the music might still stimulate me, but I know the message is suitable. But now I will head back to the secular music. Once again, it is not bad in it's lyrics, but not Christian. So suppose I do get an urge to dance while listening to a secular song. Is this wrong? I'm sorry for rambling, but I would really appreciate a reply, as this stresses me out every day of every week and I need some guidance. I really appreciate how kind everyone here has been. Thank you.
Mbwa
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I just got finished playing "rock band" with my kids. Some of the lyrics are questionable but my theory is always that God knows my heart. He knows that playing guitar with my kids is a way for me to interact with them and it is also a way to release pent up energy or stress. Harmless fun. So if music and dancing is sinful, then I will probably be guilty all of my days. Although everything is second to God.
Eileen
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Dear Friend (Dog!) I remembered from your other post!
I think personally that you are really missing something in your search for the truth. Remember we are told to "Seek Ye first the Kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things will be added unto you." Matt. 6:33 Now I know that Jesus was speaking about worrying about the things of life actually the necessities. But if you let God lead you in the way He wants you to go these other things will fall away.
You're young and it is hard to see what the course is ahead of you, but God is in control of all things! Just give the things you love over to Him and see what He does with them! Remember the rich young ruler who asked what he must do to be saved? Jesus said sell all you have and give to the poor. This is the same principle you must follow. Whatever keeps you from following Jesus without reservations is what you have to give away. If the things you love are against what God wants for you then when you give them away (to Him) He will not give them back to you. In other words you will lose your love for them. If He gives them back to you you will know when they are nice, but don't consume your life. Rest easy that His yoke is light! There are no burdensome rules to go by, just give what you love to God, you have to really do that anything else is not really giving it to Him. He is faithful and He will lead you. You try giving it to God by just saying, "Ok God I'm giving this to you I want you to do with this what you will. I will accept your will for my life." The more you fill your life with studying the Scriptures and seeking God's will the less important the things of the world will be to you.
Now Get On with your life sweetie!
Get out there and let God set you free from your worries and cares! No one is perfect, but we all want to be!! We stumble and fall and God picks us up and dusts us off! He'll do that for you, too
Now take a hug from me and chase your dreams!
Kathy ;)
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Hi Mbwa,
This goes along similar lines as your question about languages. If you are wise and strong
enough (In The Lord) to partake in and of anything and do it with a pure (not sinning heart)
what is the problem. However if you are looking to dally in anything that you think is wrong
and do it anyway; what does the Scriptures say:
Matthew 15:19:
For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:
Mark 7:14-23:
14-And, again calling near the multitude, he was saying unto them—Hearken to me, all! and understand:
15-Nothing, is there, from without the man, entering into him, which can defile him; but, the things which,
out of the man, come forth, are the things that defile the man.
16-If any man have ears to hear, let him hear. (omitted from rotherhams, weymouth, noyes translations)
17-And, when he entered into a house from the multitudes, his disciples began to question him as to the parable;
18-And he saith unto them—Thus, are, ye also, without discernment? Perceive ye not that, nothing, from without,
entering into the man, can defile him;
19-because it entereth not into his heart, but into his stomach, and, into the draught, is passed—purifying all foods?
20-And he was saying—That which, out of the man, cometh forth, that, defileth the man;
21-For, from within, out of the heart of men, the base designs, come forth,—fornications, thefts,
22-murders, adulteries, covetousnesses, knaveries, deceit, wantonness, an evil eye, profane speaking, foolishness,—
23-all these wicked things, from within, come forth, and defile, the man.
I Corinthians 10:31:
Whether therefore you eat, or drink, or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God.
Colossians 3:17:
and whatever ye do, in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God, the Father, through him.
Colossians 3:23:
Whatever ye do, do it from the heart, as to the Lord, and not to men,
george. :)
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I know this has been discussed here before, but this is very troubling to me. Very. It is of course regarding rock and other modern music. Now, I listen to this stuff. I like it. It is a part of my life, but it is not my life. After starting my journey, though, I started to hear how this is wrong. Many people who say this are people that are shunned here at bible-truths, but they may be right on on that subject.
Why would you say that many people are "shunned" here at B-T's?
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My question also Patrick, I don't know of anyone shunned at BT for listening to Rock music. That is about the only music I listen to now.
Am I going to be shunned? ???
Craig
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Patrick and Craig, that's what I thought he meant at first, but I think he forgot the comma. Many people who say this, are people that are shunned here at bible-truths, Now I think he was saying that we shun these 'church' people, Baptist and other denominations that think dancing and listening to rock music is a sin. Am I right on this Mbwa? And I guess what he said is right as shun means - to avoid deliberately or habitually.
Oh yea I listen to rock music too.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
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I still listen to Rock and other styles myself.
I love dancing, but with two knees in need of replacement, looks like I'm doing a chicken dance....lol... :o
True "Worship" is to obey his Commandments!
In Music, Dance, Driving to Work, Eating, Drinking, & Socializing.....do all with a mind to glorify God!
My 2 cents,
Praying for your Peace in this Issue!
Brenda
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"Many people who say this, are people that are shunned here at bible-truths"
Yes, Kat, that was what I meant. Sorry for the mix-up. And I know shunned sounds harsh. I couldn't come up with a better word. You know what I mean though. Those people who'll judge you like mad after warning against judging others. The ones who use the Word as a source of profit. The ones obsessed with eternal torture.
Anyway, I must say, and I'm being quite honest here, I'm like amazed at how kind everyone is here. Sounds so sugar coated but I'm serious. I really appreciate everyone's efforts to give me some insight. I just hope I can be of help some day instead of asking questions all the time! They told me God was love, and now I believe them. God bless.
Mbwa
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I am breaking the piggybank with this one. :)
It has been said thet music soothes the savage beast. Well i am glad that our mods like music or
we could be done in a flash sometimes. ;D Up to about 2 maybe 3 years ago nothing excited me like
an invitation to a party, and dancing was like an OBE many times for me. In fact for about 25 years
just to be sure there would be a party; we held one at our home 3 or 4 time each year 8). Favourite
dance music was in order of preference: :P Reggae, Punta Rock, Ballroom, Soul, Cumbia, Salsa and
Lambada. I seem to have lost my taste since then along with the alcohol to excess and swivel neck. ::)
Still look once most times, sometimes twice; but no longer feel the compulsion to do something about
it (the look) or can stamp it down much easier now. It seems that what was almost an obsession once
is now no more than some fond memories and interesting experiences to have learned from.
To be able to either sing, dance, play a musical instrument or entertain and help people relax :) for a
short time is a Gift From God. All is of God and as long as we do whatever we do to Edify the brethren
and Glorify Our Lord Jesus Christ; who can lay a charge on anyone.
Mbwa, hopefully you have picked up from these replies what you are looking for.
Philippians 4:4-9
4-Rejoice in the Lord always. Again I say, Rejoice!
5-Let your moderation be known to all men. The Lord is at hand.
6-Do not be anxious about anything, but in everything by prayer and supplication, with thanksgiving,
let your requests be made known to God.
7-And the peace of God which passes all understanding shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.
8-Finally, my brothers, whatever things are true, whatever things are honest, whatever things are right,
whatever things are pure, whatever things are lovely, whatever things are of good report; if there is any
virtue and if there is any praise, think on these things.
9-Do those things which you have also learned and received and heard and seen in me. And the God of
peace shall be with you.
george. ;D
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Hey everyone! Do you realize we all said the same thing in different ways? Cool! We are a pretty diverse group here! My grandsons have such a hard time because the little Baptist school they go to is very strict, and they do condemn rock music & contemporary Christian music. Oh but you know they LOVE Southern Gospel!! WHAT praytell is the difference?? OH, wait Southern Gospel music doesn't use drums, does it? I forgot! Well they have that ANNOYING crescendo at the end of each song! I'm happy to report that my son and his wife have decided to take them out of there and homeschool them :D
Music does calm the savage beast! Just ask Musicman, he'll testify! What do you think keeps him from clobbering those kids in his classes? It's the Music, man!! ;) ;) :D ;) 8) hee hee!
Kathy ;)
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Music is a universal language and everyone feels a “beat” in some way or another and it’s shown from each through different methods. Some by tapping there toes, some by bobbing their head, some by slapping their hands against their leg, etc.
I’ve played southern rock music all my life and also the blues. I still do. My taste has changed considerably by going back to playing bluegrass. But I still “turn it up” when I throw a Skynyrd cd in the player, or when I crank up my amp (which I’ll be doing just that come Thursday when a buddy comes to visit).
I don’t believe for a second that the Lord will be dis-pleased in some way when I toggle that amp once again.
I tap my foot while I play, but I’m really dancing and keeping beat.
It wasn’t so much the music being played, which is God’s gift to me by the way, it was when I turned it into an IDOL of the heart that became the problem.
2Sa 6:5 And David and all the house of Israel were dancing before Jehovah with all instruments of fir wood, with lyres and with harps, and with tambourines, and with sistra, and with cymbals.
Psa 150:5 Praise Him on the sounding cymbals; praise Him with the resounding cymbals.
If you feel like dancing, dance.
Gary
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Amen! That is cool! Love Skynyrd!! ;D
Kathy ;)
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I enjoy music and have been involved in it most of my life. I like all kinds of music. My Husband does too. We love to play it when we have friends over for dinner and have a good social time together.
In His Love,
Marlene
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I just got another revelation from god. He said:
Musicman, you must warn the people about the evil of music.
What? I'm a musician, god.
No, I'm not talking about good music, I'm talking about the garbage that people blast in their cars and neighborhoods.
Wait, so you say that nobody should listen to that stuff?
No, Music Man, that's not what I'm saying. People can listen to what ever they feel like listening to. I'm saying that anyone that forces everyone else to listen to their loud crap is of the devil. Decibal levels should be kept at low levels and that ridiculous electronic beat that pisses you off so much should be answered with their stereo being destroyed with a sledge hammer.
OK, but what if they don't listen to me.
They won't. I'll take care of their inconsiderate behinds. What goes around, comes around.
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Unlike many of my musical friends, I don't have it playing all the time. The great majority of the time, I am listening to the sound of silence. But it's almost always playing in my heart and head, and it's such a blessing when what's in there gets to come out.
I am so glad that God knows our hearts--especially considering that we don't really know them ourselves. It's a blessing when He shows us what's in there--whether that be 'bad' or 'good'. Give Him the rightful authority to tell you what to do with this, and don't build an altar to your current understanding--what Ray teaches as Idols of the heart.
Don't listen to those folks who would be 'shunned' at B-T. They have a form of godliness, but deny the power thereof. How do they do that? Don't they believe God spoke the universe into existence in 6 literal days? Sounds pretty danged powerful to me. They deny the Power of God by insisting that the will of man and angels is stronger and contantly thwarts and frustrates God, leaving Him with no alternative but to cast them away forever. They deny the power of God by not believing that His express purpose for the creation is to bring ALL of mankind into His family by conforming them into the image of His Son. Anybody who would deny the Power of God that way shouldn't be giving lessons on how to live life. That's what I think, anyway. :D
As for me? I'm gonna rock on with my bad self. ;D ;D
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Hi Musicman,
Those are members of you future constituency :o (CIC or VCIC) ??? so be nice about the loud music. ::)
btw, maybe if you promised a boombox in every cruiser that will get you some uncommited voters. :-\
;D LOL ;D
george. ;D
I just got another revelation from god. He said:
Musicman, you must warn the people about the evil of music.
What? I'm a musician, god.
No, I'm not talking about good music, I'm talking about the garbage that people blast in their cars and neighborhoods.
Wait, so you say that nobody should listen to that stuff?
No, Music Man, that's not what I'm saying. People can listen to what ever they feel like listening to. I'm saying that anyone that forces everyone else to listen to their loud crap is of the devil. Decibal levels should be kept at low levels and that ridiculous electronic beat that pisses you off so much should be answered with their stereo being destroyed with a sledge hammer.
OK, but what if they don't listen to me.
They won't. I'll take care of their inconsiderate behinds. What goes around, comes around.
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I know for a fact that God has used music to help me. I am very thankful for it. Music, laughter, and other such blessings I am very thankful for.
We know Jesus is the Rock! He rocks!! So shall we rock! :)
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Did ya'll see that movie Talledega Nights where they were fixin' to bless the food and talking about what they liked to picture Jesus being? One of the guys said he liked to picture Jesus singing lead for Skynard with the angel band playing too! It was so funny! We buck dance here but we do all other kinds too. I have just as much rock, heavy metal as anything else. So as someone said earlier..." I will just keep rocking with my bad self"!
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I have just as much rock, heavy metal as anything else. So as someone said earlier..." I will just keep rocking with my bad self"!
Austrian Death Machine, Five Finger Death Punch, Bullet For My Valentine, Texas Hippie Coalition, SlipKnot, etc..
Let the shunning begin. :)
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oooh, Patrick, I never heard of those bands! :(
Musicman, I'm so glad God watches out for you! He made you a real mellow fellow, didn't he? ;D :o heh, heh, heh! :D
Kathy ;)
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Hi Patrick,
Slipknot is my daughter's favorite band, she even has their S symbol tattoo on her back ??? ::) I'm not to fond of them myself though.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
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Patrick,
If i had a clue maybe you should be shunned; but i don't have a clue so no shunning.
Maybe i should ask Ray for the loan of his Round tu wit and check again. ??? :o ;D
george. ???
I have just as much rock, heavy metal as anything else. So as someone said earlier..." I will just keep rocking with my bad self"!
Austrian Death Machine, Five Finger Death Punch, Bullet For My Valentine, Texas Hippie Coalition, SlipKnot, etc..
Let the shunning begin. :)
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My Opinion, Only.
They strain out the gnat and gulp down the camel. They overlook the far weightier
matters of the Law, like Justice and Mercy. For me it basically boils down to this,
why critique and concern ourselves with every detail of ones Entertainment, including
ones choice of music when our former denominations of Christendom, especially the
Legalistic ones, like my former affiliation, when the important teachings of these groups
are Blasphemous to God, especially Eternal Punishment, of one variety or another.
I've been around those " Perfectionist " type people, they were usually more interested
in portraying an image, as if their Salvation and others depended on it.
Actually, Rock Music is my favorite category of music, my selection of individual songs
has probably improved in it's quality since joining Bible-Truths. I suppose God has
caused me to move in that direction, not because any exertion of pressure from
those overly righteous legalistic minds. I remember sending a Music Video of the
Song, The Way by Fastball and the individual receiving the Video thought it too
sexually suggestive because the Woman was Dancing, she was fully clothed, mind you.
Instead of taking offense, I acquiesced to their wishes determined to refrain from
presenting them with anything they might find offensive, even though it wasn't
to me. I honored their conscience and showed agape this way, even though in the
back of my mind I felt they were being intentionally righteous overmuch. Keep in mind,
I've known these individuals for 15 years.
IMOHP, Kind Regards, Samson.
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Samson, have you ever sucked a gnat down your throat? :o :P :D Nasty little creatures! :P
Round here in the summer you don't want to be walking around outside with your mouth open! ;D
I can understand that "straining at a gnat" thing! ;)
I have never swallowed a camel that I know of ! ;D
Hey, I understand that analogy!
People telling you that God will burn you in hell forever, and yet look at you as if you had lost your marbles when you suggest that one day everyone will be saved! 8)
hmmmmm...
Kathy :D
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Wow! Thank you so much for all your help, people! So rock isn't as bad as they say, eh? Well, just to prove to myself that music is not an obsession, I'm not going to listen to my mp3 player for a week. Yeah, music is nice, but there are more important things in life. Just one question for George (aqr), though:
"Patrick,
If i had a clue maybe you should be shunned; but i don't have a clue so no shunning.
Maybe i should ask Ray for the loan of his Round tu wit and check again. Huh Shocked Grin
george. Huh"
What did you mean by this? "If I had a clue, maybe you should be shunned." Are you saying that rock music is bad, or am I just not fully assimilated to the humor of the board? :) Best regards under God,
Mbwa
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Let me answer for George... :D
He was definitely trying to be funny! He was just kidding! ;)
Humor, hahahaha! ;D ::)
Kathy :D
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That was pure :o and simple ::) humor; ;D thanks for my strong defense kathy. :-*
Mbwa, Someday when you are listening to Ray on Audio 8) you will hear that joke. ;D
george. :P
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Btw,
Who took my darn i mean my last marbles ??? I know i put them by Ninny's last post. :o
Go figure. ::)
george. ;D :-*
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Okay. You had me worried there for a sec. ;D
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George,
I last saw your marbles rolling down the street! ;D
You must believe that one day God will save everyone!! :o
Kathy ;)
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Hi Patrick,
Slipknot is my daughter's favorite band, she even has their S symbol tattoo on her back ??? ::) I'm not to fond of them myself though.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
No tattoo's here.
I'm a fan of Joey Jordison, the drummer for SlipKnot. The guy is amazing!
All of the bands I listed, with the exception of Austrian Death Machine, have outstanding drummers. And, being a drummer myself, that's what I pick up on. They are good to listen to when exercising, IMO.
Austrian Death Machine is a band that incorporates Arnold Schwarzenegger movie lines into their songs; their not really a serious band, but fun to hear.
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Patrick-That is just SOOO funny--I googled Austrian Death Machine. Still laughing at Who is your daddy and what does he do? Get to the choppa.
Thanks so much for the tip! I like that speed metal music every now and then, and what a plus--the lyrics are funny! I'm gonna have fun this Friday at 5:00pm with the intercom at work. Much better than the "bang on these drums all day" song.
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kathy,
So that is what happened, i was wondering why they are round marbles; ??? all the stuff in the
bathroom is flat and square. ;D I have not been able to get a game when i bring out those flat
marbles. ???
On that belief Save All thing; yup that i do, got some good words that say so. ;D 8)
Patrick,
I can tell drummer stories that will either curl or straighten your hair, but the kids are here so nope. :o
george. ;D
George,
I last saw your marbles rolling down the street! ;D
You must believe that one day God will save everyone!! :o
Kathy ;)
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George,
You're so weird! :D I don't even want to know about flat marbles OR drummers!!
;D ;D ;D ::)
Kathy ;)
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Did ya'll see that movie Talledega Nights where they were fixin' to bless the food and talking about what they liked to picture Jesus being? One of the guys said he liked to picture Jesus singing lead for Skynard with the angel band playing too! It was so funny! We buck dance here but we do all other kinds too. I have just as much rock, heavy metal as anything else. So as someone said earlier..." I will just keep rocking with my bad self"!
ok, i might be a little slow here, but what exactly is "buck dancing". do you do it buck naked?
claudia
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I have just as much rock, heavy metal as anything else. So as someone said earlier..." I will just keep rocking with my bad self"!
Austrian Death Machine, Five Finger Death Punch, Bullet For My Valentine, Texas Hippie Coalition, SlipKnot, etc..
Let the shunning begin. :)
patrick,
i would have never guessed you to be a heavy metal fan man. rock yes, but heavy metal, never. nothing against heavy metal at all, just didn't figure it was you. you sly dog you.
claudia
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Btw,
Who took my darn i mean my last marbles ??? I know i put them by Ninny's last post. :o
Go figure. ::)
george. ;D :-*
i promise george, i didn't take your marbles ;D i lost mine too :o or actually i seem to be loosing them, one marble at a time. you're so so silly jorge ::)
all in His love,
claudia
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Hi Patrick,
Slipknot is my daughter's favorite band, she even has their S symbol tattoo on her back ??? ::) I'm not to fond of them myself though.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
No tattoo's here.
I'm a fan of Joey Jordison, the drummer for SlipKnot. The guy is amazing!
All of the bands I listed, with the exception of Austrian Death Machine, have outstanding drummers. And, being a drummer myself, that's what I pick up on. They are good to listen to when exercising, IMO.
Austrian Death Machine is a band that incorporates Arnold Schwarzenegger movie lines into their songs; their not really a serious band, but fun to hear.
hi again patrick,
man, there was so much we didn't talk about when we sat next to each other at the conference! heavy metal AND you are a drummer!!! i've always loved listening to the drum beats. i went to see "stomp" one year here in austin. it was absolutely awesome. do you know what "stomp" is?
claudia
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Claudia, it's my dad and Bob Wills fault. Yes, that Bob Wills (Bob Wills and His Texas Playboys); they were close friends. My brother and I disliked that music so much; a friend turned us on to a new band named The Guess Who (American Woman-No Sugar Tonight) and I never looked back.
I've been playing the drums since 1973.
Never heard of Stomp.
George, I have some stories also, but I keep them between God and myself. ;D
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Patrick,
And so they will stay with me. Btw, my 3rd youngest brother was the Drummer for
the Lord Rhaburn Band or Combo as we called them. This was over 20 years ago,
at that time they were the #1 to #3 Band in The Caribbean consistently.
My claim to music fame was if you could play it i could dance it in tune first time. ;D
That's all you get Kathy. :-* :-X :P
george. ;D
Claudia, it's my dad and Bob Wills fault. Yes, that Bob Wills (Bob Wills and His Texas Playboys); they were close friends. My brother and I disliked that music so much; a friend turned us on to a new band named The Guess Who (American Woman-No Sugar Tonight) and I never looked back.
I've been playing the drums since 1973.
Never heard of Stomp.
George, I have some stories also, but I keep them between God and myself. ;D
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Claudia, it's my dad and Bob Wills fault. Yes, that Bob Wills (Bob Wills and His Texas Playboys); they were close friends. My brother and I disliked that music so much; a friend turned us on to a new band named The Guess Who (American Woman-No Sugar Tonight) and I never looked back.
I've been playing the drums since 1973.
Never heard of Stomp.
George, I have some stories also, but I keep them between God and myself. ;D
patrick,
stomp is a large group of very talented people playing drum beats/rhythms on all kind of things like, well drums of course, but also on garbage cans, pieces of wood, and just about anything you can bang around. they even had one scene where they stomped around with garbage can lids on their feet. it might sound chaotic but it was all very melodic instead. you couldn't help but stomp your feet along with theirs and keep beat with all the drumming they did. i saw it at the paramount theatre here in austin. it was awesome!
claudia
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I don't know what you guys think of omens and such, but I've just lost my mp3 player, and it's kind of freaking me out. Do you think this could be a sign that rock music is in fact not something I should listen to? ??? :-\
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Mbwa,
I think it means you need to get a new mp3 player. ???
george. ;D
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If it does then I hope you don't lose your house keys. :D
Craig
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Oh, Craig you are so funny! I knew there was something special about you besides the Barney Fife persona! ;D :o hee!
Dog...Just get the new mp3 player! 8)
Ok George! I got one for ya! I want to see you dance OUT of tune!!! Heeheehee ;D :D
Oh, wait...You don't drink anymore, right? :D
;) Kathy ;)
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:)
So I'm getting worked up about nothing? It just seemed ominous to me because it was like, right after I asked about music, and somebody said that if God did not want rock in my life then He would take it out, or tell me to, possibly by making me lose my mp3. Is this just coincidence? Thanks again for all your help.
Mbwa
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I thought this was interesting... I was reading Ray's transcripts on Marriage because of my cousin promoting his polygamist lifestyle now... his wife sending out emails to the family saying how its ok to have bisexual relations within the confinements of a plural marriage and the the Bible says it's ok, etc. I never realized how delusional my cousin or his wife were regarding the Bible and what it states is acceptable within the eyes of God and what is not. His wife apparently thinks whatever her lusts of the flesh are, that God says in the Bible its ok... but anyway ... while looking up VA laws I ran across something I found interesting. Not only are there alot of Laws in VA regarding what you can and can not do sexually, there are Laws regarding marriage too. One of the older Laws in VA is that a unrelated Man and woman CANNOT live together unless they are married... actually it says co-habitat.
Ray refers to some guy talking bout marriage and they guy is accusing Ray of saying there are certain laws that he's not going to adhere to, etc and Ray says living together doesnt mean your married no matter what you want to think, and that there is no law that says it’s illegal for two people to live together without having a marriage license when actually in Virginia there is a Law on the books that says it's illegal. So if anything the VA Law proves Ray's points... as if there was any doubt that Ray was right all along and this guy he is referring to is wrong.
Way to go Ray! Just thought I'd share this little tidbit of knowledge.
“I can’t believe you would call that sinful living.
Maybe Babylon is right; we do need to have a physical circumcision and a physical water baptism and a physical wedding ritual etc… etc… etc… everything’s physical, it’s all physical. Perhaps even God’s law is physical and it matters not whether you truly love your wife or not, as long as you got that physical marriage license, you’re good to go. And there is no ‘law of the land’ that says it’s illegal for two people to live together without having a marriage license.” (Ray’s comment - Is there a law that says you can’t do that? That sounds good, I mean the guy is spouting off all this worldly wisdom. Of course I have a little statement in my notes here too: Likewise there’s no ‘law of the land’ that says when two people live together that they are LEGALLY husband and wife, either, is there. [What about common law?] It doesn’t, you can claim it sometimes, but the powers that be do not make you husband and wife. They do not.). “Maybe in the dark ages, and OT but not now, not in the U.S. nor Europe or any other civilized society. Perhaps in the middle east, but they’re still physically stoning people. So I wouldn’t want to follow that ‘law of the land’.”
Marriage by law is not "love" nor does it certify that two people "love" each other. Marriage is something that needs to be properly addressed but I'm afraid that is another tradition that is not going to go away easily. I am quite surprised at how many still adhere to the religious faslehoods related with marriage.
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Mbwa,
Listen, if you think that God is telling you something by your having lost your mp3 player, then take that Idea and think about it for awhile. You know we all believe that God is in control of everything, so you are in a place right now where you will know how well you will do without the music, don't be hasty to replace the mp3 right away. Wait a week or so then if you seem to be ok with it and your not suffering withdrawals then go from there. You have to make up your mind what God is telling you. None of us know your heart, only God knows your heart. So it's back to the beginning for you! You now have a way to hear from God. He's giving you a chance to answer this question yourself.
Worrying is bad for your health! ;D
Kathy ;)
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Thanks Ninny. Actually, around the time I started this thread, I said that I would not listen to my mp3 for a week. I'm still doing fine, I might actually go longer just to prove to myself that I can, but the 'omen' had me worried there. ;D Oh yeah I worry all the time. I know it's bad...
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Alright, I really have been reading the Bible more, and I've tried to focus more on the deeper spiritual aspect of things rather than the outright physical aspects, and I've been pretty content with 'worldly' music, doing my best to let God lead my through my troubles. However, I just heard something from a fundamentalist that's really bugging me, more so now because I believe that I may soon be joining a band/musical project, and maybe there are others here who worry about this same issue. The band is with my friends, we won't be playing spiritual music, but now I can put something to use that I've learned here: although our songs won't necessarily be about God, as a Christian and an artist, the Lord is behind everything I do, whether it is directly about Him or not. Still, here's what's been bugging me from the fundamentalist: he says rock music may be related to paganism. Think about it. The beat of rock music ultimately came from blues/jazz, which was the music of the African slaves in America. They brought over their music from Africa, where they used that beat to dance to animal spirits and such. Isn't there a verse that says "Learn not the ways of the heathen" or something? I know in asking this, I'm relying on humans again, and not God, but I think I could get some help here, especially from musicman, who I hear is the resident.... music man.
Sorry for the trouble. :-[
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Well, dude it seems as though right from the start you have forgotten that Sunday worship and the majority of Christian customs was borrowed from heathenism!! Don't lose your focus, Doggy! ;)
Remember that in order to control the people the church leaders instill fear into their flocks! They want you to believe that everything you do that is against what they teach is a sentence to Hell! FOCUS!
Now, that's all I have to say about that! Like I've said before others here are more eloquent than I am and can put it so much better. ;D
Hugs,
Kathy ;)
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King David danced for the Lord I believed he played a harp also, or maybe it was a flute. ???
I have no idea what the beat was though. :D
Read Psalms 148 and 149.
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Play everything in 3/4, or at least put the accents on the 1's and 3's. It's that back-beat that stirs up the heathen in you.
Also avoid synchopation...it's full of bad juju. If you want to keep people from the evils of dance, play prog rock. On second thought, trying to dance to 13/16 or something that swings from 9/8 to 5/4 would make the audience at least temporarily insane.
I might have a more serious answer for you later, I just wanted to lay the law down right now.
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OH DAVE :o ??? :-\ :-X; i always thought it was 1 an 2 an 3; why miss 2 ???
unless you, don't like bass strumming or steel drums. ::)
george. ;D
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Ninny:
"Well, dude it seems as though right from the start you have forgotten that Sunday worship and the majority of Christian customs was borrowed from heathenism!!"
Yes, but that doesn't necessarily make it okay, does it? ???
Jackie Lee: Thanks for the reply. I have read about that, but the Baptists say that we should no longer dance to the Lord as worship, and even then, the 'beats' were not the same as the pagan's, I think. Not to say they're right, they just worry me...
Play everything in 3/4, or at least put the accents on the 1's and 3's. It's that back-beat that stirs up the heathen in you.
Also avoid synchopation...it's full of bad juju. If you want to keep people from the evils of dance, play prog rock. On second thought, trying to dance to 13/16 or something that swings from 9/8 to 5/4 would make the audience at least temporarily insane.
I might have a more serious answer for you later, I just wanted to lay the law down right now.
;D That reminds of a comment from this guy on youtube. I was watching the video for the Radiohead song 'Paranoid Android,' which has some parts in 7/8, and some changes in tempo and sonic texture, if you will. (pretty weird song). The guy said that the song made him depressed because it was hard to dance to. (I'm glad there's humor here, some people have this stereotypical vision of Christians not having any fun, always serious and gloomy.) And I do like prog, by the way. ;)
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Ok Mbwa, you got me on that! I told you other people would have better answers!
George, 1 & 2 & 3?? Are you listening to Lawrence Welk?? ;D I'm waiting for the bubbles!! ;)
What's music without a back-beat, Dave?? No syncopation?? That would make "Jail House Rock" pretty boring, wouldn't it? :D What about Footloose?
Ok, I realize I am way out of my element here! All these weird time signatures :'( I only understand the simple ones so I shall bow out of this very technical discussion and I will sit back and learn! :o
What do you expect from someone who can only play the radio and the ukulele! ::)
Oh one more thing those hard-to-dance-to 13/16 or the 9/8 to 5/4 thing that might be a cool way freak out a room full of drunks!! ;D (do they really play music with Improper fractions?) ;D ;D ;)
shutting up.....
Kathy ;) :-*
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Ninny & mbwa,
The tempo may change but cadence is what you dance to either 1- 2-- 3--- or 1 - 2 -- 3 --- ???
or a variation with mix and move. 8) The other combinations are all based on 1 an 2 an 3. Talk about
freaking out; try it with a couple steel bottoms (not the shoes) and a bit of white lightening. :P
Oops; just realized that is what stirs up the heathen in Dave. ::)
george. ;D
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OK...here's an ernest attempt at a serious answer, still delivered with a smile on my face (from picturing that guy with the 'dance' comment').
Some stuff--understanding, wisdom, discernment--comes with experience...experience with the Word of God and experience given by the Grace of God from the life we've led under His Sovereignty. That includes EVERYTHING--good and bad. There's scarecely a figure in the Scripture that doesn't give us SOME lesson in how NOT to live.
There isn't always a clear 'commandment' in scripture concerning every decision we're faced with in this life. That's by design! God is building character in us...conforming us to the image of His son. We're not there yet.
You don't seem like the kind of young man who is out every weekend shooting heroin in your eyeballs and shagging prostitutes. None of us want to be the 'cause' of you becoming that guy, I'm sure. But part of what builds the experience you need is taking some wrong steps, so we also don't want to be the ones to deny you that hard won (and most valuable) wisdom by laying down laws for you to follow--like your fundie friend, who I'm sure is hoping to keep you out of Hell. I know from your first post in this thread you already possess some wisdom in this area.
To me, the scripture that covers your life-experience (as I vaguely imagine it via the internet) doesn't have to do with music, dancing or anything related to that. It has to do with maturity in the faith. You're going to get to a point eventually when you don't need to consider all these things...you will KNOW what you need to do. I am pretty sure you're not there yet...otherwise you wouldn't be asking the question. There are issues for all of us that put us right there in the same boat with you. I have no doubt of that.
I typed all that long enough to decide that I am not going to give you 'an answer' until you answer some of mine. OK?
1. Forgetting what your friend said, what do YOU think about this oppurtunity? Is it a good one? Are there dangers involved in it--obvious and clear in your mind?
2. If you learned that what your Fundy friend says is true, would it change your life in any way?
3. If you learned what your Fundy friend said was hogwash, would it change your mind about music?
4. What do you believe the Spirit of God is 'influencing' you to do?
Try those on, if it suits you, and maybe 'we' will have a better handle on what 'wisdom' to offer you in return. After we do, assuming we can, Jesus is still Lord and you still have to decide. You'll decide according to the way God has already foreseen. No circumstance changes from what already exists.
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Mbwa, Dave is onto something there isn't he? Yes, because when we refer back to your original post you were trying to understand what God was trying to tell you. Dave has given you some questions that you can ask yourself. Was the fundamentalist you listened to a friend of yours? I wondered if you maybe had been brought up that way. It does give us something to think about it all comes back to what I told you before you have to literally give it to God and wait for Him to give it back to you or not!
Good advice, Dave. I told him before we aren't going to spoon feed him, but we are willing to help him find the answers he needs. I now will let you help him, man-to-man! I think Mbwa, that you will benefit from what the men on this forum will have to say as they are mature and have walked the road that you are walking now, we all have to live and learn, that is basically what Dave has said. ;)
Praying for your greater understanding :D
Kathy ;)
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oy dave,
what the heck is prog music ???. your "more serious" reply to mbwa was inspiring, even to someone who has no idea what prog music is.
claudia
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What is termed 'progressive' music (rock especially--aka PROG) is characterized by time signatures other than the usual 3/4 and 4/4, or of changes in time signature (frequent or unexpected, in practice) within longer musical phrase.
Looking at Time Signatures, the latter number is the 'length' of the beat at whatever tempo. In 3/4 and 4/4, the last '4' indicates a quarter note. In 7/8, an eighth note. In 13/16, a sixteenth note.
The first number indicates the number of beats per measure. In 3/4, it's 3--3 quarter notes per measure....in 4/4 it's 4--4 quarter notes per measure...in 7/8 it's 7--7 eighth notes per measure.
To add to the confusion, 4/4 (or common) time usually has a 'feel' related to how the beats are divided. You can have an 8-count feel in a 4/4 measure...that's one-and-two-and-three-and-four-and. I can't really describe a 16 count feel, but it exists. "Pushes" are another lesson entirely and have to do with where the accent falls. Accents are the stronger beats in the rythm. As for synchopation, I absolutely can't describe that, but I know when I hear it. ;D And triplets? Oh my...that's like 3 accents occuring over the space of 2 'beats'.
Anyways, as the Catholics would say, "It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing. Do wop Do wop Do Wop Do Wop."
I'm joking with Mbwa about playing prog--but he understands that.
For us oldbies, George Harrison (solo) is a good reference for easily acccessible Prog, as are Kansas, earlier Genesis, and Jethro Tull. It can feel very natural, but it can also be jarring, depending on the intention of the musician and the expectation of the listener.
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Wow,Dave! That's cool 8)
I still have that question about those improper fractions! :D What about time signatures like 9/8 & 5/4? Is that like really fast music? ??? I mean if an 8th note gets one beat and there are 9 beats per measure, oh see I am just too musically illiterate! Where do you find find these kind of time signatures? I guess I just never learned anything since elementary school :( (Oh well I guess this isn't the place for such questions) ;)
We will save that for another thread! :D Anyway, that is still good advice you gave to Mbwa!
Smile!
Kathy :)
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Here are the answers to your questions, Dave. But first I'd like to clear something up: The fundamentalist isn't my friend. I don't even know him/her. I just go on fundamentalist websites sometimes to find out what exactly they think is wrong with rock. Anyway:
1. I'm assuming you mean the band. About that, I am quite excited. One of my friends is quite the musician, it will be fun. Right now though, I am at a very beginner level in my guitar playing, but I like sonic experimentation, so I was just invited to help out with little stuff for now, I guess. Although later I'm sure I will get more involved in music with my friends. I will probably never be a pro 'rock star.' My one friend whom I mentioned earlier, the main man in this project, has been to a few places with his current band, and he'll probably go further with music than I will. However, if we get something going, I'm sure I'd love a little travel to a few shows and stuff. I don't think it's dangerous, considering the type of music we play. Sure, it's 'rock,' but it's softer, kind of strange sounding, 'nerdy' rock, I guess. A kind of indie-rock if you know what I mean. I'm pretty sure my friends are free of drugs and sex and stuff like that, the venues my friend has played at have just been little things like a church hall venue, a little
college place, and a few little festivals devoted to that type of indie music. (Although he did tell me a funny story about one of his shows, where after he performed, a guy wearing all black, leather jackets and stuff, approached him to talk. My friends music is kind of psychadelic, spacey. Like I said, he doesn't do drugs, but people who do are often attracted to this type of music. Anyway the guy said that he's done a bunch of drugs, and that my friend's music was really 'amateur' in that regard. Creepy.)
So no, I don't think it will be dangerous at all, especially since our parents would accompany us to every show we'd happen to play.
2. If I learned that rock was music straight from the devil, harmful to the soul, meant for pagans, then yes, it would. I'll be honest, I'd be quite sad if I heard this. I mean, I've listened to music all my life. If you think about it, it's rather unavoidable. TV jingles could be considered rock, along with theme songs, mainstream radio, music playing in stores. So yeah, it would change my life if you want me to be honest which I'm sure you do.
3. Hmmm... Well, even though their words scare me, like I just said, contemporary music is everywhere. I'm less likely to listen to my mp3 after listening to a Baptist preach against rock, but my family'd think I was crazy if I told them to turn off the car radio because it was evil! I think it'd be quite hard to train myself to hate this stuff. Even when I'm scared of music, like right after I hear that it's evil, I'll still talk with my friends about different bands and odd time signatures [:)] and such.
And finally, about question four: I don't know, and I think that's my problem. But, I did take Ninny's advice from earlier. I 'handed over my music' to God, and I haven't lost interest. I may have done it wrong though, if there is a proper technique. :)
Thanks for the help.
Mbwa
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Hi Mbwa,
Just rest for a while Brother; He Will Teach and Guide you, once you get done trying to do it yourself. :-\
Jesus Christ Is Lord' He Has Sent The Comforter; Rest. :)
george. ;D
And finally, about question four: I don't know, and I think that's my problem. But, I did take Ninny's advice from earlier. I 'handed over my music' to God, and I haven't lost interest. I may have done it wrong though, if there is a proper technique. :)
Thanks for the help.
Mbwa
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Thanks, Mbwa.
As far as I know, there is no 'moral' color given to music in the scripture. As far as I know there is no 'prohibition' on types of music, although you are already aware that music can and does have a pshychological and physical effect on people. It is not ungodly to enjoy music. Parts of the scripture were set to music. King David was a song-writer, though he was by no means and in every way a good example of a godly life. It wasn't his music that made him a 'good' person when he was good. It wasn't his music that made him a 'bad' person when he was bad. What's the saying--music is the soundtrack of our lives? I guess that's kinda true, but for people who make it, it's also a part of the expression of our lives.
There can be evil associated with it, just as there can be evil associated with being a judge, a policeman, a physician, a preacher, or a rag merchant. You know that already. That's for you to navigate by the Grace of God. It won't be in the music, though it might come OUT of it (just not in some juju way).
Always consider the source. Did you know that 93.5% of all statistics are made up on the spot? Sometimes I think a similar percentage of 'christian' ideas are made up on the spot. I don't want to have an argument with him via you over the internet. There's something deeply machavellian wrong with religion and many religious folks. Just consider the source.
Anyways. Don't make music your idol, don't leave off the weightier matters, and don't turn temporary decisions into permanant religions--Jesus is Lord.
Let us know what happens.
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Dave in Tenn. Where did you get that expression ("it ain't got a thing if ain't got that swing") from Catholicism? I don't think people should say things off the cuff about others if they can't prove it. So where?
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Judy that is a line from an old song...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVu1i0gjXmo&feature=related
go give a listen :D
Originally from the 1940's Duke Ellington?
Kathy ;)
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Yeah, Judy it was just a joke.
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Speaking of music and the church:
During the days of the French Revolution, Catholics tried to have pipe organs destroyed. Music was said to be of the devil.
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Oh, o.k. and I did know the song, in my parents business endeavors we always had a juke box and my father was always singing, my friends would come over on Sunday and my father would open the juke box and we could play anything we wanted and dance on the dance floor. We always had free cokes and potato chips and when my mother owned an ice cream shop she would let us make sodas and sundaes. Funny, I just wanted a home like other people. Judy
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Wow! Musicman I didn't know that, very interesting! Hmmm.
Kathy :o
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Music is an intrinsic part of human nature, God put it in all our hearts, you just don't evolve a liking for Nickleback or Frank Sinatra.
So you grow up with whatever, then you see a different beat, then you wrestle with it, then you retrogress. Then you die. So what!? What will be will be. Let it be. xx.
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Hi jeetkunejimi! Have you been in hibernation? haven't heard from you in awhile! I get a little sad when people stay gone for a while around here!
I like your philosophy! ;D
Kathy ;)
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Hi Ninny,
no I'm not hibernating sister, I just speak when I feel the need to, that's all.
I do have a question you may be able to help me with though, do you know what the keys are to press to search Ray's sight? I remember once that someone posted that info but I can't find the post. It was something lkie hold the D key down and press the space bar or something and then the options appoear. If could help with that I'd probably come out of my cave more often.lol.xx.
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Hi Ninny,
no I'm not hibernating sister, I just speak when I feel the need to, that's all.
I do have a question you may be able to help me with though, do you know what the keys are to press to search Ray's sight? I remember once that someone posted that info but I can't find the post. It was something lkie hold the D key down and press the space bar or something and then the options appoear. If could help with that I'd probably come out of my cave more often.lol.xx.
Here you go: http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,5460.0.html
Marques
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This goes back up the thread a bit.... buck dancing is good ole mountain dancing that will stomp a hole through the floor! Another aside and I hope I don't offend her..... have ya'll seen this show 17 and counting. It's about this family that has 17 kids and the Mama is pregnant again! What is up with that???? We can't even feed the 2 of us(literally) right now much less all those young'uns!