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=> Off Topic Discussions => Topic started by: chav on September 01, 2012, 08:06:43 AM
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New movie about the doctrine of eternal torment being released in the US this month.
http://www.hellboundthemovie.com/ (http://www.hellboundthemovie.com/)
An early review
http://www.religiondispatches.org/archive/culture/6326/hell_is_%28for%29_other_people (http://www.religiondispatches.org/archive/culture/6326/hell_is_%28for%29_other_people)
It's being shown in several cities in the US and Canada so some of you might be able to get to see it.
Dave
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Did anyone eventually get to see this?
I just saw the website, I think they will have a download ready by next month. Was wondering if any BT members have seen it yet and have an opinion? The review article Dave posted is interesting.
I'll have to watch it when it goes on the website for download.
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I'd like to see it - Thanks for the post
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i agree the review article dave posted is interesting. would enjoy watching the movie just to see what all is said regarding eternal punishment and the different mindsets.
claudia
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New movie about the doctrine of eternal torment being released in the US this month.
http://www.hellboundthemovie.com/ (http://www.hellboundthemovie.com/)
An early review
http://www.religiondispatches.org/archive/culture/6326/hell_is_%28for%29_other_people (http://www.religiondispatches.org/archive/culture/6326/hell_is_%28for%29_other_people)
It's being shown in several cities in the US and Canada so some of you might be able to get to see it.
Dave
would like to watch it online :)
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Dennis if you see it you'll go to hell.
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Hi
I think they will be releasing the film as a DVD next month.
Dave
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Saw the movie.....was curious that even those whom had some Spiritual concepts of truth lacked using scriptures to back their 'truth' while it gives many ideas and it really seems that many are having their eyes opened beyond their own understanding. The good news is there is no bad news lol.....The Gospel.....for I am convinced by the scriptures that give harmony to all the others as Ray so easily pointed out to me since by that foolishness it was supposed to happen that it sunk into my spirit by the Father's Spirit. Amen.
7 SPIRITUAL KEYS TO UNLOCK SCRIPTURE - L. Ray Smith
"Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural (physical); and afterward that which is SPIRITUAL" (1 Cor. 15:45)
"Now ALL these things happened unto them for examples: and they are written for OUR ADMONITION (to reprove, caution, warn, remind of obligation or duty) upon whom the ends of the world are come" (1 Cor. 10:11)
"Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of an private interpretation (Gk: 'is becoming it's OWN explanation')" (2 Pet. 1:20)
"The words that I speak unto you, they ARE SPIRIT, and they are life" (John 6:63)
"In the mouth of TWO OR THREE WITNESSES shall every word be established" (2 Cor. 13:1 & Rev.11:3)
"...comparing (or: 'matching') SPIRITUAL things with SPIRITUAL" (1 Cor. 2:13)
"Thou art righteous, O Lord, which ARE and WAS and SHALL BE" (Rev. 16:5, also Rev. 4:8 & 11:17)
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Yes, my BT hubby bought it and we watched it tonight. Very good documentary!
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Looking forward to watching this. We have amazon instant download we watch from time to time. May have to get it through that means.
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Just finished watching, I thought that was a very good documentary!
I found it interesting that guys like Rob Bell and the two universalist had the same questions that I believe most of us had wrestled against when dealing with hell. I recommend sharing with anyone who questions hells purpose or existence.
Antaiwan
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This may be good for my dad. He doesn't like to read much, So how about showing Him a movie?
Good idea Antaiwan
I contacted/emailed the maker of the documentary and asked if it was ever going to be released on redbox. He said there are no plans right now (to release to redbox) but it is definitely a possibility in the future. I'm going to have to probably buy it off of Amazon since redbox will take too long!
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The preview alone told me all I needed to know. Will not watch this.
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Hi Perduit and folks,
Not taking sides here (I support data on the BT forum) but I do find it curious that most "religious" folks are not willing to examine the other side of any issues.
For example almost every site that mentions Universalism uses data from an established [creed] rather than asking plain questions and discussing the details. e.g. I'm either a Calvinist or an Arminian, no reasonable half way point or partial answer is to be considered or examined with scripture.
Regarding "hell" and everyone having to face judgment in the court of God's perfect light. We instead insist that if a sinner does not go to hell, then that sinner is getting a FREE pass or a second chance. Refusing to recognize that most never had their first "chance" or first calling into God's light in order to be taught righteousness.
They often say that the person or group in question is so evil that they cannot believe that God would allow them into heaven when they deserve punishment etc.
Of course this misunderstanding is partly due to their believing that every person goes directly to either hell or heaven at death.
My point then is that this movie, as interesting as it may be to those who can view it without being unduly influenced to accept it's teachings if any, is not going to be of any help in converting or providing grace to those who do view it unless and until God calls them and draws them into His family. It is just an interesting pastime and perhaps helpful in demonstrating how blind and deaf all of us are and were until the miracle of God's dragging us into His family.
Personally I would not recommend/share it unless I first viewed it and even then only to a very restricted audience.
Indiana Bob
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I've examined the other side of the "hell" issue; not only from my church days but also in my mind many times and whilst arguing with Christians about it. So it's got nothing to do with refusing to examine the other side of any issue. Had they kept it strictly about "hell" I might have considered it. But they had to get political, and I wont waste my time with falsehoods and myths and get annoyed in the process to boot. "Hell" isn't the only hoax out there.
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Perduit,
Point of clarification.
I didn't mean that you weren't willing to check all sides of an issue.
I was referring to folks who still believe that a person goes to heaven or hell, one or the other at death. Isn't that what is taught by many denomination?
I assume that we on the forum are better informed.
Thanks for understanding
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A quote from one of the trailers: "It's rather amazing to me that more people are not saying 'This can't be right.'"
Reminded me of something Dennis said quite a while back that I've never forgotten and was thinking about just today.
Forgive me if I'm getting it wrong, boss...but as I remember it you said "The 'miracle' isn't that so few can see. The miracle is that so many can't."
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Perduit,
Point of clarification.
I didn't mean that you weren't willing to check all sides of an issue.
I was referring to folks who still believe that a person goes to heaven or hell, one or the other at death. Isn't that what is taught by many denomination?
I assume that we on the forum are better informed.
Thanks for understanding
Hi Bob, I guess I misinterpreted your post then... it's one of the drawbacks of text-based communication. Oh well, no harm no foul then.
I've examined so many sides of so many issues - and as Ray said; the more you study a thing, the more you scrutinize it the more obvious it becomes whether it's true or not. And such is te case with the "hell" thing. The more I looked into it and with an opened unbiased mind, the more I realized that it's not true - a Christian hoax to scare the weak- minded people into converting to their man-made religion so that they can then scam you for your tithe money. That's it, that's all it is - that's what keeps Christianity running. And it's also the reason they twist Scripture to fit with their nonsense, because things like Jesus' own words that no man can come to Him unless The Father drags you to Him - at which point you have no choice but to come because God's dragging is stronger than your resistence (who do you suppose will win that tug of war? Mortal man or God?). God is perfectly capable of bringing about the circumstances in your life which will cause you to have no other choice but to get down on your knees and pray. God made you and He can so easily break you. If I Would have had 'free will' then God would not have been able to interfere because that would then violate my Christian-given 'right' of ' free moral agency' and 'free will.' But God did interfere in my life - I believe this wholeheartedly, and if He hadn't I wouldn't be here. Funny Thing is Christians still insist I have a 'free will' even with Devine Intervention. Me thinks they need a Divine Intervention in their lives so that they might begin using their God-given brains.
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Perduit,
Thanks again for your kind reply. We on the forum certainly do have an extra concern for clarity since most others have greatly differing backgrounds of culture and education. By education I mean types of education rather than not having sufficient education.
Just one more opinion about those who are at this time blinded by God's will.
Quite a few I am sure are not "weak minded", in fact many are very intelligent and well educated in the ways of this world and even in scripture. Also in my personal experience many of the seminary educated pastors use the "hell" approach to leading or guiding their flock with a clear conscience as if they themselves believed it. Hey it works! The money is rolling in!
Some of my long term friends hold the view that it is necessary to have some type of threat expressed in their teaching in order to encourage people to attend and support the "work of God". One of my very respected friends from a church I attended for a few years told me that they had tried the "God is love" approach and it seldom worked to keep the people interested. Imagine that; teaching that God is love just leads to ambivalence in the minds of most people so that they see no need to fellowship with God according to God's will. He's a good master and will not burn us in fire. That is just for evil people and I'm good in my own sight.
Deceived persons by definition do not know that they are deceived.
Hope this helps to clarify my background a little.
Thanks for your interest. "older than dirt" Indiana Bob
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Hi Bob,
Of course the 'God is love' approach doesn't work because the carnal mind [the natural mind of man] is enmity against God, and is not subject to His laws, and neither indeed is it able to [be subject]. So Christian ministers have to avoid that Scripture and contradict it by preaching that man can indeed, of his own "free will" can at any time, with his carnal mind that hates God choose to love God and come to Christ and repent. Now, this isn't even a matter of faulty translations as is the case the non-scriptural words like "hell" and "eternal" or "forever and ever" etc. So unless they never read their Bibles [at which point they would still be quite weak-minded and gullible for having blind faith in their pastor or whatever] they are quite weak-minded if they can't pick up on contradictions. Weak-minded in that area at least.
So unless God drags you to Christ, you will not be able to come. Why? Because the natural mind of man hates God, hates His laws and it cannot of its own "free will" make God a liar by freely choosing of its own "free will" to start loving God and His laws and subject itself to those laws. It is God which works in you both to will and to do of His good pleasure. Do Christians believe that? NO! They most certainly do not. They believe you have "free moral agency" and can just as easily choose to do good as you choose to do evil, or bad, sinful things - like lusting after a beautiful woman - choosing to do good and please God is automatic. I speak as a fool.
So because Christian ministers Despise The Word of God they created this "hell" nonsense in order to scare people with carnal minds into coming to Christ and fake-loving Him in order to escape the unfathomable horror of neverending torture and suffering and pain and misery that awaits them if they don't "FREELY [emphasis mine] come to Christ."
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If you watch the second half of this video (in my favorites on Vevo) you will see a good imitation of being happy and loving God. Except I don't think these people are pretending.
http://www.vevo.com/watch/bill-gloria-gaither/he-touched-me-live/US3271000103 (http://www.vevo.com/watch/bill-gloria-gaither/he-touched-me-live/US3271000103)
I've said this before and I doubt many understand. In some ways I envy the ignorance of some Christians.
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Me too Dennis,
True understanding, when it comes to all, will be such a blessing.
It is so true that God will wipe away ALL tears from EVERY eye. All in God's good time.
Thanks for sharing the thoughts. Indiana Bob
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I've said this before and I doubt many understand. In some ways I envy the ignorance of some Christians.
Not me. I feel incredible joy and freedom in knowing these marvelous truths. There is no real freedom in "blissful ignorance" and I am elated to no longer be there. 8)
René
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Hi Rene,
I see your point and have thought about it too.
However, in the case of my own family, ignorance is better than frustration of trying to live with someone like me IF they are [I was] preaching all the time and are not convincing because the hearer does not have ears to hear or eyes to see.
Our friends and beloved family will be just as happy and pleased to be called as we now are, IN the future when God gives them faith.
What is better, to be an ignorant and happy, productive person contributing to friends and family or frustrated and hating God's Bible every day for His being so demanding and confusing?
I have known quite a few people who only love God because they are accepted into the local church and have come to believe that they are special and without any REAL or SERIOUS sins, just as they are taught.
Of course they think that God is going to torture folks outside their own group, or just burn them up in a few seconds, but they are also taught myths that seem to protect them from God's wrath. They live in a fairy tale world.
WE are so blessed to have answers to our questions that satisfy and build trust/faith.
But humans need to either be given faith OR to be given blindness until the time is right.
Just my view and thanks for your consideration.
Love and hugs, Indiana Bob
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It was nice to be surrounded by 100+ people at a gathering of like minds every week.
But we pay now, they pay later.
Heb 11:35 ... and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection:
Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
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New age movement preaches a no hell story. that your mind is your problem and the way to solve that problem is to stop the mind noise and are world will be a better place. If we put a space between our mind and be still our world will change. there is a lot of problems with this thinking very damnable. It is 2Ti_3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
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I've said this before and I doubt many understand. In some ways I envy the ignorance of some Christians.
Ignorance is bliss, and I too envy the ignorance of christians sometime, my family being one. They use the scripture as a how to guide, pray, pay, stay, and no worries.
If you do anything to upset the applecart then the fur rises, so I just keep quiet. We could all learn to be a little more like them in the good way. We know God has a perfect plan, we should rejoice in this and not worry...be happy. :D
Honestly, we don't even begin to have all the answers but we should know God is working out a perfect plan and we will all be one with Him someday...talk about good news. :)
Craig
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Have you guys ever seen the movie "The Matrix"?
Where Cypher is talking to one of "The Smiths"....
"I tell you what... I know this steak that I am eating is not real... The Matrix is telling my brain that this steak is juicy and delicious."
*takes an enjoyable bite of steak*
"But ignorance is bliss".
I know exactly what you mean Dennis, I have felt at sometimes I envied those that don't know the truth, because it's dang hard to come out of babylon. But now, when I think about that situation I don't envy them so much anymore, instead... I have such a love and compassion for them because they will eventually go through what I've gone through. The Matrix will be unplugged for them soon enough and they will face the reality of the Truth. And we will be there to help them along... I'm so thankful that God has called and chosen us to go through it now. I wouldn't have it any other way!
Even if God was to wipe my mind and stick me back in "The Matrix" (this fake world). I would still go through that life knowing there was something more, something missing. It's in all of us... That God given DESIRE to seek Truth above anything else!
Something is amiss my friends... The world is not right... What is the Matrix? Things don't add up. That is the very same types of questions I asked God before he CRUSHED me to powder. I had NO IDEA what He was about to do in my life.
Yeah.... The Matrix is probably my most favorite movie of all time.
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If you watch the second half of this video (in my favorites on Vevo) you will see a good imitation of being happy and loving God. Except I don't think these people are pretending.
http://www.vevo.com/watch/bill-gloria-gaither/he-touched-me-live/US3271000103 (http://www.vevo.com/watch/bill-gloria-gaither/he-touched-me-live/US3271000103)
I've said this before and I doubt many understand. In some ways I envy the ignorance of some Christians.
If I understand you at all, you mean you envy their BLINDNESS. Maybe I don't understand you either. :)
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If you watch the second half of this video (in my favorites on Vevo) you will see a good imitation of being happy and loving God. Except I don't think these people are pretending.
http://www.vevo.com/watch/bill-gloria-gaither/he-touched-me-live/US3271000103 (http://www.vevo.com/watch/bill-gloria-gaither/he-touched-me-live/US3271000103)
I've said this before and I doubt many understand. In some ways I envy the ignorance of some Christians.
If I understand you at all, you mean you envy their BLINDNESS. Maybe I don't understand you either. :)
Certainly not their blindness. Their ability to be out of touch with reality and not have to think and put very little effort into their spiritual life.
They just go to church and are told what to think (sit there and absorb), sing some emotional songs and go home feeling good, convinced they are on the right track. Then do it all over again next Sunday.
I get PM's and emails all the time from people on this forum (and you see many posts) who cannot overcome and feel guilty. I point out this is what we call repentance and part of what it takes to be in the first resurrection.
Church people do not go through this. All they have to do is write a check and the're all set.
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I certainly put much focus into my spiritual life, however I used to think there was not a religious bone in my body, but it turns out I was just really bad at religion. I have issues with leadership over what seemed to simple issues, and was told I was devisive and asked to leave at one point and at times did not want to come. Ultimately it was the relationships that would keep me coming. I agreed with very little of what was being done, but my house had not totally fallen at that point still.
I thought about how I was not repenting or changing and maybe I was just evil. I believed I could do this! Or that I was just bad and it was my choice so most just let me go and at the end I do not think many missed me. I have a few friends still that attend this congregation and or have left there but by and large my seeing is not accepted by anyone I know. I am not surprised but I still like a fool preach and tell what is revealed to me. Most of this I am convinced is for my own hearing. But I can't shut up about it, as this just pours out of me, and none of it is my own understanding. Although I often find myself saying things Ray would or write about. Alas I find myself saying what the scriptures really say, and using two or three witness' with absolute harmony in something I was bad at before flows and the Spirit still convicts me of guilt. I know God is working to mold me into his image of Christ. Amen
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Are averange Christians really our brothers? Like the ones that are spiritual babes, and carnal still, But still our brothers? They supposedly believe on the true God of the Scriptures, and thanks to them we can say that we are coming out of her (the church system).
On the other side, they worship a very bizarre image of God, or mostly they worship themselves (with their actions). They really believe to be more powerful than God in many aspects of their life's, after all, they chose Him freely; it was up to them and they are making it...
I am not sure if I would call them brothers. What do you guys about this?
Also, If someone very caranal who is interested in becoming a christian would ask me about the bible and God and church, I am not sure if I would recommend him to go to church first, but probably I would, so he can learn some stuff, loose his first love, see the beast reflected on the mirror and then, if God's will; be able to ''come out of her''.
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ps. Even so that ''with more knowledge, there is more sorrow'' Personally I find MY life more exiting and interesting than the boring happy life of an averange christian (with money). Well, this is what I say now, who knows what will be my take on this in a couple decades. What I know is that with more knowledge there is also more capacity for appreciation in general. But I get the point: 'ignorance is bliss' and it's true that they often look so happy on the outside.
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I am not sure if I would call them brothers. What do you guys about this?
Yes I call them brothers, I call the whole human race my brothers. God is perfecting them the same as us, we are all His children. It is true that we can choose our friends but we can't choose our family though. They may be blind, we might not like what they do, they may be prodigal, etc. But we better not turn our backs on them.
Craig
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Well said Craig!
Moises, something that really helped me see "them" as my brothers is look at Joseph and his brothers... what a perfect example of the "church" (the brothers) killing God's elect/Joseph/Christ. They were Joseph's very own brothers. Humankind has one father whether they believe it or not.
It doesn't take someone going "into the church" in order to "come out of the church". Being in "the world" (which really is the church) has enough false doctrine and blasphemy as those in the actual denominational christian world. It's going from carnal fleshy thinking (lust of the flesh, lust of the eyes and pride of life) to Christ's mindset! All will eventually experience this.
Buddists, New agers, Satanists, agnostics, etc.... They are all our brothers and just as carnal thinking as babes in Christ who do not press on into maturity.
Joseph's brothers were tormented until the old man (their father) died. They thought Joseph was going to pay them back for what they did. They lived in torment because of what they believed. Until that old man, carnal way of thinking is put to death, they will live in torment. Joseph said "I'm going to save you" but his brothers DID NOT BELIEVE HIM!
The difference is in believing "Christ and Him cricified for me"... to "I die daily" and "am crucified WITH Christ". I no longer live, but it is Christ who lives in me. Truth lives in me.
God showing me Joseph and his brothers really helped me see that relationship between the elect and "the world". I hope that helped!
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Hmm, interesting. So you say we can do something that is not the will of the Father? I don't think so, plus in the verse quoted they tell Jesus that His earthly family wanted to speak to Him, he says anyone who does the will of the Father is His brother, that covers everyone because the Fathers will is always done.
We all fail to be as rightous as our Lord was, but nobody is against His will; unless of course you believe that man is free to do his own will; and I know you don't believe that.
So yes everyone is my brother, though as an unperfected child of God, I can say there are some I wish were not.
Craig
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Craig, are you mixing up will and purpose? Ray talked about the difference between them in Part A of his free will paper.
"To the question, "…who has resisted His will?" the answer is: EVERYONE! But when properly translated, to the question, "who has resisted His purpose?" the answer is: ABSOLUTELY NO ONE!
God has a will and God has a plan and purpose to reach that will. And no small part of reaching His desired will is to set men against His will, just as He did with Pharaoh. But no one has ever hindered God’s plan and purpose in reaching that goal and stated will. God’s will, will be done in His time."
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Rom 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
Mar 10:18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.
Php 1:18 What then? notwithstanding, every way, whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached; ...
2Th 3:15 Yet count him not as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother.
"There but for the grace of God, go I" - Not a bible quote but true.
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Craig, in the verse JFK posted about who our brothers/brethren are "whoever does the will of My Father," we can see in Luke that Jesus actually goes a little further in that comment to say "these who hear the word of God and DO IT."
Luke 8:21 But He answered and said to them, "My mother and My brothers are these who hear the word of God and do it."
Matt 7 show those that "he who does the will of My Father," are the only ones to enter the kingdom. That narrows who it is that do/obey the Father's will down considerably.
Mat 7:21 "Not everyone who says to Me, "Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.
v. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, "Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?'
v. 23 And then I will declare to them, "I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!'
There is very much in doing/obeying the Father's will as Ray had much to say about in 'What is the Father's will?' http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3720.0.html
Hebrews further explains it is those being prepared for salvation that are brothers or "brethren."
Heb 2:10 For it was fitting for Him, for whom are all things and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons to glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.
v. 11 For both He who sanctifies and those who are being sanctified are all of one, for which reason He is not ashamed to call them brethren,
v. 12 saying:
"I will declare Your name to My brethren;
In the midst of the assembly I will sing praise to You."
mercy, peace and love
Kat
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ahhh yes who is my neighbor? who is my brother? who is my mother and father and sister? Spiritual posts from all of you on this subject.....I often call the ones that no one claims the poor...the homeless....the sick...the orphans and widows....the imprisoned....the mental ill....the weak....the ugly....the forgotten, the ones no one will associate with my friends and family.....I seek the humble the meek....these our Father seeks for he has does and will continue to do so for his Kingdom. The first shall be last, and the last will be first. I am willing to put myself in the lives of the like far and above the things of the flesh. I will boast all the more of my weakness' so that the power of Christ may rest on me. Thy will be done. I really enjoy reading all the input my family has shared on this topic. I am sure there is more to come....the Spirit will glorify the Father in our hearts will be made into his image. This we know to be the great parable and the truth we shall all be changed.
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If we say that all the human race are our brothers, we would lose the difference between ''the many called'', the ''few chosen'' and ''the ones who are not even called (unbelievers)''. I can also understand when somebody says that 'EVERY ONE is our brother'-metaforically; it make sense because God is the creator and we all are part of His creation and because eventually we will be ALL brothers and sisters. However, for the moment, I don't believe that Paul would call some random pagan person a brother.
I am persuaded to believe that most Christian with whatever degree of carnality are my brothers and sisters, even so if they preach Jesus by PRENTENCE (as Dennis quoted it).
''From what we have read, we can clearly see that the Corinthian Church was a congregation of "carnal BELIEVERS." Of course, you can be a believer and yet be carnal. Listen, the entire two billion member Christian congregation around the world ARE BELIEVERS. That is they believe that Jesus is the promised Messiah and Christ, and that there is salvation in Him. That is what makes them believers. From there they fall into all kinds of categories and doctrinal differences, but nonetheless, they are believers regardless of how many of them are "yet carnal."
I believe that the key phrase in all this is to not become "unequally" yoked. Now Paul said with unbelievers, which makes it obviously the wrong thing to do. First you would be "yoked unequally" and to make it worse, to an "unbeliever." Now Paul tells us that this admonition came from him personally under God's inspiration certainly, nonetheless he adds: But to the rest speak I, not the Lord" (I Cor. 7:12).
And so I will take a little liberty myself and suggest that when it comes to marriage (remember Paul is not specifically speaking of marriage here), and say that we should neither become unequally yoked together with BELIEVERS. In other words, we should not become unequally yoked with another, but especially Unbelievers.
The word translated "unbelievers" is apistos and it means "without [Christian] faith, a heathen, incredible, faithless, infidel, unbeliever." It is the same word translated "infidel" in verse 15, although infidel usually signifies something a little stronger than just lacking faith.
We do not need to totally avoid unbelievers, but we are not to become unequally "yoked" to them either. Paul permitted a certain amount of socializing with unbelievers:
1Co 10:27 If any of them that believe not bid you to a feast, and ye be disposed to go; whatsoever is set before you, eat, asking no question for conscience sake.
Probably most of us have some relative in our family that is not a believer, but with whom we could have certain social intercourse with.
For sure Paul is not forbidding interaction with "The many called and the few chosen." However, even there, we should not become unequally YOKED with them, or how can we say we came out of her as God's people (Rev. 18:4).''
Excerpt ''UNEQUALLY YOKED'' by L.Ray Smith
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If mankind is the KINDred of God, then in that sense all people are my brothers and sisters. Since only One is yet 'born again' in resurrection, I have no earthly brothers or sisters in that sense. Some of my 'brothers' are also my enemies, but I know what to 'do' with them. I have 'brothers' in the gospel, and 'others' in "another gospel". I'm not to treat them equally when it comes to my own life and mind.
Having a 'brother' is a relationship, and that relationship takes on many different 'flavors' depending on the people IN it, including me. If I'm going to be a disciple, I have to have the wisdom to know how to live in the relationship with all my 'brothers and sisters', each according to the state of the relationship.
Ray's LOVE lesson is very applicable here.
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3719.0.html
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Ray's LOVE lesson is very applicable here.
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3719.0.html
Here is an excerpt from that lesson:
For the whole world, we have to have this agapao love. But no where does God say we have to phileo them, or love them with affection, like a brotherly love, where we would hug them or give them a kiss.
Jesus said you should not call a brother fool, did Jesus Christ ever call anyone a fool, another contradiction, right?
Mat 5:22 …but whoever shall say to his brother, Fool! shall be liable to hell fire (judgment).
But wait I thought the Lord called the Pharisees fools, twice in chapter 22. Well, they weren’t His brothers. How do we know they weren‘t His brothers? Because He was condemning them, because of their sins. But are they still His brothers? No.
Remember the occasion, where they said, your mother is looking for you, Lord?
Mat 12:46 While he yet talked to the people, behold, his mother and his brethren stood without, desiring to speak with him.
v. 47 Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee.
v. 48 But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren?
v. 49 And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!
v. 50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.
He said, who is My mother, and who’s My brother, who so ever does the will of My Father, that’s My mother and that’s My brother.
Did the Pharisees do the will of His Father? No.
Were they His brother? No.
When He called them a fool, did He sin? No.
Yes, one day we all will be spiritually like-minded, and therefore true brethren, but right now, that is not the case. Jesus is doing a separation work. He is calling out a chosen few who are becoming his "spiritual" brothers now. If you are blessed to be one of them, you will understand and be humbled by this reality. These "spiritual brethren" of Christ are being prepared for a mighty job and the whole world will benefit from this mighty work and then we all will be "One" with God. 8)
René