bible-truths.com/forums
=> General Discussions => Topic started by: mrsnacks on March 07, 2007, 05:25:42 PM
-
I don't hold to the futurist view. I hold to the orthodox preterist view.
My daughter is a senior in high school and she said that they showed her a video in her Government class that showed the plans of implementing everyone getting chip implants. That in the next few years that one cannot buy or sell unless you have this chip. This is all in the works. Plus mandatory vaccinations etc.
This is in her class. So the government is preparing the future generation.
My question is how is the church overall ( who are mainly futurists) going to respond to this ? Will they accept this chip now that it is becoming a reality. I remember many years ago in my prophecy classes when I was a furtuist that christendom was saying "no" to the chip.It was easier to say back then. Now we will see now that the rubber hits the road where people will stand. What do you think ?
-
Do not be concerned Mr.Snacks (I love your ID) :)
For we are well informed of this:
Rev 13:17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
Whether or not the church will accept this mark (chip) is a good question, but if I were a betting man, I would lay odds that they do with open arms. (No pun intended) :)
-
Hello mrsnacks,
With Revelation being a book of symbols and the fact that we are admonished not to be troubled by the things of the world I would not be overly concerned about this.
Also, the traction this has received of late reminds me of the bar code scare a few years back, this was tied to the mark of the beast as well. Read Ray's article on this topic, it should provide some insight.
http://bible-truths.com/lake13.html
Here are some refutations of this urban legend;
http://urbanlegends.about.com/library/bl_mondex_biochip.htm
http://www.snopes.com/politics/business/mondex.asp
His Peace and Wisdom to you,
Joe
-
If I had a dollar for every time someone tried to scare me with this microchip implant business, I'd be rich!
More "new world order conspiracy" nonsense! the "mark of the Beast" is not physical but spiritual. The "beast' is not some "new world order" conspiracy system ruled by some "Illuminati/Jewish/Bolshevik" network of superrich bankers like Rothschild...the beast is anything that feeds our so-called "human free will" that makes us "like the most High" and that drives us farther away from God, where we try to be God. The "powers-that-be" are leading us through the nose with all thse allusions to some kind of "beast system" (including calling some supercomputer in Brussels the "beast computer", and including the notin by some that bar codes have the "666" in their code, and other stuff the power elites make up to feed out fear of this "beast system".)
Just think: the denizens of Mystery Babylon (ie. Christendom) use this conspiracy stuff all the time. I think it was Hal Lindsey who once had a show about whether or not Christians would take implants and thus "take the mark of the Beast". A fringe Christian preacher called Texe Marrs who has written on the "Illuminati Conspiracy" has stated people are already being implanted with these chips so that eventually the "new world order" will "herd" these people into "concentration camps" under Reagan's "Rex 84" program...and another fringe preacher, David J Smith (who believes King Juan Carlos of Spain is the "anti-Christ" and that northern Europeans are "Biblical Israel") says he has seen "white boxcars" with "guillotines" to behead believers (Revelation, of course, talks about saints being beheaded).
Joe you are absolutely correct...we must not worry about the world. Let the world be fearful of these nonsense conspiracies! Just think, 10 years ago, my husband and I (who knew the folks who started that "patriot/militia" "Republic of Texas" movement very very well) were very much caught up in the thick of this stuff to the point where we almost forgot we had two young children to support!
Sorry for the tone of this post...but it irks me that this nonsense is still getting to the body of Christ! :(
Deb aka snorky
-
Just think. My first Bible class after I accepted the Lord was studying under Hal Lindsey. Scared me to death thinking the Great Trib was about to happen.
But there is a lot of truth to this New World Order. But you are right that we are not to be so concerned with the world's events and what is happening around us and to us. God is in control. But the disciples were very concerned during their time and Jesus answered and comforted them didn't He ?
-
Hi mrsnacks
I'm not sure if your Preterist view is this same as this person's below, but I found Ray's reply rather interesting, which you may want to consider:
Quote:
Hi, thanks for having the guts to put this site out there, I can see you're thoughts have made many people angry .But a few out there have been thinking the same things.
Just a comment about your recent article on the world trade towers .Being a preterist, I believe that all old testiment scripture was fulfiled with the comming of Christ to 70AD
I really don't see the need for reading current events into scripture at all .I was a dispensationalist for a long time and God showed me how messed up that was . But as far as "The age to come" aren't there really only two ages? The mosaic and the messianic? isn't the age of the messiah never to end? When paul writes "We are in the last days" Who was he talking to way back then,Us? Didn't the mosaic age end with the distruction of the temple and all it's liniage records in 70 AD? Will there be greater disasters ? Probably. Al Gore's movie made a very convincing case that we could be seeing disasterous storms never before seen as a result of our own stupidity. Could the world end ? One asteroid is all it takes and there's millions of 'em out there.
does it have anything to do with biblical prophesy? For the moment ,I Doubt it.
Dear Eric:
Are you sure you are living on the same earth as I am, Eric? You state, "Being a preterist, I believe that all old testiment scripture was fulfiled with the comming of Christ to 70AD."
"ALL the ends of the world shall remember and turn unto the LORD: AND all the kindredsof the nations SHALL WORSHIP BEFORE THEE" (Psalm 22:27). This happened in 70 AD? I thought that some Mulsims recently flew some planes into the World Trade Center? An act of "worship" toward the God of Israel?
"Yea ALL KINGS shall fall down before Him: ALL NATIONS shall serve Him" (Psalm 72:11). Is that what Titus did in 70 AD? Fall down and worship the God of Israel?
"ALL NATIONS whom Thou has made shall come and WORSHIP befoe Thee, O Lord, and shall GLORIFY THY NAME" (Psalm 86:9). Is that why they Hung Saddam Hussein yesterday? For "glorifying the name of the Lord?"
All these nations and kings have done all these things prophecied by 70 AD? And I'm still in the book of Psalms--there are hundreds more.
God be with you,
Ray
Unquote
If the mark is literal and physical as Christendom declares, where and who is this physical beast that is making or assisting people to receive this mark at this time? For a microchip to be The Mark, we clearly need a Beast that literally sits in the physical temple do we not?
I agree with Ray's teaching, I've seen the beast and it is me, just need to figure out what exactly the spiritual mark could be... any ideas anyone?
God bless.
Andrevan.
-
Hi mrsnacks,
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2807.0.html ------------
Dear Paula:
Think for just a moment. Who would receive this "mark." Why EVERYONE. So therefore, EVERYONE could "buy and sell," couldn't they? This is all RELIGIOUS NONSENSE, Paula. It is the Church that is filling people's heads with this nonsense. The mark is not a literal mark, or tatoo, or imbedded computer chip. Besides, why would we need one on our hand AND ON OUR FOREHEAD? This is all symbolism. Read my "Lake of Fire" series for explanations of many of these symbols.
God be with you,
Ray
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Here is the scripture I think most think of when referring to this mark of the beast.
Rev 14:9 And another angel, a third, followed them, saying with a loud voice, "If anyone worships the beast and its image and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand,
But actually the elect will receive something on their forehead also.
Rev 14:1 Then I looked, and behold, on Mount Zion stood the Lamb, and with him 144,000 who had his name and his Father's name written on their foreheads.
What I beleive this is talking about is what is inside the forehead, our mind. A person is carnal minded and of the world or have the mind of Christ.
This is an excerpt from Ray article 'WHERE IS THE CHURCH THAT JESUS BUILT?' in the Lake of Fire series.
http://bible-truths.com/lake8.html ----------------------------------------
We abide and dwell in Christ and Christ abides and dwells and lives HIS LIFE in us, so that we will "go no more out," till at the consummations of all the ages, "God may be ALL in All" (I Cor. 15:28).
"And I will write upon him the NAME OF MY GOD, and the NAME OF THE CITY of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God: and I will write upon him MY NEW NAME."
That’s CHRIST! These are honors and rewards bestowed upon us by Christ. The 144,000 (12 x 12, complete foundational kingdom of God’s government for the new world) are given the Father’s name in their foreheads (Rev. 14:1 & 22:4). Not a tattoo on the forehead skin, but inside their foreheads, in their hearts and minds.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Phi 2:5 "For let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus,"
Hope this helps.
mercy, peace, and love
Kat
-
Pperfect y'all. Thanks for this, I neede to be refreshed here.
-
Well, it seems I need to clarify my stance taken earlier. :)
The Church will see it as a Mark, because they have not begiven the eyes and ears to understand the truth.
Hence my comment on, do not be concerned. It does not affect us.
I apologize if my post was taken wrongly. :)
Love to all,
Darren
-
Hi Darren,
I'm with you, there is nothing to be concerned about :)
mercy, peace, and love
Kat
-
Could those scriptures in Psalms that Ray told Eric about, be talking about the GWT when all tribes, tongues, nations, kings, etc kneel and praise the Lord??? Why would that be literal?
-
Hi Gena,
I think what Ray was saying, is that Eric was a Preterist and he believed all scripture had already been fulfiled. Ray started reading a few scripture in Psalms that had not yet been fulfiled and there are many more that have not yet been fulfiled, in the rest of the Bible.
And yes that would be the time of the Great White Throne Judgment, because that is when everyone will be purged and cleansed and then will bow before God.
Rom 14:11 For it is written, "As I live, says the Lord, every knee shall bow to Me, and every tongue shall confess to God."
This will happen literally, whether all will actually bow I don't know. It's like saying, get on your knees and pray, you don't have to actually get down on your knees.
I hope this helps :)
mercy, peace, and love
Kat
-
Also Kat,
I believe that Ray said somewhere that if A.D. 70 was the fulfillment of the New Coveanant, why did God inspire John to write the book of Revelations at around 90 A.D. It couldn't be a revelation that had already happened.
Dwight
-
Stupid question probably but are ya'll talking about the Church as being a particular religion, a building or the church that is us as bodies of believers?
-
Not so stupid sister Jennie :)
I refer to the "church" as the collective masses still held the clutches of Babylon. :)
The following Scripture may help a little as explains how Babylon (christendom) will fall and how we the people are commanded to "Get out of Her!"
Rev 18:2 - And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.
[/color]
Rev 18:3 - For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.
[/color]
Rev 18:4 - And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
[/color]
I hope this helps :)
Your brother in Chriist,
Darren
-
I perfer my CHIPs baked , not fried.
;D ;D ;D
Rodger
-
Cute Rodger!!!
;D :D ;D :D ;D
Iris
-
Also Kat,
I believe that Ray said somewhere that if A.D. 70 was the fulfillment of the New Coveanant, why did God inspire John to write the book of Revelations at around 90 A.D. It couldn't be a revelation that had already happened.
Dwight
------------------------
I don't believe that John wrote in 90 A.D. It was written before 70 A.D.
-
I hold to the orthodox preterist view in eschatology. I don't believe as the full preterists believe.
The extent of my eschatologiocal view is this. I look at Matthew 24 in referring to the Great Trib as a past event. Not as Hal Lindsey sees it as something yet to happen.I studied under Lindsey. Jesus said " This generation shall not pass away till all these things be fulfilled. " He was answering the disciple's questions and was referring to that present generation. The destruction of the temple and the judgement upon Israel in 70 A.D. Does it really makes sense that Jesus would talk about something that would occur 2000 years later when the disciples were concerned about that present situation ? There were great famines and wars and earthquakes etc leading up to the terrible events of 70 A.D.
And the result of my present belief is that I am not running off and buying the next prophecy book. I am not concerned about the rapture and escaping life here. It doesn't mean we will not face or are facing tribulations and trials. It just means that the Great trib that Jesus talked about is a past event. Hope this helps.
-
I don't think it matters what view any of us "hold to"... what say the scriptures?
Jesus Christ is the "Word of God."
Revelations 19:10-13
And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said to me, See, do not do it! I am your fellow servant, and of your brothers who have the testimony of Jesus.
Worship God, for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy. And I saw Heaven opened. And behold, a white horse!
And He sitting on him was called Faithful and True. And in righteousness He judges and makes war. And His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head many crowns.
And He had a name written, one that no one knew except Himself. And He had been clothed in a garment dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God
Jesus (The Word of God) is "who is and who was and who is to come" or "is, was and will be."
Revelations 1:8
I am the Alpha and Omega, the Beginning and the Ending, says the Lord, who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.
Revelations 16:5
And I heard the angel of the waters say, Righteous is the Lord, who is, and was, and who will be, because You have judged these things,
The scriptures are not exclusively in the past, nor are they exclusively in the future... both views fall short.
They have been, they are and they will be.
God's Peace.
Josh
-
Hi mrsnacks
I agree with Ray's teaching, I've seen the beast and it is me, just need to figure out what exactly the spiritual mark could be... any ideas anyone?
God bless.
Andrevan.
I studied this a while back and came up with the conclusion that the spiritual mark is the true indwelling of the holy spirit following our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. This is mostly unseen, misinterpreted, and even persecuted by the rest of the humanity engulfed in beast system. Like Ray says, the spirit of God within you hears, sees and follows the Truth, the rest just don't get it YET......
Love, Barbara Walton
-
Hi mrsnacks,
You were speaking about the Matt 24:34.
"This generation shall not pass away till all these things be fulfilled. " He was answering the disciple's questions and was referring to that present generation. The destruction of the temple and the judgement upon Israel in 70 A.D. Does it really makes sense that Jesus would talk about something that would occur 2000 years later when the disciples were concerned about that present situation ? There were great famines and wars and earthquakes etc leading up to the terrible events of 70 A.D.
I was thinking Ray had said something about this very scripture. Ray usually comes from a perspective I had not thought about or I just don't have nearly the depth of understanding that Ray has of the scripture.
Here is the email.
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2073.0.html -----------------------
Great site! I visit quite often. I just have a quick question; I will keep this short since you get so many emails.
In Matthew 24, why does Jesus say:
"Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place."
-Jesus, Matthew 24:34 (NASB)
It seems at first glance (and second, third, etc.) that Jesus said that certain things would take place in his generation that do not seem to have taken place. What is the meaning of this?
I do not need an immediate reply. I do not wish to cause stress by adding to your list of emails, I just don't know who else to ask. I've looked into some possible explanations, but I haven't been satisfied. You have a way with explaining mysteries.
Austin
Dear Austin:
Like most "quick questions," your's also requires a not so quick answer. In many prophecies there is a dual fulfillment. Neither Preterists nor Futurists seem to understand this. Some things prophesied in Matt. 24 and 25 were to take place in the near future, in THAT generation. Jesus was crucified somewhere in the 30's AD and Jerusalem was indeed destroyed by 70 AD.
However, when Jesus said that "THIS generation" in Matt. 24:34, He did not mean "THAT generation" living at that time. Notice the words a few verses before: "So likewise ye [whoever the 'ye' will be when these things happen], when ye shall see ALL THESE THINGS, know that it is near, even at the doors" (Verse 33).
WHAT "all THESE things?" Why all the things that he mentioned leading up to this point. And included are the "Sign of the Son of man in heaven," and the resurrection and gathering of the saints, etc. (Verse 30). Now THAT did not happen back in the first century AD. It is yet future. But the future generation who sees "ALL these things," that generation living at THAT time, shall not pass untall all these things be fulfilled, including the coming of our Lord.
God be with you,
Ray
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
mercy, peace, and love
Kat
-
Those who deny that "this generation" refers to the generation to whom Jesus was speaking in the Matthew 24 context must maintain that "this generation" there means something different from the way it is used in every other place in Matthew and the rest of the NT. Matthew 23:36 clearly refers to the Pharisees and their associates . Why should we interpret "this generation" in Matthew 24:34 in a way different from 23:36 since Jesus is answering His disciple's questions regarding His statement in Matthew 23:36 that their house ~ the temple ~ is being left to them desolate ? The usual rejoinder is "All of Matthew 24 could not have been fulfilled during the lifetime of the apostles. There must be a future fulfillment even though 'this generation' seems to refer to those who lived between AD30 and 70."
But this is not the way we should interpret Scripture. If Jesus had said that all the events prior to Matthew 24:34 would occur before the contemporary generation passed away, then we must take Him at His word ~ even if we still hold to a future "fulfillment" ~ the primary fulfillment must be within the scope given by the Prophet. Dispensationalists insist on literalism. Why not in this instance? If "this generation" is taken literally, all of the predictions were to take place within the lifespan of those living at that time. The integrity of the Bible is at stake in the discussion of the Biblical meaning of "this generation."
-
The intergrity of the scriptures is not "at stake" or dependent on any discussion, conversation or argument of man.
God's Peace.
Josh
-
The intergrity of the scriptures is not "at stake" or dependent on any discussion, conversation or argument of man.
God's Peace.
Josh
------------------------------------------------------
I didn't say that. I agree. The intergrity of the scriptures is at stake by what the scriptures say.
-
I don't think it matters what view any of us "hold to"... what say the scriptures?
Jesus Christ is the "Word of God."
Revelations 19:10-13
And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said to me, See, do not do it! I am your fellow servant, and of your brothers who have the testimony of Jesus.
Worship God, for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy. And I saw Heaven opened. And behold, a white horse!
And He sitting on him was called Faithful and True. And in righteousness He judges and makes war. And His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head many crowns.
And He had a name written, one that no one knew except Himself. And He had been clothed in a garment dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God
Jesus (The Word of God) is "who is and who was and who is to come" or "is, was and will be."
Revelations 1:8
I am the Alpha and Omega, the Beginning and the Ending, says the Lord, who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.
Revelations 16:5
And I heard the angel of the waters say, Righteous is the Lord, who is, and was, and who will be, because You have judged these things,
The scriptures are not exclusively in the past, nor are they exclusively in the future... both views fall short.
They have been, they are and they will be.
God's Peace.
Josh
-------------------------------------------------
Some scriptures are in the past. Past events that have been fulfilled. Some are future. Death, the last enemy, is yet to be defeated. The Old Covenant has passed away. We are under the New Convenant.I once was in darkness now I am a new creation. There are many examples.
-
Hi mrsnacks
I agree with Ray's teaching, I've seen the beast and it is me, just need to figure out what exactly the spiritual mark could be... any ideas anyone?
God bless.
Andrevan.
I studied this a while back and came up with the conclusion that the spiritual mark is the true indwelling of the holy spirit following our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. This is mostly unseen, misinterpreted, and even persecuted by the rest of the humanity engulfed in beast system. Like Ray says, the spirit of God within you hears, sees and follows the Truth, the rest just don't get it YET......
Love, Barbara Walton
Thanks Barbara. I read your post and saw something that got me thinkiing in a different direction! So the symbolic spiritual mark is God's Spirit, as I understand from what you said. So the mark of the beast is a good thing? I've never thought of it like this, the rot of Christendom is lingering, like a hangover!
If the beast is us, mankind, then the elect are also this beast but they recognize it and accept the mark before the others? Someone pull me in line if I'm wandering off the path here. ;D
I'm finding this mark of the beast thing interesting. As Ray explained that the beast is us, then I really want to know more about this mark that I take.
I look forward to hearing more on this, Ray may have it in one of his up and coming papers, but I'm interested in other's opinions.
With Christendom, the whole of Revelation is all doom and gloom.
God's peace be with you all.
Andrevan.
-
If this is the Mark of the Beast I plan not to accept it!
If the video says you can not buy or sell without this chip then it must be the Mark of the Beast!
I'm not going to worry about this chip implant because it is a curse no matter what form the Mark of the Beast comes in I'm not taking it if it
be a Chip, a Barcode stamped on the Hand or Forehead, a RFID Chip and/or other forms claimed to be or become the Mark of the Beast.
-
^^ Me too. I'll eat grubs and wear grass skirts before anyone sticks me with a chip.
-
that was funny Kent ;D ;D ;D
...that would take you all the way back to the graden of eaten (Eden) like what Adam wore (or was that Eve... ;)) grass skirts, fig leaves...it's all pretty much the same ;D ::)
-
^^ Me too. I'll eat grubs and wear grass skirts before anyone sticks me with a chip.
----------------------------------------------
The only chip I will let them stick me with is a potato chip.
-
What I haven't figured out yet is no one can buy or sell without the mark?
So to be able to recieve a paycheck does one have to have an identifying mark?
It seems so.
I would appreciate anyone that would explain and enlighten me.
-
What I haven't figured out yet is no one can buy or sell without the mark?
So to be able to recieve a paycheck does one have to have an identifying mark?
It seems so.
I would appreciate anyone that would explain and enlighten me.
Hi Jackie Lee,
Remember the Book of Revelation is a book of symbols, here is a portion from; Lake of Fire Part 1
http://bible-truths.com/lake1.html
Beginning in verse twelve John starts to tell us what he sees and heard,
"And I turned to see the voice that spake with me ... his eyes were as a flame of fire, and his feet like unto fine brass ... And he had in his right hand seven stars and out of his mouth went a sharp two-edged sword..."
NONE of what I underlined is literal. Have you ever "seen a voice?" All these things are symbols that stand for other things. And God immediately gives us proof positive of this in verse 20,
"The mystery [this is not literal--it was a mystery until God tells us that one thing really means or represents another and DIFFERENT THING] of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars ARE THE ANGELS OF THE SEVEN CHURCHES: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest ARE THE SEVEN CHURCHES."
The stars are not literal and the candlesticks are not literal. In the first 20 verses of Revelation we can find eleven statements that are not literal, but rather symbolic. They represent truths that are presented in symbols. The literal language is not the literal truth being presented. The statements themselves do not teach us the truth OF the statements. We must look elsewhere in the Scriptures for the interpretation.
Now chapter one was pretty easy as God told us just what some of those symbols represented. But there are dozens and dozens of more symbols in this book of Revelation that are not explained in the immediate verses that follow. How shall we understand all those symbols. First of all, without the spirit of God, the answer is we will never understand these symbols. But guided by God’s spirit, God can show us in other places in His Word what these mysterious symbols represent. It is God Who provides us with "ears to hear and eyes to see."
Now look at chapter two:
Verse 5, Will God literally punish the church of Ephesus by removing a literal candlestick? NO! Removing a literal candlestick would be no great loss to anyone. But from what we learned in verse 20 of chapter one, the candlestick IS one of the churches . So Christ is threatening to REMOVE THE WHOLE CHURCH, not some piece of furniture or candlestick from the building of a church.
Verse 7, Is the tree of life a literal tree that one literally eats?
Verse 9, Was the church in Smyrna literally in poverty and literally rich at the same time? Does "synagogue of Satan" mean a literal synagogue where Satan has a Rabbi teaching the Law to a congregation every Sabbath day?
Verse 13, Is a name something that one literally holds fast to with one’s hands?
Verse 16, Will Christ literally do battle by using a literal sword which He literally keeps in His mouth? Or do we not read in another place in God’s word that this "sword" IS God’s Word? (Heb. 4:12).
Verse 17, Will Christ reward the faithful with a literal little white stone? Can’t we see that the stone and the name written in it represents something else? Something of much greater value?
Verse 20, Was the harlot Jezebel literally in the Thyatira church? Literal Jezebel died CENTURIES before this book was written by John. Jezebel in the physical represents or symbolizes a SPIRITUAL condition in the church of Thyatira.
Verse 22, Will Christ literally throw literal Jezebel into a literal bed where she will literally commit adultery with literal men?
Verse 23, Will Christ kill literal children of the literal harlot, Jezebel?
Verse 27, Will the saints beat the nations with a literal rod of iron into literal small pieces like broken pottery?
Verse 28, Will Christ give the literal morning star to His saints? Where would they put it? What would they do with it?
Chapter 3:1, Was the Sardis church literally alive and literally dead at the same time?
Verse 4, Were members of the Sardis congregation wearing literally soiled clothing?
Verse 7, Is there literally a metal key of David that is needed to open a literal lock?
Verse 12, Will Christ literally turn people into stone pillars in the temple?
Verse 16, Will Christ literally spit the church of Laodocia out of His mouth?
Verse 17, Were the members of the Laodocian church literally poor and literally blind and literally naked without clothing to wear? Are there not other Scriptures that tell us what it means to be SPIRITUALLY "poor, blind, and naked?"
Verse 18, Did Christ try to sell Laodocia literal gold? What would they do with the gold? What, pray tell, would Christ do with the money?
Verse 20, Does Christ literally knock at the doors of our homes and then come in and eat a literal home cooked meal and pecan pie with us?
Is it necessary for me to go through this entire book verse by verse before we can fully realize that this book is written in figurative, symbolic, and metaphoric language?
Let’s look at just a few more:
Chapter 4, Was a literal trumpet "talking" with John?
Chapter 5, Is Jesus Christ literally a "Lion," an "animal?"
Chapter 6, Are these literal "horses?" Do the literal stars of heaven fall on the earth? The smallest known stars are a million times larger than the earth.
Chapter 7, Were angels literally holding back four "winds" on four literal "corners" of the earth? I thought the earth is round without corners? Can one literally wash his clothes "white" in red "blood?"
Chapter 8, Will an angel cast a literal mountain burning with fire into the sea?
Chapter 9, During the fifth trumpet will it literally be impossible for mortal men to die?
Will there be literal locusts shaped like "horses?" Locusts that literally have "hair like a woman, teeth like a lion, and breastplates of iron?" LOCUSTS with breastplates of "iron?"
Chapter 10, Did John eat a literal book? That was literally sweet in his taste buds, but literally bitter in his stomach? Why would anyone "eat" a literal book?
Chapter 11, Are God’s two witnesses that prophecy, literally two olive trees and two candlesticks? But if we study Zechariah 4 we can determine what is meant by "two witnesses."
Chapter 12, Will there literally be a pregnant woman "clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars?" Was this same woman able to literally "fly into the wilderness with wings of an eagle?"
Chapter 13, Will there be a literal lamb that will speak like a dragon? Just how do dragons "speak" anyhow?
Will people be literally tattooed with marks (bar codes, swastikas, Social Security numbers, implanted with computer chips or one of a hundred unscriptural marks being suggested by fundamentalist prophets) in their hands and on their foreheads so that men cannot buy or sell ice cream or automobiles without these marks? Self-appointed prophets of doom haven’t a clue as to what this mark of the beast really is or the number of his name. I have already been bared from buying and selling recently because I refuse to brandish this "mark of the beast"!
Chapter 14, Does Babylon cause all nations to literally drink of the wine of the literal wrath of her fornication? I thought wine came from grapes not wrath (of course there is that famous novel, The Grapes of Wrath).
Chapter 15, Are the seven last global plagues and catastrophes really contained in seven literal tiny gold vials or bottles?
Chapter 16, Is Jesus Christ going to return to this earth as a literal "thief"? Will every island and mountain on earth literally disappear?
Chapter 17, Will there really be a women who will ride a literal scarlet coloured beast, having seven heads and ten horns. Can whole nations literally fornicate with a harlot? But here once more in this chapter God does reveal to us who this beast is and what the symbolic horns represent which again proves that ALL OF THESE THINGS are not literal but symbolic and represent things other than what is being described.
Chapter 18, Will the entire social, political, and economic system of the world literally collapse in just one hour because one literal city (Babylon) is destroyed?
Chapter 19, Will a literal prostitute "corrupt" the entire earth? Will a literal "lamb" marry a literal "wife?" Will the King of the universe really wear clothing dripping with literal "blood?" Is God’s wrath a literal "winepress?" Will literal armies of heaven follow Christ to earth riding on literal "flying horses?" No, NONE of these things are literal!
Any theologian or preacher on international television would be laughed to scorn if he were to preach a sermon trying to prove that all of the above Scriptures are to be taken absolutely literally. Such a sermon would be seen as foolish by nearly everyone. No educated man in the Word of God would ever dare to present anything so STUPID!
And yet ... and YET, when we come to verse 20: will a literal beast and a literal false prophet be cast alive into a literal "lake of fire burning with brimstone?" How do these same theologians and preachers answer? They answer: "Yes, of course they will be thrown into a literal lake of fire, because THIS IS LITERAL."
Chapter 20, Will the devil, the false prophet and the beast be cast into a literal lake of fire and be literally tortured day and night "FOR EVER AND EVER"?
And will all those not found written in the book of life be cast into a literal lake of fire? Answer: "Yes, THIS TOO IS LITERAL, ABSOLUTELY LITERAL," shouts our fundamentalist friends once more.
Chapter 21, And will the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, be cast into a literal "lake of fire burning with brimstone?" "Yes, Yes, A THOUSAND TIMES YES, THIS IS SOOO LITERAL, ABSOLUTELY TOTALLY LITERAL" shouts every red-blooded fundamentalist worth his salt!
Amazing. Absolutely amazing--the power of the carnal mind to self-deceive. Why are fundamentalists totally sure that these verses on a lake of fire are literal? Well, of course, they aren't sure; they just pretend to be sure. They desire with their whole heart and being that this lake of fire is real fire. Why? Because the eternal torture of billions of men and women and boys and girls in some fabled hellhole doesn’t "diminish" them one iota! They want people who don’t believe as they believe to have their flesh barbecued over fire and brimstone for all eternity. The very idea gives them great joy. And it makes them proud. They have no love for sinners as God does. They hate sinners. They hate unbelievers. They love only themselves. They pronounce CURSES on me for quoting Scriptures that show God will save everyone. They highly disapprove of God being the saviour of the whole world. The won’t hear of it; they won’t have it! They don’t approve of a God Who would save everyone by bringing them to repentance, and purging them, and turning their hearts to God. If God were to save everyone through the purging of his SPIRITUAL FIRE, then they could not wag their fingers at all these people sizzling and popping like bacon in a hit skillet saying, "I told you so, I told you so..." for all eternity. Hussein and Bin Laden are not the only ones out there with depraved religious minds.
God did not write nineteen whole chapters of Revelation giving us symbol after symbol and metaphor after metaphor, and then in chapter 20 switch to writing in literal language with literal meanings.
The book of Revelation was "signified" by the use of signs and symbols. Signs and symbols always represent or mean something other than the sign or symbol itself. We are all familiar with symbols and signs so that we should never be confused as to what a sign or symbol is or is not. A red and white striped barber’s pole is not a barber shop, neither is it a barber, but it is a sign or symbol that immediately conveys to our understanding what it represents--namely a barber shop with a barber.
There are many more Scriptures that will prove that this lake of fire has a much more benevolent purpose than barbecuing human flesh for all eternity for the sheer sick and depraved entertainment of Christian Fundamentalists.
Be it known however, that the lake of fire and the second death DO INDEED picture something spiritual that relates to or has some properties of, LITERAL FIRE and LITERAL DEATH. Without some similar properties, the metaphor would be meaningless. I have read some extremely complex definitions of a metaphor which were totally wrong. A metaphor is where one thing is said to BE something else. Here’s a Scriptural example: "All flesh is grass" (I Pet. 1:24). That’s simple enough. Now then, is that statement by Peter true? Yes, of course, it is true. Is it literally true? No, it is not literally true. Then how do we know for sure what there is ABOUT this metaphor that is true? If a metaphor is not literally true, how is it true at all?
-
Hello again Jackie,
Here is a portion from Lake of Fire Part 8; http://bible-truths.com/lake8.html
JESUS GOES TO CHURCH
Perhaps you never thought of Jesus going to Church, but He did. The first time that something is mentioned in Scripture, it is often very instructive. Although it was the habit of Jesus to attend local synagogues during His life, the first time the Scriptures mention Jesus going to the temple as a adult is in Matt. 21:12:
"And they came to Jerusalem: and Jesus went into the temple, and began to CAST OUT them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves; And would not suffer that any man should carry any vessel through the temple. And He taught, saying unto them, ‘Is it not written, My house shall be called of all nations the House of Prayer? But ye have made it a DEN OF THIEVES [Gk: ‘burglars’ cave’].’ And the SCRIBES and CHIEF PRIESTS heard it, and sought how they might DESTROY HIM: for they feared Him, because all the people was astonished at his doctrine" (Mark 11:15-18).
What a revelation of the church of God we have in these three verses!
Jesus was so angry with the leaders at the temple for turning it into a money-making flea market, that he:
"cast out them that sold and bought in the temple"
"overthrew the tables of the moneychangers and seats of them that sold doves"
"suffered no one to carry vessels [of merchandise] through the temple"
Jesus said that they "made the House of Prayer a DEN OF THIEVES"!
Say, did you notice that they were buying and selling "…in the Temple?" Do you think that just maybe this has anything to do with the fact that,
"…NO MAN might BUY OR SELL, save he that had the MARK OR THE NAME OF THE BEAST, or the NUMBER OF HIS NAME" (Rev. 13:17)?
We will cover the Mark of the Beast in a later installment.
But this is all ancient history, isn’t it? The modern Church of God has not been turned into a "den of thieves" has it? Were the High priests and Scribes, going against the law of either their own religious beliefs or of Rome? No. No, they weren’t. So they were not "thieves" according to the Church or the Roman government. But were they thieves, nonetheless? Yes, they were, Jesus Christ SAID THEY WERE THIEVES, a whole "DEN OF THIEVES"!
At least the modern Church of God is not a "den of thieves," is it? I’m sure not all; you can be the judge:
One of the major factors in the Reformation was the disdain over the practice of the Church selling INDULGENCES. The American Heritage College Dictionary, "indulgence n. 6. Roman Catholic Church The remission of temporal punishment still due for a sin that has been sacramentally absolved."
Make no mistake about it:
"For the love of money is the [Gk. ‘a’] root of all evil" (I Tim. 6:10).
Before the Reformation, it was thought that one could practically "buy" one’s salvation.
Jesus "CAST OUT them that sold and bought in the temple." Is there, "buying and selling" going on in the Church today? Excuse me…does a cat have a tail?
Now don’t think that I am against money. Jesus Himself used money in his ministry (but he never sold in the temple, neither did He ever collect a penny in tithe money).
I couldn’t count the number of e-mails I have received in response to my article on tithing being unscriptural under the new covenant, in which they ask how they should pay their church utility bill if the people don’t tithe? I tell them to pay it with a check backed by money in the bank. All those interested in paying the utility bill should contribute voluntary offerings of money for that expense. This is not difficult. But no one under the New Covenant is obligated by law or conscience to pay ten percent of their salaries to a church! People under the Old Covenant, likewise, were not under law to pay ten percent of their salaries to the Levites. And, Yes, they did have money back then.
UNSCRUPULOUS PEDDLERS OF GOD’S WORD
After Jesus THREW OUT those who "bought and sold" in the temple, did they ever return? Not only did they return to the temple after Christ’s resurrection, but they also came into the very Church, which Jesus said HE WOULD BUILD. The whole temple system in Jerusalem was so utterly corrupt that they corrupted the people of Jerusalem and Judea as well.
In and around 70 AD the armies of Titus surrounded Jerusalem and there was an awful slaughter. You can read of these horrible events in the writings of Josephus. But even before the temple with its corrupt religious system was demolished, it had already spread its ugly tentacles into the Church which Jesus built.
-
Thanks for coming to my rescue I have lots of reading and studing to do.
I am really glad this chip is not literal, Like I said though I really need to take some quiet time and study and hoping My ears and eyes are opened.
Thanks again, Jackie
-
"…NO MAN might BUY OR SELL, save he that had the MARK OR THE NAME OF THE BEAST, or the NUMBER OF HIS NAME" (Rev. 13:17)?
If this is talking about preachers, then what are they buying?
Man
G5100
τίς
tis
tis
An enclitic indefinite pronoun; some or any person or object: - a (kind of), any (man, thing, thing at all), certain (thing), divers, he (every) man, one (X thing), ought, + partly, some (man, -body, -thing, -what), (+ that no-) thing, what (-soever), X wherewith, whom [-soever], whose ([-soever]).
This is a generic name for a man, not something more specific regarding those wolves in sheeps clothing that sell deception.
Here it is, KJV
17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.
ASV
17 and that no man should be able to buy or to sell, save he that hath the mark, [even] the name of the beast or the number of his name.
18 Here is wisdom. He that hath understanding, let him count the number of the beast; for it is the number of a man: and his number is Six hundred and sixty and six.
It's the number if A man, it doesnt use the plural.
It uses the words "buy" and "sell", the same way we use those words.
I am not convinced. Not by a long shot.
But I could be wrong. I will not, however, put all my eggs in this basket and let myself get chipped, numbered,
get a tatoo, take a loyalty oath, worship a man, or any such thing just because someone said that it only deals with church corruption.
-
As I understand it, all of mankind has the mark of the beast:
Rev 13:18
Here is wisdom. Let him who has a mind calculate the number of the wild beast, for it is the number of mankind, and its number is six hundred sixty-six."
In the original greek the article "a" is absent, and what has been translated as "man" in the KJV is "anthropos" and Thayer includes this in his definition:
1a) generically, to include all human individuals
From what I see, carnal man is the beast and carries this mark. Those that are either buying or selling books or countless merchandise pertaining to the word of God, especially for the supposed purpose of teaching or learning truths are proving themselves to be still in this carnal beast state. If you think you need to buy truth from another man, you are the beast.
Jesus said:
Rev 3:18
I counsel you to buy from Me gold purified by fire, so that you may be rich; and white clothing, so that you may be clothed, and so that the shame of your nakedness does not appear. And anoint your eyes with eye salve, so that you may see.
Rev 21:6
To him who thirsts I will give of the fountain of the Water of Life freely.
Seems to me, what Jesus is selling is free...we can't buy it with money.
2Co 2:17
For we are not as the majority, who are peddling the word of God, but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God in Christ, are we speaking."
This word "peddling" is defined by Thayer as:
1) to be a retailer, to peddle
2) to make money by selling anything
2a) to get sordid gain by dealing in anything, to do a thing for base gain
2b) to trade in the word of God
2b1) to try to get base gain by teaching divine truth
2c) to corrupt, to adulterate
2c1) peddlers were in the habit of adulterating their commodities for the sake of gain
I distrust anyone who is trying to sell me their supposed "revelations of truth" from God.
Mat 10:8
You have received freely, freely give.
I do not think any Elect of God are out there writing material or giving "seminars" and making money off of it. (Most people probably wouldn't want to buy what the Elect have to say anyways...they want smooth words to tickle their ears...)
Likewise, I think the Elect are not "buying" (believing or buying literally) anything that churchianity is selling. They have all but given up looking for truth in Christian bookstores and churches.....
I see it as part of the process of coming out of Babylon.
Not saying of course that by giving away your knowledge of the scripture you are for certain an Elect of God....but it likely is a huge clue...and at the very least, it's not a sign of the beast...
Peace to you,
Diana
-
(Rev 13:17) And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
This is not talking about buying or selling at Wal-Mart. This is spiritual. What did Christ said in Rev 3:18?
Rev 3:18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire(spiritual baptism that we all have to go through), that thou mayest be rich(spiritually rich) ; and white raiment(spiritual righteousness), that thou mayest be clothed(spiritual truths), and that the shame of thy nakedness(the flesh; carnal) do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eye salve(to be anointed the Holy Spirit, which is His spiritual truth) ,that thou mayest see.
What else did Christ say in Mat 10:39 and 16:25?
Mat 10:39 He that findeth his life shall lose(destroy) it: and he that loseth(destroys) his life for my sake shall find it.
Mat 16:25 For whosoever will save his life shall lose(destroy) it: and whosoever will lose(destroy) his life for my sake shall find it.
Those that finds his life here on earth are the many called that go in the broad way. Why? Because they were turned over to believe the lie which Satan gives them power and they have the spirit of the false prophet. Which seek after wisdom of men, not of God, which is SELF. All that is in this world is the first beast, the second beast, the lust of the flesh, lust of the eye, and the pride of life. This is the mark, the name, and the number of the name. All these that are not God's elect will worship this apostate church system, which is the physical church, whose father is Satan. He was a liar and a murderer from the beginning. This religious system is still here today which is Mystery, Babylon, the Great, the Mother of Harlots, the Abominations of the Earth.
The number 666 is represents the beast, the false prophet, and the dragon which has power over the other two. Three 6's= three spirits.
Rev 16:13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the (1)dragon, and out of the mouth of the (2)beast, and out of the mouth of the (3)false prophet.
I hope this may help some. :)
Grace, Peace, and Mercy,
Michael
-
Michael and Diana, that really hit the spot. The deception is in the carnality of human thought/wisdom, meaning people want to attach a name, face or product to this beast and things like buying and selling, forgetting that it's spiritual. It blows by them and no-one sees it... if carnality could see it, it wouldn't be deception, now would it?
-
I attach no "name face or product" to this beast.
i can see the spiritual meaning of this "beast". I just dont place any trust in it yet.
IMO it is stretching things to the breaking point to use this strictly spiritual definition, when there may also be
a literal definition too, especially with the world situation now.
Not all prophecy is strictly spiritual. Ninevah was a literal city. Damascus will be literally destroyed, Sodom and Gomorrah were literally destroyed as prophesied. Etc. et.
I simply said that I am "hedging my bets" by not getting placed in economic slavery, if we
go to a cashless system.
How many here will let themselves get chipped, based on what you believe now?
Is it worth the risk?
That's a strictly rhetorical question.
-
Hi Michael,
Welcome to the forum!!!
I'm glad you joined us and hope to hear a lot more from you.
Iris
-
Wheeeeee....this is a really interesting thread! I like everything I have read even opposing thoughts. I like to see all around something so I can think about it and study it. I love seeing Ray's words in these threads.
Personally, I would LOVE everything to be spiritual, seems less scary that way.
Years ago, many Christians thought that using checks instead of "real" money was the Mark of the Beast!!
-
Gena, you are just way too cute!! And I mean that in a most lovable (respectful) way! ;)
Peace and love to ya,
Diana
-
I attach no "name face or product" to this beast.
i can see the spiritual meaning of this "beast". I just dont place any trust in it yet.
IMO it is stretching things to the breaking point to use this strictly spiritual definition, when there may also be
a literal definition too, especially with the world situation now.
Not all prophecy is strictly spiritual. Ninevah was a literal city. Damascus will be literally destroyed, Sodom and Gomorrah were literally destroyed as prophesied. Etc. et.
I simply said that I am "hedging my bets" by not getting placed in economic slavery, if we
go to a cashless system.
How many here will let themselves get chipped, based on what you believe now?
Is it worth the risk?
That's a strictly rhetorical question.
It does seem odd that that there is so much information on each individual now, even when you purchase something now many have information already in the system. progress huh?
The mark on the right hand or forehead seems to possibly be literal when the ones that recieved the mark breaks out in sores and are in pain and beg to die.
If someone comes up and say you must get the chip in your right hand or forehead then I am suspicious.
I plan on taking tomorrow and studing Revelation further.
-
I see where the "mark of the beast" is a spiritual thingy...not a physical thingy...we have things every day that say to Babylon: "see..the end is near!" and they preach it and people pay more tithes to come hear how they can "escape all these things that are coming upon the earth." I've been there and done that...so have most of you....but I take GREAT comfort and peace in this scripture that I read just this morning....
Jeremiah 10:1-2
"Hear ye the word which the LORD speaketh unto you, O house of Israel: 2Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them."
Speak to anybody?
:) Joyce
-
In the ministry of the late Barry Smith (NZ) he also mentioned the VISA card (Warning, 2nd Warning and Final Notice Books) He also loosely predicted the end as 1998 based upon 1948 + 50 the last generation post re-establishment of the state of Israel and others I can't remember, The pope's latin name = 666 "false prophet" something like Vini Vicarius Dei meaning one who stands in the place of the Son of God
some possible Antichrist names = 666, don't have the books any more else I could give more details
VI = 6
S = 6
A = 6 (A=6, B=12 etc.)
Another interpretation related to Solomon's Stairs leading to an alter have sybolism of 666
Another, 6 digits for your date of birth, 6 digits for your geographic location (to within 100 x 100 m) and another 6 digits just in case you and someone else stayed in the same area and born on the same day viz twins.
The chip was already ready/designed/invented in 1990 and was already being used on pets.
Although the "beast within" is something new for me, even if one subscribes to Revelation merely being symbolic, there is the issue of the man of sin being revealed, even Ray mentions this will be a public display in one of his teachings. Whether he can deceive the whole world as the Antichrist I don't know, Antichrist does not necessarily mean opposed to Christ, can also mean counterfeit Christ.
In 1990 there were no cell phones, who does not have one now? We are now so interconnected viz Internet etc. it is easy for those in the know to triangulate your location, grocery stores now track what you buy if you use debit or credit cards, the list goes on.
I mention this as I cannot correlate the beast within to the revelation of the man of sin being each one of us too.
I got saved through this guys teachings, he never said 1998 was the year merely indicated the possibility.
I've observed what has transpired since 1990 technology wise and agree with his views that never before in the history of mankind have we had the technology to implement the MOB
Like other respondents to this blog, I would refuse the chip.
For what its worth
Luv to all
-
bernie:
Although the "beast within" is something new for me, even if one subscribes to Revelation merely being symbolic, there is the issue of the man of sin being revealed, even Ray mentions this will be a public display in one of his teachings.
Morning Bernie :-)
Could you provide the link to Ray's mention please.
:-)
-
Could you provide the link to Ray's mention please.
The last article I read was the Exposing the Secret Rapture Theory
Here's the quote (Search on "man of sin")
We need to be careful about setting dates for Christ’s return. We are told that when the man of sin takes his position in the Holy Place of the Temple, (an event that will obviously not take place in secret), it will be exactly 1335 days to the day for the resurrection of the saints of Israel. We are also told, that the 1260th day is the actual day of Christ’s return. How then is it that Christ told his disciples numerous times that no man (not even rapturists) knows the time of His return (remember that thing about coming unexpectedly, like "a thief")?
-
Hi Guys.
I saw an article in a local newspaper today discussing the microchip implant. They were talking about how important it is for medical reasons, to scan it and find out the medical history of that person. The problem is that the doctor stated that the implant is put in the right arm... why oh why must it be the right arm? If they said the left, then it would be so easy to just dismiss it.
I'm looking forward to Ray getting right into this topic in his future LOF installments, as it appears to worry many.
Nevetheless, God WILL save us all.
God's peace to you all.
Andrevan.
-
I am also wondering, if the marks might be physical for some while spiritual for others. ie...the difference between the called and the chosen. Does that make sense?
Phil 3:14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.
versus the mark of the beast.
Lisa
-
I haven't read this entire thread because discussions about the mark of the beast usually get pretty frustrating. However I'll add this. I was watching a documentary last week about the government and such. Apparently, and this is according to that dvd, next May is when the new National I.D. Card starts. This thing is powerful!!!!! It'll have a TRACKING DEVICE embedded within, with all your info such as ssn, personal stats, banking and credit, eventually your health history so your docs or hospital will just scan it and know it, and eventually tied in with the banking and credit will be this: when you get paid at your job, it'll go on the card like a debit or checking card. When you go to Walmart and make them a bit richer, they'll just scan your card, and the "money", or funds will come off your card's account. Here's the clincher: All "big brother" has to do is turn your tracking chip off, and you're done! You won't exist folks. No buying and selling. No working, at least not at a legit job, no health care, no nothing. It'll be like you've died, except you didn't.
Now I stress that was all according to the DVD I watched last week, but I've heard of this National I.D. Card for several years. Anyone else hear of this or am I wasting my breath?
Matt
-
Hi Matt,
Yes, I have heard of it. Also, the first family (of 3) has already been "chipped" a few years back in Florida.
Sadly, the teenage, genious son, died in an accident a short time ago. It was his idea they be chipped for medical reasons. You can look this up on the internet.
Lisa
-
I haven't read this entire thread because discussions about the mark of the beast usually get pretty frustrating. However I'll add this. I was watching a documentary last week about the government and such. Apparently, and this is according to that dvd, next May is when the new National I.D. Card starts. This thing is powerful!!!!! It'll have a TRACKING DEVICE embedded within, with all your info such as ssn, personal stats, banking and credit, eventually your health history so your docs or hospital will just scan it and know it, and eventually tied in with the banking and credit will be this: when you get paid at your job, it'll go on the card like a debit or checking card. When you go to Walmart and make them a bit richer, they'll just scan your card, and the "money", or funds will come off your card's account. Here's the clincher: All "big brother" has to do is turn your tracking chip off, and you're done! You won't exist folks. No buying and selling. No working, at least not at a legit job, no health care, no nothing. It'll be like you've died, except you didn't.
Now I stress that was all according to the DVD I watched last week, but I've heard of this National I.D. Card for several years. Anyone else hear of this or am I wasting my breath?
Matt
I have heard of it. In the not-to-distant past, this was considered by some to be tin-foil material. It's not seen that way anymore.
The debit card is nothing new, it's how I got paid in my last job. But this ID is something new and sinister. This is why I am a survivalist. Getting this card is out of the question, for me and many others that think like I do in this area. We're just waiting for it to happen. When it does, there will be enough that refuse it so that society will crash and burn.
Do they really think they can refuse life necessities and there will be no repercussions?
The PTB are intentionally trying to provoke a Civil War II, by using this ID, new restrictive laws, weapons bans, and qute a few things I could mention but will spare you from reading it all.
-
There is already satellites that can guide a bomb through a specific window! Satellites can isolate your movements so the chip thing doesn't seem like that much. If you are one of God's own nothing can separate us from His love.