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I’m not sure if you’re saying in Matthew 25 that we spiritually discern those who need to be clothed and fed - that it’s not with real clothes and real food ?

No, I'm not saying it, Jesus is. The answer from “the righteous” in Jesus' parable gives it away. The righteous never saw Jesus in the condition of being hungry, naked, thirsty, as a stranger etc. So it can't be literally true. So then it must be spiritually true only. Jesus is saying, if you did these good things for “the least” of all His Brothers, you did it to and for Him.

For the record, I was actually afraid of the knife man because he seemed a little unhinged. The Christians weren't a threat like the knife man was, but the threat was that I was in danger of Gehenna judgment in the lake of fire if I didn't love the Christians. The parables below are where I got this idea from.

Mat 5:21 Ye have heard, that it was said, to them of olden time,—Thou shalt not commit murder, and, whosoever shall commit murder, shall be, liable, to judgment.
Mat 5:22 But, I, say unto you, that, every one who is angry with his brother, shall be, liable, to judgment,—and, whosoever shall say to his brother, Worthless one!, shall be, liable, to the high council; and, whosoever shall say, Rebel!, shall be, liable, unto the fiery gehenna.

Mat 10:28 And do not fear those who are killing the body, yet are not able to kill the soul. Yet be fearing Him, rather, Who is able to destroy the soul as well as the body in Gehenna."
Mat 10:29 Are not two sparrows selling for a penny? And not one of them will be falling on the earth without your Father.

I couldn't have known any of this until I experienced it and looked back at that experience and remembered Jesus' words above.

Well, referring to what you mentioned earlier Porter, I’ll take the Christians and you can take the knife man.  I understand the Christians- I’ve been with them in one way or another for over fifty years and i know how to talk with them.  It’s the ministry God has given me for now.
 I’m not sure if you’re saying in Matthew 25 that we spiritually discern those who need to be clothed and fed - that it’s not with real clothes and real food ?
 I think one reason i understood Ray most of the time was that he talked like a roofer and even a simple person , like me, could understand him.  God knows he hasn’t given me the ability to see much beyond the simple.

WOW PORTER…………FIRE ANYONE

Good find and an excellent point, Pamela.

Rose, I think you do understand, near perfectly in fact. The problem isn't with doing these “external” works, the problem is in the heart. More specifically, who or what rules the heart.

Jas 1:26  If anyone thinks himself to be religious (piously observant of the external duties of his faith) and does not bridle his tongue but deludes his own heart, this person's religious service is worthless (futile, barren).
Jas 1:27  External religious worship [religion as it is expressed in outward acts] that is pure and unblemished in the sight of God the Father is this: to visit and help and care for the orphans and widows in their affliction and need, and to keep oneself unspotted and uncontaminated from the world.

I said you understood “near” perfectly because you said we cannot determine the state of one's heart. However, I believe we can determine the state of another's heart. I believe that because as Jesus is, so are we (1Jn_4:17). I can judge another's heart, as long as I first judged myself in the same way. So I better be merciful to myself.

Mat 15:18  But whatever comes out of the mouth comes from the heart, and this is what makes a man unclean and defiles [him].
Mat 15:19  For out of the heart come evil thoughts (reasonings and disputings and designs) such as murder, adultery, sexual vice, theft, false witnessing, slander, and irreverent speech.

Jesus did many wonderful outward works of healing people, forgiving people, feeding people, praying for people, being merciful and raising the dead. He could do this because His heart was clean from understanding that He could do nothing of His own self (Joh_5:30). Not only that, but Jesus didn't do these things to prove in the sight of all that He was righteous, like the many who do these things for that very reason. He did these things because He truly loves His neighbor, but who is His neighbor?

Eph 5:29  For no one ever hates his own flesh, but provides and cares for it [Look at the birds of the sky: they don't sow or reap or gather into barns, yet your heavenly Father feeds them. — Mat_6:26], just as Christ does for the church,
Eph 5:30  since we are members of His body.

If His neighbors are members of His body, whom He is taking care of, who are the members of His body?

1Co 12:12  For as the body is one and has many parts, and all the parts of that body, though many, are one body--so also is Christ.
1Co 12:13  For we were all baptized by one Spirit into one body--whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free--and we were all made to drink of one Spirit.
1Co 12:14  So the body is not one part but many.

Can you see how every one of the verses I cited must be spiritually discerned? When we spiritually discern Jesus' words, we can see that it is all one in meaning. His neighbors, the members of His body, and even the widows and orphans are one and the same.

Lam 5:2  Our inheritance has been turned over to strangers, our houses to foreigners.
Lam 5:3  We have become orphans, fatherless; our mothers are widows.

Here's another parable in the same vein as the previous parables.

Mat 25:35  For I was hungry and you gave Me something to eat; I was thirsty and you gave Me something to drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in;
Mat 25:36  I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you took care of Me; I was in prison and you visited Me.'
Mat 25:37  "Then the righteous will answer Him, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You something to drink?
Mat 25:38  When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or without clothes and clothe You?
Mat 25:39  When did we see You sick, or in prison, and visit You?'
Mat 25:40  "And the King will answer them, 'I assure you: Whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of Mine, you did for Me.

All these works of taking care of our neighbor can and should be done in the heart, and in the spirit. In this way, we are obeying and loving Jesus. I mean, what are the chances that we're going to see one another naked so that we can clothe each other? It is by Jesus' words that many are fed, clothed, healed and made alive, in the spirit. If we are as Jesus is, then it is also by our words that any are provided for.

1Co 1:21 …it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

We may not know with absolute certainty that any one of us might be one of the few chosen, but we can at the very least know that we are of the many called. Like Ray said, it's a very high calling, and one we should aspire to if we love Jesus. The table is being set, provisions have been made, the neighbors have been invited. Let's eat and drink the Lord's supper in a worthy way. Oh, and pass the salt! 

From Keeping Sabbath

Matt.11:28……. Come to me all you who LABOR and are heavy laden
and I will give you rest.

Who labor( doing your works , of churchosity) and I will give you rest.

Peace and rest for all in Christ Octoberose, no one will be left out.
All your kind and generous neighbours will be made complete
and whole in God’s plan. I just read that in the last paragraph of
Keeping Sabbath teaching. Those who labor…are those who have not yet have
come out of the shadow, but they will in Gods own timing.
Isn’t our Lord wonderful.


The reality is found in Christ .

God Bless You and those you love.

I guess I don’t really understand .  Love your neighbor as yourself is not a suggestion  .  Pure religion is taking care of the widows and orphans according to the NT - I would say in this day it is those who through no fault of their own cannot take care of themselves .   I know plenty of people who just want to be generous and kind to their neighbor . If that’s self purification it’s because of the state of the heart - which we cannot determine in another .

Yes, thanks for your insight Porter.

God Bless You

Very, very profound Porter. Thank you for cogitating on this. Very Ray like. You have spent some time on this and it is very thought provoking.

What is the sea of sinning humanities darkness compared to the Churches' darkness? What is “darkness”? Isn't it the same as the “shadow” where light is absent under the law of Moses, wrought by human works instead of faith and grace? If it's of faith and grace, why does the Church boast as if it isn't faith and grace?

Heb 10:1  Since the law has only a shadow of the good things to come, and not the actual form of those realities, it can never perfect the worshipers by the same sacrifices they continually offer year after year.
Heb 10:2  Otherwise, wouldn't they have stopped being offered, since the worshipers, once purified, would no longer have any consciousness of sins?

In other words, if the physical rituals of self purification were enough, why did they have to keep doing it? They have to keep doing those rituals and wonderful works because they are unable to believe Jesus' voluntary act of laying down His life was enough to render a not guilty verdict for all of humanity. They do these works which makes them feel righteous while looking down on the rest of sinning humanity. Talk about covetous hypocrites.

So, the law was added to make spiritual sins (such as thou shalt not covet) seem more sinful, as it truly is. I love the Amplified bible's translation for the explanation, as it just nails it.

Gal 3:19  What then was the purpose of the Law? It was added [later on, after the promise, to disclose and expose to men their guilt] because of transgressions and [to make men more conscious of the sinfulness] of sin; and it was intended to be in effect until the Seed (the Descendant, the Heir) should come, to and concerning Whom the promise had been made. And it [the Law] was arranged and ordained and appointed through the instrumentality of angels [and was given] by the hand (in the person) of a go-between [Moses, an intermediary person between God and man].

Rom 7:12  So then, the law is holy, and the commandment (thou shalt not covet) is holy and just and good.
Rom 7:13  Therefore, did what is good cause my death? Absolutely not! On the contrary, sin, in order to be recognized as sin, was producing death in me through what is good, so that through the commandment sin might become sinful beyond measure.

The reason the law makes sin seem more sinful is to inspire change in the believer. Look at Paul just rejoicing about it.

2Co 7:9  Now I am rejoicing, not because you were grieved, but because your grief led to repentance. For you were grieved as God willed, so that you didn't experience any loss from us.
2Co 7:10  For godly grief produces a repentance not to be regretted and leading to salvation, but worldly grief produces death.
2Co 7:11  For consider how much diligence this very thing--this grieving as God wills--has produced in you: what a desire to clear yourselves, what indignation, what fear, what deep longing, what zeal, what justice! In every way you have commended yourselves to be pure in this matter.

Psa 51:17  My sacrifice [the sacrifice acceptable] to God is a broken spirit; a broken and a contrite heart [broken down with sorrow for sin and humbly and thoroughly penitent], such, O God, You will not despise.

The law of Moses was just a shadow being cast from the light where God puts His laws into the hearts and minds of the believer to give them a consciousness, to wake them up and to make them alive from the dead works of Moses' law. Hardly anyone who calls Jesus Lord believes this. Because if they did, they would stop doing anything and everything related to outward physical works and rituals. They would see they themselves are beasts whose only hope for them and the world is Jesus and not their selves.

If all parables are about the many called and the few chosen, what do we gain from that knowledge?

Psa 23:1  A Davidic psalm. The LORD is my shepherd; there is nothing I lack.
Psa 23:2  He lets me lie down in green pastures; He leads me beside quiet waters.
Psa 23:3  He renews my life; He leads me along the right paths for His name's sake.
Psa 23:4  Even when I go through the darkest valley, I fear no danger, for You are with me; Your rod and Your staff--they comfort me.
Psa 23:5  You prepare a table before me in the presence of my enemies; You anoint my head with oil; my cup overflows.
Psa 23:6  Only goodness and faithful love will pursue me all the days of my life, and I will dwell in the house of the LORD as long as I live.

I was more in danger from the Christians I ran into in the big city than the knife man. The danger was in not loving the Christians. Knife man was easy to love

Now Porter you know Christ told us to beware of ducks in vulture’s clothing.
LOL

That was quite an experience you had. A test of your faith maybe?
God does strange things in this earth. It’s astonishing
to see. I have not been to the big city in years. I don’t
like them either.
All is vanity. Yes , and yet All Is Of God, quite amazing isn’t it.
We are very blessed here at BT.

Humans love the darkness. I believe this is becoming more and more evident
as humanity tries to live independently of their creator. Sin upon sin upon sin
in an evil time.
Porter, it will be a great day when we all wear stab proof jackets, manufactured
by our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, of course they will be whiter than white.