bible-truths.com/forums
=> General Discussions => Topic started by: legoman on September 12, 2008, 12:35:28 AM
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Does anyone ever have doubts that what we have learned is really the truth?
To be honest I do once in a while, but maybe only for a second. After hanging out in a mainstream Christian forum for a while, it starts to get to you. I think - what if I am wrong, and I am sending myself to hell... but then I go back and reread everything I have learned. We all know the proofs that Ray has shown from the bible. And then I know it is the truth.
Its not that I really doubt, but its almost like peer pressure. Anyone get that feeling before? Something like, "well everyone else believes in hell, why don't I", "all the cool kids are doing it" LOL! Its so hard to unlearn what you've been taught your whole life.
Kevin
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I did at first, and the anti dote is what you did---Yep, go back and read Ray. Then it would be clear again.....then things would get fuzzy.....go back and re read....
over time I found that has gone away and I don't have to deal w/ that so much anymore.
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The only real doubt I have is whether I'll be one who endures to the end. I have little doubt as to the basics of Ray's teaching of scripture. Looking forward, my faith is not in what I know or don't know...it's in WHO I know and who knows me. To my mind, it's perfectly OK to be 'wrong' at any point in life I find myself. I've always believed that we are all wrong anyway, at least in some things and very much to one degree or another. Even if a man has perfect knowledge, it profits nothing if he lacks wisdom or love. I'd rather be wise with what little I know and bear the fruits of the Spirit than be doctrinally correct anyway. We aren't going to get it ALL right in ALL its significance and power until after judgement. So be it.
So it is not a troublesome thought for me to think that I don't have a full knowledge of the scripture. I know enough to know that John 3:16 doesn't read that God loved the world in such a way that whosoever believeth in Hell should not have to go there.
IF I should lose my faith in this Gospel, there is NO WAY I would go back to believing the way I was raised any more than I would start school in the 4th grade again.
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I have many doubts about God, scripture and immortality. I have no doubts that the church doctrines (in particular, the eternal torment one) are absolutely not true.
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No not usually,
I doubted Hell for years now, I just never understood the purpose so I doubted it.
I could not see how a loving God would do such a horrendous thing.
I then fell into the belief that God would annihilate the really nasty ones like Hitler and serial killers.
I see now that I limited God.
I still struggle with freewill even though I know there is no freewill.
That has been the hardest for me to understand.
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I am like Dave in Tenn. I am OK with me being wrong, because it is just how it works. It is beyond unrealistic to think your going to have everything figured out. And then even if you do, that isn't worth a penny if you don't live it and have the fruits of it. Our walk is growth and learning and relearning. The hell stuff is just the mind trying to appease an obsessive religious disorder. All just carnal garbage that stinks and clutters up your life. Anyhow, remember how when Moses lead the people out how many times they desired to go back to the same place they were begging to get out of. After awhile back in the "hell" camp you would be kicking yourself in the pants again.
Jeff
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hi all
I dont usually post but this cut deep because it's what i have been thinking about. I agree totally with Dave in tenn. I have been feeling like since knowing these truths that i know i may start looking down on others who dont know them, but then again i remember that i myself dont have perfect knowledge either and i know many such people who believe these false doctrines and yet are very loving, charitable, kind people. That's what i strive for, beyond any degree of knowledge, i really strive for love. Perfect love- Agapao as Ray teaches. Where others come first and where i will help people without expecting any kind of reward- i could be wrong,but to me thats true religion.
I ofcourse want to learn and unlearn more, otherwise i wouldnt spend the many hours i do on Ray's teachings, but i pray that God may help me not to lose sight of the why behind all these truths- i.e LOVE. That fellow bretheren is the sincere prayer of my heart.
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Like David, I have doubts about myself, whether I will indeed run the race and be with Christ and His saints in the 1st resurrection. I think one of Ray's earliest talks (at least on the web anyway), "How hard is it to be saved", for me that was both very revealing and very daunting. Since hearing it just over two years ago, its made me look at myself every day, all day. You find yourself clocking up the sins, both physical acts and thoughts, and it does get discouraging at times because it seems like an impossible up hill battle 24/7. But then that's our calling. Once you know what the truth is, it makes it a whole lot harder to live up to it.
As for doubts about what I've learned, no none at all. There are maybe two issues that I disagree on with Rays teaching so far, and maybe I'm flat out wrong. The vast majority of it though makes perfect sense, checks out perfectly with Scripture. The truth that Ray teaches most about, which I have never had any doubts about since I first heard it, is about Hell. That was a biggie I struggled with right from when I first joined a Church....."why would God create us, then give us a choice of something so horrific if He knows beforehand who will choose what." That was always a big question in my mind. This and another site answered it for me, and since then I've never looked back, never had a seed of doubt that God will save all of us.
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Yeah, I have doubts.
Often.
I have read and studied so much - I have spoken with so many different people with so many different backgrounds and persuasions - It's hard to arrive at the conclusion that what I experience (or have experienced) is the only truth.
All my life I have been obsessed with just one thing above all other things - and that is knowing the TRUTH, in everything.
Ironically, this is the one thing that I simply cannot seem to conclusively establish.
I Love Ray - and I love that God sent me to his site, but I don't know if we should take what he says / writes as if it were scripture.
So many times in this forum, I read about people that continually refer back to "Ray's Teachings" - so much so that it begins to sound a bit "cult-like"
So, yeah, I have doubts.
I doubt very much that we have the whole truth. In fact, I'm certain that we don't.
I do believe, with all my heart, that we should get EVERYTHING WE ACCEPT TO BE TRUTH direct from the scriptures by the Spirit of God.
The funny thing is - how can we be sure that what we are seeing or understanding from the scriptures really is from the Spirit of God? I mean, there are SO MANY cults and sects out there that SWEAR they have the correct understanding of the scripture!
Are we just another group like that? Or maybe we're in danger of becoming one.
I'm not accusing anyone or anything - I'm just answering the question about wether or not I have doubts.
And I do. Definitely.
Do I doubt that God made the world and sent His Son to be its saviour - NO.
Do I doubt that we have the whole truth - absolutely.
Do I doubt that Ray has the whole truth - you better believe it.
So I test myself and my understanding and my belief system continually. I test it against the scripture, I test it against reality, I test it by expounding it to other people, but above all - I am in constant communion with God in my heart all the time - PLEADING with Him to show me "The Way". And just hoping that He does.
Peace
Falgn0n.
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Legoman. I’m really new with the truth of Ray’s teachings but I looked up and read every scripture Ray use in presenting God’s truth and have no doubts at all within me.
I don’t even think about which resurrection I’ll be in because God predestine me for either the first or second one.
It has nothing to do with me in fact even my faith has nothing to do with me. Wherefore no man can boast.
It is of God by God and for God that God may be all in all.
You’re brother in Christ. :)
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NOPE
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I used to. I don't anymore.
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Good Morning, Legoman(Kevin),
This is a very interesting Thread you started, had to drink my first cup of coffee prior to commenting. I believe that if I stopped exercising my mind and heart with the Spiritual Knowledge presented by Ray at this Site, I would probably start to develop doubts.
At the time of this Posting, I have no doubt that God is going to save everyone; I have no doubt that God doesn't Roast, Toast or Eternally Torture, Torment, Annihilate or Separate any of his Children, that would make him worse than any Man there ever was. I have no doubt that when we die, we are in fact dead(asleep) and require a Resurrection(Standing up again) to live again.
By nature, especially after leaving the JWs, I am a Skeptic, in that I require proof and reason to accept any information presented to me as Truth. I have yet to read anyones information as presented by Ray where Scripture, Examples, Explanations and the meanings of the Hebrew and Greek terms are shown to back up the understandings. All done in a manner that makes it simple to understand. Does this mean that I fully understand every minute detail of every teaching Ray has at this Site; No I don't. Do I deem it necessary to do so; No I don't. As I've stated to others, Ray has taught us the better part.
A possible cure when experiencing doubt as mentioned by Kevin is to re-read Rays material, primarily THE FREE WILL SERIES and everything else seems to fall in place. My Wife and I are attempting(many ink cartridges later) to systematically print all of Rays Articles. I printed out Free Will Part A yesterday, prior to leaving for work. I read it last night(30 pages) and can't wait to start Part B. Ray has often ed mentioned that understanding that we don't have Free Will, but only caused choices is probably the most important teaching of all and for me, it helps in being able to understand the other Truths presented by Ray at this Site.
If there is anything that bothers me about God's Truth, it's the concept that I will die one day and just be dead(unconscious, asleep) and I don't know for how long, but this has lingered in my mind, my whole life. All I've ever known is being alive and the idea of being Dead feels weird to me. This might seem ridiculous to some of you and I don't know if you classify it as a doubt, but it has nothing to do with believing Ray, it's only a Carnal feeling that I've carried my whole life and feels strange.
Kind Regards, Samson.
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Before I started working on my PhD. in Criminology I was studying Physics, Philosophy and Psychology. I have been a professional student for many years. What is funny is that all three of these disciplines depends on accepting certain facts that can never be proved without a doubt.
For me; when I learned that all matter was actually 99% empty space on the subatomic level that blew my mind. However; how would you explain cell phones. Cell phones work because the signals go right through metal, glass, plastic, whatever. Why because everything is 99% empty space.
There is no way in Hell (pun intended) that such a marvelous design could have happened by chance. God had to be responsible, there is no other explanation. Why should people have a problem with God creating everything in 6 days. He could have created everything in 6 nano-seconds if he had wanted too.
Why should we limit God to sending everyone to an imaginary "HELL" simply because they do not believe in him, or have even heard about him? We send people to prison because we do not have the power, knowledge, insight, or patience to "fix" them. God is not limited like we are. God can and will set everything right in the time of his choosing. We can not force God to change his plans simply because we think that we have "Free Will" to make certain decisions and choices.
Just my humble opinion.
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Morning dawns.... as the cock crows 3 times....
Rodger
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I have no doubt that Ray is pointing us to the Truth. What I believe he is doing, by the will of God, is removing the man made traditions from the original Scriptures. It is the original Scriptures from the men who walked and talked with Jesus Christ that have the Truth, that I have no doubt of.
Ray is just human like any of us, but God has seen fit to use him to help us to unlock the mystery of the Scripture. He is only showing what is in the Scriptures, not presenting new revelations. We can use the knowledge he has provided to continue our own study of the Scriptures, for those chosen by God and given eyes to see.
Col 1:26 the mystery hidden for ages and generations but now made manifest to his saints.
v. 27 To them God chose to make known how great among the Gentiles are the riches of the glory of this mystery, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
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To doubt means to be uncertain or to be less than 100% convinced about something. When we discuss the big questions in life such as does God exist, is Christ the Savior of the world, is scripture inerrant, free will, who will be in the Kingdom, origin of man, young earth, evil, etc….Is it possible that we can be 100% convinced about some of them and less than 100% certain about others? The answer is yes!
So when you ask do we have doubts, the answer would have to be yes, otherwise the person who has no doubts would be all-knowing. Sometimes we look at doubt as if it is a bad thing. It is not. Doubt leads to questioning and questioning leads to truth. Think of it this way….if you never doubted what you were taught, then you would not be at this website now. So likewise, is it okay to doubt what is taught here? Absolutely! Why? Because doubt leads to questioning…to searching out the truth for yourself rather than just taking someone’s word for it. Would it really be reasonable to tell someone to question the teachings of the church, but not to question the teachings of this site? This entire website questions the teachings of men while providing evidence for its own teachings. Then we are challenged to test this evidence.
Now to offer my doubts and certainties:
Am I 100% convinced that God is the creator: YES
Am I 100% convinced that Jesus is the Savior: YES
Am I 100% convinced that the scriptures are inerrant: NO
Am I 100% convinced that free will is a myth: YES
Am I 100% convinced that the earth is only 6K years old: NO
Am I 100% convinced that I will ever, in this life, know all of the truth: NO
So therefore, I am 100% convinced that I will have doubts until the day I die….because if I don’t doubt, then I would know everything…and that won’t happen in this life.
I need to make one final comment. Please don’t take this as me starting an argument, but I believe clarification is needed on the following:
There is a term that describes what you are experiencing called BACKSLIDNG.
To backslide means to lapse morally or in the practice of religion or to revert to a worse condition. To doubt is not to backslide. After all, doubt is what brought you here.
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I have 100% NO DOUBT that God knows exactly what I DO and DO NOT understand about Him, and that He loved me first, last and best! Every night I curl up to sleep and ask Him to hold on to my soul and keep me forever! I have 100% NO DOUBT that He will do that, regardless of the process He may have to put me through to accomplish that.
What I HOPE for is to be in the first resurrection....I have no garantee of that....but that's what HOPE is for!
Joyce :)
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To all my brothers & sisters;
All of your post on this thread are great. I wanted to post on here about having doubt but before I could I had to reread all of the responses twice. IMO.....If we doubt our faith or our love for our heavenly Father that is when he is trying his hardest to pull us closer. When I start doubting if I really know the truth, I get this sick feeling deep with in me and I find myself here on this forum reading Ray's material and reading the post and the feeling of doubt goes away. To me its our Father's way of saying HELLO....I AM OVER HERE, WHERE YOU GOING?
I may be wrong but if we didn't have doubt in the first place and wasn't looking for help with it then we wouldn't have found Ray's site or each other. One way or another we all have had doubt about our past beliefs which led us here. We can still have doubt, but maybe we aren't doubting our faith in our Father but rather our faith in ourselves. Me, myself, and I alone have doubt about whether I have enough faith or love for our father. Our Father alone will always hold us close to him and keep us safe, when we start to doubt that is when he pulls us closer to his chest and says I LOVE YOU, AND WILL KEEP YOU SAFE!
I think having doubt makes us realize we are carnal minded and need a reason we see things the way we do and others don't. Our Father will in time show ALL his love and he knows when, the hour, the day. I have no doubt that someday I will be walking with our father looking out over an ocean and thanking him for his patience with me, and still loving ME. I maybe wrong in this post but, these our only my thoughts and opinions from my carnal mind and heart.
We all should remember that just because we have the truth doesn't mean we still can't have doubt about how much we love our Father or how much we show him. He shows us every day when we open our eyes and see this wonderful truth he has given us. Besides giving him our hearts and opening up our eyes to his truth what else have we given him? This is where my doubt really comes in,He has given us so much, and I feel like I haven't given him enough.
With God's Love & Understanding,
Pam
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Hello,
Kevin (legoman) didn't ask if we had doubts that led us here. He asked if we had doubts SINCE learning the truth God and his whole plan of making mankind into his image.
Luke 9:62 And Jesus said unto him, No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God.
Gen 19:26 But his wife looked back from behind him, and she became a pillar of salt.
Recognizing one has doubt if fine but it still must be cast away into the fire.
Hope this helps,
Marques
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To All,
I have doubts all the time. My most frequent doubt is if the Bible is inerrant. I don't doubt GOD or HIS SON but I do doubt anything that man has his hands in. Our GOD knows there is nothing good in the flesh and I know that HE alone draws fleshly man to HIMSELF. John 6:37 says it all, "All that the FATHER gives ME shall come to ME; and him that comes to ME I will in no wise cast out".
I am much like Dave in Tennessee and I do question many things. However, I think this pleases GOD in that I don't just accept everything but that I do search HIS word and seek HIS HOLY SPIRIT in guiding me to HIS truths. My greatest peace has come from being released from the bondage of the Church System and just relying on HIM to reveal HIS truths in the still small voice that brings me HIS peace.
GOD has no limits, HE is in everything and HIS perfect will is going to be accomplished in HIS time frame.
I thank Ray Smith and this site for confirming to me that GOD is good, HIS love is real and HE is not the monster the Church System says HE is. Praise HIS HOLY NAME!
Phil3:10
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I have no doubt that Ray is pointing us to the Truth. What I believe he is doing, by the will of God, is removing the man made traditions from the original Scriptures. It is the original Scriptures from the men who walked and talked with Jesus Christ that have the Truth, that I have no doubt of.
Ray is just human like any of us, but God has seen fit to use him to help us to unlock the mystery of the Scripture. He is only showing what is in the Scriptures, not presenting new revelations. We can use the knowledge he has provided to continue our own study of the Scriptures, for those chosen by God and given eyes to see.
Col 1:26 the mystery hidden for ages and generations but now made manifest to his saints.
v. 27 To them God chose to make known how great among the Gentiles are the riches of the glory of this mystery, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
Kat I agree!
From reading Rays material none of which is a new revelation.
He showed us the scriptures that's all! and God used him well in doing this.
I have NO doubts.
Reading the first time was like a huge weight of doubt lifted, the veil was removed. It was the single greatest feeling I have ever had in my life.
I have plenty questions myself but I don't consider them my doubt in the truth!
I even have my own theories but I keep them to myself till understanding comes in.
Most are done in quickly and vanish away, some I have concerns the topic at the conference.
Thats why I am so excited about this conference!! Ray has dropped to many jewels not to finish the necklace!!
Antaiwan
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I have no doubt the original scriptures were inerrant. What we have now, I have no doubt is in error. That is why we must study and search and trust God to lead us correctly.
Craig
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Before I started working on my PhD. in Criminology I was studying Physics, Philosophy and Psychology. I have been a professional student for many years. What is funny is that all three of these disciplines depends on accepting certain facts that can never be proved without a doubt.
For me; when I learned that all matter was actually 99% empty space on the subatomic level that blew my mind. However; how would you explain cell phones. Cell phones work because the signals go right through metal, glass, plastic, whatever. Why because everything is 99% empty space.
There is no way in Hell (pun intended) that such a marvelous design could have happened by chance. God had to be responsible, there is no other explanation. Why should people have a problem with God creating everything in 6 days. He could have created everything in 6 nano-seconds if he had wanted too.
Why should we limit God to sending everyone to an imaginary "HELL" simply because they do not believe in him, or have even heard about him? We send people to prison because we do not have the power, knowledge, insight, or patience to "fix" them. God is not limited like we are. God can and will set everything right in the time of his choosing. We can not force God to change his plans simply because we think that we have "Free Will" to make certain decisions and choices.
Just my humble opinion.
Douglas,
Thanks for your message, it fits right in with my history and interest in the physics of creation.
I like your comment outlined in RED above regarding what God can do if he wants to. I think we will get a broadened perspective from the conference next week as that is the main topic as I understand it. Please keep me in mind when you are thinking along these lines and send a PM from time to time.
Thanks, Old Indiana Bob
Formerly having worked at U. of Notre Dame and an amateur multidisciplined, curious investigator of things of the earth.
Now in Culver, Indiana
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I have no doubt about this: Lo those many years ago when I was caught up in the church and trying to live 'in the spirit' in the flesh, faith faltered and ultimately failed. But even when I dabbled in agnosticism, God never left me alone. When I was at my most sinfulness, God never left me alone. When I got to the point that ALL I wanted out of God was for Him to leave me alone, He never really did.
I didn't come to B-T searching for the truth. But maybe this is a good time to share something I never have. At least 20 years ago I prayed a prayer. I don't remember exactly what I said, but I was at the end of my rope trying to deal with deep-seated sin in my life that only got worse and worse the more I struggled. I told God that if He wanted me to be free of this, then He would have to do it. Unless and until He did, I didn't want any part of any of it. That was pretty much the last time I prayed, and I hadn't cracked open a Bible more than a few perfunctory times since then.
Surely, and I have NO doubt of this, God prepared me to recieve this truth and the new life it is bringing. Surely, and I have NO doubt of this, God prepared Ray Smith to be a vessel to pour this truth out not just on me, but many. Faith leads to faith. When I read here, and when I read scripture with the 'eyes' that Ray has shown me I must have, faith GROWS instead of flounders. That's all the evidence I need.
I'm 52 and have had one major heart attack. I won't live long enough to outgrow Ray Smith. I praise God for B-T and His incredible sovereignty in preparing Ray, me, and the rest of us for this time.
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To All,
I have doubts all the time. My most frequent doubt is if the Bible is inerrant. I don't doubt GOD or HIS SON but I do doubt anything that man has his hands in. Our GOD knows there is nothing good in the flesh and I know that HE alone draws fleshly man to HIMSELF. John 6:37 says it all, "All that the FATHER gives ME shall come to ME; and him that comes to ME I will in no wise cast out".
I am much like Dave in Tennessee and I do question many things. However, I think this pleases GOD in that I don't just accept everything but that I do search HIS word and seek HIS HOLY SPIRIT in guiding me to HIS truths. My greatest peace has come from being released from the bondage of the Church System and just relying on HIM to reveal HIS truths in the still small voice that brings me HIS peace.
GOD has no limits, HE is in everything and HIS perfect will is going to be accomplished in HIS time frame.
I thank Ray Smith and this site for confirming to me that GOD is good, HIS love is real and HE is not the monster the Church System says HE is. Praise HIS HOLY NAME!
Phil3:10
I had tried to post something like that earlier, but my boss was coming so... click. Anyway i dont believe i doubt, i think i question (maybe just semantics here). A couple of days ago "out of the blue" i couldnt figure out the difference between responsiblity and blame. It was eating me up because i already knew for certainty God was responsible for everything and for some reason i couldnt differentiate that from blaming God. And from what i was taught along time ago "its wrong to blame God" I looked up the meaning of both words and they are almost synonyms. I started to question if what was revealed to me from God through Ray if Ray was correct in his interpretations. This was beginning to become earth shattering to me.
I knew Ray was correct and i knew something i was thinking was wrong. So i prayed and then stopped thinking about it, then the next time it came to my head i prayed and then stopped thinking about it. Then last nite "out of the blue", while deep into a video game (yeah im 30 and still playing them) God stopped me and led to the book of Job. Before this happened i kept remembering from what i was taught before while in babylon "Job didnt sin because he didnt blame God for what happened to him". So i found that verse and what did it say "Job did not sin by charging God for wrong doing".
What an eye opener!!! I felt so relieved so happy and i got that feeling you just cant describe when a Truth is revealed to you. For me It was saying we can say God is responsible (blaming so harsh of word) for what happens in this world, but who are we to tell God that He is wrong for doing whatever He does. Now theres a big difference.
Anyway like what i got at the bottom of my all my posts i dont think (at least for me) i doubt-- i just might question to get a even deeper meaning and this in the end just strengthens my faith
Anthony
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Great question,...and the answers reveal great depth to everyone heart...WOW!
I have tried about 4 times to Post a reply and keep losing electrical power... :P
Each time I get back online and read more responses.
Some replies have answered the question in a narrow and direct way,
and with more replies, layers are added, the subject gets bigger and more profound.
You know some just can't get all their Brilliance out in a few sentences. ;D ;)
Let us be Blessed with the Grace, to allow others to cross our "T''s and dot our "i'"s.
Kind of like making an Itialian Spagehetti Sauce...
Adding Garlic, Bitter Herbs, Meat, Sweet Herbs, Onions, Peppers and maybe just a dash of brown sugar...
you can throw in the mushrooms,[ I don't like them myself :P ]
What I'm trying to say is....what a beautiful Feast!
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nope.
Not at all.
Randy
;D 8) ;D
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Kevin
I believe it is nothing short of a miracle that any of us are able to believe what we believe. Everything in this world opposes the truth.
God spent 5 years teaching me that there is no free will and taking me out of the church teachings. This is before I found Ray. I was full of doubt and fear, but God just kept dragging me. I thought I was crazy. How could this be truth when the whole huge church believes otherwise? My pastor told me my beliefs would only lead me to despair. God showed me the "beast" before I found Ray.
At that point I could not prove hell wrong. I could not get past the word "eternal" even though I had all the scriptures of all men being saved. It was a contradiction I could not solve. That put me in a greater panic because I knew that God was sovereign and I had no choice in my destiny. I saw the beast and knew I was powerless to save myself. I don't think there is much scarier than seeing you are the beast, seeing that you have no free will or power to change that, and still believing that there is a hell. Having the huge church confirm that I was going to hell and being able to push forward and believe God in spite of all this was only by God's grace.
After learning all this God was completely silent for 10 years. The doubt then was so overpowering that I was holding on by a thread and begging God not to abandon me. I learned that I can't trust myself. I can't trust that I am not deceived. I am only at God's mercy to see me through and keep me from deception. I searched for others. I went to different churches when I heard something on the radio that sounded like what I believe. I searched the internet. It was all useless because one lie and one false truth canceled everything that may have initially resembled truth. I kept hearing the pastors words that my belief would only lead me to despair. That instilled even more doubt, but I knew what I learned was the truth and couldn't let go of it. I thought maybe I committed the unforgivable sin and was doomed.
One day I burst into tears and told God I knew he had a remnant spread out all over this world. I was on my knees praying and asking if there was a teacher anywhere in this world that God would lead me to him. If there were others anywhere in this world please let me find just one other person. I did have my brother, but I wanted to find the body of Christ.
2 weeks later I was looking for a poem to comfort a friend in grief and stumbled onto BT. The first thing that caught my eye was the free will series. I laughed and cried and couldn't find one lie. Not one in around 120 pages. I was looking for a lie expecting to just walk away as I've done so many times. I could not walk away.
When I read the hell series I was very cautious. At first the only thing that kept me reading was the fact that there was no lie in the free will series. Then I read the explanation of the word "eternal". There is was. The answer to what I saw as a contradiction. The answer that allowed me to finally know that there is no hell. It was the only thing keeping me from believing that all would be saved.
Rays teaching about who Christ is and what the Holy Spirit is was the hardest to accept. I kept reading and studying until I understood it and was able to believe it after much prayer. I was actually physically ill for 2 weeks trying to work through it.
It was a lot to take in. First there was the shock that I finally found others. Then the new truths that I absorbed as fast I could. I was so thirsty and hungry I was like a starving person eating for the first time in 10 years.
I can see how it can appear that some of the wording in posts can seem like a cult, but you have to remember that as far as we know Ray is the only one we've found who is teaching the truth that we believe in. That alone has the appearance of a cult to those who don't believe the same truths. I can imagine that there was the same appearance in the days of the disciples when they were going from town to town teaching the new truths they learned. I'm sure the new believers and followers used the same words about Peter and Paul. I'm sure the unbelievers and religious leaders in that day also believed they were a cult.
John 10:4-6
4And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.
5And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.
6This parable spake Jesus unto them: but they understood not what things they were which he spake unto them.
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When it comes to the "Hell" doctrine I have no doubts that it does not exist. And when it comes to my family, I rejoice in that knowledge but not when I hear of the mother that microwaved her baby or the soldiers in Congo who are raping women for all to see from the ages of 3 to 80. It is then that I wish there was a fiery hell. I'm sorry but I just can't help myself.
Eileen
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I have no doubt that God exists or that Jesus is the only way to Him. I have no doubt I am saved and would be even if I was wrong about all of the BT stuff. (which I am not ;))I came to this information through a L-O-N-G process over many years that has God all over it so I can honestly say that the big ideals in BT about all saved, no hell, no trinity, no free will, errant translations of God's inerrant Word, etc. I really don't have any doubts about.
But, as for the details and smaller, less important stuff, I have been proven wrong so many times in my adult life that I have a "policy" to never cling too tightly to my new revelations! 8)
I am always open to new thoughts and new ideas.
Blessings, Lin
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Hi, as for me I have more questions than you could shake a Bible at, no hell, is no problem for me. Predestined everything, major problem. How can God answer prayers if He already made life and we are now playing it out. It would mean that He could not change anything, it has to be played out the way He already made it. ?? I hope someone can answer this one, cos I have been here for a little while now and have learnt to keep my mouth shut cos people on the form can misunderstand what you type, and take it the wrong way. I have already gone through this here, now I shall be very careful. Craig says to trust God ? how do you do that if you have no free will. How can you love God without free will. Like I said more questions than you can shake a bible at. Please don't get mad at me. I am one guy that refuses to be fooled again. Bless you all Ricky
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Hi Ricky,
Maybe this email will be of some help to you.
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2354.0.html -----
You are not understanding this subject and the principle behind it. You ask: "Is it man making the choices or is it God's predestination of things?" It is BOTH. Listen: God is SOVEREIGN! Man therefore has NO FREE WILL OR NO FREE CHOICE. That's it. That's all there is to it. That IS the principle. That IS the Truth. That IS what the Bible teaches. It is not a contradiction to say that "Man makes his own choices." You and millions of other just think it is a contradiction to say man makes his own choices if indeed God is sovereign and God is behind all in His creation. It is not a contradiction. It only sounds like a contradiction for those who do not believe that "God is Sovereign, and Man has no free will."
I hardly know what else to tell you. God made man's heart. Man did not make his own heart, or his body, or his mind, or his brain, or his will, or his hopes and dreams. They are all PREDESTINATED by the foreknowledge of God. So then we don't make choices, right? NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO....WE DO MAKE CHOICES. It's just that they are CAUSED by things we can't always see. Sometimes we can see what makes our choices and some times we can't, but either way THEY ARE CAUSED. And God, not us, already knows in advance the outcome of all of those caused choices. How does He do that? He is very smart (has over a 150 IQ), plus HE IS SOVEREIGN, ALL WISE, AND ALL POWERFUL.....and don't forget LOVE.
So, does God FORCE EVIL MEN TO RAPE LITTLE GIRLS? Well, does He? Does God being Sovereign prove that God forces evil men to rape little girls? That's what evil theologians deduce from the truth of no free will. They turn the Sovereignty of God into one of the biggest evils in the universe. If God is Sovereign, then God must be EVIL, because there is so much evil in the world, and God is in control of all things, right? Wrong, wrong, wrong! Man makes all his own choices. Just because they are CAUSED does not mean that he does not make them. He is, in fact, CAUSED TO MAKE HIS CHOICES. But God does not directly do this. He is responsible, but He does not directly cause those choices. Things like the Devil do such things. And who created the Devil? That's right, that One Who is Sovereign and in charge of all things. Evil men like raping just like evil theologians like stealing widow's social security money. God doesn't make them do it--THEY LIKE TO DO IT. They volunteer with little outside influence. God made humanity this way. He created them spiritually weak. Eve couldn't help but sin. God has a good purpose and God will straighten it all out in the end.
I guess I could just keep writing and writing and writing and one day someone will say................OHHHHHH, now I get it. Maybe today is your day. I'm pulling for ya!!!
God be with you,
Ray
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I do admit that I have doubts. I keep thinking, "I was so certain that I had the truth when I was teaching and believing in eternal torment and all the other doctrines of the church...what makes me so certain I have the truth NOW?"
Sometimes I feel that it's just not worth all the hassle struggling to try to make it in the 1st resurrection, because I keep on falling, keep on feeling like God is disappointed in me, continue to experience His cold silence during times when I need Him most, continue to literally not have one single prayer answered during the past several years of my life. I figure that God knows already who His elect are. Why keep busting my butt and crying and pleading and trying to endure, when all that may be for nought, and I may very well not BE chosen? At one time, making the 1st resurrection was such a big deal to me, and perhaps it still is, but all this uncertainty really puts a damper in it, almost to where I want to throw up my hands and say, "screw it...I'll just go through the lake of fire. It'll be painful, but at least I'll eventually be saved."
Pray for me please! :'(
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Hi Decky, Kat, Decky I am in that very same boat with you, It just seems like God has played one heck of a false, mindtwisting bad joke illusuion on man that changes all the time and has no end to it. Maybe I just throw in the towel and swim that lake with you. Sorry Kat no help, I need the question answered please, How is it possible to HONESTLY love God from the Heart without free will, or is that just a choice. Ricky
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I really don't expect to be in the first resurrection, however I do want to endure as little pain as possible so I struggle forward hoping to have few stripes.
If I make the first resurrection well then great.
I know what ever I will be ok.
I don't want to go out and sin more, my desire is to sin less.
Our desire is to be more pleasing to God.
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Hi Decky. I have prayed for you and will again.
If you haven't already (even if you have) listen to Ray's sermon on Can We lose God's Spirit and Aeonian life. I think there's a jewel in there just for you. I know it was there for me. If you don't find it, we'll talk again.
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Hi Ricky,
I need the question answered please, How is it possible to HONESTLY love God from the Heart without free will, or is that just a choice.
Here is a section from the transcript 'Free Will is an Oxymoron.'
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php?topic=5154.0 ---------
Eph 2:3 “Among whom also we all (how many? ALL - including the great apostle Paul) had our conversation (behavior-conduct) in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were BY NATURE the children of wrath, even as others.”
Excuse me, but what happened to everybody's free will in all this? By nature we’re
“the children of wrath.” But supposedly only if love comes from this free will, which by nature….is wrath. How is that good? If you love somebody through free will, that means you loved them for no reason at all. Isn’t it better to love somebody for a reason? Isn’t it better that we love God for reasons, that we have reasons for loving Him? Guess what those reasons are? They are CAUSES! But there isn’t any causes in ‘free,’ so it does away with the free will concept completely and totally.
Jer 13:23 Can the Ethiopian change his skin, (no) or the leopard its spots? (no)
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Maybe this email will help too.
http://bible-truths.com/email18.htm ---------------------------
Hundreds of totally deceived and spiritually blind Christians have told me that: "God does not want robots to love Him-- He desires people to love Him by their OWN FREE WILL." Oh really? And can the carnal mind indeed love God by its own nature; its own heart; its own desires? NO IT CAN'T! And so the very thing that Christians demand as necessary for our love for God to be genuine, is the very thing that totally disqualifies it from being genuine. The natural mind is totally incapable of loving God:
"For the carnal mind is enmity [deep-seated HATRED] AGAINST GOD..." (Rom. 8:7).
It all starts with God, not with us:
"We love Him [God] because He FIRST LOVED US" (I John 4:19).
God created mankind spiritually WEAK--subject to the lusts and sins of his own heart, so that man will learn that he CANNOT love God first; he cannot obey spiritual laws and commandments; he cannot please God; he cannot accomplish anything of lasting value through his wicked and deceitful heart. (Jer. 17:9). And therefore God's ways will justify His means. The rewards and the blessings are not even to be compared with the glory that God is creating in the human race (Rom. 8:18).
And so here is the answer to your question:
BEFORE spiritual conversion man FALSELY THINKS that he has free will and is for all intent and purpose a god unto himself.
AFTER spiritual conversion man will be eternally thankful that God never gave his such a foolish concept as "free will," or he would never ever realize the marvelous highest of power and glory that God has in mind for him.
And presently, you and some few others, are in between these two extremes of human understanding. I will pray for God to grant to you "spirit of wisdom" so that you will comprehend and apprehend the marvelous and mysterious working of our God.
God be with you,
Ray
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"How is it possible to HONESTLY love God from the Heart without free will, or is that just a choice. Ricky"
You might turn the question around and ask 'how is it possible to honestly love God with free will.' The carnal mind is enmity with God. It's not natural for us to love God. Nobody can know God enough to love Him except He drags them to that. Once He does, we find 'cause' to love God. It's His Grace AND His faith that allows us to know Him at all.
You accept, I'm assuming, that it's God who does the chosing, the calling, and the saving. It's not your will that does that, free or otherwise. We are to continue in the way we began.
You accept, I'm assuming, that the scripture gives many clear statements of the sovereignty of God over the will of man. There are many, many examples from Pharoah to Judas to Paul of how God limits our choices to the one He knows we will make. I've had a hard time, even with this understanding, putting myself into 'fellowship' with these examples, yet there they are. As they are, so am I.
We can see the hand of God working in the past--even our own pasts--to bring things to the point they are now. We can at least imagine being able to fathom that God made us our sex, our race, our nationality, our heredity, our afflictions and diseases, our talents, our intelligence and are able to give thanks for all of it, even if some of it has caused us problems and all of it limits our choices. Yet, we sometimes cannot accept that God continues to determine things through our actions, the actions of others, into the situations in which we find ourselves in this life...and that He will continue this until His purpose for making us is fulfilled.
It was enough at first for me to 'accept' this without much understanding. There are two practical things that have grown my understanding. One is a small statememnt made by Ray in an audio that encouraged us to 'Pray like it all depended on God, and live like it all depended on us'. That's a stop-gap, but it gave me considerable insight in how a person is supposed to live with this knowledge. The second has been this forum and mostly Ray himself where I see people believing the scripture concerning the will of God ACTIVE by choice, volunteering to get smaller so that He may grow larger.
I'm not through struggling either. And there are others still trying to come to understanding. One day we may figure out that our puny will cannot thwart the purpose of God and that we are not in control of even our little part of the universe. :)
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GOD ALWAYS ANSWER'S our PRAYER'S; HE Does Not Always Give us What (we ask for). HE ALWAYS GIVE'S us (What IS RIGHT).
Geo.
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its best to stay in Gods word and read for our selves what Gods word says.
And i wouldn't advise anyone to follow ray, as his teachings are just
Guide lines for us to study, we as individuals are accountable for our fellowship
with God in his word, and ray is accountable for teaching them.
John 14:26). But the comforter (counselor/Helper/Intercessor/advocate
Strenghtener/Standby). the Holy Spirit, Whom the father
Will send in My name, He will teach you all things. And He
will cause you to recall everything i have told you.
so as for doubts or anything that anyone maybe going through, Stay in Prayer
Stay in the Word and Stay in Gods Love. :)
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Does anyone ever have doubts that what we have learned is really the truth?
I have no doubt that we have learned the real truth for the most part, the vast majority of Ray's teaching.
There is a feeling I get though when reading BT and the forum that I don't agree with and that is that all church goers have to come out of the church or they couldn't be a chosen one. I think there are church people who are chosen but just haven't had their ears and eyes opened yet and may never in this life. There were a few people still in the Seven Churches that the Spirit did not upbraid.
I think it is just amazing the way God has the whole, everything, planned out before the foundation of the world.
I don't know if I'll be part of the first fruits or not but I'm not gonna worry about it, just keep on plugging away, trying to love, trying to obey.
Something that I would like to see go away is the use of "chosen". Somehow it is just awkard to talk to someone about "the called and chosen" as in "He may call you but not choose you" that is so tacky. How about "the acceptable ones or the preferred or favorite ones". Somehow that doesn't sound as conceited or haughty. Ok, just my little quirk :P
Love you all, Ray I
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oh I couldn't agree with you more on that sudject about being called then chosen, the bible clearly says
that we were chosen before the foundations of the world. (Eph 1:4,5).
their are other scriptures that correspond to that 1 above in my post ( who are the chosen??).
Cheers :)
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Great posts everyone, it helps to see everyone's experiences and know you are not the only one going through these trials. Kat, special thanks to you for digging up those different emails of Ray's. They are very helpful for review.
The great thing about Ray's writings is it is all clearly backed up with scripture in a logical consistent way. If people applied Ray's reasoning and scriptural references to mainstream Christianity, they would quickly see the error of their ways. Ray untangles the mess we've all been taught, but the untangling takes a while.
I think for me this is how my doubts come in. I'm a pretty obsessive compulsive logical kind of guy. If I figured this out, why doesn't everyone else figure it out? So my doubt kicks in, maybe its not everyone else that's wrong, but its me that's wrong. Then I reread Ray's stuff and the logic kicks in again and I realize most everyone else is wrong :)
But like I said, it is a mountain of peer pressure we are up against. It can be lonely.
It really is about digging deep. I think Samson mentioned this in another thread. To really understand this stuff, you have to dig deep. Digging deep is natural for my obsessive compulsive nature. But not everyone is like that.
The free will stuff is tricky. I think I get it figured out, but it is tough. Even with the emails you posted Kat, I can still see that it is easy to "blame" God for everything if you are not careful. Of course "blame" is the wrong word because that presupposes that God did something wrong. Every part of God's plan is necessary, and is there for a reason. Even the bad stuff.
Ricky, I will take a crack at your predestination/prayer question.
God has perfect foreknowledge, so he would know when you would be in need and praying. In fact he planned for that to happen. He set up the causes that led to you praying. And he also has a response planned for the prayer - either positive or negative.
But from your perspective, you are living "in the now" and pray for something. God planned that you would, and you do it without even realizing that God caused you to pray.
Its all part of his plan - He did this so we would be humbled and learn to trust and depend in God.
TTYL
Kevin
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I think the free will thing is so hard for us to grasp because it has been forever spoken about. Not only do you hear it in the churches but even the secular world talks about our free will.
But to me, free will and a Sovereign-All Knowing God cannot go together logically.
This is an analogy that came to me one day driving home thinking about free will.
If I told you that I, as a Mom, ran my home in a pretty orderly fashion with children, who although not perfect, obeyed me most of the time without much fuss. That my kids, even if needing to be disciplined at times, would go to bed when I said, make their beds, do their chores as I expected. You probably could accept that.
But then if I also told you that my kids were allowed to do ANYTHING they wanted, ANYTIME they wanted, would you still think my home had order?
Of course not. You can't have it both ways. Either someone is in charge with final say in the outcome, or there is chaos.
My point is just that if God truly knows everything and truly has plans for the world that cannot be thwarted, then it is impossible for me to be able to do whatever I wish.
I heard a preacher the other day on the radio teaching about how we can get outside of God's Will and then we knock others out of His will, etc. What a crock! God's Will for me and for the outcome of the world He created will not be changed by a pion like me! :-[
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No, but i had doubts for years about eternal torture in hell
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Hi, Marques
That was an awfully good post and you backed it up with 2 scriptures and they were from the double edged sword. You did good. I had the same feelings that you had of the scriptures you posted when I read them. Don't ask; I don't know why. I know how but not why. there is one more scripture that I would like to add that it will take some reading to even get a little bit out of it; but with meditation one can see there is more to this scripture than what meets the eye; and I believe it pertains to this subject "Does anyone have doubts?" This is what came to me when I read all of them. There were a number of members who posted some awesomely good posts. Some even with scripture; but all posts were from the heart. I love you guys.
I have one more scripture and here it is: COL 2:16 Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink or with regards to a religious festival, a new moon celebration or a sabbath day.
Love y'ans
Dewey & Paula said it
Goin' out on a limb for Jesus 'cause that's where the fruit's at
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Hi Ricky,
I wanted to add my two cents worth to this discussion because this is something that I've been marveling about lately. You asked "How is it possible to HONESTLY love God from the heart without free will? How can I? The answer is we can't. Neither you nor I, nor anyone can love God on our own with or without free will.
1Cor 2:14 For the natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised."
The carnal natural man simply cannot know or understand the spiritual. I've asked myself what proof do I really have that God exists. I cannot see Him, I cannot see a picture of Him, I cant email Him, or call Him on the phone. And I know noone else can either. All of my physical senses and experiences fail me when it comes to knowing God! What proof do I really have that the Scriptures are from Him. I don't know anyone who saw Jesus when He walked the earth, or saw Him resurrected.
Some would say believing in God is just a step above believing in Santa Claus or the easter bunny. What solid proof do I have to give them? I can't hand them a picture of Him or give them His address. Some would say it's just imagination - something that only exists in our minds, but not in reality.
But I know with my whole heart and mind and every fiber of my being that He exists. Why? I can't really explain it rationally!
At night I go into my bedroom to study and pray. My Father is in that room with me teaching me, listening to my prayer. Just as real as my husband who is watching tv on the other side of that door. My husband says he doesn't know if there is a god, but probably not. And he really has no interest in talking about it or thinking about it. He's just not interested.
Why do I know, feel, experience God's presence while my husband knows, feels, experiences nothing? There is nothing in me that makes me different from him. Why do I pray to Someone I cannot see, why do I spend endless hours studying to learn more about Someone I cannot prove exists? Why do I love with a passion Someone who's eyes I cannot look into, who I cannot embrace? There is only one answer. God wills this for me at this time. And He has made His will my will.
So how can I HONESTLY love God from the heart without free will? It is God's spirit living in me, making His will my will.
Of course, some would say there is another explanation - maybe I'm just crazy ::) :P ;D
Just some thoughts I've been meditating on.
Peace to you.
Cindy
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Hello Cindy, Thankyou, you have the best answer so far to the question. Dave in Tenn, You as well have helped, Thankyou. I can now see how this form works with the people who can break down what Ray says and explain it in ways that stupid ex- truck drivers like me can understand a little better. There are only certain people here that I read everything they say, PHIL 3:10 you sir are one of them. Thankyou all Ricky
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I inherit the carnal mind through Adam.
My carnal mind cannot please God.
My carnal mind desires to sin.
I can only choose from my desires and only God can change my desires.
The circumstances of my life cause the way I desire to sin. Ray says that in the right circumstance we would all be child molesters. If our circumstances are different we may desire to lie instead or drink or use drugs or be sexually immoral or self righteous etc..
The truth shows me that I am the beast.
God's discipline and chastening cause me to repent and I learn righteousness.
God's love and forgiveness when I can't even look at myself due to my sin causes me to desire to love him and obey his will.
He causes me to put off the old man with his deeds and put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created me.
For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son.
The process continues until I desire to love the LORD my God with all my heart and with all my soul and with all my strength and love my neighbor as myself.
He must increase, but I must decrease.
It is all caused by God.
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Legoman, thank you.
Just last night, I had my doubts. My doubts, I have found, are not found in the teachings themselves, but rather on the effect they have on me. What I mean is that before I knew these TRUTH (NO free-will, no hell, etc),I WORKED hard to ensure my salvation, maybe as a result of being afraid to go to hell. I prayed more, read the Bible more, and went to "church" almost daily.
But now that I understand (I hope I do understand), it seems to me that everything is meaningless. There's no pressure in me to do anything, be it to pray, or study the bible or fellowship. All this simply because it feels to me that, why should I do any of these, if already God knows how am I going to end. For example,
1. Why should I read the Bible if for me to understand it, I will need spiritual ears, but I cannot get spiritual ears of my own working but they can only be given to me by God. I cannot deserve to receive these ears but its a gift from God.
2. We are saved by grace through faith, and this faith is a gift. So what role do I have in my salvation? I might as well just sit and say, "May God save me when and how He wants to"!
When I look at my life right now, I wonder if I am not lost. It seems to me I was a better (depending on what better means) person before I knew these TRUTHS. And please note, I do acknowledge that they are TRUTH because when I read them and meditate upon them, they make perfect sense and are in line with what the Scriptures say and they are also in line with God's nature. I just don't understand the effect on me.
So yes I do have my doubts, and I cry to the LORD saying, "LORD you know my heart. If I am wrong, please correct me in love, and teach me to walk on your ways, for you know that I love you and have been seeking after you for years. Please help."
Will the doubts, ever end? I don't know, but God knows each man's heart. I hope that will count for something.
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Hi tebza4jesus,
Gal 2:16 knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.
I WORKED hard to ensure my salvation, maybe as a result of being afraid to go to hell. I prayed more, read the Bible more, and went to "church" almost daily.
These were your "works of the law," that before you knew the truth you were depending on for your salvation. That was the physical that must come first.
1Co 15:46 But it is not the spiritual which is first but the physical, and then the spiritual.
1. Why should I read the Bible if for me to understand it, I will need spiritual ears, but I cannot get spiritual ears of my own working but they can only be given to me by God. I cannot deserve to receive these ears but its a gift from God.
2. We are saved by grace through faith, and this faith is a gift. So what role do I have in my salvation? I might as well just sit and say, "May God save me when and how He wants to"!
When I look at my life right now, I wonder if I am not lost.
What you are receiving now is most certainly a gift, it is the "spiritual." It may seem so different at first, having the Holy Spirit working in us, that we may feel kind of lost. But now is when you can really start to learn the truth, because before you were blind and now your eyes are opened.
It's like if you could not read because your eyes were bad and someone gave you glasses, so you could read. Hopefully you wouldn't cast them aside, but use them. What you could now learn by reading would open up a whole new world to you, right. So now you can study the Scriptures with the 'new' open eyes that you have.
2Ti 2:15 Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
You can gain all the understanding and knowledge hidden in the Scriptures, only made available to us by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.
Col 2:2 That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgement of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ;
Col 2:3 In whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.
But even though it is a gift we actually do have to do something.
Php 2:12 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling;
v. 13 for God is at work in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.
So we are doing the studying and praying, but now it is Christ in us that gives us the spiritual understanding that we can gain LIFE.
Eph 3:14-21 For this reason I bow my knees to the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, from whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named, that He would grant you, according to the riches of His glory, to be strengthened with might through His Spirit in the inner man, that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith; that you, being rooted and grounded in love, may be able to comprehend with all the saints what is the width and length and depth and height-- to know the love of Christ which passes knowledge; that you may be filled with all the fullness of God.
Now to Him who is able to do exceedingly abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that works in us, to Him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus to all generations, forever and ever. Amen.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
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Just joined the forum… Wanted to respond many times before, but this topic was the “cause” for me to finally “drag” me to do it.
The only thing I can look at in my own life is my own experiences. There are too many examples in my life to look back on confirming God is in absolute control.
Since the last 3 to 4 years, I have become much more aware than ever that “free will” does not exist. In many ways it comforts me because whatever people I am in contact with in my life are there because God wills them to be part of it. Most of the time, if they rub me the wrong way, God uses them to teach me about His ways and how He is. When I used to harbor unforgiveness in my heart toward a person, even if it was just for a day, I was in all reality “murmuring” against God who wanted to teach me about patience, forbearance, long-suffering, kindness, forgiveness, etc. Now I am learning to forgive and let go immediately because God is really working behind the scenes:
"For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure." (Philip. 2:13).
Don’t get me wrong, I still fail, miserably at times, but when I stop and think that God is in charge and in control, I immediately relax, calm down, and forgive.
It’s been an interesting journey and discovery. One of the blessings of “salvation for all” is that I don’t have to agonize over the fact anymore if I will get to see my loved ones again some day. All my relatives live in Germany; I immigrated to this country in 1976… The burden of my “unsaved” family going to “Hell” was more than I could bear. This truth is one of those “THANK YOU, GOD!” experiences that have made me a much happier and content person without the ever present “guilt” hanging over me that I am somehow “responsible” for them.
Nice to be a part of this forum now… One of these days I will write about my journey in seeking and finding the truth a little more in detail.