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=> General Discussions => Topic started by: Roy Martin on October 13, 2009, 10:15:37 AM
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John 14:26
But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name,He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I have said to you.
John 14:15
If you love Me keep My commandments, And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper that He may abide with you forever, the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him, but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you.
This seems to be addressed to His Disciples because most of us in this world have to turn to men for truth.
I feel as if the Helper dwells in me. Something Spiritual definitely moves me and speaks to me and shows me things. Its when I can't understand what men are teaching that I rely on the Holy Spirit to clear it up for me of which sometimes is not what man teaches. I read a scripture without understanding. I study what man has to say about it and ask for help from others and get more scriptures tossed at me until I ask God, why is it that I have to depend on men to teach me when you promised the Holy Spirit to teach me, and dwell in me. I don't do this very often, in fact its only when I'm almost to the point of burnout of man's teachings and opinions that I do this, and when I do this it always seems to be answered, and gives me a feeling of being much more closer to God than before.
I think about the day of Pentecost and how the disciples and all of those people that were filled with the Holy Spirit, and people thought they were drunk, and how the disciples before this didn't understand anything Jesus had spoke to them, and in a blink of an eye they knew the truth.
I have never had that filled with the Holy Spirit as they received it, but my gosh I would love to have that.
Well here I am asking for opinions again of which will and should lead me back to God for an understanding of what it is I'm seeking.
If The Holy Spirit dwells in us, then why do we have to turn to man? I'm not referring to the bible of which is truth, but a mystery that only the Holy Spirit can reveal to us. Its all of mans teachings, even the scriptures that should lead us to that place where we want nothing less than the Holy Spirit to be our teacher. I am in no way putting any mans teachings down because I know that God uses everything to draw us to Him. I know He teaches us truth through men, but there is something in all mens teachings that draws us and connects us with the Holy Spirit to have that one on one, and not one on two.
I have a lot of scriptures to read about The Holy Spirit when it came upon someone. In most cases it was something very supernatural. I have had a couple of overwhelming feelings of which I have no doubt was the Holy Spirit letting me know its presence. I know that all is of God and that He leads us here and there, and that His word can show up in many places and in and through people. I know His word is here, and in Ray, and in all of us. The disciples walked with Jesus about 3 years and in an instant got truth. Some of us have been walking with Him 1-40 years yet only have a little of the truth of which we have to study, ask people, and listen to preachers that mislead us. Some of us reach complete burnout looking for understanding and truth. I speak for myself when I say that all of this leads me to that point of saying, "God I have had enough of this, where is the Helper that you promised"?
Little by little He gives me some of it, and it is good for awhile then back on the merry go round then back to God. My question is, was the Holy Spirit promised to just the disciples? My heart says no, but I have never received it as they and all of those on the day of Pentecost. What is the promise for if we still have to turn to man for the truth, and in our case, just one man Ray?. Please don't anyone get beside themselves and think that that is a put down, because its not in any way, I assure you its a positive and legitimate statement and question. The verses do read as if they were just for the disciples, but it just doesn't feel right. I just don't know, but I have to know the truth.
(The Spirit of Truth whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him.)
Peace
Roy
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My question is, was the Holy Spirit promised to just the disciples? My heart says no, but I have never received it as they and all of those on the day of Pentecost.
Hi Roy.
I think these email replys may help some.
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,305.0.html
COMMENT: When sin no longer "has dominion over you," you will know that God's Holy Spirit is operating in you. Not that you will not sin, but sin will not lord it over you; you will no longer be a slave to sin; you will not be fighting sin ever moment of your day; you will be given peace in that area of your life.
God be with you,
Ray
http://bible-truths.com/email10.htm#miracles ---Comforter *
Dear Cindy:
Many assume that the statements that Jesus made to his eleven apostles on the evening of His arrest, were a blanket statement to all believers to follow, for all time. This is not so.
Jesus did do many miracles through His apostles after His death and resurrection. He promised them the gift of the Holy Spirit (Comforter), which would give them faith and power to spread His gospel message.
This came true fifty days later on the Day of Pentecost. The apostles were given the gift of tongues so that they could even speak in foreign languages which none of them had ever studied. They were able to heal the sick. And they even RAISED THE DEAD. Peter and Paul both RAISED THE DEAD.
These special miracle gifts did not follow all generations of the church. Even later in the ministry of the apostles, God began to withdraw these gifts. No one was raised from the dead in their later ministry. Paul said that "tongues would cease" in I Cor. 13. Only "faith, hope [expectation] and charity [love]" were to "NOW remain...." Some of Paul best friends and servants in spreading the gospel were sick and not healed. Paul told his dear friend Timothy, to "take a little wine for thy stomach's sake, and thine OFT [MANY] INFIRMITIES. God did NOT heal them. Do we think that Paul did not even ask?
Many in the charismatic church try to make a carnival exhibition of such gifts, but I am afraid all they do is deceive.
However, with that said, does God no longer perform miracles or healings? Yes, He does. I have seen and experienced them. Does He always heal? Does He always alleviate our problems and trials? NO. Why should we pray for God to TAKE AWAY all the things that are absolutely NECESSARY FOR OUR FAITH AND PERFECTION?
Don't neglect to ask God for EVERYTHING you feel you should have. But don't be disappointed if God allows you to CONTINUE IN YOUR TRIALS. Sometimes He removes certain trials after a period of time. We do not know when and how or even if God will do this that or the other thing, so we keep praying. I ask for STRENGTH AND FAITH to face my trials and OVERCOME my flesh. I no longer pray for God to make me HEALTHY, WEALTHY AND WISE, with absolutely no price to pay for such privileges.
This site is an answer to prayer. My understanding of the Scriptures is an answer to prayer. Everything I have is an answer to prayer. I pray for others and many times, GOD ANSWERS MY PRAYERS! But I do NOT always heal the sick through my prayers, I do not make people wealthy through my prayers, and I have NEVER raised the dead through my prayers. So don't stop praying!! And ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS, thank God for all that you have.
And then, don't WORRY about anything. Phil. 4:6 is a terrible translation in the KJV. Instead of "Be careful in nothing..." it should read:
"DON'T WORRY ABOUT ANYTHING..."
God be with you,
Ray
Peace...Mark
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Thank you Mark. Gods word is Spirit, and the only way we can understand it is to be in Spirit. The only way we can be in Spirit is to have the Holy Spirit in us. Am I right about that?
The people of the old testament didn't have the Holy Spirit yet the Spirit came upon them. The Spirit of the Lord spoke to many of that time.
As I said, I'm just now getting into this study. There is much to read about this topic.
Maybe in this same topic we can discuss the lieing spirit that God sends to the pastors and the people that are deceived.
These pastors, or at least most of them think they are lead by the Holy Spirit. We confront them and its as if we are butting heads with God Himself. In fact we are doing just that because it is God that blinded them with this deceiving spirit. To them it feels right according to the spirit they have in them, just as it feels right to us with the truth that we believe, yet we use to believe as they did. Is it possible that the whole world is mislead in some things? We wouldn't know it if we were if God sent the spirit to deceive us.
All of this will tie in together of what I'm searching for.
Roy
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dear roy, thank you for your many posts and insight....you always seem to ask the tuff questions that are hard to put to words. i also had been wondering about why the the apostles had the ability to raise the dead, and do these amazing miracles, ect......and why it isn't done today. i had not read that particular email by Ray addressing this question. sometimes it does feel like God has withdrawn from us in this day and time.
thanks again,
lauriellen
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dear roy, thank you for your many posts and insight....you always seem to ask the tuff questions that are hard to put to words. i also had been wondering about why the the apostles had the ability to raise the dead, and do these amazing miracles, ect......and why it isn't done today. i had not read that particular email by Ray addressing this question. sometimes it does feel like God has withdrawn from us in this day and time.
thanks again,
lauriellen
Not true Lauriellen.The greatest gift that any human being can receive is the gift of Faith.Our God is the only source for our existence.We have to rely on Him to show us His ways,always.
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,1710.0.html
Dear Noxolo:
I would love to write a paper on "faith," but at present I am engrossed in several other projects. Let me "bottom line" it for you in a few statements.
Faith is the assurance that God's Word is Truth and that God will do all that He has promised. This assurance (faith) is a GIFT of God and cannot be obtained by any human endeavor (Eph. 2:8-9). Reading and hearing the Scriptures can increase your faith, BUT ONLY BECAUSE GOD SUPERNATURALLY GIVES YOU THAT FAITH AND ASSURANCE, as you read and hear. Through faith you will both know God's will and live God's will. You must go to God for faith--there is no other source of true spiritual faith and assurance of God's trustworthiness.
God be with you,
Ray
Peace...Mark
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Thank you Mark. Gods word is Spirit, and the only way we can understand it is to be in Spirit. The only way we can be in Spirit is to have the Holy Spirit in us. Am I right about that?
The people of the old testament didn't have the Holy Spirit yet the Spirit came upon them. The Spirit of the Lord spoke to many of that time.
As I said, I'm just now getting into this study. There is much to read about this topic.
Maybe in this same topic we can discuss the lieing spirit that God sends to the pastors and the people that are deceived.
These pastors, or at least most of them think they are lead by the Holy Spirit. We confront them and its as if we are butting heads with God Himself. In fact we are doing just that because it is God that blinded them with this deceiving spirit. To them it feels right according to the spirit they have in them, just as it feels right to us with the truth that we believe, yet we use to believe as they did. Is it possible that the whole world is mislead in some things? We wouldn't know it if we were if God sent the spirit to deceive us.
All of this will tie in together of what I'm searching for.
Roy
Roy,you are correct.
Romans 8:9
9 You, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ.
Ephesians 1:13–14
13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s
Absolutely.
2Th 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
Romans 1:28 And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper,
Peace...Mark
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John 14:26
But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name,He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I have said to you.
John 14:15
If you love Me keep My commandments, And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper that He may abide with you forever, the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him, but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you.
This seems to be addressed to His Disciples because most of us in this world have to turn to men for truth.
I feel as if the Helper dwells in me. Something Spiritual definitely moves me and speaks to me and shows me things. Its when I can't understand what men are teaching that I rely on the Holy Spirit to clear it up for me of which sometimes is not what man teaches. I read a scripture without understanding. I study what man has to say about it and ask for help from others and get more scriptures tossed at me until I ask God, why is it that I have to depend on men to teach me when you promised the Holy Spirit to teach me, and dwell in me. I don't do this very often, in fact its only when I'm almost to the point of burnout of man's teachings and opinions that I do this, and when I do this it always seems to be answered, and gives me a feeling of being much more closer to God than before.
I think about the day of Pentecost and how the disciples and all of those people that were filled with the Holy Spirit, and people thought they were drunk, and how the disciples before this didn't understand anything Jesus had spoke to them, and in a blink of an eye they knew the truth.
I have never had that filled with the Holy Spirit as they received it, but my gosh I would love to have that.
Well here I am asking for opinions again of which will and should lead me back to God for an understanding of what it is I'm seeking.
If The Holy Spirit dwells in us, then why do we have to turn to man? I'm not referring to the bible of which is truth, but a mystery that only the Holy Spirit can reveal to us. Its all of mans teachings, even the scriptures that should lead us to that place where we want nothing less than the Holy Spirit to be our teacher. I am in no way putting any mans teachings down because I know that God uses everything to draw us to Him. I know He teaches us truth through men, but there is something in all mens teachings that draws us and connects us with the Holy Spirit to have that one on one, and not one on two.
I have a lot of scriptures to read about The Holy Spirit when it came upon someone. In most cases it was something very supernatural. I have had a couple of overwhelming feelings of which I have no doubt was the Holy Spirit letting me know its presence. I know that all is of God and that He leads us here and there, and that His word can show up in many places and in and through people. I know His word is here, and in Ray, and in all of us. The disciples walked with Jesus about 3 years and in an instant got truth. Some of us have been walking with Him 1-40 years yet only have a little of the truth of which we have to study, ask people, and listen to preachers that mislead us. Some of us reach complete burnout looking for understanding and truth. I speak for myself when I say that all of this leads me to that point of saying, "God I have had enough of this, where is the Helper that you promised"?
Little by little He gives me some of it, and it is good for awhile then back on the merry go round then back to God. My question is, was the Holy Spirit promised to just the disciples? My heart says no, but I have never received it as they and all of those on the day of Pentecost. What is the promise for if we still have to turn to man for the truth, and in our case, just one man Ray?. Please don't anyone get beside themselves and think that that is a put down, because its not in any way, I assure you its a positive and legitimate statement and question. The verses do read as if they were just for the disciples, but it just doesn't feel right. I just don't know, but I have to know the truth.
(The Spirit of Truth whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him.)
Peace
Roy
Roy
don't get me wrong but i have to ask, have you waited in the city?
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Kenny to answer your question as you know will require some searching on my part. Your tricky my friend, answering a question with a question. ;D
Roy
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Roy, I have often thought the same things as you. Great post. The emails given here on this post answers many of my questions.
I know, for years God has been growing my faith in him. But, for years I did not understand much about why I was going through so many things.
But, now I know the purpose is for my good.
When, we were told my niece has cancer and I knew she needed our help. I prayed to God that I would get my disability, that I had waited for 3 and 1/2 years. I did not want it for selfish reasons. I knew she might need help and we needed a good car. A couple weeks after that prayer I received a letter in the mail that my disabilty was approved and did not need a hearing. When, I got the letter I noticed that it had been decided a few weeks before we knew she had cancer. But, the timing of the letter was perfect. God caused me to pray this. He answered my prayer before I even prayed it.
This trial has really grown my faith in him. I trust him that no matter what he knows what is best. We could not even believe in him without his Spirit.
He is with us rather we feel it or not. What, Ray has taught us about prayer is certainly coming true to me. God was teaching me patience those years waiting on my disability and it came at Gods pefect time.
When, God shows us how involved he is in our life, that speaks volumes. You, know you have his Spirit when he builds your faith and you hate your sin.
He is working in us in many ways and sometimes it takes a while before we see it. Just, the fact that God led me in here and all the rest of us shows that he worked a miracle on us. I want to be healed from my sins. As for my Health, if he grants that it would be wonderful.
Last night, I had to thank him for all my blessings and how he has increased my faith. The peace he has given me that I never had while lost in the church system is amazing. So, I know the spirit is working in us. They all saw physical things such as healings and things. It is far greater when they can see God changing a person from there wicked ways.
Great post and the emails from Ray are awesome.
In His Love
Marlene
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I'm with you 100% Marlene.
The church I came out of, and the people in it give the same testimonies as we do. They don't know and believe as we do,and nothing in the world except for God could convince them that they are lead by a spirit other than the Holy Spirit. They feel guilt and love and seek God and do all the same things that we do. The difference is that they believe what we believe to be a lie. They pray and testify that God laid it on their heart to do this or that. They believe that what we believe is a lie.
There is nothing in a million years that could convince me to go back to the lies that the Pastor teaches.
Is anyone getting my point in this reply that makes me wonder who has the Holy Spirit. Them or us.
We know some things they don't know, but does that mean they don't have the Holy Spirit?
Peace
Roy
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dear roy, thank you for your many posts and insight....you always seem to ask the tuff questions that are hard to put to words. i also had been wondering about why the the apostles had the ability to raise the dead, and do these amazing miracles, ect......and why it isn't done today. i had not read that particular email by Ray addressing this question. sometimes it does feel like God has withdrawn from us in this day and time.
thanks again,
lauriellen
Hi Roy, lauriellen,
We have much Greater Spiritual gifts; raising the Spiritually dead, blind, lame and deaf.
Joh 14:12 (MKJV)
Truly, truly, I say to you, He who believes on Me, the works that I do he shall do also, and greater works than these he shall do, because I go to My Father.
Remember, anything we do is OF GOD THE FATHER.
Joh 5:19 (MKJV)
Then Jesus answered and said to them, Truly, truly, I say to you, The Son can do nothing of Himself but what He sees the Father do. For whatever things He does, these also the Son does likewise.
Act 3:12 (MKJV)
And seeing this, Peter answered the people, Men, Israelites, why do you marvel at this? Or why do you stare at us, as though we had made this man to walk by our own power or holiness?
george :).
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Kenny to answer your question as you know will require some searching on my part. Your tricky my friend, answering a question with a question. ;D
Roy
i really am not trying to be tricky, your own avatar shows the answer, it starts as a seed and the grows in stages to a full grown tree with many branches and leaves and in the end it is a mature tree that will continue to mature even more with the passage of time as the seasons change(even in nature God does the pruning with the elements) it will change and adapt to live to its fullest.
just as we will with the pruning of the Holly spirit.
My friend i have watched your prunings for years.
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Kenny I know you weren't trying to be tricky, and yes you have seen a tree grow and wither with the seasons. Good analogy Kenny.
Roy
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Hi Roy,
Titus 3:3 For we ourselves were also once foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving various lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful and hating one another.
All people first live in darkness and deception it is only when they receive the Holy Spirit/Comforter that their eyes are opened to the truth.
Eph 5:8 For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Walk as children of light
God gives us His Holy Spirit, but then He want us to really have a desire to know the truth and we have to dig for it like a "hidden treasure in a field" (Matt. 13). Notice the treasure is "hidden" and not out there for all to see and find. The only ones that can and will find it are those He has destined to, but there are only a few who will make it onto that narrow path. When He has brought those to the place where He wants them to be, then He will reveal Himself to them and teach them and they will know they are His sheep.
John 10:27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.
v. 28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.
v. 29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father's hand.
v. 30 I and My Father are one."
John 15:16 You did not choose Me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit, and that your fruit should remain, that whatever you ask the Father in My name He may give you.
Once the Holy Spirit is indwelling then God will work through you to bear fruit and this is the way we can know someonr is a true believer, by their fruit.
There is nothing in a million years that could convince me to go back to the lies that the Pastor teaches.
This statement you made indicates that you can see the fruit of the pastor of the church, the lies and contradictions. But as you said;
They feel guilt and love and seek God and do all the same things that we do.
Yes they do look a lot like a believer, doesn't "Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light." (2 Cor. 11:14), so too does these pastors appear as one of the sheep. But Jesus warns us about them...
Mat 7:15 "Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves.
v. 16 You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles?
v. 17 Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit.
v. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit.
v. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
v. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them.
Paul also warns us.
Acts 20:29 For I know this, that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock.
Eph 5:8 For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Walk as children of light
v. 9 (for the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness, righteousness, and truth),
v. 10 finding out what is acceptable to the Lord.
v. 11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
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http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,305.0.html
COMMENT: When sin no longer "has dominion over you," you will know that God's Holy Spirit is operating in you. Not that you will not sin, but sin will not lord it over you; you will no longer be a slave to sin; you will not be fighting sin ever moment of your day; you will be given peace in that area of your life.
[/b][/u]
http://bible-truths.com/email10.htm#miracles ---Comforter *
...However, with that said, does God no longer perform miracles or healings? Yes, He does. I have seen and experienced them. Does He always heal? Does He always alleviate our problems and trials? NO. Why should we pray for God to TAKE AWAY all the things that are absolutely NECESSARY FOR OUR FAITH AND PERFECTION?
Don't neglect to ask God for EVERYTHING you feel you should have. But don't be disappointed if God allows you to CONTINUE IN YOUR TRIALS. Sometimes He removes certain trials after a period of time. We do not know when and how or even if God will do this that or the other thing, so we keep praying. I ask for STRENGTH AND FAITH to face my trials and OVERCOME my flesh. I no longer pray for God to make me HEALTHY, WEALTHY AND WISE, with absolutely no price to pay for such privileges.
This site is an answer to prayer. My understanding of the Scriptures is an answer to prayer. Everything I have is an answer to prayer. I pray for others and many times, GOD ANSWERS MY PRAYERS! But I do NOT always heal the sick through my prayers, I do not make people wealthy through my prayers, and I have NEVER raised the dead through my prayers. So don't stop praying!! And ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS, thank God for all that you have.
And then,
don't WORRY about anything. Phil. 4:6 is a terrible translation in the KJV. Instead of "Be careful in nothing..." it should read:
"DON'T WORRY ABOUT ANYTHING..."
and that "not worrying", THAT IS FAITH in God the Father! and, we may say that is easier said than done, BUT, it IS POSSIBLE. He has made it possible for us to not worry about anything. if we have 'this faith' we have it through His Spirit within us. and when His Spirit is working in us, guiding us, we WILL get to the point in our lives where "sin no longer has dominion over us, where sin is not lording over us, whereby we give in to the lusts of the flesh. through HIS SPIRIT operating in us WE CAN reach that time in our walk with our God and Father when we are no longer fighting sin every day of our lives. through HIM we have armor (eph. 6:10-17), to put on each day we get out of bed, and with THAT ARMOR we can STAND STRONG in our faith in HIM.
our Father God knew we would need a Savior, He knew we would be bombarded with all kinds of things in our lives for which we would need a Helper/Comforter. He knew there would be times when we felt like orphans in the storm, but He knew He would never leave us or forsake us, because He knew/knows that we cannot ever grow into His Image without Him within us.
claudia
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I would be lying if I said yea! I got it, but that would be a lie. Its a little bit of this and a little of that and a whole lot of Holy Spirit.
I want to make it clear and known that I very much respect and appreciate all replies to all of my questions and topics.Each one is a door of opportunity. They are like algebra in a way. To get the answer, one has to know or use a formula.
I reread my original post several times and could see that its possible that I came off as offensive to some by having to come to people for answers, or sounded as if I was trying to discredit people. No,No that was not what I was conveying or implying. I admit that I would like to get it straight from the Holy Spirit every time, but it seldom works that way. Rarely, maybe never does one persons reply answer a question for me.
As I said, its all about doors being opened. You know how one door leads to another kind of thing.
There has been several threads going on that has inspired a veracious appetite in me. I love it when I get this kind of hunger going on. Its been awhile. For the past 4-6 months I have been sort of burnt out with no appetite, but I wanted to be hungry. I would ask God whats going on, and bam now I'm starving.
Anyway, thanks to everyone on this forum that takes the time to try to lead us to the truth.
I'm not through with this topic which is actually multiple topics. I would appreciate more input. Thanks in advance.
A few months ago I took and irrigation exam. The only way to get each answer was to use one of three formulas. There was no way around these formulas. It was aggravating and just seemed not right to have to use these formulas. Why couldn't they have questions that didn't require a formula? Well that's just the way it is and has to be to be able to understand an irrigation system and explain it in every detail to someone regardless of what their question might be. Gods word, Holy Spirit, people, meditation and prayer.Its all a formula.
Peace
Roy
P.S. Before anyone asked; I flunked the exam, but get 2 more chances.
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Gods word, Holy Spirit, people, meditation and prayer.Its all a formula.
Roy. Here is a formula that has the Holy Spirit written all over it ;).
GWT
1 Corinthians 12
1 Brothers and sisters, I don't want there to be any misunderstanding concerning spiritual gifts. 2 You know that when you were unbelievers, every time you were led to worship false gods you were worshiping gods who couldn't even speak. 3 So I want you to know that no one speaking by God's Spirit says, "Jesus is cursed." No one can say, "Jesus is Lord," except by the Holy Spirit.
4 There are different spiritual gifts, but the same Spirit gives them. 5 There are different ways of serving, and yet the same Lord is served. 6 There are different types of work to do, but the same God produces every gift in every person. 7 The evidence of the Spirit's presence is given to each person for the common good of everyone. 8 The Spirit gives one person the ability to speak with wisdom. The same Spirit gives another person the ability to speak with knowledge. 9 To another person the same Spirit gives courageous faith. To another person the same Spirit gives the ability to heal. 10 Another can work miracles. Another can speak what God has revealed. Another can tell the difference between spirits. Another can speak in different kinds of languages. Another can interpret languages. 11 There is only one Spirit who does all these things by giving what God wants to give to each person.
12 For example, the body is one unit and yet has many parts. As all the parts form one body, so it is with Christ. 13 By one Spirit we were all baptized into one body. Whether we are Jewish or Greek, slave or free, God gave all of us one Spirit to drink.
14 As you know, the human body is not made up of only one part, but of many parts. 15 Suppose a foot says, "I'm not a hand, so I'm not part of the body!" Would that mean it's no longer part of the body? 16 Or suppose an ear says, "I'm not an eye, so I'm not a part of the body!" Would that mean it's no longer part of the body? 17 If the whole body were an eye, how could it hear? If the whole body were an ear, how could it smell? 18 So God put each and every part of the body together as he wanted it. 19 How could it be a body if it only had one part? 20 So there are many parts but one body. 21 An eye can't say to a hand, "I don't need you!" Or again, the head can't say to the feet, "I don't need you!" 22 The opposite is true. The parts of the body that we think are weaker are the ones we really need. 23 The parts of the body that we think are less honorable are the ones we give special honor. So our unpresentable parts are made more presentable. 24 However, our presentable parts don't need this kind of treatment. God has put the body together and given special honor to the part that doesn't have it. 25 God's purpose was that the body should not be divided but rather that all of its parts should feel the same concern for each other. 26 If one part of the body suffers, all the other parts share its suffering. If one part is praised, all the others share in its happiness.
27 You are Christ's body and each of you is an individual part of it. 28 In the church God has appointed first apostles, next prophets, third teachers, then those who perform miracles, then those who have the gift of healing, then those who help others, those who are managers, and those who can speak in a number of languages. 29 Not all believers are apostles, are they? Are all of them prophets? Do all of them teach? Do all of them perform miracles 30 or have gifts of healing? Can all of them speak in other languages or interpret languages? 31 You only want the better gifts, but I will show you the best thing to do.
Peace...Mark
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Most excellent Mark. Thank you.
Roy
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Hello Roy.
Your thoughts are the same as mine sometimes. I Get sick of hearing people say they have the
Holy Spirit. I don't think any one has the Holy Spirit today. If they did Why don't they,
( cast out demons in Christ name, lay hands on the sick and they recover? ) Mark 16:16-18.
I also get sick of people putting a person in front of God and His word. Like when you ask
someone a question they refur to their teacher and what he says rather than God's word.
I am just trying to endure till the end.
Be Happy. EJW
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Hello EJW,
I hear what your saying and understand, but I have to make sure you aren't misunderstanding my post.
I'm not putting teachers down in no way. All of the disciples were teachers. Ray is a teacher. All of us that are parents are teachers. I am a teacher to my wife, and she is a teacher to me. We are all members of the body. I do not ever put mans word before Gods, but man wrote Gods word, and then men teach what they believe what the Spirit has shown them about Gods word. We believe it or not, but its up to the Spirit to discern if its right or wrong. Sometimes I don't know which Spirit to listen to. I have to rely on the Holy Spirit and trust that I will be lead in the right direction. I was lead to Babylon thinking it was truth and all of God of which it was because the flesh doesn't go looking for God. Nothing could have opened my eyes or called me out of Babylon except for the Holy Spirit, and it lead me here. I don't know that this is where it will keep me, but here I am and here you are. While I'm here, I will learn all I can that the Spirit wants me to know, learn, and understand.
Peace to You
Roy
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If The Holy Spirit dwells in us, then why do we have to turn to man? I'm not referring to the bible of which is truth, but a mystery that only the Holy Spirit can reveal to us. Its all of mans teachings, even the scriptures that should lead us to that place where we want nothing less than the Holy Spirit to be our teacher. I am in no way putting any mans teachings down because I know that God uses everything to draw us to Him. I know He teaches us truth through men, but there is something in all mens teachings that draws us and connects us with the Holy Spirit to have that one on one, and not one on two.
1 Cor 1:19-21 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent. Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?
For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
1 Cor 3:5-9 Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man? I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase. So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.
Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour. For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building.
Roy, the Holy Spirit is what opens up your understanding of God's truths, through whatever minister He is using...God gives the increase, not any man's teaching.
I have a lot of scriptures to read about The Holy Spirit when it came upon someone. In most cases it was something very supernatural. I have had a couple of overwhelming feelings of which I have no doubt was the Holy Spirit letting me know its presence. I know that all is of God and that He leads us here and there, and that His word can show up in many places and in and through people. I know His word is here, and in Ray, and in all of us. The disciples walked with Jesus about 3 years and in an instant got truth. Some of us have been walking with Him 1-40 years yet only have a little of the truth of which we have to study, ask people, and listen to preachers that mislead us. Some of us reach complete burnout looking for understanding and truth. I speak for myself when I say that all of this leads me to that point of saying, "God I have had enough of this, where is the Helper that you promised"?
Being led by the Spirit is definitely from God, but it is not always revealed by a 'rushing wind' in the scriptures. The Lord tells us we will know them (whether of God or of Satan) by their works/fruit [Matt 7:14-20]. You know from what comes OUT of them, not what they may claim came UNTO them.
Little by little He gives me some of it, and it is good for awhile then back on the merry go round then back to God. My question is, was the Holy Spirit promised to just the disciples? My heart says no, but I have never received it as they and all of those on the day of Pentecost. What is the promise for if we still have to turn to man for the truth, and in our case, just one man Ray?. Please don't anyone get beside themselves and think that that is a put down, because its not in any way, I assure you its a positive and legitimate statement and question. The verses do read as if they were just for the disciples, but it just doesn't feel right. I just don't know, but I have to know the truth.
(The Spirit of Truth whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him.)
Peace
Roy
No, the Holy Spirit was not promised to 'only' the disciples who physically walked with Christ. Again, you have the Spirit indwelling in you in the same measure as the good fruit/works you produce.
It takes the Spirit of God to turn anyone from the lies of Satan to believe that God is LOVE.
It takes the Spirit of God to turn anyone to believe that God will save all humanity.
It takes the Spirit of God to turn anyone from the fable of 'free will' and understand that it is the HEART that causes us to will and to do...God either softens or hardens our heart for His Will and Purpose. [Rom 9:18, Phil 2:13]
Etc, Etc...
As I said, I'm just now getting into this study. There is much to read about this topic.
Maybe in this same topic we can discuss the lieing spirit that God sends to the pastors and the people that are deceived.
These pastors, or at least most of them think they are lead by the Holy Spirit. We confront them and its as if we are butting heads with God Himself. In fact we are doing just that because it is God that blinded them with this deceiving spirit.
No Roy, we are not butting heads with God Himself, seeing that HE is the very one who sends His ministers to speak His truth:
Rom 10:13-17 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
How is it 'beautiful' to proclaim the gospel if we are simply butting heads with God? Again, God gives the increase in growing His vineyard...our position is only to water & plant, not fall into vanity that we could do it better or that it is a futile exercise.
To them it feels right according to the spirit they have in them, just as it feels right to us with the truth that we believe, yet we use to believe as they did.
You're right Roy, we did USED TO believe as they did, but then a change happens in our lives:
Eph 2:2-10 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;) And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. For by grace [grace - teaching us to live Godly and righteous (Titus 2:11-12)] are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
Is it possible that the whole world is mislead in some things? We wouldn't know it if we were if God sent the spirit to deceive us.
All of this will tie in together of what I'm searching for.
The whole world is deceived [Rev 12:9] by that wicked spirit, but the Elect will not be deceived [Matt 24:24, Mark 13:22]. When we rely on anything but the Spirit of God, we'll never be sure of anything. That's what faith does and why God gives it to us...to BELIEVE what He says, with conviction.
Heb 11:1 Faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen [ASV]
Sorry to hear about your exam...I take exams to further myself in my field of work and get frustrated if I fall short.
Hope any of this helps,
Marques
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Yes Marques, very helpful. Thank you so much for taking the time to bring all of these scriptures into view of this topic. It was nice the way you addressed each one of my questions. I will of course re-read them, and all replies; to put into perspective to my understanding. Have a great day.
Roy
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Hello EJW,
I hear what your saying and understand, but I have to make sure you aren't misunderstanding my post.
I'm not putting teachers down in no way. All of the disciples were teachers. Ray is a teacher. All of us that are parents are teachers. I am a teacher to my wife, and she is a teacher to me. We are all members of the body. I do not ever put mans word before Gods, but man wrote Gods word, and then men teach what they believe what the Spirit has shown them about Gods word. We believe it or not, but its up to the Spirit to discern if its right or wrong. Sometimes I don't know which Spirit to listen to. I have to rely on the Holy Spirit and trust that I will be lead in the right direction. I was lead to Babylon thinking it was truth and all of God of which it was because the flesh doesn't go looking for God. Nothing could have opened my eyes or called me out of Babylon except for the Holy Spirit, and it lead me here. I don't know that this is where it will keep me, but here I am and here you are. While I'm here, I will learn all I can that the Spirit wants me to know, learn, and understand.
Peace to You
Roy
Roy, Thanks for your reply.
I have a question,
When I was a young man and wanted to get right with God, I started going to the Pentecostal church,
( the way I was raised ) After much study I didn't believe they was the true church.
And I heard the radio church of God and was drawn to it and became a member for several years.
Then a few years ago I was drawn to the forum. and through much study I have found there is a few
incorrect things with all of these. ( and have proof )
Have you heard of Joyce Myer ?
I have heard her say, " God spoke to my heart " " The Holy Spirit spoke to me " which I think is a LIE.
Now for my question. How do you know when the Holy Spirit is trying to tell you something?
There is a lot of good people out there that do good, and some will say the Holy Spirit told me to
do this or that. and it turned out to be a good thing. I Don't think the Holy Spirit is telling the people
in Babylon any thing.
Peace to you Be Happy.
EJW
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Now for my question. How do you know when the Holy Spirit is trying to tell you something?
There is a lot of good people out there that do good, and some will say the Holy Spirit told me to
do this or that. and it turned out to be a good thing. I Don't think the Holy Spirit is telling the people
in Babylon any thing.
Peace to you Be Happy.
EJW
We are to know what the Holy Spirit is saying to us by comparing spiritual with spiritual. By comparing what the Holy Spirit leads us to do compared to the Word of God. There should be a spiritual match, both the scriptures and the Holy Spirit lead us into righteousness. They will not contradict one another.
2 Tim 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness
Titus 2:11-12 The grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
1 Cor 2:12-13 We have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
Hope this helps,
Marques
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Now for my question. How do you know when the Holy Spirit is trying to tell you something?
Just as Marques stated...By comparing what the Holy Spirit leads us to do compared to the Word of God
A few more verse...:) Hope this helps some.
Acts 5:32 We are witnesses of these things, and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey him.”
John 15:26 "When the Helper comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, that is the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father, He will testify about Me,
Romans 8:16 The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God,
1 John 4:6 We are from God; he who knows God listens to us; he who is not from God does not listen to us. By this we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error.
John 14: 15“If you love me, you will obey what I command. 16And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counselor to be with you forever"ages"/"eons."— 17the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you. 18I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. 19Before long, the world will not see me anymore, but you will see me. Because I live, you also will live. 20 On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you. 21Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me. He who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and show myself to him.”
Peace...Mark
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Great scriptures Mark and Marques. Thank you.
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Rom 1:20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse,
We have all of nature around us as a witness that there is a creator and no need for a word spoken or written to verify that. The fact that this world is here should be a clear indication that God exist.
Now when the Holy Spirit is given to a person it is to teach them beyond the superfical and into "the deep things of God."
1Co 2:10 But God has revealed them to us through His Spirit. For the Spirit searches all things, yes, the deep things of God.
v. 11 For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God.
When your eyes are opened to the truth, it's like the light bulb is turned on in the darkness. The Holy Spirit takes us far beyond the things that can be understood on our own, whether in study or by meditation.
John 14:26 But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you.
Now as a teacher the Holy Spirit is giving the understanding needed to prepare those of the Elect to rule with Christ. This training is done thought everything that happens in life, it's all a lesson. But we have all of these Scriptures preserved down through the centuries that reveal the words of the very Apostles, which are a priceless help in our learning. This is the way that God designed it to be, people put down in a physical written form their very own thoughts and in this way we have their exact thoughts (in the original anyway) right now to study. In this way God has provided the Scriptures to us and in this way we now can learn from Paul and the other Apostles themselves. But it requires our participation, we must read and study what is provided.
2Ti 2:15 Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
So we see our reading and studying is good, because it requires not only the desire to know this truth, but our active participation. Is this the way we "show ourself approved unto God," by putting forth the effort ourself and not just waiting on Him to zap it in our minds? I think it requires a deligent effort every day of prayer, meditation and study... and living it of course. When the Holy Spirit is indwelling it will guide you and in this way we "work out your own salvation."
Php 2:12 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling;
v. 13 for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.
mercy, peace and love
Kat