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=> Off Topic Discussions => Topic started by: loretta on July 30, 2013, 05:20:25 AM
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In a trending article under the same title, at Crosswalk.com, Jennifer LeClaire is quoted as saying
"Some women—and I am talking about so-called "mature believers," not lost souls or baby Christians—come into God’s sanctuary on Sunday morning wearing clothes you might rather expect to see them wearing at a dance club on Saturday night. Their blouses cling to their bodies, their necklines dip so low and stretch so wide that they reveal cleavage, and the slits up the sides of their skirts offer more than an innocent glimpse of their thighs. Again, I’m not talking about sinners seeking God or new believers who plain don’t know better. I’m talking about those who claim to be "born-again, baptized, blood-bought" (even tongue-talking) members of the church!"
The answer seems pretty obvious to me, because the church is not called out of the world. Although they call themselves born-again, baptized, blood-bought, tongue-talking Christians!
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Yes they will be having fashions shows next - no surprise for the church
Rhys
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Yeupers.
"The answer seems pretty obvious to me, because the church is not called out of the world."
They only want Christ's name to take away their shame and nothing else, because they want to wear their own garments (works and righteousness) and eat their own food (their antichrist doctrines).
I love those guys... I used to be one of them (BIG TIME). I want them to see past the veil so badly (and they eventually will), but I know it's all in the Father's plan and perfect timing. He did it for me, in which I was completely and totally blind... I know He will eventually do it for them too! And that's a comforting thought. :)
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Could it all stem from the source of the synagogue of Satan? The following is from The Lake of Fire - Part X:
The synagogue of Satan is located in the churches—in The Church!
"…you have tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and have found them liars" (Rev. 2:2.)
Where did the Ephesians try those false, lying, apostles? In some pagan temple or church down the street, or across town, or in some foreign land? Or maybe in the pagan religion of the Roman occupation? No, in the Church. Jesus Christ says:
"Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write… thou have tried them which say they are apostles [in the church of Ephesus], and are not" (Rev. 2:1a & 2b.)
Where did Jesus know these lying apostles? Why, in the Church, of course. Of what consequence would "lying apostles" of some pagan religion be to the churches of God in Asia?
And where did Jesus say the synagogue of Satan is located? Same place—in the Church:
"And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write… I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews [in the Smyrna church], and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan… And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write… I will make them of the synagogue of Satan [in the Philadelphia church], and are not but do lie…" (Rev. 2:8 & 9; 3:7 & 9.)
All seven of the churches were well aware of many pagan gods and pagan religions. These seven cities in Asia were filled with MANY PAGAN GODS.
The non-believing Ephesians worshipped Diana, who was associated with Artemis. Smyrna had temples to Apollo, Asclepia, Aphrodite, Cybele, Emperor Tiberius, and Zeus, and maybe most important of all, the Temple of Athena. Pergamum worshiped Zeus, Olympus, Athena, Dionysus, Asclepius ("The Saviour",) and also the God-Serpent and the God-Bull. Thyatira worshiped the Emperor, Thyatiran, Tyrimnos, and Pallas Athena. Sardis worshiped the goddess Artemis, and both goddesses Artemis and Cybele were commemorated on their local coinage. Philadelphia worshiped the sun god and serpent gods, although Dionysis was their major god. Laodicea worshiped Zeus Azeus and Men Karou.
Were these the false apostles and lying Jews of the synagogue of Satan. Was it the priests of these pagan gods and religions of the seven cities in Asia that God was warning the churches about?
Since when are the priests of paganism called APOSTLES? Since when are the followers of pagan religions and pagan gods called LYING JEWS? Since when are the temples of Zeus and Athena and Diana called SYNAGOGUES? No, these false apostles and lying Jews of the synagogue of Satan are in the churches of God.
And isn’t it ironic that in the two congregations that religious chart-makers tell us had NO spiritual flaws whatsoever, we find those residing who are specifically called lying Jews? No, Smyrna and Philadelphia, down through the centuries, have exactly the same spiritual flaws and heresies as did all of the other five churches of Asia.
THE THRONE OF SATAN THE DEVIL ALSO LOCATED
Now then, as the false apostles, and lying Jews, and synagogue of Satan are all located in the Church, where do you suppose we would find Satan’s throne, and Satan’s dwelling place to be located? Yes, that’s right: In the Church. Here is the Scriptural proof found in the messages to the church at Smyrna and Pergamos:
"Fear none of those things which you shall suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison…" (Rev. 2:10.)
"I know your works and where you dwell, even where [the same place where] Satan’s seat [Greek: throne] is… were Satan [also] dwells" (Rev. 2:13.)
Satan cannot imprison members of the Church unless Satan is in the Church. His throne is in the Church. His dwelling place is in the Church. His synagogue is in the Church.
And think not that Satan merely makes an occasional visit to the Church. No, Satan is permanently in the Church until God removes him. The Greek word from which the translators give us "dwelleth" in the KJV is kataoideo, and its meaning is: "To house permanently" (Strong’s Greek Dictionary, page 136.) Satan not only has his false apostles in the Church, and his congregation of unconverted lying Jews in the Church, and his synagogue in the Church, and his very throne in the Church, but Satan himself dwells permanently in the Church.
WHERE IS PERGAMOS TODAY?
Why would God choose the church of Pergamos/Pergamum as a physical type of the spiritual city where Satan really dwells and has his throne? We read this historical account of Pergamum:
"Pergamum, founded no later than 399 BC, became the capital city of the Roman province in Asia giving the traveler the impression of a royal city, the home of authority. Located about 60 miles north of Smyrna and 15 miles from the Aegean Sea, Pergamum was a center of learning, medicine, and religious books. The library, rivaling the Alexandrian library, drew many princes, priests, and scholars. Noted for marble carving, it excelled the other six cities in architectural beauty."
A royal city of authority with maybe the greatest library in the world. A city of learning, medicine, and religion. More excellent than all of the other Six Church Cities. Clearly, this city had all of the physical attributes that would make it suitable for the throne and dwelling place of Satan.
But remember: Revelation is a signified book of symbols that stand for spiritual things. The physical city of Pergamus was only a symbolic representation of something higher, something more profound, something of grand proportions. Satan does not reside or dwell or have his throne and his synagogue in West Asia in a demolished old city name Pergamus. Pergamus mean fortified. It comes from the word purgos (Strong’s #4444, which means "burgh; a tower or castle" page 219.) Satan dwells (permanently resides) in the Church. But Satan dwells in a city that is, was, and will be. We will later identify this city described in Rev. 2:13.
This then brings us to Satan’s final and grandest achievement in The Church—the very "DEPTH of Satan." Something more evil and vile than anything ever conceived of by man or demon! But not to worry—for if you have been chosen to understand these things, then you will,
"Come OUT of her My people…" and "He that overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God, and he shall be My SON" (Rev. 18:4, & 21:7.)
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Hi Loretta,
I have a related question: why do so many women show off cleavage anywhere?
We know that men and women are designed to procreate and that sexual attraction is necessary for God to expand the population. It is natural and we should learn to control our nature and express it appropriately.
How many single guys would take on a family that would absorb all of their hard earned wages IF they were not dazzled by a sexually attractive female? Not many!
Many of the women mentioned are also already married. So who are they desiring to impress with their beauty? Surely they know and have been taught by society that the promise of more flesh is more attractive to the male that pure nudity. Also pure nudity exposes all of our imperfections and uncomely parts, which can be covered and enhanced by the right clothing and cosmetics.
I really have to wonder whether these ladies are trying to attract men or rather perhaps trying to impress other women and make them jealous.
Is there some type of competition at work here, in the church? Is that as much of a problem as the display of flesh.
Lets hear from both sexes.
Curious Bob
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I think the lust of the eyes, the lust of the flesh and the pride of life affect both male and female.
I think Curious Bob said it well :) The women show cleavage to impress both men and women. vanity, vanity....
It's interesting that we are having this conversation. Just a couple of weeks ago a neighbor of mine who is in her late 20's early 30's. My wife told me "She got a boob job". I said "no way, did she really?"
Two weeks had gone by since she had it done, and I saw her out in the front yard watering her plants, on the sidewalk etc. etc. and never noticed. But when my wife told me she had her breasts enlarged.... It's all I could see for a couple of days.
For a couple of days it was.... go outside to walk the dog, see next door neighbor... "BREASTS"... look away, pretend you didn't notice, just wave and smile, wave and smile.... keep walking.... clear.
I think women have breasts enlarged or show cleavage to show off (pride of life). Are there health reason's as to why get breasts enlarged?
I hope this didn't offend anyone. Look what you did Curious Bob! Your going to get me in trouble! ;) *points accusing finger at Bob* Hahahaha
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Hahaha John! So, so true. Thank you God for breasts! For without them, none of us would be here now.
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Actually Bob, I happen to think it doesn't necessarily have to do with sex, it's mainly to attraction attention and men naturally coming running. Now there are different ways to attract attention, through a musical talent, by obtaining a high position in the business world, through fame, etc. But the easiest is for women to dress sexy to get attention from men, but mainly other women, yea other women
Women like other women to envy their appearance, this seems to give them clot in social circles... women like to be doled over by other women. There's is an old saying 'if you have it, flaunt it,' that is what people think and believe there is nothing wrong with that idea, so if you got it use it to your advantage.
Now I do think that women dress provocatively for men to notice them as well and for good reason, as this kind of attention is what women use to get what they want from men. Men fall for this tactic very easily, they seem to love to shower these women with compliments and gifts and damn near anything else they want.
So actually "showing cleavage" is a power play for women, they get higher ranked in social circles by how much attention they get.
Of course this is just my opinion from my observation of the games people play in life :D
mercy, peace and love
Kat
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God knew what He was doing. If He would have created men with breasts they would never leave the house. :D
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God knew what He was doing. If He would have created men with breasts they would never leave the house. :D
Hard to disagree with ;)
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Did you hear about the dyslexic man who walks into a bra?
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I had to take a break between reading these posts as I was falling off my chair with laughter! 8)
Seriously though, I wonder who is the bigger hypocrite, the woman who dresses provocatively all week, then sobers up for church on Sunday or the one who dresses up, or rather dresses down to impress others on Sunday. I used to see it all the time at the catholic mass many years ago, till the church here passed a decree against inappropriate attire during mass with the threat of ex-communion ( refusal to give holy communion) which worked to some extent!
Finally, as Christians, I believe that we have to guard against making sexual purity an end in itself, (which would make us hypocrites) rather than focussing on Christ who enables us to live pure to the glory of God, the Father.
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Nicely said Loretta and me thinks they are both missing the mark as we all do and hahahahaha Craig
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Lord protect me from myself. So many bad jokes wanting to get out. Better you than me Craig.
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Hahaha Craig!
"Finally, as Christians, I believe that we have to guard against making sexual purity an end in itself, (which would make us hypocrites) rather than focussing on Christ who enables us to live pure to the glory of God, the Father." - loretta
So very true. Focusing on the Head... the body will line up and do what the Head tells it to.
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Actually Bob, I happen to think it doesn't necessarily have to do with sex, it's mainly to attraction attention and men naturally coming running. Now there are different ways to attract attention, through a musical talent, by obtaining a high position in the business world, through fame, etc. But the easiest is for women to dress sexy to get attention from men, but mainly other women, yea other women
Women like other women to envy their appearance, this seems to give them clot in social circles... women like to be doled over by other women. There's is an old saying 'if you have it, flaunt it,' that is what people think and believe there is nothing wrong with that idea, so if you got it use it to your advantage.
Now I do think that women dress provocatively for men to notice them as well and for good reason, as this kind of attention is what women use to get what they want from men. Men fall for this tactic very easily, they seem to love to shower these women with compliments and gifts and damn near anything else they want.
So actually "showing cleavage" is a power play for women, they get higher ranked in social circles by how much attention they get.
Of course this is just my opinion from my observation of the games people play in life :D
mercy, peace and love
Kat
Well said Kat, although this section is for " Fun & Banter," this is a serious matter, males or females flaunting their physical attributes, food for the Carnal mind. Of course, these individuals are probably unaware of the serious nature of such a flaunt, but I agree that what Kat states above holds true.
Kind regards, Samson.
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So very true. Focusing on the Head... the body will line up and do what the Head tells it to.
what a perfect expression of the Spirit your statement above is se7en. something i need to remind myself of, especially at this time in my life. thanks for sharing it.
claudia
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Why Do So Many Women Show off Cleavage in Church?
Can't answer that one. I haven't been to an institutional church for so many years now I couldn't tell you how they dress but I wouldn't be surprised either.
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Did not read one post here.....but it has 20 replies and 254 views...so this is obviously the most carnal topic on the board.....and our spiritual minds want answers! :p go figure
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nice catch there patric.
claudia
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Why Do So Many Women Show off Cleavage in Church?
To try and get me to go back to church? Not gonna work. ;P
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Why Do So Many Women Show off Cleavage in Church?
Isn't this the required attire of a "whorehouse" ?!
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Why Do So Many Women Show off Cleavage in Church?
Isn't this the required attire of a "whorehouse" ?!
That's the best answer yet.
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Hi,
Hmmm. So am i missing something here. i think so. When the English came here to New Zealand some 150 odd years ago. our Maori people never wore any covering from the waist up. till the so called church said by thier teaching's false as that they must cover thier bodys to the women that was, why. why should we because some fool says so. what right has the church any way , they did not understand our people yet forced them to comply to .... thier .... teaching .
Our breasts are to feed our young they are not sex objects . oh yes the bit im missing men get on the case & say they are, so cover up. man to day has not got it right & never will .
what was given to us has been used against us for sexual reasons what was natural has been made into other than what was normal. so my ? will be how does one see the nudest camps .
What a pity men can not accept our beauty given to us & not use us to abuse us, for thier own ends, I work with women who have been abused , so i know whats going on, & what its like as well.
...noeleena...
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Yeah......I think if this is the case a certain book from the bible should be removed and other verses - they seem to imply more than just feeding the young. I won't quote them but they are easy enough to find. Perhaps less said the best but I'm a man and can't help what I am but look for the best in people whether they are female or male and keeping love in it's rightful place where it belongs.
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Hi Rhys,
If you refer to the Song of Solomon among others it is thought that this book is addressed to God's people by God to show his intense love toward all His people and to demonstrate how much God cherishes us even as a young man cherishes his virgin bride enough to give his life for her.... Written in terms to which the least experienced, even young couples can relate.
I note that we relate in two seeming different ways in that we are both the bride of Christ and also that we are IN Christ and he is IN us. It has to be that intimate in order to sustain the love.
Once that love is established there is no longer a need for the written law in our lives, because we henceforth live for one another, we are truly ONE flesh.
Of course I have not had the privilege of reading it in the Hebrew, but I think we need to realize that God made us and all of our physical properties, to work as a very strong attraction between men and women. An attraction that in many ways is too strong to easily control and direct in an honorable way. That is why self control is a high achievement e.g. governing our desire, our pride and our speech.
Loving anyone enough to lay down your life for them is not only exciting and demanding, it also is the supreme measure of human physical reward between two lovers.
AND without lovers, where would this old world be? It would be empty.
Love
I love you
Not only for what you are,
But for what I am
When I am with you.
I love you,
Not only for what
You have made of yourself,
But for what
You are making of me.
I love you
For the part of me
That you bring out;
I love you
For putting your hand
Into my heaped-up heart
And passing over
All the foolish, weak things
That you can't help
Dimly seeing there,
And for drawing out
Into the light
All the beautiful belongings
That no one else had looked
Quite far enough to find
I love you because you
Are helping me to make
Of the lumber of my life
Not a tavern
But a temple.
Out of the works
Of my every day
Not a reproach
But a song.
I love you
Because you have done
More than any creed
Could have done
To make me good.
And more than any fate
Could have done
To make me happy.
You have done it
Without a touch,
Without a word,
Without a sign.
You have done it
By being yourself.
Perhaps that is what
Being a friend means,
After all.
by Roy Croft
= = = =
Indiana Bob
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John, how many times have I seen you type "Let the Spirit flow..." (or words to that effect) in cases where the thread goes off the original topic? Several, at least. :D
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Which is a fascinating subject, in or out of church.
;D
Cleavage ....
Something you can look down on and approve of @ the same time
???
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I like Noeleena's reply
I think in a restrictive society where women have to cover up (only showing their eyes) is because menfolk would blame the woman for himself not being able to control his natural manly urges. And in a culture where a man thinks he owns his wife - woman folk are seen as a possession. It is a male dominated society that produces these thoughts of blatant sexuality - either seeing to much or too little of the female form - and then not being able to BEHAVE - ;D - as for the busty womenfolk - take grandmas advice - aren't you cold honey? ... my thoughts ;)
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Not to veer off of the thread any further, BUT
When God created these full tribes of proto-humans he had to instill some form of motivation in order that they would reproduce and spread over the earth.
Most males of that era were and still are motivated by perceived selfish needs.
If it was not for the strong desire and the visual stimulation of the female form, most men would hunt and fish and smoke and drink any alcoholic concoction that they could conjure up.
Making "LOVE" and producing dependents is the furthest thing from their minds until it happens and is then soon forgotten until the next pretty woman passes by.
It is only the continuing desire and "need" for sex that motivates most fellows to accept and even seek a life's companion and several mouths to feed.
Sure, there are exceptions, but we can count them on our two hands.
But then as you may have noticed, God makes the little ones very attractive and desirable to hold and play with and to share a dad's unrealized childhood dreams of adventure and competition with his neighbors. So that once Dad holds the carbon copy of himself he becomes addicted and hooked for life. It also helps that the child worships Dad & Mom as if they were Demi Gods.
If it was not for that inherent nature of the male, the human race would not have grown to the size that it has.
No offense ladies, but not many hairy, bearded guys are chased down and caught like Daisy Mae chased Lil Abner from Dogpatch.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Li'l_Abner
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this is not an easy subject too much carnality in the minds of people. I agree with Kat what she said was correct women are very fierce when it come to taking new territory and the church is the worst place to try and be a true Christian. When you walk in His ways you will be hurt and trample upon by the other women.God help us! Its not just about cleavage but the mind set which is very disturbing to me. Noaleena we don't live in that social make up. the past is gone and we are in the present time. why waste your mind on those wounds of the past they are not yours. Why are the men on this forum so waving with jokes ect about breast? Breast are the nurturing comfort of the world and as a women I would want respect,yes respect concerning the body parts that God has given me. A Godly man would do that control themselves and their carnal minds and ask the Lord to teach them His ways. maybe you will be mad at me but I believe I speak the Truth
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are u saying is it is cool to flaunt it, if you got it ?
in keeping with da subject matter I mean why do they ?
I don't know that women actually do, but the author seems to think so