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=> General Discussions => Topic started by: dre91 on December 30, 2011, 02:36:48 PM

Title: adultery
Post by: dre91 on December 30, 2011, 02:36:48 PM
My wife and I have been separated for over a year now. Our divorce will be final on January 13, 2012. I tried to reconcile with my wife but she still wanted the divorce after I told her I believed in universal salvation. Six months after we separated I met another woman. I know I'm committing adultery because we're co-habitating. Her children live with us too. My conscience is really bothering me as I draw near to my divorce date. I feel as if I've failed God and I feel ashamed. After my divorce is final I have thought about marrying her immediately.
Title: Re: adultery
Post by: mharrell08 on December 30, 2011, 02:50:45 PM
Email reply from Ray (http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,7413.msg58866.html#msg58866):

Dear Max:  There are a hundred good reasons why I don't get involved in counseling people in divorce and remarriage situations and other legal matters.  One ends up in the same situation as Paul called "endless genealogies."  I assume you may be referring to your own marriage with this question?  Okay, so you marry a woman who was not legally divorced based on her husband committing adultery. They just divorced for whatever reasons. Now then, are you legally married to her and is she legally married to you?  Well........has her husband remarried?  Cause if he did, then he IS committing adultery, seeing that your divorce was apparently not legal in God's eyes.  So now that he is married (legal or not) to another and having sex (adultery) with another woman, she could not legally divorce him on grounds of adultery. But you are already divorced, he is now married, and she now married.  Okay, suppose her husband is not remarried and is not committing adultery, then what?  Should she legally divorce you according to the laws of the law, and remarry her old husband if he will have her?  What if he really does WANT HER?  And what if she really decides that she did love him and wants to divorce you now and remarry her old husband?  Can they do that?  (In "God's" eyes?)
     
    What if you die, and your present wife who is not legally divorced because there was no adultery in her first marriage, wants to remarry a third man, and the third man is legally divorced because his wife did commit adultery, can she marry him if her first husband will not take her back, even though he never did commit adultery on her when they were married?  But what if your wife really did commit adultery in her first marriage, but her first husband forgave her and didn't want to divorce her, but she wanted to divorce him, because she felt guilty for betraying him? Can she divorce him if it was her who committed the adultery, and then marry you?  I could go on like this for hours and hours.
     
    It's just more "endless genealogy," and I won't get involved in it. Furthermore, NO ONE will divorce their mate if they love them, no matter WHAT I would say, so this whole conversation is pretty close to pointless.  Furthermore, I don't believe that I have ever had anyone tell me the absolute truth when asking me to "settle" such convoluted marital situations.
     
    Listen:  You cannot UN-ring a bell.  Sometimes it is not possible to go back and straighten out all of the convoluted mistakes we made in life and such things as marriage and remarriage. Repent for what you have done and for what you are and GO ON with you life.  If a husband BEATS his wife, or ABUSES the children, or does NOT PROVIDE food and shelter for his family, or is totally IMMORAL, or DESERTS his wife, or DIES, then the wife is not expected to remained married to such a man if she does not desire, and the same is true she the wife commit these crimes.  Almost all other things are just excuses to have one's cake and eat it too. I hope this has been a little helpful to you.
    God be with you,
    Ray


Obviously your situation isn't exactly like this person who emailed Ray. But the same good counsel remains: You can't undo anything that has been done, so just repent for what you feel you have failed at and move on.

You're already living together and that isn't going to change. A rushed marriage could actually make matters worse. Take your time and do things when you both feel it is the right time.



Hope this helps,

Marques
Title: Re: adultery
Post by: Deborah-Leigh on December 30, 2011, 05:39:28 PM


Fear drives all futile decisions that can end in disaster Dre91. Fear of judgment. Fear of not pleasing God. Fear of doing the wrong thing and earning death. Fear, fear, fear.

I was in a Confessional, telling the Priest that I was living with my now present husband. Not my husband at the time of the Confession! :D The Church (Catholic) refused to marry us, because my husband was divorced. I was told to either leave my husband or leave the Church.

I wish Ray Smith had been listening to my confession rather! LOL ;D

Anyway, what happened was, I left the Church...albeit...joined in a Pentecostal Church...out of the fire into the frying pan! LOL  ;D I figured, I can't sleep with the Church and my husband is warm and very cozy. Shoot me!

My wonderful husband and I were married and the few weeks prior to the wedding, we had a massive fight.

I knelt before God, alone in the bedroom at the bedside and said to God that I wanted to please Him. That I had the baby already, and the divorce, (emotionally speaking...we weren't very happy at that point )and now I wanted God. The emotional terrain of my relationship, to my husband, was in ruins. Funny how God gets you to speak to Him from the heart, when everything is in ruins! :D Not funny, ha ha...but...just how it happens to many.

I felt God ask me what I wanted and I said I loved Abrie, that is my husband today, and that if there was any disapproval of God making us man and wife, then He could take him...meaning that I was okay if God decided to take him...really...I was at the end of my rope and it was for God to decide. I loved Abrie then and that was my reply and I love Abrie today and that has only changed in that it has gotten far deeper with the Blessing of an approving God who caused us to marry.

We had no money and a person from the Church dropped by and said God told him to give us a check. The amount covered exactly the cost of the modest reception.

White rose petals were strewn in the passage up to the Alter where we received the Witness of becoming man and wife. The petals were given to my maid of honor who is a florist. She told me that on collecting her usual purchase of flowers, the owner had approached her and asked her if she would like to take the drums of white rose petals he had. She was elated and said she was to attend my wedding the very next day!

So God showed up in more ways than one, yet the journey of marriage has not been easy or a walk in the park but a deep journey of tested tried and fairy trials and tests to purge purify and make good with God who will not be disappointed in His Work of Love that is LOVE.

Keep loving and living and knowing trusting and depending on Love that is God! You'll do okay! It might not be with rose petals, but He is with you and can show you His gifts of Love in most unique ways that are intimate disclosures of His personal love for you. Ask and you shall recieve. It's His Promise! ask for LOVE and it is as asking for God, who is LOVE>

Arc
Title: Re: adultery
Post by: Deborah-Leigh on December 30, 2011, 06:01:11 PM


 Beautiful Jan...yes, beautiful JAN, dre, Marques and all! God's Light of Beauty conforming to His Image....the eyes of the beholder beholding God's beauty upon His creation so speaking, I and the Father are ONE.... 



Title: Re: adultery
Post by: Heidi on December 30, 2011, 07:40:23 PM
dre91....my dad once said to me,"only God can hit a straight line with a crook-it staff".  Our lives are so intricate and full of dimensions and we all have a story to tell.  My point is this.....we muck things up BUT GOD is able to set things straight.  I agree with what Ray says, "repent".

Love in Christ Jesus
Heidi
Title: Re: adultery
Post by: gmik on December 30, 2011, 11:00:40 PM
Dre91.....none of my business at all, BUT.....please tell me that this new lady DOESN"T mind your new beliefs or better still that she believes it.....

DO NOT marry out of guilt - get out of her bed/house if she doesn't know how you believe

but marrying cuz your sleeping together is NO reason to marry!!!


Again.....none of my beeswax but you did put it out there..... ::)
Title: Re: adultery
Post by: River on December 30, 2011, 11:58:16 PM
I use to think way back that all this sort of stuff was cut and dry. And of course the churches always make it sound like that. But I have searched this matter out to no end and there is no exact way to do it. This is one of those subjects I don't agree on with most the forum members it seems. First off it always gets turned into a physical act it hangs on and second on the authority of pagan customs and government powers. And since when did co-habitaing become adultery? Later I see the term "sleeping together" comes up. Are we that afraid to talk about the reality of sex? Over 6 billion people alive on the planet, you know what that means don't you? This is one of those issues that the churches use to beat down people with. We have no free will right? But yet we say don't do this and don't do that. I understand why we do that but I really do think we get into a muddled religious mindframe with this subject. And with saying this I don't approve of just having sex for whatever reason, but I also think it is totally silly to think it is somehow legit just because someone is "married." I really hope others are able to see the depth of that statement. For me marriage has nothing to do with sex. Doesn't anyone see the deeper meaning of this parable?  :-\

Title: Re: adultery
Post by: John from Kentucky on December 31, 2011, 02:48:11 AM
I use to think way back that all this sort of stuff was cut and dry. And of course the churches always make it sound like that. But I have searched this matter out to no end and there is no exact way to do it. This is one of those subjects I don't agree on with most the forum members it seems. First off it always gets turned into a physical act it hangs on and second on the authority of pagan customs and government powers. And since when did co-habitaing become adultery? Later I see the term "sleeping together" comes up. Are we that afraid to talk about the reality of sex? Over 6 billion people alive on the planet, you know what that means don't you? This is one of those issues that the churches use to beat down people with. We have no free will right? But yet we say don't do this and don't do that. I understand why we do that but I really do think we get into a muddled religious mindframe with this subject. And with saying this I don't approve of just having sex for whatever reason, but I also think it is totally silly to think it is somehow legit just because someone is "married." I really hope others are able to see the depth of that statement. For me marriage has nothing to do with sex. Doesn't anyone see the deeper meaning of this parable?  :-\



Cohabiting becomes adultery when God says so.

"Marriage is honorable among all, and the bed undefiled; but fornicators and adulterers God will judge."  Hebrews 13:4

Sex outside marriage is sin.  It is one thing to show mercy to sinners.  It is another thing to show disrespect to God's laws.  We think too much of ourselves when we do so.

I am an unmarried man.  I want to have sex with women just watching them walk.  But I don't make the rules.  God's rules are so strict that just looking at women with lustful desires is sin.

Also, God made sex.  He is not shy about speaking about it.  An entire book of scriptures, the Song of Songs is about sexual relations between a man and woman, especially when you check the Hebrew references.  That book also has a higher spiritual theme.  It was one of the Festival scrolls read during the Passover and Days of Unleavened Bread.

Ray has an excellent study on marriage and its scriptural definitions.
Title: Re: adultery
Post by: octoberose on December 31, 2011, 04:10:36 AM
Dear dre,
I appreciate many of the answers you've recieved so far but John is right- what are you doing with a woman you're not married to?! If your wife left you, so be it. There is only so much you can do about that ( she actually left you because you believe in universal salvation? ) But what kind of example are you to this other woman, and especially her children? Are you light and salt- are you beyond  reproach? Or are you doing what Romans 6 refers to as " sinning so that grace abounds?". Really, what are you doing?  >:(
Stop it. But do it without being unkind to the woman you're with- you've already taken what is not yours. How would you want to be treated if you were her? What is God telling you?
Title: Re: adultery
Post by: dre91 on December 31, 2011, 12:17:05 PM
Thanks for your replies but the next time I will just keep my business to myself.
Title: Re: adultery
Post by: Gina on December 31, 2011, 02:36:10 PM
Dear Dre,

It's so easy for us to sit here and pass judgment, but I'm learning that except for a few minor changes I could be in your situation.  I have not forgotten you Dre.  I remember when you wrote to the forum about a year and a half ago.  I truly will pray that you find the peace you seek.  I'm so sorry that your wife dumped you because of your beliefs.  I'm so sorry that you feel like you can't bring your troubles to the forum (I would be feeling the same way as you right now--what you did took courage) and I'm sorry that you weren't comforted.  I pray the God of comfort comforts you greatly.

Jesus the Great High Priest

Hebrews 4:14-16

Therefore, since we have a great high priest who has gone through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold firmly to the faith we profess.

For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are—yet was without sin.

Let us then approach the throne of grace with confidence, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help us in our time of need.

Listen:  It's not that we might receive mercy and we might find grace to help us in our time of need, but that we will find it. 

Peace-out  :) ;)
Gina
Title: Re: adultery
Post by: River on December 31, 2011, 11:33:41 PM
I use to think way back that all this sort of stuff was cut and dry. And of course the churches always make it sound like that. But I have searched this matter out to no end and there is no exact way to do it. This is one of those subjects I don't agree on with most the forum members it seems. First off it always gets turned into a physical act it hangs on and second on the authority of pagan customs and government powers. And since when did co-habitaing become adultery? Later I see the term "sleeping together" comes up. Are we that afraid to talk about the reality of sex? Over 6 billion people alive on the planet, you know what that means don't you? This is one of those issues that the churches use to beat down people with. We have no free will right? But yet we say don't do this and don't do that. I understand why we do that but I really do think we get into a muddled religious mindframe with this subject. And with saying this I don't approve of just having sex for whatever reason, but I also think it is totally silly to think it is somehow legit just because someone is "married." I really hope others are able to see the depth of that statement. For me marriage has nothing to do with sex. Doesn't anyone see the deeper meaning of this parable?  :-\



Cohabiting becomes adultery when God says so.

"Marriage is honorable among all, and the bed undefiled; but fornicators and adulterers God will judge."  Hebrews 13:4

Sex outside marriage is sin.  It is one thing to show mercy to sinners.  It is another thing to show disrespect to God's laws.  We think too much of ourselves when we do so.

I am an unmarried man.  I want to have sex with women just watching them walk.  But I don't make the rules.  God's rules are so strict that just looking at women with lustful desires is sin.

Also, God made sex.  He is not shy about speaking about it.  An entire book of scriptures, the Song of Songs is about sexual relations between a man and woman, especially when you check the Hebrew references.  That book also has a higher spiritual theme.  It was one of the Festival scrolls read during the Passover and Days of Unleavened Bread.

Ray has an excellent study on marriage and its scriptural definitions.

You want to show me where it says COHABITING (NOT SEX)  is a sin? Not sure why you wrote all that to me, nothing I haven't heard before or read. But of course how are you to know that. So thanks anyway. You must have clearly misunderstood my post. And of course I show disrespect to God's laws. And of course you like everyone else thinks you have the scriptures all figured out so you get to claim what exactly is God's laws. On this site we challenge the deep embedded hell thinking which many others will fight to the death defending as God's laws as well. You proably think you have this "marriage" subject all figured out. Well I have good reason to doubt it and have scriptural proof as well to show it is not as you like to say it is. But of course we can't do that here and I have no desire to debate it. I just shared my thoughts, that is all. And I assume you did the same. Happy New Year to you!
Title: Re: adultery
Post by: octoberose on January 01, 2012, 02:26:21 AM
Hi River,
I'd  be interested to hear what you have to say. You can go on the facebook page and write what you believe you have uncovered. Nothing is easy for us. Its all easy in Christ (His yoke is easy,His burden light ). Hope to talk again later...
Title: Re: adultery
Post by: Duane on January 01, 2012, 03:07:33 AM
I think this all gets back to "free will" stuff.  God knew that even BEFORE Dre was created that Dre was going to be married and that Dre's wife was going to leave him and that Dre was going to meet another woman and be in the situation that he feels guilty about.  Dre did what human beings do--we sin!  But God knows all about the situation and will make His purpose come out of it.  Like David and Bathsheba--David should have been at war--not home!  Bathsheba could have gotten unexpected company and not bathed at the time David was on his balcony.  David could have got unexpected company and missed the "show".  David could have had sex with "Bathie" and it could have been the wrong "time of the month" to conceive. Any number of things COULD HAVE HAPPENED so the situation COULD HAVE BEEN avoided; but, she did conceive and the baby died.  But, ALL IS OF GOD-and we are responsible for our decisions. HOWEVER,  God's WILL will not be thwarted in Dre's life no matter what Dre does because God all ready knows the "beginning from the end" and we will pay in the Lake of Fire someday.  So Dre, (and WE) will be PURIFIED by FIRE and CLEANSED by BRIMSTONE until his sins "come out in the wash" so to speak--then he (we) will be perfect in God's sight!  (I owe this commentary all to Ray!)   
Title: Re: adultery
Post by: Samson on January 01, 2012, 01:08:41 PM
I use to think way back that all this sort of stuff was cut and dry. And of course the churches always make it sound like that. But I have searched this matter out to no end and there is no exact way to do it. This is one of those subjects I don't agree on with most the forum members it seems. First off it always gets turned into a physical act it hangs on and second on the authority of pagan customs and government powers. And since when did co-habitaing become adultery? Later I see the term "sleeping together" comes up. Are we that afraid to talk about the reality of sex? Over 6 billion people alive on the planet, you know what that means don't you? This is one of those issues that the churches use to beat down people with. We have no free will right? But yet we say don't do this and don't do that. I understand why we do that but I really do think we get into a muddled religious mindframe with this subject. And with saying this I don't approve of just having sex for whatever reason, but I also think it is totally silly to think it is somehow legit just because someone is "married." I really hope others are able to see the depth of that statement. For me marriage has nothing to do with sex. Doesn't anyone see the deeper meaning of this parable?  :-\




Hi River,

Just for information, there is an old thread from January 29, 2007 entitled: Living With A Woman started By Bradigans(He's no longer a Member) that Addresses this Type of Scenario, ie- Cohabiting with someone of the opposite sex without the benefit of a Legalized Marriage. Some of the "Players," involved in this Thread are no longer with us. Ray's Transcript on what constitutes a Marriage(Greek-Gamos, literally meaning "Nuptials") is the result of that Thread, because some Forum Members felt that no one needed a physical piece of paper to substantiate being Married in God's Viewpoint. This Article of Ray's was the one that John From Kentucky had alluded to in His first or second Post of this Thread, you might want to examine this Thread, there were 43 replies before it got locked.

On a side note that might be of interest to you, I joined the Forum in late 2007 into early 2008, approximately one year after that Thread, was already Married to Pam in April 2007, but 8-12 Months prior to Marrying Her, I had a similar mindset about whether or not I needed a Marriage Certificate in order to be considered Married in God's View. Pam and I were getting along so well, so I began to reason that this relationship of Ours is much superior to the ones where I was Legally Married, so " If it ain't broke, don't try to fix it." Upon joining the Forum in late December of 2007 I came upon Ray's article and subsequently finding that Thread from January of 2007(Living With A Woman) and I was unable to disprove Ray's proof showing that We needed to be Legally Married in order for Our Marriage to be acceptable in God's View. Read a few quotes found below in blue from Ray.

TERMS OF MATRIMONY

MARRIAGE:  Gk. gamos - NUPTIALS, marriage, wedding.  The CEREMONY and its proceedings including the ‘marriage feast.’

That’s the definition of marriage right out of the Bible.  Now do you see sex, intercourse, or love in there?  No.  Let’s read it again, nuptials, marriage, wedding - the ceremony.  CEREMONY……I want to show this to you over and over and over again, it will blow you away, it’s the ceremony and it’s proceedings, including the marriage feast or the marriage supper or what we call in the western world ‘the reception.’ 

NUPTIALS:  Noun; ‘A wedding CEREMONY’ (Webster’s Dictionary).  Adjective; ‘related to marriage or the wedding ceremony.’

That’s the first definition by Dr. Strong, it is nuptials.  It has nothing to do with having intercourse, loving each other, or producing children, nothing.  It means a wedding ceremony. 
The reason I decided to do this study, is because this person (email) is so hung up on the fact that ceremony has nothing to do with marriage.  The fact of the matter is, what he thinks is marriage has nothing to do with the definition of marriage, 180 degrees opposite direction. 
You can just go through dictionary after dictionary and Strong’s and you can look up all the words; marry, marrying, marriage, matrimony, look them all up, they all cross reference, they all produce the same truth……the wedding ceremony.

But all civilized cultures have that and it is an ordained institution of God supported in both the Old and New Testaments.  And although ordained of God, marriage is more physical than spiritual, from a scriptural point of view.  Boy I can see the stones coming for saying that, but it’s true.  We’re talking about the definition of the word, what the word actually means.  If marriage was a spiritual institution, instead of a carnal institution.  Why do 50% of those getting married divorce?  What is spiritual about that?  If all the people got married into a spiritual relationship, there would hardly ever be a divorce.  But it’s not.  People go into marriage with a carnal mind, with physical expectations. 
Now most couples who get married do love each other, I’m not saying they don’t, I’m just saying it’s not a spiritual union.  They love each other and they have sex together, but the truth of the matter is neither one is required to define what a marriage is, neither one.  Just because you're married to someone doesn’t mean that you love them, right.  Does anybody agree with that?  It doesn’t mean you love them just because you are married and just because you love somebody doesn’t mean your married to them, am I also right.

How did Adam take Eve to become his wife?  Did they just go to bed and say, ‘this feels good, shall we be a couple, shall we get married?  No, we don’t need to get married, I’ll just take you as my wife and you’ll take me as a husband.  We don’t need to get to married, we’re living together having sex together, we’re husband and wife now.’  Is that how Adam and Eve started their marriage?
I mean this person in the email concedes that they were husband and wife.  Is that how they started?  No!  God has joined them together.  When is a man and a woman joined together?  When they have sex on the honeymoon?  No!  It is part of the ceremony of entering in the marriage.  It is not a part of just being together after you are married . 
“What God has joined…”   There is a point where the joining starts……here they are apart, and now we can put together that God brought the woman to the man, that’s like an espousal.  Then he joined them together.  How did he do that?  Did He push their bodies together?  Come on, let’s not get lewd.  He joined them together as husband and wife in the garden, before they ever came together or had sex or had children. 
God joined them together, that’s what nuptials are.  You take a vow and what happens at the end of the ceremony?  What does the minister usually say?  I now pronounce you husband and wife.  Why?  Because they are now joined together. 
Did they have sex?  No.  What did they do?  They took the vows, they formed a covenant in front of witnesses, in a ceremony called a wedding in a public gathering.  That’s what marriage is.  It’s the joining of a unmarried man and a unmarried woman together in a public setting with witnesses, exchanging vows and making a covenant to be husband and wife with one another as long as you both shall live.  That’s what a wedding is.  That’s what nuptials are.  That’s what ‘marry’ means, that’s what a marriage is, that’s what starts the matrimony of two people.

Marriage would probably been better translated matrimony, that is actually the marriage state, when a couple are married and living together as husband and wife.  That institution there, matrimony.  But notice what He contrasts it with…matrimony is honorable, what is matrimony?  It’s somebody who went through a wedding with exchanging of vows and forming a covenant. 
What if you don‘t do that?  What about people who say, ‘well, I just want to live together and have sex and never get married.’  They never commit and they say, ‘I don‘t want a piece of paper, she knows I love her.’  Yea well you just keep telling yourself that and maybe she doesn’t know that, maybe you’ve halfway convinced her. 
Notice what He contrast it with…… matrimony.  The marriage institution is honorable and the bed undefiled - having sex together as a husband and wife.  The word undefiled, that’s kind of a semi-negative to me, the word is pure.  Why put undefiled?  The word is pure.  The marriage bed between a husband and wife is pure in God’s eyes.  It’s pure to have sex with your wife or your mate, that’s pure. 

But notice what the opposite is, if it’s not marriage,  “…but whoremongers and adulterers God will judge.”  If you are not in matrimony in your wedding bed, what does God consider you?  A whoremonger and a adulterer.  Now do I need to read Rev. 21:8, “All whoremongers will find their place in the Lake of fire.”  Is that not clear enough there?  People don’t put these things together.  If you are not married, but you live together, you are a whoremonger and adulterer. 

Comment: There is no way around the Greek Word "Porneia," it comes from a root word which means " to sell," and although it has a broad meaning that includes all kinds of Immorality like Spousal Abuse and refusing to provide for ones family constituting " An Immoral Man," it's primary meaning consists of ALL sexual contact outside the Marriage Bond(Matrimony); ie- Beastiality, Premarital Sex,  Adultery(Greek-Moikeia), Homosexuality, etc. Scriptures to review are 1Cor. 6:9-11; Matthew. 19:3-9; Matthew. 5:31,32; 1Cor. 6:13("Body not for fornication"); 1Cor. 3:16("Flee from Fornication"); 1Cor. 10:8("Neither let us practice Fornication"); Ephesians. 5:3; Colossians. 3:5; 1Thessalonians. 4:3. Ray mentioned Hebrews. 13:4 regarding Marriage being honorable without defilement and end the end of this verse, it makes a distinction between "Adultery's & Fornicators," A person doesn't necessarily have to be committing Adultery in order to defile the Marriage bed, He & She could be practicing Pre-Marital Sex (Fornication) and be defiling the Marriage Bed and it's not an act of Adultery, but a type of Porneia.

Remember, none of the above is an attack of DRE91 or anyone else for that matter, the Scriptures are clear on this matter and there's no way around them, whether I'm disobeying this instruction or the Guy down the Street  and all of us know that this hasn't anything to do with Our Eventual Salvation. As Gina mentioned, DRE91 brought this situation up in the Past, DRE91 and I discussed His situation privately through phone conversations & Personal Messaging. Futhermore, I don't or wouldn't want the responsiblity or being accountable for telling DRE91 what choice He should make about Marrying whoever, I don't want the results of My suggestion coming back to haunt Me,  ;).

John From Kentucky's point about a Man living with a Woman without leading to Sex is realistic. I can't see how any full functional Heterosexual Male could possibly live with a Heterosexual Woman without resulting in some type of sexual activity. Quote from John from Kentucky below in Red, He gets the color Red,  ;D.

Man to man, do you truly believe a man can live with a woman and not have sex?  Really?   Roll Eyes


I fully agree with John's statement, Also living with a Woman without Marriage might constitute "An Appearance of Evil," towards those Neighbors & the Community. In other words, even if the Male & Female are living together and not having Sex, the feelings & consciences of others would be affected, at least those that know about it.

                     My contribution to this thread, That's all folks, Samson.

 
Title: Re: adultery
Post by: Rene on January 01, 2012, 01:44:32 PM

I fully agree with John's statement, Also living with a Woman without Marriage might constitute "An Appearance of Evil," towards those Neighbors & the Community. In other words, even if the Male & Female are living together and not having Sex, the feelings & consciences of others would be affected, at least those that know about it.

                     My contribution to this thread, That's all folks, Samson.[/color]

[/color][/color]

I like and appreciate your contribution, Samson. :)

René
Title: Re: adultery
Post by: octoberose on January 01, 2012, 09:10:07 PM
I don't want to take the thread where it didn't begin, but I've been deciding weather to comment or leave well enough alone. Let me try this. God will be all in all, God will transform us and redeem our sins. Only God can do this. Now, where does my accountability begin? If I'm not walking in the Way of God, and I purposely do this, I am accountable. As Ray says, God is still responsible for us, but we are accountable. Jesus died a horrible death to redeem me and when I sin, I do not want to be comforted. I want to repent, and turn around and head the other way- straight to Jesus! So, if you hear me on this forum engage in willful, sinful behavior, TELL ME.
 Am I reading into it, or do I keep hearing, "All is of God" as if our sin doesn't really matter- as if to say, "Stain the garment, all you want, it will  come out in the wash". The wash is blood, the sacrifice of the Lamb. It is a terrible price to pay for my stain. And listen, I stain it. I know I do, from fear and thoughts and eating and unbelief. I really do stain it. But I don't want to, and if I have a prayer for this year it is to be transformed by Jesus becoming all and me becoming nothing.
 I have a lost and willful son. I would love it if he even stopped to wonder about his behavior and sought counsel the way Dre did. But he's not there, in that place where it matters and where conscience prickles. It kills me every day, and yes, I see God in the middle of this. But I let the sorrow define me and I've got to work on that too.
Title: Re: adultery
Post by: olasupo jacobs on January 01, 2012, 10:06:21 PM
Mat_12:39  And he answering said to them, `A generation, evil and adulterous, doth seek a sign, and a sign shall not be given to it, except the sign of Jonah the prophet;
Mat_16:4  `A generation evil and adulterous  doth seek a sign, and a sign shall not be given to it, except the sign of Jonah the prophet;' and having left them he went away.

Mar_8:38  for whoever may be ashamed of me, and of my words, in this adulterous and sinful generation, the Son of Man also shall be ashamed of him, when he may come in the glory of his Father, with the holy messengers.'
Mat_5:28  but I--I say to you, that every one who is looking on a woman to desire her, did already commit adultery with her in his heart.
Mat_5:32  but I--I say to you, that whoever may put away his wife, save for the matter of whoredom, doth make her to commit adultery; and whoever may marry her who hath been put away doth commit adultery.

pls don't b offended by this secular saying " an erected manhood has no conscience" is true as regarding cohabiting with d opposite sex. Body chemistry is heighten by proximity, except your are "graced" of the Lord you can't escape sexual temptation .The mere sight of gorgeous, voluptuous or well chiseled body can make one's fantasy to rise. of all sins why is the sexual related ones seems to be easily succumb to?....because its more appealling and promises gratification for the flesh...more so its something that starts from the heart(which is exceedingly weak by design from the creator...according to ray too weak to resist sin)..IMO it is good not to "touch" a woman as Paul Advised talk much less co-habit/live/or become close for many reasons.... the law of sin and death is easier to obey than d law of spirit of life in Christ....really it is God himself who can deliver us from being evil and adulterous which is the norm in this age that we are now. THERE IS A GREATER TENDECY THAT U WILL HAVE SEX WITH THE OPPOSITE SEX IN A CONFINED ENVIRONMENT JUST BECAUSE THE CLOSENESS FAVOURS "LIBIDINOUS" & "TESTOTERONIC" EXCITEMENTS THAT PROMISES A SHORT TERM GRATIFICATION OVER  DOING WHAT IS RIGHT/GOOD IN GOD'S SIGHT.
There is a "heart-o-meter"  called the conscience that judges us instantly whether we are right or wrong in all situations...the stronger believer knows the consequences and ramification of their actions while the baby believer can be excused on account of his ignorance...but not for too long
Title: Re: adultery
Post by: River on January 01, 2012, 10:53:50 PM
 Hey Samson,

    I have read all the material on this subject. But you know I can't really respond. I really wish the focus could be more on the higher spiritual application of marriage according to what I see in the scriptures. Your keeping it on the level of carnal sex, not I.
Title: Re: adultery
Post by: mharrell08 on January 02, 2012, 12:58:23 AM
And with saying this I don't approve of just having sex for whatever reason, but I also think it is totally silly to think it is somehow legit just because someone is "married." I really hope others are able to see the depth of that statement. For me marriage has nothing to do with sex. Doesn't anyone see the deeper meaning of this parable?  :-\


1. Marriage is a commitment, not just a ceremony. The ceremony only symbolizes the commitment between husband & wife. It's not just a piece of paper, but rather a contract to represent the commitment. Ray talks about this extensively in the 'What is Marriage' bible study (http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,5675.0.html).

2. Yes, marriage is a parable of a higher truth. The same way a husband and wife commit to one another, Christ and His Elect commit to one another.

3. Sex within a marriage is also a parable of a higher truth. During sex, a man and a woman are inside each other's bodies. This is similar to Jesus' words, 'Abide in me, and I in you' [John 15:4].

4. So the question remains, what does sex outside of a marriage commitment represent? What does sex represent between 2 people NOT committed to one another?

First, understand this about God:

Ex 34:14  For you shall worship no other god, for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God

Deut 32:21  They have provoked Me to jealousy by what is not God; They have moved Me to anger by their foolish idols...

Excerpt from 'Worship in Spirit & Truth (http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php?topic=5312.0):

Now if you look at the word jealous, there is any number of carnal humanistic definitions for the word jealous, none of which apply to God.  But there is one that applies to God and that is, intolerant of disloyalty or infidelity.  He is totally intolerant to anything that is disloyal or any infidelity.
Jealous means - intolerant of disloyalty or infidelity. 
Loyalty means - steadfast and faithful. 
Infidelity means - lack of loyalty.
Faithful means - worthy of trust, reliable, consistent with TRUTH. 

God is a jealous God in that He doesn’t tolerate anything less than this in disloyalty and infidelity. 

We’ve talked about infidelity in marriage, if you cheat on your mate, that is infidelity.  There is no sexual connotation with God, but with God it has to do with being loyal with what He says you should do or shouldn’t do.

Is this starting to come together yet? God does not tell us to abstain from sex outside of marriage just because. It's not some 'old-fashioned' doctrine of men.

Sharing your body with only your spouse is a sign of loyalty. Not just to your soon-to-be spouse but to the God you serve.

Sharing your body with anyone outside of your spouse is the EXACT OPPOSITE. It is a sign of infidelity, of disloyalty.

So whether you want to talk about a physical marriage, the physical act of sex, etc or rather what they represent at a 'higher spiritual application', the fact remains that sex outside of marriage is an act of infidelity and disloyalty. And the God we serve is a 'jealous' God, One who is intolerant of disloyalty and infidelity.


I read a good comment from Ray in a recent post: 'It's hard to obey Jesus until you begin to see the value in doing so'. And that is at the heart of these marriage/sex/co-habitating questions. Those who see no value in the commitment of marriage, no value in abstaining oneself from sexual activity until marriage, etc. will always look under any nook and cranny for a reason out of it. I know because I look to the same whenever I'm faced with an admonishment to stop doing something that I want to do. We all do, that's what makes us human. But that doesn't make it right.



Marques
Title: Re: adultery
Post by: Deborah-Leigh on January 02, 2012, 03:22:56 AM
...guilty of one, guilty of all....ahem...anyone see the Fashion Police....their tracks are here...they were here! ~  ;D :)

A Priest told me in confession...I was in confession, not the Priest! LOL...well may be not...The Priest said "guilt is the sin"...

I learned something that day! God removes the sin and the guilt and no name calling finger pointing or religious bashing is going to do the trick!~ :D ;D

.....you have got to stop thinking that God is a man, or thinks like a man, or is as weak and stupid as a man.  God DOESN'T WANT PEOPLE TO CLEARLY SEE WHAT HE IS DOING.
    God operates in MYSTERIES.  He teaches in PARABLES.  He prophesies in METAPHORS AND ALLEGORIES.  He writes whole books in SYMBOLS.  God is not trying to save this world now. http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2646.0.html

"...Do not worry about anything..." Phil 4:6 (CLNT)

We don't have to worry about anything because Jesus is the Savior.  You cannot save yourself.  Saving you is Jesus' problem so let Him do His work.

Until He saves you, you will suffer with your problems just like the rest of us.  There is no secret handshake, no special chant, no physical words or rituals to save you.

All of your problems come from God, which He is using to form you.  Only Jesus has the keys to your prisons.  One day, you shall be released, and will dwell in the broad, sunlit uplands of life. A JFK quote  8) http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,13760.msg121183.html#msg121183



Okay, let’s move on.                                                         

So there are four things that happen with sin:

1.   Committed
2.   Remitted
3.   Repented
4.   Removed

That’s the sequence. Repentance is where you accelerate this. All through your life you learn to mature... learn to operate in society... learn to obey the laws of the higher powers and so on... stopping at stop signs... staying under the speed limit etc... You do all these things, which are admirable, we should do them. But there comes a time when you have to just stop doing 'good' things and repent of who and what you are. Then you will start to make real progress.

We sin... God forgives it.
We repent... God removes it.

That’s the way it’s done and it will be done that way with every human being.

All have sinned... God has forgiven all.
All will repent... and all sin will be removed.
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3709.0.html

Title: Re: adultery
Post by: River on January 02, 2012, 04:15:41 AM
mharrell08 wrote "Is this starting to come together yet?"


 Yeah I think it is. I think I can understand why certain posters might no longer be around. They proably wanted to get a divorce from the long robed responders.
Title: Re: adultery
Post by: Heidi on January 02, 2012, 04:25:53 AM
mharrell08 wrote "Is this starting to come together yet?"


 Yeah I think it is. I think I can understand why certain posters might no longer be around. They proably wanted to get a divorce from the long robed responders.

River reading your posts, I can tell that you are a very deep and serious person and God loves you for being you....thank you for speaking your mind......., but do also reflect upon the fact that not everyone all of the time are wrong.  One of the best gifts God has given me was to have a teachable spirit.  There is much wisdom in mharrell08's post.

Heidi
Title: Re: adultery
Post by: Craig on January 02, 2012, 10:40:37 AM
Quote
I think I can understand why certain posters might no longer be around.

Some if not most are not longer here because the idol of their hearts become exposed and they will not/cannot except that they me be wrong.  I am the same way, but someday we will know better.

Marques' post and Ray's responses were full of wisdom, but if the idol of our own hearts are pricked our first inclination is to attack the messenger.  That my friends is the Beast Within.  I have come to recognize that "beast" and it is in me and everyone of us.  Realizing this,  my race in this life is to slowly let go of my own idols, it is a struggle with a lot of pit stops along the way.

I don't believe God sits in heaven with a rule book out and says "if you do this then I will punish you like this"  God's wisdom is revealed in the Bible and in parables and symbols.  He tells us that if we make certain decisions and mistakes then the effect of these choices will always be there for us to deal with.  Cause and effect.  Why did God create us so weak?  Why doesn't God just create us strong so that we only will make the right choices?   Read that again..."Why doesn't God create us strong?".  Friends, He is "creating" us strong, we are in the creation stage, this is part of our creation process.  

God likens Himself to a cleansing fire.  Let's consider that we are a nugget of gold taken from the ground, and let us also assign feelings and emotions to the gold.  O.K?, so there we are in the ground buried safe and sound all is fine according to our knowledge and we are comfortable.  Then one day we feel a vibration around us, we become frightened and curious, the noises and vibrations increase and suddenly we are hoisted from our comfort zone and there is a light shining on us.  We don't like this, we like our comfort better.  We don't recognize that we are dirty we don't know much of anything.  We look over to our right and spot the most beautiful sight, a nugget of Gold that is pure and shines like nothing we have ever seen, we are in awe.  We are setting there and we hear a voice saying that we will be a beautiful work of pure Gold that will shine as much as the One we saw before, our creation has started.  We are excited now,  this will be great.

Suddenly we are being hosed off by water, we don't like this, this is bad to us, it is not natural to have this happen.  We ask why?, why?, why could we not be left alone?  We were comfortable with the dirt we liked it, it was natural to us.  Then we are left alone to dry and we look at ourselves and though we can see some gold and a few shiny spots, we realize we are still dirty.  Suddenly we are hoisted into an intense heat, it is more painful than anything we have ever experienced.  It feels like our insides are being ripped out, we are being reformed.  Things that were a part of us is slowly leaving us, we don't want to give them up but as they go we start to feel cleaner.  The heat of the fire is overwhelming and we cry out for it to stop.  We don't want to give up the impurities in us we fight to keep them, but as we become cleaner we feel better.  We are removed from the heat and suddenly we realize that we have become as pure and shiny as the Gold we saw before and we hear a voice saying that we are finished.  We have been created.  We are pure, we no longer want the impurities and don't even remember why we wanted them in the first place.

That gold is us, we are being created strong and pure like Christ.  The impurities (our idols and sins) will be gone someday.  Your all's impurities and sins may be different from mine and I am learning  not to judge others.  And I don't begrudge you your beliefs or struggles, but I can read God's word and He tells us what is not pure.....

"Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, or thieves, those who are greedy or drunk, who use abusive language, or who rob people will not inherit the kingdom of God"  

That is one verse in Corinthians, there are many verses that tells us where we are not pure, where we are failing.  None are pure and all of us fails.  Again I will not judge or condemn anyone's failings as mine are probably worse, but I will not justify an impurity as being pure.  

And now I've come full circle, an idol of our heart is when we cannot accept or see our failings and then look to justify them and declare them just.  That is wrong and something we all need to guard against.  If anyone is dealing with or struggling with or even comfortable with their impurities, I will not look down on you or condemn you, I will be your friend, I will give a hand to help you. However I will not lend an ear to your justification of sin.  

Craig

Title: Re: adultery
Post by: GaryK on January 02, 2012, 12:03:35 PM
The amazing thing about this thread is I didn’t see a question mark in Dre’s initial post, just statements.


Especially these:




I know I'm committing adultery…..

My conscience is really bothering me…………

I feel……..ashamed.




You already know what's working there Dre, and my guess is that's why you didn't ask a question to begin with.





But the winner is!!!!!!!!............?:




Thanks for your replies but the next time I will just keep my business to myself.




Good advice.   

But, no you probably won't.   Why?...because we share our 'like' struggles on this forum because it's a tough fight and we all need support from those who understand. As for the topic itself there's some really good information here and good analogies, as well.    As for some of the other replies???.......well....... about as valuable as the product of the anatomy part that JFK mentioned.
Title: Re: adultery
Post by: Rene on January 02, 2012, 12:19:23 PM

I think I can understand why certain posters might no longer be around.


This forum has never "missed a beat" because of the "revolving door" of its membership.  I think that speaks volumes for the legitimacy of this forum. 

Personally, I get sad when some members leave, however, we are not here to "compromise" the scriptures in order to keep members.

René
Title: Re: adultery
Post by: Gina on January 02, 2012, 01:29:27 PM
Well, all I know is, if I'm not particularly careful, I will become as one of Job's "comforters."   ;)

I agree with gk, DRE.  Never saw a question from you, only statements and confessions.

Dre is clearly not content with the decisions he has made and things he chose to do.  I see no reason to wallop you.  

The only difference I can see between Dre and some (not all) others of us here, is that he chose to expose himself (and makes not one excuse--"I'm guilty"), where others of us have chosen to keep our personal struggles out of plain view.  That way, we can continue to appear holier than thou.

I am no better than you, Dre--except for a few minor changes...   Bottom line--I'm guilty of all.   I'm going to continue to pray that God has mercy on you and pulls you through.  Because that's what I pray for myself when I know I am guilty of something but I just can't make myself change.  (Edit: Not that we can make ourselves change.  But you know what I mean.)

And with that.... I'm out!  Of this particular discussion.   ;)

Title: Re: adultery
Post by: Deborah-Leigh on January 02, 2012, 02:29:45 PM



Who has been merciful? :)


Is Mercy on trial?  ...nah...didn't think so! :D ;D




Title: Re: adultery
Post by: DougE6 on January 02, 2012, 05:04:20 PM

Craig that was a very apt parable. Marques your last post on this issue was courageous, and correct scripturally and sound, as was Samson and JFKs.  I sometimes wonder why posters leave, but posts like those tell me that people should stick around. True lovers of God are known by growing and becoming more like Him, and God loves righteousness. Yes we all fail to live up to scriptural standards at times, BUT BUT a true heart on path to conversion does not accept this, it strives and desires to be holy and righteous; because it wants to be pure and holy and righteous like our Father.  So it repents forsakes and asks God to help to OVERCOME. I know a brother is a brother when He is crestfallen/broken because he sinned. I doubt someone is truly a brother when he sins and doesn't feel bad about it, or excuses it any way possible.

And I also know life is complicated when it comes to relationships. But God will guide one conscience to do what is right, when one is willing to lay aside our idols. And relationships are for most of us, where the deepest currents flow.  That is where the deepest work is done. Where the rubber hits the road. learning to say no to theft of a candy bar is easy. Learning to say NO to an attractive sex partner whom you feel deeply connected with because of principles/rules given by God? Now we see what you REALLY believe.
Title: Re: adultery
Post by: Ian 155 on January 02, 2012, 05:48:40 PM
Ephes 31 “For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh.” 32 This is a profound mystery—but I am talking about Christ and the church". I notice Abraham was instructed to leave his Ma and Pa and be joined to wifie and learn a new different life style under Gods hand.

since there will be no marriage in heaven, that is according to Jesus, try and stick to better,worse, richer, poorer etc

I myself am heavily convicted as a "provider" at the moment [possibly because im not supposed to be the provider - God is].... so some of the comments hit the mark when addressing a husband as a provider. The Lord says to me "Ill be a husband to you "also "trust me I will meet all your needs" try tell your wife and family that

" hang on wife, this is a test/trial we will come out stronger on the other side" ....
the Word, by the same token calls me an "Infadel" If I cannot provide for my wife and family.

I have limited understanding of real Godly provision [finance] I always thought OK, I have a job thank you, it is a means of provision - well when the mat gets pulled, is it a test or is it fake?Different faith is required for different circumstances, including our petit understanding of being married.


likewise in marriage if divorce is pending and we Know 'I the Lord Hate divorce" did we not pray enough ,did we fail the test,or are our feelings more important than Gods, which one is it ?

When lack is on the horizon love certainly flies out the window...

if I use some of the analagies from the various comments, I must have done something insanely wrong and God is now punishing my whole family by not allowing or enabling business to come my way, perhaps I'm paying for the sin of my forfathers as , i am not black enough in a country that has charged me with a Holocaust type sentence because of the filthy apartheid system, even though I was born British.

The afrikaans language has an apt expression "Dood Het 'n oorsaak" direct "death has a reason".


Could we be making a gigantic mistake,the true marriage feast is not yet here, lets keep our lamps full ...and meantime follow the comand of love...druggie,divorcee,thrice married ee... 
 
John 8:4-11 "Teacher," they said to Jesus, "this woman was caught in the act of adultery. The Law of Moses says to stone her. What do you say?" They kept demanding an answer, so he stood up and said, "All right, but let the one who has never sinned throw the first stone!" Then Jesus said to the woman, "Where are your accusers? Didn't even one of them condemn you?" "No Lord," she said. And Jesus said, "Neither do I. Go and sin no more."

or did he mean, get redivorced from all your other husbands and go back to the 1st one and I will cause her heart to soften too you,or did he mean I am the true husband come to your sences and stop your nonsence

There is no solid answer is there ? In every situation, believe what you pray is heard by God and he has the right answer and it is on its way,[including a stormy marriage]I do not believe God makes mistakes we have good opportunity to get stronger as we over come these trials of this life.
If Jesus can calm a storm at sea he surley can calm a storm at marriage - point is do you want the marriage [when you have done all to stand - do you remain standing]
Title: Re: adultery
Post by: adiamondintheson on January 02, 2012, 06:43:01 PM
In reply to post #16 dated Jan.1st 2012 and written in part by Samson... he quoted an article of Jan. 2007 written by Ray entitled “Living with a Woman”.

Before I go on, I am not trying to discredit any of the other posts, I just am looking for a clarification.

Again, in Rays article, he stated that Nuptuals are a wedding ceremony which includes a wedding feast or a reception where vows are exchanged in a public ceremony with witnesses, etc.  and that living with a man or a woman (which ever the case may be) definitely requires a piece of paper or a marriage certificate, (if I understood it correctly).

My question is this.... in  Genesis 24:63-67 Isaac met Rebekah (assuming) a short distance from his mothers tent, and as the verses indicate, the 2 of them went in to his mothers tent where Isaac 'took'
 Rebekah, and she became his wife.

Genesis 24:63-67 And Isaac went out to meditate in the field at the eventide: and he lifted up his eyes, and saw, and, behold, the camels were coming. And Rebekah lifted up her eyes, and when she saw Isaac, she lighted off the camel. For she had said unto the servant, What man is this that walketh in the field to meet us? And the servant had said, It is my master: therefore she took a vail, and covered herself. And the servant told Isaac all things that he had done. And Isaac brought her into his mother Sarah's tent, and took Rebekah, and she became his wife; and he loved her: and Isaac was comforted after his mother's death

Now that does leave room for a lot of conjecture in that one could assume that it was Rebekah and Isaac only inside the tent;  there were no witnesses or other physical proof of their marriage.

Again, I do agree, that 2 people should exchange vows with each other and before God, but from there, if they were sincere with their vows, are they married??  or Not?  Please, do reply as I am happily married, and we had witnesses, etc.  but this has been a question in my mind for some time and I guess this is as good a time as any to discuss it with others. 

Den
Title: Re: adultery
Post by: mharrell08 on January 02, 2012, 07:22:15 PM
Genesis 24:63-67 And Isaac went out to meditate in the field at the eventide: and he lifted up his eyes, and saw, and, behold, the camels were coming. And Rebekah lifted up her eyes, and when she saw Isaac, she lighted off the camel. For she had said unto the servant, What man is this that walketh in the field to meet us? And the servant had said, It is my master: therefore she took a vail, and covered herself. And the servant told Isaac all things that he had done. And Isaac brought her into his mother Sarah's tent, and took Rebekah, and she became his wife; and he loved her: and Isaac was comforted after his mother's death

Now that does leave room for a lot of conjecture in that one could assume that it was Rebekah and Isaac only inside the tent;  there were no witnesses or other physical proof of their marriage.


Gen 24:50-51   Then Laban and Bethuel answered and said, “The thing comes from the LORD; we cannot speak to you either bad or good. Here is Rebekah before you; take her and go, and let her be your master’s son’s wife, as the LORD has spoken.”

Rebekah's family was a witness...they gave their daughter away as a father does during a wedding ceremony.

Also the phrase 'he took her as his wife and loved her' did not happen right then and there inside the tent. No one falls truly in love in an instant. This was a general statement that took place over a period of time.



Hope this helps,

Marques
Title: Re: adultery
Post by: ez2u on January 02, 2012, 08:35:18 PM
We all getting into these sinful situations   its so very humbling  its good to see you are looking at it as though you did sin   prayer and going slower helps  keeping the sword in the sheave  helps a great deal   to think and hear clearer.
Title: Re: adultery
Post by: Duane on January 02, 2012, 10:00:27 PM
I found these posts extremely well thought out and helpful on many levels.  I especially enjoyed Craig's analogy of the gold being dug up and refined against it's will and natural habitat.  I truly hope Dre Learns and not Leaves.  We "all have sinned and come short of the glory of God"! 
What better place to be guided, corrected and helped than this FORUM!  How would you like to be dragged before the deacon's committee and then the "church body" to have your "laundry" and subsequent "dis-fellowshipping" done before the whole church assembly??  I have seen it done and it is not pretty!  (I have never heard where publicly dissecting a person for sinning has resulted in repentance yet!)
We, B-T'ers are the "body" and this is a beautiful, self-esteem retaining way of helping/guiding each other in love--which I might add, is VERY evident in people's answers.

Duane, being Duane, has to end on a lighter note:  My father was commenting to me how many people, both Christian and non-Christian were getting divorced or separated with impunity--and then  living with others without being married!  Having the same sense of humor as a teen, I replied "yeah, Dad--It seems that now days parents raise their off-spring 'from childhood right up through adultery' "! 
(he tried not to laugh!)
Title: Re: adultery
Post by: River on January 03, 2012, 06:57:37 AM
Quote
I think I can understand why certain posters might no longer be around.

Some if not most are not longer here because the idol of their hearts become exposed and they will not/cannot except that they me be wrong.  I am the same way, but someday we will know better.

Marques' post and Ray's responses were full of wisdom, but if the idol of our own hearts are pricked our first inclination is to attack the messenger.  That my friends is the Beast Within.  I have come to recognize that "beast" and it is in me and everyone of us.  Realizing this,  my race in this life is to slowly let go of my own idols, it is a struggle with a lot of pit stops along the way.

I don't believe God sits in heaven with a rule book out and says "if you do this then I will punish you like this"  God's wisdom is revealed in the Bible and in parables and symbols.  He tells us that if we make certain decisions and mistakes then the effect of these choices will always be there for us to deal with.  Cause and effect.  Why did God create us so weak?  Why doesn't God just create us strong so that we only will make the right choices?   Read that again..."Why doesn't God create us strong?".  Friends, He is "creating" us strong, we are in the creation stage, this is part of our creation process.  

God likens Himself to a cleansing fire.  Let's consider that we are a nugget of gold taken from the ground, and let us also assign feelings and emotions to the gold.  O.K?, so there we are in the ground buried safe and sound all is fine according to our knowledge and we are comfortable.  Then one day we feel a vibration around us, we become frightened and curious, the noises and vibrations increase and suddenly we are hoisted from our comfort zone and there is a light shining on us.  We don't like this, we like our comfort better.  We don't recognize that we are dirty we don't know much of anything.  We look over to our right and spot the most beautiful sight, a nugget of Gold that is pure and shines like nothing we have ever seen, we are in awe.  We are setting there and we hear a voice saying that we will be a beautiful work of pure Gold that will shine as much as the One we saw before, our creation has started.  We are excited now,  this will be great.

Suddenly we are being hosed off by water, we don't like this, this is bad to us, it is not natural to have this happen.  We ask why?, why?, why could we not be left alone?  We were comfortable with the dirt we liked it, it was natural to us.  Then we are left alone to dry and we look at ourselves and though we can see some gold and a few shiny spots, we realize we are still dirty.  Suddenly we are hoisted into an intense heat, it is more painful than anything we have ever experienced.  It feels like our insides are being ripped out, we are being reformed.  Things that were a part of us is slowly leaving us, we don't want to give them up but as they go we start to feel cleaner.  The heat of the fire is overwhelming and we cry out for it to stop.  We don't want to give up the impurities in us we fight to keep them, but as we become cleaner we feel better.  We are removed from the heat and suddenly we realize that we have become as pure and shiny as the Gold we saw before and we hear a voice saying that we are finished.  We have been created.  We are pure, we no longer want the impurities and don't even remember why we wanted them in the first place.

That gold is us, we are being created strong and pure like Christ.  The impurities (our idols and sins) will be gone someday.  Your all's impurities and sins may be different from mine and I am learning  not to judge others.  And I don't begrudge you your beliefs or struggles, but I can read God's word and He tells us what is not pure.....

"Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, or thieves, those who are greedy or drunk, who use abusive language, or who rob people will not inherit the kingdom of God"  

That is one verse in Corinthians, there are many verses that tells us where we are not pure, where we are failing.  None are pure and all of us fails.  Again I will not judge or condemn anyone's failings as mine are probably worse, but I will not justify an impurity as being pure.  

And now I've come full circle, an idol of our heart is when we cannot accept or see our failings and then look to justify them and declare them just.  That is wrong and something we all need to guard against.  If anyone is dealing with or struggling with or even comfortable with their impurities, I will not look down on you or condemn you, I will be your friend, I will give a hand to help you. However I will not lend an ear to your justification of sin. Craig



 This is the thing Craig. I am not telling you or anyone else to sin. Your doing a good job of it on your own. I am not feeling pricked in my heart either. Nor am I under any illusion that I am holy or don't struggle with the beast. I shared some thoughts and you and others feel the need to keep lecturing on and on. If you feel comfortable and your conscience is clean, then so be it. If you think I attacked the messanger then what do you think your response and others was to me? But of course you believe your in the right! So it's ok for you to correct me right. But have you not taken note to my repeated comments that I'm not justifying sex or the matter I am speaking of is different than the carnal act. How many posts do I need to get the point across? I'm not intimidated and don't feel the need to run away. Nor do I think people leave just only because they feel pricked in the heart, people can leave because self righteous people can stink worse than pigs. Speaking of I need a bath.  ;D

Title: Re: adultery
Post by: Craig on January 03, 2012, 09:20:04 AM
Where do you come off seeing anyone is being self rightous??  I don't think it was in my post or Marques' or others that I paid attention to.  We know we are all sinners, and I don't care what your sin is or anyone elses, but it appeared to me that you don't feel the topic in question was a sin.  And that, and the snide remark of why people leave prompted my post.  If I misunderstood you then please accept my apology.  If not then I hope you understand the point I tried to make. 

Craig
Title: Re: adultery
Post by: Samson on January 03, 2012, 11:59:17 AM
Hey Samson,

    I have read all the material on this subject. But you know I can't really respond. I really wish the focus could be more on the higher spiritual application of marriage according to what I see in the scriptures. Your keeping it on the level of carnal sex, not I.


Hello River,

I hope you were not thinking that I was coming off as "Self Righteous," because My long term record in Marriage stinks, not counting My current Marriage to Pam, the jury isn't finished with this relationship, but so far, so good, maybe God is giving me a break, perhaps He knew I couldn't endure another disappointment in this area, it might kill Me, apparently, He wants Me to still live for awhile. I've suffered the repercussions of Bad Marriages to the point of wishing and praying for Death as a release.

Anyway, You were asking about a Spiritual Marriage, were you referring to the following Scriptures about the way all of Us hope it would or could be. Read Below !

1Pe 3:1  Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands; that, if any obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives; 1Pe 3:5  For after this manner in the old time the holy women also, who trusted in God, adorned themselves, being in subjection unto their own husbands:
1Pe 3:6  Even as Sara obeyed Abraham, calling him lord: whose daughters ye are, as long as ye do well, and are not afraid with any amazement.
1Pe 3:7  Likewise, ye husbands, dwell with them according to knowledge, giving honour unto the wife, as unto the weaker vessel, and as being heirs together of the grace of life; that your prayers be not hindered. Eph 5:22  Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.
Eph 5:23  For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
Eph 5:24  Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.
Eph 5:25  Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
Col 3:18  Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as it is fit in the Lord.
Col 3:19  Husbands, love your wives, and be not bitter against them.
Pro 5:18  Let thy fountain be blessed: and rejoice with the wife of thy youth.
Pro 5:19  Let her be as the loving hind and pleasant roe; let her breasts satisfy thee at all times; and be thou ravished always with her love.

River, Are you referring to a Spiritual Marriage in regards to the above Scriptures, there are probably more. I, for one have always hoped for such, yet I had a Marriage in the past where Our Scriptural Beliefs and the consideration of the above Scriptures and the desire to follow them were not enough for it to work. Why, because of Our circumstances and mainly that We were unevenly yoked in regards to Our personalities, in other words, Our personalities didn't jive, both parties wanted to play Quarterback and there's only one Football. So, what lesson did I learn from all these former Marital experiences: " Personality compatibility is Numero Uno in selecting a Mate. Sex, Religious Beliefs, Looks, Interests, etc are secondary. That's My advice from much experience. If you don't get along with your Husband or Wife, what difference does it make if there's agreement on spiritual belief, Of course, no Man or Woman gets along perfectly, they speak different languages, but if you live in a War Zone because personalities constantly and consistently clash on a regular daily basis, You won't care about as much about these other factors.

Just My experience & hope that God has decided that I've learned enough in this area, Samson,  ;D.

Title: Re: adultery
Post by: adiamondintheson on January 03, 2012, 03:11:17 PM
Marques

I do not mean or want to belabor the point, but I still am in a quandary as to what actually constitutes a marriage between a man and a woman. 

In your answer to my first post regarding Isaac and Rebekah, at the time Isaac took Rebekah to his mothers tent, the scripture does not go into detail but one can assume there were no other people in the tent and there was no additional scripture stating anything regarding a reception or any other type of marriage certificates.  Only, that Isaac continued to love Rebekah.   You also said this happened over a period of time and I would assume that to be an assumption on your part, unless there is scripture that states the same. 

My real issue is, whether a couple gets married in 6 months or 6 years after meeting each other, according to the scripture, Isaac and Rebekah were married without any witnesses, a reception, or marriage papers of any type, as we know it today.  Therefore I will return to my basic question as stated in my first post... if a man and a woman love each other, and, assuming they are following Gods will, does there need be anything other than vows exchanged between the two of them and God as their witness? 

One last thought in closing, Rebekah's parents gave her away (so to speak) when she left their home to go to marry Isaac.  However, in modern day services, the (quote on quote) witnesses are those that stand up with the bride and groom, and more specifically, the best man and the brides maid who sign the marriage certificate as witnesses.  I apologize, I had 2 last thoughts.  If most churches are corrupt, where would a couple go and who would be the one to read the vows they repeat during the marriage ceremony? 

Again, please understand, I am not trying to be contentious, but really am perplexed by some of these scriptural statements and am just looking for clarification, if possible.

Sincerely
Den
Title: Re: adultery
Post by: mharrell08 on January 03, 2012, 03:50:49 PM
Marques

I do not mean or want to belabor the point, but I still am in a quandary as to what actually constitutes a marriage between a man and a woman. 

In your answer to my first post regarding Isaac and Rebekah, at the time Isaac took Rebekah to his mothers tent, the scripture does not go into detail but one can assume there were no other people in the tent and there was no additional scripture stating anything regarding a reception or any other type of marriage certificates.  Only, that Isaac continued to love Rebekah.   You also said this happened over a period of time and I would assume that to be an assumption on your part, unless there is scripture that states the same.

My real issue is, whether a couple gets married in 6 months or 6 years after meeting each other, according to the scripture, Isaac and Rebekah were married without any witnesses, a reception, or marriage papers of any type, as we know it today.  Therefore I will return to my basic question as stated in my first post... if a man and a woman love each other, and, assuming they are following Gods will, does there need be anything other than vows exchanged between the two of them and God as their witness?


Rebekah's family was a witness, as was Abraham's servant who went to find Isaac's wife. We have no record if they did or did not have any type of reception. One could assume either way.

As far as a marriage paper: the scriptures document the marriage between Adam & Eve, there is no other marriage paper spoken of but we don't assume they are not married. Why would we not do the same regarding Isaac & Rebekah? The scriptures stated Isaac took Rebekah as his wife, so why assume it is not true but Adam & Eve is?

Remember Paul's words: 'Render therefore to all their due: taxes to whom taxes are due, customs to whom customs, fear to whom fear, honor to whom honor' [Rom 13:7].

There is a custom regarding marriage that we have now in most of the world: marriage ceremony, vows, witnesses, license, etc.


One last thought in closing, Rebekah's parents gave her away (so to speak) when she left their home to go to marry Isaac.  However, in modern day services, the (quote on quote) witnesses are those that stand up with the bride and groom, and more specifically, the best man and the brides maid who sign the marriage certificate as witnesses.  I apologize, I had 2 last thoughts.  If most churches are corrupt, where would a couple go and who would be the one to read the vows they repeat during the marriage ceremony? 

Again, please understand, I am not trying to be contentious, but really am perplexed by some of these scriptural statements and am just looking for clarification, if possible.

Sincerely
Den

In many countries, a judge at a courthouse or other government facility can marry a husband & wife. The couple can also have their own vows and/or the judge can provide.

If a couple is legally married, there are many rights and provisions that the law gives them...some are even biblical. But if a couple are not legally married, they will not have these rights.

For example, if a man divorces a woman, she is entitled certain provisions (alimony) from the ex-husband. This was done even with ancient Israel when they left Egypt. In our times now, without legal standing, the woman would not be entitled anything from the ex-husband. This is just one example of the difference between being legally married and declaring vows with no legal standing.


Marques
Title: Re: adultery
Post by: River on January 03, 2012, 11:27:27 PM
Hey Samson,

 You wrote "River, Are you referring to a Spiritual Marriage in regards to the above Scriptures, there are probably more. I, for one have always hoped for such, yet I had a Marriage in the past where Our Scriptural Beliefs and the consideration of the above Scriptures and the desire to follow them were not enough for it to work. Why, because of Our circumstances and mainly that We were unevenly yoked in regards to Our personalities, in other words, Our personalities didn't jive, both parties wanted to play Quarterback and there's only one Football."

 Yeah I am not talking about a marriage of this sort. Knowing the kingdom of God is not meat and drink and His words are Spirit I'm not concerned with physical rituals. The idea I am speaking of is shown in Ray's response to a question.

http://bible-truths.com/email16.htm#physical

I like this line a lot ""We know longer know Jesus after the FLESH." Jesus HIMSELF said: "The flesh profits NOTHING." "The words that I speak unto you, they are SPIRIT and they are LIFE."

This is the marriage I am speaking of. This is the higher application, it operates without a pagan pastor, a judge of carnal matters or customs of false religions which flow in our society.

Revelations 17 says it well " With her the kings of the earth committed adultery, and the inhabitants of the earth were intoxicated with the wine of her adulteries.”

This is the adultery, the fornication, this is the whoredom and the breaking of the marriage vows. It's a parable and to me about our marriage to Babylon. We are in bed with her, we have given ourselves to another, we have fornicated with her and commit adultery by living these things.

 As Ray says in quotes below from the same response letter..

"Because there is absolutely nothing physical that can make one spiritual.

Paul baptized at one time in his ministry and then he quit. Why? Because he put away childish things and went on to spiritual maturity.

Paul used to circumcise in his early ministry and then he quit. Why? Because he put away childish things and went on to spiritual maturity.

All physical rituals are CARNAL ordinances, and we are no longer under carnal ordinances."

Title: Re: adultery
Post by: mharrell08 on January 04, 2012, 12:02:39 AM
Yeah I am not talking about a marriage of this sort. Knowing the kingdom of God is not meat and drink and His words are Spirit I'm not concerned with physical rituals. The idea I am speaking of is shown in Ray's response to a question.

http://bible-truths.com/email16.htm#physical

I like this line a lot ""We know longer know Jesus after the FLESH." Jesus HIMSELF said: "The flesh profits NOTHING." "The words that I speak unto you, they are SPIRIT and they are LIFE."

This is the marriage I am speaking of. This is the higher application, it operates without a pagan pastor, a judge of carnal matters or customs of false religions which flow in our society.

Revelations 17 says it well " With her the kings of the earth committed adultery, and the inhabitants of the earth were intoxicated with the wine of her adulteries.”

This is the adultery, the fornication, this is the whoredom and the breaking of the marriage vows. It's a parable and to me about our marriage to Babylon. We are in bed with her, we have given ourselves to another, we have fornicated with her and commit adultery by living these things.

 As Ray says in quotes below from the same response letter..

"Because there is absolutely nothing physical that can make one spiritual.

Paul baptized at one time in his ministry and then he quit. Why? Because he put away childish things and went on to spiritual maturity.

Paul used to circumcise in his early ministry and then he quit. Why? Because he put away childish things and went on to spiritual maturity.

All physical rituals are CARNAL ordinances, and we are no longer under carnal ordinances."


River, how is marriage a carnal ordinance? Where has Ray taught that a marriage ceremony is a carnal ordinance?

The person who emailed Ray asked about church rituals, the Lord's Supper to be exact. Ray then said 'I have absolutely nothing against anyone who wishes to keep the Lord's supper. I have nothing against anyone who wishes to be circumcised or be baptized. I have nothing against anyone who wishes to sacrifice animals or offer sin offerings, burnt offerings, peace offerings and the like.' The like is other church rituals, not any and every physical activity. A marriage ceremony has nothing to do with a church. I know this for a fact because I'm married and the church played no part.

You mentioned a judge of carnal matters and customs of false religions. These judges are placed in their position by God ['Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God' - Rom 13:1]. Paul admonishments regarding giving due to one's customs were posted above.

Also another point: We were never 'married' to Babylon in either a physical or spiritual sense. You don't commit adultery with someone you are married to. Throughout the scriptures, God has referred to us as His Beloved who played the harlot...but He was our Husband and would bring us to repentance. Yes, this is a parable with greater importance, but that does not mean the physical is worthless.

A physical ritual/ceremony is worthless when it holds no value past the ritual itself. That's when you know it's carnal, because it's worthless in the end. A marriage ceremony, though physical, has spiritual meaning. 'Two becoming one flesh' are words of spirit and speak of a spiritual condition which comes about from the actual marriage commitment.


Marques
Title: Re: adultery
Post by: Joel on January 04, 2012, 12:03:31 AM
Is it really a marriage if God is not the head of the two that shall be one flesh?

Matthew 19:8
He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so.

Jeremiah 6:16
Thus saith the Lord, Stand ye in the ways , and see, and ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls, But they said, We will not walk therein.


Joel
Title: Re: adultery
Post by: John from Kentucky on January 04, 2012, 12:16:42 AM
Meanwhile, back on planet earth, we are still physical human.  As such, we are subject to God's laws as they apply to us.

If you have the Spirit of Jesus, if you recognize Jesus as Lord, then you will do as the Lord says.

We just cannot kill, or serve in the police or military where you may have to kill, or have weapons that you rely on to kill others.  We cannot even have hate in our hearts for others, which is the spirit of murder.

Not only can we not have sex outside a marriage covenant, we cannot even have sexual lusts in our hearts.

We cannot swear or take oaths, but simply speak the truth.

And on and on it goes.  Jesus' ways affect how we live every moment of our physical lives.

Jesus says why call Him Lord if you don't obey Him.  It's a very good question that we all have to answer in our hearts.
Title: Re: adultery
Post by: River on January 04, 2012, 02:23:17 AM
Yeah I am not talking about a marriage of this sort. Knowing the kingdom of God is not meat and drink and His words are Spirit I'm not concerned with physical rituals. The idea I am speaking of is shown in Ray's response to a question.

http://bible-truths.com/email16.htm#physical

I like this line a lot ""We know longer know Jesus after the FLESH." Jesus HIMSELF said: "The flesh profits NOTHING." "The words that I speak unto you, they are SPIRIT and they are LIFE."

This is the marriage I am speaking of. This is the higher application, it operates without a pagan pastor, a judge of carnal matters or customs of false religions which flow in our society.

Revelations 17 says it well " With her the kings of the earth committed adultery, and the inhabitants of the earth were intoxicated with the wine of her adulteries.”

This is the adultery, the fornication, this is the whoredom and the breaking of the marriage vows. It's a parable and to me about our marriage to Babylon. We are in bed with her, we have given ourselves to another, we have fornicated with her and commit adultery by living these things.

 As Ray says in quotes below from the same response letter..

"Because there is absolutely nothing physical that can make one spiritual.

Paul baptized at one time in his ministry and then he quit. Why? Because he put away childish things and went on to spiritual maturity.

Paul used to circumcise in his early ministry and then he quit. Why? Because he put away childish things and went on to spiritual maturity.

All physical rituals are CARNAL ordinances, and we are no longer under carnal ordinances."


River, how is marriage a carnal ordinance? Where has Ray taught that a marriage ceremony is a carnal ordinance?

The person who emailed Ray asked about church rituals, the Lord's Supper to be exact. Ray then said 'I have absolutely nothing against anyone who wishes to keep the Lord's supper. I have nothing against anyone who wishes to be circumcised or be baptized. I have nothing against anyone who wishes to sacrifice animals or offer sin offerings, burnt offerings, peace offerings and the like.' The like is other church rituals, not any and every physical activity. A marriage ceremony has nothing to do with a church. I know this for a fact because I'm married and the church played no part.

You mentioned a judge of carnal matters and customs of false religions. These judges are placed in their position by God ['Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God' - Rom 13:1]. Paul admonishments regarding giving due to one's customs were posted above.

Also another point: We were never 'married' to Babylon in either a physical or spiritual sense. You don't commit adultery with someone you are married to. Throughout the scriptures, God has referred to us as His Beloved who played the harlot...but He was our Husband and would bring us to repentance. Yes, this is a parable with greater importance, but that does not mean the physical is worthless.

A physical ritual/ceremony is worthless when it holds no value past the ritual itself. That's when you know it's carnal, because it's worthless in the end. A marriage ceremony, though physical, has spiritual meaning. 'Two becoming one flesh' are words of spirit and speak of a spiritual condition which comes about from the actual marriage commitment.


Marques

Hey Marques,

   I'm not trying to speak for Ray. I understand what he said. But yes to me it is just another ritual. And we have all sorts of commands to do all sorts of things but just as Ray says he doesn't do certain ones or no longer does them. It's the same with me. I was hoping you could see the connect. But yes I am not trying to speak for Ray.  Because yes he believes as you state. But I have seen many people pick and choose and the reason they do is because they do or don't believe it. I happen to not believe it, that is, at least how you try to explain it. A lot is missing. The way I explained Revelation 17 makes scriptural sense to me and yes you can play with the words but the same thing happens with the scriptures. We call Christ a lamb, a rock etc. and you could come back at me and say Christ is not a rock! But we know these words convey meanings just as the Revelation 17 scripture. Are we to believe everytime the word intoxicated comes up it has to do with getting smashed from whiskey? I have a hard time thinking you don't understand what I am saying. Like I said way back this always turns into a religious muddle mess. For you, you omitted a church having no part in your ceremony. And yet you claim your married. So it's ok for you to do it like you see it but not for me? And I am sorry I see no value in a ceremony. It all sounds like the same stuff like "you must go to church" "you must be baptized in water" etc. But when people find out that they are the church and that water baptism is a parable they move on. To me it's bondage to religion. Two becoming one flesh is spiritual because you don't see a couple actually become one human being. :P These things are like the shadows in the Old Testament to me. We can see it played out over and over. The temple is a great example. And of course we later find out that we are the Temple. To me it's a wonderful way to express a higher meaning.
I don't want anyone to get the wrong idea that is reading this. I am not saying to listen to me, I could be wrong. I also do not suggest you have sex or lust. I am not promoting free sex or do what you want behavior. If it sounds like that then you misunderstand me. Thanks to everyone for being tolerant of me. And I apologize if I came across snide.
Title: Re: adultery
Post by: DougE6 on January 04, 2012, 02:51:57 AM
Quote
Insert Quote
Meanwhile, back on planet earth, we are still physical human.  As such, we are subject to God's laws as they apply to us.

If you have the Spirit of Jesus, if you recognize Jesus as Lord, then you will do as the Lord says.

We just cannot kill, or serve in the police or military where you may have to kill, or have weapons that you rely on to kill others.  We cannot even have hate in our hearts for others, which is the spirit of murder.

Not only can we not have sex outside a marriage covenant, we cannot even have sexual lusts in our hearts.

We cannot swear or take oaths, but simply speak the truth.

And on and on it goes.  Jesus' ways affect how we live every moment of our physical lives.

Jesus says why call Him Lord if you don't obey Him.  It's a very good question that we all have to answer in our hearts.

Great post. Sums up the gospel. thanks JFK
Title: Re: adultery
Post by: Foxx on January 06, 2012, 11:55:47 AM
The amazing thing about this thread is I didn’t see a question mark in Dre’s initial post, just statements.


Especially these:




I know I'm committing adultery…..

My conscience is really bothering me…………

I feel……..ashamed.




Yes, I noticed that too I suppose most people felt that the nature of his post implied he was a asking for the opinions of the rest of the forum. Since that is indeed what a forum is for in part. You are correct in pointing out that he was making statements about how he feels not asking questions.

At any rate, Craig, I really enjoyed your post! That was such a great analogy! Extremely well put!

Dre, I don't know what it is like to experience such a situation but I know what its like to be ashamed for something but if God wills he will give you the answer and take away the guilt from you. He knows the pain you are going through and your desire to honor him. That seems relatively apparent from your post. I hope you find the peace you need for this situation.

God Bless,
Matt
Title: Re: adultery
Post by: Gina on January 06, 2012, 01:04:12 PM
The amazing thing about this thread is I didn’t see a question mark in Dre’s initial post, just statements.


Especially these:




I know I'm committing adultery…..

My conscience is really bothering me…………

I feel……..ashamed.




Yes, I noticed that too I suppose most people felt that the nature of his post implied he was a asking for the opinions of the rest of the forum. Since that is indeed what a forum is for in part. You are correct in pointing out that he was making statements about how he feels not asking questions.

At any rate, Craig, I really enjoyed your post! That was such a great analogy! Extremely well put!

Dre, I don't know what it is like to experience such a situation but I know what its like to be ashamed for something but if God wills he will give you the answer and take away the guilt from you. He knows the pain you are going through and your desire to honor him. That seems relatively apparent from your post. I hope you find the peace you need for this situation.

God Bless,
Matt

1 John 1:9
If we [freely] admit that we have sinned and confess our sins, He is faithful and just (true to His own nature and promises) and will forgive our sins [dismiss our lawlessness] and [continuously] cleanse us from all unrighteousness [everything not in conformity to His will in purpose, thought, and action].
Title: Re: adultery
Post by: Foxx on January 06, 2012, 01:19:49 PM

[/quote]
1 John 1:9
If we [freely] admit that we have sinned and confess our sins, He is faithful and just (true to His own nature and promises) and will forgive our sins [dismiss our lawlessness] and [continuously] cleanse us from all unrighteousness [everything not in conformity to His will in purpose, thought, and action].
[/quote]

I think that about sums it up right there!  ^_^
Title: Re: adultery
Post by: onelovedread on January 06, 2012, 03:04:37 PM
Matthew 5: 27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:  28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart. KJV

Based on these verses, I'm not sure that many of us men aren't guilty of adultery in Jesus' eyes. Ya mean none of us have looked at a woman lustfully?!! (That's why I hesitate to jump in here). Isn't it even possible that a eunuch could commit adultery?:-)
Title: Re: adultery
Post by: Deborah-Leigh on January 06, 2012, 04:26:14 PM


Isn't it even possible that a eunuch could commit adultery?:-)

That's an honest question onelovedread! :)
Title: Re: adultery
Post by: Gina on January 07, 2012, 02:18:49 AM
Isn't it even possible that a eunuch could commit adultery?:-)

I googled "what happens to a man who is castrated," and I got lots of information directly from the source.  The truth is they lose their sexual desire.  Boys who are castrated before puberty grow to sound and maybe look more (but not behave) like females AND all sexual desire for females (or whomever) never comes to fruition.  (FOOT CRAMP AS I TYPE.  AHHH   That kills.)  On the other hand, castrated adolescent boys/men will lose only their desire for sex.  They won't  grow to look more like women for the mere fact that they've had testosterone coursing through their veins and have
"matured." 

Listen to this:  There was a man who not long ago who was about to be released from prison (he was a pedophile) who requested castration because he knew he'd go back to raping / sodomizing children.  His request was denied--now that I find VERY strange.  But whatever.
Title: Re: adultery
Post by: Deborah-Leigh on January 07, 2012, 02:47:28 AM


Thanks for doing the research Gina! 8)

There is more to it, than meets the eye in  if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire.  ;D

Title: Re: adultery
Post by: Gina on January 07, 2012, 03:04:04 AM


Thanks for doing the research Gina! 8)

There is more to it, than meets the eye in  if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire.  ;D

You're welcome!

And...easier said than done.  That takes a work of God.  It baffles me to think that men have actually castrated themselves for the sake of the kingdom.  Thankfully for the men out there castration isn't a requirement and circumcision is of the heart.  I mean, if I were a man when I read that, I'd be so relieved.  No joke.

Title: Re: adultery
Post by: Deborah-Leigh on January 07, 2012, 03:17:53 AM

And...easier said than done.  That's takes a work of God.  It baffles me to think that men have actually castrated themselves for the sake of the kingdom.  Thankfully for the men out there castration isn't a requirement and circumcision is of the heart.  I mean, if I were a man when I read that, I'd be so relieved.  No joke.




EXACTLY Gina! ;D

I believe what this throws light on, is the fact that the carnality of human thinking renders many things as sinful and earning of death, than what God Himself sees as fault error or deserving of punishment.

As Ray points out. The term punish is used only once throughout Scriptures and that lends itself to the difference in the mind of man, who will punish the same sin over and over again....Just look at guilt and how often the mind will revisit a sin of ours, to keep beating us up, over and over again....

Not knowing then that God is Merciful, man prefers punishment and making what is good evil and what is evil good.

Shine light shine! ;D
Title: Re: adultery
Post by: Deborah-Leigh on January 07, 2012, 03:26:40 AM



PS...having TWO eyes, lends itself to the Scripture, if thine eye be SINGLE, that is nothing to do with physically having two or one eye....LOL or being single or married either!  ;D
Title: Re: adultery
Post by: Gina on January 07, 2012, 03:35:39 AM

And...easier said than done.  That's takes a work of God.  It baffles me to think that men have actually castrated themselves for the sake of the kingdom.  Thankfully for the men out there castration isn't a requirement and circumcision is of the heart.  I mean, if I were a man when I read that, I'd be so relieved.  No joke.




EXACTLY Gina! ;D

I believe what this throws light on, is the fact that the carnality of human thinking renders many things as sinful and earning of death, than what God Himself sees as fault error or deserving of punishment.

As Ray points out. The term punish is used only once throughout Scriptures and that lends itself to the difference in the mind of man, who will punish the same sin over and over again....Just look at guilt and how often the mind will revisit a sin of ours, to keep beating us up, over and over again....

Not knowing then that God is Merciful, man prefers punishment and making what is good evil and what is evil good.

Shine light shine! ;D

I see what you're saying, Deb, and I agree... to a point.  I definitely have a tendency to revisit my sin, and if I do beat myself up, perhaps that's what Paul meant when he said:

1 Corinthians 9:27
But [like a boxer] I buffet my body [handle it roughly, discipline it by hardships] and subdue it, for fear that after proclaiming to others the Gospel and things pertaining to it, I myself should become unfit [not stand the test, be unapproved and rejected as a counterfeit].

Did he literally handle his body roughly and subdue it?  I'm going to say no.  That was the messenger of Satan's job. 

I don't know about anyone else, but I don't prefer punishment over mercy.  I always beg God for mercy and this is why:  because while there may not be punishment for sin -- there is cause and effect.  I'm constantly revisiting my sin, true.  But I am also becoming  more cognizant of the fact that God has shown me great mercy.   Not every smoker gets lung cancer, not every alcoholic kills someone in a car crash or dies from cirrhosis of the liver, not every promiscuous person gets a sexually transmitted disease or what have you, but who in their right mind wants to take "chances"?    So I beat myself back (maybe not "up") but definitely back.  Take my own backside out to the woodshed.  haha

Title: Re: adultery
Post by: Gina on January 07, 2012, 03:53:03 AM
p.s.  Besides, what effect does our sin have on innocent bystanders.  And that's another huge reason to beat myself back, even if I didn't suffer consequences to my own  body or mind.  There are others who can be hurt (offended, if you will) by my sin.   Anyway, that's all for tonight.  I've rambled.  Forgive.
Muah!
Title: Re: adultery
Post by: Deborah-Leigh on January 07, 2012, 03:53:59 AM
I see your point Gina, to what Paul refers....

Quote
myself should become unfit [not stand the test, be unapproved and rejected as a counterfeit].


Yes...that which is unfit, rejected and counted as counterfeit IS the MY self that is the ego or the beast within sitting on the Throne of Christ in Temple that we are. 

Consider also Paul also wrote the following ~

Rom 7:5  For while we were living in the flesh, sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in our bodies to bear fruit for death.

Rom 12:1  I therefore urge you, brothers, in view of God's mercies, to offer your bodies as living sacrifices that are holy and pleasing to God, for this is the reasonable way for you to worship.

If you are not "in view of God's mercies" then living in the flesh as sinful passion aroused by the law, is the work of deliverance of  God's Spirit that saves the lost, restores the broken and uplifts the downtrodden leaving no one unfit, unapproved or rejected.

All are saved in view of God's mercies.  8)

 
Title: Re: adultery
Post by: Deborah-Leigh on January 07, 2012, 04:00:12 AM


p.s.  Besides, what effect does our sin have on innocent bystanders.  And that's another huge reason to beat myself back, even if I didn't suffer consequences to own body or mind.  There are others who can be hurt (offended, if you will) by my sin.   Anyway, that's all for tonight.  I've rambled.  Forgive.
Muah!

....."another huge reason to beat yourself"....will come to an end.  :) Thankfully! 8)

Rom 6:11  Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Title: Re: adultery
Post by: Deborah-Leigh on January 07, 2012, 04:33:15 AM


http://www.garretjohn.com/turn-on-tune-in-drop-out-2/

Christ is the sacred Light within the Temple of God that you are.
Title: Re: adultery
Post by: Gina on January 07, 2012, 07:38:39 AM
I see your point Gina, to what Paul refers....

Quote
myself should become unfit [not stand the test, be unapproved and rejected as a counterfeit].


Yes...that which is unfit, rejected and counted as counterfeit IS the MY self that is the ego or the beast within sitting on the Throne of Christ in Temple that we are. 

Consider also Paul also wrote the following ~

Rom 7:5  For while we were living in the flesh, sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in our bodies to bear fruit for death.

Rom 12:1  I therefore urge you, brothers, in view of God's mercies, to offer your bodies as living sacrifices that are holy and pleasing to God, for this is the reasonable way for you to worship.

If you are not "in view of God's mercies" then living in the flesh as sinful passion aroused by the law, is the work of deliverance of  God's Spirit that saves the lost, restores the broken and uplifts the downtrodden leaving no one unfit, unapproved or rejected.

All are saved in view of God's mercies.  8)

And that reminds me of this:

Philippians 2:12-13 (KJV)

Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

Thanks for corresponding with me, Deb!  It's a great comfort.  :)
Title: Re: adultery
Post by: Deborah-Leigh on January 07, 2012, 09:23:57 AM



Thanks for corresponding with me, Deb!  It's a great comfort.  :)


Immensely likewise Gina ~ likewise! 8) ;D
Title: Re: adultery
Post by: Gina on January 07, 2012, 06:18:57 PM


Thanks for doing the research Gina! 8)

There is more to it, than meets the eye in  if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire.  ;D

You're welcome!

And...easier said than done.  That takes a work of God.  It baffles me to think that men have actually castrated themselves for the sake of the kingdom.  Thankfully for the men out there castration isn't a requirement and circumcision is of the heart.  I mean, if I were a man when I read that, I'd be so relieved.  No joke.

 :o  Thanks for your concern!

Huh?
Title: Re: adultery
Post by: Heidi on January 08, 2012, 07:33:57 AM


Thanks for doing the research Gina! 8)

There is more to it, than meets the eye in  if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire.  ;D

You're welcome!

And...easier said than done.  That takes a work of God.  It baffles me to think that men have actually castrated themselves for the sake of the kingdom.  Thankfully for the men out there castration isn't a requirement and circumcision is of the heart.  I mean, if I were a man when I read that, I'd be so relieved.  No joke.

 :o  Thanks for your concern!

Huh?

Sarcasm and humor cannot be explained.  If God didn't give you the gift of understanding, then there is little I can do.  Reread the post and the humor may strike you.  It may manifest in deep laughter coming from your belly.  Oops sorry, I forgot.  Ladies don't have a belly, they have a tummy.   ;D

 ;D ;D ;D ;D  Good one....
Title: Re: adultery
Post by: Gina on January 10, 2012, 12:02:37 PM
I'd like to add one last thing.  I know the reason why I haven't ever gotten married-I know that I wouldn't be able to remain faithful.  And I wouldn't want to hurt a man that way.

In my recent distresses, I went on the hunt this morning for "why women cheat" and found a book by a woman named Michelle Langley.  Admittedly, I haven't read it yet, but her website info looks very promising.

All the best to you, Dre.  You are not alone!