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=> Off Topic Discussions => Topic started by: levycarneiro on June 15, 2012, 10:38:55 AM

Title: Interesting: why we have a short span of life
Post by: levycarneiro on June 15, 2012, 10:38:55 AM
Interesting...

While reading the article at [1] it reminded of Ray's video "From where did God's Knowledge & Wisdom come?", specially the part below about why this commentator thinks we have a short lifespan. This might be the one of the reasons why God chose - in wisdom - we should not have 700 or 900-years old people anymore.

"The Human Lifespan: Not a Limit but an Optimization

My belief is that the human lifespan is less the result of some hard limit due to cellular degeneration or the like, and more an optimization that balances physical and cultural evolution on the one hand, and the time needed to gestate and develop physical and intellectual complexity on the other.

"

[1] http://www.quora.com/Life/Why-do-living-things-die
Title: Re: Interesting: why we have a short span of life
Post by: indianabob on June 15, 2012, 04:07:21 PM
Hello Levycarneiro,
I'm one of those old fossils, age 77, but I am definitely not threatened by NEW ideas.
I like to think that our ancestors were just as adventurous as young folks in their teens and twenties.
Plus our progenitors, had original revealed knowledge and intellect and physical attributes that would put to shame those of us who are the result of centuries of deterioration and genetic diseases.
Contrary to popular scientific belief, our ancestors who lived in caves, if that be true, (I'm confident that they had ample building materials) had many advantages that we today do not enjoy. One of those advantages would have been insatiable curiosity and the physical/mental ability to take advantage of it. We on the other hand are the result of natural entropy due to disobedience to God's perfect laws.

Hoping to hear more from you in Brazil.

Indiana Bob USA
Title: Re: Interesting: why we have a short span of life
Post by: Kat on June 15, 2012, 06:04:37 PM
Hi levycarneiro,

It does make you wonder why Adams generation and those generations that proceeded Adam had such a longlife span. What has occurred to me is, well if you think about it, God was starting a whole new race with Adam and Eve. Maybe God allowed these first generations more time to populate, I mean a woman that lived to be 800 yrs or so would surely have many more child bearing yrs than women of lesser lifespans. So after a few centuries you could see that the population would be large enough and so the lifespan could be reduced.

Another idea is that Adam walked with God in the garden, maybe for yrs. I would think that God would have explained many things to Adam, as he was the beginning of a more sophisticated race of humans. You can see in a history timeline that inventions started to be noted after the time of Adam in history. I want to think that Adam was taught all these things by God and he passed it on to his children/generation. It would have explained a lot of how they had such knowledge to design and build the ancient wonders that have been found, instead of the ridiculous idea that aliens bought the knowledge here.

Most judge people of Adam's time as being evolution backwards from where we are now, and that would indicate they were barbaric and probably cave dwellers. When I think they may have been highly sophisticated and could have been taught how to use natural elements to their advantage. I think the Scriptures show there was ancient knowledge of astronomy, earth science, internal body functions, construction and mining metals. But it's interesting that most of that knowledge seems to have been lost over time, down through the age, until now when nobody believes it at all.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

Title: Re: Interesting: why we have a short span of life
Post by: santgem on June 16, 2012, 08:15:06 AM
Can not relate. Me below fifty's...LOL!  ;D

would rather hear from Senior Citizen. :D.... Again....Joke! joke! joke! :)
Title: Re: Interesting: why we have a short span of life
Post by: Joel on June 16, 2012, 11:32:09 AM
I can see that Genesis 11 holds clues that can explain a shorter life span after the Lord confused the builders of the tower in the land of Shinar ( Babel ).
Inbreeding could be a factor, without going into the pros and cons of such a practice.

Joel
Title: Re: Interesting: why we have a short span of life
Post by: indianabob on June 16, 2012, 01:33:08 PM
Interesting thoughts Joel,

It could also be that God did it arbitrarily. He does have a plan and once God started over with Abram it could be that the population of the earth was growing at the pace intended and that a shorter life span was enough of a challenge for the average human to have to endure before "rest and resurrection".

From a physical standpoint the longevity limiting radiation penetrating the atmosphere from the sun could have been altered by a change in the Van Allen belt's effectiveness.
The idea that God doesn't change should not be construed to teach that God cannot change conditions of our environment to control our life span.

Thanks for your ideas, Indianabob
Title: Re: Interesting: why we have a short span of life
Post by: Gina on June 16, 2012, 04:39:45 PM
Been reading this for the past two days.  This is great stuff and has started a flood of thoughts in me. 

Disclaimer:  :)  Pardon me while I think out loud.  I tend to do this a lot.  But no one's required to respond or even read what I'm about to say.  I always pray before I post and while I'm posting that I don't throw anyone off course with the things I say.

Arbitrarily (adverb)   -  Princeton's WordNet
randomly, indiscriminately, haphazardly, willy-nilly, arbitrarily, at random, every which way, in a random manner
"the houses were randomly scattered"; "bullets were fired into the crowd at random"

God only operates all after the counsel (or law, as Ray said) of His Own will.  (Eph 1:11) 

He definitely didn't do things "arbitrarily," or willy-nilly.  That's an idea straight out of the theory of evolution.  But I know what you mean, Bob.

So God's counsel/wisdom dictates that He do things AND that He do them in a specific manner/process/order and on a specific timeline.

To everything there is a season.  Ecc 3:1

Okay here are my personal thoughts on this thread, based on what I've read and believe:

There's a huge gap of "silence" between the times of the cavemen and the first Adam. 

And there's a huge gap of "silence" between the end of the OT and the beginning of the NT.  It's like Jesus just appeared on the scene much like the sun appears in the morning after a long, dark night.

And just like there's a HUGE gap between the first Adam and the Second Adam -- spiritually speaking.  We are eons apart as far as spiritual wisdom is concerned.  You can't compare the two.

There's no evolution, anywhere, not in "cavemen" evolving into the first Adam, or in the First Adam evolving into the Second Adam.  I don't see it happening that way.  It's out with the old and in with the new.  We are being regenerated, completely reworked.  Not simply evolving.

I believe that whoever was before the First Adam is symbolical of who we are before Christ shines out of the darkness and straight into our hearts and minds. 

As far as the (cave)man--yeah, he got around alright.  I imagine, like our old man, he probably thought he knew a lot too, because after all, he could hunt and kill with tools and whatnot and he was able to eat and survive for a time but not for long. 

But whatever tools he was using are becoming increasingly useless to us now as our knowledge grows.  Just like our old man absolutely cannot be weaved, by the process of "evolution," into our new life in Christ -- out with the old, in with the new. 

There's no place for any of what we used to be or use.   

Rev. 20:11  And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it [God sits on the throne of our hearts], from whose face the earth and the heaven [of our own mind] fled away; and there was found no place for them.

It'd be like putting an new patch on an old garment; new wine into old wine skins.

The physical (in this case -- the "cavemen" and then the first "Adam"), speaks to something spiritual:  the "old" caveman and our new Man. 

Old man has to go - every bit of it, otherwise, when our spirit's put into glorious Spiritual bodies, our spiritual body would ultimately be destroyed.

As far as our life spans being shortened -- why  did God purpose that Christ only be alive for 33-1/2 years on this earth?  That's half the life span of what Moses said a human lives on average.  Does it matter?  I don't know.  Just a thought.
Title: Re: Interesting: why we have a short span of life
Post by: indianabob on June 16, 2012, 06:37:41 PM
Thanks for the correction Gina,
I suppose I could have selected a better word.
I was thinking "without arbitration", God using His own counsel, not needing additional data.

God keeps His own counsel and does not submit His decisions to our approval.

Thanks for seeking a better word.

Bob
Title: Re: Interesting: why we have a short span of life
Post by: cjwood on June 16, 2012, 08:38:18 PM
amen gina.

claudia
Title: Re: Interesting: why we have a short span of life
Post by: Joel on June 17, 2012, 03:29:47 AM
I have thought on the subject of life spans of the human race off and on for many years now.
Some questions came to mind such as; what has shortened mans years more than anything? And sin has to rate right there at the top more than anything else.
In the books of kings we can read how each king recorded, served or didn't serve God and country and what God thought about them.
In most cases they were king for more years if they pleased God, and less if they didn't. Some being king for a year or less.
Another problem that arises concerning years of life is the 70 and 80 yrs. Question.
I have heard the verse in Psalms 90 quoted many times, where it is said in verse 10; The days of our years are threescore years and ten; and if by reason of strength they be fourscore years, yet is their strength labour and sorrow; for it is soon cut off, and we fly away.
Granted a lot of people do die around 70 or 80, but what about those that live to 90, 95, 100, 110, and yes even as old as 120yrs.
That is a problem if I read Psalms 90 as it is often times explained.  I got what I believe is the best explanation of this Chapter in Psalms years ago while reading through a 1980 edition called "The Amplified Bible", and the footnote at the bottom of the page says this;
This Psalm is credited to Moses, who is interceding with God to remove the curse which made it necessary for every Israelite over twenty years of age ( when they rebelled against God at Kadesh-barnea) to die before reaching the Promised Land (Num. 14:26-35).
Moses says most of them are dying at seventy years. This number has often been mistaken as a set span of life for all mankind. It was not intended to refer to any one except those Israelites under the curse during that particular forty years.
Seventy years never has been the average span of life for humanity. When Jacob, the father of the twelve tribes had reached 130 years (Gen. 47:9), he complained that he had not attained to the years of his immediate ancestors.
In fact, Moses himself lived to be 120, Aaron 123, Miriam several years older, and Joshua 110; while in the Millennium a person dying at 100 will still be a child (Isa. 65:20).

This has been a comfort to me seeing that I am not as young as I once was myself.

Joel
Title: Re: Interesting: why we have a short span of life
Post by: Gina on June 17, 2012, 04:40:57 AM
I have an Amplified, too, and never saw that before.  Are you saying the cumulative effects of man's sin down through the ages are what is causing mankind to die earlier than 120?  Or the sin in the individual life of each believer and non-believer?  Keep in mind that sin isn't what passed from man to man; it's death that passes from one man to the next.  Are we being judged collectively as sinners, or individually?  I'm pretty sure it's individually: Romans 14:12 So then, each of us will give an account of himself to God.

Still, 70-80 years (on average) isn't too far a cry from 120 years. 
 
Herbert Armstrong http://www.cogwriter.com/news/church-history/herbert-w-armstrong-died-23-years-ago/ (http://www.cogwriter.com/news/church-history/herbert-w-armstrong-died-23-years-ago/) was sinning up and down and all around--I'd even go so far as to say he was downright evil.  And look at what age he died -- 93 and a half! 

How come he lived as long as Ray's mother who was a very kindhearted woman?

Mao Zedong lived to 82.  Pretty evil guy.

Saddam Hussein could have possibly lived much longer than his 69 years, we won't know since he was killed.  But 69's not that short of a lifespan when you take into account all his evils.

If sin were the determining factor in a person's life expectancy then I think Saul (Apostle Paul) as murderous as he was ("chief" of all sinners) should have died at a very young age.

I don't believe that sin has any bearing on when a person dies.  I believe it's all decided by God:

Job 14:5  Seeing his days are determined, the number of his months are with you, you have appointed his bounds that he cannot pass;

And how about those who lived before Adam -- they had much shorter life spans; and not only that but they lived before the law was given; and as we've been told, where there is no law there is no transgression of the law (Rom 4:15).  So in effect, they, like the animals, didn't break any laws because there were no laws put in place to break; and therefore, they should have lived on average a long, long, long, long time. :D

I hope I don't sound like I'm nitpicking.
Title: Re: Interesting: why we have a short span of life
Post by: doug on June 17, 2012, 12:05:23 PM
Quote from: Gina on June 17, 2012, 04:40:57 AM
I have an Amplified, too, and never saw that before.  Are you saying the cumulative effects of man's sin down through the ages are what is causing mankind to die earlier than 120?  Or the sin in the individual life of each believer and non-believer?  Keep in mind that sin isn't what passed from man to man; it's death that passes from one man to the next.  Are we being judged collectively as sinners, or individually?  I'm pretty sure it's individually: Romans 14:12 So then, each of us will give an account of himself to God.

Still, 70-80 years (on average) isn't too far a cry from 120 years. 
 
Herbert Armstrong http://www.cogwriter.com/news/church-history/herbert-w-armstrong-died-23-years-ago/ (http://www.cogwriter.com/news/church-history/herbert-w-armstrong-died-23-years-ago/) was sinning up and down and all around--I'd even go so far as to say he was downright evil.  And look at what age he died -- 93 and a half! 

How come he lived as long as Ray's mother who was a very kindhearted woman?

Mao Zedong lived to 82.  Pretty evil guy.

Saddam Hussein could have possibly lived much longer than his 69 years, we won't know since he was killed.  But 69's not that short of a lifespan when you take into account all his evils.

If sin were the determining factor in a person's life expectancy then I think Saul (Apostle Paul) as murderous as he was ("chief" of all sinners) should have died at a very young age.

I don't believe that sin has any bearing on when a person dies.  I believe it's all decided by God:

Job 14:5  Seeing his days are determined, the number of his months are with you, you have appointed his bounds that he cannot pass;

And how about those who lived before Adam -- they had much shorter life spans; and not only that but they lived before the law was given; and as we've been told, where there is no law there is no transgression of the law (Rom 4:15).  So in effect, they, like the animals, didn't break any laws because there were no laws put in place to break; and therefore, they should have lived on average a long, long, long, long time. :D

I hope I don't sound like I'm nitpicking.

No Gina!! ----- You aren't nitpicking!!! LOL      I was fascinated by what Joel found in his Amplified bible for Psalm 90 and your contribution.  Very interesting discussion!   I had always thought that Psalm 90 inferred that God had "pegged" the longevity of mankind.... for all people... for all places.... for all time.  Maybe that wasn't the case?
Title: Re: Interesting: why we have a short span of life
Post by: doug on June 17, 2012, 12:44:19 PM
Quote from: indianabob on June 15, 2012, 04:07:21 PM


Plus our progenitors, had original revealed knowledge and intellect and physical attributes that would put to shame those of us who are the result of centuries of deterioration and genetic diseases.


Hi Bob,

Your's is a good assumption.  I tend to think that this societies present knowledge is the accumulative effect of centuries of preserved recorded knowledge (but of course not God's Wisdom revealed by the Holy Spirit being accumulative), and that is why imo we are as advanced to the point we are today.  You wipe out most of the recorded scientific knowledge (natural disasters, war etc.) and we would be back to "square one"!  I, like you, believe early man was far more intelligent than we are today as evidenced by the many ancient unexplainable structures still standing.  Scientists are baffled as to the how and why.
Title: Re: Interesting: why we have a short span of life
Post by: Gina on June 17, 2012, 03:28:46 PM
I don't know about that, Doug.   ;) 

Was Jesus impressed with Job's knowledge? (Job was a Pharoah who built pyramids.)
Anything built with a foundation that expansive would be pretty hard to topple over -- pyramids aren't exactly top-heavy.  www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/03/080328104302.htm (http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/03/080328104302.htm)

Was Jesus impressed with those who built those stone temples?

ha, ha, You guys remind me of this verse:  Mark 13:1 And as he went out of the temple, one of his disciples saith unto him, Master, see what manner of stones and what buildings are here! 2And Jesus answering said unto him, Seest thou these great buildings? there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

Our ancestors (before Adam) didn't live past 20, 30, 40 years on average.  They couldn't have been that intelligent.

What about the Redwood trees?  They were made by God, have been around thousands of years, and are still alive.  http://listverse.com/2011/07/30/10-magnificent-living-trees/  (http://listverse.com/2011/07/30/10-magnificent-living-trees/)Those pyramids and other structures have no life in them at all).

Mat. 6:27  Which of you by taking thought can add one cubit unto his stature?  28 And why take you thought for clothing? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they toil not, neither do they spin: 29 And yet I say unto you, That even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these.

Jesus basically said Solomon's glory paled in comparison to the lilies of the field.  HA! Wow!  What a compliment! (And Solomon wasn't stupid!) 

And Jesus was basically saying that all the cumulative/collective knowledge we may have acquired down through the ages will never be enough to add one cubit to our stature (or life).

Who can add one cubit to his stature by taking thought?  Jesus didn't think they were very smart.

Still, this is a fascinating discussion.  Thanks for allowing me to post my thoughts.
Title: Re: Interesting: why we have a short span of life
Post by: Kat on June 17, 2012, 06:10:12 PM

There are many ideas out there to try to explain how God brought about the reduction of the lifespan from Adam's generation: the diets of the time; a change in the biochemical nature of humans, speeding up programmed cell death (apoptosis); the flood caused a 'genetic bottleneck' which limited the gene pool; harsher environment after the flood; etc. Whatever the cause it seems clear to me that God had pre-determined for this and brought it about according to His time table exactly as He wanted it to be.

(http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z176/Kathyliveshere/Life_Spans_Before_and_After_Flood.png)
http://creationwiki.org/File:Life_Spans_Before_and_After_Flood.PNG

It seems evident to me that God has also prevented the accumulation of worldly knowledge and it's spread to a great extent over the centuries. One way was limiting mankind's interaction since Babel, spreading us out over the earth. Up until resent yrs there was not a quick or easy ways to communicate across the miles, to share knowledge. Then think of all the wars that brought destruction of invaluable sources of knowledge, one was the Library of Alexandria and all its contents (vase collection of scrolls said to contain much known knowledge around the world), it burned sometime around the first or second century AD. You can only imagine what was lost during the Dark Ages and the cultural and economic deterioration that occurred at that time. All these things may have hindered the continuation of some knowledge being passed on, but I do not believe that it would have been the reasons for the dramatic shortened lifespan.

But we can see that at this time knowledge is been permitted to increase at an expedient rate, obviously also pre-determined to be so. Instant communication in most cases, doesn't everybody have a cell phone :)  Travel carries us to great distances in relative short time periods... what would peopel from the pass think of jet planes or fast cars for that matter. The biggest means may be the internet though, it is a tremendous means for most anybody to research, exchange and spread information/knowledge and it most certainly came about exactly when and how it did by God's will.

Dan 12:4  "But you, Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book until the time of the end; many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall increase."

mercy, peace and love
Kat

Title: Re: Interesting: why we have a short span of life
Post by: musicman on June 18, 2012, 03:49:00 PM
I'm pretty sure that most of us agree that there were societies of men (and women) alive prior to Adam.  Furthur, most should realize that these people did not live hundreds of years (Maybe 30 or 40 would be closer).  And of course the seeds of Adam mixed with them, shortening the lives of their children.  It seems that the last of the long livers were destroyed during the locolized flood. 
Title: Re: Interesting: why we have a short span of life
Post by: Gina on June 18, 2012, 05:02:24 PM
Whoa, Musicman. 

Gen. 6:4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bore children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

Archeologists found remains of "men of old" (what we call cavemen?) and they were huge -- like, 8-9 feet tall.  And you said that they lived no more than 40 years and that seems to fit perfectly with what you said about them mixing with Adam's seed.    It's a known fact that the larger a person is the shorter their life will be ... on average. 

I'll have to give it more study though, but very cool.  Thank you.
Title: Re: Interesting: why we have a short span of life
Post by: musicman on June 18, 2012, 05:17:56 PM
No Gina, that was Shaq that they found.  They couldn't find him on the basketball court last year (at least around the hoop because he was huffing it down the court while the game went on).  Anyway, the Archeologists decided that he should be doing pregame commentary for NBA games now and so turned over his fossils.
Title: Re: Interesting: why we have a short span of life
Post by: Gina on June 18, 2012, 05:19:42 PM
Think we could stay on topic?
Title: Re: Interesting: why we have a short span of life
Post by: indianabob on June 19, 2012, 01:07:03 AM
Gina,
Is the Bible correct to say that only eight persons survived the "flood"?
Does this account for the remaining Giants if any?
Or were they protected somewhere else and came out of hiding to fight David?

Bob
Title: Re: Interesting: why we have a short span of life
Post by: Gina on June 19, 2012, 01:17:07 AM
Aw Bob you stumped me.  Please, watch this gif while I formulate my reply:

(http://gifsoup.com/imager.php?id=1059156&t=o) (http://gifsoup.com/view/1059156/scarlet-o-hara-war-war-war.html) GIFSoup (http://gifsoup.com/)   

 ;D
Title: Re: Interesting: why we have a short span of life
Post by: Gina on June 19, 2012, 01:52:37 AM
Okay, I'm back.  Bob, you ask GOOD questions.  As I said in my previous response to musicman, I'll have to give it more study -- a lot more study.  Maybe someone else has the answer for you.  But I'll say this:  There were 8 people who survived the flood, but we all know the flood wasn't global; so were they in hiding?  I'd have to speculate, and I won't do that.

Do you think I should remove my reply to musicman about the giants?  Because I have no problem doing that. 
Title: Re: Interesting: why we have a short span of life
Post by: indianabob on June 19, 2012, 02:34:43 AM
Gina,

Thanks for the response and the video of the 1941 film "Gone with the Confederacy", I think.

Regarding removing what was previously sent, only if your conscience dictates, otherwise no.
Musicman is a big boy and can defend himself quite adequately and if you remove what was previously stated the other readers will become confused trying to determine what prompted his defense.

Indianabob (Ibob)
Title: Re: Interesting: why we have a short span of life
Post by: Gina on June 19, 2012, 02:52:48 AM
That's iBob -- "like" the iMac.  Only, you're so much smarter.

Glad you liked the gif.  You know, Gone with the Confederacy or Gone with the Wind -- same thing.  They were just a bunch of blowhards after all, right?   

Thanks for the advice.   :)

 ;)

Title: Re: Interesting: why we have a short span of life
Post by: musicman on June 19, 2012, 12:57:22 PM
Quote from: indianabob on June 19, 2012, 02:34:43 AM
Gina,

Thanks for the response and the video of the 1941 film "Gone with the Confederacy", I think.

Regarding removing what was previously sent, only if your conscience dictates, otherwise no.
Musicman is a big boy and can defend himself quite adequately and if you remove what was previously stated the other readers will become confused trying to determine what prompted his defense.

Indianabob (Ibob)

I wasn't defending anything.  It was a joke.  I'm sure that giants after the flood only goes to show that there were many people living outside of flood zone.
Title: Re: Interesting: why we have a short span of life
Post by: levycarneiro on June 27, 2012, 02:46:08 PM
Quote from: indianabob on June 15, 2012, 04:07:21 PM
Hello Levycarneiro,
I'm one of those old fossils, age 77, but I am definitely not threatened by NEW ideas.
I like to think that our ancestors were just as adventurous as young folks in their teens and twenties.
Plus our progenitors, had original revealed knowledge and intellect and physical attributes that would put to shame those of us who are the result of centuries of deterioration and genetic diseases.
Contrary to popular scientific belief, our ancestors who lived in caves, if that be true, (I'm confident that they had ample building materials) had many advantages that we today do not enjoy. One of those advantages would have been insatiable curiosity and the physical/mental ability to take advantage of it. We on the other hand are the result of natural entropy due to disobedience to God's perfect laws.

Hoping to hear more from you in Brazil.

Indiana Bob USA

Hello Bob!

Thanks for the comment. All this thread has made me change my mind about several topics already! I truly enjoy being part of the BT family.

God bless!
Levy
Title: Re: Interesting: why we have a short span of life
Post by: doug on June 27, 2012, 03:28:12 PM
Quote from: indianabob on June 15, 2012, 04:07:21 PM

I'm one of those old fossils, age 77, but I am definitely not threatened by NEW ideas.


Hi Bob -

Your statement on accepting new ideas brings to mind a quote from a recent centenarian I've always kept in my thots:

"one reason I attribute to my longevity is to embrace change... even if it slaps you in the face."

He was still mentally adept and going strong!

I have also equally believed and adhered to this quote of yours:


We on the other hand are the result of natural entropy due to disobedience to God's perfect laws. [end quote]

I believe it is because of this reason that mankind dies off as early as we do (in God's perfect plan) with the corrupted food supply offered to each of us -- our polluted environment (air, water, ozone etc. ) and the mutations in our genetic makeup.

hey - btw ---   since Plymouth is so close to Auburn.... I was wondering if the Auburn car show was still going on? Auburns were some of the most beautiful automobiles I have seen.  I was in attendance once in '85.  Have an uncle and cousins who live there.

doug
Title: Re: Interesting: why we have a short span of life
Post by: Gina on July 12, 2012, 05:33:23 AM
Quote from: indianabob on June 19, 2012, 01:07:03 AM
Gina,
Is the Bible correct to say that only eight persons survived the "flood"?
Does this account for the remaining Giants if any?
Or were they protected somewhere else and came out of hiding to fight David?

Bob

I'm ready.  This is not a shot in the dark------------well, maybe.

I do agree and believe that there were 8 people who entered the huge ark. 

I do agree and believe that Noah gathered all sorts of animals, etc.,

We are talking HUGE amounts of work to be done. 

(And that reminds me of a song I'm gonna post.  It's  too 8) for school.)

Does anyone remember how Ray says -- a statement of fact is not a statement of limitation? Hmmm?

Gen 6:4  There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that [those days], when the sons of God [the First Adam/Humanity - as in:  Let Us make HUMANITY in Our image] came in unto the daughters of men [why OF men and not of God, like the sons of God? Is it possible that these daughters of men would have been daughters of the aforementioned giants?], and they [the big girls?] bare children to them [sons of God], the same [children] became mighty men.  Mighty men?  Mighty like  giants?

These are valid questions.

I wouldn't want to make an idol out of this or anything--but how unlikely would it be to assume that God kept some of those mighty men and giants around for the express purpose of taking care of all those animals?  It would have taken a boatload of people to do all that work.  Heck, the giants I imagine helped get some of those larger animals into the ark.

So my "theory" is that these same giants came out from Noah's ark and that's how they would have survived the flood and in that way were, as you said, "protected and came out of hiding."  Did these giants then go to fight David?  I don't know the answer to that question.
But I had fun figuring that other stuff out. :)

 8)110









Title: Re: Interesting: why we have a short span of life
Post by: indianabob on July 12, 2012, 09:48:34 AM
Hi Gina and all,
So many unsubstantiated "facts" to unravel.
I will get back to ya'll on this after my appointment for Depo-medrol.
It's for my steel knee which is swollen, limiting my work out at the Gym.
I know, I know steel doesn't swell, but the tissue around it does.
Plus some of this stuff I have to research in my human anatomy texts.

Regards, Ole Bob (who was on the big boat 4300 years ago) in spirit
Title: Re: Interesting: why we have a short span of life
Post by: Shawn Fainn on July 12, 2012, 10:58:08 AM
Quote from: Gina on July 12, 2012, 05:33:23 AM
So my "theory" is that these same giants came out from Noah's ark and that's how they would have survived the flood and in that way were, as you said, "protected and came out of hiding."  Did these giants then go to fight David?  I don't know the answer to that question.
But I had fun figuring that other stuff out. :)
 8)110

I'm thinking these 'giants' might rock the boat a bit...  ;D

(http://theselvedgeyard.files.wordpress.com/2009/07/andre-the-giant.jpg?w=600&h=793)
Title: Re: Interesting: why we have a short span of life
Post by: Kat on July 12, 2012, 11:59:43 AM

I believe the Bible account of only 8 people entering the ark and coming out of that great flood alive. But I do not believe that it was a worldwide event, there are just too many things that Ray brought out that indicate that it was not. Therefore the giants could certainly survived.

But as far as it being referred to as the whole world, it occurred to me that history books refer to ancient rulers such as Alexander the Great to have conquered the whole world. Yet we know that he did not even know there was the American continents, much less conquer this part of the world. What I'm getting at is that it was the 'whole' known world to them.

Another problem I have with the flood being worldwide is how would all the animals that are indigenous to certain parts of the world have gotten to the ark? I mean seriously what about the kangaroos in Australia and all those unique and rare animals in Madagascar. And what about America? We have many animals not found in Europe, such as the American bison (Buffalo), cougar, porcupine, coyote, raccoon, badger, etc. Now how did they make their way to the ark? The flood did not resulted in mass extinction of these animal, because they are still here.

Anyway there are just way too many problems with the flood being worldwide and Ray gave a very plausible explanation of how it was not. So anyway that's just some thoughts.

mercy, peace and love
Kat



Title: Re: Interesting: why we have a short span of life
Post by: Ireland on July 12, 2012, 12:39:01 PM
Interesting topic and alot to learn and see in this thread. I will add a few thoughts in regards to the scriptures dealing with these Sons of God. I believe they are the ones spoken of in Job 38:7, Psa 45:7 and Psa 89:6.
These Sons of God in Genesis were supposed to look after these people on the earth and deal righteously with them. These were heavenly beings that gave up their first estate and sinned by marrying these daughters of men. Jude 1:6 seems to be the verse in referrence to these Sons of God and their punishment for disobeying God. I look forward to the further exploration of this topic. Thanks
Title: Re: Interesting: why we have a short span of life
Post by: Gina on July 12, 2012, 01:11:39 PM
Yes, Kat.  The flood wasn't global.  You make excellent points.  The church should have never taught the flood was global and discounted that there were cavemen (which they say goes against scripture) and a lot of nonsense could have been avoided.  But alas that's not the way God would design it.  That's why I think it's so amazing these times we live in with our technology.

Hi Ireland:  The sons of God were not:

while the morning stars sang together and all the angels shouted for joy? Job 38:7

You love righteousness, and hate wickedness: therefore God, your God, has anointed you with the oil of gladness above your fellows. Psalm 45:7

For who in the skies above can compare with the LORD? Who is like the LORD among the heavenly beings? (Psalm 89:6)

Here's what Ray has said regarding the matter:

The angels CANNOT MARRY (they have no 'marriage apparatus' if you know what I mean). Yet we are told in Gen. 6:2, that "they took them WIVES of all which they chose." To have a "wife" one must be "MARRIED."   The sons of God and the daughters of men are BOTH HUMAN. 
( http://bible-truths.com/email12.htm )

"...they have no marriage apparatus if you know what I mean."  Ha! See now that makes a lot of sense.

Gina



Title: Re: Interesting: why we have a short span of life
Post by: Gina on July 12, 2012, 01:21:28 PM
Precisely Hudson -- Andre the Giant!  He's just one example of a giant that we know of.
 
Title: Re: Interesting: why we have a short span of life
Post by: Kat on July 12, 2012, 02:06:47 PM

Hi Ireland,

Gen 6:2  the sons of God saw the daughters of men, that they were good. And they took wives for themselves from all whom they chose.

Among the people of that time there were those that were known to serve God/obey God, such as the family of Seth.

Gen 4:26  And there was also a son born to Seth, and he called his name Enos. Then men began to call upon the name of Jehovah.

Now it is not hard to think that those people that showed special reverence to God were considered/called "sons of God." There are Scripture that indicate that.

Psa 82:6  I have said, You are gods; and all of you sons of the Most High.
v. 7  But you shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes.

Now those others that were referred to as the "daughters of men" may have been the rest that were not so godly/righteous. One family that comes to mind is Cain's. Would the Scripture that says "Cain went away from the presence of the Lord" suggest that he did not serve/obey God after he was cursed (well not before that as well)?

Gen 4:16  Then Cain went away from the presence of the LORD and settled in the land of Nod, east of Eden.

I just think there are plausible explanations for this, rather than the notion that literal ethereal angels were marrying physical women. Even all the different forms of flesh (fish, birds, animals and human), these cannot mix and reproduce, now alone things from different realms of being.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

Title: Re: Interesting: why we have a short span of life
Post by: indianabob on July 12, 2012, 04:50:19 PM
Thanks all for your contributions.

To me it is just like the secular person asking whether God is a male or a female or calling God ( the creator God) HER instead of HIM. It is just human foolishness from those not understanding the idea of spiritual or (unknown to us) things of the so called spiritual world or realm.
Spirit is not a definitive word as used in the English Bible. The word is just a substitute for saying in more words (it is something we can't see or touch and don't understand other than that it has an effect)
For example; God causes us to come to understand certain things about God's self that we didn't read or were not taught by another person. How so? By the working of God's spirit! That's what Paul taught in Galations 1:6-20. So what is the spirit of God? What does it mean "the working of God's spirit? It Just means that God gave him the understanding directly to his mind without vibrating the air to bring sound to Paul's ear. Or sending light beams through Paul's eye retina. It means giving Paul visions directly to his BRAIN. Visions of the night or visions of the day so that Paul gradually began to understand things written in Scripture and other things that Paul had not even read in the gospel, mysteries (God's previously unrevealed secrets) by a miracle of God's doing.

Gal 1:11  But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
Gal 1:12  For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ. Read all please.
Also Ephesians 3:3:7

The point is that the so called spiritual realm is separate from the physical one unless God brings them together. There is no reason for an angel (messenger) to have reproductive capacity. God can create as many Angels as God wants. Reproduction is for humans only so that they may in a small way share with God the engendering of new life with the potential of life immortal.

One comment about loading the ark. I believe the Bible says that God caused the animals to come up two by two but with seven of the clean species. Noah didn't have to do a thing and certainly didn't have to search for them or decide which were appropriate for saving. Regarding size, they all could have been immature yearlings. Regarding variations of species, God can subdivide anyway he wants it is only man that cannot husband animals into subspecies of man's choosing. We need only one lion and one bear and one ape species with adaptive genes already in place.

Just my view that we should not limit God, only our own experimentation.

Indianabob
Title: Re: Interesting: why we have a short span of life
Post by: Gina on July 13, 2012, 02:06:36 AM
Yeah, no need to make  an idol of the heart out of that, like I said.  But it's better than sitting in a bar throwing back margaritas.    ;D   IMHO

How the animals were caused by God to enter the ark remains to be seen?   From what I can tell from my short time here on earth is that, animals are not typically fond of being cooped up; I picture them having to be captured or dragged in against their will. 

I can also see that you're not fond of my giants being in the ark.  Okay, let's do it your way. ;)

Let's assume Noah didn't need to do anything to get the animals in the ark and God just directed them in in twos (or whatevers), you really think 8 people could have taken care of all those animals?  They'd have to be washed and fed and their cages needed cleaning; these animals weren't doing all that themselves.  And what if they were giving birth to their young and multiplying while in the ark?  I don't know but I think some large farm hands would come in rather, um, handy. :P  ;D 

:)

Well anyhoo--I hope all goes well tomorrow for you and the swelling goes down.
Title: Re: Interesting: why we have a short span of life
Post by: Ireland on July 13, 2012, 10:35:54 PM
Hi Gina and Bob. I have to disagree with you both, but I am always open to be corrected if I am in the wrong. That is our job as believers in my opinion. We all have to taught by the Father and corrected often. It is humbling but also a blessing when we can learn from each other. Otherwise we would all become arrogant and unteachable. It is my impression that none of us want that. Thanks for sharing your thoughts and I mean that sincerely. I used to believe the same thing you both did about these Sons of God, but feel strongly that if L. Ray had more time he would take a longer look at this topic. There is now way any one man can study and learn of all the thousands of subjects in the scriptures in one life time.
Here is the verse I want to propose to you all and that is Job 38:7. Please take a look if you have the time or inclination. Have a good weekend to everyone!
Title: Re: Interesting: why we have a short span of life
Post by: cjwood on July 13, 2012, 11:14:43 PM
as far as the ark and the animals; how they got there, how they would be fed, and what to do with all the poo, i just tell myself that NO job is too big for God.  i mean, He created the WHOLE universe and every little bitty, minute detail for ALL of it.  so, that helps me when trying to figure out these kind of things.

claudia
Title: Re: Interesting: why we have a short span of life
Post by: Kenneth Clark on July 13, 2012, 11:28:55 PM
Let's assume Noah didn't need to do anything to get the animals in the ark and God just directed them in in twos (or whatevers), you really think 8 people could have taken care of all those animals?  They'd have to be washed and fed and their cages needed cleaning; these animals weren't doing all that themselves.  And what if they were giving birth to their young and multiplying while in the ark?  I don't know but I think some large farm hands would come in rather, um, handy.     

unless...unless...it was just as a miracle as the parting of the red sea.   totally off topic...but...has anyone ever googled map mount Sinai?  its in Saudi Arabia and clearly seen from above...i just jumped in here and am maybe way off topic, but its sooooo cool and only reinforces my faith.
Title: Re: Interesting: why we have a short span of life
Post by: Kenneth Clark on July 13, 2012, 11:30:46 PM
how do i highlight others words to not look like my own...not computer junk savoy
Title: Re: Interesting: why we have a short span of life
Post by: Kat on July 13, 2012, 11:52:37 PM

Hi Kenneth,

To highlight you drag the cursor over the part you want to separate out and leave it darkened. Then go up to the symbol boxes above the box for writing out your post and select the box that when you hold the cursor over it it will read 'insert quote,' left click that box. You can practice and 'preview' to see if it comes up right (scroll up to see the preview), as only the bracketed letters will show before you post.

You do the same to make your print BOLD, click on the box with the B, and the box with the slant I for italic print, and to underline it's the box with the U.

Kat
Title: Re: Interesting: why we have a short span of life
Post by: Kenneth Clark on July 14, 2012, 12:01:40 AM
Quote from: Kat on July 13, 2012, 11:52:37 PM

Hi Kenneth,

To highlight you drag the cursor over the part you want to separate out and leave it darkened. Then go up to the symbol boxes above the box for writing out your post and select the box that when you hold the cursor over it it will read 'insert quote,' left click that box. You can practice and 'preview' to see if it comes up right (scroll up to see the preview), as only the bracketed letters will show before you post.

You do the same to make your print BOLD, click on the box with the B, and the box with the slant I for italic print, and to underline it's the box with the U.

Kat

test...did i get it?
Title: Re: Interesting: why we have a short span of life
Post by: Kenneth Clark on July 14, 2012, 12:02:33 AM
yep...thanks Kat
Title: Re: Interesting: why we have a short span of life
Post by: Joel on July 14, 2012, 02:15:24 AM
There are some questions that come to mind concerning the flood of Noah's day.
What could the world population at that time have been? God knew what amount of water would be needed to destroy everthing that needed to be destroyed.
We know by the scriptures that he used just enough fire and brimstone to take care of Soddom and Gomorrah. I don't think he used a lot of overkill in either occasion.
The Bible says that he set the bounds for the seas, so why couldn't he have done the same during the time of the flood? And was the earth's land to water ratio the same as it is today, did the continents exist as they do now?
2nd Peter 2:5 And spared NOT the OLD world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;

Joel
Title: Re: Interesting: why we have a short span of life
Post by: Kat on July 14, 2012, 10:29:10 AM

Hi Joel,

The flood was in 2285BC, according to a study Ray did, link to Bible study http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,10047.0.html  So that puts the flood around 4297 yrs ago. The continental drift is continuing even now at about as fast as fingernails grow. So even in thousands of yrs it is not enough to have any impact to how the animals traveled across vast areas of land and water to reach the ark. There were animals spread over every land mass and many species were isolated in certain areas. I'm not suggesting that God could not have worked miracles to have made that happen, but to save every species... resent estimates have it at about 8.7 million, many requiring special habitat to survive.

Even if God just put one cat type animal to represent them all (well over 100 wild and domesticated breeds) and then when that one was released it was to go out and regenerate all the differing breeds and they were to spread out into their known habitate of today. There is no scientific evidence of such a thing happening.

This idea goes against all the scientific research of animal life that we have. Sure God could have miraculously done it all, but where is the evidence that should be still present if such a thing happened?

Anyway just trying to look at from a realistic viewpoint.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

Title: Re: Interesting: why we have a short span of life
Post by: doug on July 14, 2012, 05:38:23 PM
Hey Kat -

I've been following your and Joel's discussion, and these "earth beginnings" ideas interest me too.

As I had once stated in my intro, I needed to do a complete paradigm shift in many of my interpretations and especially with the "young earth" theory and also a "world-wide" flood.  I had believed that in the days of Peleg that the "earth" was divided.
A catastrophic event indeed!  Now, I believe that it was the nations divided, with languages, customs etc.

Here is a gif of what I believe now..... only at a "fingernails" growth pace!

(http://i1240.photobucket.com/albums/gg493/watchman2011/earthdivided.gif)

I am still wondering how the Ice Age and the raising and lowering of the sea levels fit into the picture.  ???

doug
Title: Re: Interesting: why we have a short span of life
Post by: indianabob on July 14, 2012, 10:15:46 PM
Hi Doug,
Just wondering whether the option of Subsidence would substitute for plate tectonics. Only because subsidence would leave the land masses in place above the molten lava rather than having the land masses travel thousands of miles. It would cause a lot less trauma for the planet if the molten lava oozed away from under the ocean beds rather than having the whole plate, several miles thick with all its underpinnings, moving however slowly just to satisfy the supposed need for the animals to have been able to migrate on foot and not on the ships of humans transporting them for commerce.

Bob
Title: Re: Interesting: why we have a short span of life
Post by: doug on July 14, 2012, 10:48:26 PM
Hey Bob!

I only know of continental drift as the seismic movements of the earth's plate/crust that as it cools over time it cracks, forming the plates and drifting above the earth's molten core, or lava as you suggest.  I didn't know that there was any other theory.

This goes very slowly of course... about 3 centimeters per year is what the scientists tell us.   Actually we are just floating around on the earth's upper mantle.  Kinda like a concrete worker kneeling on a board over newly poured wet concrete.  The earth's core being so hot as it is will cause this mantle convection to pull along the oceanic and Continental plates for a long while to come!  You would think that after billions of years of cooling that the earth would have completely cooled off by now!

doug

Title: Re: Interesting: why we have a short span of life
Post by: indianabob on July 14, 2012, 11:32:07 PM
Doug,
Appreciate your additional information.
The question that keeps bothering me is the millions of years that we seem to be assuming for change of any great magnitude. What about catastrophic changes?

Imagine how God assembled the earth in the first instance with all the requirements of lava for the mantle and a magnetic field for electric power and of balance of systems to keep it rotating and orbiting and retaining a moon and holding a certain amount of air of a certain special chemical mix in order to sustain life as we know it.
With all that was needed for the original requirements why is it absolutely necessary that it be millions of years old? Do we think that God had to assemble the earth one step at a time? I don't.
Title: Re: Interesting: why we have a short span of life
Post by: Kat on July 15, 2012, 01:32:22 AM

Bob, certainly you are aware of Ray's 2008 Nashville Conference? These things were the main topics that he discussed over those 2 days and we received the primary points after his studying this for a year or more. He had to dug through tons of scientific information to put together that conference material and one thing that he made quite clear was that the young earth theory did not have a leg to stand on. I for one am very thankful for all the work he did, it cleared up a lot of these issues and made me aware of things I had not even considered. I now have a much better Biblical and logical understanding. Here is the links for anyone interested.

Transcript
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,9502.0.html

Audios
Saturday morning part #1: http://bible-truths.com/audio/Nash08ConfSession1.mp3
Saturday morning part #2: http://bible-truths.com/audio/Nash08ConfSession2.mp3
Saturday morning part #3: http://bible-truths.com/audio/Nash08ConfSession3.mp3
Saturday morning part #4: http://bible-truths.com/audio/Nash08ConfSession4.mp3
Saturday morning part #5: http://bible-truths.com/audio/Nash08ConfSession5.mp3
Saturday morning part #6: http://bible-truths.com/audio/Nash08ConfSession6.mp3

mercy, peace and love
Kat

Title: Re: Interesting: why we have a short span of life
Post by: Gina on July 15, 2012, 03:10:41 AM
Kat,

Thanks for pulling out those links and for your comment. 

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see the material that Ray diligently researched and then presented -- at his own expense while suffering from bone cancer -- makes logical sense.

"Where Did God Get Knowledge" excerpt:

I ask the question... I had a debate with Jeff Priddy, I friend of mine, has some screwy ideas, but he’s a nice guy. I was talking about emotions and he said, ‘Ray God does not have emotions.’ I said, well what is love and how come God is love, if God does not have emotion. He said, ‘No, that’s just for human terms and He is so way above and beyond that and everything else.’ 

But then over time I got to thinking about that and I said, wait a minute in Galatians 5 we are given a list of the fruits of God Spirit. One of them in the King James is longsuffering.  Okay longsuffering, what does that mean? Patience. What is that made up of? Is it made up as an archaic English term? 

Longsuffering - to suffer long. One of the fruits of God Spirit is to suffer long. How can it be a fruit of God’s Spirit if He doesn’t even possess it Himself? 

I told somebody that I was going to ask a question at this conference; Did God ever do an honest days work in His life? I mean a really hard day’s work. Did He? Well you would say, ‘well He created the universe, that was a little work.’ No, all these Christians theologies say He just spoke it, let there be stars… let there be suns and moons… let there be an earth… let there this and that… just let there be... let it be... let it be... and there you are.  Wow, I’m tried I think I’ll rest a day.

Did God ever do an honest hard days work in His life? You say, ‘Ray it doesn’t apply, you can’t apply what we do to what He does.’ How can you say it doesn’t apply? Jesus Christ worked and He suffered, He had long suffering and He had patience and He was the very image of His Father! The expressed stamped image of His Father! And we are to be in the image of Jesus Christ (Rom. 08). In the very image of God and the very image of Jesus Christ, our elder brother.

So how could Jesus have all this love and all this patience and all this mercy and He said everything He got came from His Father? Every thought He thought, every word He spoke, every deed He done came from His Father. How can you say the Father doesn’t have patience? 

Patience is doing without something you want, but you can’t have it now. You have to exercise patience. You might even have to have long suffering, you might have to suffer long. That is a fruit of God’s Spirit.

I could never believe in my heart of hearts that God would expect of us, things that He would not move His little finger to do Himself.

Jesus Christ berated the Pharisees. He said you load these heavy heavy burdens on people, very difficult for them to do what you tell them they need to do to be holy and righteous and good. Yet you would not move them with one of your fingers.

Mat 23:4  For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.

Is He accusing the Pharisees of something His own Father is guilty of? Are you following me? Is Jesus Christ condemning and berating the Pharisees for something His own Father is guilty of… that He lays heavy burdens on us and He wouldn’t lift them with one of His fingers, but we have to? We have to suffer through sixty or eighty years of sometimes horrible misery and disease and heartache and everything. What does God know about that? Nothing? I don’t think so. I don’t buy that nonsense anymore. I think that God has gone through a lot for us.


Love that.  So how much patience do we believe God needed to create the universe and deal with the sin of humanity for the last 2000 years, alone?  Logic dictates it would necessarily take heaping hordes of patience.  If we're in doubt, all we have to do is look at our own little lives and marriages and children, if we have them; or of the lives, etc., of those around us.   Life's not easy; and if your life is easy (little or no troubles, persecutions, etc.,) that's not exactly a good sign.

:)
Title: Re: Interesting: why we have a short span of life
Post by: the truth on July 16, 2012, 06:27:05 PM
Hello,All

I am really reluctant to post this because I don't want anyone to get offended over it.But hopefully that want happen.Because this is just My thoughts on the subject   Sons of God......Sons of Seth?Which Ireland stated he believed it was fallen angels.Which many disagree and that's fine .Just ask for the grace to share my thoughts that all.


Jerry Bulla

Message flagged

Sunday, July 15, 2012 8:55 PM
 

 
 



interesting subject!

Would like to comment on it.As Ireland shared something I have found pretty interesting myself .

I want to say first that this is a tuff topic in regards to the Sons of God because people seem to be pretty dogmatic about either side.

What is it Sons of God ....Angels..fallen or the Sons of Seth?

Ray said this:Here's what Ray has said regarding the matter:

The angels CANNOT MARRY (they have no 'marriage apparatus' if you know what I mean). Yet we are told in Gen. 6:2, that "they took them WIVES of all which they chose." To have a "wife" one must be "MARRIED."   The sons of God and the daughters of men are BOTH HUMAN. 
( http://bible-truths.com/email12.htm )

"...they have no marriage apparatus if you know what I mean."  Ha! See now that makes a lot of sense.

{Jerry-quote]
With the understanding that The Scriptures do say 'Angles are not given in Marriage"..maybe cause there all Masculine?
And as some would say"A statement of fact is not a statement of limitation"

Could it not be that since they were fallen that they obtained a "apparatus".?
Jesus was Immortality...And came to be man and  unless I am missing something he had a "apparatus'?
One could believe that Adam and Eve was Immortal before they partook of the forbidden fruit? since Adam said this is Bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh.And never said anything about "blood of my blood"
so just maybe just like Adam and Eve may have went from Immortal to Mortal,maybe fallen angles went to immortal to mortal with a apparatus.? ,Just a thought?

[Jerry-quote]
But to see what Scripture says is how we make our choices on what to believe not mortality.
Gen-6-4 Its obvious by context that He is talking about giants {heb-nephilim-fallen or mighty ones]in verse 1 it says ..when men{Adam] begin to multiply.
then in v-4..Why did jump from men to Giants?..There are beliefs that Angles can be good size dudes.They turned the stone away for Jesus!
Now as we read Gen-6-4-8
Gen 6:4  There were giants in the earth in those days;Gen 6:4  There wereH1961 giantsH5303 in the earthH776 in thoseH1992 days;H3117 and alsoH1571 afterH310 that,H3651 whenH834 the sonsH1121 of GodH430 came inH935 untoH413 the daughtersH1323 , and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.
Gen 6:5  And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
Gen 6:6  And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
Gen 6:7  And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.
Gen 6:8  But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.

Notice that was h430 used in verse 4!
[Jerry-quote....just maybe we could think the following?]
1.v-4 -God did say "Everthing after its own kind"And the Angles knew this .so its obvious they sinned against God!Jude 1-6..I think shows this.

Jud 1:6 Besides, messengers who keep not their own sovereignty, but leave their own habitation, He has kept in imperceptible bonds under gloom for the judging of the great day.

2.v-5-8-One could draw the conclusion that just maybe Noah Family found grace because his seed was the only ones who had not been made hybrid you know half  immortal/mortal. and why did he say he would destroy  MAN,and Beast,creeping things,birds of air?Maybe they were corrupted by the fallen angles as well... having a apparatus? Some carnality might find animals sexy?

I believe Lot knew of what God thought about this mixing seed stuff when He offered His Daughters to the the carnal people of Sodom and Gomorrah.And I believe its why God said to kill women .children and all many times in Old Testament.

In Job 38-7-Reads..

Job 38:7  When the morningH1242 starsH3556 sangH7442 together,H3162 and allH3605 the sonsH1121 of GodH430 shouted for joy

H430-our Angles...... not men?

H430
אלהים
'ĕlôhîym
el-o-heem'
Plural of H433; gods in the ordinary sense; but specifically used (in the plural thus, especially with the article) of the supreme God; occasionally applied by way of deference to magistrates; and sometimes as a superlative: - angels, X exceeding, God (gods) (-dess, -ly), X (very)

Are we to say that the Sons of Seth were with the morning stars shouting for joy?It seems to me God is speaking of something before men were around?see....v-4.

Psa 82:6  IH589 have said,H559 Ye are gods;H430 and allH3605 of youH859 are childrenH1121 of the most High.H5945

Again we have H430...Angles being referenced as children of God.then verse 7;

Psa 82:7  ButH403 ye shall dieH4191 like men,H120 and fallH5307 like oneH259 of the princes.H8269

Ray always said if Christendom taught it it probably isn't right.And I know they teach Sons of Seth.

So just my thoughts that's all.God Bless!