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=> General Discussions => Topic started by: Wanda on July 16, 2019, 10:00:45 PM
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Interestingly it seems God has been communicating with me through questions lately.
The most recent was this morning while I was busy focusing on something I was doing. The question that popped into my mind was, what warning did God give prior to the attack on the twin towers. I was like WHAT, where did that come from? It did get me thinking and I decided I would do further study later, but before that happened I had another question pop into my head. How can we know a judgement is from God?
Almost immediately after the question came I was reminded of the White Throne Judgment. Knowing that the elect are the ones being judged in this age with the rest being judged at the White Throne Judgement, is I think key to this question I've been stuck on. Isn't that why God's wrath and judgement came on the nation of Israel in the destruction of Jerusalem? The Israelites were after all God's chosen people at that time.
This didn't come out of the blue though
My question about Gods judgement and when he executes it has been at the front of my mind for awhile, due to this doctrine of unhealthy fear, that is so prevelant in churches, I know I was in one; . As well as some other questions I've had. This seems to have been the piece of understanding that's resolved all of those, questions, unless I'm wrong of course.
The Apostle Paul says that God “has fixed a day on which he will judge the world in righteousness
Acts 17:31
Romans identifies it as “the day of wrath”
Rom. 2:5
Jude calls it “the judgment of the great day”
Jude 6
1 Peter 4:17
For the time has come for judgment to begin at the house of God; and if it begins with us first, what will be the end of those who do not obey the gospel of God?
And then the judgement on the rest of mankind.
Revelation 20:11-15
In light of this how can I believe the attack on the towers on 9/11 was God's judgement on America, or any other disasters, including natural, that happen prior to the day of judgement God has set aside?
If I'm missing something of key importance, please point it out so I can resolve this. Thanks in advance.
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Isa 26:8 Yea, Jehovah, in the path of Your judgments we awaited You; for Your name and for Your memory is the desire of our soul.
Isa 26:9 With my soul I desire You in the night; yea, with my spirit within me I diligently seek You. For when Your judgments are in the earth, those living in the world learn righteousness.
Isa 26:10 The wicked finds favor; he does not learn righteousness; he deals perversely in the land of honesty, and does not see the majesty of Jehovah.
There's a lot to digest in just those three verses, much less the entire chapter. Any one of them can send us on a bible-study of epic proportions--once we might begin to think "not topically", but spiritually. My short answer is simply this: Did the inhabitants of the world (or even of the US) learn righteousness? If not, then the promise of "righteous judgement" has not been fulfilled in those living in the world.
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Yes. Some did. Some did not.
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No, its quiet obvious those in the world have not learned righteousness at this point in time.
Romans 2:5
5 But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God’s wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed
A future judgement for each one for his own works, at the White Throne Judgement. He judges in righteousness to teach righteousness, otherwise nothing constructive would be accomplished, by killing people, like in the event with the twin towers on 9/11.or with natural disasters, or even with an end time apocalyptic slaughter.
In Romans 1, Paul makes it pretty clear that in this age God has given mankind over to his own depravity until our Lord returns. I wouldn't expect any less from a just, righteous and loving God.
Romans 1
28 Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done.29 They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30 slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31 they have no understanding, no fidelity, no love, no mercy. 32 Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.
Thanks Dave. I'll do a study on the scriptures you shared.
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Another ever present question I have, why do people love their God of wrath and destruction so much, they'll run from truth that speaks to the love of God?
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Another ever present question I have, why do people love their God of wrath and destruction so much, they'll run from truth that speaks to the love of God?
I’ve encountered mostly the opposite.
Maybe it’s human nature for us to gravitate towards the extremes when we are in groups such as churches and ideologies.
Sounds like you’ve experienced mostly people on one end of the spectrum. The “wrath and punishment” side of the spectrum. I’ve experienced mostly people on the opposite side of the spectrum. The “God is love and whatever you do is forgiven no matter what-and God accepts you just as you are” side.
And both sides “love” their god because they (we) believe that God is on their (our) side.
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Another ever present question I have, why do people love their God of wrath and destruction so much, they'll run from truth that speaks to the love of God?
I’ve encountered mostly the opposite.
Maybe it’s human nature for us to gravitate towards the extremes when we are in groups such as churches and ideologies.
Sounds like you’ve experienced mostly people on one end of the spectrum. The “wrath and punishment” side of the spectrum. I’ve experienced mostly people on the opposite side of the spectrum. The “God is love and whatever you do is forgiven no matter what-and God accepts you just as you are” side.
And both sides “love” their god because they (we) believe that God is on their (our) side.
I was speaking in generalities and from past experiences mostly, but have encountered this even with people here among us on this forum. I've personally never met anyone that didn't believe God was going to kill, or torture the unbelievers and some believing even the earth itself must be burned with fire to cleanse it. Even those who believe God loves us in spite of our sinfullness, hold on to some form of end time, or after death impending doom.
I take it you've never met a die hard hellfire believer. They will defend that doctrine as if their very life depends on it. I know it's out of fear mostly. That's why I think it's so important to emphasize the true love of our creator, whenever we can, especially on this forum, where others read our comments.
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Well said Wanda and helpful for understanding.
When people are deceived by false understanding then by definition they do not know that they are believing error and deceived...unless and until God opens their mind to seek truth and gain true understanding. Even then there is the temptation to assume that they figured it out for themselves. That is why it takes many years to attain spiritual maturity.
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For anyone not familiar with this subject on the judgement God has set aside for a future time.
Excerpt -
LOF III - GOD'S TWO AREAS AND ERAS OF JUDGMENT
https://bible-truths.com/lake3.html
And are these non-believers judged differently from believers who are "revealed, tried, salted and baptized IN FIRE?" Just HOW are these non-believers judged in the book of Revelation? How are the "...fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars..." JUDGED? Answer: "...In the lake WHICH BURNS WITH FIRE..." (Rev. 21:8)!
Is this "fire" in the book of Revelation DIFFERENT from the fire that tries the works of believers in the book of I Corinthians? NO. The word "fire" used in the four examples above concerning believers, is the SAME word "fire" used in the book of Revelation concerning non-believers:
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I thought it might be helpful to share my own experience with God's corrective judgement in my life, as an example.
There are days, and moments when I'm blessed with his spirit to the point the joy of it reduces me to weeping. It is those times, I have more compassion and love for those not given this merciful gift, as well as being fortified in his strength to push on in overcoming. Unfortunately this is not something that fills me all the time, because there is always something more that needs correction and humbling.
It reminds me of a drug addicts first experience getting high. That feeling of euphoria they first experience, that keeps them coming back for more, but unlike a drug that isn't capable of giving that euphoric feeling for any extended time, God's spirit can and does. I keep coming back for more and more, because those times between correction are so blissful I can't resist the desire to have the experience over and over.
The more of my carnal mind is burned away the more I experience his spirit within me. Is this not the most loving and constructive way to instill in us a desire to change? It encourages me to want to change, and please my heavenly father, more than satisfying my own sinfull lusts Nothing has ever been more effective at making me hate my sins. I couldn't do this on my own, without his working in me to correct these destructive desires. There's nothing worse to me than falling short of what God desires of me. It seems I'm always repenting for something.
This is the God of love I've come to know. I guess you could call me a God junkie ;)
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Very well stated Wanda,
It is a confirmation that God never tires of working with you/us.
Plus a reassurance that God never will...
Our salvation is all in God's capable hands.
So we have no need or reason to worry about it all. :)
Thank you for caring and sharing, Bob
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Very well stated Wanda,
It is a confirmation that God never tires of working with you/us.
Plus a reassurance that God never will...
Our salvation is all in God's capable hands.
So we have no need or reason to worry about it all. :)
Thank you for caring and sharing, Bob
Thank you Bob. I was a little concerned it might be offensive to some.
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Jude 1:24-25
Now unto Him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless
before the presence of His glory with exceeding joy, to the only wise God Our
Saviour through Jesus Christ Our Lord be Glory, and Majesty,Dominion and Power,
both now and ever.Amen
Great is the Lord and most worthy of praise.
In Christ, Pamela ❤️
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Hebrews 12:1-2
12 Therefore, since we are surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses, let us throw off everything that hinders and the sin that so easily entangles. And let us run with perseverance the race marked out for us, 2 fixing our eyes on Jesus, the pioneer and perfecter of faith. For the joy set before him he endured the cross, scorning its shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.
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Thank you Wanda for your testimony! So true!
The judgement we go throught goes way beyond simple corrections from time to time, it’s never « intersected » with moments of joy between moments of deep sadeness. This sadeness, as we live in a carnal mind and body, is always always there walking along with pure and profound love for God and the desire to please Him - makes me think of Jesus when He felt pity for the crowd that followed Him for He had this Will, God’s Will, to cure them- the source of joy is rightly that love you feel for God despite your own self. Yes, this love is not our own self-made love, God put it Inside us, we’re nothing (and too much things), we’re useless, God is Everything, Jesus is the One and Only way to conquer.
And even our accomplishments shouldn’t be considered as our own, Our Father gives us strenght and faith for it. We’re nothing. Nothing but children. We
must learn and grow up. It demands time, a lot of time, all our lives for say.
No acception, for nobody, we are all on the same level playing field. We are all judged exactly the same way. The elects judgement merely comes before the White Throne Judgment, that’s all. That’s Nothing. For the sufferance will come the same way for everybody, me, you, Hitler, the Hitler Inside of me and you.And the joy too.
Do we think we have the knowledge to see the signs of it all? Then we don’t have any knowledge. Do we think we are blessed for sure by God ? Then we may not be for sure. Do any of us think to know better ? Then he’ll be the last among the last ones.
God’s thoughts are not and absolutly not our thoughts. We live on earth, we are carnal, we do not live in facts in our resurrected spiritual bodies, we’ll probably for the lot of us die before the work of God in ourselves is accomplished. We can’t be sure for now of how profound and large and deep is God’s Love. We don’t merely have the Equipment for that. We must hang on to humility, and fear and faith. We must remember.
Remembering our fails, and remembering God’s promise of success. David reminds it in psalms.
I’m saying this while at this very moment I just wish to die physically for I am crossing (like all of you I HOPE) a real hard time, not the world’s like but
the one that can’t keep you from rejoicing and loving God more and more while crying your soul out For it is really really hard to let go of our false beliefs,
you know, the ones we are sure they’re not as bad as it is and we don‘t even think about it or question it, and in the same time, exactly the same time letting go of it all. How schizophrenic ! Longing to be finally one in Jesus as God is one.
Because , for now, we are the false prophets, and the earth trembling down and the signs in the sky and the jews Killing Jesus on the cross and the pitiful crowd and Jesus disciples and the thiefs and the liars and the 144000 and so on. You ken that most of liars don’t even realize they lie.
And God knows how hard it is to manage our lives and love and faith with all this. Miserable men we are as Paul said in Romans.
Thank You soo much Jesus. Thank You Thank You Thank You.
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Thank you Michele, for your heartfelt words, very inspiring.
It's in our darkest most difficult moments we should draw even closer to our loving Father. It's only by his giving us the strength to hold up under the weight of these heavy burdens that we can endure and overcome. I think of Jesus going off into the mountains to be alone with him, how else would he have ever been able to endure the tremendous and overwhelming expectations so many placed on him, without his Fathers filling him with renewed strength and the hope before him.
Most of his life Jesus only Relied on him in all things. We of course have to be taught through our trials to do this, by his Spirit, nudging us along bit by bit until it is something we fully grasp, as being absolutely essential to our spiritual growth and our peace of mind. I have come to even consider this is why many of us live lives of solitude. I once was very sociable and not the least happy, when to long a span of time passed before I was doing something that was engaging with others, but now I am content to be alone with God, it's all I seem to need or want.
If you're put in a position that really does separate you, both physically and mentally from the world it can make you want to turn to God when you need emotional support, rather than turning to anyone else, who in all honesty cannot give what only he can give.
I didn't mean to give the impression that God removes his spirit from us, it is we, who when doing what we know is not pleasing to him, that pull away. He tells us he draws near to those who draw near to him, and that is a truth we can all have faith in. As you stated, It's the influence of our past false teaching that we have to overcome, before we can truly be overcomers. It's those lies that make some of us feel unworthy to turn to God when we sin, but in fact, Our Father is wanting and expecting us to turn to him more at those times so he can help us overcome them. He created us to sin and he's here to love us through to the end, no matter how long it takes.
I don't know what you're dealing with Michele, but I will pray God fortifies you with all you need to endure. I'm going through a difficult trial myself and if it weren't for God helping me, it might be the very thing that finally breaks me.
Praise his holy name. I owe my my all to him.
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Thank you both Michelle and Wanda, I can certainly feel and have also experienced this heartfelt joy that only comes when near to God. I feel physically ill if I have not spent time in His word, on the forum or reading and rereading Ray's papers. There is a joy to be found that nothing in this world can offer and it is the joy of the Lord. The more I learn the more I am humbled and quite often will say our loud "oh what a wretched man I am" The judgment by fire is real and boy does it hurt, but onwards and upwards. The fear of missing out keeps me going. How can anything else in life matter more?
Wanda, I have also become very reclusive because I just want to spend time with my Saviour, I can no longer be part of this worlds thinking and view points and consider it all loss so that I can gain Christ! My heart rejoices in the unity we all seem to experience and the love for God and the desire to move forward and to obtain the end goal. May God grant us His mercy and grace to do it and not to grow weary. I love my fellow brothers and sisters in Christ although I have never met you, I know you.
Heidi
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It's only by night that we can see the light. The city on the mountain is visible by night for that's the only thing gleaming in the darkness. By full day, we can't notice its full splendor, just a tiny glimpse of it. Darkness, Night, Obscurity… we can only see it when you're alive in Christ. Dead people Don't know they're dead. They don't know they're walking in the darkness. So the more I suffer for realizing I walk in the valley of darkness, the more I rejoice for seeing the light of Jesus guiding me throught it. We need to see the night surrounding us to see the light. Like Lightning, flash of pain illuminating the splendor and holiness of Our God. Lightning strikes that fill us with repentance, pain, hate for this world, love for Our Father in Jesus, joy, hope.
Solomon says that God dwells in a dark cloud (2 Chronicles 6:1).
2 Corinthians 2:10: "That is why, for Christ’s sake, I delight in weaknesses, in insults, in hardships, in persecutions, in difficulties. FOR WHEN I AM WEAK, THEN I AM STRONG."
Psalm 97 1-4: "The Lord reigns, let the earth be glad;let the distant shores rejoice. CLOUDS AND THICK DARKNESS SURROUND HIM;righteousness and justice are the foundation of his throne. Fire goes before him and consumes his foes on every side. HIS LIGHTNING LIGHTS UP the world;the earth SEES and trembles. The hills melted like wax at the presence of the Lord, at the presence of the Lord of the whole earth.The heavens declare his righteousness, and all the people SEE his glory. Confounded be all they that serve graven images, that boast themselves of idols: worship him, all ye gods.
Zion heard, and was GLAD; and the daughters of Judah REJOICED BECAUSE OF THY JUDGMENTS, O Lord. For thou, Lord, art high above all the earth: thou art exalted far above all gods. Ye that love the Lord, hate evil: he preserveth the souls of his saints; he delivereth them out of the hand of the wicked. LIGHT is sown for the righteous, and GLADNESS for the upright in heart. REJOICE in the Lord, ye righteous; and give thanks AT THE REMEMBRANCE of his holiness."
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Hi Prune,
Thank you for sharing this, I was overcome with joy and understanding that it IS in the darkness of this present age of this world that our light shines out.
Heidi
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We were also once walking in this darknes, being dead but not knowing we were dead. Until the wonderful light of Christ shined into our hearts.
Ephesians 2:1-3
1As for you, you were dead in your trespasses and sins, 2in which you used to walk when you conformed to the ways of this world and of the ruler of the power of the air, the spirit who is now at work in the sons of disobedience. 3At one time we all lived among them, fulfilling the cravings of our flesh and indulging its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature children of wrath.
Heidi
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I have spent a lot of time - a lot of useless time - supposing how things could have been different in my life or the lives of my children . I’ll day dream and get caught up in a fantasy land of the turn I took or didn’t take, the decisions I made I wish I could take back, the words I wish I could take back. It’s taken a long time for me to stop myself and say ,” Stop trying to second guess God! Stop arguing with Him over the darkness and head into the light ! Ask forgiveness when needed and go on ! This for me is God’s judgements now in this life .
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Ray said that, by the Grace of God, we know Something that dead people can't know. This secret that is Christ in us:
"I know what it is to be in need, and I know what it is to have plenty. I HAVE LEARNED the secret of being content in any and every situation, whether well fed or hungry, whether living in plenty or in want."(Philippians 4:12)
"The glorious riches of this mystery, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory." (Colossians 1:27)
It helps us Walking in the vissicitudes of this present life of apprenticeship. We have to accept Walking on the narrow way, in the heart of the earth, in the darkness, as hard as it is, we have this secret, this hope in our hearts. Because we beg for wisdom and love and holiness, even though we remain bogged down in a tortuous world.
"Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you." (Matt 7:7) We know and Believe this Word of God.
"And my God will meet all your needs according to the riches of his glory in Christ Jesus." (Philippians 4:19)
So we keep on Walking in the darkness, but guided by Christ, our Light, our life, our Lord, our Love. Wishing to be alone with Him, no one around to separate us from Him. But are we not to testify to the same tortuous world about the depth and the width of God's Love? It makes me think of Paul in Philippians 1:"19 for I know that through your prayers and God’s provision of the Spirit of Jesus Christ what has happened to me will turn out for my deliverance. 20 I eagerly expect and hope that I will in no way be ashamed, but will have sufficient courage so that now as always Christ will be exalted in my body, whether by life or by death. 21 For to me, to live is Christ and to die is gain. 22 If I am to go on living in the body, this will mean fruitful labor for me. Yet what shall I choose? I do not know! 23 I am torn between the two: I desire to depart and be with Christ, which is better by far; 24 but it is more necessary for you that I remain in the body. 25 Convinced of this, I know that I will remain, and I will continue with all of you for your progress and joy in the faith, 26 so that through my being with you again your boasting in Christ Jesus will abound on account of me."
Romans 7:13"in order that sin might be recognized as sin, it used what is good to bring about my death, so that through the commandment sin might become UTTERLY sinful." And right before this Paul says in Romans 7:9 "when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died." We learn. We grow up in spirit in the middle of the night.
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In John 8:12 we read, "When Jesus spoke again to the people, he said, "I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life."
I believe that we used to walk in darkness, but no more because we now have the light of life. Darkness stops for us, those who are in Christ.
Heidi
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We wouldn't need a light if we were not surrounded by the darkness of this world, we would know in advance and see all the obstacles that await us on our way.
The difference is that we Don't belong no more to this darkness, we belong to Our Father of Light. We Don't want to hide in this darkness, we want to be revealed in Christ.
My eyes are opened for God allows me by His Grace to keep on Learning about His Love for all of us. But I still can't uncover all the shadows that remain about the future, about my true self as God's child, I Don't have this certainty to walk in a total full Light, for my heart yet darkens a big part of those truths. The race is not finished, I have this feeling I am really far from its end.
But I want to feel and realize every step of the processing if it can help others around me to question and Wonder about my God and Father. Like: "How come she smiles when I would cry out loud and give up if I was in her position?". Like Job's wife couseling him to give up his faith rather than keep on glorifying God. Who do I want to please?
God be gloryfied, whatever happens. Because what's important is not what is happening to me but how I react to the bad and even the good circumstances. Humility, Patience, Love...sometimes I miss it completely and panic on board of my small boat, or I sometimes almost go short of swellin of pride for knowing so little about God's Plan.
Jesus is hope, this Light is hope, because even though we Don't how we can keep on Walking, as by God's Grace our feet are "fitted with the readiness that comes from the gospel of peace" (Ephesians 6;15), we know for sure how the Journey will end: God will be all in all, and this enlighten the darkest nights in which from time to time my heart can be tempted to plunge. I Don't want to fall asleep, anyway, if possible, I couldn't, because the light of Jesus dazzles me, illuminates the night around me, then changes me entirely, no point of return, by God's Grace and God's omnipotence. He keeps on saving us. Amen.
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I agree with:
Re: Judgement In This Age?
« Reply #23 on: Today at 09:25:09 PM »
ReplyQuote
We wouldn't need a light if we were not surrounded by the darkness of this world, we would know in advance and see all the obstacles that await us on our way.
The difference is that we Don't belong no more to this darkness, we belong to Our Father of Light. We Don't want to hide in this darkness, we want to be revealed in Christ
Although we are still in this world we are not part of this world.
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Habakkuk's prayer in chap 3:
"God came from Teman,
the Holy One from Mount Paran.
His glory covered the heavens
and his praise filled the earth.
4
His splendor was like the SUNRISE;
RAYS FLASHED from his hand,
where his power was hidden.
5
Plague went before him;
pestilence followed his steps.
6
He stood, and shook the earth;
he looked, and made the nations tremble.
The ancient mountains crumbled
and the age-old hills collapsed—
but he marches on forever."
Beautiful!
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2Co.4:6
For God who said” let light shine out of darkness has shone in our hearts to
give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.
Gen.1:3
And God said. Let there be light” and there was light”
Gen.1: 4
And God saw that the light was good, and God separated the light
from the darkness.
Matt.4:16
The people dwelling in darkness have seen a great light, and for those dwelling in the region
and shadow of death, on them a light has dawned.
Matt 4:17
From that time Jesus began to preach saying” repent for the kingdom of heaven (s)
is at hand.
Matt 4:19
and He said to them” follow me and I will make you fishers of men.
Matt. 4:20
Immediately they left their nets and followed Him.
Jesus is our shining , bright, brilliant light in this cold dark world.
They Kingdom Come, Thy Will BE DONE. AMEN
In Christ, Pamela,,,,, Love to all ❤️
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And if we pay close attention to all the words, then we can realize how loudly His Light shines. It comforts, and strenghtens, and gladdens. That's what I understand when God invites us to rejoice all the time. It's not about being a smiling clown in the street, like false believers do.
It's about understanding, by grace, the infinite richness of His Word, finding in it the light that will guide us in every step of our lives in Christ. Finding the treasure in it, we bury it deep into our hearts. "For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also."(Matt 6:21) and "what comes out of the mouth proceeds from the heart" (Matt 15:18). In Isaiah 55:11 God says "so is my word that goes out from my mouth: It will not return to me empty, but will accomplish what I desire and achieve the purpose for which I sent it." May we all accomplish God's desire by the light of His Word, as Lights of this darken world that's getting darker each day. May we glorify Our Father in Christ being lamps put on their stands. "For whatever is hidden is meant to be disclosed, and whatever is concealed is meant to be brought out into the open." (Mark 4:22)
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By the way, I was thinking about this: you, all the contributors on this forum, you are a real testimony of God's Grace in those dark times. because I am a baby, I know the true God for only four years. But I can see lots of you knowing Him since a real long time, and still you show the deepest love for Our Father in Christ, rock steady you are! How encouraging this steadiness, how reassuring.
Wanda, I go back to your first question for this thread: How do we know a judgement is from God?
May I dare to give you my proper thought about it ?
I would say: when, in the middle of the storm, you have a strong feeling of being safe despite the danger. You can utterly suffer, but this insurance that everything will come to an end, everything will be fine remains, almost naturally (almost, for it's a grace of God).
Jesus sleeps calmly in the middle of the storm. And somehow, you all do the same, I can see it. You are the letter, the testimony that helps me keeping my eyes opened. You are the light that prevents me from falling on obstacles. I read testimonies of the deepest of sufferings, pains, fears. But still, the love for Jesus is never denied and confidence in His love remains. You all are this one prophecy, the kingdom of God, and it elevates me.
How do we know a judgement is from God? Maybe because we can learn from it? Learn righteousness, not vengeance. Learn to love, not to mock. And boy I learn a lot with you all BT family members!
How do we know a judgement is from God? When suddenly in the middle of the blackest night we are able to see the sun raising, shining warming, and be thankful to God about it, about the warmth and the light but also admitting that without the blackest night(without the judgement..) AND by the grace of Our Father we wouldn't have realize/learn anything. God is indeed gloryfied here.
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Prune, God has blessed you with beautiful poetic wordplay. Reading your post made the hair on my arms stand up.
"How do we know a judgement is from God? When suddenly in the middle of the blackest night we are able to see the sun raising, shining warming, and be thankful to God about it"
Heidi
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Thank you Heidi.
English is not my mother language, but "God, who set me apart from my mother’s womb and called me by his grace to reveal his Son in me" (Gal 1:15-16) created all the circumstances so that I can communicate with you all. Talking a foreign language forces me to pay attention to the words in order not to say things people could miscomprehend. I feel like Balaam's donkey (Numberds 22:21-39) whose ability to talk was only given by God. True.
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I have spent a lot of time - a lot of useless time - supposing how things could have been different in my life or the lives of my children . I’ll day dream and get caught up in a fantasy land of the turn I took or didn’t take, the decisions I made I wish I could take back, the words I wish I could take back. It’s taken a long time for me to stop myself and say ,” Stop trying to second guess God! Stop arguing with Him over the darkness and head into the light ! Ask forgiveness when needed and go on ! This for me is God’s judgements now in this life .
Octoberose -
Your comment made me think of the deciples who denied and even abandoned Jesus in his hour of need. I cannot fathom the regrets they must have suffered as a result.
An important point, none of these men could have done anything different in this situation, because it was God's will they deny the son so prophecy would be fullfield. Each one of us are taking the exact path God has willed in our lives, therefore, it is as Octoberose said, a waste of time spent on regret, when we can simply ask for forgiveness and move on, closer to the light, where our hope and promise resides.
In Matt 18:21-22 Peter asked "Lord, how many times is my brother to sin against me and I am to forgive him? Up to 7 times? Peter probably thought he was being generous, because the religious leaders were teaching forgiveness only 3 times. Jesus told Peter, . Not only 7 times, but 77 times. Love does not keep track of, or arbitrarily set a limit to how many times we can be forgiven. We are forgiven as many times is necessary to overcome.
If Peter didn't understand the point Jesus was making at the time, I'm sure he did after his own experience with being forgiven, just as we can understand when we ourselves are forgiven for any number of transgressions. God's love upon us will move us to repentence .
As scripture tells us, keep loving one another earnestly, since love covers a multitude of sins. 1 Peter 4:8 Earnestly means with sincere and intense conviction, so it's not some kind of wishy washy love, that we often see displayed in the world , but the kind that's real and has deep meaning and purpose. The kind of love that overcomes, and the more we overcome the more the light grows within us, until it illuminates our path. A path that leads us ever closer to the God of love who is the true light of the world. We were lost but now we are found. May we all continue to shine brighter and brighter with the light of his love within us. Amen!
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When my son was about seven years old, he and his buddy got into a strangers tractor
to go for a ride. He knew he was not allowed to do such things ( talking to strangers)but to little boys it was too tempting to say no. He felt guilt afterward and told me about it and I kinda
let him off the hook for at least telling me but assured him he would get a trimmin, (that’s
Newfoundland for spanking ) later on . Three days later ,,Matthew stuck his head in around the
the door of the kitchen and said “ mom, i’m ready for my trimmin”. I was hoping he had
forgotten about it but I had to go through with it. Sigh 😔. Anyway , with tears in my eyes , I
put him over my knee and smacked him three times on the bum. He jumped up and said “ ok
mom, I won’t do that again”, and he didn’t.Then he ran out to play, as happy as a Lark. I now know when I need a trimmin .
Ok Lord, I won’t do that again and afterward I go outside and play in my garden.
In Christ, Pamela
I love all of you very much.💕
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By the way, I was thinking about this: you, all the contributors on this forum, you are a real testimony of God's Grace in those dark times. because I am a baby, I know the true God for only four years. But I can see lots of you knowing Him since a real long time, and still you show the deepest love for Our Father in Christ, rock steady you are! How encouraging this steadiness, how reassuring.
Wanda, I go back to your first question for this thread: How do we know a judgement is from God?
May I dare to give you my proper thought about it ?
I would say: when, in the middle of the storm, you have a strong feeling of being safe despite the danger. You can utterly suffer, but this insurance that everything will come to an end, everything will be fine remains, almost naturally (almost, for it's a grace of God).
Jesus sleeps calmly in the middle of the storm. And somehow, you all do the same, I can see it. You are the letter, the testimony that helps me keeping my eyes opened. You are the light that prevents me from falling on obstacles. I read testimonies of the deepest of sufferings, pains, fears. But still, the love for Jesus is never denied and confidence in His love remains. You all are this one prophecy, the kingdom of God, and it elevates me.
How do we know a judgement is from God? Maybe because we can learn from it? Learn righteousness, not vengeance. Learn to love, not to mock. And boy I learn a lot with you all BT family members!
How do we know a judgement is from God? When suddenly in the middle of the blackest night we are able to see the sun raising, shining warming, and be thankful to God about it, about the warmth and the light but also admitting that without the blackest night(without the judgement..) AND by the grace of Our Father we wouldn't have realize/learn anything. God is indeed gloryfied here.
Very well said Michele ☺
I have personally experienced that sense of calm in the middle of one of lifes storms. I love all of your proper thoughts dear sister ❤
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When my son was about seven years old, he and his buddy got into a strangers tractor
to go for a ride. He knew he was not allowed to do such things ( talking to strangers)but to little boys it was too tempting to say no. He felt guilt afterward and told me about it and I kinda
let him off the hook for at least telling me but assured him he would get a trimmin, (that’s
Newfoundland for spanking ) later on . Three days later ,,Matthew stuck his head in around the
the door of the kitchen and said “ mom, i’m ready for my trimmin”. I was hoping he had
forgotten about it but I had to go through with it. Sigh 😔. Anyway , with tears in my eyes , I
put him over my knee and smacked him three times on the bum. He jumped up and said “ ok
mom, I won’t do that again”, and he didn’t.Then he ran out to play, as happy as a Lark. I now know when I need a trimmin .
Ok Lord, I won’t do that again and afterward I go outside and play in my garden.
In Christ, Pamela
I love all of you very much.💕
Awww that's such a sweet story and I can understand your tearing up having to follow through with giving your little guy his trimmin.
Love you sis 💕
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I often think about those very things. After over 40 years inside the Whore of Babylon, and coming out only within the last five years, I can now "see" the beast within me. It has been frightening yet liberating. The elect have the awesome privilege to allow the Father to purge the dross off those precious metals, AND burn that wood, hay, and stubble. It's painful but necessary.
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Hello Stephan
Glad to hear you came out of Babylon. You said” the Elect have the awesome privilege to
ALLOW the Father to purge them.”
To me
This word ALLOW denies God’s Sovereignty. God is the Potter, we are the clay.
Phil. 2:13
For it is God which works in you , both to will and to do of His good pleasure.
John 15:16
You have not chosen me but I have chosen you.
I think we should get away from using that word allow.
Anyone else have a thought about this?
In Christ
Pamela.
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Only God Our father ALLOWS things as you reminded it so rightfully Pamela (Philippians 2 :13) .
I agree with you Stephan, it’s painfull but less painfull when you know « that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose » (Romans 8 :28).
God’s thoughts are not our thoughts and I think that’s the most Paramount part of the judgement : accept that what we desire, even unconsciously, doesn’t correspond to what God desires. Never.
Why is it fisrt the elects that are being judged rather than everyone altogether ? Because God’s House has been taught the Truth first, by the great power of His Spirit, throught Jesus Christ, so that it can be a testimony for the world to see, people around us, family, neighbours, people we cross in the street, we come throught shamefull moments, hard times which people around us can assist to, whistling, feeling ashamed for us, or sad maybe. But they ALSO see us HAPPY, CONFIDENT. It’s only at these moments that the Glory of God is revealed. That’s why, don’t be ashamed or sad of being judged, which is being a human that’s becoming a child of God in all His holiness, it’s hard but let it be known throught joy and faith for the future of your neighbour, your daughter and son, your colleague... for it will help them to change and access to repentance in a more easier way later.
Our minister : being a real shame in the eyes of the world for later they will remember we trusted in Our God to save us from these tricky circumstances and it will help them to change completely and accept their heart to be replaced by God LATER.
We don’t want people to suffer, to be ill, to die, for God doesn’t want it FIRSTLY. We want them to live in Christ the way we are living now.
Being changed, the process of having a new heart and spirit (Ezekiel 11 :19-20), is the only way for us to serve God’s marvellous plan : people sees, and feels, and remembers. Let’s not hide our suffering. BUT what would really weigh in the balance is JOY. What is important for our testimony is to rejoice in our sufferings, and not fearing anything, and thank only GOD for EVERYTHING, that is FAITH.
That’s the only way for people to learn : JOY in our sufferings. Pain is not enough. Rejoicing, which is faith, while suffering is the key. But we don’t have to pretend, we only have to count on God’s word, meditating on it, remember it at all times, knowing now the Truth of HIS WORD. Matthew 6 : 16 : « When you fast, do not look somber ».
God sends us to people according to His perfect plan, we meet them because God wills us to meet them, so later they will remember. That’s why it’s so important to be attached to Christ, so we can act and talk exactly the way God
wants us to,
like Jesus who tells us in John 12 :49 « For I did not speak on my own, but the Father who sent me commanded to say all that I have Spoken ».
Anyway, accept yourself, even with flaws of your own, we all have flaws, we all are ashamed of so many things about us when we face God’s Holiness.
But God has already forgiven us throught Jesus' sacrifice on the cross IF we follow His most important commandment which is LOVE.
Accept yourselves. Accept it when you try to be better in the eyes of our Father but you can't succeed, try later, try hard.
God is WORKING on us, and throught us He is working on people around us. We are His INSTRUMENT for His Glory. We are the horns, we are the lyres, God plays His own marvellous symphony throught us.
We already know His Glory, let the world hear and learn about it, according to the schedule and circumstances God has decided throught our lives in Christ.
We don’t run the ship, God does, throught Christ in us. God be GLORIFIED, in absolutly every circumstances.
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Pamela:
Ray never liked that word "allow", and neither do I. God is the great cause of everything, either directly OR indirectly.
Dean
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How well (and circumcised) said Dean! I'm a journalist and never been able to summarize things, not brilliant enough, (or maybe just an "emotionalizish" woman ;))
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Amen Prune, Dean and all brothers and sisters in Christ. All Glory to our God.
Prune , your words are lovely ❤️ and reflect the light of the love of the Lord.
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"Prune , your words are lovely ❤️ and reflect the light of the love of the Lord."
It's the proof that "with God, All Things are Possible" (Matthew 19:26) ;)
Just like you said : All Glory to our God.
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I appreciate all the feedback. It's hard to break old habits and using the word "allow" is one of them. Please be patient with me. I've dug deep ruts in my spiritual journey and only HE will redirect my path.
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I appreciate all the feedback. It's hard to break old habits and using the word "allow" is one of them. Please be patient with me. I've dug deep ruts in my spiritual journey and only HE will redirect my path.
God bless Stephan. There is not one among us that is not trying to overcome something, whether it be old doctrinal beliefs or sinfull weaknesses. It's by his grace and mercy alone that we will overcome.
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2 Corinthians 13:14
The Grace of the Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God
and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all.
Amen Stephen, yes,only He is directing your steps. God Bless you on your journey and indeed
all of God’s children as we learn and grow together in the Lord.
Love in Christ, Pamela
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Thank you Pamela and Wanda.
After 40 years of wilderness wandering it is certainly good to be back on the right path.