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=> General Discussions => Topic started by: Rene on August 11, 2011, 11:44:25 AM
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John 15:12 - "This is My commandment, that you love one another, just as I have loved you."
I have been thinking a lot about this commandment lately. I found at least 12 scriptures (see below) that have this commandment. Jesus, Paul, Peter, and John all said it. This leads me to two conclusions, (1) this commandment is VERY IMPORTANT; and (2) this commandment must be VERY HARD for us to keep! :D
Here are 12 places this commandment is mentioned:
John 13:34 1Thes 4:9 1John 4:7
John 15:12 1Peter 1:22 1John 4:11
John 15:17 1John 3:11 1John 4:12
Rom 13:8 1John 3:23 2John 1:5
What do you all think? Is it hard to love one another? Keep in mind, I am not talking about some "fake" lovey-dovey, pretentious manifestation of love.
René
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Yes, very hard and you become hated as well because of it.
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Hi Rene,
Good point (love) that we need to focus on. This scripture came to mind.
Luke 6:32 "If you love only the people who love you, why should you receive a blessing? Even sinners love those who love them!
v. 33 And if you do good only to those who do good to you, why should you receive a blessing? Even sinners do that!
v. 34 And if you lend only to those from whom you hope to get it back, why should you receive a blessing? Even sinners lend to sinners, to get back the same amount!
v. 35 No! Love your enemies and do good to them; lend and expect nothing back. You will then have a great reward, and you will be children of the Most High God. For he is good to the ungrateful and the wicked.
I can understand this, it's easy to love people that you have a good relationship with. But those people that you may have some kind of conflict with or sometimes people are just not easily approachable, now that's a different story. You know it's easy to love someone who you have a reciprocating relationship of give and take with.
So what about all those people that we might find a good reason to love? I think with the Spirit indwelling we should be compelled to seek to deal in a good and positive manner with those we would naturally want to avoid. If we are truly in training to judge the world then we should want to learn how to 'love' everyone to matter how difficult they are. That is something I want to work towards, moving outside of my comfort zone and reaching out to people that I would not normally want to.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
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One other point, all love isn't the same love. There are different kinds of love...love for your family, love for your friends, love for your co-workers, etc. We're not going to love all of these people in the same manner. I think the main thing is to not wish or want evil upon any of them...especially more so the ones you love less than others.
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Good point Marques. Here is a email that I found that makes this point as well.
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php?topic=3400.0 --------------
We are to "love/agapeo" our enemies, meaning that we are to desire for them to come into a knowledge of the truth and to bitterly REPENT of their INDIGNITY to other humans. We are not to "love/phileo" them with emotional love, fondness, hugs and kisses!
God be with you,
Ray
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All good points, but the love I am specifically talking about (that I feel Jesus and the Apostles are talking about in the scriptures I listed), is specifically instructing the "Body of Christ", to love one another. I'm focusing more on the love that we like-minded believers should have toward one another, not the agape love we should have for all of mankind.
Is it hard for us like-minded believers to love one another? Does the lack of physical contact and our inability to see one another on a regular basis get in the way of our loving one another? Or should that even matter? Or maybe it's not a problem for us and we all have the love that Jesus commanded us to have for one another. :-\ Just asking. :D
Ray's bible study on "Love" (http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3719.0.html) covers the difference in agape and phileo love. It's an excellent lesson to review as well.
René
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1Pe 1:22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:
UNFEIGNED love. You can't feign unfeigned love any more than you can draw a square circle. This puts the 'love one another' commandment even deeper into the spirit. Just as it's a struggle to enter rest, it's a struggle to learn to love one another. Is it hard? It's hard to get there, I think.
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One thing that comes to mind is the attitudes of some of us to homosexuals.
When I migrated to the US from Jamaica (a very homophobic society) in the nineties, I was initially very hostile towards them.
While I worked at a hotel in Washington DC, I met two co-workers who were of that lifestyle. In getting to know them and by hearing their stories, I gradually became more tolerant and came to realize that homosexuals are God's children too.
I believe that we are expected to love the homosexual even though we may hate the act itself.
On another note, some of the hardest people to love are our relatives:)
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All good points, but the love I am specifically talking about (that I feel Jesus and the Apostles are talking about in the scriptures I listed), is specifically instructing the "Body of Christ", to love one another. I'm focusing more on the love that we like-minded believers should have toward one another, not the agape love we should have for all of mankind.
Is it hard for us like-minded believers to love one another? Does the lack of physical contact and our inability to see one another on a regular basis get in the way of our loving one another? Or should that even matter? Or maybe it's not a problem for us and we all have the love that Jesus commanded us to have for one another. :-\ Just asking. :D
Ray's bible study on "Love" (http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3719.0.html) covers the difference in agape and phileo love. It's an excellent lesson to review as well.
René
Sometimes it's easier getting along with people in the world compared to believers. When such a small community as we have possesses something as valuable as the Truth, pride & vanity will surely set in. None of us can be told anything because we all 'have the Spirit'. This is part of the baggage from Babylon that none of us has really let go: the vanity from believing that we are one of God's favorites. After all these years, I still don't know how to not let pride set in with the longing to be one of God's Elect. I swell with pride when my earthly father tells me he's proud of me...how much more our Father in Heaven?
More times than not, people in the world are less confrontational and dogmatic about who they are and what they believe. They care less about 'being right' and more about living life how they want to live. Not saying I endorse it, but that's just how it seems to me.
Marques
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Okay, so if we're just talking about loving 'the bretheren' than my thought is, isn't there a process (just like in any relationship) where you get to know someone and then at some point it becomes apparent that they are of the bretheren, and then you come to phileo/love them? Or am I being completely carnal in my thinking? The reason I ask this is because in my experience of the past several years, it seems like other self proclaimed Christians expect me to wrap my arms around them and love them like a brother just because they are "Christian, too". In a place like this, on the forum, I believe that it can be sometimes easier to identify each other (or maybe tougher depending on the personalities)...so, that all being said, I have struggled with knowing when I am just to have regular love for my fellow man, and when I am to fall in love with them like family..:) Lastly, I find it funny that sometimes I feel a swell of love in my heart for a bum on the street, (obviously from the Lord because I used to avoid eye contact with anyone on the street before) and then feel awkward and strange with some of my peers who claim to have a personal relationship with Jesus. :) Isn't that a headscratcher?
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I guess for me sometimes it's hard, and sometimes it's easy. But I do see this type of love Ray describes often in the forum.
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,7047.0.html
v. 15 Whosoever hates his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal (eonian or age lasting) life abiding in him.
v. 16 Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.
It doesn’t mean we are to go out and let a truck drive over you, it just means you should serve. When you use your time, your money, your effort, your energy, your emotions to help somebody else, whether it be a friend, a neighbor, your husband, your wife, your children to the extent you do. All the time doing, thinking, praising, helping someone else, you are laying your life down for them. I mean living, breathing, moving, doing, saying - that’s life. When all your living, breathing, doing… when a lot of that is directed towards somebody who will profit from your looking after them and being concerned, that’s laying down your life. That’s how you lay down your life, without actually dying.
v. 17 But whoso hath this world's good, and sees his brother have need, and shuts up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwells the love of God in him?
v. 18 My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.
v. 19 And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him.
v. 20 For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knows all things.
v. 21 Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, then have we confidence toward God.
v. 22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep His commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in His sight.
v. 23 And this is His commandment, That we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as He gave us commandment.
v. 24 And he that keeps His commandments dwells in Him, and He in him. And hereby we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit which He hath given us.
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Peace & LOVE y'all. :)
G.Driggs
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Hi Rene,
When I read your post the first scripture that came to mind is;
1 Peter 4:8 (KJV)
And above all things have fervent charity among yourselves: for charity shall cover the multitude of sins.
(TLB)
Most important of all, continue to show deep love for each other, for love makes up for many of your faults.
(TAB)
Above all things have intense and unfailing love for one another, for love covers a multitude of sins-forgives and disregards the offenses of others.
I use to have a lot of hate for others in the world before I came to BT, maybe not so much hate, but intolerance and disdain, discuss, disapproval, what ever, but now I can see more these days how that "God so loved the world".
Even though I have never seen any of you personally, I feel that there is that kindred Spirit amongst the forum members. We haven't met any of the people of God that we read about in the Bible either, sort of the same thing I suppose. :)
Joel
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I think the main thing is to not wish or want evil upon any of them...especially more so the ones you love less than others.
To be perfectly honest this seems weak too me. At best, its kind of like a "passive" love, if love can ever actually be passive. Is that all "love" is? Just not wishing or wanting evil on anyone?
I think God would feel that is lukewarm at best. And we know what Jesus says about lukewarmness. I think Love is not just passive, but actively acts for the welfare and betterment and well being of the loved one. Are you really saying that love, Jesus love, means not getting personally involved? Just benevolent indifference, because you stay away from them? if you are, thats a pretty darn easy standard to meet.
Mat 5:46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?
Mat 5:47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?
I think Jesus has a lot more in mind, being a whole lot more than what the world or publicans do. I think real love will ACTIVELY get involved and will ACTIVELY give of itself. Somehow I think that is so beyond human nature, so far beyond the publican, that only that is of God. Passive "love" not demonstrated by action, does not pass the love test, to me. It passes the nice guy test, only.
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Hi Rene,
Yes Rene this Commandment TO LOVE ONE ANOTHER is very important as it is stated for emphasis many times throughout the Scriptures as you eluded to. There are Scritures giving believers instructions on what to do to LOVE ONE ANOTHER. Other give results of Loving One Another. John 13:34 " A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another. Result (35) "By this all men will know you are My disciples, if you have love for one another. 1John 3:23 This is His commandment that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love One another, just as He commanded us. Why is this important (24) The one who keeps His commandments abides in Him, an He in him. We know by this that He abides in us, by the Spirit He has given us. Is it difficult? I don't know. For some yes for others it maybe easier. I believe it all depends on God with each believer.
Hummer
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I think the main thing is to not wish or want evil upon any of them...especially more so the ones you love less than others.
To be perfectly honest this seems weak too me. At best, its kind of like a "passive" love, if love can ever actually be passive. Is that all "love" is? Just not wishing or wanting evil on anyone?
I think God would feel that is lukewarm at best. And we know what Jesus says about lukewarmness. I think Love is not just passive, but actively acts for the welfare and betterment and well being of the loved one. Are you really saying that love, Jesus love, means not getting personally involved? Just benevolent indifference, because you stay away from them? if you are, thats a pretty darn easy standard to meet.
Mat 5:46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?
Mat 5:47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?
I think Jesus has a lot more in mind, being a whole lot more than what the world or publicans do. I think real love will ACTIVELY get involved and will ACTIVELY give of itself. Somehow I think that is so beyond human nature, so far beyond the publican, that only that is of God. Passive "love" not demonstrated by action, does not pass the love test, to me. It passes the nice guy test, only.
As I said, the MAIN thing is to not wish or want evil upon anyone, not the ONLY thing. If you have evil in your hearts towards anyone, being 'active' in helping them only makes you a hypocrite, even if it's only something God can see. I'm talking about cleaning the inside of the cup first before the outside, not vice-versa.
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Another good Scripture to add to the discussion.
Gal 6:7 Do not be deceived, God is not mocked. For whatever a man sows, that he also will reap.
Gal 6:8 For he sowing to his flesh will reap corruption from the flesh. But he sowing to the Spirit will reap life everlasting from the Spirit.
Gal 6:9 But we should not lose heart in well-doing, for in due season we shall reap, if we do not faint.
Gal 6:10 So then as we have time, let us work good toward all, especially toward those of the household of faith.
I believe we need to give special attention when we are aware that someone shares the indwelling of the Spirit. Surely we need to learn how to deal circumspectly with our brothers and sisters now, if we are to eventually judge the world with Christ.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
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Thank you all for your loving replies. ;)
I believe this love one another that Jesus and Paul and Peter and John commanded the "Body of Christ" to have is a love that can only be accomplished through the indwelling of the holy spirit.
I also believe I am experiencing a measure of this love as I relate to a few of my like-minded brethren at this time, however, I yearn to feel and understand this love completely. I have faith that the Lord will accomplish this in me, and you, in due time. :)
René
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If you have evil in your hearts towards anyone
having evil is your heart towards anyone is simply not allowed. If we have that, we are really really far from loving them. 1Jn 4:20 If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?
I personally think Christs command to love our enemies is the hardest command out there. I don't think it is hard to love my fellow brothers and sisters in Christ. I do believe that loving those whom you find repugnant or those who hate you is only possible by the spirit of God. But with God all things are possible. May He give us the power and HEART to do this.
As far as judging the world? I do not believe anyone is qualified to judge the world UNLESS they love the ones they are judging. And I mean active love. When Joseph judged his brothers for what they did to him, and brought them to acknowledgement of their evil and sinfulness, his entire attitude the whole time was of complete love and forgiveness. Even as he acted and pretended to be otherwise towards them, in leading them to repentance. He could hardly contain his emotion towards them, positive feelings, joyful feelings, even though they sold him and threw him into a pit, and separated him from the family, seemingly, forever. One is NOT qualified to judge others if you have any bitterness, anger, hatred, or hate towards them, personally. You must love them, and not is some weak way; and want to see them restored. If you are chosen by God to be one of those who are to help judge the world, then you should be demonstrating your growing qualifications to do so by acting in love towards your brothers and not only not holding grudges towards your enemies, but actually loving them. It is the command of God.
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If you have evil in your hearts towards anyone
having evil is your heart towards anyone is simply not allowed. If we have that, we are really really far from loving them. 1Jn 4:20 If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?
I believe that's what I said above, at least in my full statement. I think we're on the same page just from different viewpoints.
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All good points, but the love I am specifically talking about (that I feel Jesus and the Apostles are talking about in the scriptures I listed), is specifically instructing the "Body of Christ", to love one another. I'm focusing more on the love that we like-minded believers should have toward one another, not the agape love we should have for all of mankind.
Is it hard for us like-minded believers to love one another? Does the lack of physical contact and our inability to see one another on a regular basis get in the way of our loving one another? Or should that even matter? Or maybe it's not a problem for us and we all have the love that Jesus commanded us to have for one another. :-\ Just asking. :D
Ray's bible study on "Love" (http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3719.0.html) covers the difference in agape and phileo love. It's an excellent lesson to review as well.
René
Hey Rene!
I love that you asked this!
I think its about as hard to love like minded believers as is loving anyone who says they love you.
Do they show love towards you? Do we show love towards one another?
How does that love begin?
Between like minded people, they share common beliefs, common ways of thinking, and common ways of just doing things.
I lack this with the majority. It's hard to foster these types of relationships from great distances and over the internet even over the phone.
I honestly believe no one can truly love me unless they have met me and me the same.
How can I show a great care and understanding of someones life if I don't know their life.
I have to know their ups and downs, achievements and failures.
Some of us have been given the opportunity to reach out to those in need. I think that's where it starts.
Can you name a best friend that you have and it didn't begin with them meeting your need or you theirs.
The testimony page of this forum seeks to reveal those in need to those that can possibly help.
I have no doubt that friendships have been grounded there.
I think the problem too is believing like mindedness.
I think if any one of us were in a room together long enough we would find a disagreement about something.
What judges the love we have for one another is how we handle those disagreements. Resolution shows great love and maturity and also builds respect and trust. Things common in a loving relationship!
Thank You Rene
Antaiwan
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I think we're on the same page just from different viewpoints.
Somebody made a statement one time not long ago about view points that are basically the same but not exactly, I think it was Craig, something like this,
We are eating off opposite ends of the same banana.
That's true love man..... :)
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I believe love is "attitude and action". "For God so loved the world, He GAVE..." John 3: !6.
If one goes thru life looking for people who need help and one has a willing spirit to help--I think that is what is meant by "loving people".
Yesterday eas perfect example. My step son and I were changing the spark plug wires on his truck and we found they needed replacing. He had no money, nor did I, and the wires were $30.00. I went and borrowed $30.00 from my sister and we got the wires. She, then, gave me a ride to the parts store.
When we went to give the wires to Joe, she remembered that he wrote and played a guitar solo for my mother's funeral. She said "the wires are a gift from me to you for your part in the funeral! THAT'S love!
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I wrote this a while back but i suppose it fits with how my feelings are regarding your question :)
The Great Commandment
So I was awake at about 5:00 this morning unable to go back to sleep and I so I cracked up the ole' good book and started reading and I felt like there was a new truth revealed to me. Never know when it is going to happen do we? At any rate I thought I would share.
Matthew 22:34-40 (King James Version)
But when the Pharisees had heard that he had put the Sadducees to silence, they were gathered together. Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying, Master, which is the great commandment in the law? Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
Here we have the Pharisees, yet again, trying to discredit Christ and trap him in some form or fashion. They asked him “Which is the great commandment in the law? That is to say, what is the greatest commandment, the most important in the law.
Jesus says: Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment.
BUT then he goes onto say: And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
Initially it appears he is saying the “first” great law is to love the Lord thy God and then the second most important is to love thy neighbor as thyself...but is this REALLY what Jesus is saying? Sure he says the most important law is to love the Lord thy God with all your heart, soul and mind...but then he says the second law is LIKE UNTO IT! How can that be?
If you were to ask me “What is the greatest pizza restaurant in the world?” And I say Pizza Hut is the greatest but the second greatest is Domino's and its like the first! But how? How can the second greatest be like the first greatest? That doesn't make sense! They both can't be the greatest! The same goes with the commandment, they both can't be the great commandment, the most important above all.
Or can they? As a matter of fact, they can!
Ask yourself, do you know anyone who loves the Lord thy God with ALL thy heart, and with ALL thy soul, and with ALL thy mind? Is there a single person in the world that does? If they do I have not met them. But does God love us with everything he is? Most certainly.
I would be a liar if I claimed to love the Lord with ALL my heart, soul, and mind...but I am working on it always. I wish I did but I know I don't and you know what? I don't a single person who truly does either. One day we will but we as carnal beings do not and as far as I know can not love God with EVERYTHING that I am at all times. Why? Because we are sinful in nature.
Next, do you love your neighbor as thyself? Do you REALLY LOVE your neighbor? I don't mean your family or friends but just the people around you...Do you truly love them even half as much as you do yourself? I know that I personally do care to a certain extent but I would not say I love my neighbor even a fraction as much as I love my mother, father or brother. I care if something bad happens to someone and I will certainly step up to protect someone if they are under attack or in danger but I can't honestly say that I love them as much as I love myself. I don't make a habit of judging or condemning those who disagree with my views because I know that one day they will see the truth. I simply don't have enough love inside of me to care about my neighbor as I do myself or my family and friends. To be honest I don't know a single Christian who does and most are quick to condemn many to hell for not believing what they do and they claim to do so out of love...even though the Bible says there is no fear in love. These people do not love God with everything that they are! They think they do but they are lying to themselves!
A lot of people have this idea that loving God is something you do by obeying all the things he tells us and it is true that obeying him is something we should do and you should obey his word which is to love your enemies and do good unto others but not many TRULY do. What if it is when God is truly in you, you WILL love others as much as you love yourself. It is a hard pill to swallow for many because most people don't care about loving their neighbor and they certainly don't want to base whether or not they truly love God on loving others because if we did hold people accountable by that definition then it would most definitely prove that they DON'T truly love God! At least not with all their heart, soul and mind...perhaps in some part but not totally. Why? Because they don't love their neighbor! Most people don't give a flip about just the random people in our lives unless some catastrophe happens right in front of eyes and then by conscience we act in order to help in many cases but other than most don't care.
So what is Jesus really saying here? Loving thy neighbor as thyself is the SAME as loving the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind! Is Jesus really saying this?? That these are the SAME THING? We have been taught that loving God is this personal relationship with Jesus and obeying what the Bible says. Yes, believing that Christ is your Lord and savior is the way to be saved but according to these verses loving God with everything that you are IS loving your neighbor...who would accept such a thing? Most Christians won't. Why? Because they want it to be all about themselves! It isn't about EVERYONE its about THEM! It isn't about the WHOLE of humanity its about just them and no one else! Thats the mindset that the Christian world has and they put up a display of caring for others when they really don't. They say they love others but they don't! They judge and condemn and persecute and hate all those who don't believe in Jesus...or more specifically what they believe.
John 15:12-17
This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you. Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends. Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you. Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you. Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you. These things I command you, that ye love one another.
If you love your neighbor as much as you love yourself you ARE loving God with everything you are...but once again, how many people do you know that truly fit this description? I don't know any but I believe one day we will and until then strive for this. God himself is IN US and if we love one another even half as much as he loves us we will be showing a bit better the great commandment of love unto him. So am I admitting that I don't love God totally? You better believe it. I'm not proud of that but I admit it and Lord willing I will begin to show greater love to my neighbor.
Matthew 22:40 On these two commandments hang ALL the law and the prophets.
Love one another as you do yourself and you WILL be loving God with all that you are....
God Bless
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Foxx..well done! Bravo! :)
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I don't believe we need to FEEL love always but for sure we must act in love. Where is that vs? Love is patient, kind, not easily offended, does not seek his own way, etc. I have disliked many people but make myself be kind and compassionate anyway. Just try not grimmacing at some of the things people say, that's hard. Isn't it true that it is not how much we love but how much we are loved is a good measure. Certainly not at any price! Understanding someone and what they have been through makes it easier to love them.
judy
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An interesting note about this that I caught today. None of those verses use phileo; not one of them. They all use agapao. It definitely puts those verses, for me, in a whole new light. We are to love one another EVEN IF those around us don't reciprocate, EVEN IF they spit in our faces, EVEN IF they are backbiting you and smiling in your face, etc.
I wouldn't be able to do that on my own. I would very much need His influence.
Here's what Ray said about agapao v. phileo in his Bible Study "Love." (http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3719.0.html (http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3719.0.html))
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So now I can see some better distinctions. It, agape - is a complex emotion, arousing appreciation or delight in and desire for the presence of it’s object; as well as to please and promote it’s welfare.
Now here is the word phileo. We understand the word Philadelphia, the city of brotherly love, Philadelphia - it means to be fond of, responsive, affection based on approval and regard.
That’s a little complicated, basically it’s this. God of love -agape, is a one-way street, God loves, He gives. It’s not based on whether the ones He gives it to, loves Him back. While we were yet sinners, Christ died for us, right. Why? Because He loves us, “for God so loved the world.” That includes all these drug dealing, wife beating, God defying people. He so loved the world, did they love Him back? No, very few people love God back. It’s a one-way street... He loves. He’s the One that loves, not getting anything back for it, He loves.
But phileo love, is where two people are fond of each other and they’re responsive to each other. It has to do with affections, based on the approval of the one you’re giving out to, you see. Why are people friends? Because they reciprocate, right.
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When God encounters us deeply from His Love side, it is positively instant melt of the hardest heart. I do not believe anyone could withstand His Love if he revealed it fully. maybe that is why Moses could not see His glory face to face, in this mortal state. When He encounters you from His judgement side, it is instant fear to obey. At least that has been my experience. If God pours out His agape Love believe me, it is full of feeling. It is a better motivator for me to follow Him than anything else.
My point is, when you love your enemies, or just your relatives when they are jerks ;D and obey Gods command to love in spite of feelings, God sheds forth His agape Love in YOUR HEART! Then you have LOTS of motivation to continue loving the unlovable! And somehow, you begin to associate loving those difficult people with Gods agape Love, and guess what, it isn't as hard to do it. Suddenly you become more patient, more understanding, more willing to give, and more able to put aside the self. It all depends on how much of Gods agape love He has shed forth in your heart, that you can then extend to others. Agape Love is very powerful, when it comes from God.
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John,
I appreciate all of the comments.
I especially liked your as I apply it to myself.
Thanks, Indiana Bob
An interesting note about this that I caught today. None of those verses use phileo; not one of them. They all use agapao. It definitely puts those verses, for me, in a whole new light. We are to love one another EVEN IF those around us don't reciprocate, EVEN IF they spit in our faces, EVEN IF they are backbiting you and smiling in your face, etc.
I wouldn't be able to do that on my own. I would very much need His influence.
Here's what Ray said about agapao v. phileo in his Bible Study "Love." (http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3719.0.html (http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3719.0.html))
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So now I can see some better distinctions. It, agape - is a complex emotion, arousing appreciation or delight in and desire for the presence of it’s object; as well as to please and promote it’s welfare.
Now here is the word phileo. We understand the word Philadelphia, the city of brotherly love, Philadelphia - it means to be fond of, responsive, affection based on approval and regard.
That’s a little complicated, basically it’s this. God of love -agape, is a one-way street, God loves, He gives. It’s not based on whether the ones He gives it to, loves Him back. While we were yet sinners, Christ died for us, right. Why? Because He loves us, “for God so loved the world.” That includes all these drug dealing, wife beating, God defying people. He so loved the world, did they love Him back? No, very few people love God back. It’s a one-way street... He loves. He’s the One that loves, not getting anything back for it, He loves.
But phileo love, is where two people are fond of each other and they’re responsive to each other. It has to do with affections, based on the approval of the one you’re giving out to, you see. Why are people friends? Because they reciprocate, right.
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I think it is easier to love people we feel a kinship to. I think before BT, I had a more difficult time loving anyone who didn't fit into my mold. Now I feel more loving towards everyone and less in competition with those who wouldn't agree with me or whom I disagree with.
I also think love is not a feeling but an action. I think the love God wants us to show the world is doing our best to help, love, comfort, feed, clothe, shelter, etc. all of God's children.
This is where I think us humans fail the most.
We tend to get too comfortable with our own lives that we don't "see" the hurting, needy people all around us. Or we are too caught up in our own messes to have the time or inclination to help anyone else.
And the church has done a fantastic job making sure that the pew sitters aren't doing much as they are required to give to the church and the church is supposed to do the helping. Problem is, they don't do it either. Too busy making cozy the pew sitters and pastors.
New Orleans has just finished fixing their superdome. They still have homeless/displaced people from the hurricane, but their superdome is spectacular. :-\
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Lenny wrote :" I think it is easier to love people we feel a kinship to. I think before BT, I had a more difficult time loving anyone who didn't fit into my mold. Now I feel more loving towards everyone and less in competition with those who wouldn't agree with me or whom I disagree with."
I totally agree! It has been life changing. Thanks for sharing that Lenny.
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I just got through reading a book called Tortured for Christ. Its about the underground church in Romania when the Russions took over. The love this guy describes for his fellow brothers and sisters is almost unreal. And that love is seen by their torturers. They were also able to sinsearly love those who were killing them and saw many converted, who would then be in the cell with them being tortured with them and thanking God. I think love grows among people when they share hardship. I know I would starve to death if it kept my (blood) brother from dieing of starvation. I want that kind of love for all my brothers and sisters. That's a fruit of the Spirit that only God can give. Its been said before, that can't be fabricated. I think some real persecution would help. But maybe that's just me.
Love ya all...
Stan
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stanstillwhite...
I love seeing Love in ACTION, not just in word or sayings or creeds. And it is the ONLY thing that God is going to count for praise towards him, everything else will burn. Those ACTS of LOVE are HOLY; a sweet savour to God, an acceptable and pleasing sacrifice; and some of the greatest acts of LOVE have taken place under the radar, when people who are called by HIS name LOVE their enemies for REAL; and do what only Jesus would do, as Jesus does His works in them. Thanks for sharing that. I wholeheartedly agree and I love reading those things, too.
Doug