bible-truths.com/forums
=> General Discussions => Topic started by: legoman on October 22, 2008, 12:15:50 PM
-
Many are called but few are chosen.
How many people will actually endure to the end (when Christ comes)? Right now, I'm having a hard time seeing myself do it.
I look around at everyone I know, and I see literally no potential candidates. Especially considering to be one of the 'few' you at least have to understand that God is not going to torture most of humanity for eternity. Am I correct on that assertion?
I'm beginning to wonder how few the 'few' might actually be. Could the few be as little as 1000 people? A hundred people? A dozen people?
Any thoughts or scripture reference on this?
It helps to bring perspective to what is going on.
Kevin
-
Hello Kevin,
That's an interesting question though of course I don't have the answer. :D
But I will say, that it seems like the 'few' are relative to the 'many'. I personally think the few are more now than what I first came into the knowledge of the truth. I mean, the many is really a lot if you think about how long we, as humanity, has been on this earth. So I would think the few would be relative to that.
Basically, the more of the 'many' the more of the 'few'. But this isn't something I believe is set in stone. God is doing a 'strange work' so it could be the opposite: the more the 'many' the fewer the 'few'. Who knows? :D
Marques
-
Im just a washed up old country drunk, but Im pretty sure the quote " The more the merrier" does not apply here. I think when God says few, I think he means it. As for myself, im striving for the 1st resurrection, but at this point in time it's a long shot......... Real Long.
Love in Christ
Longhorn
-
If I am not counted among the few then there still is hope,
till then I'll be faithful and endure to the end :)
-
Hey legoman
I think our best guess would be to go to where Moses and Aaron (the Father and Jesus) was to pick some men to help judge matters with the Isrealites
Exodus 18:13-27
13 The next day Moses took his seat to serve as judge for the people, and they stood around him from morning till evening. 14 When his father-in-law saw all that Moses was doing for the people, he said, "What is this you are doing for the people? Why do you alone sit as judge, while all these people stand around you from morning till evening?" 15 Moses answered him, "Because the people come to me to seek God's will. 16 Whenever they have a dispute, it is brought to me, and I decide between the parties and inform them of God's decrees and laws." 17 Moses' father-in-law replied, "What you are doing is not good. 18 You and these people who come to you will only wear yourselves out. The work is too heavy for you; you cannot handle it alone. 19 Listen now to me and I will give you some advice, and may God be with you. You must be the people's representative before God and bring their disputes to him. 20 Teach them the decrees and laws, and show them the way to live and the duties they are to perform. 21 But select capable men from all the people--men who fear God, trustworthy men who hate dishonest gain--and appoint them as officials over thousands, hundreds, fifties and tens. [/glow] 22 Have them serve as judges for the people at all times, but have them bring every difficult case to you; the simple cases they can decide themselves. That will make your load lighter, because they will share it with you. 23 If you do this and God so commands, you will be able to stand the strain, and all these people will go home satisfied." 24 Moses listened to his father-in-law and did everything he said. 25 He chose capable men from all Israel and made them leaders of the people, officials over thousands, hundreds, fifties and tens. 26 They served as judges for the people at all times.[/font] The difficult cases they brought to Moses, but the simple ones they decided themselves. 27 Then Moses sent his father-in-law on his way, and Jethro returned to his own country.
Compare this with the parable Jesus gave. Although it doesnt have a number i think is the symbol of whats to come.
Anthony
-
Legoman
It’s not in man to direct his footsteps, Who ever God has chosen will not fail. I know what you mean about not holding out till the end but also what choice do we have?
I could be wrong but when I think of our will being subjected to God’s will I have a feeling everything was already planed out from before the foundations of the world and we are simply living out what God has declared.
But it does seem good to say there is much wisdom in learning righteousness now as you know we are all going to have to learn righteousness anyways, so I think having a head start is a good thing.
But how many are the few, well if I don’t make it, will not the number of the few remain the same, I think so. :-\
In God’s love. Richard.
-
Im just a washed up old country drunk, but Im pretty sure the quote " The more the merrier" does not apply here. I think when God says few, I think he means it. As for myself, im striving for the 1st resurrection, but at this point in time it's a long shot......... Real Long.
Love in Christ
Longhorn
Don't worry dear Longhorn, your not alone. I can speak for myself here, when i say its a LONGSHOT for me as well.
God bless brother.
Love in Christ to you!
Alex
-
Longhorn and Alex, I agree it is a long shot, but with God it is not impossible. We just need to keep in the race. I belive he is able to keep us there cause it really all depends on him, but we still have to stay in it. What I believe keeps us in it is praying at all times. Wanting to know him more and more. We have to be like Jesus dependent on him. Cause in all reality it is all his decision to choose who he wants.
In His Love
Marlene
-
Hi, I did some grade 4 math work on this and YIKES!! I will never make it. 144,000 from 12 tribes, 12,000 from each tribe. If you take 6,000,000,000 people on earth divided by 12 = 500,000,000 per tribe. Looks to me like the odds are not to good for this if the few are :- from the 144,000.
Bless you all Ricky :-[
-
Look you guy are all messed up, the JWs already have the 144,000 taken by them.
Sorry, not to be flippant but i have a problem with figuring this one out at all, we
Believers are Called out of Babylon By God. Jesus Does The Work In us and On us
so what are we doing to be Chosen.
George.
-
Look you guy are all messed up, the JWs already have the 144,000 taken by them.
Sorry, not to be flippant but i have a problem with figuring this one out at all, we
Believers are Called out of Babylon By God. Jesus Does The Work In us and On us
so what are we doing to be Chosen.
George.
??? Goerge, i don't think anyone is insinuiting that we do anything, we all know that every perfect gift comes from above, from the Father, however that doesn't mean that we are not accountable for our carnal actions. With this accountability that i have, i also have great shame for being so carnal minded. Looking at that, i can see that God has ALOT of work to do with me, not that He can't do it, and like you said, it's all Him and in His time. So very true, i just pray that the Lord isn't going to leave me the way He found me but that He will change me before the ressurection so that i may be among the firstfruits =]
God bless,
Alex
-
Alex,
My remark was a bit funny i thought, JW, 144k. ;D No i do not think anyone is insinuating any such thing.
The statement i made was to reiterate my personal understanding of God's Grace and Faith we exercise
to live this now painful life. We are there if it is God's Will or not if it is not, He has Called us Already.
George.
-
Alex,
My remark was a bit funny i thought, JW, 144k. ;D No i do not think anyone is insinuating any such thing.
The statement i made was to reiterate my personal understanding of God's Grace and Faith we exercise
to live this now painful life. We are there if it is God's Will or not if it is not, He has Called us Already.
George.
If there is only going to be 144,000 as the JW believe........I don't have any shot ;)
I'm ignorant of what the numbers all mean...24 Elders...2 Witnesses....I know the "Elite" but beyong that I'm clueless,,,, ???
???
Brenda
-
Me neither, or is that either. Since All the book of Revelation is a Parable,
the 144,000 number is also part of that Parable. ???
clueless is right for me too.
Geo.
-
If there is only going to be 144,000 as the JW believe........I don't have any shot ;)
I'm ignorant of what the numbers all mean...24 Elders...2 Witnesses....I know the "Elite" but beyong that I'm clueless,,,, ???
???
Brenda
Excerpt from Lake of Fire part 4:
In ancient Israel there were three times in the year when all men were to appear before God:
1. THE WAVE SHEAF (Feast of Unleavened Bread and Passover): "Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, When ye be come into the land which I give unto you, and shall reap the harvest thereof, then ye shall bring a sheaf OF the firstfruits of your harvest unto the priest ... And ye shall offer that day when ye wave the sheaf an he lamb without blemish of the FIRST year for a burnt offering unto the Lord" (Lev. 23:10-12).
COMMENT: This wave sheaf of the very first of the firstfruits is a type of our Lord Who was the perfect Lamb without blemish offered in the Spring on Passover. "But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the FIRSTFRUIT of them that sleep" (I Cor. 15:20). Jesus is not the entire firstfruits but rather "the firstfruit OF them that sleep." He is the firstfruit OF the firstfruit or more precisely the "wave sheaf OF the firstfruits." Firstfruit is a term that pertains to agriculture and harvesting. It was never a theological term until introduced into the New Testament with regards to a small number who would be saved prior to a much larger number to be saved later.
2. THE FIRSTFRUITS (Feast of Weeks): "All the best of the oil , and all the best of the wine, and of the wheat, the FIRSTFRUITS of them which they shall offer unto the Lord, them have I given thee ... And whatsoever is FIRST RIPE in the land which they shall bring unto the Lord, shall be thine..." (Num. 18:12 & 13). "And now, behold, I have brought the firstfruits of the land, which thou, O Lord, has given me. And thou shalt set it before the LORD thy God, and worship before the Lord thy God" (Deut. 26:10).
COMMENT: The type in the New Testament of this Old Testament symbol is the Believer. Notice what James tells us, "Of His own will begat He us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of FIRSTFRUITS of His creatures" (James 1:18). Now a very important point: How far down the road in prophecy can we go until we reach the end of the firstfruits? In Rev. 7:4-8 we read of the sealing of the 144,000. These are a different group from the great innumerable multitude, which no man could number, from every nation and tongue spoken of beginning in verse 9.
In Chapter 14:1 & 4 we are told specifically who these 144,000 are: "And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Zion, and with Him an hundred forty and four thousand [notice that the innumerable multitudes from all nations is not mentioned here] ... These are they which were not defiled with women, for they are virgins [as in the Bride of Christ]. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever He goes. These were redeemed from among men, BEING THE FIRSTFRUITS unto God and to the Lamb" (Rev. 14:1 & 4). So every believer from the Apostles to the 144,000 just prior to the return of Jesus Christ to establish His reign on the earth, is called and likened to FIRSTFRUITS! So what does this have to do with the lake of fire? EVERYTHING! Everyone saved before the Day of Judging is likened to firstfruits, so there will be no more firstfruits after the white throne judgment.
Paul tells us in Rom. 8:23, "And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the FIRSTFRUITS of the Spirit..." Nowhere do we read of the "LASTFRUITS," but whenever something is FIRST we also know there is something to follow. Nor are there any references to any "ONLYFRUITS." The firstfruits are clearly not the ONLY fruits! Follow this very closely now, for you are in for a big shock when you understand the type in the fall festival of Tabernacles—the great fall harvest.
3. THE END-OF-THE-YEAR FEAST OF INGATHERING (Feast of Tabernacles): "And the feast of harvest, the firstfruits of thy labours, which thou has sown in the field and the FEAST OF INGATHERING, which is in the END OF THE YEAR, when you have gathered in thy labours out of the field" (Ex. 23:16).
"Thou shall observe the FEAST OF TABERNACLES seven [number of perfection] days, after that you have gathered in your corn and your wine: And you shall REJOICE IN YOUR FEAST, you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, the stranger, and the widow, that are within your gates [that’s just about EVERYONE, wouldn’t you say?]. Seven days [here’s that perfect number again] shall you keep A SOLEMN FEAST [a very important feast to God] unto the LORD your God in the place which the Lord shall choose: because the Lord thy God shall bless you in all your increase, and in all the works of your hands, therefore you shalt surely REJOICE" (Deut. 16:13-15). Here truly was a festival in which EVERYONE, every single person in all Israel, and also did you notice, "the STRANGER" who was NOT an Israelite could really REJOICE! THIS FESTIVAL WAS THE HAPPIEST TIME OF THE YEAR! Do we think it will have no fulfillment in God’s grand plan of salvation?
"Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, the fifteenth day of this seventh month shall be the FEAST OF TABERNACLES for seven days unto the LORD. On the first day shall be an holy convocation: you shall do no servile work therein. Seven days you shall offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD: on the EIGHTH DAY shall be an holy convocation unto you; and ye shall offer an offering made by FIRE unto the LORD: it is a SOLEMN assembly; and you shall do no servile work therein" (Lev. 23:34-36). Why is the profound and marvelous truth of this festival not taught in its proper chronological order by the prophets of Christendom? How is it even possible to avoid seeing the powerful and glorious consummation of God’s salvation in this Fall Harvest Festival? Why is the truth of this GREAT FEAST being hidden from the eyes of the world? What is it that they are trying to hide from us? God’s Word will show us.
And one from part 8:
THE CHURCH IN PHILADELPHIA
"Him that overcomes will I make a pillar [a position of great spiritual responsibility] in the temple of my God" (3:12).
That’s CHRIST,
"And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the Chief Corner Stone; In Whom all the building fitly framed together grows unto an HOLY TEMPLE IN THE LORD" (Eph. 2:21).
Christ is our Temple for we live in Him as HIS BODY, and we are the temple of God’s Holy Spirit that lives and dwells IN US, and Christ IS that Spirit—"abide in Me, and I in you."
And "…he shall go no more out" That’s CHRIST. We are IN Christ, we are the Body of Christ, Christ is our temple, our house, where we dwell "IN Christ."
We abide and dwell in Christ and Christ abides and dwells and lives HIS LIFE in us, so that we will "go no more out," till at the consummations of all the ages, "God may be ALL in All" (I Cor. 15:28).
"And I will write upon him the NAME OF MY GOD, and the NAME OF THE CITY of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God: and I will write upon him MY NEW NAME."
That’s CHRIST! These are honors and rewards bestowed upon us by Christ. The 144,000 (12 x 12, complete foundational kingdom of God’s government for the new world) are given the Father’s name in their foreheads (Rev. 14:1 & 22:4). Not a tattoo on the forehead skin, but inside their foreheads, in their hearts and minds.
New Jerusalem is the heavenly Jerusalem spoken of in Heb. 12:22, where "the general assembly and church of the firstborn [Christ and His anointed body of believers], which are written in heaven" is found. It is from New Jerusalem and heavenly Mt. Sion that the government of Christ will proceed in bringing Salvation to the Earth and the Universe (Isa. 2:2). I will write upon him My new name. This is the same new name that we discussed in the Church of Pergamos.
It's not a literal number...only a symbol of completeness of God's kingdom. :)
Marques
-
Alex,
My remark was a bit funny i thought, JW, 144k. ;D No i do not think anyone is insinuating any such thing.
The statement i made was to reiterate my personal understanding of God's Grace and Faith we exercise
to live this now painful life. We are there if it is God's Will or not if it is not, He has Called us Already.
George.
If there is only going to be 144,000 as the JW believe........I don't have any shot ;)
I'm ignorant of what the numbers all mean...24 Elders...2 Witnesses....I know the "Elite" but beyong that I'm clueless,,,, ???
???
Brenda
Hello Brenda & George,
Let me explain to you to that the JW'S interpret all numbers in Revelation as Symbolic, 24 Elders, 12 Tribes, etc; EXCEPT the 144,000 anointed ones or chosen(Elect), that number they interpret to be a literal number. What the present day JW doesn't tell you is that this number(144,000) was already reached by 1935. The Organization justifies this by saying that anyone claiming to be of the Elect after 1935, are replacements of those that proved unfaithfull, like former Governing Body member, Raymond Franz and others.
All I can say to the above is that there must have been alot of replacements since 1935.
1935 was supposed to be the cut-off date and that understanding, according to them, was supposed to be from God. ::) ;D
Hope this helps, Samson.
-
Sounds like what my younger Brother 35+ years Jw and my Mother have said many times.
They of course are very sad that i am so blinded as to not see their truths. I am so thankful
that Our God is no Respecter of persons and His Will Is That Everyone Be Saved. My Jw remarks
are somewhat derisive because (that is an Idol of my heart) to be still upset at things they said
to me which helped send me looking at other things.
(eat drink and be merry for tomorrow you shall die) unless you are a Jw.
George.
Alex,
My remark was a bit funny i thought, JW, 144k. ;D No i do not think anyone is insinuating any such thing.
The statement i made was to reiterate my personal understanding of God's Grace and Faith we exercise
to live this now painful life. We are there if it is God's Will or not if it is not, He has Called us Already.
George.
If there is only going to be 144,000 as the JW believe........I don't have any shot ;)
I'm ignorant of what the numbers all mean...24 Elders...2 Witnesses....I know the "Elite" but beyong that I'm clueless,,,, ???
???
Brenda
Hello Brenda & George,
Let me explain to you to that the JW'S interpret all numbers in Revelation as Symbolic, 24 Elders, 12 Tribes, etc; EXCEPT the 144,000 anointed ones or chosen(Elect), that number they interpret to be a literal number. What the present day JW doesn't tell you is that this number(144,000) was already reached by 1935. The Organization justifies this by saying that anyone claiming to be of the Elect after 1935, are replacements of those that proved unfaithfull, like former Governing Body member, Raymond Franz and others.
All I can say to the above is that there must have been alot of replacements since 1935.
1935 was supposed to be the cut-off date and that understanding, according to them, was supposed to be from God. ::) ;D
Hope this helps, Samson.
-
hello all
you know what i think ,all the pastors who collects tithes from their followers,are the ones who are
running for the elect,because they have the money to be elected. ha,ha
excuse me wrong scene, thank GOD he doesn't think like man.
walt.
-
Thanks Marques,
Everytime I read Ray's teachings I get more out of it. :)
So I understand that all these numbers are symbols of the Elect.
What I lack still is ever being taught the meanings behind them. I suspect that people coming out of certain church backgrounds have a foundation of understanding that I'm missing. I see that 12 x 12 = 144,000
But twelve what? Is it 12 tribes X 12 apostles? is the 12 + 12 = the 24 Elders? 2 Witness Old & New Testament?
Am I getting warmer?
Thanks,
Brenda
Samson....Funny how all Babylon teachings switch from symbols to literal to suit their ideals?
-
Thanks Marques,
Everytime I read Ray's teachings I get more out of it. :)
So I understand that all these numbers are symbols of the Elect.
What I lack still is ever being taught the meanings behind them. I suspect that people coming out of certain church backgrounds have a foundation of understanding that I'm missing. I see that 12 x 12 = 144,000
But twelve what? Is it 12 tribes X 12 apostles? is the 12 + 12 = the 24 Elders? 2 Witness Old & New Testament?
Am I getting warmer?
Thanks,
Brenda
Samson....Funny how all Babylon teachings switch from symbols to literal to suit their ideals?
Yes, it's something like that but I want to state this for everyone:
I don't want to sound like I'm preaching/teaching, but let's not go over the top with this discussion and saying this symbol means this and so on. If one has SCRIPTURE, then yes, let's hear the spiritual understanding. If not, let's not break the forum rules as it will almost always end with strife.
No one needs to know what every symbol means in order for God to choose you and start you on your spiritual walk. It's all up to God. I just hope this stays on scripture and not any and everyone's interpetation (idol of the heart) of what each and every symbol means. Knowing all the symbols does not guarantee anyone being of the Elect and having a more personal relationship with Christ, which is what our number #1 goal is.
Alright, can someone help me off my soapbox please? It's pretty high up here... :D
Marques
-
If I were to die right this moment, I would be about 95% to 98% sure that I won't be in the 1st ressurection, but I cannot pinpoint for sure what the reason I'd fall short is. I know that I still harbor great anger and disgust toward God for taking my father from me, and for not giving me the desires of my heart(A mate, children, etc). I know that my prayer life is slim and none...mostly none as of late, and the thought of praying or communicating with God still makes my stomach ball up with resentment(This is not an exaggeration). I WANT to love and trust God again, but I can't, I literally can't. I wish there was some way to be sure what one needs to do to make the 1st resurrection. "Enduring to the end" is too vague. Enduring what? The belief that God will save all? Not being in the Babylonian church system?
Truly he is a God who hides himself
-
Hi Decky,
There is a transcript on 'How Hard is Getting Saved?' that might help your understanding on this.
Audios
Getting Saved part 1: http://bible-truths.com/audio/N05 GettingSaved_p1.mp3
Getting Saved part 2: http://bible-truths.com/audio/N05 GettingSaved_p2.mp3
Transcript
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3849.0.html
Here is an email that may point you in the right direction.
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,373.0.html --------
Unfortunately, I cannot even begin to explain the whole plan of God to you in an email, and then explain the process of conversion, overcoming, living a godly life, etc., etc., etc., in an email. It would take me days.
Understand this: It is GOD Who is directing your life, and He caused you to come to our site. There is a lot of information on our site. Unfortunately only a handful of people have ever read all the material on our site. If you will read all the material on our site, most of your questions will be answered.
No one showed me how to repent. No one showed me how to overcome. No one showed me how to conquer sin. God did it in me, for me. There was a time when I too felt helpless and didn't know what to do. I knew there was a God, but I didn't know how to really contact Him, and so basically I learned that it was He who contacted me--in HIS TIME.
I have people asking me to "Please explain the Bible to me, Ray." Or: "Show me how to do God's perfect will so that I will be happy and have purpose in my life."
I can't really do these things. Here is what Paul instructs us: "Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence [Paul was now in prison in Rome, and would never see these Philippians again] , WORK OUT YOUR OWN SALVATION WITH FEAR AND TREMBLING." Why?
"For [because] it is GOD which works in you both to will and to do of His good pleasre" (Phil. 2:12-12).
This sounds like a contradiction to most people. The reason that we "work out our own slavation with fear and trembling" is because it is ALL OF GOD.
We cannot look to our own devices or works--only God can and will save us. You MUST rely on God IN FAITH for all of these things in your life. God will CAUSE you to work all these things out in your life. I will help as much as lies within me, but I cannot give you all the answers in an email, and I have too many email to write long essay type answers. Hope you understand.
God be with you,
Ray
-
1Co 9:24 Do you not know that the runners in a stadium all race, but only one receives the prize? Run in such a way that you may win.
Thats all we can do!
tinknocker
-
If I were to die right this moment, I would be about 95% to 98% sure that I won't be in the 1st ressurection, but I cannot pinpoint for sure what the reason I'd fall short is. I know that I still harbor great anger and disgust toward God for taking my father from me, and for not giving me the desires of my heart(A mate, children, etc). I know that my prayer life is slim and none...mostly none as of late, and the thought of praying or communicating with God still makes my stomach ball up with resentment(This is not an exaggeration). I WANT to love and trust God again, but I can't, I literally can't. I wish there was some way to be sure what one needs to do to make the 1st resurrection. "Enduring to the end" is too vague. Enduring what? The belief that God will save all? Not being in the Babylonian church system?
Truly he is a God who hides himself
Hey decky, i'm sorry for your current situation but i wanted to let you know as well, that you're not alone my dear friend. I'm in a pretty similar situation. Sometimes at night, i don't even pray to God because i'm so ashamed of my conduct during the day that i feel, why would God want to hear from me? I don't deserve to even speak with Him, and so i don't... This has been something i've struggled with for a long time now. I'm just so sick of some of the things i do, i feel so ashamed and so hypocritcal. I feel like my apologies to God have no meaning what so ever. That saying "Don't say sorry if you're going to do it again." It plays over and over in my head when i try to pray to God and i feel like im doing just that. Saying sorry than going right back the next day and doing the wrong thing. Almost like greasy grace, as ray calls it, however i know it's WRONG what i'm doing unlike those who believe grace covers all even the right to continually live in sin.
Well i just wanted to tell you that, so you can know your not the only one who struggles with prayer and being close to God.
Btw, my song in the offtopic disccusion called "Gotta be somebody" you should listen to it decky. Specialy since you mentioned not having a mate, i think you would really enjoy it, and it would lift your spirits.
God be with you dear brother.
In Christ,
Alex
-
I find myself hardly ever praying at all because I figure that if the prayer of a righteous man avails much then there's no point for me to pray.
I am definitely with you guys on this one.
I really feel that God would not want to hear from Me at all.
!
-
Oh my. Time for a little exhortation?
So what if you can only manage 10 seconds of real prayer a day? Don't you know the carnal mind is enmity with God? Don't you think GOD knows that? Do you think YOU are any different just because He's chosen you? Pray your ten seconds, and ask God for ten more seconds. In a week, you're up to a minute. In some over a year, you're up to an hour. Give God enough time to work in you and you're praying without ceasing. Thank Him for ten seconds. He's not given that to most of humanity.
Don't be like a bunch of pentacostal old ladies waiting for the 'feeling' to be right. Wrestle! Tell God what is on your mind. He already knows. You feel guilt? You feel lazy? You feel unmotivated? You feel unworthy? Then let your prayer be that! Get those encumbrances out of the way and behind you.
Are you still holding on to the fantasy that He's already saved you--past tense? Get it straight. He's in the process of saving you. That does more than just imply growth, don't you think? While we were yet sinners, He DIED for us...don't you reckon He will wait for us?
I'm not there yet, but I see a day when the scales tip and what is difficult in the spirit now becomes easier, and what is easy now in the flesh becomes more unthinkably difficult. Then He'll be able to make us stand.
What Father doesn't enjoy wrestling with his kids? He can smack us down without trying. He knows already our weakness against Him. He already knows His strength against us. But if we are to learn, we have to try.
-
Dave,
I do believe you got my attention with that exhortation also.
Martinez,
We are all His Creation, do you think God Called you just so you can shut up?
In Christ we are Made Righteous, so yes; you are called and Made Righteous.
Come Brother, lets reason this one out together. Where you are now is a place
on the journey, the destination is where God Is Taking you in Christ Jesus Now.
Our Father Wants us to Run to Him when we feel lonely, lost or scared so Do It.
George.
I find myself hardly ever praying at all because I figure that if the prayer of a righteous man avails much then there's no point for me to pray.
I am definitely with you guys on this one.
I really feel that God would not want to hear from Me at all.
!
-
Dave, that was awesome, you said, Do you think You are any different just because He`s chosen you? Dave I really need to know something has God chosen me to? thankyou
Ricky
-
That was Powerful Dave!
Brenda
-
Hi Ricky,
Dave I really need to know something has God chosen me to?
You know the parable of the sower and the seed. Here is what Christ says in verse 23.
Mat 13:23 But he who received seed on the good ground is he who hears the word and understands it, who indeed bears fruit and produces: some a hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty."
As you can see from what Jesus says, when you hear the truth and go on to bear fruit in your life, that is the indication that the spirit is indwelling.
Gal 5:22-23 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law.
When you began to overcome things that you never could before, that is the Holy Spirit at work. Then I believe you know you are in the race, one of the 'chosen.' But that is not a guarantee, because you must remain "faithful" to the end.
Rev 17:14 These will make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb will overcome them, for He is Lord of lords and King of kings; and those who are with Him are called, chosen, and faithful.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
-
Ricky, I can't really add to what Kat posted except this:
John10:1 "Truly, truly I tell you, the person who does not enter the sheepfold through the gate, but climbs in by some other way, is a thief and a bandit. 2 The one who enters through the gate is the shepherd of the sheep. 3 It is to him the gatekeeper opens the gate, and it is his voice the sheep hear. He calls his own sheep by name and leads them out.
4 When he has driven out all his own, he goes ahead of them, and the sheep follow him because they recognize his voice.
I can encourage you in this, though. All of us here have overcome what Ray explains is the "Depth of Satan"--the doctrine so opposed to the true purpose and will of God--Hell, eternal torment, eternal separation.
Having overcome this by the Grace (divine influence) of God, there is nothing greater left to overcome. His will be done.
-
Im just a washed up old country drunk, but Im pretty sure the quote " The more the merrier" does not apply here. I think when God says few, I think he means it. As for myself, im striving for the 1st resurrection, but at this point in time it's a long shot......... Real Long.
Love in Christ
Longhorn
ok longhorn, i just gotta say it, you are one of the funniest (spiritual) brothers i know of on the forum (with the exception of dan dan the musicman). you always make me laugh and that is a very good thing. i loved your statement "the more the merrier" not applying to the more of the called. and don't worry about being a washed up old country drunk. Jesus rallied a group of the most pathetic washed up fishermen, a tax collector, and even a pious jew who looked to make sure christians were killed. so a washed up old country drunk is an easy one for Him. anyway, i just wanted to let you know we still love you.
claudia
-
longhorn,
Yes we love you washed up old country drunk; now pass the thunderbird please. ;D
If not ripple will do just fine thank you. ::)
George. :D
-
I appreciate all the responses to my message. A, no, I'm not so much worried about the condition or state of my Dad. I know that from my perspective he's sleeping(but from HIS perspective, he's already awake because he doesn't know that he's sleeping. It does pain me to wonder if God is torturing him for an age in the lake of fire).The anger is plain and simple because God ignored my request. I'll share with you all my biggest lifetime terror, which I can remember back to age 7 when I first learned about death. My biggest fear wasn't losing my own life, it was having to experience losing my parents. I remember when Mom & Dad would come home late after a night out, and I would sit up crying all night for thinking that something happened to them, and I was inconsolable(Much to the dismay of my babysitter). I never loss that fear when I became an adult, and so I was never prepared for it, even though it looked like God was NOT going to heal Dad. He took my Dad way too young. He had just retired from his career and was so looking forward to spending his days enjoying his lifestyle that he worked so darned hard for for almost 40 years.
I guess I never think about whether the answer is justified. I'm really not concerned about that. All I know is that it's there, and try as hard as I might, I cannot get rid of it. I'm sure you all recall the game(I think it's called "trust")where you fall back in blind faith while someone stands behind you and vows to catch you before you land on the ground. Well, if that person fails to catch you, and you fall to the ground and break your tailbone or something else, no matter how many times that person says,"Try it again, I'll CATCH you this time," something in you will not let yourself trust that person again, and rightfully so. Well, that's how I feel about God. Sometimes I hate the very thought of him, and I cannot help it.
I will try to encourage myself with all the messages and the links to Ray's papers on the subject. I do appreciate knowing that I'm not alone, because I truly feel that way sometimes, which I'm sure exacerbates my feelings. Thank you all, thank you very much.
Added note: I FINALLY have a weekend off(First time since early August!)and I can devote some time to studying more and hopefully getting out of this rut. I've missed being in the Word. Finally I should be able to complete the Nashville Conference material!
-
Im just a washed up old country drunk, but Im pretty sure the quote " The more the merrier" does not apply here. I think when God says few, I think he means it. As for myself, im striving for the 1st resurrection, but at this point in time it's a long shot......... Real Long.
Love in Christ
Longhorn
Keep in mind Longhorn, that God is the one doing the work.
God can make a diamond from a piece of coal.
God is calling the base and the common among the people so that He can show what He can do with very little. As the Bible tells us:
"that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called: . . . That no flesh should glory in His presence" (I Corinthians 1:26,29).
So, you and I have as good a chance as anyone else, if God wills it.
indianabob
-
Hope i do not create a firestorm with this but: God does not leave anything to chance, Jesus
said (I have kept All the ones you gave Me except for the son of Perdition). I believe
this Scripture is addressing the overcoming of the beast in us by the (Blood Of The Lamb).
Joh_17:12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest
me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be
fulfilled.
Phi_1:28 And in nothing terrified by your adversaries: which is to them an evident token of
perdition, but to you of salvation, and that of God.
George.
Im just a washed up old country drunk, but Im pretty sure the quote " The more the merrier" does not apply here. I think when God says few, I think he means it. As for myself, im striving for the 1st resurrection, but at this point in time it's a long shot......... Real Long.
Love in Christ
Longhorn
Keep in mind Longhorn, that God is the one doing the work.
God can make a diamond from a piece of coal.
God is calling the base and the common among the people so that He can show what He can do with very little. As the Bible tells us:
"that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called: . . . That no flesh should glory in His presence" (I Corinthians 1:26,29).
So, you and I have as good a chance as anyone else, if God wills it.
indianabob
-
Decky, I feel you pain. Last night I was reading Ecclesiastes. I read the whole chapter. To sum it up all of this life is meaningless. We rejoice at a birth when the Bible says we should rejoice at a death. There is not promises in this dark world we live in of even living to enjoy this world.
However, we do have a promise while here of a World we cannot even imagine.
Our next life will have meaning. We, all will share in that life cause he loves us and gave his life up. This is the meaning of our life that we suffer like him and if we are chosen we will be the first fruits.
But, if not we will be in the great harvest.
Try and read that chapter if you can. I had a neice, who never had a father to raise her. My father, became her father. She was so angry. When, in all reality he suffered from time he was 47 till he died at 75. He had cheated death many times. I am convinced that he let him live for her.
I know he took your Father young. I know you are trying to deal with the pain.
I belive God will give you the Victory . I will keep you in my prayers.
Although, He was my Father to it pained me more for her. She struggled for quite a while. It even hurts her to talk about him. So, yes I can feel the pain cause just hearing you talk of it makes me cry for you .
In His Love,
Marlene
-
Marlene,
Thank you thank you thank you for your message and for your prayers. You know, sometimes when I am in my moments of clarity(Very few and far between)I think about how if my Dad had passed away 5 years ago, a year before I came to the knowledge of the truth about hell, I would probably have suffered a nervous breakdown, or worse. This is what makes me wonder how on earth anyone could have any peace if they really believed that someone whom they loved so dearly was suffering excruciating and eternal pain in a bottomless pit of literal fire with immortal worms eating their flesh. I guess I can be thankful for the fact that God took my Dad when he did, in that his family was at his bedside when he took his last breath. Hey you all, you just don't know how much this is hurting me. I'm welling up with tears now as I type this. I miss him so much, sometimes I cry out for God to just take my life. I know I need to go on, but it's been almost 10 months since Dad passed away, and it still hurts like hell.
-
Marlene,
Thank you thank you thank you for your message and for your prayers. You know, sometimes when I am in my moments of clarity(Very few and far between)I think about how if my Dad had passed away 5 years ago, a year before I came to the knowledge of the truth about hell, I would probably have suffered a nervous breakdown, or worse. This is what makes me wonder how on earth anyone could have any peace if they really believed that someone whom they loved so dearly was suffering excruciating and eternal pain in a bottomless pit of literal fire with immortal worms eating their flesh. I guess I can be thankful for the fact that God took my Dad when he did, in that his family was at his bedside when he took his last breath. Hey you all, you just don't know how much this is hurting me. I'm welling up with tears now as I type this. I miss him so much, sometimes I cry out for God to just take my life. I know I need to go on, but it's been almost 10 months since Dad passed away, and it still hurts like hell.
I'm sorry Decky...my heart goes out to you. I feel in agony just thinking what it will be like if & when my parents pass. I'm sorry for your loss.
Marques
-
Decky, I just want to say something more to you. Before, my Father passed we had to put him in a nursing home. He did not know me for three years ,but he would call my husband by his name. Nov. I went down to him at the nursing home just me and my husband. I took him crackers and juice. Cause he loved that. I asked him if he wanted them opened up. He said, yes Marlene. In Dec we got the call that they were taking him into the hospital and it did not look as if he would make it through the night. When, we got there he knew all of us including me and told us all he loved us. It was Dec. 20th now I am not into the material things of Christmas, but I knew I had a family who always made sure my needs were met. Well, I look as his death as a gift from God that he knew me before he died.
Dear, you are grieving and no one can tell you when it will end. It will lessen for you. I grieved for him quite a while. One night I dreamed that my father was in a place where there was a never ending table with all kinds of fruits and things. But, my father looked like I remember him when he was young and healthy. This place was never ending. I imagine God let me see something that my carnal mind could only imagine, but how healthy he looked was what made me happy
The grieving left then. I still miss him and I will never forget him.
Your father is only sleeping. But, he does not have dreams. But, when the Lord raises us from the dead what Ray means is it will be just like waking up after we have gone to sleep. Then the great time of meeting the Lord begins and all pain and tears and sorrow and death is gone. God, gave you the believe of no Hell, cause he knew you may have a nervous break down. But, have hope and fix your eyes upon him. He will help your grieve. Again, I have been in your place.
God will help you to get over your anger. He will take away the pain. He suffered all we have come across.
In His Love,
Marlene
Decky if ever you what to PM me at anytime and leave me a message. I would be more than happy to be there for you .
-
If I were to die right this moment, I would be about 95% to 98% sure that I won't be in the 1st ressurection, but I cannot pinpoint for sure what the reason I'd fall short is. I know that I still harbor great anger and disgust toward God for taking my father from me, and for not giving me the desires of my heart(A mate, children, etc). I know that my prayer life is slim and none...mostly none as of late, and the thought of praying or communicating with God still makes my stomach ball up with resentment(This is not an exaggeration). I WANT to love and trust God again, but I can't, I literally can't. I wish there was some way to be sure what one needs to do to make the 1st resurrection. "Enduring to the end" is too vague. Enduring what? The belief that God will save all? Not being in the Babylonian church system?
Truly he is a God who hides himself
Not sure how I missed this but WOW...Decky your honesty is awesome. In a world of people who think they know it all and those who try to hide true feelings and such, this is a breath of fresh air. I hope you see what I am saying, I'm not happy for you in your situation but I don't run across many people like this. Most are telling me over and over how they love God and blah blah blah...maybe some do, but I'm very skeptical that all these people everywhere are just so content and happy with God and their life. I hope you get blessed beyond measure.
Jeff
-
Jeff, Until God took me from the believe in Hell. I only thought I loved him. I had no idea I didn't even know him. He had took me through many trials in my life .I am 54 years and he patiently led me in a journey all my life that after all these years led me to truth. I had fallen into a sin the same sin that someone else who heard me did. When, I finally repented I could not belive he would forgive me. One, I believed I desearved Hell. One night out of desperation and hating hell I said "Why don't you let me die right now. " Then it went from that to me begging him for his truth. That night I typed in Hell and now that is all part of the journey. I was blind. Yes, you are right we can think we love him. But, gosh darn I was mad at him for something he didn't even create. That is Hell. He freed me from all kinds of sins I struggled with. Like unforgiving, like Hell, like
free will. You are right we can say we love him, but do we even know him.
Yes, I believe he is taking Decky on his journey and many good things will come from all of this.
I will tell you I have never prayed and knew God, or Loved him like I do now. I see him as he truely is. He is in control even if circumstance don't look like it.
We all have a Journey and yes we will be taught to love like him. Not just lip service.
In His Love.
Marlene
Yes, I agree we say we love him, but do we even know him.
-
Dave, that's simply one of the best and one of the most directional posts I've read in a very long time.
Simply splendid.
Best.
A.
i must agree 100% with you A. regarding dave in tenn post. kudos dave. your posts are starting to blow me away.
claudia
-
Marlene,
Thank you thank you thank you for your message and for your prayers. You know, sometimes when I am in my moments of clarity(Very few and far between)I think about how if my Dad had passed away 5 years ago, a year before I came to the knowledge of the truth about hell, I would probably have suffered a nervous breakdown, or worse. This is what makes me wonder how on earth anyone could have any peace if they really believed that someone whom they loved so dearly was suffering excruciating and eternal pain in a bottomless pit of literal fire with immortal worms eating their flesh. I guess I can be thankful for the fact that God took my Dad when he did, in that his family was at his bedside when he took his last breath. Hey you all, you just don't know how much this is hurting me. I'm welling up with tears now as I type this. I miss him so much, sometimes I cry out for God to just take my life. I know I need to go on, but it's been almost 10 months since Dad passed away, and it still hurts like hell.
dear decky,
almost 10 mths is still so very early when it comes to loosing any loved one to death, ESPECIALLY, if the loved one is your dad. your pain and anquish are still so very raw. it will take time, love from family/friends, and the love of your first Father to heal that open wound in your heart and in your life. my own daddy passed away unexpectedly 4 yrs ago. my momma found him dead on the bathroom floor when she came home from walmart. he was 80 yrs old. my momma was 77 yrs old when daddy died. they had been together since my momma was 14 yrs. and my daddy was 17 yrs. the wound in my family's hearts is just know starting to bear a scar. we would have never been able to heal with the love of family and the love of our Father in heaven. i/we too went through the anger part of the healing process. it is something most humans go through when death touches the lives of their most cherished loved ones. i pray that you will come to understand that God has lead you to this forum to help you heal. He knows how much you hurt. He understands your heart better than you will ever begin to understand on this side of death. i too will pray for your healing, as well as for your other family members. loosing your daddy never gets easy, but it does get better.
love in Christ,
claudia