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=> General Discussions => Topic started by: hillsbororiver on March 15, 2007, 10:00:37 AM
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We cover so many topics here, from prayer to God's plan and purpose, why He made us the way He did, as well as the difference between the called and chosen and what exactly it is that makes His elect special or "peculiar."
Psalm 119 seems to address so many of the these topics (as do so many other scriptures), I selected just a few of the 176 verses in this Chapter but reading the whole thing is just an amazing insight into the experiences in the life of a believer, one who seeks His Wisdom constantly, who walks with the Lord speaking with Him throughout the day as one would with a beloved Mentor/Provider.
The opening up of my eyes to the relevance of the Old Testament as an outline of the life of a believer throughout the ages has been a mighty find in the treasure chest that our Lord has provided through the teachings on Bible Truths. My life has not been the same, nor do I have any desire to go back to the old ways of living and thinking, I only look forward to the day when we all are fully immersed in His Spirit.
Psa 119:2 Blessed are they that keep his testimonies, and that seek him with the whole heart.
Psa 119:4 Thou hast commanded us to keep thy precepts diligently.
Psa 119:5 O that my ways were directed to keep thy statutes!
Psa 119:6 Then shall I not be ashamed, when I have respect unto all thy commandments.
Psa 119:12 Blessed art thou, O LORD: teach me thy statutes.
Psa 119:15 I will meditate in thy precepts, and have respect unto thy ways.
Psa 119:18 Open thou mine eyes, that I may behold wondrous things out of thy law.
Psa 119:19 I am a stranger in the earth: hide not thy commandments from me.
Psa 119:73 Thy hands have made me and fashioned me: give me understanding, that I may that I may learn thy commandments.
Joh 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
His Peace and Wisdom to you,
Joe
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Thanks for those awesome scriptures Joe. This IS the cry of my heart day after day. It seems like torment some days because I just want to be there and it seems to just be taking so long. I know God has the perfect time table for each one of us it is just hard to wait sometimes. The difference is when I read this Psalm before I knew the truths God has revealed to me I would get so discouraged thinking...well am I really a Christian...am I really saved (I used to ask this all the time). Now however I read that Psalm and it gives me hope that God has set my heart to seek Him and His ways and I KNOW that I will be part of the ALL in ALL one day. Praise God!
Lori :)
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Hi LoriMarie,
Thank you for your response. I know for me patience is not a natural personality trait, He has granted me much more than I ever had but this is still a work in progress.
As a child I would be crushed when I was told "wait until next week," shattered when I was told to "wait until next month," totally devastated when told "maybe next year." Now well into middle age if I have to wait a year for something I know it will be right around the corner, a few heartbeats away.
He is still in the process of creating His chosen for a mighty ministry the world has not even imagined, yes they are inwardly groaning for this manifestation but do not know what they are in need of or certainly how it will come about. This experience in the flesh I am quite sure will seem like a blink of an eye when He gives His children the full payment of His promise. All the experiences, trials, tribulations and suffering will be put into perspective when His Glory is shared with His elect, it will appear small, almost insignificant in comparison.
This is what Paul is speaking of here;
Hebrews 10
35Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompence of reward.
36For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.
37For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry.
38Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.
39But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.
Peter speaks of His promises;
2 Peter 1
1Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:
2Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,
3According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
4Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
His Peace to you Sister,
Joe
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Hi Joe,
These are beautiful scriptures. Whenever I go throught a difficult time, I turn to either Job or to the psalms.
I love what you said about walking with the Lord throughout the day and speaking with him as one would with a beloved Mentor/Provider. The writer of this psalm must have done just that, knowing and having faith that God could indeed open his eyes to see wonderous things. It is the very same for me, my prayer is that God would show me wonderous things, true things, more of Him.
Even in difficult times. Actually especially in difficult times, we cling to God like we would never do otherwise. And then in these times, God shows us and teaches us wonderous things that we would never otherwise see. It's in times of despair that we fully turn to God and let Him deal with us as He would, and then we learn His righteousness.
I'm wondering about something.
Psalm 119:18 Open thou mine eyes, that I may behold wonderous things out of thy law.
What law is the writer talking about? Is it the 613 laws of the old testament? What wonderous things would he see in the OT law?
The law of the OT defines sin.
2 Cor. 3:7 says the law is the ministry of death, but was glorious. I think I know what this means in a way, because the law was given by God and served a function in showing the people of Israel the ways of God. In that way it was glorious.
Also, Hebrews 10:1 says that the law was a shadow of good things to come and not the very image of the things. So, would the writer of Psalms 119:18 see this? Would he see this law as a shadow and yearn for more, knowing that there was more? How would he know this?
Thank you,
Ursula
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Joe...thanks for the encouraging scriptures. I too struggle with patience. In many ways.
I love having true brothers and sisters in Christ to fellowship with here.
Ursula..that is a great question about the law. I am looking forward to the answer.
Lori :)
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Thanks for those awesome scriptures Joe. This IS the cry of my heart day after day. It seems like torment some days because I just want to be there and it seems to just be taking so long. I know God has the perfect time table for each one of us it is just hard to wait sometimes. The difference is when I read this Psalm before I knew the truths God has revealed to me I would get so discouraged thinking...well am I really a Christian...am I really saved (I used to ask this all the time). Now however I read that Psalm and it gives me hope that God has set my heart to seek Him and His ways and I KNOW that I will be part of the ALL in ALL one day. Praise God!
Lori :)
Hi LoriMarie I just wanted to say I understand, I have felt the same.
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I'm wondering about something.
Psalm 119:18 Open thou mine eyes, that I may behold wonderous things out of thy law.
What law is the writer talking about? Is it the 613 laws of the old testament? What wonderous things would he see in the OT law?
The law of the OT defines sin.
2 Cor. 3:7 says the law is the ministry of death, but was glorious. I think I know what this means in a way, because the law was given by God and served a function in showing the people of Israel the ways of God. In that way it was glorious.
Also, Hebrews 10:1 says that the law was a shadow of good things to come and not the very image of the things. So, would the writer of Psalms 119:18 see this? Would he see this law as a shadow and yearn for more, knowing that there was more? How would he know this?
Thank you,
Ursula
Hi Ursula,
You pretty much answered your own question, law, commandments, word, etc. can almost be used interchangably and in this instance we can read "precept" in place of law as that might better describe what the writer was attempting to communicate.
Also, in some uses (according to Strong's) "moral imperitives" would be an apt definition. The first 5 books of scripture (Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers & Deuteronomy) including the 10 Commandments would be the proper way of understanding this verse.
Thank you for your thoughtful response.
His Peace and Wisdom to you,
Joe
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Also, Hebrews 10:1 says that the law was a shadow of good things to come and not the very image of the things. So, would the writer of Psalms 119:18 see this? Would he see this law as a shadow and yearn for more, knowing that there was more? How would he know this?
Hello again Ursula,
As to your second question it was the Spirit of Christ that revealed these spiritual truths to the Prophets (for our edification) check out the following, especially verses 10 & 11.
1 Peter 1
1Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,
2Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
4To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
5Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
6Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a season, if need be, ye are in heaviness through manifold temptations:
7That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:
8Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory:
9Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.
10Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:
11Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.
12Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.
13Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;
His Peace and Wisdom to you,
Joe
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My goodness, Joe, I don't think I ever saw that scripture, 1 Peter 1:2, or if I did it didn't resonate with me at the time.
How amazing that the spirit of Christ would be in the prophets, which thinking about it now, of course it would be.
I also didn't realize that the "law" could be used interchangably with the 'word".
Thank you very much for your response.
Ursula.
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Hi Joe,
Thanks for this great thread! Last summer, a friend and I attempted to memorize this Psalm! I think she got a lot further than I did since she is a whiz at memorizing scripture. I may not have it memorized it but I did write the whole thing out on cue cards and to this day I will pull them out and read them on occasion when walking my dogs.
I have to say I can totally relate to what LoriMarie said:
This IS the cry of my heart day after day. It seems like torment some days because I just want to be there and it seems to just be taking so long. I know God has the perfect time table for each one of us it is just hard to wait sometimes. The difference is when I read this Psalm before I knew the truths God has revealed to me I would get so discouraged thinking...well am I really a Christian...am I really saved (I used to ask this all the time). Now however I read that Psalm and it gives me hope that God has set my heart to seek Him and His ways and I KNOW that I will be part of the ALL in ALL one day. Praise God!
Psalms 119:81-83 NLT
81 I faint with longing for your salvation;
but I have put my hope in your word.
82 My eyes are straining to see your promises come true.
When will you comfort me?
83 I am shriveled like a wineskin in the smoke, exhausted with waiting.
But I cling to your principles and obey them.
Well, at least I try to obey his principles. This Psalm used to intimidate me because the writer keeps repeating how he obeys and keeps all the commandments, decrees, laws etc. and refuses to do evil, and I know I am FAR from being able to claim this. But at least now I have peace knowing everything is in God's hands.
Joe, what you said here:
He is still in the process of creating His chosen for a mighty ministry the world has not even imagined, yes they are inwardly groaning for this manifestation but do not know what they are in need of or certainly how it will come about. This experience in the flesh I am quite sure will seem like a blink of an eye when He gives His children the full payment of His promise. All the experiences, trials, tribulations and suffering will be put into perspective when His Glory is shared with His elect, it will appear small, almost insignificant in comparison.
I was just speaking to a friend yesterday about this very idea. Some days when I am weary from the struggle I try to put it all in perspective remembering this:
James 4:14 ESV
14 What is your life? For you are a mist that appears for a little time and then vanishes.
This life seems so dramatic and intense but I know one day it will seem like a drop in the bucket compared to the promises that await us.
Peace,
Diana
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Well, at least I try to obey his principles. This Psalm used to intimidate me because the writer keeps repeating how he obeys and keeps all the commandments, decrees, laws etc. and refuses to do evil, and I know I am FAR from being able to claim this. But at least now I have peace knowing everything is in God's hands.
Diana,
The ironic almost funny truth of the matter is that the author of Psalms (David in this case) was not really writing of himself, but of you, this is being written about His chosen, all of the elect!
Hebrews 11
32And what shall I more say? for the time would fail me to tell of Gedeon, and of Barak, and of Samson, and of Jephthae; of David also, and Samuel, and of the prophets:
33Who through faith subdued kingdoms, wrought righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions.
34Quenched the violence of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, out of weakness were made strong, waxed valiant in fight, turned to flight the armies of the aliens.
35Women received their dead raised to life again: and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection:
36And others had trial of cruel mockings and scourgings, yea, moreover of bonds and imprisonment:
37They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented;
38(Of whom the world was not worthy:) they wandered in deserts, and in mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth.
39And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:
40God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.
Ephesians 1
1Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:
2Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.
3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
4According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
6To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
7In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
8Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence;
9Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:
10That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:
11In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
12That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
13In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
14Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
15Wherefore I also, after I heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus, and love unto all the saints,
16Cease not to give thanks for you, making mention of you in my prayers;
17That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:
18The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,
19And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,
20Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,
21Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:
22And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,
23Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.
Revelation 1
5And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
6And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.
I have said this many times recently, the articles on Bible Truths have opened up the OT in ways I never dreamed of, Ray's writings have been like a treasure map.
Before these things were unlocked all the OT scriptures I had read and reread made little to no sense, I could have been reading a Chinese newspaper for all I was able to understand.
His Peace and Wisdom to you,
Joe
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My goodness, Joe, I don't think I ever saw that scripture, 1 Peter 1:2, or if I did it didn't resonate with me at the time.
How amazing that the spirit of Christ would be in the prophets, which thinking about it now, of course it would be.
I also didn't realize that the "law" could be used interchangably with the 'word".
Thank you very much for your response.
Ursula.
Ursula,
You are very welcome, so many times I have felt the same way, a scripture I have read or passed over numerous times suddenly coming alive and shining brightly, it is an awesome thing.
His Peace and Wisdom to you,
Joe
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Ursula writes, "Even in difficult times. Actually especially in difficult times, we cling to God like we would never do otherwise. And then in these times, God shows us and teaches us wonderous things that we would never otherwise see. It's in times of despair that we fully turn to God and let Him deal with us as He would, and then we learn His righteousness."
This is so true. God really wants us to turn to Him and be totally dependent on Him. So He uses the physical to bring us to the spiritual. He uses our health, or our loved ones health, financial problems, our children or grandchildren, our relatives, our jobs or lack of a job....anything that will bring us to our kness and humble us before Him. Despair is a terrible thing to us, but it is a tool in the hands of the Potter.
I wonder, that if this kind of physical despair that yields the peaceable fruit of righteosness, will one day lead us to the point where we are that desperate in the spirit that we will need Him just as much? In other words, the physical will not bother us as much as the spiritual. That we become so one with Him in spirit that all we care for are spiritual things. I believe God is doing this in us. This is God creating, or transforming us into His image; right here on this earth. I never thought that this could be possible....but I do now.
In Him,
Dwight
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Dwight and Ursula, I too agree that it is mans tendancy to call on God and focus on him more deeply in times of need. Dwight what you said regarding: "He uses our health, or our loved ones health, financial problems, our children or grandchildren, our relatives, our jobs or lack of a job....anything that will bring us to our kness and humble us before Him. Despair is a terrible thing to us, but it is a tool in the hands of the Potter." But this is so sad :(
Sad, because even after all that he has done for us we only come to him when we want something. I do not believe for a second that God does not Want us to like wise come to him in our times of happiness and joy. Surely God rejoices when hears prayers of thanks, when one has seen a glorious Sunrise or when one smells coffee in the morning and marvel at the aroma as well as the air that carried it.
I have struggled with this line of thought for such a long time, of not being part of this world, for Christ said:
Jhn 15:19 If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.
But I am sure that Christ did not mean that "world" as in "Creation" but rather as "carnal man." Creation as in Earth, our universe, etc (not carnal self-centered mans ideals) is for our benefit. :)
Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, [even] his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
I have found God so easy to find in Creation. I can honestly say that he has spoken to me and transformed me more while out in what he has made, like riding though a vast green valley, or standing on the edge of stream, even staring up at a crystal night sky, than I have ever experienced in study. NOT that I am saying that I have not gained from study, but words only (hopefully) convey intent. It is God who grants understanding and I have found without fail that when I remove myself fromt the "world of carnal man" and walk the trails with the one who made it all, is when he most often speaks to me.
2Ti 2:7 Consider what I say; and the Lord give thee understanding in all things.
Ray has stated that the whole Bible is symblolic (a parable) of higher meaning. Who here would not agree that the Creation (as mind boggling as it is) is just a foreshadow of what is to come. I believe and know to the depths of my being, that I have never and will never find the ideals of "carnal man" anywhere in God's creation. It is a foreign concept. :)
As we are told that: " the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, [even] his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:" I know that I for one am removing myself increasingly away from the carnal lifestyle of man and instead surrounding myself in Creation the window to God.
So before I completely forget the point I was trying to make; I do not believe that one has to be at the pit of despair in order to find God. I know God uses times such as these to draw people near him, but perhaps because they have not been able to "find" him anywhere else. :)
Dwight, these are truths that have been revealed to me by God. Comments are very welcome.
Your brother in Christ,
Darren
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I also believe that we can should and will see God in all the beautiful and wondrous things He has crafted in this physical realm as they shadow the true wonders of His coming spiritual Kingdom, but I don't know how many actually do until they have had their carnal heart broken down into a fine powder.
From personal experience I had gotten to the point where I only looked to God when I was in some kind of mess, since He broke me down and granted me His grace with faith I really do see everything as having His signature on it. It has totally changed my perspective when observing all that surrounds me.
Does anyone come to God with a humble heart if they have not lost someone dear to them, or suffered illness, lost something critical like a house, a job, their savings?
I don't believe the Lord is speaking exclusively to the very rich in goods and money but really to those who are self satisfied and complacent.
Luk 18:25 For it is easier for a camel to go through a needle's eye, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.
Who are the ones to be comforted by and drawn to His Spirit?
Matthew 5
2And he opened his mouth, and taught them, saying,
3Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
4Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted.
5Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.
6Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.
7Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.
8Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.
9Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.
10Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
His Peace & Wisdom to you,
Joe
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Joe and Darren,
I really believe that God is taking all of us here from the physical to the spiritual. All that happens to us outwardly is to make us into His image. Sometimes, it's really hard to see this, but the more that we are one with Him, and each other, the more we will be able to see this incredible transformation. We are as He is, so we must go through what He went through...the servant is no greater than his Lord. He suffered...we must suffer... He was crucified....we must be crucified....He died.....we must die.....He was resurrected....we must be resurrected.....He ascended into heaven.....we must ascend with Him. Praise God that He is our life.
In Him,
Dwight
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I was just talking to some relatives the other day that are so upset with the world situation. As I was listening to them complain about everything - It occurred to me that they are so busy in the world, they do not even see the wondrous creation all around them. I too commune with God during a beautiful sunset, a puffy clouded blue sky day, swimming in the ocean, admiring pretty flowers in a garden, standing on a mountain, and so on.........and on. I simply am in awe of it all.
Dwight,
Yes, we are to follow Jesus. I for one am really looking forward ecspecially to that acsension part!!! And I do believe God is creating us in his image in the here and now. Little by little. How glorious that is.
Love to you all, Lisa
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I love to see God in nature also. I believe that God uses everything in the physical creation as types or symbols for what is spiritual.
We see the beauty of a sunset or the magnificence of a flower and see God's glory. We breathe in fresh air and can feel the freshness of the presence of God.
We get bitten by a mosquito, and are reminded of the effects of sin in our lives. OK, this might not feel too good, but it's part of God's creation too. The reason I mention mosquito's is because I live in the mosquito capital of Ontario, and I've had years to ponder the meaning of these little creatures. When I step out to gather some herbs in the summer, I have to make a run for it, because I get swarmed. Outside my window at night, there is a pretty constant droning noise. These guys are relentless. Anyway...
I am presently studying in the book of Revelation and at the moment I'm in Rev. 3:15-16. "I know your works, that you are niether cold nor hot. I could wish you were cold or hot. So then, because you are lukewarm and neither cold nor hot, I will spew you out of My mouth." This is part of the message to the Laodiceans.
Hot is a place where God wants His people to be. God is pleased when we are on fire for Him, when we see Him in all His creation, when we are in a state of intense fervour, when our hearts are raised up to him and we want nothing more than more of Him and His purpose in our lives. We see him in the beauty of His creation.
To be lukewarm is to lack this intense fervour, to lack the love and commitment that He desires from us; there is no self-denial, no seeking after Christ, and there is total satisfaction in being in this state of lukewarmness, to enjoy the feeling of needing nothing and being entirely content with ourselves.
What about cold? I always thought that "cold" represented being in a state of corruption and sin.
However, this can't be so because He says "I would you were cold or hot" God would not wish us to be in a state of sin or unbelief.
So, God also wants His people to be cold. To be cold is to be in a state of desolation, trial, testing, purging. It is a place where God strips us of our self-assurance and self-reliance, a place of bleakness where we feel the very ground we are walking on is giving way and there is nothing and no one that can help us. It is the place where you don't even feel God's presence and it feels like He has abandoned you and all you have is your faith without the warm feelings.
God wants us to be hot or cold. I think His elect are in one of these states at different times in their walk with Christ.
If you are hot right now, rejoice! What a great place to be. Enjoy His presence! Follow Him diligently and be blessed abundantly.
If you are in that cold place, take heart. You are still in His presence, and it is God's hand that is leading you through the valley of the shadow of death. He is pruning you and developing His nature in you in this desolate place, and this is absolutely necessary in your walk because you are learning lessons that you could not learn any other way.
I think people in this forum are in different places in their walk with God.
Dwight, you are going through a difficult time. I feel for you.
You said "God really wants us to turn to Him and be totally dependent on Him. So He uses the physical to bring us to the spiritual. He uses our health, or our loved ones health, financial problems, our children or grandchildren, our relatives, our jobs or lack of a job....anything that w ill bring us to our kness and humble us before Him. Despair is a terrible thing to us, but it is a tool in the hands of the Potter."
I so agree with you.
Darren, you said, "I do not believe for a second that God does not Want us to like wise come to him in our times of happiness and joy. Surely God rejoices when hears prayers of thanks, when one has seen a glorious Sunrise or when one smells coffee in the morning and marvel at the aroma as well as the air that carried it."
I totally agree with you too.
Hot and Cold. Both are pleasing to God.
Sincerely,
Ursula
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Ursula how beautiful.
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Ursula,
I agree with Gena, that was beautiful. Lukewarm is comfortable; hot or cold is not. I never saw cold the way you put it, but it witnesses to my spirit, it reminds me of when Jesus said, I am not come to bring peace but a sword. Peace is comfortable but a sword (His word) divides between soul and spirit. We need God's word to seperate our carnal from our spiritual, we cannot serve two masters. Oh how the scriptures are clear when we see them with our spiritual eyes.
Your brother,
Dwight
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Ursula
Thank you for sharing your insights. They do add and build up our faith and knowledge of God. I too had not seen that lukewarm is a carnal comfort zone that gives no glory to God or thanks or appreciation and inspires no need or desire for Him. Your thoughts are edifying and encouraging at the same time Ursula...both hot and cold! 8) ;D
Peace to you sister
Arcturus :)
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Ursula,
Thank you for sharing that. It was really beautiful.
Lori :)
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As I have written many times in the past this opening up of the OT in regard to the spiritual journey of those chosen to be firstfruits of His Kingdom is nothing short of amazing. The old history of the physical nation of Israel is an even more powerful outline of the history and experiences of the elect.
Read what Moses wrote here in Deuteronomy and meditate on the spiritual message, it is incredible!
Deuteronomy 4
1Now therefore hearken, O Israel, unto the statutes and unto the judgments, which I teach you, for to do them, that ye may live, and go in and possess the land which the LORD God of your fathers giveth you.
2Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.
3Your eyes have seen what the LORD did because of Baalpeor: for all the men that followed Baalpeor, the LORD thy God hath destroyed them from among you.
4But ye that did cleave unto the LORD your God are alive every one of you this day.
5Behold, I have taught you statutes and judgments, even as the LORD my God commanded me, that ye should do so in the land whither ye go to possess it.
6Keep therefore and do them; for this is your wisdom and your understanding in the sight of the nations, which shall hear all these statutes, and say, Surely this great nation is a wise and understanding people.
7For what nation is there so great, who hath God so nigh unto them, as the LORD our God is in all things that we call upon him for?
8And what nation is there so great, that hath statutes and judgments so righteous as all this law, which I set before you this day?
9Only take heed to thyself, and keep thy soul diligently, lest thou forget the things which thine eyes have seen, and lest they depart from thy heart all the days of thy life: but teach them thy sons, and thy sons' sons;
10Specially the day that thou stoodest before the LORD thy God in Horeb, when the LORD said unto me, Gather me the people together, and I will make them hear my words, that they may learn to fear me all the days that they shall live upon the earth, and that they may teach their children.
11And ye came near and stood under the mountain; and the mountain burned with fire unto the midst of heaven, with darkness, clouds, and thick darkness.
12And the LORD spake unto you out of the midst of the fire: ye heard the voice of the words, but saw no similitude; only ye heard a voice.
13And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, even ten commandments; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone.
14And the LORD commanded me at that time to teach you statutes and judgments, that ye might do them in the land whither ye go over to possess it.
15Take ye therefore good heed unto yourselves; for ye saw no manner of similitude on the day that the LORD spake unto you in Horeb out of the midst of the fire:
16Lest ye corrupt yourselves, and make you a graven image, the similitude of any figure, the likeness of male or female,
17The likeness of any beast that is on the earth, the likeness of any winged fowl that flieth in the air,
18The likeness of any thing that creepeth on the ground, the likeness of any fish that is in the waters beneath the earth:
19And lest thou lift up thine eyes unto heaven, and when thou seest the sun, and the moon, and the stars, even all the host of heaven, shouldest be driven to worship them, and serve them, which the LORD thy God hath divided unto all nations under the whole heaven.
20But the LORD hath taken you, and brought you forth out of the iron furnace, even out of Egypt, to be unto him a people of inheritance, as ye are this day.
21Furthermore the LORD was angry with me for your sakes, and sware that I should not go over Jordan, and that I should not go in unto that good land, which the LORD thy God giveth thee for an inheritance:
22But I must die in this land, I must not go over Jordan: but ye shall go over, and possess that good land.
23Take heed unto yourselves, lest ye forget the covenant of the LORD your God, which he made with you, and make you a graven image, or the likeness of any thing, which the LORD thy God hath forbidden thee.
24For the LORD thy God is a consuming fire, even a jealous God.
25When thou shalt beget children, and children's children, and ye shall have remained long in the land, and shall corrupt yourselves, and make a graven image, or the likeness of any thing, and shall do evil in the sight of the LORD thy God, to provoke him to anger:
26I call heaven and earth to witness against you this day, that ye shall soon utterly perish from off the land whereunto ye go over Jordan to possess it; ye shall not prolong your days upon it, but shall utterly be destroyed.
27And the LORD shall scatter you among the nations, and ye shall be left few in number among the heathen, whither the LORD shall lead you.
28And there ye shall serve gods, the work of men's hands, wood and stone, which neither see, nor hear, nor eat, nor smell.
29But if from thence thou shalt seek the LORD thy God, thou shalt find him, if thou seek him with all thy heart and with all thy soul.
30When thou art in tribulation, and all these things are come upon thee, even in the latter days, if thou turn to the LORD thy God, and shalt be obedient unto his voice;
31(For the LORD thy God is a merciful God;) he will not forsake thee, neither destroy thee, nor forget the covenant of thy fathers which he sware unto them.
32For ask now of the days that are past, which were before thee, since the day that God created man upon the earth, and ask from the one side of heaven unto the other, whether there hath been any such thing as this great thing is, or hath been heard like it?
33Did ever people hear the voice of God speaking out of the midst of the fire, as thou hast heard, and live?
34Or hath God assayed to go and take him a nation from the midst of another nation, by temptations, by signs, and by wonders, and by war, and by a mighty hand, and by a stretched out arm, and by great terrors, according to all that the LORD your God did for you in Egypt before your eyes?
35Unto thee it was shewed, that thou mightest know that the LORD he is God; there is none else beside him.
36Out of heaven he made thee to hear his voice, that he might instruct thee: and upon earth he shewed thee his great fire; and thou heardest his words out of the midst of the fire.
37And because he loved thy fathers, therefore he chose their seed after them, and brought thee out in his sight with his mighty power out of Egypt;
38To drive out nations from before thee greater and mightier than thou art, to bring thee in, to give thee their land for an inheritance, as it is this day.
39Know therefore this day, and consider it in thine heart, that the LORD he is God in heaven above, and upon the earth beneath: there is none else.
40Thou shalt keep therefore his statutes, and his commandments, which I command thee this day, that it may go well with thee, and with thy children after thee, and that thou mayest prolong thy days upon the earth, which the LORD thy God giveth thee, for ever.
41Then Moses severed three cities on this side Jordan toward the sunrising;
42That the slayer might flee thither, which should kill his neighbour unawares, and hated him not in times past; and that fleeing unto one of these cities he might live:
43Namely, Bezer in the wilderness, in the plain country, of the Reubenites; and Ramoth in Gilead, of the Gadites; and Golan in Bashan, of the Manassites.
44And this is the law which Moses set before the children of Israel:
45These are the testimonies, and the statutes, and the judgments, which Moses spake unto the children of Israel, after they came forth out of Egypt.
46On this side Jordan, in the valley over against Bethpeor, in the land of Sihon king of the Amorites, who dwelt at Heshbon, whom Moses and the children of Israel smote, after they were come forth out of Egypt:
47And they possessed his land, and the land of Og king of Bashan, two kings of the Amorites, which were on this side Jordan toward the sunrising;
48From Aroer, which is by the bank of the river Arnon, even unto mount Sion, which is Hermon,
49And all the plain on this side Jordan eastward, even unto the sea of the plain, under the springs of Pisgah.
It is also interesting to see that Moses represents the Prophets who have given us examples, direction and His Words to meditate on but they themselves will not be among the elect who first enter the Promised Land, the Kingdom of God promised in the New Covenant.
His Peace and Wisdom to you,
Joe
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Hi all,
I just wanted to share this with uz all, Wen I had just started my walk with GOD/CHRIST (a gang member of 23yrs till 2005), Well I was just in the starting of my walk & I still hadnt really read or even looked @ a Bible by this time, But! thru testimonies! & fellowshipping with others I started to get all this Knowledge, & the more knowledge I got the more I felt (emotional) towards others whom never or never even thort to looking into Who is this GOD everyone talks about, or just couldnt be bothered thru Peer pressure etc..., Well one morning I was in the Toilet haha! of all places wen ECCLESIASTES came to my mind (this is so true) Im like to myself 'whats this Ecclesiastes?'. So I came out & my wife was sitting on the bed & I said to her, um! darling whats Ecclesiastes!?. well her being in the same boat as me lol! she says Pass! lol!, & I said it sounds like sum sort of Biblical thing, So we grabbed a Bible & WhaM!!! BanG!!! ECCLESIASTES is in the Bible. So I said wow! GOD must want me to read this, So i did then BANG!!!( ECCL 1: 18) For in much Wisdom is much grief. And he who increases in Knowledge increases in Sorrow. Man! straitup! I was just blown! away but real xcited @ the same time bcoz GOD was speaking to ME! lol! mE! As this was exactly! what was going on in my life @ that time, AmazinG!! nO one could eva tell mE GOD is not REAL!, well they can But! (watchout! in a good way of corse, id set them strait lol!) and I will always remember that time always! and Ive just gone on in Leaps & Bounds for GOD!, & bcoz of my loyalty, attitude etc... I beleave GOD chose mE to keep that, So Ive gone in the search of GODS real Truths, not as what Ive seen since cumn to GOD how there is so many Deceived! dumb! xcuse me lol! people out there.
Well just thort id share that with U all lol! GODBLESS & b with uZ! all,
muchLOVE!! Pera
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Hi Pera,
I see you are seeking the Truth. Have you read any of Ray's articles?
You should go to Bibletruths, here is the link http://bible-truths.com/
All us of here have studied Ray's teachings of the scripture,
it would be a good idea for you to look into them, and let me know what you think :)
mercy, peace, and love
Kat
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Hey Pera,
I want to say firstly WELCOME to the forum...I am enjoying your posts...you're just straight up honest and I love that!
Thanks for sharing with us...very cool story!
Peace to you,
Diana
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Hello Pera
God always knows exactly where and when to get our attention!
The wonderful thing about knowledge is that the love of Christ passes it by! Paul wrote :
Ephesians 3 : 16-19 May He grant you out of the rich treasury of His glory to be strengthened and reinforced with might power in the inner man by the Holy Spirit Himself indwelling your innermost being and personality. 17. May Christ through your faith actually dwell, settle down, abide, make His permanent home in your hearts! May you be rooted deep in love and founded securely in love. 18. That you may have the power and be strong to apprehend and grasp with all the saints, God’s devoted people, the experience of that love, what is the breadth and length and height and depth of it.19 That you may really come to know practically, through experience for yourselves, the love of Christ, which FAR SURPASSES MERE KNOWLEDGE without experience, that you may be filled through all your being unto all the fullness of God, may have the richest measure of the divine Presence and become a body wholly filled and flooded with God Himself!
Knowledge can fade and can become puffed up but experience of His love, now that is an experience like you had! No one can rob you of that experience of God meeting you and being fearless to talk to you straight to your heart Pera. How wonderful! With just one word you life turned around! THATS GOD! ;D :D
Thank you for sharing your beautiful testimony. You have been through so much but not in vain. Your testimony is proof positive and reminds me that God can go anywhere and do anything and that nothing can stop Hiim! GOD IS GOD! Nothing higher no one stronger and nothing in His way or too difficult for Him! :D
Peace to you
Arcturus :)