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=> General Discussions => Topic started by: Ian 155 on August 01, 2012, 12:56:07 PM
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Members,
Was the allowed and successful temptation of Adam and Eve in the Garden a stereotype of what we go thru every day - the more we succumb to deceit the more pain the more harder this life is [thorns and thistles]- that is until we are perfected
ian
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Members,
Was the allowed and successful temptation of Adam and Eve in the Garden a stereotype of what we go thru every day - the more we succumb to deceit the more pain the more harder this life is [thorns and thistles]- that is until we are perfected
ian
I don't know if I fully understand your question.
All mankind has sinned because God created us to automatically sin. He made us the way we are. There is a 100% success rate in humanity sinning. God always has His way. That is why there is not even one righteous human (except Jesus).
The only way that we ever do a good thing is when the Spirit of God gives us the will and the action to do a good thing.
Both Good and Evil come from God. We are His workmanship. As Jeremiah and Paul noted, we are clay being formed in the Hands of the Potter.
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i thought the fall was planned all along and not just allowed...
i also think we can use all scripture to help us in our everyday life so i guess it can be used as sterotype for our sins and lessons....
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thanks ,
I'm taking notes - God Is admonishing the then woman [not yet named], what is this you have done? is God kinda surprised as well ?
Gen 3:9 But the LORD God called to the man and said to him, "Where are you?" 1 question
Gen 3:11 He said, "Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten of the tree of which I commanded you not to eat? 2 questions,God knew the answers to ,
Gen 3:13 Then the LORD God said to the woman, "What is this that you have done?" The woman said, "The serpent deceived me, and I ate." 4th question
My Question again, Is This a stereo type of our daily lives as we know them - explaining away our daily falling in an attitude of repentance - Man was created in Gods image, you say we were created to sin ... I was hoping there were past/any, discussions on the subject - why this Fall was allowed/planned
Ian
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This e-mail to Ray may help answer some of your questions. http://bible-truths.com/email2.htm#why
*fixed link*
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I hate computers and they hate me. Read Ray's " Why are we Here" e-mail. Mabey someone with actual skills can post that link.
Longhorn
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I think I see what you're saying, Ian. I'm not sure I can mirror back to you clearly what I see, but I will try, so bear with me, because this is an interesting topic and one that hits close to my heart.
It sounds like you're asking: would this be the approach that God uses with us each time we stumble and fall every day of our lives?
My understanding is, if you are the elect of God, it is not possible to be deceived by Satan ever again. Yes, we will still sin; but I don't believe that God drives the elect from the "Tree of Life," but rather He gives us the ability to repent through his kindness -- that is what leads to repentance after all. And He doesn't stop there--no! He goes on to CLEANS US FROM ALL UNRIGHTEOUSNESS so we can obey Him; so that we go on to actually DO what's RIGHT. (In my case as it was yesterday - praying for those who persecute us and treat us badly.)
If you believe [obey] God you will not be treated like someone who doesn't believe God. See, Eve didn't believe God; she believed the lie because she was deceived
You will be TEMPTED TO BELIEVE THE LIE, but it will not be possible for you to believe because God won't let you believe it.
If you are the elect, you won't believe the lie and you won't be driven from the Tree of Life; and God will not be asking you "where are you, Ian?" because you know where you are and how you got there--right? No need to ask or try and figure it out, right? (And yes, I know that God isn't asking "where are you" as if He doesn't know himself; of course He does; but when we're steeped in sin and disobedient, we don't know--so He asks us "where are you?" As if to say, You're not where you ought to be.")
Hebrews 4
1 Therefore, while the promise of entering his rest still stands, let us fear lest any of you should seem to have failed to reach it.
2 For good news came to us just as to them, but the message they heard did not benefit them, because they were not united by faith with those who listened.
3 For we who have believed enter that rest, as he has said,
“As I swore in my wrath,
‘They shall not enter my rest,’”
although his works were finished from the foundation of the world.
4 For he has somewhere spoken of the seventh day in this way: “And God rested on the seventh day from all his works.”
5 And again in this passage he said,
“They shall not enter my rest.”
6 Since therefore it remains for some to enter it, and those who formerly received the good news failed to enter because of disobedience,
“Today, if you hear his voice,
do not harden your hearts.”
. . .
9 So then, there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God, [God's people are not driven away from the Tree of Life by God like Adam and Eve were, and there are no thorns and thistles on that Tree. :)]
10 for whoever has entered God’s rest has also rested from his [own] works as God did from his.
11 Let us therefore strive to enter that rest [sounds a little oxymoronic - "strive to enter rest"--it's like, huh? what?], so that no one may fall by the same sort of disobedience.
12 For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart.
13 And no creature is hidden from his sight, but all are naked and exposed to the eyes of him to whom we must give account.
Jesus the Great High Priest
14 Since then we [the elect, not those who don't really believe God] have a great high priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus, the Son of God, let us hold fast our confession. [1 Tim 4:10 For this we labor and suffer reproach because we trust in the living God, Who is the savior of ALL men, especially those that believe [believe God].]
15 For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who in every respect has been tempted as we are, yet without sin.
16 Let us then with confidence [boldly] draw near to the throne of grace, that we may receive mercy and find grace to help in time of need.
We die to self daily. Daily we are saved by grace through faith. Each day we are judged [ if you judge YOURSELF you will not be condemned (like Adam and Eve were) with the world ] Are we coming out of the world? Or are we going along with the lies? I am not going along with the lies but when I am tempted and if I DO sin, I know that I have an advocate who is familiar with the temptation to sin, yet without sinning, who understands my weaknesses and to whom I can draw near to for well-timed help just when I need it, so let us draw boldly to the throne of grace (this couldn't be more fitting a subject for the day I had today! I get so scared sometimes, so this is really helpful for me to talk about, Ian--what a blessing to me this subject is.) We believe God , who is TEACHING us with kindness that leads to repentance (in attitude and action) so we can overcome our sin. "Sin shall no longer have dominion over you."
And if we are the elect, then we need to be given access to the "Tree of Life." Right? I mean, Adam and Eve were driven from the Tree of Life so that they couldn't live, right? But if Christ lives in us then though we are dead, we live; or rather Christ lives in us.
Tell me if that makes any sense, Ian, or anyone!
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Just because God asked questions to Adam & Eve doesn't mean anything was a surprise to Him. Often times, parents and teachers ask questions to students, that they already know the answer to, as a teaching tool. Our entire lives are teaching tools for us to become sons & daughters of God.
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http://bible-truths.com/email2.htm#will
Mighta been this one too.
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This e-mail to Ray may help answer some of your qhttp://bible-truths.com/email2.htm#whyuestions.
See the problem... the q for "question" is in the wrong place
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Members,
Was the allowed and successful temptation of Adam and Eve in the Garden a stereotype of what we go thru every day - the more we succumb to deceit the more pain the more harder this life is [thorns and thistles]- that is until we are perfected
ian
I don't know, Ian. The rain falls on the just and the unjust, and it seems like the opposite is often true...the more I overcome deceit the harder life is. It's been like that for me, anyway...but I'm a little wierd. Life and circumstances weren't 'Good' before I started repenting and caring about God and godliness, but at least I didn't have that. Now I actually have things to do, the Beast to dethrone, sins to repent of, character to build, houses are crumbling, stuff going on. Before I was just fat, dumb and...was going to say 'happy', but that's stretching it quite a bit. "Fat" is too, come to think of it. :)
I still grumble about the outside (I'm not much better off than I was four years ago), but its been a worth-while exchange on the inside. I reckon the outside has had something to do with that, too.
Is "Eve" stereotypical of any of that? I think so. Certainly we ate the same fruit.
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Members,
Was the allowed and successful temptation of Adam and Eve in the Garden a stereotype of what we go thru every day - the more we succumb to deceit the more pain the more harder this life is [thorns and thistles]- that is until we are perfected
ian
Hi ian
It is truly mind boggling how words can cover a multitude of assumptions! lol ~ ;D
Take that word "allow" for example.
Here then are all the Biblical examples of what God “allows”:
“But as we were allowed [Gk: ‘approved’] of God to be put in trust with the gospel…” (I Thes. 2:4).
That’s it! That is the totality of everything in the Bible that God “allows.” http://bible-truths.com/lake15-C.html
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Hello,Ian
God's Will
« on: December 09, 2006, 03:51:52 PM »
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I've heard allot of people ask the question what is Gods will for they're lives?
This is my question as well, what is Gods Will?
Is it our own will?
If we live a holy life wont we be in the Will of God what ever we do?
Could you please give me some in site on this question, I've read all of your writings and its caused me to search for answers more than ever.
I've found that in the past ,I've more less believed the teachings of others and never read the bible for myself. Its great to read and see that the bible is nothing like I've been taught. I'm tired of living according to teachers ,preachers . I want to live according to what God wants, and what the Bible actually teaches.Your site has been very informative.Thanks T
Dear Teresa:
If you will read or reread my four-part series on "The Myth of Free Will Exposed," you will know a great deal about the will of God. I am now going to teach you something very very profound, so listen carefully:
EVERYTHING that happened in your life, in the past, WAS God's purpose for your life at that time.
EVERYTHING that will happen in your life, in the future, WILL BE God's purpose for you at that time.
Then why do anything? Why try? Why care? Why be good? Why study? Why pray? For WHAT?
Here is where viritually all Christians and all theologians and all ministers turn their minds off.
What you did in the past was influenced and caused by your environment of the past.
What you do in the future will be influenced and caused by your environment of the future.
What you are hearing and learning from bibletruths.com is one of those environmental
happenings that will have an effect on your future. You may not see how, but God does.
If God is choosing you as one of the called/chosen/elect/few, then you WILL respond
to the information and circumstances that God Himself will be directing in your life.
If you desire to stop sinning and start obeying God, then that being CAUSED in your
heart and mind, and you have no idea were and when it really began. God knows.
This is a subject for a 300 page book, not a short email. Hope you understand. Keep reading.
God be with you,
Ray
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Eph 4:20 But ye have not so learned Christ;
Eph 4:21 If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus:
Eph 4:22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
Eph 4:23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
Eph 4:24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
Eph 4:25 Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another.
Eph 4:26 Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath:
Eph 4:27 Neither give place to the devil. Eph 4:28 Let him that stole steal no more: but rather let him labour, working with his hands the thing which is good, that he may have to give to him that needeth.
Eph 4:29 Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.
Eph 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
Eph 4:31 Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice:
Eph 4:32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.
Heb 13:4 Marriage is honourable in all, and the bed undefiled: but whoremongers and adulterers God will judge.
Heb 13:5 Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.
Heb 13:6 So that we may boldly say, The Lord is my helper, and I will not fear what man shall do unto me.
Heb 13:7 Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation.
Heb 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.
Folks .. I am getting there,we are given certain instructions just like Adam and Eve were given instruction - Sometimes the things I want to do I don't... No explanation ,
By most replys,Gods Will, it seems is for us to do/listen to, these instructions listed above or does God allow for incompetence without judgement
I underlined Allow especially for you Arc :)) strong verse that ...thanks
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I think I see what you're saying, Ian. I'm not sure I can mirror back to you clearly what I see, but I will try, so bear with me, because this is an interesting topic and one that hits close to my heart.
It sounds like you're asking: would this be the approach that God uses with us each time we stumble and fall every day of our lives?
My understanding is, if you are the elect of God, it is not possible to be deceived by Satan ever again. Yes, we will still sin; but I don't believe that God drives the elect from the "Tree of Life," but rather He gives us the ability to repent through his kindness -- that is what leads to repentance after all. And He doesn't stop there--no! He goes on to CLEANS US FROM ALL UNRIGHTEOUSNESS so we can obey Him; so that we go on to actually DO what's RIGHT. (In my case as it was yesterday - praying for those who persecute us and treat us badly.)
If you believe [obey] God you will not be treated like someone who doesn't believe God. See, Eve didn't believe God; she believed the lie because she was deceived
You will be TEMPTED TO BELIEVE THE LIE, but it will not be possible for you to believe because God won't let you believe it.
If you are the elect, you won't believe the lie and you won't be driven from the Tree of Life; and God will not be asking you "where are you, Ian?" because you know where you are and how you got there--right? No need to ask or try and figure it out, right? (And yes, I know that God isn't asking "where are you" as if He doesn't know himself; of course He does; but when we're steeped in sin and disobedient, we don't know--so He asks us "where are you?" As if to say, You're not where you ought to be.")
Hebrews 4
1 Therefore, while the promise of entering his rest still stands, let us fear lest any of you should seem to have failed to reach it.
2 For good news came to us just as to them, but the message they heard did not benefit them, because they were not united by faith with those who listened.
3 For we who have believed enter that rest, as he has said,
“As I swore in my wrath,
‘They shall not enter my rest,’”
although his works were finished from the foundation of the world.
4 For he has somewhere spoken of the seventh day in this way: “And God rested on the seventh day from all his works.”
5 And again in this passage he said,
“They shall not enter my rest.”
6 Since therefore it remains for some to enter it, and those who formerly received the good news failed to enter because of disobedience,
“Today, if you hear his voice,
do not harden your hearts.”
. . .
9 So then, there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God, [God's people are not driven away from the Tree of Life by God like Adam and Eve were, and there are no thorns and thistles on that Tree. :)]
10 for whoever has entered God’s rest has also rested from his [own] works as God did from his.
11 Let us therefore strive to enter that rest [sounds a little oxymoronic - "strive to enter rest"--it's like, huh? what?], so that no one may fall by the same sort of disobedience.
12 For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart.
13 And no creature is hidden from his sight, but all are naked and exposed to the eyes of him to whom we must give account.
Jesus the Great High Priest
14 Since then we [the elect, not those who don't really believe God] have a great high priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus, the Son of God, let us hold fast our confession. [1 Tim 4:10 For this we labor and suffer reproach because we trust in the living God, Who is the savior of ALL men, especially those that believe [believe God].]
15 For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who in every respect has been tempted as we are, yet without sin.
16 Let us then with confidence [boldly] draw near to the throne of grace, that we may receive mercy and find grace to help in time of need.
We die to self daily. Daily we are saved by grace through faith. Each day we are judged [ if you judge YOURSELF you will not be condemned (like Adam and Eve were) with the world ] Are we coming out of the world? Or are we going along with the lies? I am not going along with the lies but when I am tempted and if I DO sin, I know that I have an advocate who is familiar with the temptation to sin, yet without sinning, who understands my weaknesses and to whom I can draw near to for well-timed help just when I need it, so let us draw boldly to the throne of grace (this couldn't be more fitting a subject for the day I had today! I get so scared sometimes, so this is really helpful for me to talk about, Ian--what a blessing to me this subject is.) We believe God , who is TEACHING us with kindness that leads to repentance (in attitude and action) so we can overcome our sin. "Sin shall no longer have dominion over you."
And if we are the elect, then we need to be given access to the "Tree of Life." Right? I mean, Adam and Eve were driven from the Tree of Life so that they couldn't live, right? But if Christ lives in us then though we are dead, we live; or rather Christ lives in us.
Tell me if that makes any sense, Ian, or anyone!
perfect sence Gina, Its application ...
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Members,
Was the allowed and successful temptation of Adam and Eve in the Garden a stereotype of what we go thru every day - the more we succumb to deceit the more pain the more harder this life is [thorns and thistles]- that is until we are perfected
ian
I don't know, Ian. The rain falls on the just and the unjust, and it seems like the opposite is often true...the more I overcome deceit the harder life is. It's been like that for me, anyway...but I'm a little wierd. Life and circumstances weren't 'Good' before I started repenting and caring about God and godliness, but at least I didn't have that. Now I actually have things to do, the Beast to dethrone, sins to repent of, character to build, houses are crumbling, stuff going on. Before I was just fat, dumb and...was going to say 'happy', but that's stretching it quite a bit. "Fat" is too, come to think of it. :)
I still grumble about the outside (I'm not much better off than I was four years ago), but its been a worth-while exchange on the inside. I reckon the outside has had something to do with that, too.
Is "Eve" stereotypical of any of that? I think so. Certainly we ate the same fruit.
Sounds a lot like myself here Dave - frustrated that from my perspective Im never ever gonna be perfect or at least there seems so much work to do due to the humoungous pile of trash thats gotta be dealt with ...everyone else seems to be hunky dory goood students and here am I just fallin and crawlin.
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Hi Ian,
We are all born in the carnal flesh subject to sin and since that first man sinned all have followed right along disobeying/sinning, which leads to death.
Rom 5:18 So, then, as through one offence to all men it is to condemnation...
v. 19 for as through the disobedience of the one man, the many were constituted sinners...
Of course that is not the end of the matter, but the beginning. We all live and do right/good and wrong/evil, this is partaking of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil just as Adam and Eve did. By this we are forming a backdrop, a knowledge of both good and evil from life experiences. God always tells us what is right and good, even gave us the law so we would have it in writing and know exactly what is wrong. But we are made carnal and cannot obey, just as Paul said.
Rom 7:18 for I have known that there doth not dwell in me, that is, in my flesh, good: for to will is present with me, and to work that which is right I do not find,
God is giving us this "experience of evil" to teach us a very valuable lesson... that as we are, carnal, we are hopeless slaves to sin.
Ecc 1:13 And I gave my heart to seek and search out by wisdom concerning all which is done under the heavens. It is a sad task God has given to the sons of men to be humbled by it.
Well there is a process being worked out and we are only at the beginning, for most, the many, they will die in the lost condition. But this life lived as a sinner is not the end, far from it. For a few, we are given repentance in this life and by Jesus Christ indwelling sin no longer reigns over us, as Paul said...
Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! Who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
v. 25 Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord!
Rom 5:19 For as by the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, so by the one man's obedience the many will be made righteous.
So as you ask, "does God allow for incompetence without judgement"? No not allow, but caused, because God is sovereign and the ultimate cause of all things. And judgement is on the elect now, and for the rest of the world they will come up in the resurrection to judgement.
Here is an email for more on this.
http://bible-truths.com/email14.htm -------------------
"Wherefore God also has highly exalted Him, and given Him a name which is above every name. That at the name of JESUS every knee should bow [that's worship], of things [them] in heaven, and them in earth, and them under the earth; And that every tongue should CONFESS that Jesus Christ IS LORD [that's REPENTANCE, and it can ONLY be done by the in-dwelling of God's Holy Spirit, '...no man CAN say that Jesus is Lord but by the Holy Spirit' I Cor. 12:3], to the glory of God the Father" (Phil. 2;9-11).
v
Phil. 2:9-11, where EVERY KNEE AND EVERY TONGUE bows and confesses that Jesus is LORD AND MASTER OF THEIR LIVES! Where do you see in these verses FAILURE to believe and accept Jesus?
v
"WE ARE SAVED BY GRACE, through FAITH." GRACE IS FREE. GRACE SAVES US. Nothing but the GRACE OF JESUS CHRIST SAVES US--NOTHING ELSE! And we didn't "come to Christ," the Father DRAGGED US" (John 6:44), and we have not "chosen Christ," but rather Christ has "chosen us" (John 15:16).
v
Once God GRACES His true elect, He then TEACHES, TRAINS, DISCIPLINES, CORRECTS, PUNISHES, CHASTISES us to live GODLY LIVES IN AN UNGODLY WORLD (Titus 2:11).
Grace is a VERB that does and accomplishes something in the true believer. It conquers the WORLD and its LUSTS inside of the true believer. Did Saul/Paul "ASK TO BE SAVED" on the road to Damascus? Well, DID HE?
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mercy, peace and love
Kat
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God is truly loving, even in his judgements. He without a doubt knew the answers to all the questions, but he also gets up close and personal with individuals.
As he did with Abraham, and Lot before he brought judgement on the cities of the plain. It not only lets us see God's view point, but his people as well when he asked questions.
How much was known about death and dieing before the fall?
God is the master potter, forming us in the womb and continues making us to his liking, some pleasing and some not so pleasing for the rest of our lives.
How many despise the Word of God? Are there things in his Word that I wish were not in the Bible? I know I use to avoid some things, that aren't a problem now.
If we do good, and eschew evil ( shun ) we won't be the workers of iniquity that he will say to; "I never knew you."
Joel
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Sounds a lot like myself here Dave - frustrated that from my perspective Im never ever gonna be perfect or at least there seems so much work to do due to the humoungous pile of trash thats gotta be dealt with ...everyone else seems to be hunky dory goood students and here am I just fallin and crawlin.
Sounds a lot like me too, Ian! Take heart -- look who God calls! :)
26 For consider your calling, brothers: not many of you were wise according to worldly standards, not many were powerful, not many were of noble birth.
27 But God chose what is foolish [THAT'S ME!] in the world to shame the wise; God chose what is weak [ME AGAIN!] in the world to shame the strong;
28 God chose what is low and despised in the world [ME AGAIN!], even things that are not [the "nobody's" the "nothings" -- ME HERE TOO!], to bring to nothing things that are,
29 so that no human being might boast in the presence of God.
30 And because of him you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, righteousness and sanctification and redemption,
31 so that, as it is written, “Let the one who boasts, boast in the Lord.”
________________________________
You're in my prayers, Ian. :)
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;D ROFL...Hey Ian, I love that you don't let up!
Eph 4:27 Neither give place to the devil.
By most replys,Gods Will, it seems is for us to do/listen to, these instructions listed above or does God allow for incompetence without judgement
I underlined Allow especially for you Arc :)) strong verse that ...thanks
For starters, can you or I or anyone NOT give place to the devil, of their own free will? NO! LOL ~ ;D
You want to stop sinning and the more you try and the more you clean out your house, the more devils move in! LOL....It is a lesson in humility! lol.
GOD CAUSES EVIL IN THE CITY
Let’s take a close look at that last Scripture in our list:
“…shall there be evil [Heb: ra—‘bad, evil’] in a city, and the Lord has not done it? (Amos 3:6)
There’s the question; what’s the answer? The answer from all Christendom is “Yes.” “Yes” there shall be all kinds of evil in a city, and the Lord has not done it. In fact, according to their teaching, the Lord does no evil in any city, ever. World famous teacher/preacher/theologian/author, Billy Graham said before a packed house in the National Cathedral, that GOD DOES NOT CREATE EVIL. But what saith the Scriptures (Amos 3:4-6):
“Can two walk together, except they be agreed?"
Answer: NO!
“Will a lion roar in the forest, when he has not prey?"
Answer: NO!
“Will a young lion cry out of his den, if he have taken nothing?"
Answer: NO!
“Can a bird fall in a snare upon the earth, where no gin [baited trap] is for him?"
Answer: NO!
“Shall one take up a snare [shall a snare spring up] from the earth, and have taken [caught] nothing at all?"
Answer: NO!
“Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid?"
Answer: NO!
“Shall there be EVIL in a city and the LORD HAS NOT DONE IT?"
Answer: NO!
The Answer is “NO”!
I am now speaking to the mature only. This information is too heavy, too hard, too overwhelming for the carnal-minded person. Have you ever wondered just where it is that the proverbial “rubber meets the road?” Well, right here is where the rubber meets the road. If you don’t accept; if you cannot accept, if you will not accept the truth of all these double-witness Scriptures presented above, then you will never understand God’s plan of salvation for the human race.
Seven times in Amos 3 God asks us a question, and SEVEN TIMES THE ANSWER IS “NO”! NO, there shall not be EVIL in a city [any city—all cities] unless THE LORD HAS DONE IT! The truth of this Scripture (along with hundreds and hundreds like it) is so powerful, so absolutely earth-shattering, that the mere fact of me quoting it and suggesting that it is a true statement, will evoke hate mail from far and wide.
http://bible-truths.com/lake15-C.html
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"For starters, can you or I or anyone NOT give place to the devil, of their own free will? NO! LOL ~ ;D "
OK
Paul stated I have run the race I'm on my way to the podium, he also mentions his trials,all be they outward experiences,[2 cor 11]
2Ti 4:6 My life is being given as an offering for God. The time has come for me to leave this life here.[and take on His way of life] ?
2Ti 4:7 I have fought the good fight. I have finished the race. I have served the Lord faithfully. [he was'nt guessing]
2Ti 4:8 Now, a prize is waiting for me--the crown that will show I am right with God. The Lord, the judge who judges rightly, will give it to me on that Day. Yes, he will give it to me and to everyone else who is eagerly looking forward to his coming.
Now for me who is still being dragged ...and have the Holy Spirit
Give the Devil NO Foothold/place, based on the word ... Resist comes to mind - we are unable to do this outside of our Lord yes, but we are able ? [more than conquerors]
I'm Not talking about false pious humility Oh woe to me this great sinner,I can't stop,must be Gods will etc, we know this,
Eve's instruction, do not look ,touch even think about that fruit / My instructions ,If at 1st you don't succeed ... that is until DUE time,present frustration is there as a thorn
Can we keep excusing ourselves by using select scripture, we have instructions and God is preventing us from obeying ? [Never]
Obedience is better than laying our lives down,by the same token laying ones life down is also obedience
Kris-is ??
now im all over the place
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Sounds a lot like myself here Dave - frustrated that from my perspective Im never ever gonna be perfect or at least there seems so much work to do due to the humoungous pile of trash thats gotta be dealt with ...everyone else seems to be hunky dory goood students and here am I just fallin and crawlin.
Trust me Ian I am falling and crawling right along side you, taking each day as it comes.
It is true that this it is a long and difficult journey we must take but every journey is started with a single step. Don't be too hard on yourself- this isn't a 500m sprint it's a 42KM marathon. Rest in the fact that God has said in his word that HE WILL make us into his image, I will pray for you friend.
"being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus." Phil 1:6
God Bless,
Jase
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We to impatient ? ya think
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I don't think you're too impatient, Ian, not from what you've shared with us.
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I want to change my mind. Is that OK? ???
Here's what God said to the woman.
Gen 3:16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.
The 'thorns and thistles' were either for the man or for them both. Don't ask me, I'm the worst bible-scholar I know (not knowing any preachers any more, other than by name.) But specifically to the woman, that's what He said.
That makes more sense to me, and more aptly describes my life, even though I am a man. Go figure.
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;D ROFL...Hey Ian, I love that you don't let up!
Eph 4:27 Neither give place to the devil.
By most replys,Gods Will, it seems is for us to do/listen to, these instructions listed above or does God allow for incompetence without judgement
I underlined Allow especially for you Arc :)) strong verse that ...thanks
For starters, can you or I or anyone NOT give place to the devil, of their own free will? NO! LOL ~ ;D
You want to stop sinning and the more you try and the more you clean out your house, the more devils move in! LOL....It is a lesson in humility! lol.
GOD CAUSES EVIL IN THE CITY
Let’s take a close look at that last Scripture in our list:
“…shall there be evil [Heb: ra—‘bad, evil’] in a city, and the Lord has not done it? (Amos 3:6)
There’s the question; what’s the answer? The answer from all Christendom is “Yes.” “Yes” there shall be all kinds of evil in a city, and the Lord has not done it. In fact, according to their teaching, the Lord does no evil in any city, ever. World famous teacher/preacher/theologian/author, Billy Graham said before a packed house in the National Cathedral, that GOD DOES NOT CREATE EVIL. But what saith the Scriptures (Amos 3:4-6):
“Can two walk together, except they be agreed?"
Answer: NO!
“Will a lion roar in the forest, when he has not prey?"
Answer: NO!
“Will a young lion cry out of his den, if he have taken nothing?"
Answer: NO!
“Can a bird fall in a snare upon the earth, where no gin [baited trap] is for him?"
Answer: NO!
“Shall one take up a snare [shall a snare spring up] from the earth, and have taken [caught] nothing at all?"
Answer: NO!
“Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid?"
Answer: NO!
“Shall there be EVIL in a city and the LORD HAS NOT DONE IT?"
Answer: NO!
The Answer is “NO”!
I am now speaking to the mature only. This information is too heavy, too hard, too overwhelming for the carnal-minded person. Have you ever wondered just where it is that the proverbial “rubber meets the road?” Well, right here is where the rubber meets the road. If you don’t accept; if you cannot accept, if you will not accept the truth of all these double-witness Scriptures presented above, then you will never understand God’s plan of salvation for the human race.
Seven times in Amos 3 God asks us a question, and SEVEN TIMES THE ANSWER IS “NO”! NO, there shall not be EVIL in a city [any city—all cities] unless THE LORD HAS DONE IT! The truth of this Scripture (along with hundreds and hundreds like it) is so powerful, so absolutely earth-shattering, that the mere fact of me quoting it and suggesting that it is a true statement, will evoke hate mail from far and wide.
http://bible-truths.com/lake15-C.html
Thanks for the reminder and reply here, Deb. :-)
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You're always welcome G. ~ 8)
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Members,
Was the allowed and successful temptation of Adam and Eve in the Garden a stereotype of what we go thru every day - the more we succumb to deceit the more pain the more harder this life is [thorns and thistles]- that is until we are perfected
ian
Hi Ian. The way I see it, is that the tree of knowledge of good and evil is
The Law.
I will present what I see as spiritual matches in the old and new Testament:
And the Lord God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put(free will? NO!!) the man whom he had formed.
For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold( under sin.
We also have to notice, that it is a garden eastward in Eden.
But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed
What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet
And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked.
and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons,(own works)
So there it is, man takes the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil
and looks at himself and sees, that he is naked (unrighteous). but check this out:
Luke 24:30 And it came to pass, as he sat at meat with them, he(Jesus) took bread, and blessed it, and brake, and gave to them. And their eyes were opened, and they knew him
Gal 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith
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Members,
Was the allowed and successful temptation of Adam and Eve in the Garden a stereotype of what we go thru every day - the more we succumb to deceit the more pain the more harder this life is [thorns and thistles]- that is until we are perfected
ian
Hi again Ian. I forgot to adress the thorns and thistles, so here it is:
Matt 7:15-16 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles
So the thorns and thistles are false prophets.
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Hi again Ian. I forgot to adress the thorns and thistles, so here it is:
Matt 7:15-16 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles
So the thorns and thistles are false prophets.
I can kinda see that, Eagle. :) What you said is very interesting to me.
See, I remember how Ray said that everything on the earth came out of the earth:
Listen, everything there is on the earth, came out of the earth. Everything! Everything on the earth came out of the earth.
( forums.bible-truths.com/index.php?topic=9130.0 )
WE CAME OUT OF THE EARTH!
I don't know if this will make any sense to anyone but me but what the heck - lets go!
. . .
Genesis 1:11 Then God said, "Let the land produce vegetation: seed-bearing plants and trees on the land that bear fruit with seed in it, according to their various kinds." And it was so.
Hebrews 6:
1 Therefore leaving the elementary teaching about the Christ, let us press on to maturity, not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God,
2 of instruction about washings and laying on of hands, and the resurrection of the dead and eternal judgment.
3 And this we will do, if God permits.
4 For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit,
5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame.
7 For ground [WE COME FROM THE GROUND/EARTH] that drinks the rain which often falls on it and brings forth vegetation useful to those for whose sake it is also tilled, receives a blessing from God;
8 but if it yields thorns and thistles, it is worthless and close to being cursed, and it ends up being burned.
1 Corinthians 3
11 For no man can lay a foundation other than the one which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
12 Now if any man builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw,
13 each man’s work will become evident [their fruit will become evident; you'll know [ourselves?] them by the fruit]; for the day will show it because it is to be revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the quality of each man’s work.
14 If any man’s work which he has built on it remains, he will receive a reward.
15 If any man’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.
----------------------------------------------
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8 but if it yields thorns and thistles, it is worthless and close to being cursed, and it ends up being burned.
Good one Gina. Corresponds with what I said, that the thistles and thorns are false prophets, because it makes me think of Proverbs 23:7 "as a man thinketh, so is he" Thorns and thistles make thorns and thistles. It also reminds me of:
Matt 23:15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.
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Yep. That makes a ton of sense. Thank you!
8 but if it yields thorns and thistles, it is worthless and close to being cursed, and it ends up being burned.
Good one Gina. Corresponds with what I said, that the thistles and thorns are false prophets, because it makes me think of Proverbs 23:7 "as a man thinketh, so is he" Thorns and thistles make thorns and thistles. It also reminds me of:
Matt 23:15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.
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By the way, I love when new questions are posted, It makes me study God`s Word. Just saw new awesome things regarding :
Gen 3:24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.
Wanna hear it? Okay, you all may know this, but this is new to me. Here is How I see it now:
The flaming sword is not the Word of God. The word "flaming" is translated from the hebrew Lahat,which is only used twice in the Old Testament.
The other place it is used is in:
Exd 7:11 Then Pharaoh also called the wise men and the sorcerers: now the magicians of Egypt, they also did in like manner with their enchantments
Enchantments (Lahat) means "to use occult and magical arts". Has the Word of God anything to do with magicians and enchantments? Certainly NOT!! (I´m imitating Ray here :))
The word that is translated sword comes from the hebrew word chereb,
which already there smells a lot like the word Cherubims, and does mean sword. Chereb is derived from the word Charab, which means: to be waste, to lay waste, make desolate....
The word that is translated Cherubims comes from the hebrew word
Keruwb which according to Strongs means: of uncertain derivation; a cherub or imaginary figure.
"which turned every way". In hebrew it reads "the one turning/overturning herself"
"and he placed at the east...". In hebrew it says" and he is causing to tabernacle..."
So who is this woman caused to tabernacle,that is turning herself into a
keeper of the way of the tree of life??
I believe Jesus gives the answer:
But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in
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All vert helpfull to me thanks,
I found this to add
Rom 7:18 For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh. For I have the desire to do what is right, but not the ability to carry it out.
100 % Eagle, gets you studying
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Eagle, I almost missed your last post. That makes so much sense. Thank you again!
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Thank you Ian and Gina for your kind response.
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By the way, I love when new questions are posted, It makes me study God`s Word. Just saw new awesome things regarding :
Gen 3:24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.
Wanna hear it? Okay, you all may know this, but this is new to me. Here is How I see it now:
The flaming sword is not the Word of God. The word "flaming" is translated from the hebrew Lahat,which is only used twice in the Old Testament.
The other place it is used is in:
Exd 7:11 Then Pharaoh also called the wise men and the sorcerers: now the magicians of Egypt, they also did in like manner with their enchantments
Enchantments (Lahat) means "to use occult and magical arts". Has the Word of God anything to do with magicians and enchantments? Certainly NOT!! (I´m imitating Ray here
The word that is translated sword comes from the hebrew word chereb,
which already there smells a lot like the word Cherubims, and does mean sword. Chereb is derived from the word Charab, which means: to be waste, to lay waste, make desolate....
The word that is translated Cherubims comes from the hebrew word
Keruwb which according to Strongs means: of uncertain derivation; a cherub or imaginary figure.
"which turned every way". In hebrew it reads "the one turning/overturning herself"
"and he placed at the east...". In hebrew it says" and he is causing to tabernacle..."
So who is this woman caused to tabernacle,that is turning herself into a
keeper of the way of the tree of life??
I believe Jesus gives the answer:
But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in
Hello eagle.Here are a few of Rays comments on using Strongs as a way of understanding things of the Spirit.
HOW WE GOT THE BIBLE
You say, ‘but Ray it says image and I looked that up in Strong’s Concordance and it means like a statue.’
Of course that’s what it means. Jesus Christ said you should cut off your hands too. This is your hand and a knife is something you use to cut it off. He said to do that. But that is not what He meant.
You say, ‘well then why did He say it?’ He said it so that those to whom it was given would understand exactly what He meant and those that think everything is literal, physical and statues, would not understand it.
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,6840.msg54571.html#msg54571
It is not as simple as looking up words in Strong's Concordance to understand the finer meaning of Scriptures.
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,6291.msg50803.html#msg50803
It is USAGE that determines the meaning of words. I have explained this several times in my writings, but you apparently have not gotten that far as yet.
There is credence to almost all the examples given in Strong's Dictionaries (but not all, however, and that is where teachers come in).
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,4226.msg32193.html#msg32193
Dear Justin:
You cannot learn the true meaning of such words as "ad, olam, aion, aionios," etc. by reading a commentary or lexicon, or concordance like Strong's. Dr. Strong defines "aion" as = "age" AND "eternity."
When the Christians (who have doctrines to defend) write dictionaries and commentaries, they often lie concerning the meaning of words that go against their false teachings. It takes a real teacher to point out these gross errors.
That's like defining "minute" as "hour" AND "century." It's nonsense. If all one had to do to learn the truth of these words was to look them up in a dictionary, I wouldn't need to even have a web site. You need to read and study (for a couple of hundred hours, at least) my paper: "Is EVERLASTING Scriptural?" You have to see how these words are USED, and have been USED, in Scripture, histories, etc. I do not, for example, teach the truth concerning the damnable Christian doctrine of hell, by simply consulting Strong's dictionaries or any other dictionaries. Dictionaries can be a starting point, but it involves a whole lot more than that.
Peace...Mark
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Hello Mark
I can see from your profile, that you´re a guy, so am I, then meet me mano a mano, instead of your cowardly insinuations where you use Ray´s
writings, even making your own underlining in Ray´s writings. I am not a teacher, and sure don´t want to be, that is why I use the phrase "This is how I see it". People are more than welcome to agree,disagree,like or dislike, or better yet: prove me wrong or right. Some of the few posts, I have posted have taken me hours and hours of study and prayer with the hope, that it will bless maybe one or two. Your snakelike attempt to "rebuke" me failed. And if you want to answer to this, don´t send a personal message. Meet me on this board.
In love (albeit tough :) )
Eagle
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eagle,the flaming sword is Jesus Christ.
If fire is judgement and the sword is Gods Word then by Scriptural definition the flaming sword is Jesus,and not what Mr.Strong in his unscriptural definition describes in your post eagle. Calling the flaming sword an enchantment or imaginary figure is by Scriptual definition... wrong.
Some more of Rays teaching on the subject,if you don't mind.
http://bible-truths.com/lake16-D3.htm
The word "fire" is used with reference to Judgment many times in Scripture:
"Gehenna fire," "salted with fire," "furnace of fire," "unquenchable fire," "everlasting fire," "burn by fire," "baptism by fire," "coals of fire," "flaming fire," "eternal fire," "consuming fire."
http://bible-truths.com/fools.htm
"Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword" (Matt. 10:34).
Anyone offended by this statement of our Lord? Isn’t our Lord "The Prince of Peace?" Jesus did not come to bring armies of armed men to do battle on this earth, but that is the literal meaning of His statement. We know that by the sword Jesus had reference to God’s Word, but those who heard Him make this statement didn’t know that. The force of His speech by doing so is undeniable. Many years later we are given the following verse of Scripture which teaches us what Jesus really meant by "a sword."
"For THE WORD OF GOD is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any TWO-EDGED SWORD, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart" (Heb. 4:12).
Now to your slander eagle.
Hello Mark
I can see from your profile, that you´re a guy, so am I, then meet me mano a mano, instead of your cowardly insinuations where you use Ray´s
writings, even making your own underlining in Ray´s writings.
Considering that this site is an inpouring of concern based on the teachings of one L. Ray Smith,and most people come here for that very reason,that is,to learn the truths of God based on the teachings of one L. Ray Smith of bible-truths.com reputation, how then, pray tell, do you expect to discuss Rays teachings without quoting him at times when his teachings are exactly why this forum even exists? Either you can come to see and understand what this forum is based on,or you cant.
I am not a teacher, and sure don´t want to be, that is why I use the phrase "This is how I see it". People are more than welcome to agree,disagree,like or dislike, or better yet: prove me wrong or right.
It isn't whether someone can prove you right or wrong, but rather, do we come to an understanding consensus based on Scripture and Rays spiritual insight.You do not have to agree with anything that I post,or Ray for that matter,but your false understanding of Scripture concerning the flaming sword is a bit much.Have you even read any of Rays material?
Some of the few posts, I have posted have taken me hours and hours of study and prayer with the hope, that it will bless maybe one or two. Your snakelike attempt to "rebuke" me failed. And if you want to answer to this, don´t send a personal message. Meet me on this board.
May I ask how me posting a few of Rays answers on the proper use of the Strong's concordance makes me out to be a rebuking snake? If you have a problem with what I posted my friend, then from what I see,you have a problem with what Ray teaches and not with me.But,let the record show, if I did not fully agree with what Ray stated in those few responses, we would not even be having this discussion...
In love (albeit tough )
Eagle
In His tough love...Mark
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Hi eagle,
Well as you said, "to agree,disagree,like or dislike,or better yet: prove me wrong or right" in a post... So that is true, when you present a post on this forum you have to be ready to accept any of those critical responces. So why do you come back with such venom in your responce to what you already said you knew (and welcomed) that you might get? To accuse someone of being "snakelike" falls in the category of name calling and is not allowed.
When you see "new awesome things," rejoice that the Lord has revealed something to you. But something 'new' that has not been covered in Ray's material should not be brought here.
Just a reminder.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
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Hi Mark
eagle,the flaming sword is Jesus Christ.
If fire is judgement and the sword is Gods Word then by Scriptural definition the flaming sword is Jesus,and not what Mr.Strong in his unscriptural definition describes in your post eagle. Calling the flaming sword an enchantment or imaginary figure is by Scriptual definition... wrong.
Now You´re talking :) That´s all I hoped for.
Now to your slander eagle.
Nothing in my post has anything to do with slander.
Slander is defined here http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/slander
as 1.defamation
2.a malicious, false, and defamatory statement or report: a slander against his good name.
I never did that to you, and would never even think of doing it to you or anyone else for that matter. I do not know anything about you or your character/good name
I just adressed your action.
Have you even read any of Rays material?
Yes I have, and agreed with all of it first time I read it, how can you not :)
May I ask how me posting a few of Rays answers on the proper use of the Strong's concordance makes me out to be a rebuking snake?
I absolutely did not call you a rebuking snake. I said "your snakelike attempt" That statement speaks of a one time action.
In love
Eagle
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Hi Kat
To accuse someone of being "snakelike" falls in the category of name calling and is not allowed.
But I didn´t. Like I just wrote to Mark, I said " your snakelike attempt" That is a one time attempt/act.
In love
Eagle
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Tomato, tomatoe, the fact is Eagle you posted something that Mark corrected you on, he didn't use his own words he used Rays and highlighted the key points for understanding.
You said "People are more than welcome to agree,disagree,like or dislike, or better yet: prove me wrong or right" I think Mark did just that but you really don't mean what you say because then you tell him "your snake like attempt to rebuke me failed". Personally I think he was spot on, but you don't have to agree you can believe whatever you want.
However Kat is right "your snakelike attempt" falls into the category of name calling.
Craig
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Eagle, why I replied to your initial post was for reason,that,when I see the Good Name of the Lord being slandered by the use of false doctrines of men,for their own unscriptural summations,behind their own false agendas,not knowing the Truth nor giving due diligent study to that Truth,well, plainly stated,it irks the hell out of me. When we rightly divide His Truths,fruitless discussion is then alleviated.
2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
2Ti 2:16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.
Now You´re talking That´s all I hoped for.
I'm glad the Spirit opened your understanding behind His meaning concerning the flaming sword... :)
Peace...Mark
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::) >:( :-X
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Eagle, why I replied to your initial post was for reason,that,when I see the Good Name of the Lord being slandered by the use of false doctrines of men,for their own unscriptural summations,behind their own false agendas,not knowing the Truth nor giving due diligent study to that Truth,well, plainly stated,it irks the hell out of me. When we rightly divide His Truths,fruitless discussion is then alleviated.
2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
2Ti 2:16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.
Now You´re talking That´s all I hoped for.
I'm glad the Spirit opened your understanding behind His meaning concerning the flaming sword... :)
Peace...Mark
Hey Mark,
I agreed with your original post. I agreed with your reply to eagle.
But isn't this 2nd reply a little over the top? Yes, I agree the flaming sword represents Jesus. But if someone doesn't know that point, is that slandering the Good Name of God? Can anyone really slander or cause God harm? Do they not harm themselves? God will bring everyone around with correct knowledge.
I don't want to cause further hurt feelings. But I don't like to see spiking the football. You were right.
John
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Hey Mark,
I agreed with your original post. I agreed with your reply to eagle.
But isn't this 2nd reply a little over the top? Yes, I agree the flaming sword represents Jesus. But if someone doesn't know that point, is that slandering the Good Name of God? Can anyone really slander or cause God harm? Do they not harm themselves? God will bring everyone around with correct knowledge.
I don't want to cause further hurt feelings. But I don't like to see spiking the football. You were right.
John
Hey John. Thanks for your post.
My second reply was more of a general thought in the matter and not solely aimed at eagle(my bad). To my own defense, my statement as quoted was "I see the Good Name of the Lord being slandered by the use of false doctrines of men". It says of men and not eagle exclusively. I did direct my statement to eagle but in all fairness I was also directing it to you,me and anyone who would slander the Name of God. Hope that clears things up for you.
You ask can anyone really slander[defame] the Good Name of God? Well yes,we all can if we subscribe to the false doctrines of babylon. If you come right down to it, should we continue in the milk of His word or go on into the mature meat? As eagle stated himself, he has read Rays material and "agrees with all of it". Should I just assume then that what eagle posted is in alignment with Scripture and Rays teachings without the due process of further investigation? Should we then subscribe to that false notion without first judging the spirit,from which it came?
As Kat previously stated "when you present a post on this forum you have to be ready to accept any of those critical responces". When someone posts something on the forum that goes against Scripture and what Ray has taught on,should we then overlook it and have the newcomers led astray by an evil report[slander]? I do not believe that would be something the body of Christ could, or should, approve of. Correction in the body is a necessary ingredient to bring the body in line with the head.
I do not take pleasure in correcting anyone,but,when the Word of God is being slandered under the falseness,of what babylon is,well,I can not just sit idly by without at least trying to help the brethren come to a truthful understanding based on what we all have learned through Scripture, bt, and these forums.
If I may, I would like to leave you with these verse, for your meditation, and hopefully, edification also.
Num 14:35 I the LORD have said, I will surely do it unto all this evil congregation, that are gathered together against me: in this wilderness they shall be consumed, and there they shall die.
Num 14:36 And the men, which Moses sent to search the land, who returned, and made all the congregation to murmur against him, by bringing up a slander upon the land,
Num 14:37 Even those men that did bring up the evil report upon the land, died by the plague before the LORD.
Psa 31:13 For I have heard the slander of many: fear was on every side: while they took counsel together against me, they devised to take away my life.
Pro 10:18 He that hideth hatred with lying lips, and he that uttereth a slander, is a fool.
Peace...Mark