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=> General Discussions => Topic started by: zander on April 24, 2009, 11:21:28 AM
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Guys
Can any of you explain this for me?
How is it that people are able to heal other people either being a Christian or not being a Christian? My friend says her knee was healed by a "spiritualist Christian" - a church person. My friend does Rei_Ki and actually healed my headache.
I know people (no christians) who have had thier futures told and they have come true.
I know people who are convinced they have seen ghosts or unexplained events.
I believe there is no doubt this stuff exists.
Ray once dismissd it.
Im not so sure i agree with him.
Whats everyone elses view on this stuff?
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Guys
Can any of you explain this for me?
How is it that people are able to heal other people either being a Christian or not being a Christian? My friend says her knee was healed by a "spiritualist Christian" - a church person. My friend does Rei_Ki and actually healed my headache.
I know people (no christians) who have had thier futures told and they have come true.
I know people who are convinced they have seen ghosts or unexplained events.
I believe there is no doubt this stuff exists.
Ray once dismissd it.
Im not so sure i agree with him.
Whats everyone elses view on this stuff?
One verse comes to mind quickly:
1Jn 4:1 My loved ones, do not put your faith in every spirit, but put them to the test, to see if they are from God: because a great number of false prophets have gone out into the world.
Do medical doctor's "heal", or the medicine prescribed? Christian or non-christians alike, medical doctor christian or non-christian that's their high training. I've never looked into the Rei_Ki, but I do believe there are certain "points" that can be touched or massaged that will relieve a headache. But so will aspirin.
"spiritualist christian"........." a church person". Haven't heard that term before.
I know people also who are convinced of ghosts and unexplained events as well. A couple of friends and I were speaking about it yesterday as a matter of fact. No doubt, there are "unexplained events", simply because we can't see the cause. David Copperfied makes a living doing this.
All in all I'm with Ray. I dismiss most of it.
Gary
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ALL is of God means A L L is of God, regardless if the " spiritualist Christian" - a church person or Rei_Ki get the un-rightfully credit, recognition and glory. That should always be GIVEN to God.
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We operate on sight (physical), so we assume that if it is not seen by us, it is not. Look at some Scripture that shows what we are not seeing daily (Spiritually), when operating by sight and not by His Faith. The Scriptures teach that even today we need to be careful how we deal with strangers, why? because we may be entertaining angels unawares.
2Ki 6: 1-20 (GNB)
1 One day the group of prophets that Elisha was in charge of complained to him, "The place where we live is too small!
2 Give us permission to go to the Jordan and cut down some trees, so that we can build a place to live." "All right," Elisha answered.
3 One of them urged him to go with them; he agreed,
4 and they set out together. When they arrived at the Jordan, they began to work.
5 As one of them was cutting down a tree, suddenly his iron ax head fell in the water. "What shall I do, sir?" he exclaimed to Elisha. "It was a borrowed ax!"
6 "Where did it fall?" Elisha asked. The man showed him the place, and Elisha cut off a stick, threw it in the water, and made the ax head float.
7 "Take it out," he ordered, and the man reached down and picked it up.
8 The king of Syria was at war with Israel. He consulted his officers and chose a place to set up his camp.
9 But Elisha sent word to the king of Israel, warning him not to go near that place, because the Syrians were waiting in ambush there.
10 So the king of Israel warned the people who lived in that place, and they were on guard. This happened several times.
11 The Syrian king became greatly upset over this; he called in his officers and asked them, "Which one of you is on the side of the king of Israel?"
12 One of them answered, "No one is, Your Majesty. The prophet Elisha tells the king of Israel what you say even in the privacy of your own room."
13 "Find out where he is," the king ordered, "and I will capture him." When he was told that Elisha was in Dothan,
14 he sent a large force there with horses and chariots. They reached the town at night and surrounded it.
15 Early the next morning Elisha's servant got up, went out of the house, and saw the Syrian troops with their horses and chariots surrounding the town. He went back to Elisha and exclaimed, "We are doomed, sir! What shall we do?"
16 "Don't be afraid," Elisha answered. "We have more on our side than they have on theirs."
17 Then he prayed, "O LORD, open his eyes and let him see!" The LORD answered his prayer, and Elisha's servant looked up and saw the hillside covered with horses and chariots of fire all around Elisha.
18 When the Syrians attacked, Elisha prayed, "O LORD, strike these men blind!" The LORD answered his prayer and struck them blind.
19 Then Elisha went to them and said, "You are on the wrong road; this is not the town you are looking for. Follow me, and I will lead you to the man you are after." And he led them to Samaria.
20 As soon as they had entered the city, Elisha prayed, "Open their eyes, LORD, and let them see." The LORD answered his prayer; he restored their sight, and they saw that they were inside Samaria.
Heb 1:14 (GNB)
What are the angels, then? They are spirits who serve God and are sent by him to help those who are to receive salvation.
Heb 13:2 (GNB)
Remember to welcome strangers in your homes. There were some who did that and welcomed angels without knowing it.
george :).
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Guys
Can any of you explain this for me?
How is it that people are able to heal other people either being a Christian or not being a Christian? My friend says her knee was healed by a "spiritualist Christian" - a church person. My friend does Rei_Ki and actually healed my headache.
I know people (no christians) who have had thier futures told and they have come true.
I know people who are convinced they have seen ghosts or unexplained events.
I believe there is no doubt this stuff exists.
Ray once dismissd it.
Im not so sure i agree with him.
Whats everyone elses view on this stuff?
1. Do you believe in Angels [heavenly messengers]? What about Demons? What about Satan? These are some of the answers to your questions. There are MANY ways that Satan "deceives the whole world". And there are MANY ways that God causes the world to be "blind".
2 As far as ghosts and such, there are several reasons for this.
A. See #1
B. Scientifically speaking: there are a lot of things that we still don't understand about this Universe, and how things work. Like "energy". What exactly is "energy" and how exactly does it work? Most "paranormal" activities are unexplained actions of "energy". Those who believe in "ghosts" believe that they can use energy to "manifest" themselves. But this is all theory.
C. The human brain is a remarkable thing, indeed. One of the many things it can do is "trick" people. Yes, the brain can and sometimes does "deceive" its owner. One can see or hear things that are not there. And even crazier: brains can sort of "interact" with other brains. One person's brain is convinced it saw something, and causes another person's brain to be convinced it saw the same thing! How does it do this? I don't know, I'm not a neurologist or psychologist.
3. Scripturally speaking: dead people are dead. As in, they aren't alive in another dimension, heaven, hell, Abraham's bosom... no, they are dead.
Genesis 3:19 By the sweat of your brow you will eat your food until you return to the ground, since from it you were taken; for dust you are and to dust you will return.
Job 9:21-22 Were I flawless, I would not know my own soul; I would reject my life. It is all one. Therefore I say, Both the flawless and wicked one Will He bring to their end.
Psalms 6:5 For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave [Sheol] who shall give thee thanks?
Psalms 104:29 You hide Your face, they are dismayed; You take away their spirit, they expire And return to their dust.
Psalms 146:3-4 Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there is no help. His breath goes forth, he returns to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.
Ecclesiastes 3:19-21 For the destiny of the sons of humanity And the destiny of the beast, It is one destiny for them; As death is for this one, so is death for that one, And one spirit is for all; There is no advantage for the human over the beast, For the whole is vanity. All are going to one place; All have come from the soil, and all return to the soil. Who is knowing about the spirit of the sons of humanity, Whether it is ascending above, And the spirit of the beast, whether it is descending below to the earth?
Ecclesiastes 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
Ecclesiastes 9:10 Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with all your might, for in the grave [Sheol], where you are going, there is neither working nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom.
Ecclesiastes 12:7 And the dust returns to the ground it came from, and the spirit returns to God who gave it.
Ezekiel 18:4, 20 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die... The soul that sinneth, it shall die...
There are plenty more Scriptures to go along with these, but I hope that this is enough to satisfy your curiosity, Scripturally speaking, atleast.
- Daywalker.
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Guys
Can any of you explain this for me?
How is it that people are able to heal other people either being a Christian or not being a Christian? My friend says her knee was healed by a "spiritualist Christian" - a church person. My friend does Rei_Ki and actually healed my headache.
PLACEBO EFFECT, it was going to get better anyway, accidental adjustment in medicine this happens more thn you think....most patient today lack patience
I know people (no christians) who have had thier futures told and they have come true.
Coincidence or good deductive reasoning, perhap they have already know something about the person and are feeding them what they want to hear
I know people who are convinced they have seen ghosts or unexplained events.
Highly suggestible and easy gullible
I believe there is no doubt this stuff exists.
You mentally ascent to this? that is agreeing with the world who are being tossed about regularly on the waves of life
Ray once dismissd it.
He is right...Ray has total faith not belief...he acts and walks his life knowing that God is in total control of all.
Im not so sure i agree with him
You need to study the word and listens to what He is trying to tell you
Whats everyone elses view on this stuff?
I am with Ray on this you need to move out of the land of OZ ;D ;D ;D
Beloved
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This comes to mind
Luk 9:49 And John answered and said, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name; and we forbad him, because he followeth not with us.
Luk 9:50 And Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not: for he that is not against us is for us.
God heals who he wills to heal, they can call it what they want to, but it still God That Does the Healing
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Zander Hi..been awhile.
I went to a visitation last nite (wake) of a dear friend who died suddenly. Oh the junk you hear around a funeral!! Everyone has stories about their aunt, their grannies, and other loved ones....they saw Angels in the room, they smelled the favorite perfume, they saw a light, they saw Jesus, they saw their dead loved ones etc etc....I just smiled or said "Really?". They all also think their departed is immediately in heaven, playing, and happy. I wanted to shout...no she is dead, people!!!!! Read Ecc. 9:5 ...
but I didn't. By the way, thanks Daywalker for the scriptures.
Anyway, peoples minds have a great influence...visions, dreams, the will to WANT to see angels in the room, medicines, hallucinations, exagerrating a tad. Downright lieing in some cases.
I have been healed by tylenol and not been healed by tylenol. I have had hands laid on me numerous times, sometimes I talked myself into what I went up to the altar for, been "slain", I knew the drill so did what was expected and called it a religious experience. So many in Churchianity know the game, and it can play tricks w/ us.
My advice?? Don't trust anyone :D :D except the Bible. Anyone "engrained" in church doesn't have the truth and they are brainwashed...I know I was.
If anyone is left reading this far...sorry I went on so long. My experience last nite is still w/ me. I am sad to lose my friend but I feel sadder for her churchy relatives.
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Gena, I know, what you mean. Its hard that everytime there is a death they say they are in a better place and looking down on us. How in the world could anyone die and look down on this place and be Happy. Thats, like knowing all your loved ones who did not believe are in Hell , while you have a big party in Heaven.
One night I asked my Mother-In - Law why she thought God expected us to forgive our enemies, but he could torture them forever and ever. I said, "God is perfect and he ask us to do something he will not do. We are not perfect , but yet he expects us to forgive and do better then he does.
Then, you show them scriptures that he is the Saviour of the World then they add a but to it. Oh, well I can for sure know what you went through.
The last minister we had was a respector of person. If, you had lots of money he would pat you on the back and want to associate with you. If, not he was not interested. They could walk up and speak to someone right beside you and never look over and speak to you. Well, if that is Love, I guess the dictionary should change the meaning. Also, the forget the scripture that tells us God is no respector of persons.
Well, I use to not think that stuff through. However, being insulted by the Pastor and His wife and watching some being treated well and others not. I got sick of a church like that.
I am so glad these people will not judge me. I prefer the judgement of God.
Well, just had to get it off my chest. LOL
I thank God everyday for leading me to Ray's website.
In His Love,
Marlene
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Marlene, I love that question you asked your mother in law!!! I am going to have to use it now! I hadn't thought about that!!! Thanks. ;)
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Gena, This verse from Ray that I know, I had read for years and did not get it. I used for her too. At first while I was up there she began to see. The other day she stopped and I could tell she did not want to even discuss it. She thinks that only tv ministers teach the wrong things. But, she does not even realized it is in all of Babylon's churches some have some truths and for the most part very little truths.
The verse that Ray showed that God brought a ton of bricks down on my head was this verse.
Job Chapter 4 verse 17 Shall mortal man be more just than God? She did not get it. Goes to show you ,if God does not open your eyes it is not going to happen. But, we can sow some seeds. Who, knows when God will open there eyes. I know, the adversary stole what little she started to understand. See even this shows that free will man think he has. He thinks he can love his enemies and God does not have to. Like I say God is teaching me to be patient. For sure I know he has spent alot of years being patient with me. So, I will be patient with her.
Read the scriptures from Matt. Chapter 18 verse 20 through 35 This here shows how a servant is unable to be as Christ.... and how he corrects those who cannot forgive. I cannot hardly believe they think that God can have one standard for us and another for himself. That, sounds like man to me.
I know this is about something different.
But, these fasle doctrines of Ghost, and the Occult are not of God. Healing can come from God if it is his will. But, again man likes to take the credit.
In His Love,
Marlene
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Job 4:17...wow...that is powerful...I love it and will meditate on it..FOR ME...then maybe the Lord will let me use it someday....I have this habit of only memorizing scripture so I can SHOW someone else how right I am <heehee>...I think I need this one for sure.
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Thanks for th input guys. Its intresting to know your views.
By the way i KNOW dead people are DEAD. I wasnt questioning that.
I do however believe in ghostly manifestations. What they are, i dont know. And also how some peopl can tell the future without necessarily being "Godly" and therefore being givn the Godly gift of prophecy? Its weird. I know this stuff exists. As i say, i have experienced healing before from a non Godly person. Maybe they dont have to be Godly to heal. Maybe they dont have to be Godly to tell prophcy - they are just some of the vessels God uses to do his work.
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Thanks for th input guys. Its intresting to know your views.
By the way i KNOW dead people are DEAD. I wasnt questioning that.
I do however believe in ghostly manifestations. What they are, i dont know. And also how some peopl can tell the future without necessarily being "Godly" and therefore being givn the Godly gift of prophecy? Its weird. I know this stuff exists. As i say, i have experienced healing before from a non Godly person. Maybe they dont have to be Godly to heal. Maybe they dont have to be Godly to tell prophcy - they are just some of the vessels God uses to do his work.
Psalms 40:5 Many are Your marvelous works which You have done, O Yahweh my Elohim, And Your designs for us. There is no one arranging them for You! Should I tell and should I speak of them, They are more plentiful than could be numbered
Isaiah 55:8 For not as My devices are your devices, and not as your ways are My ways, averring is Yahweh."
9 For as the heavens are loftier than the earth, so are My ways loftier than your ways, and my devices than your devices.
There are a lot of things that we will never fully understand in this life. But as long as we stick with the Scriptures and believe what it tells us, then we'll never fall away from God.
John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
I never knew what that meant until I discovered BT. ;D
- Daywalker.
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These manifistations obviously exist. All of those ghost and UFO sitings couldn't have been made up. Especially when more than one person saw them. I've heard stories that would send chills down most people's necks. Sometimes there's even smell and physical pain involved. But I do believe that these things are deceptions. They are put in place to keep people from knowing the truths of God. I guess the biggest test I could go through would be to experience one of these manifestations and say, "they aint aliens and they aint ghostesis. Anyone see that movie Haunting at something or other? I think the deception is real.
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Oh, and by the way:
I see dead people.
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Take two of these 0 0 and call me in the morning :P :D
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Mark, your closing (psallm 100) says it all!!!! :D
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The only time I can think of a Ghost so to speak wandering around is in the OT in 1 Samuel ch 28, I think when King Saul conspired with the witch at Endor to bring up Samual from Sheol. And of course they were both shocked when old Sammy boy appeared, because God did it not them.
So there just ain't no Ghosts floating around other than the Holy Ghost, unless of course God wants one or two familiar spirits flying around for His good purpose. The real demons are in our minds.
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So are we saying here that people that see angels or spirits are not seeing anything but familiar spirits
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Here are some emails that might help here.
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2600.0.html -------
ALL of God's created celestial beings are "messengers." Angel means messenger. From that Perspective, Jesus is a Messenger (Mal. 3:1-2). If these messengers are bad, we might refer to them as devils, demons, OR adversaries, but they are STILL MESSENGERS.
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,8808.0.html --------------
In Scripture, angels, messengers, and ministers are used interchangeably.
Heb 1:7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels [#32] spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.
Greek: #32, aggelos, From aggellō (probably derived from G71; compare G34; to bring tidings); a messenger; especially an "angel"; by implication a PASTOR: - angel, messenger. (Strong's Concordance).
Now then, notice what Paul says concerning Satan and his "ministers"--
2Co 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
2Co 11:15 Therefore it is no great thing if his MINISTERS also be transformed as the MINISTERS of righteousness; whose end [eonian/gehenna/hell/lake of fire JUDGMENT] shall be according to their works.
It is the false ministers (the "ministers of righteousness") of Mystery Babylon--The CHURCH, who are to be judged in this "eonian" fire along with their many millions of followers. See my last Installment: "The Lake of Fire and the Second Death."
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2540.0.html ---------
Good morning Mr. Smith
My question is...... When you die, (physically), why do some spirits still roam around? Don't they know where to go? I know some don't even know they are dead. I have experienced some myself. I am in the Old Apostle church in Pretoria, South Africa and this was the only church that could guide me in a way. I get confused there because spirits speak through some of the members and always seem to be there (the spirits). Is this wrong?
Regards
Michelle
Dear Michelle:
The only spirits "roaming around" are demons, not the spirits of DEAD people.
God be with you,
Ray
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,1910.0.html ---------
There have been probably 5 to 10 thousand volumes written on demons and exorcism. It is not likely that I can explain this subject in five to ten sentences.
There is "possession" and there is "obsession." Many people are obsessed with demons and evil spirits rather than being actually possessed and totally out of control mentally.
Catholic exorcism is more superstition than Scriptural. Protestant ministers try to shout and SCREAM them out of people. I had only a few personal experiences with people who were demonized. With one elderly woman we prayed and one by one Jesus casted out a half dozen or so demons--each with his own name, I might add.
The truth is that we "wrestle against such spiritual wickedness in high places" (Eph. 6:12). It is part of our Christian walk of faith.
The world is filled with "spirits of antichrist." Many Christians worship these spirits. I cast out dozens and dozens of these spirits of antichrist on our bible-truth.com site, and many pastors, theologians, and Christians hate and despise me for doing it. They love these evil spirits. But always remember, that if you have the Spirit of God in you, then:
"Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is He that is in you, than he that is in the world" (I John 4:3-4).
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,5333.0.html -----------
Dear Ray,
I try my best to follow Gods path and live a righteous life but I suffer from anxiety attacks and panic attacks some people in church say it is because I have bad spirits and need to be liberated they are scaring me are they right?
Brenda
Dear Brenda: Don't let those lying charlatans scare you anymore than you already are. Many people suffer from panic attacks, either for no apparent cause or by phobias such as flying on a plane. We are not all "wired" the same. There are many biological and chemical causes for such things that have absolutely nothing to do with "bad spirits" or demons. Some people have food allergies--is that demonism? It's nonsense. Some people outgrow panic attacks, while others slowly overcome them, and get others use medication which can help. But don't be scared into thinking you have bad spirits. The people accusing you, THEY HAVE BAD SPIRITS! This is a trial in your life, just as we all have many trials. Do not become discouraged. We will pray for your victory over this horrible problem.
God be with you,
Ray
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Good post Kat, cheers for that.
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Hi Jacobbsladdr,
You are right about that being a demon that was conjured up. I found an email that Ray explains this witch of Endor thing with Samuel.
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,124.0.html -----
Hi Ray,
Could you tell me if you explain the "calling up" or "bringing up" of Samuel by the woman at Endor for Saul (1 Sam 28:11 - 19) anywhere in your web site's info. This is due to the fact that I believe the Word that when we die we are dead, our souls are in Hades and Hades is a place of no perception etc as mentioned countless times by you as well.
Your knowledge about this will be appreciated,
God be with you,
Anton
Dear Anton:
Saul does not obey or trust God.
So he goes to a pagan inspired witch that are condemned in Israel.
The witch has a familiar spirit--a demon.
Saul asks the witch to call up Samuel's spirit--a pagan teaching.
God actually caused this opportunity to tell Saul his fate by the channel that Saul himself choose.
God revealed the fate of Saul through this witch.
Samuel was never there. Saul assumed that the "old man" had to be Samuel. It was not.
God be with you,
Ray
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Hi jacobbsladdr,
yeah you're right about the Endor thing, my point was that familiar spirits are bound by God's power so it's down to Him how we see them, if we see them, if it's in God's plan for someone to experience seeing something like that, and that these things are still all in our minds.
Several years ago I went on five so called deliverences (exorcisms) for a man in my old Pentecostal church with the Pastor and his son. Basically looking back in hindsight with what I know now concerning what occured over those sessions I have to conclude that the man was mentally disturbed and that my old pastor did absolutely nothing for him. The guy would have probably been better off going to councelling. There was a lot of screaming and spitting in a bowl and little else. After my former pastor had told him he was cured I saw the man a couple of years later and he told me he was still being tormented and that he was still hearing voices in his head as well as feeling that somethings were moving under his skin all the time especially in his brain and back. He also claimed that images like hazy skeletons were running up and down his hallway at night tormenting him by whispering his name.
To him it was all very real yet I could not see a thing even when it was occuring to him and I was standing in his house as it happened. So what was happening to him?
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Ghosts, aliens, physics are all demonic influences
Look, maybe you did poorly in physics class but. . . . . .it's not demonic. Shoulda studied more.
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Ghosts?, There is no such thing. If you have seen one, it may be time for thick glasses or a fat shrink, whichever comes first. Ricky