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Hi Matty,
If I understand correctly, after death we each will return to the earth at the resurrection, either the first when Christ returns or the great white throne when we who remain will face judgment. Meanwhile we sleep in unconcious bliss unaware of the passing of time. Like you I do not favor a painful end, but other than that I have no fear of death.
Ole Indy

It's all good, Bob. If Mike doesn't mind, I'm up for discussing this further.

Mike, I'm thoroughly understanding what you are saying. Please forgive me if it seemed like that, maybe I was trying to high jack your thread or one up you. That wasn't my intent. I saw an opportunity to support you in your prayer for all by attempting to expand my understanding of the verses you quoted.

I've tried to avoid this thread for a while because when I searched my last interaction with Joel, we seemed to share a common quality of a dislike for words. I've pondered more than once whether like Joel, my time on this earth is approaching the end.
This is no pity party and I'm not particularly scared of death(though I'm a pain averse person).
To be frank, sometimes I wish it would all just end in 'sleep'.
We will meet again Joel. Rest.

Hello Porter,

Please understand that I appreciate the great amount of time and effort you put into your response. And in no way do I want to belittle it. You are to be commended for what you have produced, as all scripture and the study thereof is a valuable treasure. But to be frank, my intent was far simpler and just not that deep. It was as simple and straightforward as the verses in my request. I’ll sum it up with another verse and respond no more.

1Ti 1:15  Faithful is the Word and worthy of all acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am chief.

Mike

Porter,
Thanks I thououghly enjoyed your message.
Comments later ??
Indiana Bob

Firstly, I want to apologize as this will be rather long, but I think it's worth it for building up those the Lord is preparing. There is also a tidbit regarding world events at the very bottom. It's nothing political, but it has to do with a worldwide crash of millions of computers that occurred the other day, which, I thought, was interesting.

So Mike, that passage you are quoting sounds pretty straightforward, doesn't it? Not being one who is ever satisfied with literal readings, I'm hoping that there might be something more in that passage. I hope that maybe this will encourage some dialogue concerning something I've always taken for granted, and that is the precise manner in which God will save everyone. Please understand, I'm in no way trying to take anything away from your prayer request, Mike. I think it's a great prayer request, and possibly even greater than we realize. I'll explain, but know that I'm not one hundred percent sold on my own spiritual understanding yet. So all corrections, and perspectives are welcome. If the mods believe I'm out of line, I'll understand if this gets deleted.

So I probably studied and read that whole chapter in 1 Timothy 2 about a hundred times over these past few days. I compared it to as many translations as I could and looked up almost every word in the Greek and how they were being used else where. I also compared that chapter to many other passages in the bible to find some spiritual connection. On top of all that, I searched Ray's papers using various keywords related to the topic, which helped a lot. After studying, I'd reflect and meditate on everything I could remember that might be related to 1 Timothy 2. All this in an effort to “give grace”, but also to “find Jesus” from the inspired words of the prophets and apostles, and then to be where Jesus is now. With all that out of the way…

It seems on a superficial level as though Paul is jumping around different topics a bit in that whole chapter. However, I, personally, think the entire chapter is one in meaning and part of the key for me to understanding that entire chapter of 1 Timothy 2 spiritually is found in 1Ti 2:5,6.

1Ti 2:5  For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
1Ti 2:6  Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

The Mediator, Jesus Christ, does exactly what Paul is exhorting in the very passage Mike quotes from that chapter. Remembering the verse that says, “…as he is, so are we in the world”(1Jn_4:17), I have to ask, did Paul also take up the job of mediator with Christ? I think he may have, yes.

Heb 6:19  We have this hope--like a sure and firm anchor of the soul--that enters the inner sanctuary behind the curtain.
Heb 6:20  Jesus has entered there on our behalf as a forerunner, because He has become a "high priest forever in the order of Melchizedek."

A forerunner is “one that precedes and indicates the approach of another”. The question is, when do we enter the inner sanctuary? The inner sanctuary being a spiritual, invisible place within the inner man and God — us in Him and He in us.

Heb 4:16  Therefore let us approach the throne of grace with boldness, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help us at the proper time.

Is this what Jesus meant in the following verse?

Joh 14:3  If I go away and prepare a place for you, I will come back and receive you to Myself, so that where I am you may be also.

The more I look, the more it seems it's a done deal that we truly are as He is, even now.

2Co 3:6  He has made us competent to be ministers of a new covenant, not of the letter, but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit produces life.

Here's another.

Eph 2:6  He also raised us up with Him and seated us with Him in the heavens, in Christ Jesus,
Eph 2:7  so that in the coming ages He might display the immeasurable riches of His grace in His kindness to us in Christ Jesus.

One more.

Rev 5:10 Thou dost also make them a kingdom and a priesthood for our God, And they shall be reigning on the earth.

There are many who would say it is not possible to be where Jesus is now so long as we are in the flesh, but it appears as though Paul believed differently.

2Co 5:1  For we know that if our earthly house, a tent, is destroyed [...and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it. -Mat_7:27], we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

If Christ is the “down payment” given to us now, are we not with Him where He is?

2Co 5:5  And the One who prepared us for this very thing is God, who gave us the Spirit as a down payment.

Jesus is the down payment of our inheritance; our full inheritance is the earth where we will rule with Him in His Kingdom, but even this is a parable. 

Mat 5:5  Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.

So we come full circle to what Paul exhorted in the chapter of 1 Timothy 2.

1Ti 2:9  In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;
1Ti 2:10  But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works.

This is why I believe that whole chapter is a parable. It makes no sense for Paul to tell us to dress in “modest apparel” in a literal sense and then contrast it with asking us to adorn ourselves with “good works” such as the good works of shamefacedness and sobriety.

If anyone hasn't read Ray's papers on these specific topics, then some of this may not make sense. The things I'm trying to understand have their foundation in the belief that Jesus only taught in parables. Therefore, I must also believe that the Apostles only taught in parables too, seeing how they were inspired by God to write as the Spirit led them to write. I can't explain in detail what every parable means, but I do know they always pertain to the many called and few chosen, as I've seen this myself countless times.

There is a lot more spiritual truth hidden in 1 Timothy 2, but then this “analysis” would have been twice as long had I tried to explain them. I do want to share what I'm learning about the prophet Elijah. Elijah's walk (albeit as a type) is uncannily similar to where Jesus walked, even as similar as when Elijah was “translated” to heaven (Ray explained that Elijah was merely relocated somewhere else). Just like Jesus, Elijah walked in the wilderness for 40 days and 40 nights without food. In the same way, the Israelites under Moses walked the desert for 40 years.

The part about Elijah's story that really struck me was when Jesus explained to whom Elijah was sent (a widow) along with the prophet Elisha, and to whom he was sent to heal. That statement enraged the Jews at Nazareth to the point they brought Jesus to a cliff with the intent to hurl Jesus over it.

Luk 4:25  But I say to you, there were certainly many widows in Israel in Elijah's days, when the sky was shut up for three years and six months while a great famine came over all the land.
Luk 4:26  Yet Elijah was not sent to any of them--but to a widow at Zarephath in Sidon.
Luk 4:27  And in the prophet Elisha's time, there were many in Israel who had serious skin diseases, yet not one of them was healed--only Naaman the Syrian."
Luk 4:28  When they heard this, everyone in the synagogue was enraged.
Luk 4:29  They got up, drove Him out of town, and brought Him to the edge of the hill their town was built on, intending to hurl Him over the cliff.
Luk 4:30  But He passed right through the crowd and went on His way.

I mention this in part because it goes right back to Jesus as the Mediator between man and God. More specifically, what Jesus said just before He gave up His spirit on the cross. There is a disagreement in the Church as to what Jesus really said or meant in the following verses. Some believe those standing near Jesus on the cross misheard Him. Others believe they were mocking Jesus at dead Elijah's expense. Well, the joke is on them because Elijah was dead. 

Mat 27:45 Now from the sixth hour darkness came over the entire land till the ninth hour.
Mat 27:46 Now about the ninth hour Jesus exclaims with a loud voice, saying, "Eloi! Eloi! Lema sabachthani?that is, "My God! My God! Why didst Thou forsake Me?
Mat 27:47 Now some of those standing there, hearing it, said that "He is summoning Elijah.

 Everyone knows this was a prophecy spoken of in Psalms 22. However, not many seem to know that it is also a prophecy of a type of judgment for a specific group of people. Even less know that Elisha petitioned Elijah for a double portion of Elijah's spirit, to which Elijah obliged Elisha, so long as Elisha witnessed Elijah being taken up. This too is a type in and of itself and has a lot to do with us receiving Jesus' spirit by faith.
 
 So in a sense, Jesus really was “summoning” Elijah, because the three and a half years of no rain which brought the drought and famine ended shortly after the sky became dark and cloudy and then began to rain; in the day of Elijah.
 
 1Ki 18:45  In a little while, the sky grew dark with clouds and wind, and there was a downpour. So Ahab got in his chariot and went to Jezreel.
 
 Therefore, what does “summoning Elijah” have to do with Jesus being the Mediator between man and God? As Elijah was being “taken up to heaven”, Elisha was there to witness it, and what he said sounds awfully similar to what Jesus said on the cross just before He died.
 
2Ki 2:11  As they continued walking and talking, a chariot of fire with horses of fire suddenly appeared and separated the two of them. Then Elijah went up into heaven in the whirlwind.
2Ki 2:12  As Elisha watched, he kept crying out, "My father, my father, the chariots and horsemen of Israel!" Then he never saw Elijah again. He took hold of his own clothes and tore them into two pieces [Suddenly, the curtain of the sanctuary was split in two from top to bottom; - Mat 27:51].

(This next part is where I had the hardest time with making a connection, so I'm not one hundred percent sold on it yet, as there are some loose ends I haven't been able to tie. Hence, the reason for requesting corrections and different perspectives from the forum in my opening comment.)

Like Elisha, Jesus was petitioning His Father first on behalf of those to whom the prophets were preparing a people for the lord, second on behalf of the rest of mankind. The Father heard the Son and accepted the petition; the petition being in the form of Jesus laying His life down as an offering of peace. It was, at this moment, that Jesus, in the flesh, entered into the Holy of Hollies behind the curtain of His flesh (of whom His flesh we are) to give gifts first to us and second to all men; which for all men is yet to be testified through Jesus and His Elect in the ages to come.

Heb 10:19  Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,
Heb 10:20  By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;
Heb 10:21  And having an high priest over the house of God;
Heb 10:22  Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

If we are living in the flesh by His faith, then we are who He is in the flesh and are as His fleshy representatives on earth, in the same way The Son represented His Father while in the flesh.

Col 1:20  and through Him to reconcile everything to Himself by making peace through the blood of His cross--whether things on earth or things in heaven.
Col 1:21  And you were once alienated and hostile (enemies) in mind because of your evil actions.
Col 1:22  But now He has reconciled you by His physical body through His death, to present you holy, faultless, and blameless before Him--
Col 1:23  if indeed you remain grounded and steadfast in the faith, and are not shifted away from the hope of the gospel that you heard. This gospel has been proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and I, Paul, have become a minister of it.

Mike, you expressed concern for the end, correct? I too often wonder about it. Spiritually speaking, I believe it's here, and it's been here since Jesus offered Himself.

Mat 24:14  And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Just as Jesus summoned Elijah, I would like to summon the user known as 'eagle' . If it wasn't for God working to inspire eagle with a comment, I might not have been inspired to make this (very lengthy) comment. Though at the time, none of us were able to bear eagle's comment. Eagle's comment (quoted below) is the last comment at the following link.

https://bible-truths.com/forums/index.php/topic,14930.40.html

"Q: Did God forsake His Son on the cross?  A: No !!!

But then the big question is: why did Jesus say ”

"Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?"

I contemplated this last week for the umpteenth time, and suddenly I heard The Spirit say loud and clear: ”mediator”. And no, that does not happen to me on a day to day basis , so I rushed to my computer and started studying .Before I show you the Scriptures, here is definitions of two important words:

From the Freedictionary.com

a mediator
1. One that mediates, especially one that reconciles differences between disputants.
2. Physiology A substance or structure that mediates a specific response in a bodily tissue


To intercede
1. To plead on another's behalf.
2. To act as mediator in a dispute

Now the Scriptures:

For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;1 Timothy 2:5

There it is!!  Jesus spoke on our behalf!! That is why he did not say ”My Father, My Father, why hast thou forsaken me” Jesus was speaking/crying on our behalf,for all mankind.
But there is so much more to this

"Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one." Gal 3:20

Compare this verse to the first verse I quoted, and notice the last 4 words:”...the man Christ Jesus”.
In the ”equation” :  God-mediator-man , Jesus not only became the mediator, He became the man .
Because:
"As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.Rom 3:10-11

It is the age old question ”Adam, where art thou?” being answered by the last Adam :Jesus on the cross with His arms stretched out open wide crying out ” Here I Am”
He became man seeking/pleading with God , and the mediator .
 
Because He cried ”My God, my God...” the following verse has become a reality:

"And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father." Gal 4:6

 "For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.
18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God"  1. Cr 1: 17-18

 I will stop now and wish you and your loved ones a happy easter.
 

Kind regards"
-----------------------------

I love how it made eagle so happy to see this. If they had kept His word, they would have kept yours as well.

I suppose the ultimate question is: can a flesh and blood human enter the Holy of Holies to be where Jesus is? I believe so, yes, especially if you are the temple of God.

Rom 8:8  Those whose lives are in the flesh are unable to please God.
Rom 8:9  You, however, are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, since the Spirit of God lives in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him.

Who are we supposed to be mediating for if we do indeed belong to Christ? I haven't even looked this up yet, but I fully believe it's in there.

Mat 5:43  "You have heard that it was said, Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.
Mat 5:44  But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,
Mat 5:45  so that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. For He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.

Rom 15:1  Now we who are strong have an obligation to bear the weaknesses of those without strength, and not to please ourselves.
Rom 15:2  Each one of us must please his neighbor for his good, in order to build him up.
Rom 15:3  For even the Messiah did not please Himself. On the contrary, as it is written, The insults of those who insult You have fallen on Me.

Eph 4:25  Since you put away lying, Speak the truth, each one to his neighbor, because we are members of one another.

Is it possible that who Paul is exhorting us to prayer for (in 1 Timothy 2), those who are in a “high position” are the same ones within the body of Christ who have exalted themselves above their Creator? Aren't these same ones that adorn themselves with all the bling Paul describes? Sounds familiar, doesn't it?

Rev 17:4  The woman was dressed in purple and scarlet, adorned with gold, precious stones, and pearls. She had a gold cup in her hand filled with everything vile and with the impurities of her prostitution.
Rev 17:5  On her forehead a cryptic name was written: BABYLON THE GREAT THE MOTHER OF PROSTITUTES AND OF THE VILE THINGS OF THE EARTH
Rev 17:6  Then I saw that the woman was drunk on the blood of the saints and on the blood of the witnesses to Jesus. When I saw her, I was utterly astounded.

Do you know why the woman was drunk on the blood of the saints and the witnesses to Jesus? So that we could pray for those that hate us because that is what a mediator does, thereby making peace through His blood.   

Mat 5:9  Blessed are the peacemakers, because they will be called sons of God.

He made peace with us didn't He? Like the woman who learned in “silence with full submission” from the same chapter you cite.

1Pe 2:23  They called him every name in the book and he said nothing back. He suffered in silence, content to let God set things right.

Jesus may have said nothing back, but He did pray for us as He was dying on the cross. It is in this way that He makes us able ministers of a new covenant because we too must take up our cross daily to do good works; to pray, to petition and to make intercession for those who hate us.

Joh 15:18  "If the world hates you, understand that it hated Me before it hated you.
Joh 15:19  If you were of the world, the world would love you as its own. However, because you are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of it, the world hates you.
Joh 15:20  Remember the word I spoke to you: 'A slave is not greater than his master.' If they persecuted Me, they will also persecute you. If they kept My word, they will also keep yours.

I know for a fact you all experience these things, because of what Jesus said above. In time, God will judge righteously so we may all know Him — the 'Prince of Peace'. So praying for all men, especially those in “high positions” is praying for God's will to be done. Thank you, Mike because now I know why it's so important. I really mean that. I think I know Jesus a little better now, even if I may be wrong on certain points.

Again, sorry if this was so long, but what can one do if Jesus leads those who are captive into captivity? So if you made it this far, God bless you.

About that tidbit, did you all hear about what is being dubbed as the world's largest pc crash in human history that occurred last Friday? It was crazy because 911 was down all throughout my state for like 7 hours. Many hospitals, air travel, the trucking industry and banks came to a halt. It just goes to show how fragile our world systems and economy have become, being so reliant on computers and the networks they operate and depend on.  Link below if anyone is interested. Or just search up “CrowdStrike” in any search engine.

https://www.wired.com/story/crowdstrike-outage-update-windows/
I just hope the weird formatting that has been plaguing me doesn't format this weirdly. The preview looks good, so we'll see. Otherwise, if the formatting gets messed up, there is no way for me to fix it without worsening it as these are many words, lol.

This is a little different from what is usually posted on this particular section of the forum. I’m sure there are certain opinions and beliefs concerning current events, but this is a request for prayer and NOT meant to be political. It transcends current events, individuals and countries. Hence, I placed it on the prayer requests. Tomorrow may be the day or we may all “sleep” for many generations before the great day of the Lord. There is no doubt that, not just this country, but the world is presently in turmoil and it could get much worse. But as an early baby boomer, I’ve seen a lot with each time seeming like "this is it". Therefore:

1Ti 2:1  First of all then, I exhort that petitions, prayers, supplications, and thanksgivings be made on behalf of all men,
1Ti 2:2  for kings and all the ones being in high position, that we may lead a tranquil and quiet existence in all godliness and dignity.
1Ti 2:3  For this is good and acceptable before God our Savior,
1Ti 2:4  who desires all men to be saved and to come to a full knowledge of truth.

Mike

I can relate Matty.  Trial after trial.  It seems like there is no rest.  Every day something new to face. But God doesn’t leave us helpless or lost.  There is comfort, edification, counsel in the Word of God.


1 Peter 4:12-14
12 Beloved, do not think it strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened to you; 13 but rejoice to the extent that you partake of Christ’s sufferings, that when His glory is revealed, you may also be glad with exceeding joy. 14 If you are reproached for the name of Christ, blessed are you, for the Spirit of glory and of God rests upon you. On their part He is blasphemed, but on your part He is glorified.

1 Peter 4:17
17 For the time has come for judgment to begin at the house of God; and if it begins with us first, what will be the end of those who do not obey the gospel of God?

Psalm 34:19
19
Many are the afflictions of the righteous,
But the Lord delivers him out of them all.


Let us be prepared and comfort one another:


1 Thessalonians 5
5 But concerning the times and the seasons, brethren, you have no need that I should write to you. 2 For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night. 3 For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape. 4 But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief. 5 You are all sons of light and sons of the day. We are not of the night nor of darkness. 6 Therefore let us not sleep, as others do, but let us watch and be sober. 7 For those who sleep, sleep at night, and those who get drunk are drunk at night. 8 But let us who are of the day be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love, and as a helmet the hope of salvation. 9 For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, 10 who died for us, that whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with Him.
11 Therefore comfort each other and edify one another, just as you also are doing.


Much love to you Matty and may God give you strength and peace during this difficult time. 

Praying for your endurance, Matty. Jesus will finish the good work He has started in you. Just a little while longer, and He will make a way out of the temptation, I just know it. As incredibly difficult as these trials are, they're very precious in perfecting us.

I too hesitated in writing this, as I thought it might be too forward or presumptuous. However, you sounded like you may be at a breaking point, so I just wanted to let you know, as a fellow partaker of Christ, to grab a hold of Christ tightly.

I lack words to thank you all for your prayers.