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=> General Discussions => Topic started by: Nelson Boils on June 03, 2017, 04:36:06 PM
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From the thread "Eating from the beginning until after the flood," JFK asked:"But from the Book of Genesis, please quote a statement from the serpent that was the Truth?"
The serpent says to Eve:
“Even God knows that on the day you eat from it, your eyes will be opened and you’ll become like God, knowing good and evil.” Gen 3:5
God becomes the 2nd witness to this truth stated by the serpent by saying:
"Later, the LORD God said, “Look! The man has become like one of us in knowing good and evil."Gen 3:22
More truths from the Serpent:
“If you are the Son of God, cast yourself down. For it has been written: ‘For he has given charge of you to his angels, and they shall take you into their hands, lest perhaps you may hurt your foot against a stone." Matt 4:6
“All these I will give you, if you will fall at my feet and do homage to me.”Matt 4:9
The Devil mixes truths with lies to deceive the many.
Hope is helps.
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From the thread "Eating from the beginning until after the flood," JFK asked:"But from the Book of Genesis, please quote a statement from the serpent that was the Truth?"
The serpent says to Eve:
“Even God knows that on the day you eat from it, your eyes will be opened and you’ll become like God, knowing good and evil.” Gen 3:5
God becomes the 2nd witness to this truth stated by the serpent by saying:
"Later, the LORD God said, “Look! The man has become like one of us in knowing good and evil."Gen 3:22
More truths from the Serpent:
“If you are the Son of God, cast yourself down. For it has been written: ‘For he has given charge of you to his angels, and they shall take you into their hands, lest perhaps you may hurt your foot against a stone." Matt 4:6
“All these I will give you, if you will fall at my feet and do homage to me.”Matt 4:9
The Devil mixes truths with lies to deceive the many.
Hope is helps.
No, you are all wrong and without understanding.
Jesus told us Satan was without truth because he is a liar and the father of lies.
Paul wrote that Adam was not deceived. He had his eyes wide open. He knew he was sinning.
God said they would become like one of Us in a mocking tone. Mankind is not like God yet. God is in the process of creating mankind in His image.
In tempting Jesus, Satan used Scriptures to tell a lie, just like Satan's priests and ministers do in his church today.
Jesus countered Satan's lies with the true and correct statements from Scriptures.
Jesus said, that we should not try God or put God to a test. Also, that we should worship only God and serve only Him.
Jesus' message to His Elect is for us to come out of her, that is the evil church and the leader of that church, who is Satan.
You must decide if you will follow the Great God or the evil angel of light.
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You need to go up one line to find the purpose of the serpent statements.
Gen 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
Gen 3:5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.
FYI: All the other translations I have on e-Sword use the word "God" and not "gods".
So the serpent inserted a truth as part of his main deception - "Ye shall not surely die"
But the result of the serpents statement is a lie because the woman did die.
Joh 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
The god of this world and the church teach no truths even when a truth is inserted in a statement, the end result is deception.
You cannot say the church teaches truths in some statements and teaches lies on other statements. All they teach are lies.
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Just to add, as Ray pointed out, the scripture accurately says "die to death".
(CLV) And saying is the serpent to the woman, "Not to die shall you be dying,
(DRB) And the serpent said to the woman: No, you shall not die the death.
(LITV) And the serpent said to the woman, Dying you shall not die,
(YLT) And the serpent saith unto the woman, `Dying, ye do not die,
And that's what the church in large measure (as well as all other religions that I know of) teaches. You may die, but you won't really be dead. "Dying, ye do not die." "You live on in some version of 'heaven' or 'hell'."
Those who understand that we are dead when we die (what a revelation!!) are few indeed in religion. I even know some "non-religious" folks who believe in "immortal souls" of some description.
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More truths from the Serpent:
“If you are the Son of God, cast yourself down. For it has been written: ‘For he has given charge of you to his angels, and they shall take you into their hands, lest perhaps you may hurt your foot against a stone." Matt 4:6
“All these I will give you, if you will fall at my feet and do homage to me.”Matt 4:9
The Devil mixes truths with lies to deceive the many.
To which I add:
2Co 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
But they never teach the truth. That's the point.
Just because they say something true does not mean they teach the truth. As I said: It's not what they say but what they teach.
Mat 4:9 And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.
Think about the above statement. Who has the real power to "give thee"? Is that statement you quoted really true?
This started with the assertion that the church teaches some truths. No they don't.
I have yet to hear one truth that the church teaches and I'm still waiting.
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This started with the assertion that the church teaches some truths. No they don't.
I have yet to hear one truth that the church teaches and I'm still waiting.
I don't know if it makes any difference but the assertion was not that "the church teaches some truths" as you've worded it. I never once wrote that and that's not what Ray wrote. He said "there are numerous truths of God that are taught in the church" not just truths but truths of God. Not just one. Numerous. And he was right.... yes there are.
If you believe Rays statement is not true and you want to teach others that Ray was wrong... well it matters very little to me. Why should I care what another man believes.
From The Lake of Fire Part XI
Is it possible that the "depths of God" can co-exist alongside of the "depths of Satan" in the same church? Are not both taught in the Church? No, they are not. However, let me make myself perfectly clear on this matter. I am not suggesting that nothing but the depths of Satan is taught in the Christian Church. That is certainly not true. There are numerous truths of God that are taught in the Church, and there are doctrines and practices of demons that are not taught in the Church. But, therein lies the reason why there is much confusion and contradiction among the different denominations. Error mixed with some truth can be more deceptive than error alone.
-L Ray Smith
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I wonder why if the Church teaches numerous truths of God, why someone cannot clearly state just one truth taught by the great false Church.
Just one truth. Why is that so hard? Put up or shut up.
Maybe I can help. Numerous times Ray taught the Church does not teach truth. One time someone quotes where Ray said the Church teaches numerous truths.
Seeming contradiction. But that is Satan's way. The twisted serpent loves contradictions. It sows doubts. Satan loves to weaken the faith of the Spiritual weak.
Let us consider one apparent truth that all branches of the false Church teach. That apparent truth is, "Jesus died for our sins". Christian simpletons believe that is a truth of God. But it is a lie of Satan.
For you see, they do not believe or teach that Jesus died. They teach that Jesus, along with all mankind, have an immortal soul. That Jesus' body died, but His immortal soul lived on and returned to God.
The immortal soul doctrine is a lie of Satan that he requires taught in his Church. As he taught Eve, "you shall not die". Because you have an immortal soul.
God's Truth is that Jesus actually died. Jesus had no immortal soul. Which is why the Father had to resurrect Him from the dead.
So you see, it may appear the false Church teaches truth. But upon closer examination, the Church teaches all lies. The Church's master, Satan, would never allow God's Truths to be taught.
God's Elect cannot be deceived. God will not permit it.
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I'd put it this way, John:
That "Jesus died for our sins" is true. But when mixed with false theology, and darkened by misunderstanding or worse, it become a lie in the mouths of most christians. Not all, but most. Press many of them (and you won't even have to press hard) and they'll repeat the lie of the serpent.
As a side note, to translate that verse word for word works in a kind of colloquial way. "And the serpent says unto the woman, 'you do not die die'.
Reminds me of middle school when you LIKED somebody, but you didn't LIKE LIKE them. :D
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This started with the assertion that the church teaches some truths. No they don't.
I have yet to hear one truth that the church teaches and I'm still waiting.
I don't know if it makes any difference but the assertion was not that "the church teaches some truths" as you've worded it. I never once wrote that and that's not what Ray wrote. He said "there are numerous truths of God that are taught in the church" not just truths but truths of God. Not just one. Numerous. And he was right.... yes there are.
If you believe Rays statement is not true and you want to teach others that Ray was wrong... well it matters very little to me. Why should I care what another man believes.
From The Lake of Fire Part XI
Is it possible that the "depths of God" can co-exist alongside of the "depths of Satan" in the same church? Are not both taught in the Church? No, they are not. However, let me make myself perfectly clear on this matter. I am not suggesting that nothing but the depths of Satan is taught in the Christian Church. That is certainly not true. There are numerous truths of God that are taught in the Church, and there are doctrines and practices of demons that are not taught in the Church. But, therein lies the reason why there is much confusion and contradiction among the different denominations. Error mixed with some truth can be more deceptive than error alone.
-L Ray Smith
We need to parse Rays words more carefully.
Is it possible that the "depths of God" can co-exist alongside of the "depths of Satan" in the same church? Are not both taught in the Church? No, they are not.
1Co 2:10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
So the "depths of God" are NOT taught in the church because they are 'revealed' by God's spirit.
Error mixed with some truth can be more deceptive than error alone.
This is the key. Some truth is mixed in. But those truths are not the doctrine being taught and NOT the "depths of God." - Those truths are used to deceive!
If you ask a church goer they will repeat a truth but only as part of the greater false doctrine.
And we need to be careful when it comes to L. Ray Smith.
Even though he is easily the most inspired teacher in print or on the Internet (IMO), he was not perfect.
1Th 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
It's up to every one of us to "prove all things."
One thing that separated Ray from other teachers is he publicly changed when God revealed the truth to him on a subject.
Most preachers would rather cut off their right arm than admit error because that would be admitting God did not inspire them in the first place.
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So the "depths of God" are NOT taught in the church because they are 'revealed' by God's spirit.
Reminds me of this;
1Jn 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
Ray was certainly the instrument that God used to lead me to truth but Ray didn't teach me anything himself. I read some of his various articles many times until I 'got it'. It's God's spirit that leads us into the truth and keeps us there. I have not sought out another teacher since Ray died, I don't need another teacher. God is slowly teaching me many things that I can say that I learned from no man....and that is the way it's supposed to be.
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I wonder why if the Church teaches numerous truths of God, why someone cannot clearly state just one truth taught by the great false Church.
Just one truth. Why is that so hard? Put up or shut up.
Maybe I can help. Numerous times Ray taught the Church does not teach truth. One time someone quotes where Ray said the Church teaches numerous truths.
Seeming contradiction. But that is Satan's way. The twisted serpent loves contradictions. It sows doubts. Satan loves to weaken the faith of the Spiritual weak.
Let us consider one apparent truth that all branches of the false Church teach. That apparent truth is, "Jesus died for our sins". Christian simpletons believe that is a truth of God. But it is a lie of Satan.
For you see, they do not believe or teach that Jesus died. They teach that Jesus, along with all mankind, have an immortal soul. That Jesus' body died, but His immortal soul lived on and returned to God.
The immortal soul doctrine is a lie of Satan that he requires taught in his Church. As he taught Eve, "you shall not die". Because you have an immortal soul.
God's Truth is that Jesus actually died. Jesus had no immortal soul. Which is why the Father had to resurrect Him from the dead.
So you see, it may appear the false Church teaches truth. But upon closer examination, the Church teaches all lies. The Church's master, Satan, would never allow God's Truths to be taught.
God's Elect cannot be deceived. God will not permit it.
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Very well stated Arion. And that may be one of the reasons that we who are called (?) are being kept apart and not all part of a single congregation and instead a scattered group attached to the true vine. God know how best to inspire us and keep us from harm or from complacency of thought.
Indiana Bob
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We need to parse Rays words more carefully.
Is it possible that the "depths of God" can co-exist alongside of the "depths of Satan" in the same church? Are not both taught in the Church? No, they are not.
Dennis you said "we need to parse Rays words more carefully".... and then you finished your quote just before Ray said "However, let me make myself perfectly clear on this matter.." sounds like Ray was about to make himself perfectly clear on this matter.. so that there could be no misunderstanding or twisting of his teaching.. his teaching. Not his emails. His public teaching.
Let's read what he said he wanted to make perfectly clear..
"However, let me make myself perfectly clear on this matter. I am not suggesting that nothing but the depths of Satan is taught in the Christian Church. That is certainly not true. There are numerous truths of God that are taught in the Church, and there are doctrines and practices of demons that are not taught in the Church."
Not once did I ever say that the "depths of God" are taught in the church so there is no disagreement there.
I'm not making this up. I'm not misunderstanding Rays public teaching. I'm not pulling up an old email. I'm not twisting Rays words. I'm not "teaching" anyone. All I'm doing is agreeing with Rays perfectly clear statement, whereas some of you do not agree with his perfectly clear statement.
That's all that is going on here. Someone is agreeing with Rays statement and others are disagreeing and demanding that the one agreeing with Rays statement prove Rays statement to be true! I won't. I'm not a teacher. It's not my job to discern for anyone else or to chew your meat for you.
I don't believe anything else needs to be said on my part.
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From Dennis:
Error mixed with some truth can be more deceptive than error alone.
This is the key. Some truth is mixed in. But those truths are not the doctrine being taught and NOT the "depths of God." - Those truths are used to deceive!
If you ask a church goer they will repeat a truth but only as part of the greater false doctrine.
And that's how "many truths of God are taught in the churches".
Might have been better if Ray had said "spoken" or "mentioned" in the churches. But let me ask this. If it weren't for the churches, would YOU have ever heard of any of this? Would you know what the serpent said to Eve? I wouldn't have. Not even if I had found a bible in a ditch.
The death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ is taught in the churches. The Sermon on the Mount is taught in the churches. Psalms and Proverbs are taught in the churches. There's a few "truths of God" taught in the churches. But if I went, I'd "walk out" after the scripture reading and before most of the hymns and certainly the preaching, because that's likely all the "truth" I was going to hear.
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Reading through this thread reminded me of something else Ray said that may or may not be of some help. So I'll just paste it here. Sorry it's a bit of a scroll lol.
Ray is showing the contrast of what they (theologians) claim to believe and teach verses what they actually believe and wouldn't teach. Like half truths but never the less all in vain. I wonder if this is what Ray meant when he said they teach numerous truths mixed with lies? I know it's hard to know for sure since Ray isn't here to tell us.
https://bible-truths.com/lake2.html
THEY SPEAK WITH FORKED TONGUE
Most all Christian theologians would claim to believe the first statement of Scriptural Truth that I present below, especially when I cite a Scripture verse with it, but they will then contradict and refuse to teach the second statement of Truth. Here are a few examples:
Do they believe the fire in I Cor.3:15 burns mans' works, but not the man himself? Yes.
But do they teach that this same fire in Rev.20:15 also burns works, not the man? No.
Do they believe that God is the Creator of ALL? Yes.
But do they teach that God created EVIL as He says in (Isa. 45:7)? No.
Do they believe that God is absolutely and totally sovereign (Eph. 1:11)? Yes.
But do they teach that God exercises sovereignty over man's supposed "free" will? No.
Do they believe that Jesus Christ IS the Saviour of the whole world (I Jn 4:14)? Yes.
But do they teach that Jesus Christ will SAVE the whole world? No.
Do they believe that presently Christ only has immortality (I Tim. 6:16)? Yes.
But do they teach the truth therefore that men's souls are mortal and not immortal? No.
Do they believe that the original manuscripts of God's Word were inerrant? Yes.
But do they teach us that the King James translation, which they say is "inerrant" has gone through THOUSANDS of error corrections since 1611? No.
Do they believe that the soul that sins shall DIE (Ezek. 18:4)? Yes.
But do they teach that souls of deceased sinners are actually DEAD? No.
Do they believe there are many cults today that need exposing? Yes.
But do they teach that Christendom, by its OWN definitions, is also a cult? No.
Do they believe that Sodom is "suffering the vengeance of eternal [aeonian] fire? Yes.
But do they teach that Sodom will be restored to their former estate (Ezek. 16:55)? No.
Do they believe in a future resurrection of dead people back to life (John 5:29)? Yes.
But do they teach that a resurrection is imperative for dead people to live again? No.
Do they believe the first half of I Cor. 15:22 that "For as in Adam ALL die?" Yes.
But do they teach the last half, "even so in Christ shall ALL be made alive?" No.
Do they believe that "...the end of the world [Gk: aion -- age]" ends in Mat. 24:3? Yes.
But do they teach that this same "aion -- age" in Matt. 25:41 & 46 will also end. No.
Do they believe that Jn 3:13 & Acts 2:34 are truthful Scripture (II Tim. 3:16)? Yes.
But do they teach this truth that "NO man," including David, has gone to heaven? No.
Do they believe ALL God purposed, spoke, and willed (Isa. 46:10-11), He will do? Yes.
But do they teach that God's "will" to save all, I Tim. 2:4, etc., will be done? No.
Do they believe that Satan lied when he told Eve, "thou shalt not surely die?" Yes.
But do they teach the truth that sinners really do DIE at death as God has stated? No.
Do they believe that the Apocryphal books do not belong in the Bible? Yes.
But do they teach us that the 1611 so-called "inerrant" King James Bible contained fourteen such books, including "Tobit," "Judith," "The idol Bel and the Dragon"? No.
Do they believe that Christ is totally responsibility for our salvation? Yes.
But do they teach that "no man can" come to Christ of himself (John 6:44)? No.
Do they believe that Satan is the greatest sinner of all? Yes.
But do they teach Jn. 8:44 which states that Satan "sinned from the beginning?" No.
Do they believe Christ really died for the sins of the world? Yes.
But do they teach that Jesus Christ was dead when they placed Him in the tomb? No.
Do they believe the many Scriptures that liken death to "sleep?" Yes.
But do they teach that dead people are unconscious, "sleeping" till resurrection? No.
Do they believe that the last enemy to be destroyed [Gk: abolished] is death? Yes.
But do they teach that ALL death, including the second death, will be abolished? No.
Do they believe that all things are possible with God (Mark 10:27)? Yes.
But do they teach that it is possible for God to save nonbelievers after they die? No.
Do they believe that every tongue in heaven and earth will confess Jesus as LORD? Yes.
But do they teach that the Holy Spirit inspires this sincere voluntary act (I Cor. 12:3)? No.
Do they believe that good and evil are both in the same tree of knowledge? Yes
But do they teach that good and evil both come from the same root source? No.
Do they believe that God absolutely "knows all" (I John 3:20)? Yes.
But do they teach that God knows in advance ALL who will reject Christ? No.
Do they believe that God's love will never fail (I Cor. 13:8)? Yes.
But do they teach that God's love will never fail in saving the world He loves? No.
Do they believe the apostles spoke in foreign languages in Acts 2:4-11? Yes.
But do they teach that of the hundreds of thousands who claim to speak in tongues today, not one of them can speak in multiple languages which they did not already study? No.
Do they believe that the masses did not understand Christ's parables (Mat. 13:13)? Yes.
But do they teach that Christ purposely didn't want them to understand, (Vs. 14-17)? No.
Do they believe the Old Covenant contained the Ten Commandments (Deut.4:12)? Yes.
But do they teach a New Covenant which contains a much higher law (Heb. 8:8-9)? No.
Do they believe that God created all the spirits and messengers of heaven? Yes.
But do they teach that God also created Satan who was always His adversary? No.
Do they believe that loving our enemies means doing good and not evil to them? Yes.
But do they teach that God will never subject His enemies to eternal torture and evil? No.
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Bingo. Thanks, Porter.
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I'm pretty simple minded so I like to keep things simple.
I look at it like this: The church will quote just enough truth to convince you to believe their lies!
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I should probably leave well enough alone but...
The 'church' teaches to forgive your neighbor, to give to people in need , to take care of widows and orphans and feed the hungry. They teach martial faithfulness and most of them actually understands who may enter into a marriage. They teach prayer, they teach submission. They teach life, not abortion. They teach life, not assisted suicide . They teach the practice of answering a harsh word with a mild one. They teach sacrifice. Some of them teach their members to be pacifists - some do not. They teach to not be easily offended. They teach that our hope does not lie in this place on this earth. They teach that Jesus is coming back for those who are His. I could go on and on - and after a lifetime of being in 'church' I know what I'm speaking about , But I also know where they are off the mark - egregiously mistaken and woefully misguided. But, love covers a multitude of sins . My time is better served proclaiming the greatness of our God , and not chastising the throngs whose eyes have not yet been open.
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Poor, poor Jesus. He tells us to come out of the great false church. Why do we have to come out of her if they teach the truth?
Jesus tells us to pray and do good works in private. That's Jesus being Jesus. But every Christian I know prays in public and let's everyone know the good they do. The fakers also want you know how humble they are and how much they love everyone.
Makes me sick to my stomach, which is why I avoid all religious people.
Every one of their teachings is a lie and can be refuted by those with God's Spirit.
Remember Jesus just walked among the seven churches. He did not rule the churches.
Satan rules the false church and appears as an angel of light. He teaches lies through the false church, which deceive the Many and spiritual simple minded.
Follow Jesus when He says come out of her. But the Many will follow Satan, their Master, until Jesus sets them free and saves them from the crooked serpent.
P.S. The great false church is coming down and will be crushed by the Great Stone cut out without hands. Repent and save yourselves. Easy way or hard way. But eventually, Jesus will rule in the temple of all our hearts.
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I stand by what I said. You should try love, compassion, mercy at some point JFK . Knowledge puff up - if all someone has is how right they are, I'm wondering how much they truly have.
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I stand by what I said. You should try love, compassion, mercy at some point JFK . Knowledge puff up - if all someone has is how right they are, I'm wondering how much they truly have.
You lack understanding of what is the true love of God.
Your idea of love is what Satan teaches in his false Christian church. The Father of lies teaches a false love.
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wow John, I've been here for nearly 8 years and deserve better treatment then that. Are you really such a bitter old man?
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wow John, I've been here for nearly 8 years and deserve better treatment then that. Are you really such a bitter old man?
Well, I do feel like an old man. No country for old men.
I am sorry if I hurt your feelings. In my experience, every time a man has a conflict with a woman, the man loses.
But I am a lot nicer than Jesus. He called Peter, Satan.
Also, poor Peter, in Antioch, Paul got into Peter's face over his actions.
But I mean you no disrespect. Please forgive this old man.
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Let's be certain who we are:
For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:
But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;
And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are: 1Co 1:26-28
From Lake of Fire 10:
WHERE IS THE SYNAGOGUE OF SATAN?
The synagogue of Satan is located in the churches-in The Church!
And where did Jesus say the synagogue of Satan is located? Same place-in the Church:
"And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write... I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews [in the Smyrna church], and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan... And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write... I will make them of the synagogue of Satan [in the Philadelphia church], and are not but do lie..." (Rev. 2:8 & 9; 3:7 & 9.)
"For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed as into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the minister of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their work."
"Come OUT of her My people..." and "He that overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God, and he shall be My SON" (Rev. 18:4, & 21:7.)
From Lake of Fire 11:
THE GREATEST DEPTH OF EVIL IS FOUND ONLY IN THE CHURCH
There is no greater evil taught in the Church today that the doctrine of "eternal torment." This doctrine has no validity in the Scriptures. Even though this doctrine has its origin in paganism, most pagan and heathen nations have long forsaken this hideous teaching. There is nothing, absolutely nothing, that can be conceived by the mind of man or demon, that is more deplorable, detestable, and disgusting than the thought of being physically, mentally, and spiritually tortured for all eternity.
Everything said about the church by octoberose can be true. But their doctrines are contrary to the truth.
All this is by design. So let's not get upset.
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"Every one of their teachings is a lie and can be refuted by those with God's Spirit."
Actually there are numerous truths of God taught in the church. Not only are there numerous truths of God that are taught in the church, there are doctrines and practices of demons that are not taught in the church. But that's what is so deceptive about the Christian church. Some truth mixed in with error is more deceptive than error alone.
Perhaps being able to properly discern between good and evil is necessary in order to understand the difference between truths of God (not depths of God) and doctrines of demons that are taught in the church.. and Rays teaching.
Heb 5:14
But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.
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But their truths are surrounded by doctrinal lies.
It is impossible for them to discern between good and evil because God blinds them. "But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age." They are not full of age (mature).
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But their truths are surrounded by doctrinal lies.
It is impossible for them to discern between good and evil because God blinds them. "But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age." They are not full of age (mature).
I fully agree.
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Matthew 13:33-Another parable spake he unto them; The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.
Matthew 16:6-Then Jesus said unto them, Take heed and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and Sadducees.
11-How is it that ye do not understand that I spake it not to you concerning bread, that ye should beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees?
12-Then understood they how that he bade them not beware of the leaven of bread, but of the DOCTRINE of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.
Matthew 15:9-But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
The names have changed over the years, but we should beware in this day and age also.
Joel
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But their truths are surrounded by doctrinal lies.
It is impossible for them to discern between good and evil because God blinds them. "But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age." They are not full of age (mature).
What makes it even more so deceptive Dennis, is that often times you can go to church and hear it taught that Jesus Christ died for your sins.. period. You don't automatically hear it taught that they believe that Jesus was conscious in some other dimension. You'd be pulled in with the one truth that Jesus died for your sins. Maybe the church (like the one I went to) leaves it at that and you'd have to press them to find out what lies they attached to individual truths or what their official church doctrine is.
Recently I'd been emailing back and forth with an old friend who's a pastor. I engaged in emailing him because he made a public social media post which he was seemingly asking a question directed towards those who do not attend church anymore. We had to email back and forth several times with me asking him what exactly he believed before he'd admit that his doctrine included eternal hell and all that.
It's been my experience with church folks that they take the attitude of "lets just agree to believe in Jesus and love people" and they do not like to be questioned about their official church doctrine. In this pastors case, he said that people make their doctrines their god, and in his eyes we should just love God and love people and keep it as simple as that.
Even if some truths of God are taught in the church, if you can discern between good and evil you will be able to discern that they cannot. That's what I've seen anyway. Based on the church I grew up in. They sometimes teach truths, they believe lies, and it isn't always public what the lies are that they believe... but they cannot discern between good and evil. That much you can know by their fruits. They don't try and hide that because they can't even discern that they can't discern. They're naked and they don't know it.
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Joh 12:40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.
2Co 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
Mat 15:14 Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.
Isa 6:10 Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and convert, and be healed.
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And then there's this:
31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 And he will place the sheep on his right, but the goats on the left. 34 Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, 36 I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.’ 37 Then the righteous will answer him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink? 38 And when did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you? 39 And when did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?’ 40 And the King will answer them, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, [6] you did it to me.’
Not a bit of doctrine in there ... it leaves me- bewildered.
And you know what comes next. -- those who never knew him who go to eternal punishment .
I never saw a Bible that said differently till I got here . Not until recently could I compare Greek with English All those years and people only had KJV and finally a few others .What were they to think ? .Of course the 'scholars ' should have known, but they are the most blinded .
But I knew something wasn't right about what we were being taught- but I could not find a way out of it. I'm just saying , I know there are many who give their lives to God who think he is harsh and unforgiving but they have no where else to go because they also know Jesus hung on a Cross for them. The only difference between me and them is when I read the Truth I recognized it --but it took a long time. Maybe I heard parts of it before and rejected it ?
There are still doctrines I struggle with. I am not convinced about Mystery Babylon and the beast and the antichrist . Other UR teachings are not the same as Rays. There's still so much unanswered for me and reading the LOF for the fourth time does not answer them. If I'm judged on that I'm going to be in trouble .
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Just published: https://youtu.be/QhMjy6JsrN4 (https://youtu.be/QhMjy6JsrN4)
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(some back and forth posts removed)
One and a half threads and 4 pages total. Let's not argue past each other. There are points made by every poster which are valid. There is also over-statement and over-simplification. I see no 'repentance' from 'correction', so is there any need to continue?
I'll reopen the thread if someone can convince me there is. The other mods are under no such restriction.
For now, Ray's video linked by Dennis above is a good place to at least 'pause'. Nobody is going to go "beyond" it in making a new pronouncement.
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Thanks Dave.