bible-truths.com/forums
=> Email to Ray => Topic started by: Craig on March 27, 2006, 02:45:57 PM
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Hi, I have 2 questions. Is it wrong for guys to have long hair? I do, and my grandma's always telling me to get it cut and she says the bible says it's wrong. She's talking about 1 Cor. 11:14.
COMMENT: I'm an not sure what question you could have regarding this verse. Yes, it is a shame for a man to have long and/or curley hair like a woman.
Does God answer prayers from the mainstream Christians?
COMMENT: The Scriptures tell us that God hears ours prayers because we do those things that are in accord with His will. Most Christians do not do what is in accord with God's will. God can, however, answer anyone He desires to answer. Most prayers around the world go unanswered. I will be writing a paper in the near future entitled: "The Answer to Unanswered Prayers."
God be with you,
Ray
Thanks,
Jim
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This is one thing i disagree with Ray on. ACting like a woman with the intent of being a woman might be wrong, but just having long hair? There cant be anything wrong with that. besides what do you class as "long"? Is 12" long? Is 6" long? Where is the cut off point, if you excuse the pun...?
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This is one thing i disagree with Ray on. ACting like a woman with the intent of being a woman might be wrong, but just having long hair? There cant be anything wrong with that. besides what do you class as "long"? Is 12" long? Is 6" long? Where is the cut off point, if you excuse the pun...?
This is a good question; how about women, seems to me there is a whole lot of women who wear their hair very short. Does my hair have to be shorter than theirs?
Gosh I hope not :)
Darren
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This may not be the best time to say this, but my hair is over 4 inches long and really wavy. In truth when I am dating I do cut my hair really short though. Right now I am not dating so why worry about it. :shock: :oops: =;
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Well i like to think this forum is not a judgmental one RV. If you have hair at 4", so what? Its not the hair, its the fruits of the spirit.
There are even women who are hairy, like monkeys. What if they cant help it?
What classifies as short hair on a woman?
Like i say, its the intent. If youre a lady boy, thats different.
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How about black people, who have naturally curly hair? Do the men have to buy hair straightning kits or go to a hairdresser to get straight hair? Why did God give the black men naturally curly hair?
What about a woman who is going through cancer treatments, and has to have her hair short? Or, what if she is losing her hair?
This scripture has to do with head coverings, not hair length.
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Here is another response by Ray regarding this subject on his site:
Dear Tad:
The "long hair" of I Cor. 11:14 is not speaking solely of "long" hair, but, tressed hair or tresses, ringlets of curled hair, or tufts.
It is much the same principle as with you question regarding women wearing jeans or pants. The Scriptures tell us that men should not wear "what pertains to a woman" and women should not wear "what pertains to a man." But what pertains to a woman and what pertains to a man? Are skirts solely a woman's apparel while long pants solely a man's apparel?
Women have worn "pants" for thousands of year and men have worn skirts (and still do in Scotland during festive occasions). It is not the item so much as the intent of the item. Mrs. Bush our First Lady wears long pants all the time and she looks quite nice and feminine. And I hardly think that anyone would consider the rough and tough firemen of New York to be feminine in their "skirts" when they perform as a bagpipe unit.
But one can wear long and curly tufted hair to APPEAR feminine as a woman, and that certain is not becoming a man. Likewise a woman can wear a crew cut which likewise is unbecoming.
Such articles as feminine makeup, panties, and high-heeled shoes are definitely feminine and should not be worn by men. Gays and queers dress in ways that SHAME their gender.
It may be proper for a church to have a "dress code" for different church functions. The problem could be, however, that these codes go to the extreme. Most men would agree that a woman is much more sexy in a short skirt and high heels than in jeans and tennies, wouldn't you agree? Maybe this thing of proper dress can be likened to the judge who said, "I don't know how to precisely define pornography, BUT I SURE KNOW IT WHEN I SEE IT"!
God be with you,
Ray
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Yeah, I think the point is really what the intent is.
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I play guitar and I use to play in bands. In the late 80"s I had hair longer than my wifes. When I cut my hair I kept some of it and it was nearly 24 inches in lenth. Of course my walk with God then was some what of a blur or stagger or non-existant. Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God so that would include the hair on your head also. I dont think God minds what your hair looks like. By the way my hair isnt that long anymore. The aquanet is to expensive
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I love long hair. Being a Southern woman it just seems to go together. We have long, big hair and a slow drawl! I like longer hair on men too. Maybe it's a throw back to my days of youth. But whatever, I like it! I wear pants and shorts and dresses too. I don't think I can be mistaken for a man and most men I know can't be mistaken for a woman. I think we worry too much about things like that. God just cares what is in our hearts.
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Hi, I have 2 questions. Is it wrong for guys to have long hair? I do, and my grandma's always telling me to get it cut and she says the bible says it's wrong. She's talking about 1 Cor. 11:14.
COMMENT: I'm an not sure what question you could have regarding this verse. Yes, it is a shame for a man to have long and/or curley hair like a woman.
Does God answer prayers from the mainstream Christians?
COMMENT: The Scriptures tell us that God hears ours prayers because we do those things that are in accord with His will. Most Christians do not do what is in accord with God's will. God can, however, answer anyone He desires to answer. Most prayers around the world go unanswered. I will be writing a paper in the near future entitled: "The Answer to Unanswered Prayers."
God be with you,
Ray
Thanks,
Jim
Hi everyone,
Am I missing something, I thought Ray's stance on man's free will was that man could only do what God wills. How can "most christians" go against God's will?
Somebody please help me with this cause I am completely confused.
feat
PS, Ray is certainly entitled to his own opinion about long hair and curls on men but his comment about "gays and queers" is surprising to me.
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it is a shame for a man to have long and/or curley hair
(http://members.aol.com/abareck/images/god%20jesus%20christ.jpg)
Well said.
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Do you think if you have to ask the question maybe it deserves a little sarcasmn.????Ask your Creator Our Father,who desires to fellowship with you.O r take the easy way and let someone give you your answers,there are denominations who take it upon themselves to give you these answers, the scriptures say it is a shame for a man to have long hair and they also say we should not trim the edges of our beards.Our fellowship is with God the Father and His son Jesus Christ.The just by faith shall be living.love and peace.Remember Samson.
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it is a shame for a man to have long and/or curley hair
Well said.
Sorin most pictures of Jesus are not of Jesus but of Zeus, or to be more accurate the statue of Zeus at Olympia.
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I wasn't going to post anything in this thread but I think some of us are missing the point of what Paul said and it's relationship to the time he was living in. I believe it has more to do with custom more than any specific or literal length of hair. I know the common perception is of a Jesus with long flowing hair, would Paul have condemned Jesus? Would the other apostles allowed it if he was? I believe it has more to do with offending others, the sheep still in need of milk. Let us look at it spiritually instead of as carnal "rules" of dress code.
We should not project ourselves as radical in style or dress or manner, nor should we be perceived as someone who flouts custom or decorum in regard to how we appear, what we eat, etc. What is the point of offending a brother or sister and then expect them to seriously ponder our beliefs.
I must admit I see someone with a shaved head on one side of his head and long hair on the other side, pierced nose, ears, tongue & naval, tattoos all over the body, I tend to think this person may not have much to offer me in regard to reason, carnal or spiritual. This may be an extreme example but I think you get my point.
This points to anything that may offend others but is not really critical to our salvation, it is not that we water down the Word or compromise our beliefs in regard to our Lord but why would we present ourselves as an antagonist, we will repel some that we may have reached otherwise.
1Co 8:13 Wherefore, if meat make my brother to offend, I will eat no flesh while the world standeth, lest I make my brother to offend.
Joe
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Hey Bobby, I think the posts you are thinking about regarding "gays" was something posted by love_magnified at a 3:13 p.m. post. Ray must have been asked about this before and responded . Hope this helps and doesn't hurt!
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wHERE IN THE WORLD DID YOU GET ANYTHING ABOUT gAYS IN THIS EMAIL??????
Just wondering!!!
And I would sugest if you have issues with Ray it would be best if you emailed Ray and discuss them with him!!
bobby
Hi bobby,
Thanks for the suggestion, I think that's best. I really don't have issues with Ray, I was just taken aback by the comment and what I thought I understood about the absence of free will. I'll consider emailing after I spend some more time reading. Maybe I can end my own confusion by rereading some things at BT.
See love_magnified's post for your other capitalized question.
feat
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Hi Joe I see what you are saying,should I if I have short and it offends someone should I grow it long and if me loving my enemies causes someone to be offended should I quit or say much of what we beleive is truth is causing most of the called to stumble or be offended should we quit telling the truth.In matt 15:11 -14 the called were offended or stumbled,as He is so are we in the world.Is Yashua a stone of stumbling?I try not to offend a brother.James 3:2For in many things we offend all.love davey
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it is a shame for a man to have long and/or curley hair
Well said.
Sorin most pictures of Jesus are not of Jesus but of Zeus, or to be more accurate the statue of Zeus at Olympia.
I still firmly believe Jesus did NOT have short hair, nor did he wear pants. so there. if it's shameful for men to have long hair, then it was shameful for Jesus also.
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Also what's with all these rules? it feels like I'm back in Babylon all of a sudden.
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I agree Sorin its just hair.I had long hair and short hair and Im sure Gods love towards me was the same either way. I had friends that belonged to churches and it was all rules-wear this wear that put your hair in a bun, cut your hair. Its all bondage.
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I wasn't going to post anything in this thread but I think some of us are missing the point of what Paul said and it's relationship to the time he was living in. I believe it has more to do with custom more than any specific or literal length of hair
I think you've nailed it.
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it is a shame for a man to have long and/or curley hair
(http://members.aol.com/abareck/images/god%20jesus%20christ.jpg)
Well said.
Sorin,
that pic of Christ you posted is extremely pagan it hurts to look at it, I highly doubt Christ looked anything like that pic.... in fact we aren't told Christ had long hair at all, so it's merely conjecture on that point. Notice the SUN behind Christ's head, this is a classic cultic/mythological form of art to express DIVINE POWER, also how the robe is pulled up into a portion of a triangle.....I bet I could find more if I studied it longer....
Anyhow, that being said, I also agree it's not correct to condemn someone or even find spiritual fault in someone with "long" hair, I mean how in the world do you define LONG? That eliminates the "physical condemnation" of this completely...the point is obviously, to have long hair to "look like a women" as in the intention of the heart, which IS what defiles us, not hair.....it's to desire "being feminine", all the guys I know with long hair, have this be the LAST goal on their mind.....
I grew up in a strict pentecostal church that was obsessed with me and my brother's long hair (we played "christian metal" back then....), to the point of threatening hell fire on us if we did not cut it.....of course, before leaving that den of hypocrisy, we would just mention Samson's story (being just as carnal, it's all we had to go on, what can I say.... lol) and ask "How could God give this man power because of His long hair, and then turn around now and expect us to literally cut it now because its important enough to send us to hell forever"....not the best argument, but it shut them up usually....
Anyways, it's what's WITHIN a man that defiles us, if our hair does this (or unwashed hands), then Christ bold faced lied....I guess take your pick everyone. I have.
[ironically I have short hair now, nothing to do with my choice, just job circumstance, etc... LOL] :P
God Bless,
- Brett
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Sorin,
that pic of Christ you posted is extremely pagan it hurts to look at it, I highly doubt Christ looked anything like that pic.... in fact we aren't told Christ had long hair at all, so it's merely conjecture on that point.
True, but we are told Jesus was a Jew. and that's good enough for me to
suggest that most likely he had long hair. and does anyone doubt that He didn't wear pants?
Notice the SUN behind Christ's head, this is a classic cultic/mythological form of art to express DIVINE POWER, also how the robe is pulled up into a portion of a triangle.....I bet I could find more if I studied it longer....
Well isn't Christ the Divine Saviour? then what's wrong with a Sun symbolizing Divine Power for someone who is Divine?
Besides, I just did a google search for Jesus, to find a pic I could use for that post. :lol:
I didn't really stop to ponder the sun and the triangulars and what not.
Anyhow, that being said, I also agree it's not correct to condemn someone or even find spiritual fault in someone with "long" hair, I mean how in the world do you define LONG? That eliminates the "physical condemnation" of this completely...the point is obviously, to have long hair to "look like a women" as in the intention of the heart, which IS defiles us.....to "be more feminine", all the guys I know with long hair, have this be the LAST goal on their mind.....
Right and most guys that have long hair nowadays are in rock bands and they're not trying to become chicks, they're trying to get chicks. :lol:
I grew up in a strict pentecostal church that was obsessed with me and my brother's long hair (we played "christian metal" back then....), to the point of threatening hell fire on us if we did not cut it.....of course, before leaving that den of hypocrisy, we would just mention Samson's story(being carnal it's all we had to go on, what can I say.... lol) and ask "How could God give this man power because of His long hair, and then turn around now and expect us to literally cut it now because its important enough to send us to hell forever"....not the best argument, but it shut them up usually....
Yeah, I have that Pentecostal background too unfortunately.
Anyways, it's what's WITHIN a man that defiles us, if our hair does this (or unwashed hands), then Christ bold faced lied....I guess take your pick everyone. I have.
Exactly. it's not about the physical. the Flesh Profits nothing.
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True, but we are told Jesus was a Jew. and that's good enough for me to suggest that most likely he had long hair. and does anyone doubt that He didn't wear pants?
It would be strange for Paul to admonish men to keep their hair short if Christ Jesus had his hair long shortly before in the flesh, especially if that was the style for the typical Jew (Paul was a Pharisee after all, with short hair).
http://archives.cnn.com/2002/TECH/science/12/25/face.jesus/index.html
Would some lose some love for Jesus if he didn't look pretty, but looked more like this:
(http://i.cnn.net/cnn/2002/TECH/science/12/25/face.jesus/story.jesushead.cnn.jpg)
It's worth considering. Before I understood the reconciliation of all things, this was a test for me. Now I don't care. He is beautiful regardless of what his flesh looked like. But some make an idol out of his image and fall in love with that idol (not that this is you, Sorin, but it makes me think...) ;)
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Well no I have no idol of the image of Jesus. I just don't see what's wrong with letting the hair grow since God created it naturally to grow. there is no commandment that says: Thou shalt cut thy hair.
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Again, that was in no way a personal accusation, it just made me think. :wink:
But didn't God also create sexual instincts in man? Why not let them run wild too? Also, it doesn't matter if there is a commandment in the Bible. We don't live according to that law anyway, but the New Commandment: love your brother. I too do not see anything intrinsically wrong with long hair. What comes out of our hearts is what defiles us.
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Jesus' face was that of any ordinary Jew. Look at any Jew you know and that could very easily be what Jesus looked like.
Look at the statues of Jesus' day and you will see most are clean shaven.
That picture is disgusting and shows what the pagan church is all about. They worship the Man and a false man at that. They need to conger up an image in their mind. Many have no clue Jesus is the God of the OT. They concentrate on the few years God walked among us as a man and think Jesus is sitting next to his Father as a flesh and blood human being.
Jesus is the Creator. He created Adam and He created us. He is the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow. He is not what the picture portrays, that is an effeminate, kissie, huggie, wimp.
Does anyone actually believe God controls and sustains the universe with a human brain?
If anyone gets that picture in their mind when they think about Jesus, they need to ask Jesus to blot it out, never to return. It is pagan through and through.
Sorry about the rant, a sore spot,
Dennis
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Again, that was in no way a personal accusation, it just made me think. Wink
But didn't God also create sexual instincts in man? Why not let them run wild too?
Jesus specifically talked about sexual imorality, but never did Jesus talk about hair.
so these two things are not even in the same league.
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Just occurred to me: Just as the church has everything 180 degrees backward, that picture must also be inspired by Satan. Jesus must have had short hair and no facial hair (I know, no way of knowing for sure).
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Amen Dennis,
Isaiah 53:2
He grew up before him like a tender shoot and like a root out of dry ground. He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him, nothing in his appearance that we should desire him.
Jesus specifically talked about sexual imorality, but never did Jesus talk about hair.
so these two things are not even in the same league.
I was basically following your reasoning that if God creates it then why bother hindering it. My point is basically that God creates thorns, then tells us to stay away. If we touch them we get hurt.
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Just occurred to me: Just as the church has everything 180 degrees backward, that picture must also be inspired by Satan. Jesus must have had short hair and no facial hair (I know, no way of knowing for sure).
Well Dennis,
you do make a valid point. as usaul. :lol:
But I still doubt God will think any less of me due to my physical appearence i.e. hair, clothes, etc...
i'm still not convinced what Paul said about the hair, wasn't just having to do with the culture there and then. notice he said shame, not sin.
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Just occurred to me: Just as the church has everything 180 degrees backward, that picture must also be inspired by Satan. Jesus must have had short hair and no facial hair (I know, no way of knowing for sure).
Well Dennis,
you do make a valid point. as usaul. :lol:
But I still doubt God will think any less of me due to my physical appearence i.e. hair, clothes, etc...
i'm still not convinced what Paul said about the hair, wasn't just having to do with the culture there and then.
I think the shame is a man looking like a woman, or intentionally looking like a woman.
Dennis
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Just occurred to me: Just as the church has everything 180 degrees backward, that picture must also be inspired by Satan. Jesus must have had short hair and no facial hair (I know, no way of knowing for sure).
Well, I did say were that picture did come from.
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Hi Joe I see what you are saying,should I if I have short and it offends someone should I grow it long and if me loving my enemies causes someone to be offended should I quit or say much of what we beleive is truth is causing most of the called to stumble or be offended should we quit telling the truth.In matt 15:11 -14 the called were offended or stumbled,as He is so are we in the world.Is Yashua a stone of stumbling?I try not to offend a brother.James 3:2For in many things we offend all.love davey
Hi Davey, reread my post, my conclusion is that we should not offend out of our own vanities or personal tastes, but at the same time not compromising Truth for popularity.
This "covering" has more to do with how we conduct ourselves in society than it does with absolutes in regard to fashion. Never did I imply that we were to be lukewarm or cavalier in His Truth.
Joe
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Hey I gotcha ya Joe.I just know that most stumble at the truth.peace and love to you Joe.
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Isn't it amazing that we can still get "bogged down" in looks as far as what is right or wrong? Again. from a novice to this site if I could share something with you all. When I was a little girl, my Daddy had a severe drinking problem. All his friends did too. I was the only little girl in the house so I will let you fill in the blanks as to what can happen to little girls when there are lots of drunken men around. Please don't make me write the words just suffice it to say there was a lot of physical pain. I couldn't tell anyone but somehow my Granny knew I was suffering badly, she just didn't know how. She told me that Jesus would always be with meand whenI was scared Just to try to think of Him. I told her I didn't know what He looked like to be able to think of him. I was only about 7 at this time. She and my Grandpa went and got me a pretty little Bible. There was a picture of Jesus in the front . That picture with all the children. She told me to read and "hide God's Word in my Heart" and I would be okay. I didn't know what she meant really so I hid that Bible over my heart , under my p.j. top and imagined Jesus with the children. It worked because when one of those men came creeping into my room and lifted my p.j. top they saw my little Bible and they left! They didn't hurt me! I know that wasn't what my Granny meant by what she told me but that is what I did. And whether that picture was accurate or not didn't matter to me , it mad me feel safe. I was sich a goofy kid wasn't I ?
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Jennie I am still a goofy kid, and I am 38 years old :shock: :oops: :mrgreen: \:D/
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Isa50:6-I gave my back to the smitters and my CHEEKS to them that PLUCKED off my HAIR I hid not my face from shame and spitting.