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=> General Discussions => Topic started by: Roy Coates on May 07, 2008, 02:03:33 PM
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I thought to claim oneself to be a Christian meant that you followed Christ Jesus. I read here and there on the forum that some do not consider themselves to be "Christian" Now I do believe that "Christianity" has become perverse and I assume this is the reason. However if there is additional information that will help enlighten please pass it on.
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This is from a personal standpoint:
If I am to "call" myself a christian, I'm subject to christian doctrines and those christians that wish to discuss Scripture with me will take that into consideration (that I believe in the major doctrines that they do, which i don't and niether do the Scriptures). If I were to call myself a Nazi, you would automatically assume I hate the jews. If I were a vegetarian, you'd naturally assume I don't eat meat. Christian doctrines don't agree with Scripture whatsoever, and so, I'm not a part of that "group", just like I'm not an athiest. If I could be so bold to say that those of us here with like minds that study the Word of God, are looking forward to being a part of God's new family, along with the rest of the human race. You don't need to "call" yourself anything for that; there's no requirement that you should be a part of a certain group, save God's chosen elect, which we all strive for unto the end.
-Beau
Just a side note, my spellchecker insists that I capitalize "christian".
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This is also a personal opinion on my part. I agree with Beau that to go by the label of Christian implies that one agrees with that religion's doctrines and beliefs. When people ask me, I tell them that I am a born again believer in Yeshua the Messiah and give praise to his Father Yahveh. People will then say to me that I am a Christian and I tell them no I am not and why. After all they invited me to speak the Gospel with their question.
Use any opening that the Spirit of the Father Yahveh gives you to speak the Good News Gospel.
Kitt
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I agree. Christians have many different beliefs. When boiled down you get to one common denominator, JESUS. I thought this was the base, the building block of everything.
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Jesus' word is Truth and his Father's word is Truth. They are one. They agree. His word is NOT, however, a building block for "many different beliefs".
-Beau
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Hi Roy
You have some very beautiful responses so far.
To add, I personally believe that our corner stone is Christ and the True and only foundation is also Christ. I can see why Christians make their Church the cornerstone and their belonging to a denomination, their salvation. It quite frankly is easier and less painful or sacrificial. This less painful way, produces the false sense of security which is the problem in false doctrines that put to sleep the persons who receive, hold on to and agree with them. Unavoidably this has resulted in the multiple schisms in the body of Christ that testify to the failure of Christianity to produce the real fruit of His Spirit. 3000 different denominations under the dome of Christianity are the schisms in the body of Christ and each laceration of His Body sets itself up above others to claim to be right and the others to be wrong.
I think that the manifestations of division and rulership is of Satan who is the head of all the false teachings, blasphemy and errors under which the Christan church rules and subdues with false teachings and errors. These false teachings sap the possibility of nurturing any spiritual strenght, integrity and obedience to the call of God to come out of her, by dousing the truth with lies and errors that place in bondage millions of professing Christians. These professing Christians have not even heard the call of God. It is not for them at this time to hear or obey or even understand God.
Ray has brought the blessed light upon the fact that Satan is the head in Christiandom and Satans throne is in Christiandom itself. That is why I can not say I am any part of any work of any Satanic Doctrine or belief system.
I know that a house divided against itself will fall and I also know that Satanic rule will fail. The sacrifice is on any who would come out of this house or hour of trial and be counted as the called out ones being strengthened to sacrifice in order to attain to the reward of obedience to Gods voice and non other. God's voice is " Come out of her My people." There are few who have heard, responded and are being dragged out.
Peace to you
Arcturus :)
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Thanks to all again for the response.
One thing you (Arcturus) said about being the "called out ones" and you probably already know this but, Cristendom believes the Christian Church is "the called out ones" being called out of the world. I thank God every day for blessing me with the eyes to see. I pray for those blinded, knowing that it is God's will they can not see the truth at this time.
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I agree. Christians have many different beliefs. When boiled down you get to one common denominator, JESUS. I thought this was the base, the building block of everything.
Not necessarily true. Remember anti Christ poses himself to be Christ.
- 2 Corinthians 11:14 - And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
It all started out with him wanting to be more righteous than God.
- Isaiah 14:14 - I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
You have to be careful that your christianity isn't just another religion (hinduism, budhism, pantheism, etc). It's just another form (2 Timothy 3:5) if it has not THE HOLY SPIRIT of Christ (God).
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Hey Bradigans,
Please check out the Lucifer hoax if you get a chance. It seems that in Isaiah, Lucifer may be referring to the king of Babylon rather than Satan. I was pretty surprised when I found this out.
http://bible-truths.com/lake9.html
-Steve
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Hi Roy
You have some very beautiful responses so far.
To add, I personally believe that our corner stone is Christ and the True and only foundation is also Christ. I can see why Christians make their Church the cornerstone and their belonging to a denomination, their salvation. It quite frankly is easier and less painful or sacrificial. This less painful way, produces the false sense of security which is the problem in false doctrines that put to sleep the persons who receive, hold on to and agree with them. Unavoidably this has resulted in the multiple schisms in the body of Christ that testify to the failure of Christianity to produce the real fruit of His Spirit. 3000 different denominations under the dome of Christianity are the schisms in the body of Christ and each laceration of His Body sets itself up above others to claim to be right and the others to be wrong.
I think that the manifestations of division and rulership is of Satan who is the head of all the false teachings, blasphemy and errors under which the Christan church rules and subdues with false teachings and errors. These false teachings sap the possibility of nurturing any spiritual strenght, integrity and obedience to the call of God to come out of her, by dousing the truth with lies and errors that place in bondage millions of professing Christians. These professing Christians have not even heard the call of God. It is not for them at this time to hear or obey or even understand God.
Ray has brought the blessed light upon the fact that Satan is the head in Christiandom and Satans throne is in Christiandom itself. That is why I can not say I am any part of any work of any Satanic Doctrine or belief system.
I know that a house divided against itself will fall and I also know that Satanic rule will fail. The sacrifice is on any who would come out of this house or hour of trial and be counted as the called out ones being strengthened to sacrifice in order to attain to the reward of obedience to Gods voice and non other. God's voice is " Come out of her My people." There are few who have heard, responded and are being dragged out.
Peace to you
Arcturus :)
Satans throne is in Christiandom itself
AMEN!!!
- Ephesians 6:12 - For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
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Hey Bradigans,
Please check out the Lucifer hoax if you get a chance. It seems that in Isaiah, Lucifer may be referring to the king of Babylon rather than Satan. I was pretty surprised when I found this out.
http://bible-truths.com/lake9.html
-Steve
Thanks, and i certainly will check it out.
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Hi Roy
Yes. To whom much is given much will be required and I whole heatedly agree that if we have been given eyes to see, then it is for us to imitate Christ in intercession for those who are at this time according to the Plan of God, blind and hardened in heart and mind, who knowing not God, are neither caring to know Him or hear Him.
That Lucifer teaching is a real eye opener Bradigans! :D
Peace to you
Arcturus :)
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I don't like to call myself a christian either b/c it's associated with religion and church. I tell people that I am a radical christian or a christian that doesn't agree with modern christianity. The only reason I use the word at all is to let people know that I believe in God and Jesus, but I do feel the need to expand on it and make it known that it doesn't mean that I sit in church every week or claim a religion and that I DON"T believe they will burn in hell for not sharing my beliefs. I have been wishing there was an easier way to tell people what I believe but I guess it's just not supposed to be so easy to label. It's funny though that the pagans and athiests understand the difference easily while christians can not grasp the fact that I'm not religious and don't attend church.
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I think I am a Christian because I believe in Christ Jesus, not because I believe in christian doctrine. But that is the only reason I would say I am a Christian. The Bible college I attend drives me crazy with their doctrine and contradictions. I ask pointed questions in the spirit of learning and am looked at as a detractor. The Spirit uses me sometimes to stump the professors. Same thing at my "local church" the teachings at the Bible study as well as the sermons are all mixed up. I was called out of the world and now I am being called out Christendom and feel great about it. It is a supreme privilege to be in the Spiritual postion that I am in. Praise God.
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Hi! Again Roy
Being a Christian is bad, brother, because it has been made bad by man. We are that part of the true Body of Christ that has obeyed the call to come out of her:-“Therefore, come out from their midst and be separate, says the Lord. And do not touch what is unclean; And I will welcome you. And I will be a father to you, And you shall be sons and daughters to Me,” Says the Lord Almighty." (2Cor.6:17,18).
This Body of Christ is united and not divided into a thousand different pieces like the pathetic Christianity that we have left, you included brother. Welcome. We obey God and worship Him in Spirit and not in buildings decorated with pagan gargoyles.
God bless you.
Love in Christ Jesus.
Roy.
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Actually, a better definition would be diciple. Those Jesus called to "follow" Him were diciples. Being a diciple means you follow Christ where God would lead you. Also, it's a lifestyle that GOD calls you to do (John 6:44).
Ches
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I see no problem with being called a Christian, or proclaiming to be a Christian, provided one abides to the doctrine of Jesus Christ and not the Babylonian doctrines of the Church.
It is Biblically correct to use the term Christian. Acts 11:26 And when he had found him, he brought him to Antioch. So it was that for a whole year they assembled with the church and taught a great many people. And the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch.
1 Peter 4:15 Yet if anyone suffers as a Christian, let him not be ashamed, but let him glorify God in this matter.
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I've seen the word Christian used a couple of times in the bible. Does anybody know if it is in the Scriptures though? Maybe which greek/hebrew word it is derived from or what the CLTNT and others say maybe? I'm sure my CEV is not reliable in matters like these...I'm not trying to discredit the use of the word. It's only to be sure(r) of it
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Hi Kweli,
The word in both of the verses that David gave (Acts 11:26; 1 Peter 4:15) are from Strong's #5546.
G5546
Χριστιανός
Christianos
khris-tee-an-os'
From G5547; a Christian, that is, follower of Christ: - Christian.
There is one more verse with that number.
Act 26:28 Then Agrippa said unto Paul, Almost thou persuadest me to be a Christian.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
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I certainly do not care to be a part of any division. Better known as "denomination" these days even nondenominational is a denomination. We know that main stream Christendom is full of men's doctrine, many evils and false teachings. I must add that God used this system that we are being called out of to draw me back to Christ. However, in my study I quickly stalled in my maturing process and started searching for more. I thank God every day for Christendom, He designed it and He used it to draw me to him. I am gaining, growing in Christ. I gained some valuable experience in Christendom, we all did. I believe that there is no waste in Gods economy
And yes dogcombat I find comfort in the term disciple too.
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these days even nondenominational is a denomination.
Very true. In my experience none denominational Churches use their none denominational status as an excuse to include a bit of everything, they have baptisms, pentacostal style babling and jesticulating etc, the sacraments and so on.
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Folks,
After the Nashville conference last year, I returned home to my little group of Church of God, Abrahamic fellowship and tried to share what I had learned from the conference and from many attending such as Gena and Rene.
I have said that it was difficult for me to just abandon them since they really needed some enlightenment.
After an additional year of leading Bible studies and trying to get them to examine themselves to see if they were pleasing God I have finally seen the futility of the exercise and have politely informed them that I would no longer fellowship with them.
No hard feelings on either side, but I'm sure that they are mystified and wondering why I have lost my senses.
Try as we may, we cannot convict or even help those who are not called. I knew that, in my mind and in my heart and yet these folks had been like blood relatives in their treatment of me and it is very hard to just give up and let go. I have and a great burden, that I placed upon myself, has been lifted. I thank God for that and I thank the forum members for their good advice and great patience with my struggle.
I think that I have learned a little in the process and that the effort was not wasted if I have gained better understanding.
Warm regards to one and all, IndianaBob
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Well said IndianaBob. I am in about the same spot. I started learning with Ray at the same time I enrolled in Bible college and joined a small local church. The truths I share, do for the most part get heard. However I think it(truth) falls on deaf ears.
I got fed at the local church for a while. It may have been milk, but that is what I needed at the time. I pray that it was spoiled milk. Now as I grow from the in depth studying I have been doing. I feed my family and any who will listen with the Spiritual Understanding that the Holy Spirit imparts to me.
I now serve those Christians at the local church, who took in this lost and starving soul. I plow the snow and mow the lawn, volunteer in the nursery, junior church, fund raisers and usher. They loved me and helped me the best way they knew how. It won't be too long until I am needed else where.
I guess what I am trying to say is; God used those Christians to help this son of God grow up. They can't help it that they are blind. I don't hold that against them. It is all a part of the Divine Plan of God the Father
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Well said IndianaBob. I am in about the same spot. I started learning with Ray at the same time I enrolled in Bible college and joined a small local church. The truths I share, do for the most part get heard. However I think it(truth) falls on deaf ears.
I got fed at the local church for a while. It may have been milk, but that is what I needed at the time. I pray that it was spoiled milk. Now as I grow from the in depth studying I have been doing. I feed my family and any who will listen with the Spiritual Understanding that the Holy Spirit imparts to me.
I now serve those Christians at the local church, who took in this lost and starving soul. I plow the snow and mow the lawn, volunteer in the nursery, junior church, fund raisers and usher. They loved me and helped me the best way they knew how. It won't be too long until I am needed else where.
Good to hear from you Roy,
As you may recall, I'm just down the road a ways near South Bend, IN. I have a cousin living in Kalamazoo and another in Brighton and we visit about once every three years. With the price of fuel today it isn't any easier.
Thank you for your kind comments, it is a struggle to know what to do, but that is the situation we are in by God's choice. It is a learning exercise and we each are being instructed individually by the son of the creator; what an honor that is.
I hope to hear more from you now that I recall that you are a next door neighbor.
Keep up the good work and continue to trust in Messiah for spiritual strength.
Warm regards, Bob
I guess what I am trying to say is; God used those Christians to help this son of God grow up. They can't help it that they are blind. I don't hold that against them. It is all a part of the Divine Plan of God the Father
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Thanks greatly for the effort Kat. It really helped.
I dont mean to drag this on, but based on the topic itself, is being a Christian bad? I mean if Peter and Paul recognized it as a way of identifying Christ's followers then maybe we should think more about it. I understand why we wouldnt want to be 'associated' with modern day christians, but the word and it's meaning (which fits more with us here) were not found in some dictionary or heretic's documentation, but in the Scriptures.
I'm not so sure about neglecting the use of the word if it is Scriptural. I understand that Jesus was physically circumcised so that I dont have to be under that law to stand approved but, Scriptural Christians are us, those who carry their cross and follow Jesus. It is great to have a word that recognizes this tough task of following Jesus, isnt it?
I really need to get to the meat of this one...
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Hi Kweli,
The name 'Christian' does come from the Scripture and of course it is a proper name for what it was intended. But now to anyone that hears it, the name symbolizes someone who believes in Jesus Christ, but it also strongly implies someone that belongs to the church system. To claim to be 'Christian' you are immediately, by most everyone, lumped in with the church.
When we have come out of the church we no longer want to be associated as being a part of that group, and so we have dropped using the name 'Christian.' I do not reject the notion that I am a Christian, I just don't use that name in referring to myself. Actually I don't have a certain name I use for myself now, it's whatever sounds right at the time :)
mercy, peace and love
Kat
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Okay. Thank you for the enlightenment Kat.
Still digesting though...bitter or sweet ;)
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Again I have no problem with being referred to as a Christian, it is a scriptural term to describe and identify disciples of Christ.
With the greatest love and respect intended, I really do think this discussion is an example of how the heresy denominations started in the first place.
I group of Christians with what they believe to be a correct understanding of scripture would decide to separate from another group with a different understanding, and thus decide that they should be called something different in order to differentiate themselves from other Christians. We know from numerous chapters in Acts, 1 Corinthians, Galations and Revelation that this was happening with the very earliest Christians. Paul admonished those that went this way, as did Christ in His Revelation to John.
I am not suggesting for one minute that people here do not have a correct spiritual understanding of scripture, far from it. Nor am I suggesting that we should not separate and come out of the Babylonian Church system.
I do think though that this type of discussion about whether we are comfortable with being referred to and identified as Christians is both unscriptural and divisive.
We were after all deceived Christians at some point, some of us still may be to a certain extent. We are always coming out of Babylon. Just because we now have the truth, or more of it than we had before doesn't mean we are no longer Christians.
Be blessed
David.
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Well said and thoughtful David,
Thank you for your comment.
As you note, it is a process that most of us "old folks" go through.
I was as much of a Christian as I knew to be, based on what God had given me 38 years ago.
I have since had a spiritual and mental metamorphosis and am getting closer to the butterfly stage,
but the process is not yet complete.
There are likely thousands of others who are just beginning that process and we need to love them all.
Regards, Bob
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Thanks greatly for the effort Kat. It really helped.
I dont mean to drag this on, but based on the topic itself, is being a Christian bad? I mean if Peter and Paul recognized it as a way of identifying Christ's followers then maybe we should think more about it. I understand why we wouldnt want to be 'associated' with modern day christians, but the word and it's meaning (which fits more with us here) were not found in some dictionary or heretic's documentation, but in the Scriptures.
I'm not so sure about neglecting the use of the word if it is Scriptural. I understand that Jesus was physically circumcised so that I dont have to be under that law to stand approved but, Scriptural Christians are us, those who carry their cross and follow Jesus. It is great to have a word that recognizes this tough task of following Jesus, isnt it?
I really need to get to the meat of this one...
Hi! Kweli
Let's face it brother we're not living in Paul and Peter's day but in an age 2000 years removed and a lot of corruption has crept into what was known as God's Church - Christian then. This corrupt resultant church has usurped the gracious title Christian and brought it into disrepute and as a consequence can you blame His chosen who have answered His call to "Come Out" from wanting to distance themselves from the corrupt by adopting a new name, such as, Body of Christ, which is still Christian 21st century called out style.
The is no question Christianity of today is now associated with corruption. There are a lot of well meaning good people among them, no doubt, but they need to come out or they are not being called. Ray addresses this in his Lake of Fire Series Chapter V111. When he asks where is God's Church. Toward the end you'll see that Paul had no delusion as to what the outcome was going to be for us right now.
Kath is right!
God bless
Love in Christ Jesus.
Roy.
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To add to what Roy has observed:
Jesus clearly said in John 9:4-5 before sending the blind man to the Pool of Siloam – “We must work the works of Him who sent Me, as long as it is day; night is coming, when no man can work. While I am in the world, I am the light of the world.”
Understandably, when Jesus left the world , night, or darkness, would return to it which is where we have been for 2,000 years with Satans throne ruling over Christiandom. To come out of Christianity, is to come out of the dark! :)
Peace to you
Arcturus :)
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Hi everyone!-I am in agreement with dogcombat,.When i had looked up the name Enoch i found it to have a twofold meaning #1-a disciple 2# a spear.
His name is actually'chanowk' i found that in the strong concordance dictionary.
I am not intrested in flying with those who call themselves ''christian'' and have their hand in my pocket at the same time or cheat the wages of their employees..
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Hello All:
I thought of this verse when reading through this thread (it was also including in "Gospel of the Kingdom" which I have been listening to all week).
Rom. 2 v28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
v29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
As well as
1 Cor. 2 v16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days
Rev. 2 v17 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.
Paul and Peter never stopped calling themselves Jews even though Israel was corrupt as a whole. They knew that the true Jews were ones who were one inwardly. I believe this applies to the title of Christian as well. I mean really, what is in a name? Shall not Jesus give us a NEW NAME when He returns? To want to be called by the title Christian or not by the title Christian is a matter of babes. We should not care what our outward appearance is including any "titles" that people want to bestow on us. So what if someone "assumes" you are a member of Babylon because you call yourself a Christian? You know the truth but even more importantly, "The Lord knoweth them that are his" [2 Tim 2:19]. To really be concerned with this "title" it would seem to be because one cares what "others" or members of Babylon think of them when these people's opinion means nothing. The only "title' one should seek is "the elect" and that is only bestowed on the few at His return.
Don't mean to sound too harsh but like David said, these "titles" can lead to division within us and they are of little importance.
Love,
Marques
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Something I really hate about most Christian's is how they will say about somebody "Yeah their alright, their a christian"
Like if you go to a mechanic that you haven't been to before, and the christian friend who recommended them will say that their a christian as if it's a guarantee of not getting ripped off!
Firstly, it's not any sort of guarantee at all and secondly, that's just some sort of superiority complex or something.
My brother in Law is a christian, and I wouldn't trust Him as far as I could throw Him. His bag is the prosperity (gospel) and I'm sure you're almost more likely to get ripped off by Him because He's busy trying to be "blessed"
Know what I mean?
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I agree Marques, it is a name. It is the heart that counts. Praise God He is circumcising mine.
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Yes-- Martinez i do know what you mean- i have had peaple say to me they are christian just to get me to let my guard down.
So to me a name is important,it says who we are in relation to the kingdom of our Lord.Jesus called Peter 'a little rock' for a reason.
In mathew 28-18 Jesus tells the disciples to make disciples in all nations-the name 'christian was given by man-i was not born a christian. I choose to be a disciple and walk with our Lord and Father each new day.Thanks for the wonderfull discussion!Love you guys!
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Well said IndianaBob. I am in about the same spot. I started learning with Ray at the same time I enrolled in Bible college and joined a small local church. The truths I share, do for the most part get heard. However I think it(truth) falls on deaf ears.
I got fed at the local church for a while. It may have been milk, but that is what I needed at the time. I pray that it was spoiled milk. Now as I grow from the in depth studying I have been doing. I feed my family and any who will listen with the Spiritual Understanding that the Holy Spirit imparts to me.
I now serve those Christians at the local church, who took in this lost and starving soul. I plow the snow and mow the lawn, volunteer in the nursery, junior church, fund raisers and usher. They loved me and helped me the best way they knew how. It won't be too long until I am needed else where.
I guess what I am trying to say is; God used those Christians to help this son of God grow up. They can't help it that they are blind. I don't hold that against them. It is all a part of the Divine Plan of God the Father
Amen!!! alleluia!!!
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Thanks greatly for the effort Kat. It really helped.
I dont mean to drag this on, but based on the topic itself, is being a Christian bad? I mean if Peter and Paul recognized it as a way of identifying Christ's followers then maybe we should think more about it. I understand why we wouldnt want to be 'associated' with modern day christians, but the word and it's meaning (which fits more with us here) were not found in some dictionary or heretic's documentation, but in the Scriptures.
I'm not so sure about neglecting the use of the word if it is Scriptural. I understand that Jesus was physically circumcised so that I dont have to be under that law to stand approved but, Scriptural Christians are us, those who carry their cross and follow Jesus. It is great to have a word that recognizes this tough task of following Jesus, isnt it?
I really need to get to the meat of this one...
Is the word christian found anywhere else beside in the book of Acts?
- Acts 11:26 - And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.
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I certainly do not care to be a part of any division. Better known as "denomination" these days even nondenominational is a denomination. We know that main stream Christendom is full of men's doctrine, many evils and false teachings. I must add that God used this system that we are being called out of to draw me back to Christ. However, in my study I quickly stalled in my maturing process and started searching for more. I thank God every day for Christendom, He designed it and He used it to draw me to him. I am gaining, growing in Christ. I gained some valuable experience in Christendom, we all did. I believe that there is no waste in Gods economy
And yes dogcombat I find comfort in the term disciple too.
Amen!!!
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Bible Explorer search results for: christian
Depending on the translation, but Christian is used many times. KJV I see nine times.
ASV Ac 26:28
Festus charges him with insanity, to which he answers quietly 28 And Agrippa said unto Paul, With but little persuasion thou wouldest fain make me a Christian.
ASV 1Co 5:7
The Christian church must be purged of the contamination of sinners, and separated from pagan influences The Christian church must be purged of the contamination of sinners, and separated from pagan influences
ASV 1Co 8:1
The mature Christian knows that idols have no power The mature Christian knows that idols have no power
ASV Col 2:1
He exhorts them to stand firm in the Christian faith He exhorts them to stand firm in the Christian faith
ASV Phm 1:8
whom he asks to forgive his servant Onesimus, and to receive him again in Christian love whom he asks to forgive his servant Onesimus, and to receive him again in Christian love
ASV Heb 13:1
The spirit of Christian love The spirit of Christian love
ASV Jas 2:1
The true Christian does not show partiality to the rich The true Christian does not show partiality to the rich
ASV 1Pe 4:16
Peter warns them of trials to come 16 but if a man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God in this name.
ASV 2Jn 1:1
John exhorts an honorable matron and her children to persevere in Christian love and belief John exhorts an honorable matron and her children to persevere in Christian love and belief
KJV Ac 26:28
Festus charges him with insanity, to which he answers quietly 28 Then Agrippa said unto Paul, Almost thou persuadest me to be a Christian.
KJV 1Co 5:7
The Christian church must be purged of the contamination of sinners, and separated from pagan influences The Christian church must be purged of the contamination of sinners, and separated from pagan influences
KJV 1Co 8:1
The mature Christian knows that idols have no power The mature Christian knows that idols have no power
KJV Col 2:1
He exhorts them to stand firm in the Christian faith He exhorts them to stand firm in the Christian faith
KJV Phm 1:8
whom he asks to forgive his servant Onesimus, and to receive him again in Christian love whom he asks to forgive his servant Onesimus, and to receive him again in Christian love
KJV Heb 13:1
The spirit of Christian love The spirit of Christian love
KJV Jas 2:1
The true Christian does not show partiality to the rich The true Christian does not show partiality to the rich
KJV 1Pe 4:16
Peter warns them of trials to come 16 Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf.
KJV 2Jn 1:1
John exhorts an honorable matron and her children to persevere in Christian love and belief John exhorts an honorable matron and her children to persevere in Christian love and belief
WEY Preface to the First Edition It is not the present Translator's ambition to supplant the Versions already in general use, to which their intrinsic merit or long familiarity or both have caused all Christian minds so lovingly to cling.
WEY Matthew Early Christian writers add little to our knowledge of him, but his life seems to have been quiet and somewhat ascetic.
WEY Ac 16:1
Chapter 16 1 He also came to Derbe and to Lystra. At Lystra he found a disciple, Timothy by name—the son of a Christian Jewess, though he had a Greek father.
WEY Ac 26:28
Chapter 26 28 Agrippa answered, "In brief, you are doing your best to persuade me to become a Christian."
WEY Ro 9:1
Chapter 9 - The Unbelief of the Jews 1 I am telling you the truth as a Christian man—it is no falsehood, for my conscience enlightened, as it is, by the Holy Spirit adds its testimony to mine—
WEY Ro 15:2
Chapter 15 2 Let each of us endeavour to please his fellow Christian, aiming at a blessing calculated to build him up.
WEY Ro 15:14
Personal Explanations 14 But as to you, brethren, I am convinced— yes, I Paul am convinced—that, even apart from my teaching, you are already full of goodness of heart, and enriched with complete Christian knowledge, and are also competent to instruct one another.
WEY Ro 16:2
Chapter 16 - Conclusion 2 that you may receive her as a fellow Christian in a manner worthy of God's people, and may assist her in any matter in which she may need help. For she has indeed been a kind friend to many, including myself.
WEY Ro 16:12
Chapter 16 - Conclusion 12 Greetings to those Christian workers, Tryphaena and Tryphosa; also to dear Persis, who has laboured strenuously in the Lord's work.
WEY Ro 16:22
Chapter 16 - Conclusion 22 I, Tertius, who write this letter, send you Christian greetings.
WEY 1Co 4:17
Chapter 4 17 For this reason I have sent Timothy to you. Spiritually he is my dearly-loved and faithful child. He will remind you of my habits as a Christian teacher—the manner in which I teach everywhere in every Church.
WEY 1Co 7:14
Chapter 7 - The Subject of Marriage 14 For, in such cases, the unbelieving husband has become—and is—holy through union with a Christian woman, and the unbelieving wife is holy through union with a Christian brother. Otherwise your children would be unholy, but in reality they have a place among God's people.
WEY 1Co 7:15
Chapter 7 - The Subject of Marriage 15 If, however, the unbeliever is determined to leave, let him or her do so. Under such circumstances the Christian man or woman is no slave; God has called us to live lives of peace.
WEY 1Co 7:22
Chapter 7 - The Subject of Marriage 22 For a Christian, if he was a slave when called, is the Lord's freed man, and in the same way a free man, if called, becomes the slave of Christ.
WEY 1Co 7:39
Chapter 7 - The Subject of Marriage 39 A woman is bound to her husband during the whole period that he lives; but if her husband dies, she is at liberty to marry whom she will, provided that he is a Christian.
WEY 1Co 9:2
Chapter 9 2 If to other men I am not an Apostle, yet at any rate I am one to you; for your very existence as a Christian Church is the seal of my Apostleship.
WEY 1Co 9:5
Chapter 9 5 Have we not a right to take with us on our journeys a Christian sister as our wife, as the rest of the Apostles do—and the Lord's brothers and Peter?
WEY 1Co 9:18
Chapter 9 18 What are my wages then? The very fact that the Good News which I preach will cost my hearers nothing, so that I cannot be charged with abuse of my privileges as a Christian preacher.
WEY 1Co 11:17
Matters Relating to Christian Worship Matters Relating to Christian Worship
WEY 1Co 16:19
Personal Matters, and Farewell 19 The Churches in the province of Asia send you greetings; and Aquila and Prisca, in hearty Christian love, do the same, together with the Church which meets at their house.
WEY 2Co 12:2
Chapter 12 2 I know a Christian man who fourteen years ago— whether in the body I do not know, or out of the body I do not know; God knows—was caught up (this man of whom I am speaking) even to the highest Heaven.
WEY Galatians But his earnest insistence upon the "fruit borne by the Spirit" proves that his ideal of practical holiness was rather strengthened than impaired by his plea for Faith as the mainspring of Christian life.
WEY Gal 1:22
Paul Vindicates His Apostolic Authority 22 But to the Christian Churches in Judaea I was personally unknown.
WEY Gal 3:1
Chapter 3 - The Jewish Law Far Inferior to the Christian Faith Chapter 3 The Jewish Law Far Inferior to the Christian Faith
WEY Gal 6:6
Chapter 6 6 But let those who receive instruction in Christian truth share with their instructors all temporal blessings.
WEY Eph 4:21
Chapter 4 21 if at least you have heard His voice and in Him have been taught—and this is true Christian teaching—
WEY Eph 6:1
Chapter 6 1 Children, be obedient to your parents as a Christian duty, for it is a duty.
WEY Eph 6:4
Chapter 6 4 And you, fathers, do not irritate your children, but bring them up tenderly with true Christian training and advice.
WEY Php 1:8
Chapter 1 8 For God is my witness how I yearn over all of you with tender Christian affection.
WEY Php 2:29
Chapter 2 29 Receive him therefore with heartfelt Christian joy, and hold in honour men like him;
WEY Php 4:21
Chapter 4 21 My Christian greetings to every one of God's people. The brethren who are with me send their greetings.
WEY Col 2:11
Chapter 2 11 In Him also you were circumcised with a circumcision not performed by hand, when you threw off your sinful nature in true Christian circumcision;
WEY Col 4:15
Chapter 4 15 Christian greetings to the brethren at Laodicea, especially to Nymphas, and to the Church that meets at their house.
WEY 1Th 4:6
Chapter 4 - Practical Exhortations 6 and that in this matter there be no encroaching on the rights of a brother Christian and no overreaching him. For the Lord is an avenger in all such cases, as we have already taught you and solemnly warned you.
WEY 1Th 5:12
Conclusion 12 Now we beg you, brethren, to show respect for those who labour among you and are your leaders in Christian work, and are your advisers;
WEY 1 Timothy There has never been any real doubt among Christian people as to the authorship of the three "pastoral" Letters.
WEY 1Ti 6:1
Chapter 6 1 Let all who are under the yoke of slavery hold their own masters to be deserving of honour, so that the name of God and the Christian teaching may not be spoken against.
WEY Tit 2:5
Chapter 2 5 industrious in their homes, kind, submissive to their husbands, so that the Christian teaching may not be exposed to reproach.
WEY Phm 1:16
Chapter 1 16 no longer as a slave, but as something better than a slave—a brother peculiarly dear to me, and even dearer to you, both as a servant and as a fellow Christian.
WEY Hebrews The unquestionably divine origin of the Jewish dispensation is made use of for laying emphasis upon the infinitely superior glory of the Christian order.
WEY James The Letter may have been a Jewish one, addressed to the Christian converts from Judaism who were scattered abroad, within or beyond the limits of the Roman Empire. ... ' But its practical ideal assumes the same basis of Christian faith as is found in the Letters of Paul.
WEY Jas 2:15
Chapter 2 15 Suppose a Christian brother or sister is poorly clad or lacks daily food,
WEY 1Pe 3:16
Chapter 3 16 Yet argue modestly and cautiously, keeping your consciences free from guilt, so that, when you are spoken against, those who slander your good Christian lives may be put to shame.
WEY 1Pe 4:16
Chapter 4 16 If, however, any one suffers because he is a Christian, let him not be ashamed, but let him glorify God for being permitted to bear that name.
WEY 2Jn 1:4
Chapter 1 4 It is an intense joy to me to have found some of your children living true Christian lives, in obedience to the command which we have received from the Father.
WEY Revelation Many scholars, however, regard the book as a document of Nero's time carefully incorporated in one written about 90 A.D.: "a Jewish Apocalypse in a Christian framework;" both perhaps being by the same author.
YLT Ac 26:28
Festus charges him with insanity, to which he answers quietly 28 And Agrippa said unto Paul, `In a little thou dost persuade me to become a Christian!'
YLT 1Co 5:7
The Christian church must be purged of the contamination of sinners, and separated from pagan influences The Christian church must be purged of the contamination of sinners, and separated from pagan influences
YLT 1Co 8:1
The mature Christian knows that idols have no power The mature Christian knows that idols have no power
YLT Col 2:1
He exhorts them to stand firm in the Christian faith He exhorts them to stand firm in the Christian faith
YLT Phm 1:8
whom he asks to forgive his servant Onesimus, and to receive him again in Christian love whom he asks to forgive his servant Onesimus, and to receive him again in Christian love
YLT Heb 13:1
The spirit of Christian love The spirit of Christian love
YLT Jas 2:1
The true Christian does not show partiality to the rich The true Christian does not show partiality to the rich
YLT 1Pe 4:16
Peter warns them of trials to come 16 and if as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; and let him glorify God in this respect;
YLT 2Jn 1:1
John exhorts an honorable matron and her children to persevere in Christian love and belief John exhorts an honorable matron and her children to persevere in Christian love and belief
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Knowing what we know through the revelations given through Ray Smiths teaching about who it is who heads up the Christian Church plus the fact that it is Antioch that is the mother church of Christianity; Antioch Christianity is the abomination of desolation, bringing 2,000 years/2,000 swine in the temple.
Ray draws out in his study Paul lamenting and crying daily for three years concerning what was to come about in the Church with the wolves entering.
For me the call is still to Come out of her My People. Shall God contend with humanity, or with me and my reluctance, ignorance disobedience, for ever? NO. Something has to change and it is not going to be God! 8)
I Thank God there is no such thing as forever but age abiding the time will come when God will return! The age will close when the cry from God to Come out of her, will be sealed and the LOF WTJ shall take effect. There is a day of judgment and in this is our salvation and hope and joy. Satanic rule will be terminated and the captives will be set free. THIS IS PROMISED BY GOD.
What we believe ultimately will manifest in who's report we have trusted. When this is revealed we shall either be in Christianity or out of it. We shall have either come out via the narrow gate or we will still be in compromise territory thinking we can still come out and that the door is still open or that the call to come out is still applicable. The day of judgment is a day that will comeOR is already here for those who are in judgment on the House of God now.
So to answer the title of this thread "Being a Christian is bad?" For me, where I am at this point I will answer categorically Yes it is because by implication it means consent to BELONG to the Church and belief that the Church will stand in for individuals to wave any judgment by God on them. This is a false teaching. Being a Christian denotes for me, in who's report I have believed. Sacrifice for the reward of obedience is still an option for me as my obedience is being refined through trials and tribulations. When Christ is here, for me, then there is no more sacrifice left to atone for rebellion, denial, disobedience, no further offering to which to look forward. That is good news because the Christian Church still teaches bondage to sins, subservience to itself, and penance for sins while concealing the fact that there is no more sacrifice for atonement Jesus has paid the final sacrifice! What remains is obedience or disobedience. God still is good and will have all to be saved but as through fire.
It is Satan who is the Adversary and who places himself in opposition to God. There is no truth in him. He is the father of lies. He heads up the Christian Church and for them it is real bad news. :) but that is the big secret, the vast revelation for as truly as Christ spoke so it will be....Depart from me....In this is our sorrow for them, our pity towards them and our work to bring the judgments of God to them so they can learn righteousness when Gods judgments are in the earth. Then our sacrifice while yet they are still sinners could begin in the image of Christ who laid down His life for His elect.
The harvest is great. The few are chosen.
Peace to you
Arcturus :)
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For me, where I am at this point I will answer categorically Yes it is because by implication it means consent to BELONG to the Church and belief that the Church will stand in for individuals to wave any judgment by God on them.
Hello All:
I just wanted to point this out, not to argue or be a stumblingblock for Arcturus, but this is her own personal belief. If you wish to consider yourself a Christian because of your TRUE belief in Christ, that is up to you. But it is not wrong either way. It is only a title that has no forbearance on salvation. Paul and Peter had to come out of the Jewish synagogues and false beliefs but never stopped calling themselves Jews. The "implication" that Arcturus mentions above is not by the Father or our Lord but by men when they hear the word Christian. And what does their opiniion count in the grand scheme of things?
John 4:9-10 Then saith the woman of Samaria unto him, How is it that thou, being a Jew, askest drink of me, which am a woman of Samaria? for the Jews have no dealings with the Samaritans. Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water.
I thought of this verse while writing my reply. Did Jesus get all hot and bothered by the "implications" the Samaritan had about him considering HE WAS A JEW. No, he only corrected her "implications" or basically told her THE TRUTH about worshipping in spirit & truth. If someone refers to you as a Christian because of your belief in Christ and they also think you believe in all the Babylon lies, so what?! YOU KNOW THE TRUTH!!!! The reason why I said this is a matter of babes is because this is like a 5 year old upset because someone called them a name or "title". And what does a parent tell a child in these situations? You know who you are so DON'T WORRY ABOUT WHAT PEOPLE THINK.
The title of being a "Christian" is neither good nor bad. Just like the title Jew is neither good nor bad. But what you are inwardly is of most importance as Paul tells us in Rom. 2:29. And also, do not let a "title" be a stumblingblock for you as it has NO FORBEARANCE on your salvation. Christ will give you a NEW NAME upon his return.
Marques
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Marques
Why have you have used my post to misrepresented what and Who I believe?
You say titles are neither good or bad. Have words got no meaning? If one is slandered as being a babe or immature in spiritual matters, then it means something even if the person is not immature or naive in spiritual matters the slander means something. The inference means something even if there is a disclaimer in the beginning which means nothing!
The Title Lord of Heaven and Earth has a meaning. The title Satan has a meaning. The title Christian comes out of Antioch where Christianity as we know it had its beginnings. The teachings of Paul out of Antioch is where Christianity had its beginnings.
If we look to Ray's teachings we see confirmed with meaning that non can come to God except through Christ. God's chosen Elect come out of Christianity as expounded by Ray through his teachings. The elect can not come out of any other doctrine or dogma or title or creed. The Elect have to come out of Christianity just as "the way" came out of Judaism and as Eve came out of Adam, similarly the elect will come out of Christianity. Who has believed our report. Who?
Of course it is most important what is in the heart but this is not a licence to hypocrisy if it is indeed Christ's Spirit that does not feign affection, pretend or ever disguise Who He is. Being called a Christian is an insult but if one wants to decline from confronting, edifying or correcting the person calling one such title, then all and well but let us not pretend that the title has no meaning or significance. It does have both meaning and significance that God calls us to come out of.
Peace to you
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I should like to add for the benefit of those who are starting to come out of the false teachings and who are beginning to see the blasphemies taught and practised in Christendom, that the way out of Babylon is by no means a quick fix. It is a most gradual and painful process that I believe can only reach completion in the time and discretion of Jesus Christ alone.
Non are free yet.
Peace to you
Arcturus :)
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You say titles are neither good or bad. Have words got no meaning?
I said "the title of being a "Christian is neither good nor bad. Just like the title Jew is neither good nor bad." I did not say all titles are neither good or bad.
The Elect have to come out of Christianity just as "the way" came out of Judaism and as Eve came out of Adam, similarly the elect will come out of Christianity
Paul (who could very well be of the Elect) came out of Babylon, which is all the worldly religions/governments including Judaism & Christianity. Did he ever stop calling himself a Jew?
Being called a Christian is an insult
To you maybe, but not to all. The title bears nothing to me.
Just look at our usernames next to our posts. "Member of the body of Christ" There are tons of Babylon denominations with that title. Would I get all hot and bothered if someone "assumed" (which is what this thread is really all about: one assuming the title of Christian means a member of Babylon) that I was a member of that Babylonian congregation? NO, because I know the truth and when you know the truth, you are set free.
Arcturus,
Honestly I respect your opinion and truly love to read your past posts because of their wonderful insight. I apologize if you believe I have misrepresented your comments but your comments speak for themselves. If you do not agree, let us just continue on in love (or even a PM if you would like). This is really an endless religious debate that is not edifying anyone at this point. Once again, I apologize if I have offended you.
Marques
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I see the PM lines as a privileged line of communication not a line of contention and debate. Likewise I shall withdraw from this thread. My comments stand. I shall not discuss my deeper insights into the matters you raise.
Peace to you
Arcturus.
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You say titles are neither good or bad. Have words got no meaning?
I said "the title of being a "Christian is neither good nor bad. Just like the title Jew is neither good nor bad." I did not say all titles are neither good or bad.
The Elect have to come out of Christianity just as "the way" came out of Judaism and as Eve came out of Adam, similarly the elect will come out of Christianity
Paul (who could very well be of the Elect) came out of Babylon, which is all the worldly religions/governments including Judaism & Christianity. Did he ever stop calling himself a Jew?
Being called a Christian is an insult
To you maybe, but not to all. The title bears nothing to me.
Just look at our usernames next to our posts. "Member of the body of Christ" There are tons of Babylon denominations with that title. Would I get all hot and bothered if someone "assumed" (which is what this thread is really all about: one assuming the title of Christian means a member of Babylon) that I was a member of that Babylonian congregation? NO, because I know the truth and when you know the truth, you are set free.
Arcturus,
Honestly I respect your opinion and truly love to read your past posts because of their wonderful insight. I apologize if you believe I have misrepresented your comments but your comments speak for themselves. If you do not agree, let us just continue on in love (or even a PM if you would like). This is really an endless religious debate that is not edifying anyone at this point. Once again, I apologize if I have offended you.
Marques
Hi! Marques
I regret to say brother that discussions on this issue will get you nowhere other than getting the PMs blocked.
My opinion, for what it is, is just my opinion and I will stick by it. I believe that in accordance with God's Master Plan from the very beginning, the Church that Jesus Christ founded has become corrupt in keeping with that plan. This is the platform from which He can now "call out" those of us whom He has preserved for Himself from the very beginning in accordance with that original Master Plan. Nothing is out of place everything is going perfectly as He intended.
The word Christian first appeared at Antioch and all belonging to that Church were called Christians. That title has come down through the centuries to us today. But now is the time, now is the acceptable hour for His chosen to come out of her. We are just a small part of those yet to answer His call and we are still Christian but there is another command in there which seems to be getting overlooked "AND BE SEPARATE". Now to me to be separate means just one thing and that is to completely alienate oneself from the original. We are God's Chosen/elect and cannot be confused with the corrupt.
"Be not unequally yoked with unbelievers: for what fellowship have righteousness and iniquity? or what communion hath light with darkness? And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what portion hath a believer with an unbeliever?" (1Cor.6:14,15)
God is all wise, He knows that a good fruit left in a barrel of rotten fruit won't make the rotten into good but the good will go rotten, so in His Wisdom He calls us out. Now that we are completely separate we of necessity need an identity. Still a Christian (believer in Christ) but now a New Christian ; a true better under a new name " The Body Of Christ". Just my humble opinion.
God bless
Love in Christ Jesus
Roy
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;D
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Greek Strong's Number: 5546
Greek Word: Χριστιανός
Transliteration: Christianos
Phonetic Pronunciation:khris-tee-an-os'
Root: from <G5547>
Cross Reference: TDNT - 9:493,1322
Part of Speech: n pr m
Vine's Words: Christian
Usage Notes:
English Words used in KJV:
Christian 3
[Total Count: 3]
from <G5547> (Christos); a Christian, i.e. follower of Christ :- Christian.
—Strong's Talking Greek & Hebrew Dictionary
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16 Yet <G1161> if <G1487> any man suffer as <G5613> a Christian <G5546>, let him <G153> <G0> not <G3361> be ashamed <G153>; but <G1161> let him glorify <G1392> God <G2316> on <G1722> this <G5129> behalf <G3313>.
1 Peter 4:16 (KJV)
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Hello everyone.
I dont feel good about this thread and it appears I may have dragged it on unnecessarily. For that I truly apologize. Because of a desire to live the truth and not just know it for sport or kicks, I thought using the name Christian is something to look into as one of the things we ought to do.
I believe David and Marques are right on the money. it's not in the name outwardly. Whatever we are, it is so inwardly. Matthew 6: 1-18 is about doing things inwardly for that is where the reward is, or more importantly where God (not man) sees. Yes we are not to be unequally yoked with nonbelievers. But it ought to be inwardly, otherwise we are to get out of this world, which, as Paul said, is not what is meant by not being unstained from this world.
Christian is a name, a word which indeed could cause division if we are to entertain or discredit it. However, the meaning of the word (follower of Christ) which is the real battle, ought to be what we are more concerned of, I think.
All Glory to Him
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Another heart felt post.
I believe all have spoke their heart on this matter, and I am truly greatfull for everyboby's time, energy and thoughts.
I am a Christian, I have left my boat and nets to follow Jesus. I do not follow the man made doctrines that run rampit through Christendom or any other religion. I dispel the lies when the Spirit moves me to dispel them. I share the Truth with any one who will listen and even sometimes to those who won't. I serve God and Jesus, God's children, the lost, widows, fatherless, and hungry. Regardless of their social standing/local church/race/creed or religion.
My continued prayers for all my brethren. May God's will be done in everybody life. May blessing be poured out on this ministry and all ministries as God see's fit.
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Hello everyone.
I dont feel good about this thread and it appears I may have dragged it on unnecessarily. For that I truly apologize. Because of a desire to live the truth and not just know it for sport or kicks, I thought using the name Christian is something to look into as one of the things we ought to do.
I believe David and Marques are right on the money. it's not in the name outwardly. Whatever we are, it is so inwardly. Matthew 6: 1-18 is about doing things inwardly for that is where the reward is, or more importantly where God (not man) sees. Yes we are not to be unequally yoked with nonbelievers. But it ought to be inwardly, otherwise we are to get out of this world, which, as Paul said, is not what is meant by not being unstained from this world.
Christian is a name, a word which indeed could cause division if we are to entertain or discredit it. However, the meaning of the word (follower of Christ) which is the real battle, ought to be what we are more concerned of, I think.
All Glory to Him
Hi! Kweli
There is no reason to feel bad about this. Being called a Jew is no different than being called an American, Englishman, German or French for that matter. Being called a Christian is totally different. On the 11th of May I posted this:
Hi! Marques
I regret to say brother that discussions on this issue will get you nowhere other than getting the PMs blocked.
My opinion, for what it is, is just my opinion and I will stick by it. I believe that in accordance with God's Master Plan from the very beginning, the Church that Jesus Christ founded has become corrupt in keeping with that plan. This is the platform from which He can now "call out" those of us whom He has preserved for Himself from the very beginning in accordance with that original Master Plan. Nothing is out of place everything is going perfectly as He intended.
The word Christian first appeared at Antioch and all belonging to that Church were called Christians. That title has come down through the centuries to us today. But now is the time, now is the acceptable hour for His chosen to come out of her. We are just a small part of those yet to answer His call and we are still Christian but there is another command in there which seems to be getting overlooked "AND BE SEPARATE". Now to me to be separate means just one thing and that is to completely alienate oneself from the original. We are God's Chosen/elect and cannot be confused with the corrupt.
"Be not unequally yoked with unbelievers: for what fellowship have righteousness and iniquity? or what communion hath light with darkness? And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what portion hath a believer with an unbeliever?" (1Cor.6:14,15)
God is all wise, He knows that a good fruit left in a barrel of rotten fruit won't make the rotten into good but the good will go rotten, so in His Wisdom He calls us out. Now that we are completely separate we of necessity need an identity. Still a Christian (believer in Christ) but now a New Christian ; a true better under a new name " The Body Of Christ". Just my humble opinion.
God bless
Love in Christ Jesus
Roy
And I stand by everything I've said, being SEPARATE means divesting yourself of all Christendom's idols of the heart, the name Christian, being one such idol.
"Therefore from now on we recognize no one according to the flesh; even though we have known Christ according to the flesh, yet now we know Him in this way no longer. Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come. Now all these things are from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation, namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation. Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were making an appeal through us; we beg you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God. He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him."
Taking the idol of our heart, the name Christian, out of Babylon with us is precisely what Israel did when they were called out of Egypt, they took the Egyptian idols of the heart out with them which caused them to stumble. We are now New Creatures in Christ ALL THINGS ARE NEW. This is why we have a new name "The Body of Christ" to distinguish us from the corruption we have come out of. Reference Ray's "Lake of Fire Chapter V111 'The Church In Pergamos.'" “Therefore, come out from their midst and be [b]separate, says the Lord. [u]And do not touch what is unclean;[/color] [/u]
God bless.
love in Christ Jesus.
Roy UK
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Hello All:
So let me see if I understand this thread from reading through all the comments:
(1) Some people who have responded to this thread believe the title Christian is of Babylon and if one assumes this title he/she has not "come out of her" and keeps this as an idol of the heart.
(2) While others who have responded believe that the title means a follower of Christ and refer to themselves as such because of its original, Scriptural meaning.
First things first, like David and myself stated again and again, this matters causes division as you can see. But let's really get to the "meat" of this issue: Will anyone be bold enough to state that if one refers to themselves as a Christian that that person WILL NOT be in the first resurrection?
Let me make a clear point: If ANYONE refers to themselves as a follower of Christ (whether they call themselves Christian, Spiritual Jew, Member of the Body of Christ, etc.) then a member of Babylon will ALWAYS assume that this person believes in the same Babylonian doctrines as them!
That is the reason why I stated again & again that a name or a title is insignificant.
The only idol of the heart that I have seen from these posts is the people who "care" what members of Babylon think of them. That is the only thing a title represents: what people see/think of you outwardly. A title has no bearing of what you are inwardly. Do you really think the Lord will or will not call you His Own because of some silly title? If one is a true (Christian, Spiritual Jew, Member of the Body of Christ) inwardly, then does the Lord really care which of these "titles" you call yourself? Are we really this blind and carnal to not see past this silly issue? This is truly a matter of babes! A 4 page thread on the title Christian!
I'm sorry, I tried to restrain myself from responding to this issue but I caved. But the reason is because of the silly division that this thread created. And if you don't see it, just read through its entirely again. Nonsense!
Marques
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That is the reason why I stated again & again that a name or a title is insignificant.
Oh really?
John 4:42
42.) And said unto the woman, Now we believe, not because of thy saying: for we have heard him ourselves, and know that this is indeed the Christ, the Saviour of the world.
It's the name or title that makes us who we are. We pray in the Name of Christ...Hollowed be Thy Name..."God" is the title that Jesus has been given. I will say that whatever name we give ourselves is not neccessarily the name that God has given us. In Hebrew, everything was named according to what it was. Men were named according to their surroundings, appearances, etc. Why would have God changed Abram's name if it didn't matter what he was called? What about Saul?
I really don't see "division", I see differences of opinion. People are learning more and more truth and are trying to figure out what they should be called. It's a learning process. We're trying to get what's on the inside to show on the outside. We're human, that's what we do. We just aren't quite sure what's on the inside sometimes. In my personal opinion, I define what a christian is by the actions of christiandom as a whole. I don't like what I see, so I choose not to be called that. That's all. You might think that names don't mean anything, but christiandom, will tell you what "being" a christian means to them, in retrospect, people "make" names mean something. We ALL make our names mean something. When someone you know hears your name, they get immediate pictures of you and a feeling that reminds them of you. In science, everything is named so we know what it is. God had Adam Name every creature. Was it in vain? Those are my comments.
-Beau
-
Hello All:
So let me see if I understand this thread from reading through all the comments:
(1) Some people who have responded to this thread believe the title Christian is of Babylon and if one assumes this title he/she has not "come out of her" and keeps this as an idol of the heart.
(2) While others who have responded believe that the title means a follower of Christ and refer to themselves as such because of its original, Scriptural meaning.
First things first, like David and myself stated again and again, this matters causes division as you can see. But let's really get to the "meat" of this issue: Will anyone be bold enough to state that if one refers to themselves as a Christian that that person WILL NOT be in the first resurrection?
Let me make a clear point: If ANYONE refers to themselves as a follower of Christ (whether they call themselves Christian, Spiritual Jew, Member of the Body of Christ, etc.) then a member of Babylon will ALWAYS assume that this person believes in the same Babylonian doctrines as them!
That is the reason why I stated again & again that a name or a title is insignificant.
The only idol of the heart that I have seen from these posts is the people who "care" what members of Babylon think of them. That is the only thing a title represents: what people see/think of you outwardly. A title has no bearing of what you are inwardly. Do you really think the Lord will or will not call you His Own because of some silly title? If one is a true (Christian, Spiritual Jew, Member of the Body of Christ) inwardly, then does the Lord really care which of these "titles" you call yourself? Are we really this blind and carnal to not see past this silly issue? This is truly a matter of babes! A 4 page thread on the title Christian!
I'm sorry, I tried to restrain myself from responding to this issue but I caved. But the reason is because of the silly division that this thread created. And if you don't see it, just read through its entirely again. Nonsense!
Marques
Hi! Marques
I am not in the business of making judgments, brother, and as such am not prepared to say whether or not those wanting to be called Christian will be in the first resurrection or not, I don't know if I'm going to be in it, only God knows and I leave that to Him. I believe in the Scriptures and I have quoted the Scriptures and that is what I believe the Scriptures are saying to me. What they are saying to you is none of my business, I'm only sharing what I believe, what you believe is entirely your choice.
There is no question of causing a division, I believe we've had enough of that over the past 2000 years. We are just discussing and airing opinions on this forum or that is what I believed it to be all about. We are supposed to be following Ray's teachings and his teaching is in accord with what I have been saying all along. So please don't infer that I am causing a division. I am deeply sorry if I have inadvertently trodden on someones toes but it was quite unintentional. " Lake of Fire Chapter V111 -- The Church in Pergamos." please read it.
In Antioch the followers of Christ were given the name Christian but over the past 2000 years those under the name Christian are still followers of Christ but that name has gotten itself a stigma attached to it which makes it unclean. It's to do with the name not the true follower. I can't do any better than that
Each one must do what they think is right in their own eyes and leave it at that, we can only try to help one another and not judge, that is God's prerogative.
God bless
Love in Christ Jesus.
Roy.
-
That is the reason why I stated again & again that a name or a title is insignificant.
Oh really?
John 4:42
42.) And said unto the woman, Now we believe, not because of thy saying: for we have heard him ourselves, and know that this is indeed the Christ, the Saviour of the world.
-Beau
I meant to say that the name that we identify with ourself as a believer is insignificant, not all names and titles. That is my mistake for assuming one would know what I truly meant. Let me repeat: I AM NOT talking about all names and titles being of little value ONLY the name one assigns himself because of their belief in Christ.
I just do not understand why anyone would be upset about how a member of Babylon perceives them. I know of Babylonian denominations called "Body of Christ". Do I shun that title because they have created a "stigma" to it? Oh, look...right next to EVERYONE'S name is that very same title! This is why I say that this kind of title is worthless. It seems that all agree it matters what one is inwardly but then some will go off on how they want to be perceived outwardly by a title. Does salt declare "I am Salt? Does light declare "I am Light"? No, they just show and do it. Are we not the "salt of the earth" and "light of the world"? The reason why I stated this creates division because of some people's (not all) comments on how it is evil or dispicable to be called a Christian. If you don't believe me, read this entire thread.
To me, this issue boils down to this:
Does our Lord and Saviour judge us by the name or title we choose for ourselves to identify our beliefs?
I stated no, because Paul states it is what you are inwardly that matters not outwardly. He was talking of a Jew in Romans...but does this not apply to the many titles of the followers of Christ?
Marques
-
Marques
Why have you have used my post to misrepresented what and Who I believe?
You say titles are neither good or bad. Have words got no meaning? If one is slandered as being a babe or immature in spiritual matters, then it means something even if the person is not immature or naive in spiritual matters the slander means something. The inference means something even if there is a disclaimer in the beginning which means nothing!
The Title Lord of Heaven and Earth has a meaning. The title Satan has a meaning. The title Christian comes out of Antioch where Christianity as we know it had its beginnings. The teachings of Paul out of Antioch is where Christianity had its beginnings.
If we look to Ray's teachings we see confirmed with meaning that non can come to God except through Christ. God's chosen Elect come out of Christianity as expounded by Ray through his teachings. The elect can not come out of any other doctrine or dogma or title or creed. The Elect have to come out of Christianity just as "the way" came out of Judaism and as Eve came out of Adam, similarly the elect will come out of Christianity. Who has believed our report. Who?
Of course it is most important what is in the heart but this is not a licence to hypocrisy if it is indeed Christ's Spirit that does not feign affection, pretend or ever disguise Who He is. Being called a Christian is an insult but if one wants to decline from confronting, edifying or correcting the person calling one such title, then all and well but let us not pretend that the title has no meaning or significance. It does have both meaning and significance that God calls us to come out of.
Peace to you
Hii! Arcturus
I agree we either keep to Ray's teaching's and the Scriptures or just don't bother. What I said in my post to Marques was in keeping with that teaching and the Scriptures. At Antioch the followers of Christ were named Christian but over the centuries that name has become stigmatized with corruption, deceit, extortion, murder, persecution, immorality etc.etc...I ask myself, does God really want His chosen to associate with such? "The Lake of Fie Chapter V111 ...The Church in Pergamos." makes this point abundantly clear and the Scriptures support it:
"Therefore from now on we recognize no one according to the flesh; even though we have known Christ according to the flesh, yet now we know Him in this way no longer. Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come. Now all these things are from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation, namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation. Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were making an appeal through us; we beg you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God." (2Cor.5:16-20).
In the face of this evidence I can't see how they can hold on to their view, but of course that's their choice. I personally think that the name Christian is an idol of the heart something out of Babylon that they don't want to discard, like the Israelites bringing out Egyptian idols when they were called out of Egypt.
I've been accused of causing division. Discussing one's view causes division, how ridiculous can one get I ask you?
God bless.
Love in Christ Jesus.
Roy.
-
Marques
Why have you have used my post to misrepresented what and Who I believe?
You say titles are neither good or bad. Have words got no meaning? If one is slandered as being a babe or immature in spiritual matters, then it means something even if the person is not immature or naive in spiritual matters the slander means something. The inference means something even if there is a disclaimer in the beginning which means nothing!
The Title Lord of Heaven and Earth has a meaning. The title Satan has a meaning. The title Christian comes out of Antioch where Christianity as we know it had its beginnings. The teachings of Paul out of Antioch is where Christianity had its beginnings.
If we look to Ray's teachings we see confirmed with meaning that non can come to God except through Christ. God's chosen Elect come out of Christianity as expounded by Ray through his teachings. The elect can not come out of any other doctrine or dogma or title or creed. The Elect have to come out of Christianity just as "the way" came out of Judaism and as Eve came out of Adam, similarly the elect will come out of Christianity. Who has believed our report. Who?
Of course it is most important what is in the heart but this is not a licence to hypocrisy if it is indeed Christ's Spirit that does not feign affection, pretend or ever disguise Who He is. Being called a Christian is an insult but if one wants to decline from confronting, edifying or correcting the person calling one such title, then all and well but let us not pretend that the title has no meaning or significance. It does have both meaning and significance that God calls us to come out of.
Peace to you
Hii! Arcturus
I agree we either keep to Ray's teaching's and the Scriptures or just don't bother. What I said in my post to Marques was in keeping with that teaching and the Scriptures. At Antioch the followers of Christ were named Christian but over the centuries that name has become stigmatized with corruption, deceit, extortion, murder, persecution, immorality etc.etc...I ask myself, does God really want His chosen to associate with such? "The Lake of Fie Chapter V111 ...The Church in Pergamos." makes this point abundantly clear and the Scriptures support it:
"Therefore from now on we recognize no one according to the flesh; even though we have known Christ according to the flesh, yet now we know Him in this way no longer. Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come. Now all these things are from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation, namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation. Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were making an appeal through us; we beg you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God." (2Cor.5:16-20).
In the face of this evidence I can't see how they can hold on to their view, but of course that's their choice. I personally think that the name Christian is an idol of the heart something out of Babylon that they don't want to discard, like the Israelites bringing out Egyptian idols when they were called out of Egypt.
I've been accused of causing division. Discussing one's view causes division, how ridiculous can one get I ask you?
God bless.
Love in Christ Jesus.
Roy.
Roy,
Did Paul ever stop calling himself a Jew even though the Jews were morally corrupt? No. Was this an idol of his heart? No. So, how is this issue any different than one calling them self a Christian?
No matter what you call yourself, a member of Babylon will always assume the 2 of you are of like mind. They are the ones deceived as we both know. Every name/title that means to follow Christ has a stigma to it. And we both agree that the members of Babylon are the ones that placed this stigma to these titles. But does our Lord judge us by this title or by how we live? I could call myself a Member of the Body of Christ but it would be in vain if I do not follow our Lord and Savior, Jesus.
That is the reason why I said it created division. Some believers think of the title Christian from its original scriptural meaning: follower of Christ. But then others (see the division?) say: that title is evil, don't associate yourself with it. With that line of thinking, you could not call yourself ANYTHING because members of Babylon has desecrated every title/name that is associated with following Christ. What you then have is people confused as to what to call themselves. My posts have been more for our "guests" who may be coming around to the Truth and I do not wish for ANYONE to be a stumblingblock for them. Hope this helps your understanding.
Marques
-
Revelation 2 : 17 He who is able to hear, let him listen to and heed what the Spirit says to the assemblies. To him who overcomes, I will give to eat of the manna that is hidden, and I will give him a white stone with A NEW NAME engraved on the stone, which no one knows or understands except HE WHO RECEIVES IT. 8)
I understand this in the following way. That NEW NAME will not be debatable, divisible or negotiable! Let this therefore settle all variable opinions. :D
Peace to you
Arcturus :)
-
1 Corinthians 9
19Though I am free and belong to no man, I make myself a slave to everyone, to win as many as possible. 20To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), so as to win those under the law. 21To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God's law but am under Christ's law), so as to win those not having the law. 22To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all men so that by all possible means I might save some. 23I do all this for the sake of the gospel, that I may share in its blessings.
1 Peter 3:16 keeping a clear conscience, so that those who speak maliciously against your good behavior in Christ may be ashamed of their slander.
Peace,
Joe
-
Hi Joe
Sound council thanks!
Kat....I see you are on this topic. Would you know where the teachings are that Ray illustrates the ballot being that white stone?
Peace to you
Arcturus :)
-
Hi Arcturus,
Would you know where the teachings are that Ray illustrates the ballot being that white stone?
http://bible-truths.com/lake8.html
mercy, peace and love
Kat
-
Let this decide where we stand then.
From http://bible-truths.com/lake8.html
This particular psepos pebble was used in casting a secret ballot. Now notice what a definition of ballot by the American Heritage College Dictionary: ballot n. 6. A small ball [or pebble] once used to register a secret vote. Next notice this amazing definition in Strong’s Greek Lexicon, #5586. psepos, "a pebble (as worn smooth by handling), i.e. (by impl. Of use as a counter or ballot) a verdict (of acquittal) or ticket (of admission)." A BALLOT, a VERDICT OF ACQUITTAL (not guilt) or ticket of ADMISSION (not rejection)! The opposite of this white ball or pebble of acceptance, is to be rejected and turned away by being "BLACK balled."
Maybe this doesn’t excite you, but this little "pebble" is just pregnant with Scriptural and spiritual Truths! Here is an example where the symbols of Revelation shine like giant beacons in the night. No, this is not just some ordinary "stone" promised to the overcomers in the Churches, but a "ballot pebble" of "acquittal and admission" which has "a new name written which no man knows (Rev. 2:17)," which is "My [Christ’s] new name" (Rev. 3:12), and "a name written which no man knew" (Rev. 19:12).
This is a pebble ballot, cast in secret ("The Lord knows them that are His," even if the world doesn’t), to pronounce an acquittal. Acquittal means a judgment of NOT GUILTY! If we are truly, SPIRITUALLY, BAPTIZED into Christ’s death, then we are "…JUSTIFIED from Sin" (Rom. 6:3-7).
And "Freely JUSTIFIED in His grace…" (Rom. 3:24). Justify means, "to declare free of blame; absolve. Theology To free (a human) of the guilt and penalty attached to grievous sin," The American Heritage College dictionary. That’s ACQUITTAL! Whom ever possesses this white pebble is ACQUITTED OF ALL SINS AND ALL GUILT!
This pebble also signified "admission." An "admission’ is both the permission to enter something, and the price paid for the admission or entrance. Again, Jesus Christ is BOTH! Jesus Christ paid the ultimate penalty for our sins,
"But God commended His love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, CHRIST DIED FOR US. Much more then, being now JUSTIFIED by His blood, we shall be SAVED from wrath through Him" (Rom. 5:8-9).
And we can only gain admission and entrance into the kingdom of God through Him. Jesus said, "I am the DOOR…" (John 10:7 & 9), and there is no other. Jesus said to, "Enter ye in at the strait [narrow and cramped] gate…" (Matt. 7:13), and Jesus is the "door" of that gate.
And so this apparently, insignificant little white pebble takes on enormous spiritual value. Our pebble is "white," signifying the purity of both the Giver (Jesus) and the recipient (the overcomer). It is like a spiritual ticket that proves the bearer has been washed clean, forgiven, justified, acquitted of all guilt, and has a paid admission into the Kingdom of God, which Jesus verifies and signifies by His Own written Name! But it is not a literal white pebble with a literal name engraved in it—IT IS A SYMBOL of all of the SPIRITUAL benefits attached to being an "overcomer IN Christ."
"A new name written, which no man knows except he that receives it." [That’s CHRIST, Who] "…had a name written, that no man knew, but He Himself … and His name is called The Word of God" (Rev. 19:12-13).
That’s CHRIST, Jesus is "The Word of God" (John 1:1). The world often treats God’s saints as if they were heretics. Only those who possess the Name of Jesus Christ truly "know" what the name is and all that it represents. Not all who speak of the Name, have the name "written" within them. Men’s lips are often far far from their heart.
I already covered how that "name" is representative of THE PERSON WHO BEARS IT. To believe in THE NAME of Jesus Christ is to believe ALL THAT JESUS IS! And the reason we have a "new" name is because all whom are "IN Christ" are "NEW creatures [new creations]: old things are passed away; behold, ALL THINGS ARE BECOME NEW" ( II Cor. 5:17). We not only have a new name, but we become and ARE A NEW NAME as well.
Peace to you Kat :)
-
Revelation 2 : 17 He who is able to hear, let him listen to and heed what the Spirit says to the assemblies. To him who overcomes, I will give to eat of the manna that is hidden, and I will give him a white stone with A NEW NAME engraved on the stone, which no one knows or understands except HE WHO RECEIVES IT. 8)
I understand this in the following way. That NEW NAME will not be debatable, divisible or negotiable! Let this therefore settle all variable opinions. :D
Peace to you
Arcturus :)
Thank you Arcturus...this was exactly what I stated in my 1st post:
Hello All:
I thought of this verse when reading through this thread (it was also including in "Gospel of the Kingdom" which I have been listening to all week).
Rom. 2 v28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
v29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
As well as
1 Cor. 2 v16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days
Rev. 2 v17 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.
Love,
Marques
-
That is the reason why I stated again & again that a name or a title is insignificant.
Oh really?
John 4:42
42.) And said unto the woman, Now we believe, not because of thy saying: for we have heard him ourselves, and know that this is indeed the Christ, the Saviour of the world.
It's the name or title that makes us who we are. We pray in the Name of Christ...Hollowed be Thy Name..."God" is the title that Jesus has been given. I will say that whatever name we give ourselves is not neccessarily the name that God has given us. In Hebrew, everything was named according to what it was. Men were named according to their surroundings, appearances, etc. Why would have God changed Abram's name if it didn't matter what he was called? What about Saul?
I really don't see "division", I see differences of opinion. People are learning more and more truth and are trying to figure out what they should be called. It's a learning process. We're trying to get what's on the inside to show on the outside. We're human, that's what we do. We just aren't quite sure what's on the inside sometimes. In my personal opinion, I define what a christian is by the actions of christiandom as a whole. I don't like what I see, so I choose not to be called that. That's all. You might think that names don't mean anything, but christiandom, will tell you what "being" a christian means to them, in retrospect, people "make" names mean something. We ALL make our names mean something. When someone you know hears your name, they get immediate pictures of you and a feeling that reminds them of you. In science, everything is named so we know what it is. God had Adam Name every creature. Was it in vain? Those are my comments.
-Beau
Well said Beau! Christendom has a stigma attached to it, a stigma that I hate and therefore choose not to be called by it, and the Word of God tells me plainly to distance myself from it as it is unclean. I simply prefer to obey the Scriptures, what others do is their affair. Each one will be answerable for their own choices whether right or wrong, good or bad.
God bless.
Love in Christ Jesus.
Roy.
-
Let this decide where we stand then.
From http://bible-truths.com/lake8.html
This particular psepos pebble was used in casting a secret ballot. Now notice what a definition of ballot by the American Heritage College Dictionary: ballot n. 6. A small ball [or pebble] once used to register a secret vote. Next notice this amazing definition in Strong’s Greek Lexicon, #5586. psepos, "a pebble (as worn smooth by handling), i.e. (by impl. Of use as a counter or ballot) a verdict (of acquittal) or ticket (of admission)." A BALLOT, a VERDICT OF ACQUITTAL (not guilt) or ticket of ADMISSION (not rejection)! The opposite of this white ball or pebble of acceptance, is to be rejected and turned away by being "BLACK balled."
Maybe this doesn’t excite you, but this little "pebble" is just pregnant with Scriptural and spiritual Truths! Here is an example where the symbols of Revelation shine like giant beacons in the night. No, this is not just some ordinary "stone" promised to the overcomers in the Churches, but a "ballot pebble" of "acquittal and admission" which has "a new name written which no man knows (Rev. 2:17)," which is "My [Christ’s] new name" (Rev. 3:12), and "a name written which no man knew" (Rev. 19:12).
This is a pebble ballot, cast in secret ("The Lord knows them that are His," even if the world doesn’t), to pronounce an acquittal. Acquittal means a judgment of NOT GUILTY! If we are truly, SPIRITUALLY, BAPTIZED into Christ’s death, then we are "…JUSTIFIED from Sin" (Rom. 6:3-7).
And "Freely JUSTIFIED in His grace…" (Rom. 3:24). Justify means, "to declare free of blame; absolve. Theology To free (a human) of the guilt and penalty attached to grievous sin," The American Heritage College dictionary. That’s ACQUITTAL! Whom ever possesses this white pebble is ACQUITTED OF ALL SINS AND ALL GUILT!
This pebble also signified "admission." An "admission’ is both the permission to enter something, and the price paid for the admission or entrance. Again, Jesus Christ is BOTH! Jesus Christ paid the ultimate penalty for our sins,
"But God commended His love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, CHRIST DIED FOR US. Much more then, being now JUSTIFIED by His blood, we shall be SAVED from wrath through Him" (Rom. 5:8-9).
And we can only gain admission and entrance into the kingdom of God through Him. Jesus said, "I am the DOOR…" (John 10:7 & 9), and there is no other. Jesus said to, "Enter ye in at the strait [narrow and cramped] gate…" (Matt. 7:13), and Jesus is the "door" of that gate.
And so this apparently, insignificant little white pebble takes on enormous spiritual value. Our pebble is "white," signifying the purity of both the Giver (Jesus) and the recipient (the overcomer). It is like a spiritual ticket that proves the bearer has been washed clean, forgiven, justified, acquitted of all guilt, and has a paid admission into the Kingdom of God, which Jesus verifies and signifies by His Own written Name! But it is not a literal white pebble with a literal name engraved in it—IT IS A SYMBOL of all of the SPIRITUAL benefits attached to being an "overcomer IN Christ."
"A new name written, which no man knows except he that receives it." [That’s CHRIST, Who] "…had a name written, that no man knew, but He Himself … and His name is called The Word of God" (Rev. 19:12-13).
That’s CHRIST, Jesus is "The Word of God" (John 1:1). The world often treats God’s saints as if they were heretics. Only those who possess the Name of Jesus Christ truly "know" what the name is and all that it represents. Not all who speak of the Name, have the name "written" within them. Men’s lips are often far far from their heart.
I already covered how that "name" is representative of THE PERSON WHO BEARS IT. To believe in THE NAME of Jesus Christ is to believe ALL THAT JESUS IS! And the reason we have a "new" name is because all whom are "IN Christ" are "NEW creatures [new creations]: old things are passed away; behold, ALL THINGS ARE BECOME NEW" ( II Cor. 5:17). We not only have a new name, but we become and ARE A NEW NAME as well.
Peace to you Kat :)
Hi! Arcturus.
How strange that you should mention Ray's writings in the Lake of Fire Chapter V111. I quoted the same to Marques only yesterday, and went to some lengths to try and explain that in my view to cling on to the name Christian amounts to an "idol of the heart" the same thing that the Israelites were guilty of when they were called out of bondage. They disobeyed and brought Egyptian idols of the heart out with them.
But I must add I didn't throw the whole book at him as you have done.
We seem to be on the same wavelength sister.
God bless.
Love in Christ Jesus.
Roy.
-
Marques
Why have you have used my post to misrepresented what and Who I believe?
You say titles are neither good or bad. Have words got no meaning? If one is slandered as being a babe or immature in spiritual matters, then it means something even if the person is not immature or naive in spiritual matters the slander means something. The inference means something even if there is a disclaimer in the beginning which means nothing!
The Title Lord of Heaven and Earth has a meaning. The title Satan has a meaning. The title Christian comes out of Antioch where Christianity as we know it had its beginnings. The teachings of Paul out of Antioch is where Christianity had its beginnings.
If we look to Ray's teachings we see confirmed with meaning that non can come to God except through Christ. God's chosen Elect come out of Christianity as expounded by Ray through his teachings. The elect can not come out of any other doctrine or dogma or title or creed. The Elect have to come out of Christianity just as "the way" came out of Judaism and as Eve came out of Adam, similarly the elect will come out of Christianity. Who has believed our report. Who?
Of course it is most important what is in the heart but this is not a licence to hypocrisy if it is indeed Christ's Spirit that does not feign affection, pretend or ever disguise Who He is. Being called a Christian is an insult but if one wants to decline from confronting, edifying or correcting the person calling one such title, then all and well but let us not pretend that the title has no meaning or significance. It does have both meaning and significance that God calls us to come out of.
Peace to you
Hii! Arcturus
I agree we either keep to Ray's teaching's and the Scriptures or just don't bother. What I said in my post to Marques was in keeping with that teaching and the Scriptures. At Antioch the followers of Christ were named Christian but over the centuries that name has become stigmatized with corruption, deceit, extortion, murder, persecution, immorality etc.etc...I ask myself, does God really want His chosen to associate with such? "The Lake of Fie Chapter V111 ...The Church in Pergamos." makes this point abundantly clear and the Scriptures support it:
"Therefore from now on we recognize no one according to the flesh; even though we have known Christ according to the flesh, yet now we know Him in this way no longer. Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come. Now all these things are from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation, namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation. Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were making an appeal through us; we beg you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God." (2Cor.5:16-20).
In the face of this evidence I can't see how they can hold on to their view, but of course that's their choice. I personally think that the name Christian is an idol of the heart something out of Babylon that they don't want to discard, like the Israelites bringing out Egyptian idols when they were called out of Egypt.
I've been accused of causing division. Discussing one's view causes division, how ridiculous can one get I ask you?
God bless.
Love in Christ Jesus.
Roy.
Roy,
Did Paul ever stop calling himself a Jew even though the Jews were morally corrupt? No. Was this an idol of his heart? No. So, how is this issue any different than one calling them self a Christian?
No matter what you call yourself, a member of Babylon will always assume the 2 of you are of like mind. They are the ones deceived as we both know. Every name/title that means to follow Christ has a stigma to it. And we both agree that the members of Babylon are the ones that placed this stigma to these titles. But does our Lord judge us by this title or by how we live? I could call myself a Member of the Body of Christ but it would be in vain if I do not follow our Lord and Savior, Jesus.
That is the reason why I said it created division. Some believers think of the title Christian from its original scriptural meaning: follower of Christ. But then others (see the division?) say: that title is evil, don't associate yourself with it. With that line of thinking, you could not call yourself ANYTHING because members of Babylon has desecrated every title/name that is associated with following Christ. What you then have is people confused as to what to call themselves. My posts have been more for our "guests" who may be coming around to the Truth and I do not wish for ANYONE to be a stumblingblock for them. Hope this helps your understanding.
Marques
Hi! Marques
To answer your questions:
1...."Did Paul ever stop calling himself a Jew?" Correct me if I'm wrong, but I've always understood Jew to be a national identity, descended from Judah. The same as being American, German, English or French. The name Christian is not a national name, it is the name of a particular group of people.
2... Now as far as Babylon always assuming that the two of us are of the same mind. Well, I couldn't care less what Babylon thinks I have come out from their midst, and I mean a complete come out of their midst and count all to do with them a complete loss.
3... Whether our Lord judges us by this title or by how we live, I haven't a clue, judgment is the Lord's jurisdiction and I don't infringe in that area.
4...If people calls themselves members of the Body of Christ and do not follow our Lord and Saviour Jesus, then I'd say they will have reneged and are no different to the party they have come out of.
5...When you meet believers who think of Christian from its original Scriptural meaning, then it's up to us to give them a reason for why we believe as we do: "...but sanctify in your hearts Christ as Lord: being ready always to give answer to every man that asketh you a reason concerning the hope that is in you, yet with meekness and fear:" (1Pet.3:15)
Brother we are separate, we are in Christ, we are a New Creation, we are a New Name, must we concern ourselves with what Babylon and the outside world think of us. Let them see our conduct through our love and behaviour and be their own judge.
In the final analysis, we must each follow what the indwelling Spirit of the Lord is saying to us and follow how and where He is leading us. I can only offer my help, in love, and give you my opinion on what I believe the Spirit is saying to me.
God bless you, my brother, I understand your position but this is what I believe and I cannot go against that, so forgive me.
Love in Christ Jesus.
Roy.
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Just last night I had an urge to go to a bible study meeting with a bunch of christian folks (mostly my family members). I hadnt been there in a while. They know my stance on christendom so obviously going there is never something I look forward to. To my surprise, and I have Jesus as my witness, they taught me something I will treasure for the rest of my life.
WE DO NOT SCRIPTURALLY LOVE ONE ANOTHER was what I was taught. We mistake the Spiritual Sword for something we can use against each other. The reason why we are so divided is we do not all have the same Spirit.
I couldnt believe I was hearing this from 'them'. But I knew it wasnt 'them' who were teaching me. It was HIM. HE was teaching me oneness. We are supposed to be one. Jesus and His Father are One all the way. There's no occasion where they arent one. If we are truely His, we ought to be one because we are being reconciled to The One.
My former church fellows are probably waiting for me to wake up one day and find myself in the pits on hell so they can say "I told you so". But I've learned from the Scriptures that not only am I supposed to not judge them, but I must love them. And what is Scriptural love? A lot of us here have the privilegde of fancy software that can even tell you how many times love shows up in the Scriptures and where it was used wrong/right? Search for it and mediate upon it. Is this thread filled with that kind of love? Are we capable of being one, whether we agree to disagree (because in the kingdom, THERE WILL BE ONENESS)? Do we still remember the most important Law? Is this how we want others to love us?
I'm not picking sides. God has already chosen which side I fall in. All I'm saying is I'm choosing the Word of God, which says even when we correct each other, it must be in love. Where is the love fellow believers???
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Hi! Arcturus.
How strange that you should mention Ray's writings in the Lake of Fire Chapter V111. I quoted the same to Marques only yesterday, and went to some lengths to try and explain that in my view to cling on to the name Christian amounts to an "idol of the heart" the same thing that the Israelites were guilty of when they were called out of bondage. They disobeyed and brought Egyptian idols of the heart out with them.
But I must add I didn't throw the whole book at him as you have done.
We seem to be on the same wavelength sister.
God bless.
Love in Christ Jesus.
Roy.
Roy,
No one is trying to cling to any name: Christian, Spiritual Jew, Member of the Body of Christ, or any of that. This topic of this thread was a simple yes or no question. You obviously have not read ALL of my posts on this topic for you to have that short-sighted opinion.
Here was the original question and see where this thread has gone:
I thought to claim oneself to be a Christian meant that you followed Christ Jesus. I read here and there on the forum that some do not consider themselves to be "Christian" Now I do believe that "Christianity" has become perverse and I assume this is the reason. However if there is additional information that will help enlighten please pass it on.
Roy Coates is asking is it wrong to consider yourself a Christian even though members of Christendom/Babylon call themselves the same. I stated no because:
Romans 2:28-29 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
(1) Paul never stops calling himself a Jew even though his is now a Spiritual Jew (one inwardly)
(2) Does this same principle apply to the name Christian? I believe it does. I have asked this same question numerous times on this thread and no one has tried to answer to why it is not so.
And what was so hypocritical of you, Roy Moris, is the fact you posted numerous times under the title "Member of the Body of Christ" even though that title has a "stigma" to it as well from all the Babylonian denominations named as such. Again let me state this for all:
If ANYONE refers to themselves as a follower of Christ (whether they call themselves Christian, Spiritual Jew, Member of the Body of Christ, etc.) then a member of Babylon will ALWAYS assume that this person believes in the same Babylonian doctrines as them!
Is the above statement false? No
What someone refers to themselves as in their walk with Christ is unimportant. What they DO (or really, what the Lord will have them do) in their walk with Christ is of the upmost importance. So the name Christian is neither good nor bad. Mods, if I'm lying, please correct me.
Marques
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but this is what I believe and I cannot go against that, so forgive me.
Roy.
I always forgive you but I am not asking you to go against the Word of God.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I've always understood Jew to be a national identity, descended from Judah
What does Paul say in Rom. 2:28-29? He says you are a Jew inwardly! How is that a "national" identity? Why are we letting the world dictact what a Jew or Christian mean? The scripture state the complete opposite for these names from what the world would have you believe!
I give up...
Marques
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5 pages of debate and strife. We've kicked this dead horse enough.
Agree to disagree or take the debate to pm.
Craig