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=> General Discussions => Topic started by: dave on September 01, 2014, 12:32:10 AM
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I know Ray spoke somewhat on and about Eph. 4:8-16 but can anyone shed a word or two on Eph 4:9 and that, he went up, what is it except that he also went down first to the lower parts of the earth?
Just wondering about the bold part..... the lower parts of the earth. Thanks
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From God Judges the World in a Pond...subtitle"O God, Thy sea is so great and my boat is so small." + - 14th paragraph from the top,
"The "sea" in Scripture is a symbol for mankind, humanity—the sinning human race. Scripture often speaks of (1) the sea, (2) the earth, and (3) the heaven—the sea being the lowest, and the heaven being the highest".
My understanding of this scripture is ...
Christ was made man (Earth) experienced Earth and overcame Earth - there are various states of being earthly minded, Jesus descended to the lowest carnal (earthly) state before he ascended to the highest state which is Above the Heavens - The same process happens to us who are being saved.
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I know Ray spoke somewhat on and about Eph. 4:8-16 but can anyone shed a word or two on Eph 4:9 and that, he went up, what is it except that he also went down first to the lower parts of the earth?
Just wondering about the bold part..... the lower parts of the earth. Thanks
This is a parable:
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,1057.0.html ------
Jesus NEVER said that He would be "buried" for three days and three nights. He said He would be "In the heart of the earth" for three days and three nights. He did not say that he would be "buried" for that time, or even "dead" for that time. Remember this is "the sign of JONAH." WAS JONAH D-E-A-D?
Jesus did not say He would be DEAD for three days and three nights. Jesus did NOT say that He would be BURIED in a tomb for three days and three nights. You can say that if you want to, but you know that it is unscriptural. Jesus did not say that as Jonah was in the belly of the fish for three days and three nights, so He would also be in the belly of a fish for three days and three nights. You still don't get It's a PARABLE (Matt. 13:34)?
Are the three days and three nights of Jonah being compared with the three days and three nights of Jesus? NO! No, that is not the point of comparison. You are totally, totally missing it. Here is the point of comparison:
Jonah: "AS... Jonas was three days and three nights IN THE WHALE'S BELLY,
Jesus: SO... shall the Son of man be three days and three nights IN THE HEART OF THE EARTH."
There is your "comparison."
There is your "sign."
There is you "parable."
AS "in the whale's belly," SO "in the heart of the earth."
But you still don't know what this "parables" means, do you? For you have not a clue as to what "in the heart of the earth means."
You know as well as I (or maybe you don't, but now you do) that you need a SECOND WITNESS to establish any spiritual truth. I gave you that second witness, but you didn't even get it because you are still thinking carnal and physical and literal, and that kind of thinking will never explain a parable, as parables are only "SPIRITUALLY discerned."
The second Scripture that is a Second Witness to "heart of the earth" is "Now that He ascended [which He did], what is it but that He also descended first into the LOWER [DEPTH, LOWER, UNDER, LOWEST LEVEL, etc.] parts of the earth?" (Eph. 4:9). There it is. There is the second witness. But you still don't know what this parable is. The "heart [depth] of the earth" IS the parable.
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Thanks, Nathan.
Ian, be very careful with that line of thinking. There are those so enamored with the 'doctrine' of Jesus having a 'carnal mind' or a 'sin nature' that they denigrate Him and the work He did FOR US. Ray had no tolerance for that, and neither will we.
"Yet without sin..." is a TRUE STATEMENT that can be applied to everything He did or said in the Gospels, Acts, and The Revelation. Besides, sometimes the 'earth' is just the earth. The definition of "spiritual" is NOT the definition of "symbolic".
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Thanks Nathan for the link I was looking for.
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Thanks, Nathan.
Ian, be very careful with that line of thinking. There are those so enamored with the 'doctrine' of Jesus having a 'carnal mind' or a 'sin nature' that they denigrate Him and the work He did FOR US. Ray had no tolerance for that, and neither will we.
"Yet without sin..." is a TRUE STATEMENT that can be applied to everything He did or said in the Gospels, Acts, and The Revelation. Besides, sometimes the 'earth' is just the earth. The definition of "spiritual" is NOT the definition of "symbolic".
Dave, with respect...you twist my words to suit your own understanding
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No I don't. I read your words "...there are various states of being earthly minded, Jesus descended to the lowest carnal (earthly) state..." and reply.
The 'doctrine' to which I am referring is 'out there'. My warning is sincere and applies to you (and every reader)--be very careful.
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No I don't. I read your words "...there are various states of being earthly minded, Jesus descended to the lowest carnal (earthly) state..." and reply.
The 'doctrine' to which I am referring is 'out there'. My warning is sincere and applies to you (and every reader)--be very careful.
I see your point ...it does come across as such - Rephrase, Descended to the core / heart of Humanity and dwelt among them, an experience of evil no doubt , NOT implying in anyway that Jesus partook
For out of the heart come evil thoughts--murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander.( these being the various states of carnakity) he did dwell /descend/live among these minded humans - no ?
Apologies I should work on the way I word things.
Ian
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Yes, He did. It's also worth remembering that 'out of the heart' come good things as well. Whatever is in there is what will come out.
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Yes, He did. It's also worth remembering that 'out of the heart' come good things as well. Whatever is in there is what will come out.
Amen. As one gets older the searching is quite humbling.
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Yes, He did. It's also worth remembering that 'out of the heart' come good things as well. Whatever is in there is what will come out.
Amen. As one gets older the searching is quite humbling.
Not sure on this one Dave, Jeremiah 17v9 suggests differently perhaps worth a discussion
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Yes, He did. It's also worth remembering that 'out of the heart' come good things as well. Whatever is in there is what will come out.
Amen. As one gets older the searching is quite humbling.
Not sure on this one Dave, Jeremiah 17v9 suggests differently perhaps worth a discussion
1Co 11:1 Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.
For Paul to be able to say that means plenty of good is coming out of his heart. And we can all get to that point. But it will only happen when it is all of God and none of us.
Joh 3:30 He must increase, but I must decrease. Must happen to you first.
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Yes, He did. It's also worth remembering that 'out of the heart' come good things as well. Whatever is in there is what will come out.
Amen. As one gets older the searching is quite humbling.
Not sure on this one Dave, Jeremiah 17v9 suggests differently perhaps worth a discussion
1Co 11:1 Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.
For Paul to be able to say that means plenty of good is coming out of his heart. And we can all get to that point. But it will only happen when it is all of God and none of us.
Joh 3:30 He must increase, but I must decrease. Must happen to you first.
So you believe your heart is able to be/do good?
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Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.
(Mat 5:8 )
A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things. But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment. For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.
(Mat 12:35-37)
For a good tree bringeth not forth corrupt fruit; neither doth a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. For every tree is known by his own fruit. For of thorns men do not gather figs, nor of a bramble bush gather they grapes. A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh.
(Luk 6:43-45)
But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience.
(Luk 8:15)
Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned: From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling; Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.
(1Ti 1:5-7)
If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.
(2Ti 2:21)
I thank my God, making mention of thee always in my prayers, Hearing of thy love and faith, which thou hast toward the Lord Jesus, and toward all saints; That the communication of thy faith may become effectual by the acknowledging of every good thing which is in you in Christ Jesus.
(Phm 1:4-6)
Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled. They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.
(Tit 1:15-16)
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Jer 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: (question) who can know it?
Jer 17:10 (answer) I the LORD search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings.
Jer 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and it is incurable; (question) who can know it?
Jer 17:10 (answer) I, Jehovah, search the heart, I try the reins, even to give to each man according to his ways, according to the fruit of his doings.
Jer 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and it is exceeding weak - (question) who can know it?
Jer 17:10 (answer) I the LORD search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, according to the fruit of his doings.
For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
(2Co 5:10)
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These scriptures certainly challenge any idea that man is able to change his motive,or that no man is good ,only God.
I have found that on a day I am able to walk with good intentions,almost as soon as this realization is noticed I "mess up"(fall)revert .
I believe/want to believe the scripture "if a man cleanses himselffrom the latter he is able to be used as a vessel unto good works.
its the preparation phase that I/we are in...
Personally and this may be my problem/(excuse)... I have concluded that God must change me build me and I remain wicked until that /those wicked things are changed by God.not implying that i go on sinning randomly but believing He, God will not allow it to continue.
In My present state there is an appearance of Jesus in my life not yet fully developed/formed.
Eze 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
This WILL GIVE has no time
I am ,rightly or wronly starting to understand that this requires work on our part, that is the "resisting" part, or doing the things which He said we should do...and my conclusion is that it is impossible -Who 's gonna rescue me ?
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Rom 7:24 A wretched man I am ! who shall deliver me out of the body of this death?
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These scriptures certainly challenge any idea that man is able to change his motive,or that no man is good ,only God.
I have found that on a day I am able to walk with good intentions,almost as soon as this realization is noticed I "mess up"(fall)revert .
I believe/want to believe the scripture "if a man cleanses himselffrom the latter he is able to be used as a vessel unto good works.
its the preparation phase that I/we are in...
Personally and this may be my problem/(excuse)... I have concluded that God must change me build me and I remain wicked until that /those wicked things are changed by God.not implying that i go on sinning randomly but believing He, God will not allow it to continue.
In My present state there is an appearance of Jesus in my life not yet fully developed/formed.
Eze 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
This WILL GIVE has no time
I am ,rightly or wronly starting to understand that this requires work on our part, that is the "resisting" part, or doing the things which He said we should do...and my conclusion is that it is impossible -Who 's gonna rescue me ?
But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience.
(Luk 8:15)
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Yes, He did. It's also worth remembering that 'out of the heart' come good things as well. Whatever is in there is what will come out.
Amen. As one gets older the searching is quite humbling.
Not sure on this one Dave, Jeremiah 17v9 suggests differently perhaps worth a discussion
1Co 11:1 Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.
For Paul to be able to say that means plenty of good is coming out of his heart. And we can all get to that point. But it will only happen when it is all of God and none of us.
Joh 3:30 He must increase, but I must decrease. Must happen to you first.
So you believe your heart is able to be/do good?
MY heart? Not for a second. But there is another heart.
Eze_11:19 And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh:
Eze_36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
And plenty of good came out of Paul, but he knew the source.
Gal_2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me:
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We dont have any good in our hearts
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Rom 7:18 For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh. For I have the desire to do what is right, but not the ability to carry it out. ::)
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We dont have any good in our hearts
Read above post. The DESIRE to do good is all about the heart. The WILL to do good is all about the heart. If Paul had that, then he had good in his heart. (The HEART is not the blood-pumping organ in our bodies).
What Paul lacked wasn't "having good in his heart".
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We dont have any good in our hearts
Read above post. The DESIRE to do good is all about the heart. The WILL to do good is all about the heart. If Paul had that, then he had good in his heart. (The HEART is not the blood-pumping organ in our bodies).
What Paul lacked wasn't "having good in his heart".
:) :)
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Read above post. The DESIRE to do good is all about the heart.
[/quote]
I Know there is no Good In us,our desire on the surface may SEEM to be good with good intentions but inside we are brute beasts ...only God is good
IT is GOD who fulfills our desire thru Christ, as Paul testifies-Rom 7v28 -we have need of intervention,my understanding of the need for a good doctor has come about by me wanting to desire God (which is also of God)I have been wrapped up in knowledge and self seeking all my life (pride)
sideline:
And to every one of the brothers and sisters which are few, malicious talk and gossip about what we see as false churches and religions should stop why ?because they know not what they do (which is also of God)Likewise we Know not what we do, by judging we condemn ourselves because we DO THE SAME THINGS
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Hello Ian,
If we are just brute beast, can you explain to me why there is a war going on within? Paul said when he goes to do good evil is present and that which he wants to do he ends up doing another thing.
But without the good in us there would be no struggle but because there is good in all of us we wrestle inwardly wanting to do the right thing but God made us in vanity so our choice is not always a good choice.
I want to do right all the time but sometimes I don’t , so does that make me pure evil? Is there no good in my heart at all even though I do many good things as well? ???
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Ian / Rick / All -
It looks to me that you are all in agreement albeit looking at this from different perspectives.
We all need God to change us and enable us to do Good; as Good only comes from God.
God judges each of us by the desires of our hearts - which include lusts and the desire to do Good.
Those that do Good from God's perspective must have been converted / enabled by God.
I personally believe that at all times, deep down, we all know whether our actions are selfish or selfless - or in other words - whether our heart's desire is to do Good or to do Evil.
George.
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Hello Ian,
If we are just brute beast, can you explain to me why there is a war going on within? Paul said when he goes to do good evil is present and that which he wants to do he ends up doing another thing.
But without the good in us there would be no struggle but because there is good in all of us we wrestle inwardly wanting to do the right thing but God made us in vanity so our choice is not always a good choice.
I want to do right all the time but sometimes I don’t , so does that make me pure evil? Is there no good in my heart at all even though I do many good things as well? ???
Hey Rick,
Million dollar question - goes back to the tree Good and Evil ,I have to believe the word, If Jesus said no one is good then no one is good,If he said our heart is wicked it is wicked,Even though we Think we are good the word says different
The battle IS NOT OURS.It is fought in the unseen realm.
One cant try to get a pure heart God will give us one.
Only once God has killed All Lust and All Pride in us are we fit for the kingdom not before there is no 80 % entry only pure hearts .Jhn 12 v 24.
If you break one law you are guilty of ALL When the disciples said This is impossible they meant it, and many fell away.
I can only comment on my Personal walking, it has major flaws,
Do Not Worry is our instruction.So I wont
If you must Boast boast in your 'weakness' there you have it once you /I understand that fully and trust that the grace shown you is enough, Christs power will rest on you and you will overcome.
Rom 11:32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon ALL,
Unbelief is BAD.(it falls in the category of spiritual fornication and murder) Yet most dont believe that the heart is WICKED... there must be some good is the response....
ps dont feel alone here Rick, I HATE SOME Of THE THINGS I DO (only after I've done them though)
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I don't believe the heart is 'wicked' because that is a poor translation. Not to say there isn't plenty wrong with it.
And it's the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
I don't take Jesus' reply to one not His disciple as containing some truth that contradicts the rest of Scripture. Never without a parable did He speak to them.
I also believe that 'good' and 'evil' are relative terms within themselves, not absolute. Why else is God's judgement related to WOOD, HAY, and STUBBLE when they are not of equally poor quality for 'house-building'? Neither are Gold, Silver and Precious Stones equally good.
God's Judgment on evil is to burn it away in the Fiery Judgement which is Himself. Smoke and ash are blown away by wind and washed with water.
God also judges GOOD! But He doesn't 'burn it away'. He refines it (improves it) in the Fiery Judgement which is Himself and makes it purer and better. LOVE is good, but it can be improved in all of us. All the aspects of the Fruit of the Spirit are GOOD (and reside in our hearts to the extent they do) but they can all be improved.
There is a teaching in Christianity (though not all adhere to it with equal zeal) called the Doctrine of the Total Depravity of Man. I don't believe that one either, though I used to. Even if you could produce a few people in whom NO GOOD AT ALL ever existed, their very existence would prove that GOOD DOES EXIST. And it will be made better (and is being made better) in Judgment. We ALL fall short of the Glory of GOD--we are all only beasts after all--but this is a temporary condition.
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Hello Ian.
I guess I stand corrected, the heart is deceitful above all things, I guess the good things I do in this life are totally done in selfishness, one way or the other all I do is for my own benefit.
Whatever we human beings do are done for selfish reasons only and for no other reason than personal gratification.
I buy food at the store, the man who owns the store could care less about me, he’s there only for profit, he makes money I get to eat and live another day.
A man helps and old feeble women cross the street, why does he help her? He does not know her, but he thinks if he does not help her she will get hit by a car, so he only helps her because he’ll feel bad if he does not help her and she gets killed by a car crossing the street by herself.
So he helped her for his own conscious sake because it would of bothered him, he don’t really care about the old women, only himself.
So with every selfish act we commit someone is always being helped out, not for their sake but for our sake. This is how God made us to be I guess.
I an, I stopped worrying around the time I discovered there is no hell....LOL.
whatever Gods intentions for me maybe there is absolutely nothing I can do about it. So why worry about anything in this life.
But you know something , even if I do worry I worry only because of selfish reasons, that’s right, can I pay my bills this month, will I eat today, will I loose my job an so on an so on.
I guess the truth is we humans beings are totally self centered creatures being made in the image of God and when that happens we will no longer be self centered but God centered and when we are God centered I guess then we will be prefect.
After all, we are either a slave to righteousness or to sin, but either way, we are all slaves. ;)
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well said dave, well said.
claudia
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i would say you are right Rick ,all that you mention is in fact FILTHY RAGS and is rooted in Lust and pride ,we do good to someone yet we have no idea who caused us to do the Good, until we understand - In him only do we live and move and have our being acts 17v28 we will continue to be deceived, one day we will get new hearts the heart of God then we will be 1 with him The last few chapters of Job really helped me with this, Job was "flawless" in Job chap 1 and then....
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I don't believe the heart is 'wicked'
You sound like my wife Dave ;D she was easily deceived
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And you sound like my old preacher. He was fond of the KJV.
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"And you sound like my old preacher. He was fond of the KJV".
Well, yes it is fairly good, but Youngs and Rotherham are too
From H6117 GK; in the original sense, a knoll (as swelling up); in the denominative sense (transitively) fraudulent or (intransitively) tracked: - crooked, deceitful, polluted.[/size]
Hebrew translated verses
Jer 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and it is exceeding weak - who can know it?
Jer 16:12 and ye have done worse than your fathers; for, behold, ye walk every one after the stubbornness of his evil heart, so that ye hearken not unto Me;
Gen 6:5 And the LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
Gen 8:21 And the LORD smelled the sweet savour; and the LORD said in His heart: 'I will not again curse the ground any more for man's sake; for the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth; neither will I again smite any more every thing living, as I have done.
Psa 53:1 (53:1) For the Leader; upon Mahalath. Maschil of David.
(53:2) The fool hath said in his heart: 'There is no God'; they have dealt corruptly, and have done abominable iniquity; there is none that doeth good.
Psa 53:2 (53:3) God looked forth from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any man of understanding, that did seek after God.
Psa 53:3 (53:4) Every one of them is unclean, they are together become impure; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
Psa 53:4 (53:5) 'Shall not the workers of iniquity know it, who eat up My people as they eat bread, and call not upon God?'
Ecc 9:3 This is an evil in all that is done under the sun, that there is one event unto all; yea also, the heart of the sons of men is full of evil, and madness is in their heart while they live, and after that they go to the dead.
Mat 15:19 For G1063 out G1537 of the G3588 heart G2588 proceed G1831 evil G4190 thoughts,G1261 murders,G5408 adulteries,G3430 fornications,G4202 thefts, G2829 false witness,G5577 blasphemies: G988
Mar 7:21 For G1063 from within,G2081 out of G1537 the G3588 heart G2588 of men,G444 proceed G1607 evil G2556 thoughts,G1261 adulteries,G3430 fornications,G4202 murders,G5408
Heb 3:12 Take heed,G991 brethren,G80 lest G3379 there be G2071 in G1722 any G5100 of you G5216 an evil G4190 heart G2588 of unbelief,G570 in departing G868 from G575 the living G2198 God.G2316
Jas 1:14 But G1161 every man G1538 is tempted,G3985 when he is drawn away G1828 of G5259 his own G2398 lust,G1939 and G2532 enticed.G118
Pro 28:26 He that trusteth in his own heart is a fool; but whoso walketh wisely, he shall escape.
MY CONCLUSION OUR HEARTS ARE WICKED WE NEED A SURGEON, NO MAN IS GOOD ONLY GOD, HAVE FAITH HE WILL GIVE YOU A NEW ONE ,HIS HEART, NOT YOUR OWN
I desperately want to call myself good, because I am ,in my own right I looked after my kids,watched them at sports, attended school meeting, trained young boxers, I suck in my wife's disparagement I feed the dogs I cook I drop of kids at school I,I,I but that does not make me what God wants that is what Man See's as Good ,God wants you and I to believe what he said thru his word is true and wants you to trust or have faith that it is true .
this may be a parable suiting the discussion
Luk 18:9 And he spake also unto certain who have been trusting in themselves that they were righteous, and have been despising the rest, this simile:
Luk 18:10 `Two men went up to the temple to pray, the one a Pharisee, and the other a tax-gatherer;
Luk 18:11 the Pharisee having stood by himself, thus prayed: God, I thank Thee that I am not as the rest of men, rapacious, unrighteous, adulterers, or even as this tax-gatherer;
Luk 18:12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all things--as many as I possess.
Luk 18:13 `And the tax-gatherer, having stood afar off, would not even the eyes lift up to the heaven, but was smiting on his breast, saying, God be propitious to me--the sinner!
Luk 18:14 I say to you, this one went down declared righteous, to his house, rather than that one: for every one who is exalting himself shall be humbled, and he who is humbling himself shall be exalted.'
Luk 18:18 And a certain ruler questioned him, saying, `Good teacher, what having done--shall I inherit life age-during?'
Luk 18:19 And Jesus said to him, `Why me dost thou call good? no one is good, except One--God;
So in my opinion, You Dave ,are an unbeliever and you Dave despise Gods word and with your clever human knowledge based theories are trying to corrupt my understanding of these many scriptures into thinking that there is good in me despite what the word says.
FESS UP as the "Yanks" say Tell me your heart is wicked and it cannot be mended it must be replaced or I will not discuss this further with you. kjv or any version
even as I write, my evil heart is swelling up telling me that I know these scriptures
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Ian, this started with your claim that the HEART was evil, after I reminded 'us' that GOOD also comes out of the heart. I provided scripture which said that out of the HEART both GOOD and EVIL come. Whatever is THERE comes out. I won't attempt to defend myself from anything else you have accused me of, because I have said NO SUCH THING.
Weak? Sick? TRUE. Wicked? Not as I understand the word 'wicked'.
Do you think your 'scripture' contradicts mine? I may not have supplied chapter and verse in what you call my "clever human understanding" but I certainly can, if you will admit they do not.
Just because 'out of the heart proceeds evil thoughts, etc' does not mean that out of the heart also proceed blessings, praise, repentance, thankfulness, love, joy, peace, etc. My 'argument' wasn't about good and evil of man, but about what the HEART is.
You accused me earlier of twisting your words to suit me. Does the pot call the kettle black?
You want me to confess my sins? You want me to admit that there is no good in me...that is IN MY FLESH? I have made a hundreds of posts related to that, and I've never said (nor even THOUGHT) what you are accusing me of. Not now, and never in my whole stupid life. You have absolutely NO IDEA how low I have sunk and from how deep in sin I have come to believe. I continue to have this war in my MEMBERS, but He is changing the INNER MAN. We are saved by Grace, through faith.
My only hope (and it's a hope scarcely a christian alive would extend to me) is CHRIST IN ME. And guess where His Spirit dwells? In my heart. You want to tell me there is still nothing good in my heart?
As I said, this has all been about what the heart IS, not how it might be described. You can call me whatever you like. I've been called worse by people who knew what they were talking about...in other words, people who judged me correctly.
I'll give you the opportunity for the last word, and I will not reply to it.
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Excerpt from Lake of Fire part 15-A (http://bible-truths.com/lake15.html):
IT ALL STARTS WITH THE HEART
ALL have sinned because it takes SPIRITUAL POWER not to sin. And God did not give our first parents that kind of spiritual power. They were spiritually weak as water.
We read in Jer. 17:9:
"The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?"
We know from Scripture that God "…creates EVIL…" (Isa. 45:7), but did He also create man’s heart in a "desperately wicked" state? No, He did not. God did not FORCE upon man, at creation, a "desperately WICKED" heart. Let’s read this verse from the Jewish Publication Society,
"The heart is deceitful above all things, And it is EXCEEDING WEAK—who can know it."
God did not create man’s heart "desperately wicked" as the KJV suggest, but rather He did create the human heart, "exceeding WEAK."
The seat of emotions and desires is the HEART. And God made the heart "exceeding WEAK." Man did not sin because he "freely willed" to sin, but because his heart was so exceedingly WEAK. That is why it takes next to nothing to persuade the heart of man to DESIRE SIN.
Jesus Christ Himself taught us that EVIL THOUGHTS, MURDERS, BLASPHEMIES, ADULTERIES, etc., all start, begin, originate, proceed, out from THE HEART.
Once the heart senses a feeling or emotion, it begins to desire something. These very thoughts of desire emanate out from the heart, seeking fulfillment. At this point in the process the will is manifested. It now becomes the driving force within you to accomplish the thoughts and emotions of the heart. The will is not the original instigator in this chain of events; it is not even the second in line, but rather the third.
* The will of man has no power until first his heart DESIRES,
* Second these desires are formed into actual THOUGHTS,
* Then at this third stage the will purposes to find fulfillment for all that is coming out of the heart.
The heart played a huge role in Adam’s decision to also partake of the forbidden fruit. In I Tim. 2:14 we read this:
"And Adam was NOT deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression."
Why did Adam sin if he was NOT deceived as his wife was? Again, the answer goes back to THE HEART.
Adam LOVED his wife dearly. He never wanted to be separated from her. But he knew that the wages of eating the forbidden tree was to be death. But did he fully comprehend all that death entailed? Probably not. But whatever the penalty would be or how it would be carried out, Adam knew that he did not want to be separated from his wife. Notice what He said to God:
"And the man said, The woman whom you gave to be WITH ME, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat." (Gen. 3:12).
Isn’t that interesting. Adam did not say: "The woman whom you gave TO ME." Or, "The woman whom you gave FOR ME." But rather, "The woman whom you gave to be WITH ME." Adam reminded God that He created Eve to be ‘WITH’ him, not apart from him. And if Adam had obeyed God, whereas his wife did not, he feared being SEPARATED from Eve. And so he also ate of the fruit and sinned, not because he was deceived as Eve was, but because he loved her in his heart so much that he couldn’t bear the thought of not being "WITH" her.
And so, did Adam "freely" WITHOUT A CAUSE choose to eat the forbidden fruit? What nonsense. Adam had the BIGGEST REASON in the world that CAUSED him to sin and remain with his wife!
So if you are looking for "free" will in the Garden at the time of our first parents' creation, forget it, 'cause it ain’t there!
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Let us look at what you said that I disagree with
Quote "out of the HEART both GOOD and EVIL come"
"Can both fresh water and salt water flow from the same spring"?
2nd witness "Can a spring, spring forth bracken and pure water ?
Quote "I don't believe the heart is 'wicked' because that is a poor translation. Not to say there isn't plenty wrong with it".
mmmm Contradiction ? would you agree?
Weak? Sick? TRUE. Wicked? Not as I understand the word 'wicked'.
Wicked derived from Wicker... I’m told (like a wicker basket)strips of wet bark are woven and twisted to shape the threads of wet bark into a basket or likened vessel. This process is called wicker.
So if one twists the scriptures as did the crooked twisted,serpent “Did GOD say that “ can we be classed as WICKED if our flesh logic doesn't fully understand?
Quote "I don't take Jesus' reply to one not His disciple as containing some truth that contradicts the rest of Scripture".
You should, All scripture including parables are God Breathed since Jesus is God I would. The word does not contradict.I am the way the truth and the life: I believe he speaks the truth
If you believe your heart of flesh is good/has some good-
There is sufficient proof that Our hearts need to be replaced by God we cannot replace or try and change our hearts. He God will give us a new heart, as was the process that happened to Jesus this process must happen to us and since we are in flesh form and are not dead, we still have all these ugly things in us.
In days gone by lepers were kept outside the camp (excluded) as this was a highly contagious disease , so are we, until the king dips us.
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He God will give us a new heart, as was the process that happened to Jesus this process must happen to us and since we are in flesh form and are not dead, we still have all these ugly things in us.
Ian,
Where in scripture does it say that Jesus was given a new heart? Why would Jesus need a new heart? Jesus is our Creator and while in the flesh He DID NOT SIN!
René
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It doesn't
God will give us a new heart
We must die to this world in order to live in the kingdom
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It doesn't
God will give us a new heart
We must die to this world in order to live in the kingdom
Ian, you tread some dangerous grounds. I have strong contentions against your saying that God created us with wicked hearts.
If God gave us an exceedingly wicked heart, would that not make God evil because He created us with an evil heart and then tells us not to do evil? Would that not make God responsible and accountable for our sins? Then you are saying God is the tempter, God is the one who forces us to sin. That every man is not accountable for his own choices to sin because he was made with an evil heart and therefor cannot be blamed for it. This is blasphemy. How can God judge us righteously if he makes us evil and then tells us not to do evil?
We know that this isn't the case. God makes no man sin and God tempts no man directly. Every man is accountable for his own choices and will be judged accordingly.
No, God created us with WEAK HEARTS, incapable of doing GOOD but not with EVIL hearts or "WICKED" hearts. Every good gift comes from above, including the ability to do good. God is raising up us to be His children and that process involves transforming us. Taking the weak heart, the marred vessel, and creating it again new. Giving us that heart of flesh. Its all a process, (remember: God is CREATING mankind in his image, its not a done deal, but a process) we are going to have bits of stone and bits of flesh. Parts of the clay that is marred and parts of it that is smooth. We are going to have wood hay and stubble, as well as gold silver and precious metals. All these things will be in us along the way to being transformed and conformed to the image of God. On our journey towards perfection. As dave said, it is not only the wood and hay which is tried by the fire, but the silver and gold as well.
Remember, every man's work shall be tried, the good and the bad ones, and they shall be revealed by fire. Notice paul says that it isn't just the wood, hay, and stubbble, that are to be tried here but the gold and silver as well.
1 Corinthians 3:12-16 (KJV) Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
So be very careful in saying that we were created with wicked and evil hearts. This is dangerous grounds to tread on because you make God a liar and his righteous judgement of no consequence, nothing but a show, a fraudulent act.
You might ask then how does a man commit evil if he was not created with an evil heart? Simple, there is no spiritual power in him to do good. It takes God's spiritual strength (Every good gift comes from above) to do the right thing. Man is spiritual weak and his heart is weak. He is all to ready to sin. Nevertheless, that does not mean that he was created with an evil heart. Weak and evil are two different things.
God bless,
Alex
P.S. I don't think wicked in the bible is the same as a woven basket, but rather more along the lines of evil.
Here is the first definition from the dictionary of WICKED: wick·ed wikid/Submit
adjective
evil or morally wrong.
"a wicked and unscrupulous politician"
synonyms: evil, sinful, immoral, wrong, morally wrong, wrongful, bad, iniquitous, corrupt, base, mean, vile; More
antonyms: virtuous
intended to or capable of harming someone or something.
"he should be punished for his wicked driving"
informal
extremely unpleasant.
"despite the sun, the wind outside was wicked"
synonyms: nasty, harsh, formidable, unpleasant, foul, bad, disagreeable, irksome, troublesome, displeasing, uncomfortable, annoying, irritating, hateful, detestable
"the wind was wicked"
notice the synonyms... SINFUL? God created us with SINFUL hearts then tells us not to SIN? To be like HIM?
Did Jesus say in the garden: "The flesh is SINFUL but the spirit is willing?" DId Jesus say "The flesh is WICKED/ EVIL but the spirit is willling?" No... what did he say? "The FLESH IS WEAK" The HEART OF MAN, IS WEAK.
Matthew 26:41 Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.
Mark 14:38 Watch ye and pray, lest ye enter into temptation. The spirit truly is ready, but the flesh is weak.
P.P.S Just because there are parts of us that are worth refining and purifing, the gold, silver, precious jewels, does not mean that we are GOOD compared to God. We may be good relative to other men, to evil men, but we are not good when placed before God. It in no way contradicts what God has said to believe that in us, in our hearts, by divine intervention of God, dwells good things that He is refining and purifying. By our weak nature, there will be many qualities that must be burned out painfully through trials and tribulations, but there are many good things we pick up along the way that God is shining and polishing into Godly perfection.
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"your saying that God created us with wicked hearts".??
Will deceitful, corrupt, adulterous, murderous, devising evil,lying,conspiring, do then?
If there was any good in it Alex ,it would not need to be replaced
Ps I was also deceived into believing im Ok Perhaps its just MY Heart of flesh then not yours,
Try not get angry with your brother/sister friend..Me.. for a week.. even our good is Wicked.(Twisted)
I gave you the root of the word wicked - weave ,twist,something so weak it could be twisted...
We call it "Spin" now ie "spin doctor"able to "pervert the truth"
People twist true Christianity into self-serving as did the (crooked) serpent ,it is anglo saxon (Wiker)
Sure it came after the bible was originally written I believe Deceitful may have been in its place.
Jer 17:9 Crooked is the heart above all things, And it is incurable--who doth know it? perhaps closer Youngs
Jer 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and it is exceeding weak - who can know it? Hebrew translation
Jer 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it? KJV
It is when we get shown our weakness as was Job we admit we are,(this comes by testing) I believe the transformation Starts.
All of this is MY UNDERSTANDING and since this is a platform for discussion, may I air what I have been shown ?
So yes check it out.Remember there was NO PERSON IN THE LAND MORE UPRIGHT THAN JOB - Coming Close was Nathaniel in whom nothing FALSE was found (a true Israelite)
So I will persuade you to ask the Father to show you your weak state that you may(boast in it-of it)
Then his power will make you strong,Spititually if one even thinks bad/evil/wicked he is guilty.
PS (the English words wicked, wick and weak all originated from the same word)Hebrew word that is translated as "wicked" is pronounced raw-shaw. It means to be wrong by making trouble, or twisting things with "wicked work" i.e.
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Dear Ian, I am not being angry with you.
The scriptures were not written in English so I'm not sure what your point chasing this, "wicked" is "twisted", one down... had it been written in english, and the word were trully wicked, and the origin of wicked were twisted, then perhaps you could say that wicked people are twisted but you must remember that since wicked stems from twisted, as you suggest, that would not mean that all twisted people are wicked. One supersedes the other. So therefor, even in this case, saying someone is wicked and then saying you only mean twisted, NOT evil or sinful or any of the other meanings attributed to the word, shows you are being deceitful and dishonest. I cannot allow that to stand. Had the word trully been twisted, then yes, we could not call them wicked, but because the word is wicked, you could say they are twisted but NOT ONLY twisted. Do you understand?
Now what do the scriptures say, aside from the words of our Lord? Well here is your word in that passage;
I am quoting a brother here with this next statement but I believe it is very valid to this discussion:
Would that it were that simple. RAW-SHAW always translated 'wicked'?
Here's the word used in Jeremiah 17:9
H605
אנשׁ
'ânash
Total KJV Occurrences: 11
incurable, 5
Job_34:6, Jer_15:18, Jer_30:12, Jer_30:15, Mic_1:9
desperate, 1
Isa_17:11
desperately, 1
Jer_17:9
friends, 1
Jer_38:22
sick, 1
2Sa_12:15
wicked, 1
Jer_17:9
woeful, 1
Jer_17:16
Not the same word!
Perhaps RAW-SHAW should be reasonable translated as "wicked" and have an English relationship to 'twisted', but NOT A-NASH!
Jer 17:9 The heartH3820 is deceitfulH6121 above allH4480 H3605 things, and desperately wicked:H605 whoH4310 can knowH3045 it?
'ânash
aw-nash'
A primitive root; to be frail, feeble, or (figuratively) melancholy: - desperate (-ly wicked), incurable, sick, woeful.
http://www.biblestudytools.com/lexicons/hebrew/nas/anash.html
Since there is a separate word entirely for wicked, I am inclined to believe that the Lord inspired Anash instead of RawShaw because He was making a subtle but important distinction between our hearts being wicked (sinful, evil, etc...) and being weak, sickly, frail (incapable of doing good on our own and in need of God).
God be with you,
Alex
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"your saying that God created us with wicked hearts".??
Will deceitful, corrupt, adulterous, murderous, devising evil,lying,conspiring, do then?
If there was any good in it Alex ,it would not need to be replaced
Ps I was also deceived into believing im Ok Perhaps its just MY Heart of flesh then not yours,
Try not get angry with your brother/sister friend..Me.. for a week.. even our good is Wicked.(Twisted)
I gave you the root of the word wicked - weave ,twist,something so weak it could be twisted...
We call it "Spin" now ie "spin doctor"able to "pervert the truth"
People twist true Christianity into self-serving as did the (crooked) serpent ,it is anglo saxon (Wiker)
Sure it came after the bible was originally written I believe Deceitful may have been in its place.
Jer 17:9 Crooked is the heart above all things, And it is incurable--who doth know it? perhaps closer Youngs
Jer 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and it is exceeding weak - who can know it? Hebrew translation
Jer 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it? KJV
It is when we get shown our weakness as was Job we admit we are,(this comes by testing) I believe the transformation Starts.
All of this is MY UNDERSTANDING and since this is a platform for discussion, may I air what I have been shown ?
So yes check it out.Remember there was NO PERSON IN THE LAND MORE UPRIGHT THAN JOB - Coming Close was Nathaniel in whom nothing FALSE was found (a true Israelite)
So I will persuade you to ask the Father to show you your weak state that you may(boast in it-of it)
Then his power will make you strong,Spititually if one even thinks bad/evil/wicked he is guilty.
PS (the English words wicked, wick and weak all originated from the same word)Hebrew word that is translated as "wicked" is pronounced raw-shaw. It means to be wrong by making trouble, or twisting things with "wicked work" i.e.
Btw I took the liberty of looking up Ra-Shaw itself in the old testatment using this site;
http://www.biblestudytools.com/lexicons/hebrew/nas/rasha-2.html
Strong's Number: 7563
Original Word Word Origin
[Xr from (07561)
Transliterated Word TDNT Entry
Rasha` TWOT - 2222b
Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech
raw-shaw' Adjective
Definition
wicked, criminal
guilty one, one guilty of crime (subst)
wicked (hostile to God)
wicked, guilty of sin (against God or man)
NAS Word Usage - Total: 264
evil 1, evil man 1, evil men 1, guilty 3, man 1, offender 1, ungodly 1, wicked 228, wicked man 21, wicked men 2, wicked one 1, wicked ones 3
Twisted isn't even actually in the definition for the word as it is used in the old testatment, at least not according to the NAS hebrew old testement lexicon.
God be with you,
Alex
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I believe everything we humans do are always for selfish reasons, somehow we benefit by gaining money, praise or some promotion.
Being self-centered does not make us wicked or evil by their definitions, if we were made wicked or evil, God’s creation would of went extinct long ago.
We were made in vanity, spiritually weak, we are not made evil or wicked and my proof is we have not all killed each other.
I rest my case. ;)
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last note from my side I having looked at the word pertaining to the human mind,have found this heart condition whether translated Evil,Wicked ,weak,deceitful.... find that this heart is extreeeemly deceitful, I know I walk free of most of the vile (can I say obvious) things I used to walk in ,however it is true, depending on circumstance I have on many occasions spontaneously reverted without even knowing it. No sir this heart of mine is by no means pure, Jesus did descend and walked among the lowest of these minded folks, he obercame and he will give us the power to do the same,Point here is the process's would take probably a lifetime or more for some of us,who is to know.If one transgresses in the smallest area one becomes guilty of all.
Its the Timid ( weak) that are 1st on the list that cannot enter....
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last note from my side I having looked at the word pertaining to the human mind,have found this heart condition whether translated Evil,Wicked ,weak,deceitful.... find that this heart is extreeeemly deceitful, I know I walk free of most of the vile (can I say obvious) things I used to walk in ,however it is true, depending on circumstance I have on many occasions spontaneously reverted without even knowing it. No sir this heart of mine is by no means pure, Jesus did descend and walked among the lowest of these minded folks, he obercame and he will give us the power to do the same,Point here is the process's would take probably a lifetime or more for some of us,who is to know.If one transgresses in the smallest area one becomes guilty of all.
Its the Timid ( weak) that are 1st on the list that cannot enter....
I agree with you, that the heart is deceitful but I find that this quality stems not from it having been created evil, but rather, from its inherent weakness. Our thoughts are all to quick to betray us. I have found that even if I were to lock myself in a dark closet for the rest of my days, I would still find a way to sin. My flesh and the spirit within are constantly at war and due to my weak heart, without the power of God, I volunteer to sin every time. I don't think my heart is wicked though but there are certainly things that are less than Godly which must be purged. I don't think humanity is created to be wicked either but that through the influences of Satan, the beast within, and a weak condition, many humans can't help but participate in acts of wickedness until they are completely consumed by them and no longer appear human but rather evil.
I will leave you with this last witness and all the forum as I find it extremely pertinent:
Romans 8:19-21 "For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God. For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope, Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God."
Strongs Concordance Greek, Vanity: http://biblehub.com/greek/3153.htm
Subject to futility: moral weakness ;)
The heart is exceedingly weak, who can know it?!
I think whether you wish to consider this twisted or moral weakness, we are in agreement that it takes the power of God to bring about the refining of gold and silver, the destruction of wood, hay and stubble, in us, and to this I can have no contentions.
Thank you for the discourse, brother.
God be with you,
Alex
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Well said Friend. :)
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[/quote]
I agree with you, that the heart is deceitful but I find that this quality stems not from it having been created evil, but rather, from its inherent weakness.
[/quote]
Good discussion,
Questions i asked myself and the forum after rereading every word in this thread..
Is The heart 1st deceitful,and is it weak? or is it 1st weak? and due to this state, has it the ability to be deceived,and to deceive?
Was Eve deceived by what her heart saw? did what she saw appeal to her lusts,were those lusts already in place inside her heart,or did they suddenly arrive. If so who placed them there?
Did the crooked serpent sow a twisted/perverted version of what GOD said.
Was the ability to disbelieve what God said would happen and receive what the serpent said would happen due to a weak mind.(subject to vanity).Who caused this acceptance
If she possessed the spirit of God she would have discerned that the serpent was wrong.
Inside this weak mind/heart do all sorts of wickedness and evil exist.
is the carnal,weak,lusting mind, the devil?
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I agree with you, that the heart is deceitful but I find that this quality stems not from it having been created evil, but rather, from its inherent weakness.
is the carnal,weak,lusting mind, the devil?
No it is not, Ray spoke about this in an email. Jesus wasn't talking to his carnal weak lusting mind when He told satan, though shall not tempt the Lord thy God.
Jesus didn't have a carnal mind. The carnal mind is not satan.
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Satan is the embodiment of evil.
Man is constantly forced to make choices between good (GOD), and evil (Satan, World, flesh, devil).
Joel
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Well maybe not...
Is Satan, who is the god of this world (cosmos) in any way embodied?
Or is it better understood that Satan is a spiritual force that tempts men indirectly? None of us have been carried up to a high mountain and offered great rewards to obey Satan. We are tempted by our own lust of the eyes, lust of our flesh and our own prideful attitude.
Related to EMBODIMENT
Synonyms
abstract, avatar, embodier, epitome, externalization, icon (also ikon), image, incarnation, incorporation, manifestation, objectification, personification, personifier
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Satan is the embodiment of evil.
Man is constantly forced to make choices between good (GOD), and evil (Satan, World, flesh, devil).
Joel
Well maybe not...
Is Satan, who is the god of this world (cosmos) in any way embodied?
Or is it better understood that Satan is a spiritual force that tempts men indirectly? None of us have been carried up to a high mountain and offered great rewards to obey Satan. We are tempted by our own lust of the eyes, lust of our flesh and our own prideful attitude.
Related to EMBODIMENT
Synonyms
abstract, avatar, embodier, epitome, externalization, icon (also ikon), image, incarnation, incorporation, manifestation, objectification, personification, personifier
worth a discussion
Gen 3:4 And the serpent saith unto the woman, `Dying, ye do not die,
Gen 3:5 for God doth know that in the day of your eating of it--your eyes have been opened, and ye have been as God, knowing good and evil.'
Tempted by OUR OWN lusts and desires ?? Perhaps they "hang" out in the unseen realm and we take ownership ?? who placed them in us or out there?
Joel are u saying/implying God places us/forces us into a predicament ?and God(good) is in us as well as the devil ?Flesh,world - perhaps a glimmer of truth is this ?
in certain verses we are referred to as "Trees" some similes being Oaks and some Fig ?
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Knowing good and evil, and being able to do good, and not evil is impossible without God (Holy Spirit).
Yes speaking for myself, I am constantly faced on a daily bases with temptations, and fiery trials, as many others are too.
If we don't have the mind of Christ for doing good, we give in to some of the works of the flesh. (listed in Galatians 5:19-21)
Christ working in us, helps us to produce the fruits of the Spirit. (Galatians 5:22-26)
The tree reference is a good example of fruit production.
James 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
Sins of the tongue (James 3) is deeper still.
Genesis 3:1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made.
Ray did a great job explaining Lucifer, and the serpent, and the truth about all that in my opinion.
Joel
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reading through this thread made my head explode. :o round and round the conversation goes, and where it will stop only the mods know. the thread has fallen into the debate vortex.
cjwood
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Hi cjwood,
agree with your assessment.
We were just waiting for you to condense it down to its lowest common denominator for clarification. ;D
You could perhaps find a hidden quote from Ray that 'esplains' it all...
Kindly offered, ole Indiana Bob
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Private void LockedThread_Load(object sender, EventArgs e)
{
int post = 0;
if (post <= 60)
{
MessageBox.Show("Thank you, we value your opinion");
post++;
}
else
{
MessageBox.Show("This thread has been locked!");
}
}
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Private void LockedThread_Load(object sender, EventArgs e)
{
int post = 0;
if (post <= 60)
{
MessageBox.Show("Thank you, we value your opinion");
post++;
}
else
{
MessageBox.Show("This thread has been locked!");
}
}
// corrected code
int post = 0;
private void LockedThread_Load(object sender, EventArgs e)
{
if (post++ <= 60)
{
MessageBox.Show("Thank you, we value your opinion");
}
else
{
MessageBox.Show("This thread has been locked!");
}
}
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Is this private mod code or speaking in tongues :P
Rhys
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// corrected code
int post = 0;
private void LockedThread_Load(object sender, EventArgs e)
{
if (post++ <= 60)
{
MessageBox.Show("Thank you, we value your opinion");
}
else
{
MessageBox.Show("This thread has been locked!");
}
}
I asked Dennis on what was going on here and he said it has no meaning. He was replying to what he thought was meant to be a joke.
However, we decided to officially go ahead a lock this thread too.
René