=> General Discussions => Topic started by: Deborah-Leigh on December 23, 2006, 01:51:57 PM

Title: Take up
Post by: Deborah-Leigh on December 23, 2006, 01:51:57 PM
In todays e-mail responces given by Ray Quote....

Hell does exist.

Hell does exist because God showed it to me in an open vision in 1998. God brought hell up before my eyes and it was in the middle of the earth laid out like a human body. It was full of great flames of fire, not an inch was spared. I saw my dad come up out of the flames up to his waist. His arms were bent at the elbows and his fists were clinched very, very tight. He had a look of sorrow, and great fear in his eyes. He was wailing and howling with regret as he stared at me. I could not help him and the shocked look that came over his face I shall never forget. My dad in 1998 had been dead for 4 years at the time I saw him in hell. He fell back into the flames back to his eternal place in a devil's hell. Jesus tried many times to speak to my dad but my dad refused to listen and now he is tormented by the sins he refused to give up and he will never get out of the place Jesus talked about more than He talked about Heaven, and that is HELL!!!

    Dear Reader:
    It doesn't seem to bother you too much that your father is in pain and suffering every second for all eternity?  Did you hate your father?  Why do you reckon God hates him so?  Are you okay with the fact that you think your father will suffer in real fire for all eternity?  Do you think this is a good thing that God came up with.  If it is good, what "GOOD" does it ever accomplish? You don't think much about these things with a rational mind, do you?   I would never worship a god who would torture my father in real fire for all eternity. I believe that you are a very mentally and spiritually sick person. I could be wrong, but I'll bet that everyone up to their waist in fire would have a "look of sorrow" on their face.
    Don't you ever write me an email again until you REPENT before your heavenly Father, for so utterly dishonoring and disrespecting your earthly father!!  Why DIDN'T you help your father? Did you TRY?  Unbelievable.

I get so much edification through studying Ray’s responses to some of the people who write to him. I try to think…..before I read Ray’s answer….how would I answer this? Every time….EVERY TIME….I see that Ray has insights that I have not yet grasped and it is so refreshing and invigorating.

This particular reader I may have answered in a more luke warm more psychologically empathetic manner that could have felt softer or more persuasive but would not have had any benefit to the person to correct, edify and warn him with vigour and  stamina of spirit, intolerance of deception and strength against error which is what Ray brings to the fore in his response to this soul in bondage who thinks he has seen hell. On the surface Rays response may appear as harsh and insensitive..... but cutting off gangrene may also appear harsh and insensitive to a toxic mind that is dying to keep alive in all the wrong mis-lead ways. I think Ray heard the cry for help and I see nothing but love in Ray’s astute response, accurate rebuttal and astringent warning. Love is a consuming fire! Here I see the other cheek being turned not in indifference or self pity, but in pain felt for the assailant and desire spoken to tell him to take up his bed and walk. I would have bent down and tried to help or persuade….caught the leprosy and joined the paralysis in dire foolishness which is exactly where Mystery Babylon teachings would have us all end up.

I am not saying a gentle word is not valuable. I am saying do we know when to respond with urgency, dexterity and tenacity or have you like me been taught to always be soft, sweet and complacent? In other words what we are taught by Mystery Babylon are teachings tailored through much professional experience who’s teachings lead us to join the mat of soul sickness and become ineffective, lukewarm, unhealthy and soulfully corrupted by wrong teachings designed to pare and make blunt the edge of our swords. ……

Notice, Ray did not quote one scripture but wow, the sword of the Word of God was right through the communication!

…do you hate?….do you reckon God hates?…do you think this is good?…what good?….I believe you are sick….Don’t e-mail me again until you repent for dishonouring and disrespecting your earthly father.

That sounds to me like….I am not getting down there with you. Get up and take up your bed and walk!……

Peace to you

Arcturus :)
Title: Re: Take up
Post by: gmik on December 23, 2006, 01:55:30 PM
Arcturus, I agree.

When I read that e mail I just was amazed at the answer. Ray is truly one of a kind.
Your response gave words to my feelings!

Title: Re: Take up
Post by: Deborah-Leigh on December 23, 2006, 02:03:55 PM
Like mindedness Gena. ...thank you!

Sometimes a harsh cutting word cuts away the filth of error which I hope has happened for the pain ridden soul that wrote in...........God set up this site and blesses us with showing us His ways.........It is truly wonderful!

Peace to you

Arcturus :)

Title: Re: Take up
Post by: mari_et_pere on December 23, 2006, 02:19:14 PM

It amazes me how people correlate a subconcious brain fart with a vision from the Almighty God. How many weirdo distortions to the Word have been believed by thousands, if not millions of people just because of somebody's dream that they had the night before? We have to seperate reality, which is located soundly in the lines of God's Word, from our human "understanding." We believe what we experience in this world as reality, but what we perceive isn't always what the Scriptures say is really going on. This person saw hell in a "vision." A vision from where? And from whom? And why?

Sometimes our confusion and pain blinds us from the truth and allows lies to be believed.

Title: Re: Take up
Post by: Deborah-Leigh on December 23, 2006, 02:46:16 PM
Hello Marie et pere

For me it is really very sad actually until I shake myself off, dust off my feet and pick myself up by the scruff of my neck and gather  up my mat to keep walking :D  Don’t you think that this.....subconcious brain fart....  is how we all have to grow up from puking babies to compassionate and then strong in the spirit adults of which Ray certainly is! 

The challenge is that we have to love these ugly ducklings and  not feel superior or  look down on these souls in excruciating pain and agony. What I am learning is NOT TO JOIN THEM through misplaced compassion and softy sentimentality. I have suffered the pain and I am most certain that before anyone comes to be shown the truths of God we all have to suffer. When I forget this  I am soon reminded to stay humble under pain of humiliation or pain of suffering! What is amazing to me is that what some people suffer appears to me to be  parallel to the pagan description of hell itself with two exceptions….it is not eternal because God will save us all!…and Hell does not exist except in the minds of such bound souls of whom their drug addicted brothers will swear they have seen Hell too if they have not died of fright or have been drawn into the proverbial bad trip. The visions are real. The interpretations are  out of sync with what is real in Sprit and in Truth. In this I agree with you Marie et pere.

I am challenged every time to see this agony as THE PLAN and the end result as the WILL of God which is great for us all and not to be chocked up, sorrow driven and depression bound for the darkness that is clearly upon the world that would beckon us to join in  self seeking shows of compassion and approval attracting efforts to appear saintly!

The scriptures do not contradict. I see Ray sharing in this pain of the soul who took the time through mind bending agony to communicate with Ray. I see Ray putting aside his own opportunity to gain an audience from the world, by answering from the Spirit that will continue to attract to Ray disagreement and disapproval from the world but great love an appreciation from the brethren.

I see Rays response as selfless, compassionate and true salt light and pearls of wisdom given unstintingly to a soul in prison. In so doing, Ray is feeding the hungry, giving drink to the thirsty and visiting the soul in prison. The soul that cries Hell is real!

Peace to you brother

Arcturus :)
Title: Re: Take up
Post by: rrammfcitktturjsp on December 23, 2006, 08:49:38 PM
To all,

  Ray really excites me.  To be able to stand up for his faith and defend it astounds me.  I hope and pray that everyday, that I may be able to stand up courageously as he does. 

  I agree with you Arcturus, I would have probably done a much softer answer.  I do know that the Spirit was prompting Ray to say what he said in that manner.  Sometimes that fine line is so hard to walk.  That's why I am glad that I do not have to act on my own impulses anymore, I just wait for the Spirit to prompt me.


  Anne C. McGuire
Title: Re: Take up
Post by: gmik on December 23, 2006, 11:22:10 PM
Hanging around in pentecostal/faith..circles for years I would always cringe when people would just blab away...The Lord told me this and the Lord told me that.  I don't even get out of bed unless the Lord tells me.  I don't buy a can of peaches unless the Lord told me.  Get this one, one day a friend came over and looked around and said the Lord told her if my windows were clean than she was to tell me the Lord was pleased w/ me! One gal said the Lord always told her secrets in the bathtub.

Now, even tho I was "one of em" I never GOT all that.  I never heard from Him in such casual terms..he said, then I said, then He said....Now I never judged them as most of the time I believed them and assumed I was not as spiritual as they were.  But ya know what?? Those WERE brain farts!!! or they were liars!! Delusioned bcz they so badly wanted to be really like that!!

It was the fear of hell that got my husband and my attention to "get saved".  Gosh, I am so glad the Lord blessed me and got me thru it and out of all that.  Nothing I did, I wasn't looking for anything new in scripture.  I assumed I knew it all! ::)

Ha  I didn't know anything!!!!! :-[

Title: Re: Take up
Post by: Deborah-Leigh on December 24, 2006, 06:28:28 AM
Yes gena  :D

Right on the button! I too have seen this. Some seek agreement and others seek the truth. Some seek to be right before man and others prefer right standing before God. And when emotionalism wedge its way in a discussion, truth seems to disappear and egos appear. Why do people always want you to accept and agree with them just because they said something? Is it maybe because carnal man always wants to be right? And where is God’s place in this? I believe in honesty and truth. But truth founded in thorough research, investigation, deliberation and discussions. Yet we must search for truth in the realization of Gods greatness and love.

I have seen the world, the Church and the world systems run parallel The Universities do what the Churches do. They both put up on their podiums or  the pulpits their anointed  ones and the "thus sayeth the Lord" authorities. Therewith they create the control and manipulation and indoctrination systems with what the Churches traditionally  / historically dominated and ruled the world. Nowadays with separation of State and Church the Churches domain just shifted to dominate, indoctrinate and manipulate people on an individual level (and definitely by group and cultural associations also) The Church uses your faith against you to control you. Likewise, as in the case of Universities, people of the world are impressed by strings of degrees behind a name that say nothing of the moral fibre or integrity of the person with such degrees.

Carnal agreement and fellowship in emotions will get you into the crowded temple where the crowds hanker after self-improvement. Spiritual solitude and no place for the son of man to rest His head will get you into the presence of God in submission to His grace mercy and unmerited favour.

I love it that Jesus was the son of a carpenter, Ray a retired roofer and Paul was the tent maker. Whether you are a king or a pauper, a rich man or poor man, God is sovereign and almighty. We all go through on individual pathways set before us by God. Most people do not like honesty and truth because it shows them for what they are and what they stand for and where they stand before God. The truth hurts, cleanses, purifies in chastising fire of integrity and right standing before God. Few indeed stand in this zone or are prepared to step into this kind of fire. Comfy cosy agreement, carnal sentimental fellowship is not the same as the bright light of honesty soulfully and painstakingly walked in solitude one on one fellowship with the Shepherd.

To be right is so overrated. To be true to God is enriching. 

Peace to you

Arcturus :)
Title: Re: Take up
Post by: Rene on December 24, 2006, 01:26:43 PM

I know you have heard this before, but I must say that you truly are blessed with the ability to express yourself in a beautiful and poetic way.  I do enjoy reading your responses!

May the Lord continue to bless you with wisdom and understanding.

Title: Re: Take up
Post by: Deborah-Leigh on December 24, 2006, 07:30:14 PM

Your words are kind, loving and encouraging. Thank you.

Peace and love to you

Arcturus :)
Title: Re: Take up
Post by: deejcop on December 25, 2006, 01:19:44 AM
I believed Ray answered a fool according to a fool. I could not believe how callous this emailer seemed. For instance, it's bad enough that he believes that he worships a god who will torment people in literal fire, but that this god actually SHOWS the emailer his own father being tormented in flame...and he actually believes that it was his dad. And then for him to quote that oft-used lie that "Jesus spoke more about hell than He did heaven."

I guess being a cop for so long, I can just tell when people are sincere, and when they're just trying to push my buttons. I think Ray has great discernment in answering these people.
Title: Re: Take up
Post by: andrevan on December 25, 2006, 09:37:40 AM
Thanks Arcturus for your fantastic post. After I read this email and Ray's reply, I pondered it for the rest of the day. Ray's reply was such a help to me in getting my head around hell testimonies like this one. Ray asked all the right questions. Your post wrapped it up nicely, thanks.  :)

God bless.
Title: Re: Take up
Post by: Deborah-Leigh on December 25, 2006, 02:20:00 PM
Hello deejcop

Yes discernment ;D that is it. Well said! 

Andrevan isn't it simply astounding just how insidious that teaching on Hell is and how dumbfounding it is that so many are caught by its seduction and lies. For me this shows that many are still weak in spirit and in strenght who are still courting this heresy.

Peace to you

Arcturus :)
Title: Re: Take up
Post by: Deborah-Leigh on December 25, 2006, 04:46:46 PM
Hello Anne

You wrote :  I hope and pray that everyday, that I may be able to stand up courageously as he does.   

I agree that Ray sets us an example of spiritual maturity that I too admire that the Lord has given to him. He is a light on a hill and salt in due season!....not to mention all the pearls of wisdom he shares with us! :)

Peace to you

Arcturus :)