bible-truths.com/forums
=> General Discussions => Topic started by: jennie on January 09, 2009, 01:37:14 PM
-
Have ya'll heard this on the t.v. There are preachers that say if your faith is big enough God will bless you with material goods. I don't get it. Are we not supposed to think of others first and do for them? If you can "name it and claim it" ....here goes. Longhorn is President with Musicman the Vice and Ninny the pres. advisor and Craif "a.k.a. Barney Fife will be the diplomatic ambassador to lighten everyone up with humor so we won't have wars, my husband will have a job. we won't be sinking with our debts right now, the country is no longer in recession and every person has all there needs met! Now , if it doesn't happen ya'll will know I don't have enough faith. It is hard to hear that stuff when life is kicking you down you know? That is why I changed the channel. Much love to all, Jennie
-
whether you have faith or not, does not mean you will get materials, but a man that has materials is blessed by God and SHOULD thank him.
If you don't you should still thank him for what you have, health, life, and other stuff.
Just yesterday there was an earthquake here and 4 persons died.
-
Jennie,
I know exactly what you're saying. The name-it-and-claim-it folks have some screws loose to say the least! Oh so I guess if you've got money problems and your husband lost his job and your kids are sick, it's all because sister, YOU DON'T HAVE ENOUGH FAITH! I could borrow some nice words from Longhorn and Musicman, but I am a lady so I won't!! ;D That is so much BULL!!
oooh, cool I always wanted to be the presidential adviser!! :o Heehee! :D Yep, I'm feeling all political right now!! 8)
Carlos, I'm so sorry for those who died in the earthquake.
I can tell you if I had a lot of wealth I'd be thankful! I'm thankful for everyday I wake up alive!! For every time I open my eyes and can see, Ray said in one of his studies that he goes to sleep every night thanking God for all his blessings. When I heard that I said I'm going to do that, too! I thank God everyday that he healed my grandson of his brain tumor! If you think there is anything we should be thankful for in this life just wake up and look at your little 2 year old grandson with a scar going down the back of his head and a little eye that slightly crosses, and a little leg that's weaker than the other one then my friend you tell someone to be thankful for what God gives you! You'll be too busy falling down on your face daily crying to God in thankfulness for every moment you have, because God gives it and He can take it away! :'( I can hear them now with their phony tears "Oh, Praise the Lord my child was sick and I just didn't have the faith to see him healed! So I started planting 'Faith seeds' and with in a week my boy was healed and the Lord blessed me with so much money I was able to buy a new Mercedes!"
Whew! I feel better now! Sorry Carlos I wasn't meaning to yell at YOU, it's those dimwits the name it claim it people! OH! They need a reality check! :P
Kathy :)
-
I once was in the name it claim it movement.
I never was so physically without, sometimes even having food was a treat.
Yet these preachers would say give according to your need, If I had not given to the church I would have had food.
All I can say now after this deceitful practice is COME OUT don't wait until your flat on your face.
I lost a lot of finances during this more than 20 years, but am so grateful God showed me the truth.
The *Name it claim it* is such Liars.
-
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
-
::)
-
What is name it and claim it???
Eileen
-
Give and it will be given.
They are taking a verse and using it to say the more you give the more you recieve.
That is how It was in the pentacostal church I was in, it never worked like that for me I just got poorer and poorer.
The church was using this to say we will have, the more you give the more you get.
Give out of your need.
I finally realized this was spiritual.
-
Also, Ray did a great bible study from June 2008 about this same heretical practice: http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,8256.0.html
Marques
-
Hey Eileen,
I have friends who are still in this movement.
It all boils down to you wanting something and claiming it before its yours.
If you don't get it then your convinced by your pastor that you do not have enough faith to receive it.
So how do you solve the problem? Give more tithes and offering!!
Watch out when they actually get what they wanted, the boasting never ends!
"Name it claim it"
"Believe it receive it"
This little formula has people walking around thinking there entitled to things that do not belong to them.
its a very deceiving heretical practice and all materialistic!
This section of I Corinthians comes to mind:
1Co 4:6 Friends, I have used Apollos and myself as examples to teach you the meaning of the saying, "Follow the rules." I want you to stop saying that one of us is better than the other.
1Co 4:7 What is so special about you? What do you have that you were not given? And if it was given to you, how can you brag?
1Co 4:8 Are you already satisfied? Are you now rich? Have you become kings while we are still nobodies? I wish you were kings. Then we could have a share in your kingdom.
Contemporary English Version
Rays Audio on Sowing Spiritual Seed is very good!!
You should listen when you can Eileen
Hopes this helps!
Antaiwan
-
Thanks Antaiwan. That really cleared it up for me. Sounds like "the power of positive thinking" as if I could think things into being or happening. I am glad I was never introduced to that "movement". It's amazing that people could actually buy into that and in spite of scripture to boot.
Thank you God for showing me the way.
Eileen
-
So God's like a genie? Excellent!
-Sarcasm
-
Yeah, God's their Genie! Ha! Some churches are more subtle with it. They just tell you to plant seeds of faith and God will grow you a miracle or God will bless you in some way. It makes you almost afraid NOT to pay tithes when you are into it. It's a very controlling mentality they have.
Makes you sick and nervous until you know what the scam is!
-
Amen, Dennis! God is the One who gives us gifts FREELY without any help from us! ;D
Antaiwan, don't forget this one..Blab it and grab it! That little short preacher from Louisiana white haired guy, can't think of his name, the one who loves to buy cars? BIG "blab it and grab it" guy! I know some people who used to be in his church, they said "Oh he gives away a LOT of money every year!"...whatever! :P
Kathy ;)
-
Hi Ninny
Jessie Duplantis I believe, he was the one that went to heaven and had Abraham and Moses for a neighbor. HAHA
Honestly it is hard to imagine that people fall for the name it claim it blab it grab it, but I did for a time desperate people do desperate things.
It is really sad for me to think about, because my 2 girls grew up in that, so it is hard for one daughter to trust now, the other is a converted Catholic.
I feel pretty sad about it all.
-
Do these ministers actually speak those words aloud? "blab it, grab it" and "name it claim it" "believe it receive it"??? Seriously? :-\ ???
Eileen
-
whether you have faith or not, does not mean you will get materials, but a man that has materials is blessed by God and SHOULD thank him.
If you don't you should still thank him for what you have, health, life, and other stuff.
Just yesterday there was an earthquake here and 4 persons died.
hi carlos,
i was reading about the earthquake in costa rica on the internet news and thought about you. i said a prayer for your safety.
claudia
-
Do these ministers actually speak those words aloud? "blab it, grab it" and "name it claim it" "believe it receive it"??? Seriously? :-\ ???
Eileen
Yes they do, though I never heard anyone say blab it grab it?
I have heard name it claim it and believe it receive it many times! There are also songs with this phrase in it.
The scriptures they use to justify this practice are:
Mar 11:23 For verily I say unto you, That whosoever shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; and shall not doubt in his heart, but shall believe that those things which he saith shall come to pass; he shall have whatsoever he saith.
Mar 11:24 Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them.
They believe it is by their faith that these things can happen and not by the faith of Christ.
Jesus also says that by prayer only can these things be and he gave the example of how we should pray.
Its not rubbing a lamp and God pops out and grants you any wish you desire.
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Eileen,
I came out of the baptist church and this practice is the norm. It is really deep with them. All this carry's over to the Word of Faith Movement also. I would just say stay away from anyone practicing this at its core its superstition.
They believe anything you say out of your mouth will manifest itself into physical things.
Its really ridiculous :P
Hope this helps you
Antaiwan
-
Antaiwan,
Just one more question. How does this "name it claim it" thing translate into tithing? I mean regarding the scripture you quoted. I don't see how they use that to get you to tithe. Sounds like all one would have to do is pray for it and believe it so why tithe?
Eileen
-
A long time ago the 700 club was telling everyone that God could deliver them from smoking. They told the listeners to show their faith by sending them the money they would normally spend on cigarettes. If they did that they had enough faith to be healed of smoking. You would claim your healing by sending them the money.
Others said the more money you sent the more God would multiply it and give it back to you. The more you gave the wealthier you would become.
They all twist scripture to back it up.
-
Thank you Jackie Lee. Yes Jessie Duplantis! I have heard him say "blab it and grab it" I have heard Creflo Dollar say "blab it and grab it", too. I used to watch TBN and man you hear TONS of stuff on there!! O my there are lots of strange things in this world! Ha!
Oh yeah Antaiwan, they are just so bold about the tithe, it doesn't matter what you give other than the tithe, they just insist on the tithe, people believe it because they use the verses that say "would you rob God?". I mean really, people are vulnerable when it comes to thinking they have to please God. The churches use every means possible to get your money!
Jesus did say:
Luk 6:38 be giving, and it shall be given to you: a measure ideal, squeezed down and shaken together and running over, shall they be giving into your bosom. For the same measure with which you are measuring will be measured to you again." CLV
The KJV says it differently: Luk 6:38 Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.
Now do you see anything that says GOD will give it to you?? Nooo. It say MEN will do this! I guess they mean God will cause men to give you the blessing? That is where they get all this name it and claim it stuff, BUT if you don't pay tithes, it won't work!!
That's the way I see it!
Kathy :D
-
I seen this special on Oprah (don't ask) ::) ::) ::) about this subject. I think it was said what you put out there comes back to you. Samething. Well I am a pessimistic person to begin with, this is something i am working on at all times. well most of the time. I thought I would give it a try now this a a long time ago. it did not work for me. So I decided to do at least one good deed a day. Helping an older person get across the street. or getting something off the top shelf from the store they could not reach. things of this nature. I found this to be quite satisfying. Call it what you will. karma what goes around comes around, do on to others as you would have done on to you. It is better to give than receive. It works for me.
-
That theory is different! That is the golden rule! Do unto others as you would have them do unto you! The other thing is YOU give to GOD and GOD gives back to YOU! This doesn't involve doing good to others. You are blessed when you do for others especially those who are NOT able to reciprocate! Giving to God just so that you will receive something in return isn't the same!
Kathy :D
-
Well Stand back and duck. :-[
This morning i went to church :o no no not walked into church (online). RR Fred Price, i think
in Los Angeles; well i saw someone not Fred preaching or at least using the Bible to get out his
give to receive message. Amazing how he used the very same Scriptures we study and always
managed to stop on the brink of anything Spiritual. He used the parable of The Sower and the
Seed: Mat 13-3-9 all tied to sow seed= give money; reap= get your desires from God. Oh he
was also a seller of christian records and if only the church bought his records he could easily
sell more than a million (but he did not need much). ::)
What Perfidy, >:( my big question is; Are they truly deceived :-\ or; have they decided that
there is no God for them to give an account to. ???
The truly sad part was watching all the desperately hoping people sitting there and praying that
he was right. I was there once; you were there once and now; since we have been dragged out,
we can see how great the deception is.
Isaiah 66:4:
I also will choose their delusions, and will bring their fears on them; because when I called, none
did answer; when I spoke, they did not hear: but they did evil before my eyes, and chose that in
which I delighted not.
II Thessalonians 2:10:
And with all delusion of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love
of the truth, that they might be saved.
II Thessalonians 2:11:
And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
george. :'(
-
Carlos, I am sorry to hear of the earthquake you experience. I hope and pray all is well with your folks.
I have heard a bunch of preachers say "name it and claim it" right from behind a pulpit I never did agree with it specially when I would see them living in million dollar homes and driving high priced cars when people were in need.
-
To be technacally correct, the term "blab it and grab it" , refers to those babylonean denominations that actually oppose the "word of faith" movement. They use this term to describe the movement. Unfortunately they have no better belief and error also.
beloved
-
To be technacally correct, the term "blab it and grab it" , refers to those babylonean denominations that actually oppose the "word of faith" movement. They use this term to describe the movement. Unfortunately they have no better belief and error also.
beloved
Yeah, thats what I have read on apologetic websites beloved.
Also,
Eileen, I think you anwsered your own question! ;D
Antaiwan,
Just one more question. How does this "name it claim it" thing translate into tithing? I mean regarding the scripture you quoted. I don't see how they use that to get you to tithe. Sounds like all one would have to do is pray for it and believe it so why tithe?
Eileen
Antaiwan
-
Hello everyone
I have noticed that a lot of what the church leaders do and teach is anti-Christ, the very opposite of the Messiah (much like their predecessors really).
Ezekiel 34
2 Son of man, prophesy against the shepherds of Israel, prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD unto the shepherds: Woe be to the shepherds of Israel that feed themselves! Should not the shepherds feed the flocks?
3 Ye eat the fat, and ye clothe yourselves with the wool, ye kill the ones that are fed; but ye feed not the flock.
4 The diseased have ye not strengthened, neither have ye healed that which was sick, neither have ye bound up that which was broken, neither have ye brought again that which was driven away, neither have ye sought that which was lost; but with force and with cruelty have ye ruled them.
Almost anti-Christ, as it is the very opposite of what Christ was called to do:
Luke 4:18
18 "The Spirit of the Lord is upon Me, because He hath anointed Me to preach the Gospel to the poor. He hath sent Me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,
19 to preach the acceptable year of the Lord."
The first time I read this passage below I was deeply concerned. Can they really not understand this? Do they think this is referring to some (other) charlatans?
Jeremiah 23
1 "Woe be unto the pastors that destroy and scatter the sheep of My pasture!" saith the LORD.
20 The anger of the LORD shall not return, until He has executed and till He has performed the thoughts of His heart; in the latter days ye shall consider it perfectly.
21 "I have not sent these prophets, yet they ran; I have not spoken to them, yet they prophesied.
22 But if they had stood in My counsel and had caused My people to hear My words, then they should have turned them from their evil way and from the evil of their doings.
24 Can any hide himself in secret places, that I shall not see him?" saith the LORD. "Do not I fill heaven and earth?" saith the LORD.
25 "I have heard what the prophets said who prophesy lies in My name, saying, 'I have dreamed, I have dreamed.'
26 How long shall this be in the heart of the prophets who prophesy lies? Yea, they are prophets of the deceit of their own heart,
27 who think to cause My people to forget My name by their dreams which they tell every man to his neighbor, as their fathers have forgotten My name for Baal.
28 The prophet that hath a dream, let him tell a dream; and he that hath My word, let him speak My word faithfully. What is the chaff to the wheat?" saith the LORD.
29 "Is not My word like as a fire?" saith the LORD, "and like a hammer that breaketh the rock in pieces?
30 "Therefore behold, I am against the prophets," saith the LORD, "that steal My words every one from his neighbor.
31 Behold, I am against the prophets," saith the LORD, "that use their tongues and say, 'He saith.'
32 Behold, I am against them that prophesy false dreams," saith the LORD, "and do tell them, and cause My people to err by their lies and by their lightness; yet I sent them not, nor commanded them. Therefore they shall not profit this people at all," saith the LORD.
33 "And when this people or the prophet or a priest shall ask thee, saying, 'What is the burden of the LORD?' thou shalt then say unto them, 'What burden? I will even forsake you, saith the LORD.'
34 And as for the prophet and the priest and the people who shall say, 'The burden of the LORD,' I will even punish that man and his house.
35 Thus shall ye say every one to his neighbor and every one to his brother, 'What hath the LORD answered?' and, 'What hath the LORD spoken?'
36 And the burden of the LORD shall ye mention no more, for every man's word shall be his burden; for ye have perverted the words of the living God, of the LORD of hosts our God.
37 Thus shalt thou say to the prophet, 'What hath the LORD answered thee?' and, 'What hath the LORD spoken?'
38 But since ye say, 'The burden of the LORD,' therefore thus saith the LORD: Because ye say this word, 'The burden of the LORD,' and I have sent unto you, saying, 'Ye shall not say: The burden of the LORD,'
39 therefore behold, I, even I, will utterly forget you, and I will forsake you and the city that I gave you and your fathers, and cast you out of My presence.
40 And I will bring an everlasting reproach upon you, and a perpetual shame which shall not be forgotten."
But then I remembered that GOD does blind some, and does send them delusions.
Isaiah 56
10 His watchmen are blind; they are all ignorant; they are all dumb dogs, they cannot bark, sleeping, lying down, loving to slumber.
11 Yea, they are greedy dogs which can never have enough, and they are shepherds that cannot understand; they all look to their own way, every one for his gain, from his quarter.
12 "Come ye," say they, "I will fetch wine, and we will fill ourselves with strong drink; and tomorrow shall be as this day, and much more abundant." [Very familiar sounding phrase we have here]
George, I think some know exactly what they are doing and may not believe there really is a GOD to give an account to. But I believe most are deceived, delusional if I may. Otherwise, they would know that the Gospel is not about them & their church buildings but about Christ and His church.
John 21
15 So when they had dined, Jesus said to Simon Peter, "Simon, son of Jonah, lovest thou Me more than these?" He said unto Him, "Yea, Lord; Thou knowest that I love Thee." He said unto him, "Feed My lambs."
16 He said to him again the second time, "Simon, son of Jonah, lovest thou Me?" He said unto Him, "Yea, Lord; Thou knowest that I love Thee." He said unto him, "Feed My sheep."
17 He said unto him the third time, "Simon, son of Jonah, lovest thou Me?" Peter was grieved because He said unto him the third time, "Lovest thou Me?" And he said unto Him, "Lord, Thou knowest all things. Thou knowest that I love Thee." Jesus said unto him, "Feed My sheep”.
2 Corinthians 12:14
[KJV] Behold, for the third time I am ready to come to you, and I will not be burdensome to you, for I seek not yours, but you. For the children ought not to lay up for the parents, but the parents for the children.
[NLT] Now I am coming to you for the third time, and I will not be a burden to you. I don’t want what you have—I want you. After all, children don’t provide for their parents. Rather, parents provide for their children.
[NIV] Now I am ready to visit you for the third time, and I will not be a burden to you, because what I want is not your possessions but you. After all, children should not have to save up for their parents, but parents for their children.
It is all in GOD's Will though. We have to bear this in mind.
kweli