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=> General Discussions => Topic started by: dave on May 13, 2011, 03:00:52 PM
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I was just sitting here considering when we come to that place in our time that death/expiring is the next step of our journey, does the thought of dying bring saddness for having to leave all our family, friends, things weve done, things we still wanted to do, not being able to do the one last thing? Is that what we will be thinking?
Or is it not knowing and maybe fear of what is going to happen when that last breath of living is exhaled?
For me I believe it will be the saddness of having to leave all family, friends, things Ive done, things I still wanted to do, not being able to do the one last thing. For me death has to be the end, the stop, loss of all memory, done, finished,over, but in the midst of that saddendess of having to leave people and things I loved and cared about when I was breathing, the Grace of Father comforts me knowing that Jesus loved me, found me, drew me, and that what is in store is being in the ALL IN ALL.
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Not sure about all that Micah but I can assure you from experience that when someone is lying on their deathbed in severe pain...even though they've been pumped full of morphine to the brim...they're thinking along the lines of pain release, and I've heard that cry of pain. It's agonizing even to those who hear it. Thoughts of leaving and/or missing anything else is secondary.
Sorry, morbid but true.
gk
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Not sure about all that Micah but I can assure you from experience that when someone is lying on their deathbed in severe pain...even though they've been pumped full of morphine to the brim...they're thinking along the lines of pain release, and I've heard that cry of pain. It's agonizing even to those who hear it. Thoughts of leaving and/or missing anything else is secondary.
Sorry, morbid but true.
gk
Im sure that is true in many cases and it is not morbid, but real. But there are many that do not have that trauma possibly, and before the pain I would think the thoughts along the lines I described were thought about? No?
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It's always futile to play the 'this is what I would do' game. We just never know what we'll do in any given situation, especially in an intense moment. We can only hope:
Rom 8:24-25 We were saved in this hope, but hope that is seen is not hope; for why does one still hope for what he sees? But if we hope for what we do not see, we eagerly wait for it with perseverance.
Marques
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1Co 15:19 If we have set our hopes on Christ in this life only, we deserve more pity than any other people.
1Co 15:20 But at this moment Christ stands risen from the dead......
Notice beyond the dark veil of death, The Resurrection of all life, where death has no hold and the veil torn from above to below, has opened the Holy Place where stands unity in the Presence of God.
Joh 3:19 And this is the basis for judgment: The Light has come into the world
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Not sure about all that Micah but I can assure you from experience that when someone is lying on their deathbed in severe pain...even though they've been pumped full of morphine to the brim...they're thinking along the lines of pain release, and I've heard that cry of pain. It's agonizing even to those who hear it. Thoughts of leaving and/or missing anything else is secondary.
Sorry, morbid but true.
gk
Im sure that is true in many cases and it is not morbid, but real. But there are many that do not have that trauma possibly, and before the pain I would think the thoughts along the lines I described were thought about? No?
No man knows anothers mind and heart Micah, only God. But you know that already. I'm certain there are those who have, are and will be given the opportunity to think as you've described.
For me, I want none of it as I've grown tired of regrets and thoughts of 'do-overs'. Make it quick. Ray said somewhere (I think I remember it somewhere in a paper of his) that we spend a lifetime trying to figure out how to get out of this life.
And he's right.
gk
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Speaking in general, I've started leaning more towards not thinking about "What I'm going to do" in the future - be it tomorrow, the next hour, or 10+ years from now. When it comes to death, it will be as He decides. I can only hope that He would allow it to be quick and painless. Death itself doesn't scare me as the Scriptures call it sleep. The act of dying, however, and all the pain that can go with it, does give me pause. It seems like personal arrogance to think about what I am going to do. If our footsteps are ordered by Him, then it isn't up to me. I can only hope that when that time comes, He will show mercy.
Those are just my thoughts of late. I don't know if that contributes to the overall conversation.
Blessings,
John
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Thanks for all the replys. It was just something I had fallen into thought about. I am in agreement with all of you. thanks again.
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Hi Miah7:9,
Well for the world that have no real knowledge of the truth I would think death is very frightening. They're ideas are too much fairy tale sounding and it just can not really give confidence of what happens and that's why they have so much fear, IMO.
But we do know the truth and we should know that when we close our eyes for the last time in this world, it should be with a smile on our face!! Why? Because we know what happens next, our next moment of conscientiousness (twinkle of an eye) will be in the presents of Jesus Christ!! God will take care of what is yet to happen in this world and that should give believers great comfort, and whatever we were concerned with in this life family, friends, things we were in the process of doing will become insignificant in the realization of what is happening at that point. The trials and tribulations of this life will be coming to an end and for the few we should have high hopes of the first resurrection. We should keep our minds on the hope that lies within us, so we can say like Paul did,
2Tim 4:7 I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
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That Kat is how I thought my reply went. As for the pain, Ive felt pain, Ive had pain, but when I did I did not have the knowledge and faith in Jesus. Im not saying pain is not felt, but I believe now, as I know the Lord and He knows me, my desire is to keep my eye on Him and if there is pain, I should trust in Him , and He will make the pain as painfull as He sees fit. Its all about Jesus :)
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Death isn't "the end"; it's only a "pause". That's all that really matters. :D 8)
Daywalker
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Kat,
That was inspiring and moving.
I thought of the following verse that inspires me. It's one of my favorite
verses in the Bible.
Jude 1:24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present [you] faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,
Jude 1:25 To the only wise God our Saviour, [be] glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen
The above verse doesn't always get associated with death, but I think it applies. After all, when are we going to be presented before the presence of His glory? I'm assuming at the time of death, right?
Exceeding joy, Sounds good. I'm in.
Aktikt
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can any one get this topic " an encouraging word about death" Ray treated it some years ago thanks-olasupo
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Here is a link to the article you ask for Olasupo.
http://bible-truths.com/death.htm
Kat
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I think I can handle the dying part as long as I don't go like Elvis, you know, while I'm making a doodie cake.
Longhorn
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As John From Kentucky quoted "Don't worry about anything"
As a teacher of martial arts I have studied and thought a lot about the concept of dying and what if I'm in a situation where I just might not make it out THIS time. I wonder about why is it that I wanted to learn the things I have. Initially it was for myself but as I have gone on over the years I have found that the desire to protect those around me is far more important. So when I train, I train with that in mind, that if I were to fail while defending someone not only would it mean my defeat/death but the potential death of the person I am protecting. Martial artists don't think about things in this way nowadays, they don't look at themselves as a "warrior" would, they treat training like a game or hobby.
But I digress, the point of my explaining all of this is, to put it simply, the more I have thought about it, worrying over death is a pointless endeavor. The fact is I am going to die, so as bushido teaches, one should live their life as though they were going to die, as if today were to be your last. This way you will have no regrets. Most people do not live life this way, they think they have all the time in the world to make up their mind, achieve their dreams, etc.
Matthew 6:34 Be not therefore anxious for the morrow, for the morrow shall be anxious for its own things; sufficient for the day is the evil of it.
So all of the time I have spent contemplating and wondering about death brings me back to what the scriptures say, do not worry about it things such as this. Honor God, do your best at everything, do what you can for others, and go to the very end for whatever cause you are defending and you will live a good a life and when it is time to die, as I said, you will have no regrets.
God bless
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Like.. like.. like.. thanks Foxx!
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"Don't worry about anything..." Phl. 4:6
Before we were born, the Father already had decided the time of our death, how we will die, if we would be in the 1st Resurrection or not, and all other aspects of our life.
It is totally worthless and a waste of time to think or worry about something we have no control over.
"Life is like surfing a big wave. Hang on and enjoy the ride." John from Kentucky 1:1
Very, very true. I hope He will bring me to that point where I truly do not worry about anything, for I can rest in the knowledge that I am in His hands. I can see progress being made toward that, and it's a little more each day.
When I was 21, I was diagnosed with HIV, so I've been very aware of my death for quite some time. It squashed the "invincibility of youth." By the Grace and Mercy of God, I am still for all intents and purposes healthy, but none of us are promised tomorrow. My hope is that my life will be pleasing to Him - that's becoming my main perspective more and more.
Blessings,
John
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I've been close to death on several occasions, one time in particular in the hospital at night when no one else was around, I felt at that time if I went to sleep that night, I would die. So I did ever thing I could do to stay awake.
God chose to deliver me on each occasion, and every time has been a learning experience for me, as draining as that has been.
Dieing to ones self, speaking for myself and no one else, is just as much of a challenge to me as being near physical die.
Joel
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Why as believers in Jesus Christ do we as men/women fight so hard to stay alive in this world when we know that being with Him is so much better? Im not trying to be offensive, I was told 6 mos ago I had prostate cancer, ( I know Ray has the same problem) I went through weeks of radiololgy, I have not been told anything.... I wont know if it was good or not good. My point is I may be nearer than I thought, to dying. Thats why I ask about things like spiritual death(which is not taught in the Word) and death comes from dying yes? We dont get anywhere or further from this life without dying and dying is only the last step is it not?
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It is inevitable, inescapable that Jesus is Risen in His Kingdom that is in us.
Jesus is risen for the world He Saves without partiality or condemnation. ~ :)
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What is really sad is to stop and consider how we would of reacted to the same question before we believe what we believe now to be the truth of these things. Before I believed that I was 'saved' there was always the fear of going to hell and torment. After I thought I was 'saved' it was always the fight of 'well, I know that nothing can remove me from the love of Christ...except me! If I don't perform, don't repent right or anything else I can still be lost.' In other words I believe that nothing could take me away from Christ but I still thought that I too, was a god and that I could prevent God from doing what he wished in my life because what if my 'free will' got in the way? And then too there was the mental torment about having to get people saved and what about my parents and all those that I know of who died and were not saved? Ah...torments indeed!! For me now, I see death as sleep and when the time comes physical death will be welcome.. I don't want to go before my time of course and I am convinced that unless Christ comes first that I too, will die a physical death and I trust that God will be with me during that time as he has been for the rest of my life. I try not to take for granted the peace that I now have over all of these things because it wasn't too long ago that there was anything but real peace in these issues.
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I also am at peace about my death and realize what a blessing it is to know the truths that we have come to understand regarding the death state. However, it does not prevent me from the grief and sadness that comes from the loss of a love one. This is a pain that even knowledge does not take away. It is a necessary experience in this life. But even with that being said, I am convinced that my grief is less severe because I know the hope that lies ahead. :)
1Thes.4:13 - But, we do not want you to be uninformed, brothers, about those who are asleep, that you may not grieve as others do who have no hope.
René
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Php 1:20 According to my earnest expectation and my hope, that in nothing I shall be ashamed, but that with all boldness, as always, so now also Christ shall be magnified in my body, whether it be by life, or by death.
Php 1:21 For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain.
Php 1:22 But if I live in the flesh, this is the fruit of my labour: yet what I shall choose I wot not.
Php 1:23 For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better:
Php 1:24 Nevertheless to abide in the flesh is more needful for you.
Php 1:25 And having this confidence, I know that I shall abide and continue with you all for your furtherance and joy of faith;
Php 1:26 That your rejoicing may be more abundant in Jesus Christ for me by my coming to you again.
That's a good place to be.
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The link was great Kat....Ray always seems to say it best! :D
I just got over a week of bed-rest! ugh..acute pharygitis and cellulitis (two separate entities)...during the fever, chills, achy phase I never once had a holy thought! I just wanted to be over it and back to normal. Now my sickness was pretty puny compared to the awful pains out there w/ cancer, accidents, wars etc....
so, yes, I would want to leave this world pretty quickly and painlessly. but whilst in pain I don't think I am gonna be pious.
Ray said that heaven was a higher spiritual experience, not a geographical place. (sorry can't remember where he said that, but he did!) So when we do wake up for the resurrection I don't think it will be...oh, yeah, there's Jesus, oh and look over there is Susi etc etc- that is too earthly--I don't think we can imagine it now...even w/ scripture trying to help us.....
this is WAY beyond our understanding....
Death is an enemy that Jesus is victorious over...thats a comfort to me
(sorry for rambling, I am so excited to feel better and actually be on the forum)
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Hi Micah, honest and fair question. I've read many opinions in this thread and we all are in different seasons. If I was going through what you are I would be thinking alot about it too. Several have given good answers but the truth is you are thinking about it and that is normal. I went through about 10 years of not fearing death at all, mainly because of the truth I was learning. I must say though, now that I am in my mid 40's and see alot of pain and death around it has caused me to think about it from time to time. We do have alot of comfort in what we believe, but we also have the flesh and are prone to seasons of highs and lows. These are things that will all contend with and may we all be at peace when the time comes. Personally I have always hoped God would take me during a good night's sleep when I was old and tired. Oh well, we all have certain desires.
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Here is a link to the article you ask for Olasupo.
http://bible-truths.com/death.htm
Kat
Very good paper!
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Hi Micah, honest and fair question. I've read many opinions in this thread and we all are in different seasons. If I was going through what you are I would be thinking alot about it too. Several have given good answers but the truth is you are thinking about it and that is normal. I went through about 10 years of not fearing death at all, mainly because of the truth I was learning. I must say though, now that I am in my mid 40's and see alot of pain and death around it has caused me to think about it from time to time. We do have alot of comfort in what we believe, but we also have the flesh and are prone to seasons of highs and lows. These are things that will all contend with and may we all be at peace when the time comes. Personally I have always hoped God would take me during a good night's sleep when I was old and tired. Oh well, we all have certain desires.
Thanks. " Personally I have always hoped God would take me during a good night's sleep ..." This would be nice, would not matter if I was 2 months or 92 yrs old. I wish it could be requested.
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What is really sad is to stop and consider how we would of reacted to the same question before we believe what we believe now to be the truth of these things. Before I believed that I was 'saved' there was always the fear of going to hell and torment. After I thought I was 'saved' it was always the fight of 'well, I know that nothing can remove me from the love of Christ...except me! If I don't perform, don't repent right or anything else I can still be lost.' In other words I believe that nothing could take me away from Christ but I still thought that I too, was a god and that I could prevent God from doing what he wished in my life because what if my 'free will' got in the way? And then too there was the mental torment about having to get people saved and what about my parents and all those that I know of who died and were not saved? Ah...torments indeed!! For me now, I see death as sleep and when the time comes physical death will be welcome.. I don't want to go before my time of course and I am convinced that unless Christ comes first that I too, will die a physical death and I trust that God will be with me during that time as he has been for the rest of my life. I try not to take for granted the peace that I now have over all of these things because it wasn't too long ago that there was anything but real peace in these issues.
Isn't NOT having free will such a tremendous blessing? When God brought me to the place where I was no longer trying to "buy" my way into His good graces or thinking that it all rested on ME... it was as if the weight of the world fell off my shoulders. There was such a peace that replaced the stress, anxiety, anguish, etc. Thank God for no free will! :)
I didn't mean to hijack the thread, but I just wanted to comment on that as it pertains to death.
Blessings,
John
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Sometimes the death of this body puts me in a reflective mood, might even jerk a misty eye from time to time, but mostly not anymore. And I’ve thought long and very hard about the matter. I’ve seen enough brutality and pain, mis-timed absences and departures, missing particulars and participants in this world to know I’m sick of it all, plan or no plan. If it weren’t for having come to the knowledge (thanks Ray) that God has a purpose for every event I’d probably call God out on it to make the suffering end, an arm wrestling contest or something, winner take all. Come to think of it, I probably already have, many many times (that’s our usual morning-time front porch coffee chat), but you-all know that boring routine already. He’s forever the quiet type though (likes to hide behind a bush ;)). Maybe he keeps me around to laugh at me for all the fist shaking toward him.
But through a hard...long....mind-bending struggle... I’ve learned one good thing…..if I’m breathing then I have a purpose and nary bit of control on the matter. The value of our life, right down to the last breath and last movement, is rightly justified in his eyes. And I'm good with that.......finally. And this I’ve learned too: ‘you do not know what tomorrow will bring’. And this: ‘what is your life but a mist that appears for a little while’.
He gives, he takes away. That’s just the way it is.
John said it right, ‘we have no control in the matter’. That’s comforting, really, when you get it down to the nitty-gritty and after some long hard struggles in the mind of man. He works his way in whatever we do and now we know we do it for his will and purpose. Benefit package to follow.
And when it’s done, it’s done. And then we’ll lay our eyes on him. I look forward to that.
(of course, he’s got some ‘splainin’ to do, but whatever ??? ;D )
gk
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Hi Micah: I too confess that I've wandered down this road; my greatest concern was the grief that family and others might feel (if they liked me); my children and their future and not be around for them in times of need etc. etc. but God's word has consoled me that when I'm dead I can't worry anyway about what's going on with the living. He will take of that in His plan.
Good post and responses.
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Micah....I hope that you are feeling better and get healed/cured of the cancer. God Bless you during this time.
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1Thes.4:13 - But, we do not want you to be uninformed, brothers, about those who are asleep, that you may not grieve as others do who have no hope.
René
That's a fantastic scripture, Rene. Thanks!
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My hope and desire is to be included in "the few" at Christ's return. Though being clothed in white isn't my most flattering color, riding in with the saints on a horse will be pretty cool. Now being a part of judging the world, that sounds like sumpthin' that's right "up my alley" as I TEND to be opinionated! LOL
If I have to bear emotional pain on this earth as part of the purification process, then ok. As far as physical pain at death, if that's part of the purification process--I deserve that, too! God PROMISED that He will NOT give us "any more than we can bear" so I trust He will do to me WHATEVER it takes to purify me. Dat's dat!