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=> General Discussions => Topic started by: Sorin on January 07, 2007, 06:38:39 PM
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...but I'm not excited about the whole 'being saved' and given immortality thing. In other words, it doesn't look that good to me, in fact in some ways it's worse than this life. I used to think that the new life or 'eternal life' as Christians call it was going to be all the good things in life, and much more without any of the bad stuff [evil]. But as I now understand it, we are going to live forever, given immortality, never able to die again and we'll be like the angels, which don't marry?! Sounds awful to me, I mean seriously. what are we supposed to do for all eternity? And God even takes that away?! The muslim promise sounds much better, too bad it's a lie. But that sounds like heaven, not what the bible offers.
I mean it's great that God will not torture anyone with literal fire for all eternity, but I would rather be annihilated than be like 'the angels'.
So yes, God or no God, existence is rather sad and the future looks rather bleak too.
I hope I didn't offend,
Sorin
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Doesn't the Bible say that we canNOT even imagine all that is in store for us. That sounds like a good thing.
Honestly, I have thought the same thought. I'd rather just die and stay that way. Seems simpler - just like before I was born. When I first found out about universalism, I was kinda being swayed by preterism & annihialists- but their scripture never panned out for me and I kept being drawn back to BT.
I believe now that I can't possibly picture in my mind what it is going to be like, but God didn't go thru this entire plan in history w/ billions of people and kill His only Begotten Son for nothing- so I am sure it is going to be awesome!!! Testosterone? You won't even miss it!
love,
gena
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Sorin,
I don't think your post was offensive at all... infact, i think your honest opinion is refreshing because deep down I believe that no matter how "enlightened" many of us act like we are, we're all still human and struggle with the basic fears of the unknown eternity.
There are moments where I'm out driving by myself... all alone with my thoughts... and I find myself questioning whether there even is a God? Sometimes it is difficult to believe that a God who would create so much evil could not be evil Himself, yet I find so much comfort in the scriptures about how much He loves us and how well He knows what we truly need!
I'm still pretty new to the whole revelation of the salvation of all mankind, so I guess at the moment I'm just happy that I or any of my friends or family will not burn in literal fire for all of eternity, but the more I grow in my relationship with Christ the more I realize He is working what is best not only for Himself, but also for ME and YOU!
Give it some time bro, don't lose hope! In the end I believe with my whole heart we will not be dissapointed... your have my prayers friend.
God's Peace.
Josh
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Thanks guys for your replies and kind words. And Josh thanks for your honesty as well. I wasn't sure what kind of replies I would get to that post, but I figured if I can't openly discuss things here then it's no different then Babylon where no one is allowed to question, wonder, and discuss things that are 'out side the box' sort of speak.
So it's refreshing to be able to open up and discuss the things that are on my mind, and that concern me, without people getting all offended and judgemental
like in Christendom.
Take care guys,
Sorin
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Hi Sorin,
I think I understand what you are saying.
So what you were hoping for is this:
all the good things in life, and much more without any of the bad stuff [evil].
Well it is my belief that what we have in store can not be compared to anything in this life.
This life is for us to gain knowledge of good and bad. Some times the bad can be very bad.
Ecc 1:13 I applied my heart to inquiring and exploring by wisdom concerning all that is done under the heavens: it is an experience of evil Elohim has given to the sons of humanity to humble them by it. (CLV)
This experience is hard, but it is actually a really short time, but 'a vapor' (James 4:14). And we can not yet see beyond this world clearly.
1Co 13:12 For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall fully know even as I also am fully known.
But I have faith in the scripture that promise something wonderful to say the least.
Rev 2:7 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes I will give to eat of the Tree of Life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.
1Co 2:9 But as it is written, "Eye has not seen, nor ear heard," nor has it entered into the heart of man, "the things which God has prepared for those who love Him."
It is my belief that the universe was not created in vain. What is it's purpose, if not for God to continue to expand the beauty of creation out into the vastness of it.
There is no telling what part we may play in that. But I feel certain it will be grand.
What we have now is the beginning, a shadow of what is to come.
I hope this is of some encouragement to you :)
mercy, peace, and love
Kat
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Kat,
Thanks for that post. It was beautifully written!!!!!
Kennymac
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Ephesians 3
14For this reason I kneel before the Father, 15from whom his whole family in heaven and on earth derives its name. 16I pray that out of his glorious riches he may strengthen you with power through his Spirit in your inner being, 17so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith. And I pray that you, being rooted and established in love, 18may have power, together with all the saints, to grasp how wide and long and high and deep is the love of Christ, 19and to know this love that surpasses knowledge—that you may be filled to the measure of all the fullness of God.
20Now to him who is able to do immeasurably more than all we ask or imagine, according to his power that is at work within us, 21to him be glory in the church and in Christ Jesus throughout all generations, for ever and ever! Amen.
Luke 18
28Peter said to him, "We have left all we had to follow you!"
29"I tell you the truth," Jesus said to them, "no one who has left home or wife or brothers or parents or children for the sake of the kingdom of God 30will fail to receive many times as much in this age and, in the age to come, eternal life."
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Dear Sorin.
There is nothing offensive about your post :). I often struggle with many things in the Scriptures, especially what's to come after God is all in all. These are all natural feelings and can be expected as we grow and are stretched in our walk with God. On a few occasions I get excited and impatient ;D. On the other hand I often feel similar to how you do.
At times I have to ease off with the amount of knowledge I'm taking in, and just rest in the basics.
God is not far from you Sorin. Hang in there my friend, valleys are part of our training, and we are all here for you.
Kat, your post was edifying for me, I like what you said : "And we can not yet see beyond this world clearly." That helps me a lot. Thanks to you and M.G for those great verses.
Love to you all.
Andrevan.
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Hi Sorin,
I think we all have felt or feel like this at times. We try to imagine what Heaven will be like and we can only compare to the times we have felt happiness on earth. But for my self, looking back the things that used to make me happy, they where of the flesh, new home, new job, new car.......and only fleetingly. God says flesh and bone will not inherit the kingdom of heaven but that heaven is peace and happiness in the HS. So, i have to say at this time of my life i am more peaceful than i have ever been (even tho times have got harder). I remember joyful times and think this is nothing compared to the peace and joy in heaven. We will be differant, we will be spiritual, no need for fleshy things (we wont want them). It is extremely hard at times, but by being in His word, prayer and fellowshipping in here :), i am finding that He is in control, not me and the weight has just lifted off of my shoulders. His yoke is light.
God Bless you Sorin, rest in Him and He will give you His peace
YSIC
Sandie
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we'll be like the angels, which don't marry?! Sounds awful to me, I mean seriously. what are we supposed to do for all eternity? I hope I didn't offend,
Sorin
;D
Sorin,
I know EXACTLY how you feel, I have been there. Way back (35 years ago) as a 17 year old new covert (7th Day Adventist) I was aghast when my "mentor" explained how we would become like angels and not marry. Wow, talk about the rug being pulled from under your feet. I pretty much flipped, I got so animated in consternation that "Richard" could only laugh. He was in his late 30's and had been married for 18 years, he tried to explain that God had many things in store for us that we could not even imagine and that in faith we need to accept the fact that the Creator knows His creation better than we understand ourselves. It did not give me much comfort nor did it dampen my desires.
What does He have in store for us in the New Kingdom? What better things has He planned for us that we cannot even imagine? Can we contemplate heavenly things clearly in this (carnal) state, as we look through a darkened glass?
I do not have the answers for you Brother other than pray for faith and wisdom as you read and study His Word and the articles on Bible truths.
His Peace to you,
Joe
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I think this whole thread has so much honesty in it and I am glad to see that I am not the only one either. I don't know what it will be like but here is my dream or hope whaterver is may be called. Green grass that I can lay back in that won;t make me sick as I am allergic to grass! Laying back in the grass with my bare feet in a creek and my precious Michael being there with me. I think about what it will be like but I guess when that time comes we will be so happy with all the great things our minds cannot understand or think of that we won't even think of the "dreams we have dreamed" on this earth! Much love and a good morning to all, Jennie
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Hi Sorin,
I agree with the others. When I think of EVERYONE being saved ... billions upon billions of people ... it seems that our immortal existence will get pretty crowded. You know what I used to say? I wanted to die and go to heaven before the rapture so I would have a chance to learn my way around heaven. And all that talk about "meeting at the Eastern gate"? I suggested to my family that we meet at the WESTERN gate; that way, it will be a lot easier to find each other. LOL!!!
It's easy to look at the spiritual world with an earthly perspective. After all, this is all we know! Even now, I tend to think that our existence won't be so wonderful with all those PEOPLE there. Put me on an island with animals and leave me alone, LOL! With people, there is always misunderstandings, fighting and tensions. Who needs that?? So how can life in God's Kingdom be that great if PEOPLE will be there? Especially Hussein, Hitler, Castro, et.al.
That's the human perspective, and sometimes it's the only one I can see. But I do think it will be better. We all (myself included) will be perfect, so there will be none of the strife we face on a daily basis.
Sandy
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Another thing:
You know how it is when you move to a new house in a new neighbor, or get married, or begin any kind of pleasant new transition in your life? You go through a "honeymoon" phase. But after awhile the novelty wears off, and you get bored.
I always thought life in God's Kingdom would be that way. When Christ gathers us all home, at first it will be pure bliss. But after a few weeks, it will start to get "old." Imagine how boring it will be to live like that ... on and on and on, etc.
I hope God will have something for us to DO. Personally, I'd like to explore the universe. :)
Sandy
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I don't know. I could spend the first thousand years just asking Jesus questions. Like why he let so many
people believe what they believed while here on earth. Then another thousand years talking to great teachers.
Can you emagine what it would be like to sit with Paul and chat about what he went through.To find out what
really went through the mind of Judas when he betrayed Jesus. Oh my goodness! I hope that we don't learn too fast. I want to
spend eternity continuing to learn. ;D ;D
Tim
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Hi Sorin,
Just the fact that you're here on this forum and opening your heart to all of us, speaks volumes. A broken heart and a contrite spirit, thou will not despise. Remember when David was running from Saul and he wound up in some cave all alone. Well, word got out about it and every misfit in the land came to him and joined him. From those misfits came the greatest kingdom Israel and Judah have ever known. So many of us, maybe all, have been or are still in the same boat as you, so much so, that you would'nt believe it. Doubts, anxieties, confusion, fears and darkness and any other fraility that I have missed, are a part of all of us. We talked alot lately about the God of the OT verses the God of the NT, well in the NT we are no longer fighting the physical inhabitants of the land . Paul did'nt write, for we wrestle not against the Jebusites or the Hittites or the Amorites or the Perizzites; but we wrestle against principalities against powers against the rulers of the darkness of this world; against spiritual wickeness in high places There is a spiritual war going on in every one us.....Satan is in our flesh and God is in our spirit and both want our hearts and minds...our soul. Sorin, God has already won, we just don't realize it yet....but we will!!!!
God be with you and all of us misfits,
Dwight,
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I remember being a kid and wondering about the "afterlife" or whatever label you want to give it. I was taught that it would be paradise, nirvana, all that good stuff. Why wouldn't it be? God made it. Christ is in charge. How awesome?
Who would be there? All the good Christians. Now I know EVERYONE will be there eventually. I'm cool with that. Will we all recognize each other? Will I know I'm looking at my grandparents? My wife? My kids? Will we care who each other is? Will we be able to fly around the universe and explore the beauty that God has created? I hope so!
Does anyone here know of any Biblical examples or answers on this? Just wondering...just like when I was a kid.
M@tt
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Hey there Sorin!
I was so glad to read you post, it means that I am not alone in my struggles!
Honesty is something that I appreciate the more as I get older, it help others in their struggles too!
I hate it when people put on make up for the camera, it might look nice but it makes the rest of us feel worse about ourselves.
To quote an old Beatles song, "It's a fool who play it cool by making this world a little colder"
Don't worry Sorin it will pass!
my problem is if I overcome, I don't really want to rule and have responsability, I just want to continue to write music and have fun drinking beer and jamming with my buddies, but it's only in this life where school is the best years of your life!
1Co 13:9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
1Co 13:10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
1Co 13:11 When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
1Co 13:12 For now we see in a mirror dimly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
God adores you Sorin, you are the apple of His eye!
Ps. I wish there was a spell check!
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MM,
PM one of the admins or moderators. I am a member of another forum with this software and there is spell check at the bottom of the page. Ask if we can get spell check, I know it would help me sometimes.
Sincerely,
Anne C. McGuire
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Hi Captain,
Good to see your first post :)
That is an interesting concept you have there,
can't say I've ever thought of it that way :-[
Hi Marty,
I keep my dictionary close at hand :)
And you know I don't think will we have any responsibilities that we do not desire and enjoy doing to serve with Christ. Whether we will think of the responsibilty differently or have only the kind that we have natural abilities in, I don't know. But I believe what ever we are doing there in no way will be something we dislike. As Christ was given all power and authority in heaven and earth, I think we will have great power over the physical things and the spiritual realm as well. I would think that the judging of people and angels will be a joy to bring these being to the knowledge of the truth.
Maybe the way it will be, is that you will be sent to those you have something in common with, and you can relate to them and they to you?
Well just some thoughts :)
mercy, peace, and love
Kat
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This is my first post, although I have been a lurker for some time now! Enjoying your loving and poignant words that continue to move me. Well, Jesus did say there would be no marriage in the resurrection, but, he never said we wouldn't have loves, companions, families and friends. I don't think God would show us such immense love for others, if it was not to continue and grow.
Your friend in Christ,
Lisa
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I'm looking forward to having my own mansion, oh wait, I'll have a room God mansion! ;) ;D
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Lisa,
Welcome to the forum. Look forward to getting to know you more and reading your posts. Get comfortable and get ready to enjoy the oasis of the desert.
Sincerely,
Anne C. McGuire
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This is my first post, although I have been a lurker for some time now! Enjoying your loving and poignant words that continue to move me. Well, Jesus did say there would be no marriage in the resurrection, but, he never said we wouldn't have loves, companions, families and friends. I don't think God would show us such immense love for others, if it was not to continue and grow.
Your friend in Christ,
Lisa
Welcome to the forum Lisa,
Yes you do make a good point, but, what about 'the love' between a husband and wife? Seems like that will be lacking in the 'afterlife'. But I digress, I don't think looking at this from our perspective, and with our understanding does any good. For who has known the mind of God? Are not his ways past finding out? Rom 11:33-34
As unimaginable as it is for me right now, I think all we can do is believe that God has something even better in store for us. Something that we can't even imagine, for no eye has seen, or ear has heard.... neighter entered into the heart of men the things which God hath prepared for them that love him. I Cor 2:9
Take care,
Sorin
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Sorin,
There was a line in a movie once that was close to this, 'What?, I’m just saying what you all are thinking' :) and this subject is exactly that for me, I’ve thought about it plenty times. Surely God has something better in store for us if marriage or one of the ordained benefits you may be referring to, uh, (SEX) will not be replaced. Guess we'll just have to wait and see what that might be ;D.
Peace,
John
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rj,
Thanks for sharing and well put. Our God is awesome! Therefore, knowing this, whatever awaits us in His Kingdom is awesome too!
Peace and His grace to all of you.
Rene'
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Hi Sorin,
You are not alone!!! ;D
I find comfort in these scriptures...
Isaiah 65:21-25
21 And they shall build houses, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and eat the fruit
of them.
22 They shall not build, and another inhabit; they shall not plant, and another eat: for as the days
of a tree are the days of my people, and mine elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands.
23 They shall not labor in vain, nor bring forth for trouble; for they are the seed of the blessed of
the Lord, and their offspring with them.
24 And it shall come to pass, that before they call, I will answer; and while they are yet speaking,
I will hear.
25 The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust
shall be the serpent's meat. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith the
Lord.
I hope this helps a little bit.
Iris
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Hi All,
It's true that there is no marrying or given in marraige, but who says there isn't a Marraige. "And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared for a bride adorned for her husband.." "......saying, come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife." "And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely." Rev. 21:2, 9, Rev. 22:17. There will be a wedding, it just won't be like we think. Praise God, we will all get married again, only this time it will be with the Lamb of God. Tell me if that isn't better?
In Him,
Dwight
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Hi All,
It's true that there is no marrying or given in marraige, but who says there isn't a Marraige. "And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared for a bride adorned for her husband.." "......saying, come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife." "And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely." Rev. 21:2, 9, Rev. 22:17. There will be a wedding, it just won't be like we think. Praise God, we will all get married again, only this time it will be with the Lamb of God. Tell me if that isn't better?
In Him,
Dwight
Hi Dwight,
That's a analogy, we're not literaly going to be married to The Lamb, for homosexuality is a sin. ;)
But I do know what Scripture means by that. Only that's not the type of 'marriage' I was talking about. And honestly, no, I can't say that that's better.
But as I said in my previous post, God does promise something that we can't even imagine, something that's unfathomable and none of us will be able to 'think of, come up with, imagine' what God promises for those who 'Love Him'. So we'll have to wait and see.
Maybe we'll no longer even need to eat and drink since we'll be given a 'Spiritual Body' that doesn't need mana to survive and besides, we'll be immortal. I mean it is interesting to think about, but it'll be something none of us expected... I think.
Take care,
Sorin
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1 Corinthians 2:14 says - But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
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1 Corinthians 2:14 says - But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
What exactly is your point here, Bradigans? Who are you talking to? Please speak directly and clearly.
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Well folks,
i think we covered enough on this subject, time to move on
Thanks
Chris R