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=> General Discussions => Topic started by: Nelson Boils on May 05, 2015, 01:42:04 PM
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I heard Ray ask a similar question to those who were present at a conference he was speaking at.Can't remember which conference it was,but I heard him ask this question on an audio.I would like to ask the same or similar question to those who were present at the conference and those who have been in the truth from 2007(especially moderators,if they don't mind.If you've been here before 2007 it would be great to hear from you) till now.I'm sure alot has changed since then,provided you've been doing the will of God.Something has to have changed of course.Alright here's the question:
Write a couple of things that you have done or gone through that should grant you a place in the Kingdom?Of course the road is not yet done,but I'm interested to hear what has changed since the conference,even to those who were not at the conference but have had the truth for a minute(long time).It would be good to hear something that is unheard of,than the usuals, like:
No friends,I'm lonely,i'm more loving and kinder,i quit smoking or struggle to quit smoking,I spend more time reading the Scriptures,I don't have a job,I help out with financing bible-truths.com,I don't watch certain TV shows anymore,I unfellowshiped my church and friends.
I'm not trying to belittle these above trials,but there has to be something MORE to this walk in order to make the team.Like I said,it will be good to hear a story that would inspire us,and make us go,"Whoa!!You went through all that,and you still have your heart set on making the team?Brilliant!"
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Friend, since you are new here, I will be as gentle as a cooing dove.
Your question is a great error.
There is nothing we can do that will grant us the gift of everlasting life.
Everlasting life is a gift from God by His grace.
Even His Elect who will be in the 1st Resurrection had nothing to do with their gift. The Elect were selected by God, in advance, before they were born, even before creation.
Everything is given to us by God.
You need to read the New Testament. Especially the Books of Romans and Galatians by Paul. But most importantly, pray to God for His Spirit, which is the only way to receive understanding of the things of God.
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Even His Elect who will be in the 1st Resurrection had nothing to do with their gift. The Elect were selected by God, in advance, before they were born, even before creation.
Everything is given to us by God.
Thanks for that reply John; This has been a theme that I was meditating on the last several days and it leaves me feeling puny and insignificant. We have to remember that we are all flesh and that is all that we bring to the table. And we all start out as carnal flesh too boot!!
Christ said that he could do nothing apart from the Father directing him. [Jhn 5:9] And then he said that he is the vine and we are the branches and apart from him [Christ] we can do nothing. [Jhn 15:5] He is the potter and we are the clay. The potter makes every vessel in the way that pleases him. Those for honor and those for dishonor. [Jer 18:4-6] All is of God!!
I reflect on the attitude of the saints in Revelation. In Rev 4 they cast down their crowns before his throne. Why? They state in verse 11;
Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.
They realize that in and of themselves they are totally unworthy to wear those crowns. Everything that they did was inspired and caused by God. He selects a few vessels of honor now in this lifetime. And the rest follow in the ages to come. It has nothing to do with the individual but everything to do with the purpose and plan of God for the individual. When we realize that there is nothing good in and of ourselves to even be able to make us worthy of being one of the very elect it should humble us immensely. And it gives me great security as well. Obviously if any are of the very elect there are things that we will do and have done in us and through us in this lifetime but it's all of God. That has been one of the most difficult lessons for me to learn. When I keep trying in my flesh to do the right things I fail miserably.
To get back to the original question of what things could I write down that should grant me the prize of immortality? For me nothing....absolutely nothing. All is of God and I'm so glad it doesn't depend on me.
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You can do nothing. The problem is thinking you can do something.
Rhys
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Oh yeah I found the audio.Its titled 'INHERITTHEKINGDOM'.You may fast forward it to the 26th minute to hear the question that Ray asked.Anyway here is the question Ray asked:
Write down three things that you are doing or have done that should qualify you in God's Kingdom?To which one responds,"nothing."Then Ray says,"You got a long way to go fella."
So I guess you got a long way to go Arion.
Actually thought I would hear some testimonies from those who've had the truth for a minute.
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http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,10844.0.html The entire conference.
http://bible-truths.com/audio/INHERITTHEKINGDOM.mp3 The section under consideration.
The question Ray asked was: write down three things that would qualify you for the Kingdom. Let's not argue over the question, but 'pretend' we were there and do it.
Now, he didn't ask anybody to come up and read their answers, so I hope Nelson didn't intend to put pressure on 'us' to post ours. But it's definitely worth thinking on.
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So I guess you got a long way to go Arion.
Actually thought I would hear some testimonies from those who've had the truth for a minute.
If you would of read what I said a little closer instead of rushing through my comments you might have noticed this;
Obviously if any are of the very elect there are things that we will do and have done in us and through us in this lifetime but it's all of God.
Ray would not of been in disagreement with that. The thing is are our works of us or of God? If they are of God then we have no room to boast. I do not deny that I have a lot to learn. You might discover in your walk when you see the beast within yourself that you also have a lot left to learn.
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These may disappoint anybody looking for great signs and wonders, but here goes.
First and foremost, I understand what the NAME of Jesus means and I believe on His name. I believe on it not just for myself, but for every person who's ever lived and ever will. So far I've not lost the faith.
As a corollary, I've learned in some measure just what Paul meant by "we are saved by grace, through faith" and, though I'm far from perfect, I've experienced this truth.
I have "come out of her" and "been cast out of the synagogue" on many occasions and in many ways.
Though I can't say I have been personally hated by all men, I've been hated by some who should know better and by more than one 'type' of man. Much of this happened before I knew how important it was. I've learned not to be surprised when it happens, but to rejoice. "Considering my own self" and all that means keeps me from being too prideful on these occasions.
I can't 'glory' in any of the above...and not just because I'm very much a 'work in progress' and not a shining example of discipleship and a clean conscience. "The Faith" was a "gift of God" beyond any shadow of misunderstanding to any who know how it came about, and more importantly by ME. And that's what started all of this.
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I was at that 2009 Conference and heard what Ray said. I listened again to the 2nd clip that Dave attached.
Towards the end of the clip Ray stated that it was God who would give us the victory.
What more can be said? If God gives us the victory, then it's not us but God. Therefore, we should give all the credit to God.
We have been asked to give "testimonies". That's a very Christian sounding word. I cannot give a "testimony" because I am not a Christian. Neither was Jesus. The very thought of giving a "testimony" gives me the spiritual dry heaves. I walked away from all that stuff years ago. Not going back.
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I was at that 2009 Conference and heard what Ray said. I listened again to the 2nd clip that Dave attached.
Towards the end of the clip Ray stated that it was God who would give us the victory.
What more can be said? If God gives us the victory, then it's not us but God. Therefore, we should give all the credit to God.
We have been asked to give "testimonies". That's a very Christian sounding word. I cannot give a "testimony" because I am not a Christian. Neither was Jesus. The very thought of giving a "testimony" gives me the spiritual dry heaves. I walked away from all that stuff years ago. Not going back.
;D
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Thanks for sharing Dave.
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I'm not so concerned with 'making the team' since learning the truth. Some (many) will be compiling resumes a hell of a lot more impressive than mine and yet Christ will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you'.
So if having an outstanding resume is what qualifies us then I may very well be screwed! Lol! After all I've never cast out a demon or preformed any miracles.. That's ok though. I've come to accept the fact that I may have to burn for a bit before entering His Kingdom.. And if I do find myself in the fire after I'm raised from the first death then I will at least know it's for a good purpose and at the hands of a loving father who is perfecting me. But when all is accomplished we will ALL be in the Kingdom and we'll all be on the same 'team'.
Matt 7:22
22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’
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Hi Nelson. There is nothing we do, it is all of God through Christ Jesus.
1Co 1:26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:
1Co 1:27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;
1Co 1:28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:
God has Chosen!
And if i get to sure of my self I always remember,
7 For who maketh thee to differ from another? and what hast thou that thou didst not receive? now if thou didst receive it, why dost thou glory, as if thou hadst not received it?
1Co 10:12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall
Nelson I think that audio that your talking about has all this in there as well!
R.P.J
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At least you are hated,Dave,it's a good sign that you are MAKING the team,you are BEING counted worthy for the kingdom.Reminds me of the apostles when they rejoiced over their persecution.I've not YET been put in a situation where I'm hated by all men or one type of man for doing right.I get a couple Christians who just think i'm lost with my new found knowledge,they just disagree with me,but I wouldn't say they hate me.Guess I got a long way to go.But,when I read Ray's e-mails,I tend to think these detractors really really hate Ray.Some stuff they say to him is unbelievable.
Have to say though,that audio of Ray stings hey?The question he asks really makes one think about doing the right things.Even that audio(Yetcarnal) where he tells the audience they don't contribute financially to a course that has changed their lives, stings too.
Thanks for that bit of testomony Dave.
If there is no persecution,no hatred from outsiders for doing the right things,it's clear that one is not making the team or playing according to the rules.
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Ok Nelson, maybe I misunderstood your question. Heres your question,
Write a couple of things that you have done or gone through that should grant you a place in the Kingdom?Of course the road is not yet done,but I'm interested to hear what has changed since the conference,even to those who were not at the conference but have had the truth for a minute(long time).It would be good to hear something that is unheard of,than the usuals, like:
Ok let me say this, I have been accountable and have judged my self on all kinds of matters. Before conversion I was not able to do this, I was as carnal as anybody else and the carnal mind is not subject to the law of God neither indeed can be. It is Jesus who now holds me accountable and I judge myself. I haven't done anything that God should grant me a place in His Kingdom. It is Jesus that does a work in me that causes me to become a overcomer, it is His work not mine that will grant me a place in His Kingdom. Sure all kinds hate me for my beliefs and I have been persecuted by those I thought were real close to me because of what I now believe, but still this is the work of Jesus in my life. To write a couple things I have done or gone through that would grant me a place in His kingdom, well Nelson, Jesus holds me accountable and I judge myself. Thats all I do,
Judge myself...
R.P.J :D
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Nelson. you are correct in saying that sessions 'stings'. It took me quite a while to actually listen to it, and quite a while longer to 'incorporate it'. I'm not sure I fully have, even yet.
But it's not all 'hard news'.
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This is my first post on the forum... I must say that I am thrilled and humbled to read the words of people in whom I can see God's spirit working so clearly. Ya'll don't even "argue" like the people I see in the darkness of the pews in congregations I've attended. You discuss disagreements as if there is a TRUTH and not an agenda or an ego at stake. In this short discussion I have learned more about the heart of God than in years of sitting in church... I can see it on display from God though you. This is the wonder of assembling together even if it is at a distance.
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This is my first post on the forum... I must say that I am thrilled and humbled to read the words of people in whom I can see God's spirit working so clearly. Ya'll don't even "argue" like the people I see in the darkness of the pews in congregations I've attended. You discuss disagreements as if there is a TRUTH and not an agenda or an ego at stake. In this short discussion I have learned more about the heart of God than in years of sitting in church... I can see it on display from God though you. This is the wonder of assembling together even if it is at a distance.
Welcome to the forum sirapyendor and thank you for sharing your kind observations of our little fellowship group. :)
René
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This is my first post on the forum... I must say that I am thrilled and humbled to read the words of people in whom I can see God's spirit working so clearly. Ya'll don't even "argue" like the people I see in the darkness of the pews in congregations I've attended. You discuss disagreements as if there is a TRUTH and not an agenda or an ego at stake. In this short discussion I have learned more about the heart of God than in years of sitting in church... I can see it on display from God though you. This is the wonder of assembling together even if it is at a distance.
Welcome to the church of the Living God were class is always in session! ;) ;D
Ditto to Rene's comment.
In Christ,
Alex
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Michael G
Listen to the audio that Dave linked and you'll hear the original question from the horses mouth.The actual question that i wanted to pose was asked by Ray.
"Write down three things which you've done or are doing that should qualify you for the kingdom of God?"
Hey Dave,just rembered.I had a pastor who was 18yrs old threaten me once.I had argued him about this tithe issue,and I was enraged because most of his audience were grandmother's who were poor.He would ask for tithe and offering everyday,man,that boy made me angry.Now that got me in trouble.It happened before I read Ray's material though,of which I had already known about the tithe scam.I went to him for 3 days in a row,until he finally gave in and said:"My man,I don't know who you are or what you are trying to do,but i've already told a couple of pastors about you and we've been watching you for some time.So if you ever set foot again in this church(Universal),i'm afraid we gona do something to you."I couldn't believe it,I stormed out the church fuming and never came back.
What is weird though,is that,in the beginning I thought I was getting through to him.He was kind and even complimented me on how I knew what I knew.Well,come day 3,i'm being threatened.This was 3 years ago.
You're right.The audio is not all hard news,Ray does speak about the positive side as well.
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Michael G
Listen to the audio that Dave linked and you'll hear the original question from the horses mouth.The actual question that i wanted to pose was asked by Ray.
"Write down three things which you've done or are doing that should qualify you for the kingdom of God?"
Hey Dave,just rembered.I had a pastor who was 18yrs old threaten me once.I had argued him about this tithe issue,and I was enraged because most of his audience were grandmother's who were poor.He would ask for tithe and offering everyday,man,that boy made me angry.Now that got me in trouble.It happened before I read Ray's material though,of which I had already known about the tithe scam.I went to him for 3 days in a row,until he finally gave in and said:"My man,I don't know who you are or what you are trying to do,but i've already told a couple of pastors about you and we've been watching you for some time.So if you ever set foot again in this church(Universal),i'm afraid we gona do something to you."I couldn't believe it,I stormed out the church fuming and never came back.
What is weird though,is that,in the beginning I thought I was getting through to him.He was kind and even complimented me on how I knew what I knew.Well,come day 3,i'm being threatened.This was 3 years ago.
You're right.The audio is not all hard news,Ray does speak about the positive side as well.
Ok Nelson, why don't you share your answer to that very question?
:D
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I was at that 2009 Conference and heard what Ray said. I listened again to the 2nd clip that Dave attached.
Towards the end of the clip Ray stated that it was God who would give us the victory.
What more can be said? If God gives us the victory, then it's not us but God. Therefore, we should give all the credit to God.
We have been asked to give "testimonies". That's a very Christian sounding word. I cannot give a "testimony" because I am not a Christian. Neither was Jesus. The very thought of giving a "testimony" gives me the spiritual dry heaves. I walked away from all that stuff years ago. Not going back.
Hi John, I wasn't at the conference but I think I said the same as what your saying....
Its Gods work, not Mikes work and thank God for that....
Ok Nelson, maybe I misunderstood your question. Heres your question,
Write a couple of things that you have done or gone through that should grant you a place in the Kingdom?Of course the road is not yet done,but I'm interested to hear what has changed since the conference,even to those who were not at the conference but have had the truth for a minute(long time).It would be good to hear something that is unheard of,than the usuals, like:
Ok let me say this, I have been accountable and have judged my self on all kinds of matters. Before conversion I was not able to do this, I was as carnal as anybody else and the carnal mind is not subject to the law of God neither indeed can be. It is Jesus who now holds me accountable and I judge myself. I haven't done anything that God should grant me a place in His Kingdom. It is Jesus that does a work in me that causes me to become a overcomer, it is His work not mine that will grant me a place in His Kingdom. Sure all kinds hate me for my beliefs and I have been persecuted by those I thought were real close to me because of what I now believe, but still this is the work of Jesus in my life. To write a couple things I have done or gone through that would grant me a place in His kingdom, well Nelson, Jesus holds me accountable and I judge myself. Thats all I do,
Judge myself...
R.P.J :D
Its Gods work , not Mikes and thank God for that. John I don't think he gives us the victory, but he makes us overcomers! Any how thats how Mike sees it from Lray teachings.
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No problem Michael Gackson. :D
1. stopped stealing.
2.Unfellowshiped my old church and left a lot of my friends behind.Don't have any friends now.I left them all.Every single one of them.
Well I can only think of those two for now,and of course u may read my last post as to what I went through at the church of universal where I was threatened by some 18 yr old kid.That's what the truth made me go through.
So yeah,that is what the grace of God has done for me thus far.So,like Dave,not too many great wonders or signs on my side either.Still got a long way to go.
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Who here is still in touch with Amelia from mexico?Wonder how she is doing with her work that she started.I ran into some post of hers.Judging by what I read from some of her work,that woman really is laying down her life.Now her story is inspiring.
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No problem Michael Gackson. :D
1. stopped stealing.
2.Unfellowshiped my old church and left a lot of my friends behind.Don't have any friends now.I left them all.Every single one of them.
Well I can only think of those two for now,and of course u may read my last post as to what I went through at the church of universal where I was threatened by some 18 yr old kid.That's what the truth made me go through.
So yeah,that is what the grace of God has done for me thus far.So,like Dave,not too many great wonders or signs on my side either.Still got a long way to go.
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Who here is still in touch with Amelia from mexico?Wonder how she is doing with her work that she started.I ran into some post of hers.Judging by what I read from some of her work,that woman really is laying down her life.Now her story is inspiring.
No Problem Michael Gackson? Funny when I talk like that I am held accountable right away! How about you Nelson, when you talk foolishness like that are you held
accountable? Nelson did you really stop stealing on your own! Did you just decide one day that you would leave your church and stop fellowshipping with those friends? You see Nelson I lived a life time of drug addictions, stealing and violence and in and out of jails and now that I no longer do that it wasn't me that stopped all that, but the work Jesus has done in my life that has caused me to overcome those things was not my doing but His. I didn't decide one day to leave my church, no Jesus called me out of that church or I would still be in it. No Nelson I don't get credit for anything, its all Jesus. I don't think differently on my own, no he teaches me to think differently. How could I a carnal man do any of this all on my own, my carnal mind hates God and wants nothing to do with Him. No Nelson its all Jesus, not me....
In Christ Mike
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I honestly don't think ray meant for us to talk about these sorts of things out loud because it borders on boasting (works of the flesh) and stinks of vanity.
It reminds me of the pharisees and what Christ said of them;
"Therefore when you do your alms, do not SOUND A TRUMPET before you, as the hypocrites do in the SYNAGOGUES and in the STREETS, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward" But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth: That thine ALMS may be in secret: and thy Father which seeth in secret himself shall reward thee openly. (Matt 6:2-4)
Our ALMS (Giving of money to the poor or food--GOOD WORKS!) are to be done in SECRET. For what have you that you did not receive? Consider also these words of paul which are very well suited for this thread.
1 Cor 4:7 "For who maketh thee to differ from another? and what hast thou that thou didst not receive? now if thou didst receive it, why dost thou glory, as if thou hadst not received it?"
Ray's words were meant more as a personal challenge to search yourself and really find out where you fall in the grander scheme of things if God willed for you to do such searching. It was an admonishment not to be complacent in your walk much as the apostles urged the church to be zealous of good works but certainly never to boast of them. At least that's how I understood it. Yes, we should be zealous of good works and provoke one another to those good works but not by boasting of what we have done or even what God has done in our lives UNLESS someone asks us and it serves a good purpose (I.E. encourging another, teaching another, rebuking another). Even then you don't always have to answer a question because sometimes you ought not answer a fool according to his folly.
This is important! Listen!
Proverbs 27:2 "Let another man praise thee, and not thine own mouth; a stranger, and not thine own lips."
2 Corinthians 10:18 "For it is not the one who commends himself who is approved, but the one whom the Lord commends."
This goes hand in hand with what Christ said. Do your ALMS (good works) IN SECRET and GOD will reward you openly. If SOMEONE ELSE praises you then fine but don't let it be your own lips doing the praising. That's carnal.
I believe hebrews 10 answers the question of how we are to provoke one another to good works without boasting of our own works.
Hebrews 10:23-25
Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised;)
And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:
Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.
Our higher assembling (EPISINAGOGUE 2 Thes 2:1 / "Raised us up to heavenly places in Christ" Eph 2:6) and exhorting one another. Encouraging each other can be done through many ways but I don't see it as boasting about what we have done that makes us worthy of the prize. As has been stated, we can of ourselves do nothing. Christ is the vine and we are the branches. For it is God which works in us both to will and to do of His good pleasure.
Indeed, let us all pretend we were there and reflect on the question IN SECRET. This is how I understand these things. Feel free to agree or disagree.
God bless,
Alex
P.S. If you need prayer because you're going through some tribulations and trials then by all means please do ask!
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Hi Michael,
Peace between you and Alex.
I do not believe his comments were aimed at you, but at the original question posed in this thread.
Have a good evening.
John
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Ok John I see what your saying and I will remove, But we should also keep in mind if we are saying something we should also do what we are saying!
Sorry Alex for the misunderstanding.
Have a good night as well.
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John is correct. In fact, I did not even have you in mind Micheal when I made my post. It was directed to the original post and the title of this thread. If anyone was to be addressed it was only in admonishment and encouragement but not strife.
Peace indeed. Peace in the church of God.
God Bless,
Alex
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John is correct. In fact, I did not even have you in mind Micheal when I made my post. It was directed to the original post and the title of this thread. If anyone was to be addressed it was only in admonishment and encouragement but not strife.
Peace indeed. Peace in the church of God.
God Bless,
Alex
Sorry again Alex and Amen
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Great stuff Michael.You've left your life of violence and drugs.That's good what the grace of God has done in your life.
Thanx for that testimony man.
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I have enjoyed this thread so far. It is irrefutable it is Christ in us who does the works. But if we have no works that we can point too, is He doing any works in us? And if He is not, are we actually His? Do we belong to Him?
I am not saying it needs to be anything public and amazing that causes men to honor us.
In our own private thoughts and minds, surely we if we are chosen, we can point to something that is of God causing us to die to carnality and live to Him.
This is part of judging ourselves, I would think
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In our own private thoughts and minds, surely we if we are chosen, we can point to something that is of God causing us to die to carnality and live to Him.
Perhaps any change in us would be so insidious that one may not be able to point to anything until years later when they can look backwards and realize they no longer are the same in respect to sinful likings.
But then again I once heard that when one sees themselves as humble they are no longer humble.
Which is the wiser thing to do? To look for a change within oneself or to trust in Christ ?
One can trust in their assumed change but trusting in Christ is a sure thing.