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=> General Discussions => Topic started by: Pierdut on October 16, 2013, 12:24:48 AM
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I don't know how much longer I can go on like this. Why does God hate me so much? After all, did He not create me? Why would God create something He hates? I never asked to be born; now I'm just looking to find a way out. I just can't win; I try and try and things just constantly go wrong in my life - I can't catch a break. My life consists of seeing other people have what I never will - I will never be happy, neither in this life nor the next (if such exists, and I hope it doesn't). You can't comprehend the misery I feel, the hopelessnes, and the rage.
I tried coming to God for help, but that too was in vain. Either He doesn't exist, or He doesn't care, and just hates me, and therefore gets pleasure out of my suffering.
There is no worse feeling than trying and trying, and giving it all you got only to fail time and time again. It's as if some mysterious force was working against me not letting me succeed in life. So what can I do? What's the point of laboring 10 hours a day 5 days a week, and then putting in 6-7 hours on Saturday when it's all for nothing? Really what is the point?
I don't care if you laugh; saying "what a loser" or whatever. It is not for lack of trying - I am not lazy, I am just cursed. Something won't let me succeed, and it is beyond my ability to do something about. So what am I supposed to do? I've prayed, I've tried to repent, and it all just seems like it was in vain.
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Sad to hear what you are going through. Suffering is a part of this life and who likes that. Why do some get it worse than others? I'm not sure myself but I know God is at work. Look at what Paul went through......terrible but he knew of the hope in Christ he had.
God doesn't hate you. You wouldn't be posting on here if he did.
I'm sure no one is going to laugh at you on here. If they do that they don't belong here and are not part of us.
If we don't succeed as we see success it is still of God. He has something great in mind for you so keep going and don't give up.
Hope this passage is of help to you:
Heb 12:6 For the Lord disciplines the one he loves, and chastises every son whom he receives."
Heb 12:7 It is for discipline that you have to endure. God is treating you as sons. For what son is there whom his father does not discipline?
Heb 12:8 If you are left without discipline, in which all have participated, then you are illegitimate children and not sons.
Heb 12:9 Besides this, we have had earthly fathers who disciplined us and we respected them. Shall we not much more be subject to the Father of spirits and live?
Heb 12:10 For they disciplined us for a short time as it seemed best to them, but he disciplines us for our good, that we may share his holiness.
Heb 12:11 For the moment all discipline seems painful rather than pleasant, but later it yields the peaceful fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it.
Also encourage you to read this one from Ray's email early last year from someone going through a hard time. Bit long to put here:
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,14047.msg123886.html#msg123886 (http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,14047.msg123886.html#msg123886)
I'm praying for you.
Rhys
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Hi Rhys,
I hope you are right, and I appreciate your response and prayer. I can identify with that Canadian reader on many things but for different reasons. I also read your intro and that was quite something - I've never experienced anything like that, and don't think I want to, but I'm glad that it's over and done with for you.
I wish God would answer me...
I'll try again now to get some sleep as I have to be up early tomorrow.
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And trials and hardship continues even though I don't suffer from those attacks anymore.
If God hates you it's only because your sins are of such a level to be so:
As Ray says in his paper: http://bible-truths.com/WhyGodLovesYou.htm (http://bible-truths.com/WhyGodLovesYou.htm)
However, when sinning becomes a way of life, and the sins are of a certain magnitude and grossness, God hates the sinner as well as his sins.
But even for those people God commends His love towards them and will save them to in His time.
I don't believe that type of sinner is you or me, yes we sin but we long to get out of it and we bring it to Him. God knows what we can handle and how much heat we need.
That whole paper is good so read that one when you can or bit at a time. I would just be quoting from it if I continue because what I feel is covered in there.
Also don't be concerned about what others have. I've been like that most of my life and feeling I've done something wrong to be suffering in the ways I have and thinking if I only had this and was more like that person. It will make you sick if you continue, maybe not physically but in your mind. This life is more than what we see. People who think they have it all and are happy and content in this life will one day realise they missed it all. There security is in the foolishness of man and they trust in the things of this life. Been there and done that and God will bring you to your knees and then you will realise what life is and how glorious it is because it's found in Him. That's where your life is. How much do we have to go through to see that? That's up to God. He brought me out of the pit I was in and there is great joy in that. Without being in the pit I would not know of it. Sometimes God's ways seem strange and unfair but that is in our limited wisdom. God's wisdom far exceeds and I've been through enough to see that. Don't worry about the person who has a million dollars with all the flash stuff and the happy perfect family. It's not where the true life is and the more I discover of it the more I realise I don't want all that stuff. Give me the life in Him and more of it whatever the cost because every penny is worth it and what God will give will far exceed what you paid. He paid the ultimate price and let's not forget that. You will one day feel like I do with feelings of I don't think I paid enough Lord for this life I have now. Thank God for His grace and thank God again for it.
God bless you on your journey as that is what you are on, yes unpleasant and hard at this time but one day it won't be. God will see to it. I've experienced that love you can't put into words and God truly is awesome. Remember you are unique to Him. One of a kind are you and me. From the same paper I like how Ray puts it:
Yes, you were "for-known" before you were ever born
God's family, God's plan, God's universe would not be complete without YOU! No one can take your place. There is one of you and there will always only be one of you. You need to think about this and meditate on it. Too many people feel that their life is of little if any value. That's not true, you are so incredibly important to God that Jesus Christ voluntarily laid down His life on the cross, not because your sins had some power over God's life; not to pay some divine debt that you owed God, not to appease the wrath of God, not because He had to die for you, but because GOD LOVES YOU, and He would do anything to prove His eternal love and devotion for HIS FAMILY AND CHILDREN, of whom you are totally unique.
I love that bit from Ray it does something in my spirit
Rhys
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I love that bit from Ray it does something in my spirit
that bit ray wrote does something in my spirit too rhys. it gives hope and joy to me. btw, your entire post reply to pierdut was full of wisdom and love. spot on brother kiwi. 8)
claudia
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Peirdut,
Brother I have felt the same way as you. Angry with God because my life seems so difficult. Then I think of all the people who have it worse than me, then I thank God for what I do have. I know it seems rough at times, but it will be better. The trials and tribulations will lessen, and you will see Gods plan coming to light in your life. His love will shine through.
I know how hard it can be. My wife left me three years ago, three months ago my dad had a stroke, and a month later my mother died. Being broken hearted is a difficult thing to overcome, but I know it is all a part of Gods plan. I thank God that he let me have a wife, because of my children He has blessed me with. I thank God for letting me have parents who love/loved me dearly. It was and still is a difficult thing to go through for anyone, but I know it is a part of Gods plan in this life to make me His son.
Brother I don't want you to feel bad for me, but to rejoice in what you do have, Gods love for you. I also pray God helps you through thes trials and tribulations.
My love to you, through Christ,
Greg
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When I start to feel sorry for myself I don't have to look any further than what Ray went through with grace and dignity even though he was in severe and constant pain. When I look at how he was tested I think I've got it pretty good. Many of us here can trade war stories with you blow for blow. Why do some endure and others fold? It's certainly not because of anything we've accomplished on our own that I know. Whether you realize it or not what you are presently enduring will bear fruit eventually even though you can't see it now.
Work your way through the lake of fire series again or for the first time if you've never read it. You will learn a lot about yourself, about God and why things are the way they are in this lifetime. Eventually you will be able to 'look behind' you and see that God was with you every step of the way even though you can't perceive it now.
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Many here will give you a syrupy false love, kissy, kissy. May God give you a swift kick in the butt and bring you to repentance and let you see yourself as you are.
Since I was the one who posted on this the most and not many have said to much it seems you above comment is directed towards me. If you have a problem with the way I respond then send me a pm about it. When I post posts like that I spend time praying, in the word and reading Ray's articles and his email responses and it takes me a lot of time. It's not something I take lightly. I'm not a harsh person but can be when I need to be like Ray was at times but he also had compassion and love to people he replied too. What helped me the most when I was down in my life was being offered love and not judging and putting others down. Just my opinion for what it's worth. I can't believe people here cannot see that God's love can change things instead they want to take the situation into there own hands and do it there way.
Rhys
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Pieirdut,
It is very difficult to put into words how I feel for you. Your first post really touched me deeply.
All I can say is that I know from my heart that God loves you and will take care of you.
Do not despair, my brother, even though it is an old expression, behind every cloud there is a silver lining.
Praying for you.
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But I could easily come to hate you.
Many here will give you a syrupy false love, kissy, kissy. May God give you a swift kick in the butt and bring you to repentance and let you see yourself as you are.
john from kentucky. you assume so much sometimes. pierdut is your brother in Christ, and you state that you could easily come to hate him. if you can "easily" come to "hate" any brother or sister in Christ you are also still carnal minded. the people on this forum who respond with compassion and mercy to those who are feeling lost and hopeless, is out of their love of God and their own Saviour Christ Jesus. and you stand in judgement with your finger pointing and accusatory statements. where is YOUR compassion jfk? where is YOUR mercy?
claudia
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An excellent passage and very true but which one of us is the wolf then. If you wish to claim I am one then go ahead but I'm glad I know who my God is and where it comes from concerning my posts.
As Ray says whenever we pretend to be Christ like and it's all a charade we are guilty but you should make sure who you are pointing the finger at if you wish to judge others here.
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Pierdut,
I posted this on another thread and decided to re-post it here because I think it may help.
I look back over my years as a Christian. I had wonderful teachers. I was never taught rapture and nonsense like that. I was taught that the flesh needed to die, but no-one could ever show me how, probably because they didn't know either. I think very few people actually do. I would beg God, plead, try to bargain, Read my word, chant scriptures trying to convince myself I was more able than I really was. Cloak myself with condemnation. I thought the hard times were a reflection of my own unworthiness and a punishment for fleshly thought and actions. I never knew that the very trials I was lamenting were in fact my answers to prayer that I was seeking. The trials were about me learning to overcome and my lack of understanding and carnal mind never understood. That only comes with a 'rhema' moment when God reveals. Since my moment, I have learnt to come into agreement with these trials and receive them with gladness as well as I can and I have changed more in the last 4 years than my entire previous 35 year walk.
I have repented of judging myself unrighteously and condemning myself. No longer given to self-pity, which isn't really one of the fruits of the spirit. I now know that his word is a lamp unto my feet and a light unto my path....not a hundred steps down the path, but right where my feet are. For my next step. We need to pay more attention to the moment we are in so that we can benefit from it and not be constantly looking ahead so that we don't trip needlessly. If we don't learn the lesson now for today, we will have to go through it again and that's a wasted opportunity. It isn't my choice or your choice what God chooses to deal with each day. You just can't decide how you are going to change. That's not your right. We are just the clay. The purpose comes from the potter. You will sin in other areas, but concentrate on what God is dealing with. he will get to those other areas in his own time. If he's not bent out of shape then you shouldn't be either. Don't intentionally hurt others if you have it in your power not to. There is no excuse for behaving badly, but neither is there any condemnation either.
I hope this helps you all have your 'rhema' moment. be encouraged
God Bless 8)
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evidently john, you believe any and all who show compassion and mercy to those in need on this forum are "religious hobbyists", seeing how that is who ray was speaking about. i do not agree with you on this one john. not at all. we are called to love and forgive others. where is your agape love?
we do not all have the strong-arm type of personality as you john. does that make us weak in your eyes? are we not all made by the same Potter?
claudia
p.s. no worries mods. no more public comments to jfk on this matter.
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i have yell at God in my time too, of the fire " what the hell are you doing" it was silly when i knew what He was doing. the real work is not easy but good
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I don't know how much longer I can go on like this. Why does God hate me so much? After all, did He not create me? Why would God create something He hates? I never asked to be born; now I'm just looking to find a way out. I just can't win; I try and try and things just constantly go wrong in my life - I can't catch a break. My life consists of seeing other people have what I never will - I will never be happy, neither in this life nor the next (if such exists, and I hope it doesn't). You can't comprehend the misery I feel, the hopelessnes, and the rage.
I tried coming to God for help, but that too was in vain. Either He doesn't exist, or He doesn't care, and just hates me, and therefore gets pleasure out of my suffering.
There is no worse feeling than trying and trying, and giving it all you got only to fail time and time again. It's as if some mysterious force was working against me not letting me succeed in life. So what can I do? What's the point of laboring 10 hours a day 5 days a week, and then putting in 6-7 hours on Saturday when it's all for nothing? Really what is the point?
I don't care if you laugh; saying "what a loser" or whatever. It is not for lack of trying - I am not lazy, I am just cursed. Something won't let me succeed, and it is beyond my ability to do something about. So what am I supposed to do? I've prayed, I've tried to repent, and it all just seems like it was in vain.
I don't know why God hates you. I can't speak for Him. But I could easily come to hate you.
Good, then hate me... see if I care.
Listen to yourself. You whine, moan, and complain about how bad things are for you.
Yes, because like I said; I believe God is working against me, not letting me succeed. What can I do against God? I can't take him on.
Million and millions of people alive on this Earth suffer a lot more than you.
Maybe you should hate them too, then; for having the 'gull' to complain about their suffering.
But you don't give others a thought because you are so filled with yourself.
So you're a mind-reader too now? You don't know what's in my head pal to say such a thing.
Be a man. Grow up. You are not the center of the universe.
I am a man. I am grown up. And I never claimed to be 'the center of the universe. ' I just came to the conclusion that God is working against me, and I would like to know why, and what I can do to make it stop.
Have you ate a meal today? Do you have a place to sleep at night? Count your blessings because many do not have what you have.
Like I said in my original post; I work long hours, so yes I have food to eat and a place to sleep, but don't think I've never been without. Just recently I had to sleep in the truck in the same clothes I worked a ten hour shift in then go back to work like that the next day. I had to move out of my apartment due to an infestation... now I rented a room with a stranger just to have a place to sleep, shower, and change.
Find someone or something to give to. Expect nothing back in return. As you have the strength, try to break the cycle of selfishness you are mired in.
I have given to the homeless and the poor. I gave this one homeless man an ashtray full of mostly quarters that I happened to have in my vehicle; he began to tear when he saw how much I gave him because he couldn't believe it. I am not selfish, you are wrong about me; in fact I am very generous and merciful.
Many here will give you a syrupy false love, kissy, kissy. May God give you a swift kick in the butt and bring you to repentance and let you see yourself as you are.
I do see myself as I am; I know quite well what my flaws are and what my sins are, but selfishness isn't one of them. And God's been giving me a lot more than a kick in the butt - you don't know what I've gone through pal... I explained some of it in my introduction thread.
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Pierdut, in our attempt to help you, many of us have perhaps misjudged you and we're sorry. These are the shortcomings of online fellowship - we only know so much about the other. But that is good sometimes, if we really knew the truth about each other our carnal selves would definitely deliver the kiss of death :( It's not hard to see that you are indeed having a rough time and you are questioning WHY? None of us on the forum are strangers to what you are going through. Embarking on life, I set up personal goals for myself; a good education, a good career and a good marriage. Notice the emphasis on good? Well, I did achieve everything, but it was not good! One by one God tore down every thing my carnal self was seeking. It did make me resentful as I was an intelligent and hardworking person, and today my contemporaries are more successful than I. Successful according to the world's standard, not God's and until I saw the difference, or God caused me to see the difference by renewing my mind, I continued to despair.
JfK, I think I understand what you are trying to accomplish. Even I too was worried that Pierdut was at the end of himself and I too felt like shaking him out of it before he did something he regretted. But we must balance our concern with compassion lest we throw the baby out with the bathwater. And I think that the Kiss of Death was an unfair comparison to those who choose to be lead by their heart and their personal experiences.
Rhys, I read your introduction and am moved by your testimony and those of others who share your experience. By comparison, my trials seem light and momentary. And yet you display so much joy and compassion, no one would have guessed how much you’ve travailed. You are all such an inspiration to us on our individual journeys.
God bless you all.
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Rhys, I read your introduction and am moved by your testimony and those of others who share your experience. By comparison, my trials seem light and momentary. And yet you display so much joy and compassion, no one would have guessed how much you’ve travailed. You are all such an inspiration to us on our individual journeys.
Thank you Loretta. I'm encouraged by your posts from your heart too....bless you
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Hi Pierdut
I know EXACTLY the feelings you are expressing. They can get worse!
Quite aside how such deep disturbing emotions may arise, they are so wrenching and debilitating! To say otherwise is unbelievable. To skirt around the horrors capable of deranging the human will to live, is stupid as were those friends of Job, except for Elihu, who did not incur God's disdain. I am right there on the truck with you buddy! Right in the ash and black disheartening terror.
What stood out for me, in your well written account of misery, is your statement that you are cursed. THAT stood out as the linch pin of agony, like the thorn in the side of Paul, without the blessed insights that Paul said he received and could not share with us.
I AM, is part of Gods Name, I AM THAT I AM.
To say I am.....whatever.....is to declare a truth!
To profess, I am cursed, is an enormously bold declaration.
Who among us can discredit or change or elieviate the angst brought on in the wake of such belief?
Try as anyone may, we are not of any power to overthrow such belief and conviction that is presented as part of the evidence you express.
You say you are cursed. Okay. You say it so let it be that this is true for you. No contest. No debate. Your statement is received as true for you!
True for YOU is NOT truth!
I Am The Way, The TRUTH and The Life.
You, Pierdut, are in the meeting place of TRUTH.
Do you curse God in your unawareness that part of the name of God is I Am....have I not said you are God's.
Who is the I Am that speaks Pierdut? Find that I Am...who THAT is, and bring your evidence!
PRESENT I AM. Present TRUTH. Not what is true for you that has no opposition. Experience is not Truth. The truth of how you are evaluating misery is also not Truth. I Am The Way, The TRUTH.....
What is true for HUMAN GRIEF is of no value AS TRUTH! In the tribulations and agony is an experience that leads to the revaluation OF TRUTH. This is The Way, into The Kingdom within you and I and every soul on earth. It is the same Way for all.
I have endured great travail and am infinitely grateful for the aftermath of great angst that fear in the mighty hand of God, delivers to EXPELL ignorance and shallow leanings on futile understanding.
All who have prayed, who have contributed to ease agony, who have written in this Thread, do so because it is meant to be, for and to the wisdom of our Creator I Am That I Am, CREATING IN HIS IMAGE THE YOU THAT YOU ARE ABOVE PAIN YET NOT INDIFFERENT TO ANY WHO SUFFER.
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I dont know about this syrupy stuff anymore this road has now gooooten to be hard ....SO HARD - I expect it to get 7 times harder so we all need to be prepared I think i know how you are feeling now Pierdut I cannot lie though - Powder ..............the "old man will become" and the new will be built - no apologies mate its just a spiritual fact "unless a kernel fall to the ground and die it cannot live" not sure of your age however if you are young and going thru this now you are blessed
One thing that helps me is to reflect on the words GOD IS SOVEREIGN 'GOD created me ,knows what i can take ,will not give me more read Jeremiah read Jonah and ask Jesus to open yr eyes as did blind Barthemaous ...
PS Your oasis in the wilderness will come and after you have had a gulp its back to the grindstone
You are called and there is no such word as hell
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Why do you feel to need to kick people while they are down JFK? It speaks greatly about the kind of person you are. I love how you finish your post saying that anyone who gives words of encouragement is fake!
Pierdut I'm sorry that you are struggling so much but all I can say is just try to hang on and tackle life day by day. You never know what is just around the corner and it could be tomorrow that you have your breakthrough. Best of luck friend
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Pierdut,
Most of us can relate to how you are feeling and what you are going through. Maybe this is how judgment is?
2Th 1:4 Therefore we ourselves boast about you among God's churches--about your endurance and faith in all the persecutions and afflictions you endure.
2Th 1:5 It is a clear evidence of God's righteous judgment that you will be counted worthy of God's kingdom, for which you also are suffering,
This seems to be the norm if God is saving you. It's gonna get pretty hot up in here, but hang in there it wont take long. :)
1Pe 5:5 Likewise, you younger men, be subject to the elders. And all of you clothe yourselves with humility toward one another, because God resists the proud, but gives grace to the humble.
1Pe 5:6 Humble yourselves therefore under the mighty hand of God, so that He may exalt you in due time,
1Pe 5:7 casting all your care upon Him, because He cares about you.
1Pe 5:8 Be sober! Be on the alert! Your adversary the Devil is prowling around like a roaring lion, looking for anyone he can devour.
1Pe 5:9 Resist him, firm in the faith, knowing that the same sufferings are being experienced by your brothers in the world.
1Pe 5:10 Now the God of all grace, who called you to His eternal glory in Christ Jesus, will personally restore, establish, strengthen, and support you after you have suffered a little.
All is of God and He cares or else He wouldn't have caused all these encouraging replies to you. ;)
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Why all the vitriol against John? I wonder if it is because of the reply to the OP, or the statement about syrupy responses? Perhaps there is more back story in play? In some cases a helping hand and "sun will come out tomorrow" replies help the most. Other times an in your face "get over yourself" response is better. Is one more right than the other? Does all get used by God?
We don't know what all the OP is going through. And sometimes we are led to only lift a prayer for them; other times we may be led to kick their butt, sometimes we may be somewhere in between. I have more respect for someone who acts on their intinct than those who act on their conditioned response. Instincts are the raw clay God molds, conditioned response is what Ray referred to in his "Kiss of Death" article. Where any of us individually fall is something only we can evaluate in our own lives and takes some real soul searching. Personally I have learned to trust my instincts. I think that is closer to God, or at least it is the clay He can work with.
I wonder why the response from the OP was directed at John's post but the others drew none? did John's post make the OP consider his circumstances more, who is to say? On a forum it is hard to not to get our feathers ruffled, but when I see the responses I see sometimes, it seems the OP is forgotten and it is ourselves and our own egos that get pricked the most and that is what we are aguing about.
Nobody is suggesting that anyone whose response is more encouraging is fake, but neither should someone suggests anyone whose response is more of a kick in the pants, makes them a bad person.
Craig
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So now it seems as if we're resorting to conjecture and setting ourselves up as judges? Pretty tragic turn of events when we start analyzing motives of those crying for help. Hope it doesn't lead to people bearing their own burdens for fear of censure. Sad
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Hello all
Is any one,sad,suffering,feeling hopeless,tired of trials,feeling sinful,than help is on the way.
Call 1 800 JFK-help :o ;) :D
Walt
PS love you JFK.
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I don't know how much longer I can go on like this. Why does God hate me so much? After all, did He not create me? Why would God create something He hates? I never asked to be born; now I'm just looking to find a way out. I just can't win; I try and try and things just constantly go wrong in my life - I can't catch a break. My life consists of seeing other people have what I never will - I will never be happy, neither in this life nor the next (if such exists, and I hope it doesn't). You can't comprehend the misery I feel, the hopelessnes, and the rage.
I tried coming to God for help, but that too was in vain. Either He doesn't exist, or He doesn't care, and just hates me, and therefore gets pleasure out of my suffering.
There is no worse feeling than trying and trying, and giving it all you got only to fail time and time again. It's as if some mysterious force was working against me not letting me succeed in life. So what can I do? What's the point of laboring 10 hours a day 5 days a week, and then putting in 6-7 hours on Saturday when it's all for nothing? Really what is the point?
I don't care if you laugh; saying "what a loser" or whatever. It is not for lack of trying - I am not lazy, I am just cursed. Something won't let me succeed, and it is beyond my ability to do something about. So what am I supposed to do? I've prayed, I've tried to repent, and it all just seems like it was in vain.
Well I certainly relate to some of what your going through, I am going through some of it myself. I am not into the " God hates me thing", nor am I a member of the camp that believes God hates sinners; because I think God's Love and hate, is nothing like ours. When he Loves; he has a certain kind of Love, and when he hates, its conversely a certain kind of hate, which I think no human can correctly define. I believe that God will both ignore and keep a distance from certain people for his own reasons; and living like that is a real suffering for that human. Especially if that human is aware that God is doing that to them, we then can react to it in all kinds of mannerisms. Living without God is just rough; I have never known what living with him is like; I imagine it is a wonderful thing. When you don't know why the suffering, I doubt that anybody who is not suffering will correctly understand what your going through anyway. Its easy to judge someone's suffering, its harder to go through the suffering.
When we keep trying and keep falling, there is no Joy in that; it becomes hard to " Experience all the good things the bible promises", and it seems those promises are just not meant for you.
I have prayed for you , and I feel for you; you help me to know that I am not alone in this particular kind of suffering. I have discovered that you can actually overcome sin after sin, actually be getting better, but still the suffering continues, and God seems not to care; seems like he will not draw close to you, so sin is not always the cause of this unusual situation.
All I can say is that if God has one in it, then that is where they will be; who can straighten what God has bent? If God has bent you, you cannot straighten yourself out, and nobodyelse can either. IF he has bent you, your better off than if you bent yourself; because there then is a divine purpose he has for doing it. And that purpose may never be understood in this life?
The way I see it, no matter how bad it gets, never stop trying; never stop believing, and never give up hope for release. The other choice is to just give up. I think what Job said is encouraging; " Though you slay me, yet will I trust you."
And God certainly slays and bends certain people; for whatever reason? I certainly don't know why!
May you suffer better.
Peace.
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I had originally removed my post because it seemed overwhelmingly that my interpretation of the OP was in the minority.
I leaned much more towards Johns perspective on the matter, minus the "hate" part.
The OP seemed to need a good "kick in the butt" or "wake up" and less of the "mememe" as I had originally put it.
I see now, after craigs responce, that it is wrong for me to hide what I felt God was leading me to say.
I Post this in clear conscious but with a lack of information from the OP as well. I can only comment on what it seems to me is occuring.
My biggest reason for what I was feeling was "Losing the will to live..."
I know I can be overly harsh on myself because of my sinful behavior but I don't think that is the same as believing I'm curse and that I don't want to live anymore. I tend to take my overly harshness as my nakedness being exposed. It is a painful thing to realize.
This post, however, feels different.
I feel like a politician now... going back and forth but I guess its not right for me to throw my thought on the matter out, especially if I feel it spoken in clear conscious, and then retract it due to being in a minority.
I do love all my brothers and sisters in Christ dearly!
Words of Wisdom were once spoken: Open rebuke is better than secret love.
I'm not accusing anyone of "secret love" or "the kiss of death," merely speaking of my own self and what moves me to respond as I did and as I am now.
With love,
Alex
P.S. Please don't take my post as a "choosing of sides" merely something I had to do to clear up my conscious in this matter as it was bugging me.
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Some have suggested feeling thankful by comparing yourselves to others who are in a worse situation. This method has been helpful to me time and time again...when I've been sick, when I've been lonely, when I've been out of money, etc.
I learned about this method from one of my favorite books, Robinson Crusoe. His father told him to be thankful and content with the very ordinary life he had--because he was a lot better off than the poverty-stricken, and he didn't have all the headaches and worries that come with being rich. After he was shipwrecked on a lonely, far-off island, Robinson remembered the wise words of his father. After a period of feeling sorry for himself, he realized he actually had a really good life all by himself on his island. I read this book several times as a youngster, and it's a lesson I've never forgotten. Some quotes:
“I learned to look more upon the bright side of my condition, and less upon the dark side, and to consider what I enjoyed, rather than what I wanted : and this gave me sometimes such secret comforts, that I cannot express them ; and which I take notice of here, to put those discontented people in mind of it, who cannot enjoy comfortably what God has given them, because they see and covet something that he has not given them. All our discontents about what we want appeared to me to spring from the want of thankfulness for what we have.”
“It put me upon reflecting how little repining there would be among mankind at any condition of life, if people would rather compare their condition with those that were worse, in order to be thankful, than be always comparing them with those which are better, to assist their murmurings and complaining.”
“These reflections made me very sensible of the goodness of Providence to me, and very thankful for my present condition, with all its hardships and misfortunes ; and this part also I cannot but recommend to the reflection of those who are apt, in their misery, to say, Is any affliction like mine? Let them consider how much worse the cases of some people are, and their case might have been, if Providence had thought fit.”
“But how just it has been! And how should all men reflect, that when they compare their present conditions with others that are worse, Heaven may oblige them to make the exchange, and be convinced of their former felicity by their experience...”
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craig, for my own part, jfk's post reply to pierdut was not so much about the "syrupy kisses" as it was john's statement that he could easily "hate" pierdut. and his calling out of those who's personality is more compassionate and merciful as fakes is just ridiculous. yes, we all need a swift kick in the butt craig and john, but i don't think the time to do it is when the person needing uplifting is down and in the dirt of despair. call it what you want, bottom line is it is unloving. i was reading through more of the old emails to ray last night and i never saw anywhere in his responses words such as jfk used towards pierdut, when people wrote him about the turmoil in their lives. he almost always said he would pray for them.
i just can't get onboard with anyone who says (especially publicly) they can easily hate another brother.
claudia
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Conversion can be such an ugly process.
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craig, for my own part, jfk's post reply to pierdut was not so much about the "syrupy kisses" as it was john's statement that he could easily "hate" pierdut. and his calling out of those who's personality is more compassionate and merciful as fakes is just ridiculous. yes, we all need a swift kick in the butt craig and john, but i don't think the time to do it is when the person needing uplifting is down and in the dirt of despair. call it what you want, bottom line is it is unloving. i was reading through more of the old emails to ray last night and i never saw anywhere in his responses words such as jfk used towards pierdut, when people wrote him about the turmoil in their lives. he almost always said he would pray for them.
i just can't get onboard with anyone who says (especially publicly) they can easily hate another brother.
claudia
I am getting a strong impression that I won't be voted the BT Mr. Congeniality this year. :'( :'( :'(
Good thing the Kingdom of God is not a democracy.
Ray wrote an article called Why Does God Love You?
In that article, Ray wrote that God hates both sin and sinners. Ray quoted 14 Scriptures to support that God hates sinners. I agree with those Scriptures. One of those Scriptures is:
If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, God's curse be upon him. 1 Cor. 16:22 Moffatt Translation
In Pierdut's first post above, he states that he is filled with hopelessness and rage and a lust for physical things that others have. Pierdut questions if the next life (the Resurrection) exists and he states that he hopes it doesn't.
Pierdut also says that either God does not exist, or doesn't care and takes pleasure out of his suffering.
The statements made by Pierdut are not of the Spirit of God, and thus he is not my brother.
I won't tolerate such statements made by people in my presence. I will speak against them. That's just the way it is.
It is NOT physical 'things' that I 'lust for' or desire; neither money nor fame. If I were that materialistic then I would have been deserving of your scorn.
I don't take any pleasure in my suffering. If you meant that I said that God takes pleasure in my suffering, well, then, I don't know, that's what it seems like at times. And I believe I was asking a question not making an assertion.
I quess that scripture you quoted means that I was right about being cursed. I am not sure, but I think that it could be because God won't let me live the life I want(ed) to live, and thus wouldn't let me succeed while trying to live apart from him. I am trying to figure it out; am I cursed and therefore hopeless, or is there still hope for me? Although that would entail not only being willing to give up on some things, but also being able to actually do so. And as Ray has taught, I have no freewill, so, ultimately what God predetermined will come to pass; I'll just choose accordingly.
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Conversion can be such an ugly process.
But the end result will be quite beautiful! 8)
René
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There is no such thing as hopeless.
we all may be hopeless at some time or other in our lives, as we life in this body of flesh john. that does not mean we remain hopeless, but we experience a feeling of hopelessness. there are many reasons one may have a time of feeling hopeless. i remember you felt "too devastated" at one point in your life, per a post reply by you to another forum member, to do anything but fall on your face in prayer and supplication. was this feeling of being too devastated not also a feeling of being hopeless, in light of what was transpiring in your life john? no matter how short or how long you experienced that feeling of being "too devastated" or "hopeless" (as in pierdut's situation).
claudia
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........am I cursed and therefore hopeless, or is there still hope for me? Although that would entail not only being willing to give up on some things, but also being able to actually do so. And as Ray has taught, I have no freewill, so, ultimately what God predetermined will come to pass; I'll just choose accordingly.
THAT'S THE IMPASS YOU HAD TO GET TO Pierdut!
Surrender is not defeat. It is the every knee shall bow in the atmosphere that is our incomprehensible God.
Defeat leaves the ego alive and well.
Surrender is FATHER, into your hands I commend my Spirit/Life/Body and soul.
You ARE entering through the narrow gate Pierdut. Now judgement, on the house of God, hurts SO bad.
Defiance does turn to submission and submission turns to surrender THEN Love washes the hurt, heals the ignorance and restores understanding that is not of the world nor can be taught by the world.
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I am getting a strong impression that I won't be voted the BT Mr. Congeniality this year. :'( :'( :'(
Good thing the Kingdom of God is not a democracy.
Ray wrote an article called Why Does God Love You?
In that article, Ray wrote that God hates both sin and sinners. Ray quoted 14 Scriptures to support that God hates sinners. I agree with those Scriptures. One of those Scriptures is:
If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, God's curse be upon him. 1 Cor. 16:22 Moffatt Translation
In Pierdut's first post above, he states that he is filled with hopelessness and rage and a lust for physical things that others have. Pierdut questions if the next life (the Resurrection) exists and he states that he hopes it doesn't.
Pierdut also says that either God does not exist, or doesn't care and takes pleasure out of his suffering.
The statements made by Pierdut are not of the Spirit of God, and thus he is not my brother.
I won't tolerate such statements made by people in my presence. I will speak against them. That's just the way it is.
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In my view, whatever believers opinions and beliefs about Gods Love are, they will fall short of explaining how good it really is, no matter how strong of an explination they give; those explinations, no matter how good they are, Gods Love will be far better and far more than they can explain. Conversely, in my view, no matter how a believer tries to explain God's hate, his hate will always be far less than what they try to explain and believe it is; his hate is in no manner greater than his Love. His hate for humans, is not human hate, and I don't see how any believer in God can properly explain or understand God's hate.
God is just different; his Love is different; his hate is different; his hate may contain charactheristics of Love? It may contain elements of Mercy and Grace, I don't think we really know? Its easy to quote scripture and say God hates, but I think its harder to correctly explain that hate. How is a human going to hate someone, and yet give them life, care for them, and make provisions for them, and ultimately save them? And yet still hate them? Well that is what God is doing and will do with his hate; that's a different kind of hate, in my view. Its not a condemning hate; its not a destructive hate; its not a hate that wipes out the future of the person, or the potential of the person; or the ultimate forgiveness of the person; because God will not always hate, he will eventually forgive.
Again in my view, hate is not a natural part of God; its unatural in him. I think he had to " Bring himself to do it;" In my understanding of certain scriptures like Job 40:10 " Adorn yourself with eminence and dignity; clothe " Yourself" with honor and Majesty." This seems to me that God " Did these things to himself"; so powerful that he can actually create parts of himself! Or do things to himself. Clothe himself; which is awful close to me seeing that he created parts of himself. Conversely this is how I think God came to hate things, he had to " Bring himself to do it." Oh sure, we humans gave him plenty of reason, but I still think its something he had to " Kind of make himself do." But this again is just my opinion;in Psalm 93:1 it again says that God " Clothed and Girded HIMSELF with Strength." Increased himself; one could say" created" those parts of himself?
God hateing humans, I think is just more to it than meets our understanding. On the one end, it can be motivating to a believer to do better, who wants God to hate them; yet on another end it may spell complette doom in the mind of an unbeliever if they think God hates them, and just sap all of their fadeing hope.
I don't think hate increases in God, nor is a perminent thing in him. I personally think he has to make himself do it.
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Hi Pierdut
When I had first read your thread I remembered a time when I could relate to that which you were speaking of. I wanted to respond then but felt prevented from doing so at that time.
I had read the responses you had received but had not passed judgement on anyone for the things they said. I like how Craig said
Craig wrote
( In some cases a helping hand and "sun will come out tomorrow" replies help the most. Other times an in your face "get over yourself" response is better. Is one more right than the other? Does all get used by God? )
That is such a awesome response as it says so much however which response does one use to help another in need that is the question.
I’m a babe in Jesus so what do I know besides a couple of truths I learned here at B.T. If I were to give you advice it would simply be to not read but study the lake of fire series.
My prayers are with you and I certainly hope you find understanding in how God is dealing with you or at least acceptance in His dealing with you.
Love and peace to ALL
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For JFK, I just want to say; judge and condemn and even hate me. But just remember; with what judgment you judge you will be judged, and with what measure you use it will be measured onto you. I created this thread while in deep distress and some saw it as an opportunity to kick a man while he is down. That was low down and dirty, and not what I expected from 'God's elect.' I guess the lesson to be learned is; never go to man for help, for you will just get ridiculed.
While I did also get some good replies, I should have not created this thread - I just embarrassed myself by doing so. And that's the last thing I needed.
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As for the title; I didn't mean 'Hell' as in the Christian 'Hell' with fire and brimstone - just as a very awful place which no man wants to be. I meant it as a figure of speech.
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Peirdut -
I just wanted to share with you my own daily and ongoing thoughts:
1. Before we can fully eat the Fruit of the Tree of Life, we must fully eat the Fruit of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil - by our Life's experiences (one Tree with two opposing Fruit).
2. I still do not fully understand the Responsibility of Our Heavenly Father (as He is Sovereign over All) in the context of our own individual Accountability's.
3. I know that all our steps, decisions, emotions, sufferings and lives are prepared by Our Heavenly Father; and there is nothing anyone of us can prevent His Will and Intention.
4. I check my innermost motives in every situation to ascertain if I am ruled by His Holy Spirit or by the worldly Pride of Life, Lust of the Eyes or the Lust of the Flesh.
5. Daily, I Repent of my sins (known and unknown); as well as those that are close to me in my life (just in case they sinned) - and I forgive those who persecute me and mine - and Bless them and not curse them.
6. As a very wise mature Lady often tells me "Life is Hard"; and often "Life is Very, Very, Hard - almost to the point of it being unbearable" - until your situation changes for the better, or the issue is resolved.
7. Our sufferings produce the required Fruit of Our Heavenly Father's Holy Spirit in us, and in those who hurt and persecute us (in due course).
8. I am comforted in the knowledge that the principle thing is Wisdom; and Our Saviour and Father are Wise -m and in total control of all at all times.
9. Above all else, Our Saviour and Our Heavenly Father are LOVE - at all times.
George.
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John nailed it bigtime, Me dont have to say anything now. :) Going back to bed. Peirdut, Smile Jesus loves you, You cant change that. Study and Wait. God will then come to you, He already has because you are here, He will come to you with more, a little at a time. Belief, is a wise wager, if you Gain, you Gain all, if you lose, you lose, nothing. Bless you all. Ricky
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Really can't believe this thread has now reached 3 pages. With the wealth of info Ray has left us and this is the most responded to post. For the love of everything holy move on... Pierdut....sorry for your troubles but that is exactly what we a promised...... If I were you, I'd have a couple of cold ones and get over it. Really I would.
Longhorn
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I would say pray and ask for the spirit of the Lord.......
All of the writings of Ray is very simple that even me who is not perpect in English and not fluent could easily understand the meanings and beyond meanings with the help of the spirit of the Lord.
Now, i don't worry for my death, before i was confused of who with me when that time comes.
Ahhhhhhhhhh!!! in death is the safest place until the Lord will call me. :)
Not only that there a lots, so why should you worry about your sins about your today and tomorrow, The grace of our Lord is enough for me and for you! ;)
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May you suffer better.
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LOL
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May you suffer better.
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LOL
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There are some things in life that are for sure; suffering is one of them. In one sense when we say to others; " Have a good life", we are saying " May you suffer better.' Spiritual understanding and the absorbing of true knowledge can very well be a " Suffering in progress'; as we progress we suffer, as we suffer we progress; often not even able to subtract one from the other.
Or tell the difference between one or the other.
I once thought that learning the truth was going to be a popular, comfortable piece of cake; only to discover that at times I can't swallow some of it because it hurts me too much.