bible-truths.com/forums
=> Testimonies / Prayer Requests / Fellowship => Topic started by: Astrapho on November 15, 2009, 01:14:34 PM
-
I seem to be doing exactly that.
Okay basically I'm the type who avoids confrontation whenever possible. Especially about religious belief. So ever since coming to bible-truths, maybe I've dropped my two cents in some places on the internet on the whole hell thing, but that's about the whole extent of my... Light sharing. (I think that's because I'm afraid I'll get pummeled to death by the christians if I tried.)
I've been on this truth trip for about... WOW HALF A YEAR ( :-[ )and I still can't stand up for my beliefs when it comes to it. I mean when I hear something false about God said by my catholic friends and teachers as advice to me, I'll think to myself, "THAZ NOT TRUE!!!", but I won't say it, I'll just nod and go, "Oh, yeah you're right." I can probably talk exhaustively about why I don't believe in free will, right now. But when it comes to actually telling people, I'll be like... "Oh, no, I totally believe in free will." So no matter how much I want to say, "THAZ NOT TRUE", I, invariably, never do. (And tell lies as a result)
I don't even dare to share the light with my best friends. Ok I tried with my friends, a little bit. And they're like, "Oh my gosh go get a life, don't read up too much on this crazy God stuff or you'll become one of those crazies." And maybe they're right, maybe I'm just too young to handle any of this and that's all there is to it. But I really hope that's not the case because I really want to learn... Well, more truth.
I'm sorry for taking up all your time for my little personal problem, but... Seriously, I'm sick of leading a double life but I find that I can't kick it. I've prayed about it. I'm still hiding my lamp underneath the bowl and that can't be good.
Need some good ol' advice from the more wise and matured members around here. ;-;
P.S. I was hesitant to post any of this because I think that this problem is trivial and can be solved by simply waiting. But after going through two days of camping with Catholics and having them feed me their crazy doctrine non-stop, I've decided that I'm absolutely sick of leading a double life and that I need help. Because I haven't been very successful on my own.
P.S.S. (just a thought, but while typing the above I felt rather silly because God planned everything already anyway, we can't do anything without Him etc. etc. and I know it... Just a thought.)
EDIT: LOL I was contemplating not posting this altogether and was about to leave the page, when I hit the enter button by accident and the whole thing posted, so... Okay I guess I'll leave it.
-
Ray's biblestudy audio on foundational truths will be of immense help to you here;
http://bible-truths.com/audio/Bible%20Study%2002-03-08.mp3
He gives a small number of scriptures that you can use to confound the mighty.
For me, I used to like to debate the Word of God and I still need to be careful about that. If you go into it with the wrong attitude God won't bless you in the process. However as I was humbled into coming into the knowledge of these truths and the reality that I didn't know nearly as much as I thought I did I too just shut my mouth and began to learn. Over time I believe as you grow in these truths you will be able to defend them appropriately. Just remember that God has to open other peoples hearts or they won't see these truths....the same as when you first began to believe them. What I usually do now is to present some snippets of the truth on the various internet forums with a link back to the website. We bait the hook and then it's up to God whether or not the fish take the bait.
-
Hey, there Astrapho!
Don't get discouraged, because you're right, it will all turn out because God has it all planned out!! You're in a place where you are still subjected to parental and school authority..the one thing to remember is when it's possible hold your tongue..never let anyone tell you to go against what you know to be right, though..
Let people believe what they want to..don't try to change anyone and just be ready to give an answer for the way you believe..mostly your friends really probably don't much care if they love you for who you are! share when you can..in a sweet spirit..you'll be out there in the world of reality soon enough..
The scriptures tell us..
Rom 12:2 "and not to be configured to this eon, but to be transformed by the renewing of your mind, for you to be testing what is the will of God, good and well pleasing and perfect."
the King James puts it...."Be not conformed to this world but be transformed by the renewing of your mind"
Keep your mind and your heart on the Lord don't let anyone change you or try to make you conform..
just let God transform you into the person He wants you to be and that is just the best advice I can give you...it works for me!!!
Don't be discouraged and let God work in you His work of perfection and when the time is right you will be able to stand strong and hold to what you know against anything you face! :D I'm not minimizing what you're going through because of your age, I hope you don't feel like I am..I'm just saying to hang in there and let God bring you to the place you desire! He planted those desires in you!!! :D
Stay sweet!!
Kathy ;)
-
Thanks for the replies!
My problem lies more in real life, actually. In school, when christians try to preach to me and everything and they spout all their crazy doctrine, I agree with all of them. And that's what kills me, I don't dare to answer against them or even say anything that implies, "I think thaz not right...". So one group of them insisted on dragging me to their church next week after a lot of preaching and persuading, and guess what, I was on the verge of challenging what she said and saying, "THAZ NOT TRUE BECAUSE ____ SAYS THIS" when "Ok, right" came out of my mouth. So now I'm stuck with going to a pentecostal church because of my cowardly cowardice! :'(
@Ninny: No, not at all. :D Thanks for the encouragement. I've been looking at it really gloomily so at least that's some sunshine. ;D
As for the debate thing, I had that problem at first too, got pretty excited after learning all the truths! Thankfully, I also had my computer mysteriously jamming on me right before I post challenges to internet christians so my attempts to debate never came to fruition. Over time I took the hint (that's way too many coincidences) and stopped attempting to debate and just learn my stuff first. Thank God!! (Haha, sorry, irrelevant detail, I know, but I thought that it was rather funny.)
Thanks for the link, almost forgot about that one! Since my speakers are busted I'm gonna be scooting off to read the transcript now. :)
(Forgive me for the long reply, again D; )
-
Hello Astrapho,
Your personality is what people think you are, but your character is what you really are. Your personality is all that is standing in your way. There is not one thing wrong about disagreeing with something you know is wrong, or saying what you believe in. You don't have to explain it; although its better if you can. Why should you care if someone thinks your crazy or wrong in your belief? I feel that I'm not doing something right if disbelievers don't think I'm crazy, or out there in the zone, or think I'm wrong for believing what I believe. Character is good. Personality is just excess baggage that weighs you down.Say what you feel and believe. Just don't argue it.
Personality's are just another one of those idols of the heart that says don't go there because of what they might think.
Be blessed.
Peace
Roy
-
Let me tell you a bedtime story. ;D ;D
When I was a freshman in college, I enrolled in a History of Western Civilization class. I was a skinny 18-year old who shaved twice a month whether I needed it or not. I was also a 'leader' in our Baptist church youth group and pretty dang spiritual, if I may say so myself. ;) And why shouldn't I? Lots of other people were saying it. ;D As a matter of fact, in Baptist parlance, I had "surrendered to preach" and was beginning my education with the intention of going into the ministry. Woooooooo.
The very first class session in this History course, the professor stands up at his desk and asks if anybody in the class believed in God. Now...this was Memphis Tennessee, the buckle of the Bible belt. I really wanted to raise my hand and testify to my great Faith in God, but as I glanced around the room, I didn't see any hands going up. So I didn't raise mine either. I felt like Peter denying Christ. What an insult to Peter! I couldn't even admit to a vague belief in a vague notion of god, much less identify myself with a crucified Lord.
As strange and counter-intuitive as it might seem, it was GOOD that He had caused me to fail so miserably. Why?
Rev 3:15-19 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth. (that sounds like you and me, huh?)
Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked: I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see. As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.
I learned quickly that I was NOT (spiritually) rich and increased with (spiritual) goods, needing nothing (spiritually). Instead, I was (spiritually) wretched and miserable, (spiritually) poor and blind and naked. And that's been true every day of my life since then, just as it was that day and every day I thought I had it 'going on' before then.
You and I are in the process of spiritually buying that spiritual gold tried in the fire so that our spiritual poverty can be changed to spiritual riches. Isn't that what we want? We actually, in Spirit and Truth, want what we used to think we had.
In the meantime, He WANTS us either cold or hot. That's His DESIRE for us. Religion doesn't really believe this, but it's better to be COLD than lukewarm! We won't put any clothes on until we realize we're cold.
We already know the end of the growth in boldness He is putting us through. Every knee will bow and every tongue will acclaim... You're getting a share of His rebuke and chastening now. Your zealousness is growing...you've said it in your own way "I've decided that I'm absolutely sick of leading a double life..." (lukewarmness). You will repent, sooner or later. And when you do, it will begin small. And you'll think, "This little light of mine is totally inconsequential and worthless." until the Spirit of Truth reminds you that it's just faith the size of a (spiritual) mustard seed that will remove (spiritual) mountains, and that faith leads to faith.
It's been about a year and a half since I started on this Truth trip. I'm just now beginning to express this gospel in potentially hostile territory. For the most part, I am holding on with both hands, teeth, and toenails to the Gospel that I have recieved, lest it be plucked away.
You're in His hands.
-
Very good Dave.
Roy
-
Astrapho,
You and I are opposite personalities. I am the big mouth that used to couldn't wait to tell people my opinion or tell them they were wrong. Loved confrontation. :-[
That is why the Lord made me learn to close my mouth BEFORE He showed me His truth.
So this is how I handle things now. I WILL NOT agree with what I know to be a lie BUT I can keep my mouth shut unless God makes it clear I am to speak up. When I am in a group, I never feel the need to become the only one who disagrees. God wouldn't set me up for that, at least not yet. :o
But there have been situations where He allowed me to speak up and gently correct or interject truth into a conversation in a one-on-one situation. It usually comes out of a question to me.
I have no desire to offend and push those I love away by speaking up when it isn't in God's perfect timing for them to hear.
Relax. God will let you know when you are to speak. But I walk away rather than appear to be in agreement if I am not led to speak up in disagreement.
I think all of us will be used by God some day in some way. For now, I will continue to learn so I can defend what I believe with God's powerful Word. But as for age, I am in awe of you younger ones that God has called. How I wish I knew then what I know now. But that wasn't God's plan for me and I happily accept that. You aren't too young to be used by Him. He called you at this age for a reason. How exciting! ;D
Lin
-
I WILL NOT agree with what I know to be a lie BUT I can keep my mouth shut unless God makes it clear I am to speak up.
I have no desire to offend and push those I love away by speaking up when it isn't in God's perfect timing for them to hear.
Relax. God will let you know when you are to speak.
But I walk away rather than appear to be in agreement if I am not led to speak up in disagreement.
But as for age, I am in awe of you younger ones that God has called. How I wish I knew then what I know now. But that wasn't God's plan for me and I happily accept that. You aren't too young to be used by Him. He called you at this age for a reason. How exciting! ;D
lin,
your post was so spot on. and the statements above that you made, were, well, exactly how i feel.
claudia
-
astrapho,
you have been given some excellent things to meditate on, and which all of us who read this thread can meditate on. 8)
as i read your original thread post i immediately thought of paul exhorting timothy to, in paraphrasing, not let his young age be a factor in how he walks on the journey planned and purposed for his life. you can read 1 tim. 4:12 to get a better understanding what paul was telling timothy he needed to be doing. if you can use esword, you can look up the Scripture and it will help you see the meanings of the words used.
hang in there astrapho. our Father God will give you voice to stand up for His Truths, or give you the Wisdom to know when to walk away. continue to go to Him. again, and again, and again, and again...
claudia
-
@Roy: Oh yes! Everything in there was pretty much spot on. (I didn't realize that it was an idol of my heart until you pointed it out! :o That's one more thing to pray about.)
@Dave: That... Was such an awesome post I can't even begin to describe its awesomeness. :o I shall be thinking long and hard on it, that's for sure!!
@claudia: Ahh yes, well said. I only pray that my faith in Him will stay strong enough to last all the "agains"! :D
1Ti 4:12 Let no man despise thy youth; but be thou an example of the believers, in word, in conversation, in charity, in spirit, in faith, in purity.
( :o )
Thanks again, guys, I'm glad I decided to finally ask. ;D
Edit: @Lin: What claudia said. :D
Usually I'm put into a situation where I can't walk away (when I can, I do it too. Better than, you know, appearing to accept it... D: )! God's making me face it head on and, yeah, I always end up bending and agreeing...
By the way, update, totally forgot about this. Today I talked to one of my christian classmates about... Doctrine. And this time I didn't agree!! She started talking about hell, and we had a friendly discussion about it since we were having a free period. Hell is a topic that gets me fired up (pun not intended) but we managed to keep it cool and casual somehow.
I'm just happy I didn't lie about agreeing this time. :D
-
I'm happy enough you simply don't agree. :D That comes first.
There is nothing like adolescence to get baptized into the realization of every sin, failing, and weakness. It is an experience of evil (no doubt) by which the Lord will humble you...and everyone who loves you, too. ;D
...Yet anyone who shall be exalting himself shall be humbled, and anyone who shall be humbling himself shall be exalted." Mat 23:12
Be humbled, then, under the mighty hand of God, that He should be exalting you in season, tossing your entire worry on Him, for He is caring concerning you." 1Pe 5:6,7
-
Hi Astropho,
It's understandable that walking away can be difficult to do, but I have found that saying nothing can be a very powerful tool. If someone is then interested enough as to why you didn't say anything, and asks.....
" yet hallow the Lord Christ in your hearts, ever ready with a defense for everyone who is demanding from you an account concerning the expectation in you, but with meekness and fear," 1Pe 3:15 (clv)
Geoff
-
Be humbled, then, under the mighty hand of God, that He should be exalting you in season, tossing your entire worry on Him, for He is caring concerning you." 1Pe 5:6,7
dave,
thanks for posting this Scripture. it is exactly what i needed to read tonight.
claudia
ps. i just wanted to say that your first post on this thread was absolutely inspiring to me. :)
-
Dave, I loved your bedtime story...very nice, and thank you! :D We are just all in this thing together, aren't we!
Kathy ;)
-
We are just all in this thing together, aren't we!
yes we are ninny, yes we are.
claudia
-
OH NO!!! I'm in trouble!!! She wants to talk about it tomorrow. D: D: Oh no!!!! I blurted something about telling her that "I know what Revelation means and it's not about the end of the world"... AHHH!!!! Oh no oh no oh no!!!! I know I'm not going back to her church either way but I can't help panicking. She says she wants to tell me something "incredible about the rapture". She says she wants me to go to her church next Sunday. I told her, "No, I don't believe what your church believes anymore."
I can't help but feel that she'll pin me down tomorrow. How am I going to explain why I don't believe in hell? How am I going to explain why Aionios doesn't mean everlasting? How am I going to explain why free will doesn't exist?
I know I'm just being paranoid and that it's up to God to decide if she'll understand or not... But I'm still scared for some reason.
(Edit: Oh, and did I mention that her PASTOR will be involved?)
Sorry for necroing this thread, but I couldn't stand the pressure. :'(
-
Hi girl..I'll be praying for you..Don't panic.. I don't know how to advise you other than just to be confident in that you belong to God..He's got you, just remember that!
Love you, girlie! :D
Kathy ;)
-
Hello Astrapho
Your experience of dismay in saying one thing while thinking another, or doing something you do not want to do, is reflected in the Scriptures. You are not alone in this experience. God purges out the old ways to remove the dross of our carnal and natural mind. We all have to begin somewhere to see that we are the Beast before we can repent through the goodness of God. It is wonderful that this process seems to be starting so early in your life.
Rom 7 : 14 We know that the law is spiritual: but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. 15. I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do.....24. What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death?
Only God and His Spirit can lead you to wanting to be rescued.
Arc
-
OH NO!!! I'm in trouble!!! She wants to talk about it tomorrow. D: D: Oh no!!!! I blurted something about telling her that "I know what Revelation means and it's not about the end of the world"... AHHH!!!! Oh no oh no oh no!!!! I know I'm not going back to her church either way but I can't help panicking. She says she wants to tell me something "incredible about the rapture". She says she wants me to go to her church next Sunday. I told her, "No, I don't believe what your church believes anymore."
I can't help but feel that she'll pin me down tomorrow. How am I going to explain why I don't believe in hell? How am I going to explain why Aionios doesn't mean everlasting? How am I going to explain why free will doesn't exist?
I know I'm just being paranoid and that it's up to God to decide if she'll understand or not... But I'm still scared for some reason.
(Edit: Oh, and did I mention that her PASTOR will be involved?)
Sorry for necroing this thread, but I couldn't stand the pressure. :'(
Hi Astrapho, I could be wrong about this but I dont think it is very important you need to prove anything to anyone, especially if you are not prepared. It might be best to tell them (like you did) you simply do not believe what they do any more and just leave it at that for now. I have been struggling with this lately also, so just so you know we are (possibly) in the same boat.
Here is an excerpt from 'Winning Souls for Jesus?-Two Billion Strong and Counting…?' @
http://bible-truths.com/souls.htm
Certainly we should all follow Peter’s admonition to:
"…be ready always to give an answer to every man that asks you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear [reverence]" (I Pet. 3:15).
But God has not called all to be teachers:
"Not all are apostles. Not all are prophets. Not all are teachers" (I Cor. 12:29, Concordant Literal N.T.).
LIGHT AND SALT DON’T ARGUE OR MAKE NOISE
"Ye are the salt of the earth… Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid… Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works and glorify your Father which is in heaven" (Matt. 5:1,14,16).
Salt does not make any noise, and light does not argue Scriptures. Neither salt nor light makes any sound whatsoever. Maybe there is a lesson in there.
Too many people learn a few truths of God and think that they are ready to take on the world. They usually start by trying to embarrass their Pastor with their new-gained knowledge. Usually they fall flat on their face on the very first try. It’s all about motivation. If your motivation is carnal, God will not back you. Yes, I know, all of you are saying: "But my motivation is to show them God’s truths." Yes, sure, I understand, but THEY DON’T WANT TO HEAR GOD’S TRUTHS, and you already know this, so what is your point? Leave them alone and let them taste your salt and see your light and admire your good works, and perchance they will even praise God for your new-found humility,
You will never argue anyone into accepting the truths of God’s Word. As salesmen are often taught: "You might win the argument, but loose the sale," so don’t argue. And this: "He who is persuaded against his will; is of the same opinion still."
I receive a lot of emails from people who beg me to come to their rescue because they are about to have a second session with their pastor or friend, but have failed miserably on the first go-round. Now they want me to give them the ammunition they need to do a slam-dunk on their second attempt to embarrass their pastor or friend. Give it up—that attitude is wrong. Such a carnal exhibition of prideful flesh is akin to someone looking for a street fight merely because he has just acquired a black belt in karate.
HOW TO DEMONSTRATE YOUR KNOWLEDGE OF THE TRUTH
I personally know a man who has his little wife working two jobs to support their family so that he can study the Scriptures and enter into doctrinal debates with other Christians at the local Café as a perpetual hobby. Notice the admonition of the Apostle Peter:
"Dearly beloved, I beseech you as strangers and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts, which war against the soul; having your conversation [Gk: ‘conduct’] honest [Gk: ‘honorable’] among the Gentiles: that, whereas they speak against you as evildoers, they may BY YOUR GOOD WORKS, [Not your clever Bible arguments], which they shall behold, glorify God in the day of visitation" (I Pet. 2:11-12).
Your good works and righteous character will pay dividends to others eventually—if not in this life, then in the Judgment.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I probably needed this more than anyone right now, but I hope it helps you and relieve a little pressure. Salt and light makes no noise.
Maybe whats most important right now is that you "come out of her", study and learn these truths and live them.
Peace, G.Driggs
-
Maybe whats most important right now is that you "come out of her", study and learn these truths and live them.
Sound advice George. :)
Also,a little snippet from our teacher on teaching.
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,5605.0.html
BOTTOM LINE: It is not necessary; we are not obligated; it is not incumbent upon us; we do no NEED to prove our faith to the satisfaction of those who DESPISE THE WORD OF GOD! If we know it in our hearts and minds we are not obligated to prove it to these people that despise the word of God, we’re not obligated. But I teach this, of course for our benefit.
Peace...Mark
-
If it were me I'd say the following.
"I have no interest in debating you. I appreciate that you are concerned about me but you can trust that I am right where God wants me to be. I am a student and not a teacher at this time."
Just my opinion.
Lin
-
Hi Astrapho,
I can see that you are having a lot of trouble standing up for what you believe. Not that you are letting these people sway you in their beliefs, but you just can't stand up to them. Well if you just are not ready to give an answer, then don't. Come up with a one liner that you can say and repeat until these people give up and leave you alone, like 'I am not ready to discuss this with you right now, I will let you know when I am.' Maybe if you have something you are ready to say, then you won't have those undesirable things pop out.
But something else you can do is to give them the BT web address and tell them this is where you learned everything you know. Now I know you may be thinking that they will come back and confront you with what is on the site and you may not want that. Well just give them your one liner, 'I am not ready to discuss this with you right now, I will let you know when I am.'
Anyway just wanted to encourage you and see if I could offer a little help :)
mercy, peace and love
Kat
-
Sorry for the length, but this passage came to mind:
John 9
And as Jesus passed by, He saw a man which was blind from his birth. And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind? Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him.
I must work the works of Him that sent me, while it is day: the night cometh, when no man can work. As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world. When He had thus spoken, He spat on the ground, and made clay of the spittle, and He anointed the eyes of the blind man with the clay, And said unto him, Go, wash in the pool of Siloam, (which is by interpretation, Sent.) He went his way therefore, and washed, and came seeing.
The neighbours therefore, and they which before had seen him that he was blind, said, Is not this he that sat and begged? Some said, This is he: others said, He is like him: but he said, I am he. Therefore said they unto him, How were thine eyes opened? He answered and said, A man that is called Jesus made clay, and anointed mine eyes, and said unto me, Go to the pool of Siloam, and wash: and I went and washed, and I received sight.
Then said they unto him, Where is He? He said, I know not. They brought to the Pharisees him that aforetime was blind. And it was the sabbath day when Jesus made the clay, and opened his eyes. Then again the Pharisees also asked him how he had received his sight. He said unto them, He put clay upon mine eyes, and I washed, and do see.
Therefore said some of the Pharisees, This man is not of God, because he keepeth not the sabbath day. Others said, How can a man that is a sinner do such miracles? And there was a division among them. They say unto the blind man again, What sayest thou of him, that he hath opened thine eyes? He said, He is a prophet. But the Jews did not believe concerning him, that he had been blind, and received his sight, until they called the parents of him that had received his sight.
And they asked them, saying, Is this your son, who ye say was born blind? how then doth he now see? His parents answered them and said, We know that this is our son, and that he was born blind: But by what means he now seeth, we know not; or who hath opened his eyes, we know not: he is of age; ask him: he shall speak for himself. These words spake his parents, because they feared the Jews: for the Jews had agreed already, that if any man did confess that he was Christ, he should be put out of the synagogue. Therefore said his parents, He is of age; ask him.
Then again called they the man that was blind, and said unto him, Give God the praise: we know that this man is a sinner. He answered and said, Whether he be a sinner or no, I know not: one thing I know, that, whereas I was blind, now I see. Then said they to him again, What did he to thee? how opened he thine eyes? He answered them, I have told you already, and ye did not hear: wherefore would ye hear it again? will ye also be His disciples?
Then they reviled him, and said, Thou art his disciple; but we are Moses' disciples. We know that God spake unto Moses: as for this fellow, we know not from whence he is. The man answered and said unto them, Why herein is a marvellous thing, that ye know not from whence He is, and yet he hath opened mine eyes. Now we know that God heareth not sinners: but if any man be a worshipper of God, and doeth His will, him He heareth. Since the world began was it not heard that any man opened the eyes of one that was born blind. If this man were not of God, He could do nothing.
They answered and said unto him, Thou wast altogether born in sins, and dost thou teach us? And they CAST HIM OUT. Jesus heard that they had cast him out; and when he had found him, He said unto him, Dost thou believe on the Son of God? He answered and said, Who is he, Lord, that I might believe on him? And Jesus said unto him, Thou hast both seen Him, and it is He that talketh with thee. And he said, Lord, I believe. And he worshipped Him.
And Jesus said, For judgment I am come into this world, that they which see not might see; and that they which see might be made blind. And some of the Pharisees which were with him heard these words, and said unto Him, Are we blind also? Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth.
Hello Astrapho,
I just wanted to say, don't be surprised if the above passage happens with you, whether in your next encounter or another.
James 1:2-3 Consider it all joy, my brethren, when you encounter various trials, knowing that the testing of your faith produces endurance. :)
Keep the faith Astrapho,
Marques
-
Thanks for all the awesome advice! Especially Marques, I didn't even think of that passage until you brought it up. How marvellous!
"I have no interest in debating you. I appreciate that you are concerned about me but you can trust that I am right where God wants me to be. I am a student and not a teacher at this time."
Ahh yes, I told her a lot of times that I don't want to debate. But she is one of those hellers who sincerely does not want people to go to hell and therefore must preach to them until they accept, so she insists on talking to me (I managed to drag it till tomorrow). And she's one of my closest friends. So I don't really know what to do. Should I tell her the gospel (at the risk of turning teacher though I'm certainly not qualified)? Or should I tell her exactly what I quoted above (keeping my lamplight to myself)?
(It would be made so much easier if she would visit bible-truths.com, but she flatly refuses to go to "any other website that's contrary to my pastor's teachings". :()
In the meantime, time to roll up my sleeves and pray to be able to do more good works... :x
-
I think I'd ask her what she believes one must do to be saved. In that you agree-confess that Jesus is Lord. If you are a believer in Jesus as Lord, why must you agree with other church teachings? Ask her for the scripture that says one must believe in hell to be saved. Obviously there is none so what in the world is she so worried about you for? If you are a believer in Jesus as Lord, why must you agree with other church teachings?
I stick to this and repeat that you have no interest in debating the other things at this time. You're saved even by her standards so why is this such an issue for her?
-
"I have no interest in debating you. I appreciate that you are concerned about me but you can trust that I am right where God wants me to be. I am a student and not a teacher at this time."
Ahh yes, I told her a lot of times that I don't want to debate. But she is one of those hellers who sincerely does not want people to go to hell and therefore must preach to them until they accept, so she insists on talking to me (I managed to drag it till tomorrow). And she's one of my closest friends. So I don't really know what to do. Should I tell her the gospel (at the risk of turning teacher though I'm certainly not qualified)? Or should I tell her exactly what I quoted above (keeping my lamplight to myself)?
In the meantime, time to roll up my sleeves and pray to be able to do more good works... :x
I think Linny gave you good advice (as did everyone saying the same thing), and by saying what she told you to say, you would actually be shining your lamplight by avoiding a debate. Your lamplight is not what you say, it is what you do. I did not fully realize this until you started this thread, so I must thank you for that. Now these Scriptures makes a lot more sense to me.
Psa 119:105 NUN: Your Word is a lamp to my feet, and a light to my path.
Pro 6:23 For the commandment is a lamp; and the law is light; and reproofs of instruction are the way of life;
Pro 6:24 to keep you from the evil woman, from the flattery of the tongue of a strange woman (Babylon?).
Jesus is that light, He is our example on how to live, how to walk righteously in world of darkness, and people will notice what you do more than what you say, and quite possibly persecute you for the way you live through Christ. I think once a person begins living right by God, and repenting, then they will begin to talk right.
Joh 1:4 In Him was life, and the life was the light of men.
Joh 1:5 And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not overtake it.
Luk 1:79 to give light to those who sit in darkness and in the shadow of death, to guide our feet into the way of peace.
So let your lamplight shine and let them taste your salt by what you do, no need to hide it.
Mat 5:13 You are the salt of the earth, but if the salt loses its savor, with what shall it be salted? It is no longer good for anything, but to be thrown out and to be trodden underfoot by men.
Mat 5:14 You are the light of the world. A city that is set on a hill cannot be hidden.
Mat 5:15 Nor do men light a lamp and put it under the grain-measure, but on a lampstand. And it gives light to all who are in the house.
Mat 5:16 Let your light so shine before men that they may see your good works and glorify your Father who is in Heaven.
Luk 11:33 No one, when he has lighted a lamp, puts it in a secret place, or under a grain-measure, but on a lampstand, so that they who come in may see the light.
Luk 11:34 The light of the body is the eye. Therefore when your eye is sound, your whole body also is full of light. But when your eye is evil, your body also is full of darkness.
Luk 11:35 Therefore take heed that the light in you is not darkness.
Luk 11:36 Therefore if your whole body is full of light, having no part dark, the whole shall be full of light, as when the shining of a lamp enlightens you.
1Jn 1:5 And this is the message which we have heard from Him and declare to you, that God is light, and in Him is no darkness at all.
1Jn 1:6 If we say that we have fellowship with Him and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth.
1Jn 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.
Ray really knew what he was talking about when he said salt and light do not make noise.
You told your friend that you dont want to debate, so let your lamplight shine by not debating whether she likes it or not. Your lamplight through Christ IS your good works and not just what you say.
Sincerely hope this helps and encourages you, because you have helped me understand some things by your questions.
Peace, G.Driggs
-
(It would be made so much easier if she would visit bible-truths.com, but she flatly refuses to go to "any other website that's contrary to my pastor's teachings". :()[/u]
hi astrapho,
i highlighted the statement above, which your good friend has said to you, because it pretty much says it all. she is blinded by the teachings of her pastor, rather than desiring to know the teachings of her Saviour. bottom line is that she cannot force you to discuss or debate anything! don't let her intimidate you because she continues to try to force her beliefs on you. stand strong in the faith which God the Father has given to you. He will not leave you. EVER!
claudia
-
@Linny: She's a Oneness Pentecostal. You know, must be baptized in water, and "speak in tongues" to be saved. I haven't done the baptizing part, so she's been pressing me all year. Made up lots of excuses...
@G. Driggs: Wow! That is great stuff. I didn't really give it much thought before you pointed them out, I think I understand it better now as well. The part that stuck out the most:
Mat 5:15 Nor do men light a lamp and put it under the grain-measure, but on a lampstand. And it gives light to all who are in the house.
Mat 5:16 Let your light so shine before men that they may see your good works and glorify your Father who is in Heaven.
That's a world of pressure off my back. The better choice seems clear, I've decided to just not debate, and if possible, call off the little talk, because really, I'm not interested in her teachings. I pray and hope that her friendship is true and that we'll remain friends after this... (Her whole life revolves around her church. D: )
@Claudia: Yep, you got it, she intimidates me. D; But I guess I'll have nothing to fear if I just refuse to debate or anything. :9
Thanks everyone! I hope I'm not annoying anyone by asking so many little questions... :-[ But as always, very valuable advice.
-
Oh my gosh! Astrapho! The way your learn is by asking questions! Everyone has given you good words..and yes debating is not where it's at with your friend! You know you have our prayers..You don't need to debate! You just stand in what God has done for you! ;)
Kathy :-*
-
Oh my gosh.
Okay I just met her just now anyway.
We didn't end up debating, but I showed her lots of verses that contradicted with what she's been taught (I've got a notebook full of 'em) about free will and "Oneness" (Jesus is the Father). They "made her more confused", and she told me that I had very twisted theology. I replied with, "But I didn't even say anything, only gave you some verses.". The talk ended off with us playing games on her laptop and a light hearted chat to a mutual friend over msn. She told me to go to her pastor, and that "he'll clear up any questions you've got". I said no thanks. And thus endeth the saga.
Thanks for any prayers you guys made. :D I didn't exactly say nothing, but... I thought it ended well.
-
How very diplomatic! Well done for not criticising her Astrapho. A worthy example in deed.
I am delighted that this ended in playing games on her laptop and a light hearted chat to a mutual friend. How lovely.
Arc
-
"But I didn't even say anything, only gave you some verses."
Brilliant! You couldn't have done any better. :)
-
Astrapho! Good going, girl! In the end..you did it just right! You just learned something..you don't have to be anything but yourself!! If someone loves you they will let you be you! I'm glad it worked out this way! :D
Kathy ;)
-
Wow, that was thinking on your feet! Great response. I am so happy it worked out. And I also am proud of you for holding your tongue after her comment. Your light shined for sure!
Lin
-
here is a big virtual hug astrapho 8). i am so proud of you. isn't it just amazing how our Father gives us the words to speak when He has purposed it!
claudia
ps. i pray even now that your good friend's mind/heart will be filled with God's grace so that she can be shown, and see, the Truths that you have opened up to her.
-
@Ninny: Yeah, it was a great learning experience for me. ;D
Anyway we didn't talk anymore on God and stuff after that... But we remain very good friends. (She's organizing a camp for her church and I'm helping her a li'l bit with the ideas.) :D Things are back to normal.
Thanks for the invaluable advice and support, guys!! :D God bless you all. I pray that God will open her eyes as well. :)
-
"But I didn't even say anything, only gave you some verses."
Brilliant! You couldn't have done any better. :)
All smiles here.