=> General Discussions => Topic started by: Truth96130 on November 15, 2011, 04:05:08 AM

Title: Lake of fire question pleas.
Post by: Truth96130 on November 15, 2011, 04:05:08 AM
Rev. 20/14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death.

Death is the LOF and the LOF is death. How can death be cast into death/LOF? My explanation is- Notice that that (death) is thrown into the (second death) and not the (first death). There for we have 2 deaths. 1. Death. 2. The second death. Death is thrown into the second death.  How this is possible is not a problem. Death will be destroyed and the LOF is the second death. If all death is to be destroyed then the LOF would also be destroyed. If you have an answer to help me understand how death is cast into death other than my explanation pleas let me know. Peace.
Title: Re: Lake of fire question pleas.
Post by: Kat on November 15, 2011, 11:35:28 AM

This is from the Lake of fire series on Hell 'Hades and the Second Death,' it should help with this. --------------------

"And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God: and the books were opened, and another book was opened which is the books of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their WORKS" (Rev. 20:12).

"And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death" (Rev. 20:13-14).

When the "dead... stand," we are being presented with a resurrection from the dead. For this is exactly what resurrection means (anastasis in Greek means, "to stand up again"--See Strong's #386 translated 'resurrection'). It is in resurrection that "the dead... stand" before God. And yes, since we know Revelation is a book of spiritual symbols, we would be correct in stating that it is "the SPIRITUALLY dead" who are standing before God. Aspects of this Judgment:

[1] "the dead, small and great stand [resurrected] before God"

[2] they are judged according to the books, according to their works

[3] "the sea [the sea of wicked humanity] give up its [spiritually] dead"

[4] this includes "every man" [Gk: 'each one or 'every one' or 'every person']

[5] "death [the cause] and hell [the realm] are cast into the lake of fire"

[6] and those "not found in the Book of Life were cast into the Lake of Fire"

[7] this "Lake of Fire is the Second Death"
                                    THE SEVENTH MENTION OF HADES IS BY APOSTLE JOHN

7. "Death and hell [hades/unseen] delivered up the dead" (Rev. 20:13)
    "Death and hell [hades/unseen] were cast into lake of fire" (Verse 14)

And again we see "death and hell/hades" used together, just as Jesus did in Rev. 1:18. Why is this. If hades is the state or realm of the dead, why is this word linked with "death." Notice this instructive verse:

"Let death seize upon them, and let them go down quick into hell [sheol/hades]: for wickedness is in their dwellings, and among them" (Psalm 55:15).

Are not "death" that seizes them, and "sheol/hades" where they go down to, one and the same? No, they obviously are not. One, death, seizes upon them, and because of this death they have something else happen to them: they "go down quickly to sheol/hades." In other words, death, as the "act of or process of dying" brings them to the "state of the dead," which is sheol/hades, where there is no longer any consciousness, pain, joy, or "any thing" (Ecc. 9:5).

Seeing that "death seizes" upon them, we have proof that this "death" has not as yet made them to be dead, but it is seizing them, that is, it is the cause of their dying until they are dead. Death is the cause of their death, or death is what causes them to ultimately become dead, hence they then "go down quick into hell/hades," which is now the state of their caused death--they are in fact now dead.

This is precisely what God told Adam would happen if he ate the forbidden fruit:

"Yet from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, you are not to be eating from it, for in the day you eat from it, to die shall you be dying" (Gen. 2:17, Concordant Literal Old Testament).

Here is what our dictionaries tell us: "death, n. 1. the act of dying; the termination of life. 2. The state of being dead. 3. The cause of dying" (American Heritage College Dictionary). This is really important to remember. The word death denotes an ACT, STATE, & CAUSE. It will be nothing but confusion if we do not keep all three of these in mind when dealing with the abolition of "death."

All three of these definitions are true in actual fact. One is no more true than the others. So when God tells us that "the last enemy to be destroyed is DEATH" (I Cor. 15:26), it must include every and all aspects of what death really is. Death will no longer be the cause of anyone going through death in the act of dying, neither will there be any more dead people in the final state of death. But will Christians accept the abolition (or destruction) of the ACT of death, the CAUSE of death, and the STATE of death, as representing what Jesus Christ will, literally and spiritually "destroy?" No, of course not. How could they then continue hanging on to their hatred towards others with their torture in hell for all eternity for those they don't love, doctrine?

Death itself will be destroyed, or as the Concordant Version renders it: "the last enemy being abolished: death." (It is more likely to abolish something that is inanimate rather than to destroy it as the King James translates it).

So we have the act, the state, and the cause, all being the definition of "death." Hence all three must be abolished or there will yet remain some form of death which would then continue to be an eternal "enemy" in God's creation.

mercy, peace and love

Title: Re: Lake of fire question pleas.
Post by: Truth96130 on November 17, 2011, 07:45:13 PM
Thank you. That answered my question well. However that brings me to another question that I would be great full if you cold answer. From what I know the LOF is a judgment that will save those who are thrown into it. The devil and his angels are thrown into the LOF. Why would the devil be thrown into the LOF if the LOF is meant to save? Thank you. Peace.
Title: Re: Lake of fire question pleas.
Post by: cjwood on November 18, 2011, 01:34:28 AM

That's the good news.  All will be saved.  No one gets left out.  How cool is that?   8)

john, That is Way cool!   8)

Title: Re: Lake of fire question pleas.
Post by: Truth96130 on November 18, 2011, 04:14:37 AM
So the devil and his angels will be saved by the LOF? That sounds wonderful but is this Rays view also? Just wondering because if Ray (believes this also) he probably has some material on it I can read. Pleas let me know if you know. Thanks.  :D
Title: Re: Lake of fire question pleas.
Post by: Deborah-Leigh on November 18, 2011, 05:09:33 AM

 Satan Repent
on: May 13, 2006, 08:50:44 AM  


What do the scriptures say happen to the devil after the lake of fire? Are you therefore saying he will repent? Thanks

Dear Jeshua:

Of course Satan will repent. That is the purpose for the lake of fire. ALL will repent--both those in the heavens and those on the earth (Phil. 2:9-11, Eph. 1:10, etc., etc).

God be with you,

Title: Re: Lake of fire question pleas.
Post by: Truth96130 on November 18, 2011, 06:33:16 AM
Amazing! What a wonderful God we have to save everyone. After all, we are all from God and God is all powerfully. I was just asking these things because I yearn for the salvation of the lost. I desire that all creation, all beings, even my worst enemies be saved eventually. I yearn for my worst enemies to have there eyes unblinded one day.  I have believed that there has to be a way to save them all. There just has to be. With infinite power there is nothing too hard for God. If the Saints truly love there enemies (as we are commanded to do), surly they will desire and yearn for the salvation of all the lost and do all they can to open there eyes. Of course God is the one that will open there eyes. To love others with a love that thinks no evil and keeps no record of wrong is to love as God loves his creation. That is the love I seek to demonstrate. Now I know and believe every one including my enemies will eventually be saved. Thank you for the comments. Peace and love be too you all.
Title: Re: Lake of fire question pleas.
Post by: bpenelli on November 18, 2011, 10:16:56 AM
Amazing! What a wonderful God we have to save everyone.

Title: Re: Lake of fire question pleas.
Post by: Dave in Tenn on November 18, 2011, 02:18:32 PM
Eph 1:8  Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence;
Eph 1:9  Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:
Eph 1:10  That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:

God bless you, as He already has.
Title: Re: Lake of fire question pleas.
Post by: Truth96130 on November 26, 2011, 06:07:56 AM
If God will eventually save even the angels that sined then what about Hebrews 2/16
NKJV-For indeed He does not give aid to angels, but He does give aid to the seed of Abraham.
In the KJV it is-16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham. It sounds to me like the NKJV and the KJV are saying 2 different things. Anyone know how God will save the angels that sined if he dos not give them aid? Maybe the NKJV is not the correct translation. Maybe just because God did not come to give aid to angels dos not mean he never will give aid to angels. Any imput will be appreciated. Peace.
Title: Re: Lake of fire question pleas.
Post by: Truth96130 on November 26, 2011, 07:36:38 PM
I see thank you.
Title: Re: Lake of fire question pleas.
Post by: Deborah-Leigh on November 27, 2011, 07:02:48 AM
Hi Truth96130

When we come out of mainstream Christianity, some of the very first experiences we have with those we "leave behind" so to speak, is that they might try, try and try again, to get us to stay in their Church or their belief, or their fellowship. It is almost as if they were terrified that we are going to leave. It can appear that we should under all circumstances stay in the presumed safe confines of a Church community and at our peril, we leave, or are bluntly cast out, as is the painful experience with some of us!

As we come out of mainstream Christianity, it us usual that we have packed a bag of our favourite theologies or recipes for comfort that need be transformed into the real knowledge that our Comforter is the Spirit of Truth and not a man made doctrine.

Once we see the Truth and the Truth sets us free, it can become just like what happend to Jesus in the Scriptures about the pigs running of the ledge. The Tithe collecting institutions of man, don't primarily come to us afraid of loosing our humble tithe contributions. That might be the case with the millionaires of which I know of no none here in BTF~   We are just ordinary folks here.

So it is much more than that. When we learn and see the Truth, it seems as though members in mainstream Christianity, become afraid OF us which is veiled into the illusion of fear FOR us. Mainstream Christianity loves, worships, preaches and teaches Hell. 

They weren't afraid FOR Jesus and they are not afraid FOR anyone leaving the Church either and they are not trembling in their boots for the potential of loosing a nominal part of the Tithe. They are afraid OF Truth.

We all may have in common here in BTF the mutual experience of being rejected from out of our Church. We take the brunt of the fear and are rejected the minute the Light begins to shine in us as we start to see Truth and wake up out of the dark. We are persecuted when this happens and our comfortable Church fellowships turn to tell each other we are become demon possessed, lost or backslidden. It is not so much about finances. It is about possession. Man made institutions of man want to own you, Lord it over you and have you bow to them, body, soul and tithe.

With Ray Smith, the power of the Light of Truth is so bright through his teachings, that when Ray was invited to appear on a TV presentation together with some highly esteemed Church leaders, each one, and all of the leaders declined to appear on the program when they heard Ray was to join in the discussion. Their fear had turned to hate and such condition of derision against Ray is very clearly shown in the letters he receives from those who fear Truth.

This is not written to sound high or holy for we all have fallen short of the Glory of God. It is part of the process of God bringing all to salvation.

So we are all here to grow in the Truth of the expounded word of God as presented in Rays teachings. As we grow we become better equipped to accept that village folks don't like us, will stone us, will crucify us and condemn us, they will persecute and punish us and all this is because their  FEAR  of us, not for us. They FEAR the LIGHT of Truth that is Christ in us.

This is not to say we are better than anyone or higher in the esteem of God for His Children. We are all in the process of being made into the Image of Christ the One Son of God. All will be elect finally when God is all in all.

Like Jesus, the folks who knew of the pigs running amok, didn't ask Jesus to leave the village for loss of finances. They asked Him to leave because they were AFRAID of Him.

Here in the Forum, we suffer together the distinction of our own family members being aloof to our cherished understandings, and even our best friends leave us and depart from us. Even if we unite for a cup of tea or a rare social occasion, the glazed eye glossed over look that tolerates our passion and our love, is made clear in our gatherings where we are not accepted. We are quite practised in the exhortations to pay attention to the words and in this case the attention is in the absence of the word "finance", is conspicuously absent, as the Scriptural  reason why Jesus, was asked to leave. 

So enjoy your happy passage out of Babylon into the Glorious Liberating Light of Truth and Joy. 

Welcome to the Forum Truth 96130 ~

Title: Re: Lake of fire question pleas.
Post by: cheekie3 on November 27, 2011, 09:19:38 AM
Bible Truths Forum Members -

Has Ray ever taught about what Satan know today, etc, - like:

1. Does Satan believe he will be saved.
2. Does Satan see the "Hand of God" on His Called and Chosen Elect.
3. Satan cannot believe that God will save him otherwise he will stop being the Adversary.

Just curious, that's all.

Regards, George.
Title: Re: Lake of fire question pleas.
Post by: Kat on November 27, 2011, 12:23:44 PM

Hi George,

I do not believe that Satan knows what is ahead and certainly not for himself, because he does not know the truth.

John 8:44  `Ye are of a father--the devil, and the desires of your father ye will to do; he was a man-slayer from the beginning, and in the truth he hath not stood, because there is no truth in him; when one may speak the falsehood, of his own he speaketh, because he is a liar--also his father. (YLT)

He has "no truth in him," and therefore would not believe or probably even understand God's plan of salvation and could not preceive that he would eventually be saved. He is a lair and the deceiver of the world and I think he is totally decieved.

Rev 12:9  And the great dragon was cast out, the old serpent called Devil, and Satan, who deceives the whole world. He was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

mercy, peace and love