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=> General Discussions => Topic started by: ara on February 25, 2007, 10:22:30 PM
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a former neighbor dropped by the other night, asking for money, for medication of her child who was supposedly bitten by a dog.
as i was talking to her,my recall of her when we were still neighbors, her family was already borrowing money from our neighbors, without being paid up to now. the husband was jobless,they have 3 children, the wife is also jobless. we tried to shared a little what ever we had, but seeing them doing nothing to earn a living, we were discouraged to continue doing so. seeing her again now, made me think is she fooling me again, with hesitation i gave her a little money, bacause i remember we have to love our enemy, but deep inside, i hate her for being lazy. is this love?
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I am fairly new to this forum so I say this with hesitation.... I believe once we find out we are being used then the loving thing would be to help them in some way like buy them a few groceries.
I would not give them money though.
I really don't know for sure if I am correct on this.
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a former neighbor dropped by the other night, asking for money, for medication of her child who was supposedly bitten by a dog.
as i was talking to her,my recall of her when we were still neighbors, her family was already borrowing money from our neighbors, without being paid up to now. the husband was jobless,they have 3 children, the wife is also jobless. we tried to shared a little what ever we had, but seeing them doing nothing to earn a living, we were discouraged to continue doing so. seeing her again now, made me think is she fooling me again, with hesitation i gave her a little money, bacause i remember we have to love our enemy, but deep inside, i hate her for being lazy. is this love?
My initial feeling is that in this situation it is best to love people at a distance. Love them because we are commanded to love; but don't keep them as company. They will only bring you down. Some people this side of heaven you'll never get along with. This is life. It is a hard thing to continually feel that you are being taken advantage of. Nobody likes that feeling. Nobody wants it to happen. You ask "is this love?". Well, it is only love if you are compelled to do so without giving a second thought about the decision you made. Giving is wonderful. But if your giving is done grudgingly and with remorse (or even worse, hate) then it is not love. You regret giving this person(s) aid because they apparently lack the means or the desire to acquire what they need for themselves. If you want to give in love...then give. Don't regret doing it. Embrace it. Give God thanks that He gave you the resources so that you can give. Afterall, Jesus said that it is what we do in secret is what God will use to bless us openly. If you are not at that level of faith as yet don't despair. God will give you what you need, when you need it, in his timing. In the meantime, pray about the situation and let God do what God does best...meet your needs.
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To All,
Well in our experience we do not give out money. We would rather give out things that they need as in gas or a bus ticket. In lubbock one has to be careful of being swindled. I do not think there is anything wrong with what you said Jackie Lee.
And secondly, one should never give it if will put their own family in jeopardy. I know since having our precious son, we do not give out any money or things of that nature, becuase to do that, would be to take money away from our son and our family.
Sincerely,
Anne C. McGuire
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I kinda learned the hard way, I now just give to family and donate to organizations like Rescue missions.
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I too have learned the hard way after being bunrt too many times. I now just give out of my abundance (after our familys' needs are met.) I no longer sacrifice the things that my family needs in order to bless someone else first. I used to do that and then my family would end up having hard times. I will give (offerings) as I am prompted to; and usually it is not money that I give to others, although there have been times that I have, but, I buy them a meal, loan them something, give them of my time, give them rides, buy them gas, buy them groceries, I have even given out over the counter meds if they can't afford to get some themselves, give them a place to stay for awhile instead of giving them hotel money, and if I cnanot help, I lead them to someone who can help them, I help out where and when I am needed etc... Too often I find that if you do give cash money, they will use it on something other than what they requested the money for (like drugs, alcohol, cigs. etc..) There have been times when sonmeone would come and ask me for a few dollars to buy a meal and I would tell them that I didn't have the cash, but let me buy one on my debit card and they would refuse it, unfortunately, you have to be aware of the schemes that they will employ on you! On the otherhand, I have been called all kinds of names by people/especially family members for not codepending them by loaning them money to buy booze, cigs, lottery tickets, bingo, etc...
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Susan,
Ahhh therein lies the sadness. Most of the people who need a helping hand are employed and are working to make ends meet. It are those people that are shortchanged becuase they really need the help, but suffer at the hands of those who only want help to get ciggies and booze and stuff like that.
What I mean to say, it is becuase of the negative images of users and those who are taking advantage of everyone the ones who sincerely need help suffer. For example, suppose you have a family, both employed, and have 3 kids. Suppose 2 out of 3 kids got sick, and the family knows it is going to be hard to even pay the bills for the next month. Well, then the 3rd kid gets sick. Now the government will not help them becuase of their income level. So where do they turn?
Sincerely,
Anne C. McGuire
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Sorry ya'll, I have a somewhat different point of view. I think if someone asks me for something I give it. Jesus said "if they ask for your cloak give them your shirt too" or something like that. Even so, if I do as God leads me too and someone is taking advantage of me that is betweeen them and God. I've done what God wanted me to do. I have been taken advantage of but I don't really think about it that much.Jennie
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I believe we are always to help even if they have stolen from us -- just help wisely. Immediately ask which pharmacy they use and go pay directly for the meds. The children shouldn't pay for the mistakes of the adults.
Luk 6:29 And unto him that smiteth thee on the one cheek offer also the other; and him that taketh away thy cloak forbid not to take thy coat also.
There are many, many ways to give that don't involve handing cash out to adults. I pretty much assume that the adults asking for cash are methheads myself but then I remember the words of Christ. Help the kids no matter what and let God sort out the rest.
Part of our faith is knowing that God will sort it all out for us. I thinking that "loving" is truly the hardest part of Christ's commandments and something we all struggle with.
Jennie, I just saw your post. I agree with ya :)
carol v
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Matthew 5:39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to hem the other also.
v. 40 and if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloak also.
v. 41 And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain.
v. 42 Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away.
v. 43 Ye have heard that it hath been said. THOU SHALT LOVE THY NEIGHBOR, and hate thine enemy.
v. 44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you.
v. 45 That you may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
v. 46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not the publicans the same?
v. 47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do you more than others? do not even the publicans so?
v. 48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
Iris
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Interesting posts thanks for the insight I see what you are saying.
I believe I may have become a little hardened and I agree we should help.
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A good exercise may be to study Ray's biblical and scriptural teaching on love.
What is my motive when I give? Is it because I feel sympathy, do I feel I can help by giving, or do I question the person begging to find out why they are in such a state?
Once a beggar with a small dirty, runny nosed baby came for money at the foot of the steps of the Church I was once a member of. I rebuked her for her unclean soiled child and told her to wash her baby in the river that ran to the one side of the Church. The following number of weeks I did not see her. Then one day she came to me again with her child. She told me she had got a job and was very happy that I had rebuked her. So was I!
My motive that day was horror that a human being could use a child to invoke sympathy and use that emotion to extort money as a means for a living. What a horrible future for such a child. I was furious!
Other beggars who are quite hopeless have come to me for help and I have since found out that they are expereincing a rebellious spirit because they actually come from wealthy and well to do homes but they simply LIKE to be beggars! They LIKE to drink and they LIKE to be down and out......We know that God gives us all a weak heart and makes it strong through adversity and the evil we experience. I know that such evil, I can not erase if it is God's plan for that soul to be raised up in endurance and finally wisdom through suffering. It hurts me that there are so many that God is moulding into His image and likeness that are taking their shape through accute pain and suffering but that is my cross I bear. I trust God knows what He is doing and that He is showing me what He is doing sometimes, is a privilage and His means to bring me into His image and likeness too. I do not turn away from beggars. I ask. I question and I enquire after them. I am appauled at the dark dungeons of the mind and soul that these people that are broken yet unwilling to change, are trapped in.
I was trapped once in a 10 year clinical depression. Nothing helped me. At one time I could not physically move it was so bad. I got help because I did not want to die and neither did God design for me to die. He authored my pain and my recovery!
The world will get worse not better. I am at peace with that. We all have to turn to God if we want anything to get better. We have to seek Him and ask Him and emplore His Mercy, Blessing and Unmeritted Favor. A beggar will turn to man and a child of God will turn to their Father God. That is the difference. We are not God. God is God. We are here to know Him and learn to love Him and love as He loves. Read Ray's teaching if you have not done so already....God willing, it will help.....
Peace to you
Arcturus :)
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Sorry ya'll, I have a somewhat different point of view. I think if someone asks me for something I give it. Jesus said "if they ask for your cloak give them your shirt too" or something like that. Even so, if I do as God leads me too and someone is taking advantage of me that is betweeen them and God. I've done what God wanted me to do. I have been taken advantage of but I don't really think about it that much.Jennie
Right on Jennie! If someone takes your kindness for weakness then it truly is a matter that they will have to take up with God. Just do as God leads and all will be well.
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Now sometimes isn't it better not to give?
I was giving to my addicted sister a few years back.
I refused to believe she had a drug problem, I borrowed on my credit cards helped her with an apartment bought her groceries.
This went on for almost a year.
The only thing that came out of that was my husband and I was deeper in debt.
The more I gave the more she wanted.
It was sad and bothered me when I had to say no more but it was affecting every aspect of my life.
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JackieLee, it is particularly hard to know what to do when its family and not strangers.
Some people God blessed w/ sweet, loving natures. Others (of us) have to really work at showing Gods love to people-it doesn't come natural. There are heathens by the millions that do plenty of loving, volunteer work and really live a sacrificial life.
When living close to God, in His Word, obeying what you can, praying, then He gives you the opportunity to help others or He leads you to not help-each situation is different. We often go by past experience, common sense, or that strong leading we get from Him (if we are listening). Sometimes isn't it just a matter of how much $$ you have at the time.
But wanting to help, living to help, developing a giving heart, all takes time & energy, and it won't happen if God isn't teaching you. Maybe we need to see idols in our heart to learn some things.
We've all been stung and we've all been blessed. Its all HIM.
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It is my belief that it is better to not give money to addicted ones. I have always felt that I would be judged for codepending those whom have a weakness for drugs instead of showing them tough love by not giving them money. Right now there is a freind in our life; a strong believer, but, he is so addicted to RX drugs (prescription drugs) as well as to narcotics issued tohim for his back pain...he has had a couple of back surguries an he cannot kick the habit from the drugs; although he has a a long history of drug abuse. He says that he needs it for the pain relief and he goes on a drinking binge every now and again as well, but, he says that God will heal him when God is ready to since he has done all that he can within himself to quit on his own and has failed. I am still leary of his reasoning for some reason. Lord forgive me if I am sounding judgemental and hard hearted toward him, but I just care about him to where I won' t help him to indulge himself and possibly hurt himself further. We have had to separate ourselves from him b/c we don't like the attitude that he has while under the influence. God calls it witchcraft, anything that alters the mind ???
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It is my belief that it is better to not give money to addicted ones. I have always felt that I would be judged for codepending those whom have a weakness for drugs instead of showing him tough love by not giving them money. Right now there is a freind in our life; a strong believer, but, he is so addicted to RX drugs (prescription drugs) as well as to narcotics issued tohim for his back pain...he has had a couple of back surguries an he cannot kick the habit from the drugs. He says that he needs it for the pain relief and he goes on a drinking binge every now and again, but, he says that God will heal him when God is ready to since he has done all that he can within himself to quit on his own and has failed. I am still leary of his reasoning for some reason. Lord forgive me if I am sounding judgemental and hard hearted toward him, but I just care about him to where I won' t help him to indulge himself and possibly hurt himself further.
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JackieLee, it is particularly hard to know what to do when its family and not strangers.
Some people God blessed w/ sweet, loving natures. Others (of us) have to really work at showing Gods love to people-it doesn't come natural. There are heathens by the millions that do plenty of loving, volunteer work and really live a sacrificial life.
When living close to God, in His Word, obeying what you can, praying, then He gives you the opportunity to help others or He leads you to not help-each situation is different. We often go by past experience, common sense, or that strong leading we get from Him (if we are listening). Sometimes isn't it just a matter of how much $$ you have at the time.
But wanting to help, living to help, developing a giving heart, all takes time & energy, and it won't happen if God isn't teaching you. Maybe we need to see idols in our heart to learn some things.
We've all been stung and we've all been blessed. Its all HIM.
gmik I agree there are times now I would like to help a couple of people in my family but my husband is against it.
My mother is up in years and if she needs I help her.
My husband will say so and so is able bodied to work and needs to stick with a job, which is true but I can't help but feel sorry for them if they are in need.
My husband is against helping others.
My husband and I combine our income so it is hard to slip anything past him, not that I should really.
I have to say it makes me sad to see people in need but my husband says it is their fault, he is probably right.
I am learning to listen to God and try not let my emotions rule me like they have.
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It is my belief that it is better to not give money to addicted ones. I have always felt that I would be judged for codepending those whom have a weakness for drugs instead of showing him tough love by not giving them money. Right now there is a freind in our life; a strong believer, but, he is so addicted to RX drugs (prescription drugs) as well as to narcotics issued tohim for his back pain...he has had a couple of back surguries an he cannot kick the habit from the drugs. He says that he needs it for the pain relief and he goes on a drinking binge every now and again, but, he says that God will heal him when God is ready to since he has done all that he can within himself to quit on his own and has failed. I am still leary of his reasoning for some reason. Lord forgive me if I am sounding judgemental and hard hearted toward him, but I just care about him to where I won' t help him to indulge himself and possibly hurt himself further.
I do agree with you when my sister was on drugs it was so obvious to everyone but me.
I now refuse to give money to her and so does my husband now.
The bad thing is he thinks after this experience we shouldn't help no one.
He believes if someone is hungry it is their fault, I haven't gotten to that point.
Not that we can help a large amount but I always want too fix things.
I believe this is one of my weaknesses and God is helping me.
It is a control issue with me I want to fix people and God showed me I needed fixing.
That was an eye opener for me.
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Hi Everyone :)
Christ's Second Commandment is to Love your neighbor as yourself. Is this not the same as loving your neighbor as God loves us? I think it is. :)
And similarly we may ask God for what we want instead of what we need and be ignored by our loving Father; however, he will always give us what we truly need. I was really moved by Arcturus's story about telling the young mother to wash herself and her baby, to clean up. This is most certainly not what she was wanting, but invariably what she needed and the love what Arcturus showed should be as an example for us all.
Loving our neighbor does not necessarily mean being "lovey dovey" to each other; rather it is the helping and of a true friend. :)
We too, do not hand out money; rather we give food, clothing etc. Sometimes, all that is really needed is a warm, gentle smile. I know such as this has made my day on more than one occasion.
Great discussion! :)
Darren
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...and then there is the couple that is in cahoots together to try and get as much freebies off of other people's sympathies as they can possibly get (without having to work for it or to repay it;) they want it all donated in the name of love and brotherly sacrifice; and yet, they never have enough! (She is a very educated leader in the community and he cannot hold a job, both are well known too. They do fundraisers for all kinds of reasons (to give to the poor, housefire victims, community food bank, they even sell things that they made up on their computer and have fundraisers to sell their item, while telling everyone that the proceeds go to the so and so agency...etc...), but we know for a fact that they are keeping things from these fundraisers for themselves, that were given for others who are less fortunate to have. I wouldn't have known this, but, I assisted in some of these fundraisers along wth this couple and heard their snide remarks; and once I saw their oldest child wearing a distinct article of clothing that I had donated to the fire victim family...obvioulsy it never arrived to the fire victims. She lied as to why he had the clothing on. :-\
Then, I was at their home and it was the most filthy and stinking place (cat feces all over the bedroom floor AND ON the nearly ceiling high (not exagerating) piles of clothing in that same parents bedroom.) They have 4 computers and no running water b/c not enough money to replace the old pipes!!! Yet four kids and the parents that smell unbearable always, but are too active in community events (head knowledge) to take care of their most basic of needs. There is no excuse here! He stays at home and plays Mr.Mom while she is pregnant with their # 4 child and she can't even take care of the 1 yr old whom has never walked yet and who stays seated in a baby walker with a tshirt and no socks on still!. (He cuaght RSV and was hospitalised b/c they refused to cover the baby up and dress him in socks during the winter as well as much clothing (diaper and a summertime onesie only) for the little guy! Neglected big time! But, their excuse...well he will just kick off the socks and clothing b/c he is too hot natured. Plus, there are churches whom bring boxes of xmas presents and whole cases of food for them to have a holiday with. Others give them good will items to help them out...Or she will recruit items for a poor family and she will keep the stuff herself and then have a big gargae sale and then keep the money for herself. They will sell donated items b/c she doesn't have gas money or food money to get by.
I say all of this to get you to see that there are extremes in people whom are needy. (There is no shame in being poor, but there is shame in being lazy and unclean.) So just be careful and be a fruit inspector before you give just b/c there is a need. Some peole are just plain old LAZY AND DON'T CARE ABOUT ANYONE BUT THEMSELVES; AND THEY DON;T CARE WHAT OTHERS THINK OF THEM INTHE LEAST. ;)
I know that God has to get their attention before they will come to their senses!
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Susan,
That is so sad that post that you posted. Today my precious one did something cute. I will post it in another thread.
Thanks for sharing.
Sincerely,
Anne C. McGuire
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As most of ya'll know we have what we call a "free market" at church for back to school and for the holidays. There is a lady who goes around to yard sales and stuff to buy things to re-sale. she has come to the free market we do. The people in our church either buy up stuff or give money to some ladies in our gathering who love to shop(not me, I hate it!) to buy things for us to have on hand. Some of us, like me, make things for the free market as well. It is kind of hard to swallow that this yard sale lady who has come to the free market gets things. That will be something she will have to answer for. One of the ladies in our church had a hissy fit over it though. Michael talked to her about it and asked the question of her about if she thought we as a group were doing this free market was pleasing to God. she said yes and he told her that if anyone took advantage that God would work it all out and that all we are called upon to do is what we believe God wants us to . As long as we do that we are okay and the other will be a matter between anyone taking advantage and God.
I agree with many who have spoken up.... if you KNOW someone is going to buy drugs or what have you, harmful stuff, we shouldn't deal in cash. Jennie
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Sorry ya'll, I have a somewhat different point of view. I think if someone asks me for something I give it. Jesus said "if they ask for your cloak give them your shirt too" or something like that. Even so, if I do as God leads me too and someone is taking advantage of me that is betweeen them and God. I've done what God wanted me to do. I have been taken advantage of but I don't really think about it that much.Jennie
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But we can't take a verse in isolation like that. All scripture is connected to each other like a spiders web.
God commands us to use wisdom. If I came up to you and asked you for your savings or your car would you give it to me? If you isolate the verses you quoted you would have to. If we are taken advantage of many times it is our own fault. Just my 2 cents.
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You sound wise mrsnacks! Is it Mr Snacks or Mrs Nacks? LOL :D It's good to have you here! Welcome! :)
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It's Mr. Snacks.
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Paula,
GREAT MINDS DO THINK ALIKE! And I thank God for this fellowship everyday.
Peace, Lisa
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I believe this all comes back to praying for the gift of discernment, like Solomon did, pleasing the Lord immensely.
Giving money to someone you know wants to spend it on intoxicants is not real love, it is taking the path of least resistance, if that same person is hungry we should feed them or if they were cold we should give them clothes but not money.
It would not be love to allow our young child to play in a busy street just because they want to, or give them a book of matches so they had something to play with.
Giving good council or advice (even if they are not receptive) or quietly listening to them and then giving a word of encouragement may not produce immediate results but just may be a catalyst down the road when they remember your words, kindness & unselfishness.
On the other side of the coin I have often seen that one of the quickest ways to lose a family member's companionship or someone's friendship is to loan them or give them money, often it only breeds resentment from the recipient toward the giver.
It seems that more attention should be given to the reason someone is not able to provide for themself not for the quick fix of temporary relief from a chronic behavior (if that be the case).
1Ki 3:9 Give therefore thy servant an understanding heart to judge thy people, that I may discern between good and bad: for who is able to judge this thy so great a people?
1Ki 3:10 And the speech pleased the Lord, that Solomon had asked this thing.
1Ki 3:11 And God said unto him, Because thou hast asked this thing, and hast not asked for thyself long life; neither hast asked riches for thyself, nor hast asked the life of thine enemies; but hast asked for thyself understanding to discern judgment;
His Peace to you,
Joe
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Hello Susan
You wrote something that struck me the second time I read your post. Wealthy in material riches also describes what you wrote about poor in material riches persons!....don't you think? You wrote : So just be careful and be a fruit inspector before you give just b/c there is a need. Some peole are just plain old LAZY AND DON'T CARE ABOUT ANYONE BUT THEMSELVES; AND THEY DON;T CARE WHAT OTHERS THINK OF THEM INTHE LEAST.
Our giving is not only in material ways but it is in attention giving. Listening and giveing considertion perhaps where we shouldn't. Like Jesus said to Peter....get thee behind me Satan......because Peter was minding the things of man Jesus rebuked him and rightly so I believe! :D
At second glance your words made me see that they are equally applicable. Thank you for sharing your wise thoughts.
Peace to you
Arcturus :)
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I have to respond to this thread. If it gets me thrown out .. so be it. It is kind of funny that someone asked earlier if we would give a vehicle if someone asked for it or needed it. We have had a couple of situations where we had no finances to help someone else out and decided that we would give one of our cars up and just share one. As it turned out, God stepped in and made another way. I say this not to be boastful but just to answer the question,
Joe, I think you wrote something about finding out what put someone in a needful place. We try very hard to do that and I can't tell you how many people Michael has helped find work so that they won't be dependent on charity. That is the best we know how to do. Whether anyone agrees or not, we believe we are following what God has set out for us to do. Jennie
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Joe, I think you wrote something about finding out what put someone in a needful place. We try very hard to do that and I can't tell you how many people Michael has helped find work so that they won't be dependent on charity. That is the best we know how to do. Whether anyone agrees or not, we believe we are following what God has set out for us to do. Jennie
Hi Jennie,
How or why would anyone not agree that helping to make a person "self sufficient" is a very godly thing to do? People usually find themselves in a needful place usually through a series of actions not because of one calamity or disaster, of course (as you well know from personal experience) disasters do happen but if we have a strong foundation it won't all be blown away and it is much easier to rebuild.
The best way to help a brother of sister is to see how they got where they are and help them get to higher ground.
His Peace to you Sister,
Joe
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One day, years ago, my husband brought home a hitch hiker he picked up. We had 3 children under 5 and I was a stay at home mom. He stayed w/ us several days. We found him a car, contacted a church near the town he was from, got leads for a job, got him a haircut...you know we took care of him.
Thats not the whole story.
I WAS MAD AS A SKUNK!!!!!! I couldn't sleep. I knew he was going to kill us in our beds. How could my husband be such a jerk. He goes to work and leaves me & the kids all day long alone!!!! I secretly called a single guy at church to see if he would take him. Yes he would. I was so excited, but NOOOOOO, hubby wouldn't hear of it. I was going to leave him no divorce him. Then I did the ultimate....I CALLED HIS MOMMY!!!!!
My mother in law nearly crawled thru the phone she was so upset and she chewed him out so he finally took the guy to tht single guys till we got him on his way.
Then I went thru the guilt of "gee, what a terrible christian I am" et etc. It took years to realize that I had some valid points. My husband thought he heard the Lord to pick him up. The guy turned out to be harmless. We did help him out and a lot of people got to bless him too. But wisdom ? 3 small children, a wildly gorgeous wife ( :D), 5 acres out in the country, no you don't bring home a hitch hiker!!!!! Thank God for His Grace!
All situations are different. Maturity helps when you "think" you hear from the Lord. Common sense helps too. We have given money, loaned money, tithed money, thrown good money after bad and just chalked it all up to --we are trying to walk in love and help a brother out.
All part of the journey.
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Thank you Arcturus! yes, it does take wisdom and deiscernment before you act on helping anyone.
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There is nothing wrong in giving someone a hand up not a hand out or a fishing rod and not the fish! ;D
Peace to you
Arcturus :)
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Oh Gena,
That would be a scary situation to pick up a hitch hiker and have him stay with you when you had children. I liked the way you handled it though! You are a pretty funny story teller. Please share more of your stories with us- in the future. I enjoyed that!
Come to think of it we have taken a family into our home, that we didn't know, who were just passing through town and came to our church looking for a place to stay. They stayed with us for about a week when the elders of the church came to us and encouraged us to kick them out. I finally came up with an excuse that they had to leave when it looked like they were settling in. My husband was mad at the elders for sticking their noses into our business but I was a nervous wreck because it seemed like they were taking advantage of our hospitality and not doing anything to help out or keep the place clean. (There were things my husband needed help with but the man refused to help and the lady wouldn't even wash a dish.)
I think we need to use discernment when helping someone out because sometimes our help isn't help it's enabling.
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This has always been a tough one to figure out for me. I think everybody here has some valid points, regardless of their stance.
It is hard in this world when sadly most of the time most people WILL take advantage of a giving person. I feel like there have been times when I've not been appreciative when someone has helped me, or that I even used the blessing wisely. Most of the time, not even meaning to, but truth be told I know I am not innocent in having taken advantage of some kind hearts. So I guess, I can say I've been on both ends.
Before we had children my husband and I took in a childhood friend of my brother's, who I also loved dearly. He was a heroine addict and we did everything to try and help him but he continued to use, steal from us etc etc. Oh, he would cry and break down and swear he was so sorry, and would never do it again, and that really made it hard for me to put him out on the streets. I was so scared something awful would happen to him. My husband thought I was a sucker but I would get so upset that he would let him stay.
So he eventually ended up in jail and when he got out he came back to live with us and the same horrible cycle started all over again. Eventually my husband had enough and told him he needed to go.
Thankfully, from what I understand he finally got his act together several years later and is living a clean life. Did my husband and I make any difference in his life? I have no idea, but I would do it again, even knowing what a struggle it was.
But to this day, I still pine after a favorite lamp of mine which my parents bought me, that he stole and pawned. How crazy is that? Talk about not being able to let go of the past. After all the emotional ups and downs I still think about that stupid lamp when I think of him. It's laughable! It's like the lamp symbolizes something I thought was MINE and DEAR to me and somebody STOLE it...it was out of my control. But God has been teaching me that NOTHING is really mine, but belongs to Him who gave it. And God controls it all, so I'm thankful for the blessings and am learning not to worry about the past or the future and who's doing what to whom.
As for how to really love our neighbour as we love ourselves.....most days I haven't a clue as to what that actually means! Got to start studying Ray's material on this subject!
God Bless,
Diana
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I like what Arcturus said, one of my favorite sayings is;
Give a kid a fish, and he has a meal~
Teach a kid to fish, and he eats for a lifetime.
Peace, Lisa
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but deep inside, i hate her for being lazy. is this love?
I believe I'm learning how not to try to figure out the dynamics behind other folks saga's and living arrangements or whatever else when it comes to loving like Christ or rather allowing Christ through Holy Spirit to love through me. Sometimes loving may be not giving, if you're being led by the Holy Spirit. What does the verse say in Matthew 7:6? Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.
Be led by the Holy Spirit (St John 16:13), and not religion, political correctness, expectation of others. Proverbs 20:27 - The spirit (heart) of man (I think this means mankind or humankind) is the candle of the LORD, searching all the inward parts of the belly. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but I think this means Holy Spirit uses your spirit as a candle to guide, lead, and direct you. I don't want to go off too much, but read THE BIBLE and some of Rays teachings.
We need guidance of Holy Spirit cause everything is spiritual (Ephesians 6:12, Hebrews 11:3).
Now don't get me in trouble here. I'm bout to get carried away.
In Christ,
Bev
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I like what somebody said:
Give a kid a fish, and he has a meal~
Teach a kid to fish, and he eats for a lifetime.
And who better to learn from than the master fishermen (Luke 5:4-8)?
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As far as discretion (exercising good judgment), we need guidance of Holy Spirit.
We need guidance of Holy Spirit cause everything is spiritual (Ephesians 6:12, Hebrews 11:3).
Who said in John 8:15 - Ye judge after the flesh; I judge no man? I know HE went on to say John 8:16 - And yet if I judge, my judgment is true: for I am not alone, but I and the Father that sent me.
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Hello Diana
You wrote : But God has been teaching me that NOTHING is really mine, but belongs to Him who gave it. And God controls it all, so I'm thankful for the blessings and am learning not to worry about the past or the future and who's doing what to whom.
I have been going through years of training towards this lesson you crystallise. I have everything but nothing! I have blessings but no control over the blessor! ;D He has kept me and blessed me while at the same time He has shown me uncertainty and how HE is stable in volatility. HE is unchanging and that He is my anchor that He drags me towards. He shows me future possibilities that change in a snap teaching me not to attach myself to externals or to establish in my mind that my well being is externally orientated on things but is more productively in Him where my certainty and happiness is founded in the originator and maker of things and designer of my life, author and finisher of my faith.
Peace to you
Arcturus :)
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Guys,
I have a family member whom I went out on a limb FOR HIM and took him in and ended up having to pawn my stuff just to help him to get on his feet from being hooked on drugs for over 25 yrs.!) (I literally had spent well over 10 grand on him and had helped to save his life on several occassions. This last summer he calls me on his death bed and asks me to help him; no problem, anything to help family! ) I asked for nothing in return ever. And yet the ONE TIME THATI had to borrow 50 dollars from him (in order to get caught up on an electric bill) since I was behind on bills DUE TO HELPING HIM OUT!
Well, low and behold, he has written me off since I borrowed that $50.00 from him.
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I meant to add to my post that scripture (JOHN 18) that speaks of a person whom was given alot of help from others whom had asked for nothing in return, and then when someone owed a small minute amount to him, (compared to how much he had been given for all of that time..._ well, he had NO mercy and NO forgiveness on the debtor and yet look at all of the mercy that he had been given for so many years!!!
Amazing, truly amazing!!! :-\ :'(
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It seems that a great deal of this thread shows just how the world works. People get upset over money, things, etc. Please don't take that as a criticism as I am right there too. When my Daddy died he left me with about $80,000.00 worth of medical bills to try to figure out how to get paid.I gave him my word that I would make sure the bills were paid off. Back in my Daddy's wild days, he had a son with another woman. This son has fathered 8 kids of his own with 5 different women, been to prison 3 times and is hooked on meth. He called me up after the funeral demanding his part of his inheritance! I told him he was welcome to his part of getting Daddy's bills paid ... the inheritance was the bills! He told me if I didn't get him some money he would break into my home and steal everything. It's not too Christ-like, but I told him to bring it because I had a 12 gauge with his name on it and that I would blow him straight to___________ without blinking an eye. Real loving of me, huh!?!
Point being if we could or maybe would conciously put others before ourselves the world would be different. If we were willing to be "Jesus with skin on" I wonder what it would be like ? Now before anybody jumps on me ... I don't mean somebody like my half-bro. who only wanted his drug money. He doesn't even have his kids( thank goodness they don't even know him) !
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Hey Jennie,
Glad to have you back and I was wondering where you went.
Peace, Lisa
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Jennie I know it isn't funny what you shared, but I sure did get a chuckle when I thought of you w/ a 12 gauge...... ;)
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Yep Jennie I totally agree with where you were coming from w/ your brother; I have to agree with Gena, it was funny! ;)
I guess though we just won't get to know that great world of putting others first until we all have received our new spiritual bodies...It will be a great day indeed!
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Hi all
um! I just wanna say um!, Doesnt GOD say "Do unto others as you would want Done unto yourself"? well sumfing like that n e way lol!
muchLOVE!! Pera
ps. I Love! dis Forum room fingy lol,! THANK YOU LORD!
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Hi all
um! I just wanna say um!, Doesnt GOD say "Do unto others as you would want Done unto yourself"? well sumfing like that n e way lol!
muchLOVE!! Pera
ps. I Love! dis Forum room fingy lol,! THANK YOU LORD!
Yes, Pera, thank you for the reminder...we are to do unto others....
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Hi all,
Sumthing else has just cum to me, it could be an Angel! U turn away, Im sure JESUS says sumfing like this doesnt He?. So Id say itl pay to all! as much as U can, Thanks all muchLOVE!! Pera
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opps!! correction lol!!
it Will Pay to HELP !all others as much as GOD permits U to, BLESS U alL!!
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Yeah, we should help but no way will I let someone threaten my family and sit by. I'll take the 12 gauge even though I am little and protect my family's lives. In spite of my size, I am a country girl and we learned early on how to use them!
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Jennie,
Amen to that. Texas is trying to pass a bill where it is legal to use outright force against an intruder at his/her own demise. This is very good. It can only be used if the intruder has serious intent to badly injure you or your loved ones.
I did not think I coud be a person to kill, but let someone come after my precious little son, and I can and am able to do so, if I have to. I pray that I never have to, but I would defend to my last breath my litte one.
Sincerely,
Anne C. McGuire
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Here is a email from Ray on using self defense,
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,1516.0.html -------------------
What do you believe the bible says about personal self
> defense? If you can not answer me now I would like to
> see something on your site in the future. Thank you.
Dear Michael:
The Bible says: "But I say unto you, That ye RESIST NOT EVIL, but whosoever shall smite you on your right cheek, turn to him the other also" (Matt. 5:39).
God be with you,
Ray
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I think this mean that if we know that He "works all things according to the counsel of His own will," Eph 1:11. So why if we trust God is in full controll of 'all things,' why would we have the need to take matter into 'our' own hands? Can't we trust God to take care of every situation?
mercy, peace, and love
Kat
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Kat,
Hmmmm. Thoughtful post, and I am praying to God that he bring me around to this point eventually. I just get very dang protectice and gung ho when my son is involved, but thanks for sharing me this becuase this is an area I need to work on and just simply trust. I guess I am still confused about the free will thing, my reading is going very slowly, but that is okay.
Thanks Kat.
Sincerely,
Anne C. McGuire
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Thats the agape love flowing.
Human nature was equipped to protect the young. Its a natural instinct. But we don't want to stay in the flesh. So, I would hope that one day I could let someone smite my other cheek.
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One of my first lessons in God's sovereignty is when I was in my early 20's. I found a coin on the ground and on it was inscribed a scripture "No weapon formed against you shall prosper" Isaiah 54:17
I pondered the meaning of it for quite a while. I finally came to the conclusion that it meant nothing could harm me outside the Will of God. I remember talking to my Mom about it and I told her that I believed if someone came after me with a gun that they couldn't harm me outside the Will of God. She thought I was crazy. I know this is the opposite end of the spectrum but this conversation reminded me of that coin.
Gena, I agree with you though. I think it is a natural instinct to protect our family, especially our young but I know that God gives supernatural strength where strength is due and I believe He would guide me beyond my own wisdom in that situation.
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A BIG AMEN TO THAT PAULA.
Lisa
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Hi all
hmmm.... Im not gettn this aye, The topic is LOVE!! & yous are talking hurting, killing, maning, etc... I use to be like that as a GANG member ???? hmm.... Im lost!
GOD be with uZ! all
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Thanks Kat
Im not sure of where the scripture is, well its saying, To beat Evil with GOOD
muchLOVE!! Pera
ps. one day I Pray I get the Knowledge of Scriptural where abouts lol!
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You are right Pera; sometimes we are in the flesh though! None of us have arrived and all of us struggle daily to be more spirit filled. :D
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Hi GODSown1,
This may be the scripture you were referring to.
Psa 34:14 Depart from evil and do good; seek peace and pursue it.
If you do not have eSword you should check it out at,
http://esword.com/
This is a site with free downloads for Bibles, commemtaries, dictionaries and other helps.
It's great to have, you can search the whole Bible for any word or phrase.
mercy, peace, and love
Kat
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Romans 12: 18-21
If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men. Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengence is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord. Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head. Be not overcome with evil, but overcome evil with good.
Love, Lisa
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Hi Kat & Lisa
Thanks again! Kat yes I do have E-sword but not very tuned into the PC fingy just yet lol!
& Yes Lisa thats the one I was looking for (ROM 12:21), This is so AwesuM!! haha!
muchLOVE Pera
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hmm.... Im not sure now Kat lol! I got my e-sword thingy off Dr Chuck Misslers 24 hours to learn the Bible cd rom is it a different one? oH! well ill check it out Bless U
GODBLESS! Pera