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=> General Discussions => Topic started by: hillsbororiver on October 11, 2008, 09:11:45 PM
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Chris posted this from Ray the other day and it did not get much of a response, probably because the thread it was posted in has veered all over the place, I felt his message deserved a thread of its own;
Ray also teaches,
Remember always as we attempt to enlighten those whom God is calling, that we are NO BETTER than those whose doctrines we condemn. God loves and DIED for these heretics of the modern Church. They are precious to God—and they had better be PRECIOUS TO US, or we too will receive a great condemnation for feeling anything but LOVE TOWARD THEM! They may be, in fact, our enemies, but Christ instructs us to: "…LOVE YOUR ENEMIES"!! [Ray Smith]
Peace
Chris R
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This is certainly something I struggle with :-[, thank you Joe.
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Great reminder from Chris and Joe for bringing this up. I have a short testimony if you guys don't mind:
I was invited to eat breakfast at a Ryan's buffet this morning. My mom invited me along with my wife and kids. My mother attends church and does not believe in any spiritual truths I have shared with her. She stated this was a kind of church breakfast and would mean a lot to her if I could attend because she was speaking. I figured since it was a public restaurant, there would be a short speech, prayer, and then everyone eat their breakfast.
But....once I got there, I saw that the group was located in a closed door area. Their was a 'praise group', programs being handed out, people being referred to as 'Passer' and 'First Lady'. It was absolutely horrible. I wanted to throw up right then and there. I was like a traveling, Babylon road show.
The Lord softened my heart and gave me patience to endure instead of acting like a rude, jerk which I kinda wanted to. It was a valuable lesson and I thought went hand & hand with what Chris stated before.
Alright, now back to your regular scheduled posting... :D
Marques
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Mat 19:26 But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.
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A Heartfelt Amen!
Brenda
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I plead Guilty and Repent, and ask God to fix the blindness in me.
Thanks Chris and Joe for the timely rebuke.
George.
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If Jesus hadn't loved and died for his enemies where would we all be right now? remember, "...while we were yet sinners Christ died for us..." Sinners are not the ones who are his friends! Paul wasn't always the missionary who laid down his life for his Master. Everyone starts somewhere, and we are a part of the ALL in "ALL have sinned and come short of the glory of God." I thank God for the mercy he has shown to me!
Kathy :)
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Great post by Chris R!!! Thanks for reminding us Joe!
Antaiwan
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I can love people who are different than me or have different ideas but there is no doubt that it is very difficult for two opposites to get along. To have the ability to put your emotions aside and to handle JUST THE SUBJECT is difficult to many people.
This is a timely post. I rode with my son and my mother today to a birthday party for my son's three year old cousin. My Mom always talks about her Baptist church and she brought up that they were doing a Revelation study and she praised the teacher and spoke about how hard the unsaved were going to have it in the upcoming end times and all such stuff they teach with future "end time" teachings. I spoke a little about the different viewpoints people have on those things, such as preterits, futurists etc. But I stressed what I thought was most important in seeing the beast within and praying for God to take the throne in your own life. I also spoke about using the scriptures for spiritual purpose versus a literal take. I spoke calmly and not arrogantly. She then told me that she wishes I could come to her study and share the things I know with her class. I thanked her for the invite and appreciated her kind words. But I mean in all honesty, I just can't see that ever working. I don't know to many people who can talk about a subject such as these things and not get nasty or to worked up etc. I could go and share what I know and for me I don't let all the tension mean that people don't love one another. I look back and see how many of us have been taught that someone saying something different than us is either "not saved" or has a "demon" or any other sort of saying that denotes they are on the wrong side. The ability to look at a person and separate them and their beliefs are tricky. Afterall people are afraid to be lead astray or to speak against God or whatever. But when you consider the no free will and God's sovereignty, it does just come back to you doing what your supposed to do (if you know) and that is love your enemies. And for many who have pondered or read some of Ray's writings on love you realize it doesn't mean what society tries to imply it means.
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Great reminder from Chris and Joe for bringing this up. I have a short testimony if you guys don't mind:
I was invited to eat breakfast at a Ryan's buffet this morning. My mom invited me along with my wife and kids. My mother attends church and does not believe in any spiritual truths I have shared with her. She stated this was a kind of church breakfast and would mean a lot to her if I could attend because she was speaking. I figured since it was a public restaurant, there would be a short speech, prayer, and then everyone eat their breakfast.
But....once I got there, I saw that the group was located in a closed door area. Their was a 'praise group', programs being handed out, people being referred to as 'Passer' and 'First Lady'. It was absolutely horrible. I wanted to throw up right then and there. I was like a traveling, Babylon road show.
The Lord softened my heart and gave me patience to endure instead of acting like a rude, jerk which I kinda wanted to. It was a valuable lesson and I thought went hand & hand with what Chris stated before.
Alright, now back to your regular scheduled posting... :D
Marques
Amen to you Marques for exhibiting tolerance, humility and patience and not acting like a rude jerk; ;D By keeping silent and tolerating this uncomfortable situation, you gave a Non-verbal witness to your Mother and others. Although you attended this "Babylonian side show", Gods Holy Spirit was helping you endure, because I would have felt very uncomfortable, too.
Kind Regards, Samson.
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Hi, the only real enemy I have is myself. And that is the one I can do nothing for, how can you love yourself if you are the enemy?
Bless you all Ricky
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Yeah, I struggle with the love for myself as well. But I have to remember:
Mt 19:19 'Honor your father and your mother,' and, 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' "
This does include me and also you.
Jeff
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I am definitely no better.
I have a real problem with not taking someone being upset about what I believe without getting upset about it.
I tell, it's not something you just go "oh, I'm guilty of that, why don't I just stop doing it" because I've tried and I've gotta say, if the Lord doesn't give Me the mind of Christ, I'm lost!
The Lord has been showing me myself lately, and I have to say,
It ain't a pretty sight!
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The Lord has been showing me myself lately, and I have to say, It ain't a pretty sight!
Boy can I relate! I use to think I was a fairly decent person,... so much for thinking!
:-\
Brenda
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Perhaps we all need another look at this. ???
*BUMP*
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Perhaps we all need another look at this. ???
*BUMP*
Which aspect of it KristaD?
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Perhaps we all need another look at this. ???
*BUMP*
Which aspect of it KristaD?
The fact that none of us are any better than anyone else.
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Well in that case, I totally agree with you, but not because I have anyone in mind who thinks their better than anyone else, jut because it's always something We should always bear in mind.
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I too had no one person in mind that is why I said we ALL need another look at it. Whenever differences and conflicts arise between any of us we should always remember that we are no better than anyone, that is all I meant. I am sorry you took my bumping the thread as an insult to someone, I had no idea that it would appear to be aimed at anybody in particular ???. It was done in love ;).
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I too had no one person in mind that is why I said we ALL need another look at it. Whenever differences and conflicts arise between any of us we should always remember that we are no better than anyone, that is all I meant. I am sorry you took my bumping the thread as an insult to someone, I had no idea that it would appear to be aimed at anybody in particular ???. It was done in love ;).
Oh no I didn't think you had a particular person in mind!
I only posted that long winded explanation so you didn't think that I had a particular person in mind.
LOL!
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Hey. I know both of you were talking about me. ;D
Concerning the original post, is it too babylonian to say, "Love the sinner, hate the sin?"
I just noticed that the first word in 'babylon' is 'baby'. Hmmmm
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I just noticed that the first word in 'babylon' is 'baby'. Hmmmm
Good pickup Dave....but rather than looking at them we should examine ourselves and hope that we
(1Co 1:26) For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:
(1Co 1:27) But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;
1Co 1:28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to naught things that are:
beloved
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God has been working with me on just this subject.....I think that I was so angry with myself for being so deceived for so many years and then the anger spilt over to my old church and how the pastor was leading people astray. I was disgusted.
His gentle voice have been whispering in my ear as of late....."the shadow is not evil".
Thanks for this post. I have repented of my attitude and asked God to help me to love my enemy's.
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I often remind myself of something Ray taught me. I have come this far (out of Babylon, universal salvation, and the many truths I have learned here) because God put it in my heart to believe the truth. I am no longer amazed, angry, or feeling superior when someone rejects these truths. They don't believe because God has not put it into their hearts to believe. Why me and not them? That is God's business. 'what I know for sure is I did nothing of myself to deserve it.
Understanding this has gone a long way to temper my reactions. Thanks to the others who have posted on this topic. Some really thoughtful responses.
Dennis in KC
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I too had no one person in mind that is why I said we ALL need another look at it. Whenever differences and conflicts arise between any of us we should always remember that we are no better than anyone, that is all I meant. I am sorry you took my bumping the thread as an insult to someone, I had no idea that it would appear to be aimed at anybody in particular ???. It was done in love ;).
Oh no I didn't think you had a particular person in mind!
I only posted that long winded explanation so you didn't think that I had a particular person in mind.
LOL!
ROFL! Now THAT is a perfect example of an internet misunderstanding ;D.
Wow I never noticed that Dave....weird.
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MAN!! I must be the biggest hypocrite, when I tell someone about my new found truth according to Ray and Scripture because I look up just about everything Ray Say's that's Scripture I gotta see for myself. Anyway I tell them and they of course tell me how wrong I am and. I should stop listening to Ray. I comp an attitude. I guess they can see it in my face or see it in my replies. I feel strongly about the truth(Gods Truth). I guess I need help in my response. I had one person tell me Jesus never spoke like that. I said IF you ever read Jesus words to the Pharisee and scribes you would see just how Jesus spoke to them. I'm not mean or nasty to them. I like to call it passionate. I don't feel I am no better than anyone. I get the feeling that They feel they are better than me. How does one convey your truth to their
(false truth) Darn did it again.
Darren
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Darren,
Regarding what we share with others about our beliefs...
I try to keep it simple so that I can understand it myself.
Remember that what we express in a few sentences is supported in our own minds by tons and tons of verbal, written and inspired experiences and with conscious and with un-conscious meditations.
There is no way that we can convey what has taken us years to learn. It is impossible because we don't realize how long it really took. We forget all the notes that we took mentally and then erased and rewrote or wrote and then crossed out or wrote and then appended foot notes that we, in our own minds, can recall at will and automatically.
The human brain is just that complex. THEN add to that the FACT that God spoke to you and me a little at a time, every day and even during our sleep time and you can see that there is no way possible for us to teach others the way God does.
Maybe try this;
Tell folks that you have come to believe that No one is going to hell and that God will save everyone eventually and then stop talking. Change the subject. Mention the baseball scores and ask them if they want some more coffee and FORCE yourself to think of other interesting things to discuss. Maybe you could just tell them that you're not afraid to die. Nothing else. Then wait.
Really, IF God wants to open that person's mind and heart, God can do it without us.
If by chance God will let us share in the process of their beginning to see the truth, God can motivate that person to think of the subject while they are apart from us and not even interested in talking to us about any subject.
We have just got to realize that our poor efforts to share the truth are no more likely to succeed than that of Christendoms ministers efforts to bring peace to the world. It is not yet time. Converting the world is Jesus' job and privilege and it won't begin in earnest until Jesus takes his throne in Jerusalem. That's when the fun starts.
Our job is to fellowship with people of like mind and in a small way to develop the character and strengths of our Lord so that we can be prepared for the tasks ahead.
It is a lonely job in many ways and yet we are not alone. In fact we are never alone and are in the best company of any people in the whole world. Be comforted that we have been offered membership in the Pioneers club of Christianity. We are the trail breakers who go before the settlers and the families who will populate the Righteous Kingdom. We get to sleep in the open air and see revealed the beauty of God's wonderful plan ahead of all of the others. We get to discover things that are too wonderful for men to have revealed to them and yet here we are.
Think of what Jesus went through when he was the only one who understood and for 33 years couldn't share the full truth of God's plan with his closest friends who were constantly with him. Now that is real, Godly patience.
Enjoy the opportunity and the blessings and commit all of this experience to memory so that when the time is right, you can share it with the millions who come later.
Bob
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Thank you Bob,
That is so precisely put in a way that I totally agree with. But I could never have put it in words the way that you have.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
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Bob Kat is so right, you put the beautifully. MAN! that was good. I wish I could convey like that. OK that's enough, I don't want your head to get too big :) ;) :D ;D. Yes I agree with you on all points. I can just imagine what their thinking after I leave the room. You know there's no such place as hell, and I'm not afraid to die. WOW! I never really thought about it in a real meditated sort of way, how much I learned since being here? I think I been here 5or6mos. not long, but the knowledge i have acquired is unimaginable. I tell the best part of knowing the truth in God's word is the comfort and peace of it all. You know what I mean?? Just knowing my family members are not burning in hell because they was not born again. I and this is just my opinion I think many many more people would want to know about God if they only knew the truth. How their family members aren't burning in hell how all will be saved, just knowing that God is truly a forgiven God and A loving God.
Thanks,
Darren
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Think of what Jesus went through when he was the only one who understood and for 33 years couldn't share the full truth of God's plan with his closest friends who were constantly with him. Now that is real, Godly patience.
Enjoy the opportunity and the blessings and commit all of this experience to memory so that when the time is right, you can share it with the millions who come later.
Bob, God bless you my brother. What you wrote above really hit home for me......joy and peace. Hallelujah!!
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I have to put one in also Bob :)
Great post...this one i will copy and read at least once a week.
God bless you.
Robin
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Hi Bob,
That was a really great post!!!
Iris
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MAN!! I must be the biggest hypocrite, when I tell someone about my new found truth according to Ray and Scripture because I look up just about everything Ray Say's that's Scripture I gotta see for myself. Anyway I tell them and they of course tell me how wrong I am and. I should stop listening to Ray. I comp an attitude. I guess they can see it in my face or see it in my replies. I feel strongly about the truth(Gods Truth). I guess I need help in my response. I had one person tell me Jesus never spoke like that. I said IF you ever read Jesus words to the Pharisee and scribes you would see just how Jesus spoke to them. I'm not mean or nasty to them. I like to call it passionate. I don't feel I am no better than anyone. I get the feeling that They feel they are better than me. How does one convey your truth to their
(false truth) Darn did it again.
Darren
I know exactly what your saying. Especially about the "they feel they are better than me" part, I struggled with that when I was still in Babylon! I guess it was Gods way of signalling me that it was time to get out of Babylon! It seems more and more every day, that Christians today are more in need of biblical truths than those who don't know God at all! :o