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=> General Discussions => Topic started by: newgene87 on December 28, 2011, 03:27:17 PM
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I've been battling this for a lil while now. Ever since Ive been set free from the "God consists of a Trinity" mindset; now I wonder who do we pray to. I see from Jesus example, we are to start, "Our Father..." so that's to the father. And I also take into mind that was before his ressurrection. So his position is higher than at that time: so since Jesus was a Rabbi, The Jews knew to refer to God as Father (Deut 32:6)(Jer31:9)Now, Jesus goes on to say, "I am the way the truth and the life: no man comes to the Father, but by me" (John14:6) so that puts Christ in the forefront. So do we pray to Jesus, the Son of God, also the Mediater? Or do we pray to the Father? I hope the question makes some type of sense. And I've read Rays paper on prayer and that's great. But still, so we pray to the Father or the Son? Thanks
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FYI: http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,13571.0.html
Similar thread and subject.
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I've read that thread and it still doesn't do it for me. Not so much do I use the magic phrase "in Jesus Name" but who am I talking to when I pray: the Father or Jesus Himself. Since He sits at the right hand of the Majesty on high (Heb1:3). I know that can crossrelate if Jesus IS the Father, so I'm not trying to go there cuz I know Ray is in the works of that wonderful teaching. But just for now, who do I pray to?
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I've read that thread and it still doesn't do it for me. Not so much do I use the magic phrase "in Jesus Name" but who am I talking to when I pray: the Father or Jesus Himself.
The same principle applies...it's superstitious to believe you must pray to one or the other. No one knows the Father except the Son and vice versa [Matt 11:27, Luke 10:22, John 6:44, John 14:6]. To pray to One is to pray to the Other, to know One is to know the Other, to believe in One is to believe in the Other, etc.
Marques
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Hello newgene87
I don't know how much this can help you out. I can only share what I can share.
Maybe it might help you find comfort and courage to know that I too have been through this painful maize of shadows and doubts, fears and timidity of not knowing who to pray to and not wanting to be incorrect or to supposedly offend the Father if I address prayer to the Son or to overstep the mark if I go over the head of the Son, to pray to the Father. I learned that such thinking is nonsense and only comes out of the limited thinking of a mind bent on leaning on its own understanding and desire to follow human protocols that are fear driven.
I subsequently wondered if you pray to Christ, would the Father of Jesus not know what you said.....or if you pray to the Father of Jesus, would Christ not know what you said? Of course not~ ;D
If you pray to Jesus Christ, would the Father be upset or feel diminished, less important or ignored? Is God who made Jesus Christ, who is to save us all, so little? Of course not ~ ;D
Father and Son are Spirit. The two are One.
Maybe it might help if you speak to both and do as the one, which is as Jesus did. This is not a formula or quick fix. The mind may still try to beat you up and make you fear that you are doing something wrong and offending someone pretty high up in Heaven, which is nonsense too~ :D
It might help to be doing as Jesus did....Pray to the Father of Jesus, as Jesus Himself did, in imitation of Jesus, knowing that only through the Spirit of Christ in you, can you ever approach the Father of all. ;D
So, not ignoring Jesus or elbowing Him out of the way, but by imitating Him, in worshipful obedience in great reverence and gratitude for Him, ..continue being as the follower of Jesus, to copy your big Brother. 8)
Enter into your closet, which is you, your self, and speak to Father, in the act of obedience to Jesus, who told you to do so.
Where the Father is, the Son is too. Don't fret.
Obey, Pray and Believe are not do it yourself tools of the trade. I know how the mind can disturb and confuse and upset our allegiance to both Father and Son. Which came first...the chicken or the egg...kind of confusion the mind likes to play.
Father and Son are one. Don't let the trickery of the limited mind, play fear and doubting tricks with your heart or soul. Who are you going to believe?...your mind or Jesus?
Father hears your thoughts, knows all and everyone and everything, and Son guides your heart, for He is the Author and Finisher of your Faith. If that doesn't help...then patience, patience, patience....pray anyway~ ;D Don't lean on the limited understanding of the human mind. The Mind of Christ is not subject to human limits and fears.
Nothing escapes Father. He is still going to hear you, know exactly where and how you are, and what you are doing and thinking. :D ;D Be sure, nothing can separate you from His Love.
Arc
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Excellent replies. I used to worry about that stuff too and then it occurred to me how many prayers have been answered that I addressed to Jesus.
Ray's study on Are You Afraid of God helped me see that I was afraid of God (the Father). But Father and son are exactly alike in purpose, goal/aim and desire: to save all humanity.
They're going to respond to prayers the way the other would.
Some have pointed out correctly that Jesus prays to the Father and instructs us to do that.
But then I thought, what if I do pray to Jesus having prayed that way out of habit for so many years rather than address the Father? What's the difference seeing the two are one in spirit? It's exasperating to think about sometimes.
Eph 6:4 Fathers, do not exasperate your children; instead, bring them up [as opposed to down, haha] in the training and instruction of the Lord.
Nome sayin?
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Ray really got me thinking when he brought up this "Enigma of God" subject---Who and What is God? What food for thought!
When I was a youth, I was a Catholic, and the good nuns taught me and I believed God was a trinity.
I was in the Worldwide Church of God for about 25 years and I thought God was a binity, two Gods in one, the Father and the Son.
Now, I think there is One God. That the Father and Jesus are One and the Same. I am not a teacher. I don't yet know the right words. The Father and Jesus seem to be different ?????????? of the One God. The Father is preeminent. Jesus is the Way, the Truth, and the Life. We go to the Father through Jesus. Jesus prayed to the Father. So, I guess that is good enough for me.
Now that I think God is One, prayer is easier. It concentrates the mind. Thinking that there were two Gods and praying to two Gods seemed a little crazy.
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That was beautiful arc and you were absolutely speaking my mind. That is exactly how I felt about praying to Jesus I felt I was diminishing the Father. Thank you all. You helped me out alot
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Can Jesus be the son of God and still be God himself? that is the question for me. Have to wait till Ray explains in his upcoming paper. The bible says we are to believe that Jesus is the son of God. Not God himself? I Jesus didn't say for us to pray to Jesus. He said to pray to the Father. I think it's a matter of understanding who the Father is, in order to know how to Pray unconditionally. Have to wait till Ray explains. Keep in mind, In the new testament, Jesus always referred himself as the prophet. Prophet is the highest office next to God. Maybe God came as the Son, to demote himself lower to the level of man and get the message across. If so, then who was doing the talking to Jesus when He prayed, got baptized, and talked to at the cross? It's mind boggling if you ask me.. I'm ready for some clarification.
Denise
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So glad everyone came together to give very beautiful answers to you newgene87 ~ :) 8)
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For me it is simple I pray to God, as Jesus said "I and the Father are one!" (John 10:30 ) Jesus Christ is "the image" we need to see of an INVISIBLE God.
Col 1:15 who is the image of the invisible God, first-born of all creation,
John 14:8 Philip said to Him, Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us.
v. 9 Jesus said to him, Have I been with you such a long time and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father. And how do you say, Show us the Father?
Can Jesus be the son of God and still be God himself?
The answer has to be yes! Not a different being like physical human beings (father and son), but Son is God's explanation of what Jesus, an extention of Himself, "His image" is. Here is a question, why did Jesus pray out loud to "the Father?"
John 11:42 And I know that You hear Me always, but because of the people who stand by I said it, so that they may believe that You have sent Me.
Everything that He did He did as an example for people to see, they watched His every move, hung onto every word that He said, rightly so. Here are some interesting Scripture.
Act 5:30 and the God of our fathers did raise up Jesus, whom ye slew, having hanged upon a tree; 31 this ONE God, a Prince and a Savior, hath exalted with His right hand, to give reformation to Israel, and forgiveness of sins;
Jude 1:25 to the only wise God, our Savior, be glory and majesty and might and authority, even now and forever. Amen.
1Co 8:6 yet to us is ONE God, the Father, of whom are the all things, and we to Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are the all things, and we through Him;
Eph 4:4 There is ONE body and ONE Spirit... v.5 ONE Lord, ONE faith, ONE baptism, v.6 ONE GOD and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.
We can see right in the Scripture that Jesus states His relationship to the Father.
John 10:30 I and the Father are ONE!
mercy, peace and love
Kat
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Beautiful, Kat.
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For me it is simple I pray to God, as Jesus said "I and the Father are one!" (John 10:30 ) Jesus Christ is "the image" we need to see of an INVISIBLE God.
Col 1:15 who is the image of the invisible God, first-born of all creation,
John 14:8 Philip said to Him, Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us.
v. 9 Jesus said to him, Have I been with you such a long time and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father. And how do you say, Show us the Father?
Can Jesus be the son of God and still be God himself?
The answer has to be yes! Not a different being like physical human beings (father and son), but Son is God's explanation of what Jesus, an extention of Himself, "His image" is. Here is a question, why did Jesus pray out loud to "the Father?"
John 11:42 And I know that You hear Me always, but because of the people who stand by I said it, so that they may believe that You have sent Me.
Everything that He did He did as an example for people to see, they watched His every move, hung onto every word that He said, rightly so. Here are some interesting Scripture.
Act 5:30 and the God of our fathers did raise up Jesus, whom ye slew, having hanged upon a tree; 31 this ONE God, a Prince and a Savior, hath exalted with His right hand, to give reformation to Israel, and forgiveness of sins;
Jude 1:25 to the only wise God, our Savior, be glory and majesty and might and authority, even now and forever. Amen.
1Co 8:6 yet to us is ONE God, the Father, of whom are the all things, and we to Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are the all things, and we through Him;
Eph 4:4 There is ONE body and ONE Spirit... v.5 ONE Lord, ONE faith, ONE baptism, v.6 ONE GOD and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.
We can see right in the Scripture that Jesus states His relationship to the Father.
John 10:30 I and the Father are ONE!
mercy, peace and love
Kat
Yes... There are also another scriptures that are puzzling like for example: Jesus said we must be one with God as well. Does that mean we are God himself? No.
If Jesus is GOd himself. Why is Jesus sitting on the Father's right hand?
Romans 8:34
King James Version (KJV)
34Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
In Johns 17,
Notice this: 21That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
22And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
23I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
24Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.
Jesus prays this prayer- for humanity- He prays that we become one with the Father. Does that mean we are the Father? I think what He meant is that because Jesus is perfect, of like mind with the Father- You see the Father in him. Doesn't necessarily mean he is the Father himself. He often denied in scripture that he is the Father.
Even scriptures say Jesus sits next to his Father in Heaven. Often told us to pray to the Father, not him.
John 17
1These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:
2As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
3And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
4I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.
5And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
6I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word.
7Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee.
8For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.
9I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.
10And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them.
11And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.
12While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.
13And now come I to thee; and these things I speak in the world, that they might have my joy fulfilled in themselves.
14I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
15I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.
16They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
17Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
18As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.
19And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.
20Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
21That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
22And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
23I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
24Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.
25O righteous Father, the world hath not known thee: but I have known thee, and these have known that thou hast sent me.
26And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them.
You see why I'm so confused?
Denise
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I can totally empathize with you, Denise. It's good that you're not afraid to ask questions.
I can't tell you how many times I written Ray with some annoyance over something he said or has written. He's like, just give it time and you'll see. And he always turned out to be right--when it comes to the things I'm particularly concerned with, not that he's never said anything that he's had to later correct--though honestly I can't think of what those things were at the moment. It's past history I guess.
There have been times when I've been like, eh- whatever--I'm done with B-T. But then I'm like, but where in the heck am I gonna go??!
Ahhh!! Sometimes the frustration of not understanding something just makes me want to bang my head against a wall. I think I've done that once. No, really!
I realized during a particularly hard event recently that it is God Who I always want to run to when things are topsy-tervy. I'm not going to turn to the devil, the world, or atheists -- they sure as you-know-what don't have the answers.
I guess what I'm trying to say is, I'm glad you're here. :)
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It is no longer about a name for me, what we recognize our God by is not a name anyhow. Jesus is the WAY and his disciples were followers of this WAY were they not? The scriptures speak of this WAY.
I feel sorry for people who suffer from amnesia, poor souls can't connect to God anymore. :o Just joking! But hey we know Saul knew the "name" of the only true God but yet he didn't seem to know who knocked him off his high horse right? Well to me at least that is because he didn't know HIM and there is a big difference.
1 John 4:6
God is love
1 John 1:5
God is light
John 10:27
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me.
Matthew 7:16
You shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
John 14:7
If you had really known me, you would know who my Father is.
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Bravo, Riverrrrr!!! ;D :D :D
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Hi Denise,
I will not hesitate to say that this is a complicated and difficult subject and I do not have any of the answers that's for sure. I am trying to look at this with an open mind, to the Spirit of course, and not let all the religion I have heard impede my understanding. I have read all the Scriptures you have presented many times and yes it gets confusing.
How long has Ray been working on his paper on this subject? We are not going to figure this out here, we are just sharing opinions and that's all.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
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Hey Denise
Chew on this a little bit. It's GREAT news! ;D
We always think of God as being the Father, always God and Jesus Christ. But here in the OT when God spoke to Moses, it wasn’t God the Father. Because He spoke to him and no man has ever heard the Father and we already showed 18 verses, that proves Christ existed before humans existed. He was at the beginning. He is the beginning. He is the Alpha, you see. He is the beginning of the creation of God. He is the Firstfruit.
So when it says God - Elohim, who is it talking about? It’s the ‘We’ and the ‘Us.’ Elohim is the ’We’ and the ’Us.’ So it’s BOTH!
You got to get it out of your head that God is the name of Jesus’ Father. God is not the name of Jesus’ Father. God is a title that is used even by the pagans. http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,4472.0.html
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Hey Denise
Chew on this a little bit. It's GREAT news! ;D
We always think of God as being the Father, always God and Jesus Christ. But here in the OT when God spoke to Moses, it wasn’t God the Father. Because He spoke to him and no man has ever heard the Father and we already showed 18 verses, that proves Christ existed before humans existed. He was at the beginning. He is the beginning. He is the Alpha, you see. He is the beginning of the creation of God. He is the Firstfruit.
So when it says God - Elohim, who is it talking about? It’s the ‘We’ and the ‘Us.’ Elohim is the ’We’ and the ’Us.’ So it’s BOTH!
You got to get it out of your head that God is the name of Jesus’ Father. God is not the name of Jesus’ Father. God is a title that is used even by the pagans. http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,4472.0.html
Deb, How do you do it?! ;) ;D
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Deb, River and Gina,
I think it's a matter of understanding God..It takes time..I am sure that once we do, it would make total sense. I read somewhere that Ray says God is a title, So probably the term God is an unity consciousness.. One consciousness. Of like mindedness in everything, In One.. Scriptures say the Father wants us to be part of the One.. But my question is.. Is Jesus the Father? Jesus often said we are to pray to the Father, Not him. That's the thing. Jesus and the Father are one because they are united in Oneness and prays from heaven that we unite as one with them too one day. Even Father created Jesus, the first creation among many creations. Doesn't necessarily mean Jesus is the Father himself? That's my question. Is Jesus the Father, or are they just ONE- they think in likeness of everything, an reflection of each other, they have the same beliefs, notions, same thinking, etc and they want us to be like them in everything, hence, creating us in the image of the Father. Doesn't mean we are Father himself. simply a reflection of the father? Even scripture says Father is not material. that means He doesn't eat. He doesn't drink. Doesn't sleep, and so on..But like River pointed out scriptures that say The father is love, light and everyone who knows him knows that voice or instinct. I look forward to Ray's paper. :)
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http://bible-truths.com/trinity.html
We don't have to wait for something 'new' to get on the right track. If we can't reconcile all scripture within the confines of what we've gown up believing or what we now think, then there is something amiss in what we think.
GOD is not a trinity. Neither is He a duality.
Some of these questions, at least, are answered in the Trinity paper. If we just read that to refute Trinitarianism, we're missing a large part of the teaching.
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I think a review of what Ray has recently said on this subject.
This is an excerpt from the note page of the 'Who and What is Jesus" conference.
http://bible-truths.com/audio/notes.htm --------------------------------------------------
" Hear O Israel the Yehwah our Elohim is ONE Yehwah" (Deut. 6:14)
"The Yahweh your Elohim, He is Elohim, the faithful El which keeps covenant and mercy with them that love Him and keep His commandments" (Deut. 7:9).
"For the Yehwah your Elohim is Elohim of Elohim and Adon Adon of Adon Adon a great El"(Deut. 10:17)
"I am the Yahweh, and there is none else, there is NO ELOHIM beside Me" (Isa. 45:5 & 6).
Notice that there is "NO ELOHIM except Yahweh." Then where does Jesus’ Father come in?
We know that there is a "God the Father," for Jesus Himself spoke of "God the Father" (John 6:27). And we have this: "God the Father AND the Lord Jesus Christ" (Rom. 1:7). They are even contrasted "not as I will, but as THOU" (Matt. 26:39).
ANSWER: God the Father and Jehovah [Jesus] Elohim, ARE ONE GOD. "I and My Father are ONE" (John 10:30). "One" what? O-N-E G-O-D!
"THE Lord [Jehovah]" of Psalm 110:1 becomes GOD THE FATHER in Heb. 1:1 & 13. The "God" Who spoke to the fathers was "the LORD THY GOD [Jehovah your Elohim]" Who was Jesus, was also GOD THE FATHER. How so? They are ONE.
"The God OF OUR FATHERS raised up JESUS, Whom ye slew and hanged on a tree" (Acts 5:30). But in the Old Testament, Jesus Christ was Jehovah Elohim to the fathers.
THEY ARE ONE: "I and My Father ARE ONE"
Jesus was "Emmanuel" which means "God with us.." (Mat. 1:23).
"he that has seen Me HAS SEEN THE FATHER, I am in the Father and the Father in Me, Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father in Me." (John 14:9-11).
Jesus has taught us that when TWO are in spiritual harmony, THEY ARE REALLY ONE (Matt. 19:5)
Marriage is the closest physical analogy of this truth (Eph. 5:28-32).
THE ONE GOD IS CHANGELESS:
"I am the LORD [Jehovah] I change NOT" (Mal. 3:6).
"Jesus Christ the SAME yesterday, and to day, and for ever" (Heb. 13:8). But what about the FATHER? Does He change?
"Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and comes down from the FATHER OF LIGHTS, with Whom is no variableness [no variation, ASA; never subject to change, TCNT] neither shadow of turning [shadow do to a change]" (Jam. 1:17).
UNCHANGEABLENESS speaks of TOTAL PERFECTION. When total perfection is achieved, THERE IS NOTHING MORE TO CHANGE IN THAT WHICH IS ALREADY PERFECT!
"Be ye therefore [Gk: Ye will be] perfect even as your Father which is in heaven IS PERFECT" (Matt. 5:48).
"those whom You have given Me, that they may be ONE, AS we are ONE" (John 17:11).
"That they all may be ONE; as You Father, are in Me and I in Thee, that they also may be ONE IN US.that they may be ONE even as We are ONE that they may be made perfect [future tense I John 3:2] in ONE" (John 17:21).
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This is an email from May 2011.
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,13157.0.html ------------------------
The key to understanding just Who God is. We will also delve into the "What" aspect of God. All of the Scriptures must agree or we are not understanding or teaching properly.
I have said for many years that "Jesus IS GOD" (see pp 22-23 of my article "God is NOT a Trinity.") But if Jesus IS God and His Father IS God don't we then have TWO GODS? There is ONLY ONE GOD! Yes, this does appear to be an unsolvable enigma, but it is not unsolvable.
I have said and taught further through the years that not only is Jesus God, but He is the ONLY GOD that we will every truly know in this life. And why do I say that? Well for one thing, that IS what the Scriptures teach:
"And this IS life eternal [eonian--'And this is the Aionian Life..."--Emphatic Diaglott."], that they might know Thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, Whom Thou has sent" (John 17:3).
Yes, it will take "aions/eons" to come to know God the Father. It won't happen in this life. So what is the purpose of us receiving eonian life? To come to "...know Thee the only true God..."
There is so much more to this teaching that just solving the riddle of how the Father and Son can both be God if.....I say IF they are separate Beings with separate personalities.
"Hear O Israel, the LORD thy God is ONE LORD" (Deut. 6:4).
"I and My Father ARE ONE" (John 10:30).
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word [singular] WAS GOD" (John 1:1).
"I am the LORD, and there is non else, there is NO GOD BESIDE ME" (Isa. 45:5--"none
else" ver. 14; "none else" ver. 18; "none beside Me" ver. 21; "I am God, there is none else"
ver. 22; "I am God, there is none like Me," Isa. 46:9; "I am and there is none else beside
Me," Isa. 47:.
"There is none other God, BUT ONE...But to us there is BUT ONE GOD" (I Cor. 8:4 & 6).
"And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, 'Hear, O Israel; The Lord
our God is ONE LORD" (Mark. 12:29).
As to how many "Gods" there are, there is no argument! There is but ONE GOD! I have now given you part of the answer, but there is much to follow. We know what the Scripture says, but how is it possible for two to be one God? There is an answer.
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mercy, peace and love
Kat
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And they stoned Stephen, calling upon [God], and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit. Act 7:59
And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep. Act 7:60
Stephen plainly prayed clearly to (resurrected) Jesus.
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You can see Stephen's state of heart condition right there. He was praying to Jesus that the murderers not be held charged for killing him while they were killing him. There's love and concern for one another.
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And they stoned Stephen, calling upon [God], and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit. Act 7:59
And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep. Act 7:60
Stephen plainly prayed clearly to (resurrected) Jesus.
And yet, when Jesus prayed to God, He called Him Father.
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That's true, Jesus prayed to God, He called Him Father..
Also in this verse,
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. John 14:6
Stephen is full of Spirit at that time and the Spirit inspired Stephen to pray. We know that the Spirit is truth and surely the Spirit guided him, that even though Stephen saw both the Father and the Son, he prayed to Jesus. He prayed to (resurrected) Jesus.
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That's true, Jesus prayed to God, He called Him Father..
Also in this verse,
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. John 14:6
Stephen is full of Spirit at that time and the Spirit inspired Stephen to pray. We know that the Spirit is truth and surely the Spirit guided him, that even though Stephen saw both the Father and the Son, he prayed to Jesus. He prayed to (resurrected) Jesus.
Jesus said, "I and the Father are one." John 10:30
Stephen had a vision, not a reality. If the Father is God and Jesus is God, then you have two Gods. Yet the scriptures teach that there is One God. An idea of a Binity is just as wrong as an idea of a Trinity.
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Just pray. If He can't hear you and know your heart, what's the point of speaking to Him?
And don't do it like the pharisees and hypocrites do it. :)
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It doesn't matter whether Stephen had a vision or literal saw the event, the mere fact that Stephan is full of Spirit. Stephen saw the glory of God, It is the Glory that Stephen saw. He both saw the Glory of God and Jesus and yet he called Jesus to receive his spirit and not the God the Father whom he call to entrust his spirit. I did not say this to lower God the Father but to show that without Jesus without going first to Jesus you can not go to the Father. Again, it is not us going to Jesus but the Will of God that we to go to Jesus.
The below event also explaining by Stephen regarding the God of glory that appeared to Abraham. In another event Ananias explaining that Lord Jesus appeared to Saul in his way to Damascus.
But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God, And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God. Act 7:55-56
And he said, Men, brethren, and fathers, hearken; The God of glory appeared unto our father Abraham, when he was in Mesopotamia, before he dwelt in Charran, Act 7:2
And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, [even] Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost. Act 9:17
Why we have to worry if the Father is God and Jesus is God. Can all your worries add a single moment to your life? Mat 6:27
Or are we another Phillipp's when he say.
Philip said, "Lord, show us the Father, and we will be satisfied." John 14:8
Jesus replied, "Have I been with you all this time, Philip, and yet you still don't know who I am? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father! So why are you asking me to show him to you?. John 14:9
Don't you believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in me? The words I speak are not my own, but my Father who lives in me does his work through me. John 14:10
Just believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in me. Or at least believe because of the work you have seen me do. John 14:11
"I tell you the truth, anyone who believes in me will do the same works I have done, and even greater works, because I am going to be with the Father. John 14:12
You can ask for anything in my name, and I will do it, so that the Son can bring glory to the Father. John 14:13
Yes, ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it! John 14:14
"If you love me, obey my commandments. John 14:15
Now it is Jesus who said to ask anything in His name and He will do it. Still doubting. Is anybody can come to Father without Jesus?
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. John 14:6
I am the vine, ye [are] the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. John 15:5
Is it a burden to us in this time that we do not know who the One God Is? For my thoughts [are] not your thoughts, neither [are] your ways my ways, saith the LORD. Isa 55:8
But we have this, the image of God, Is it not sufficient for us this time? Or can I say to wait for the moment to L. Ray Smith until the full revelation is given to Him.
Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of [things] in heaven, and [things] in earth, and [things] under the earth; And [that] every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ [is] Lord, to the glory of God the Father. Phl 2:5-11
In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them. 2Cr 4:4
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Hi there fellow traveller,
I personally believe that when I pray my prayer has been CAUSED by God Almighty to be uttered from my lips for a divine purpose, so I guess God already knows who I'm addressing even though I will usually say some thing like, "Father God through your Son Jesus Christ my saviour", but then again I also believe when a Buddhist monk or a Muslim, etc, prays that it is done via God Almighty CAUSING them to do so, also for a divine purpose.
God Almighty CAUSES all prayer! So He knows who we are rapping to even if we don't. I'm excited when I prayer because I know God has CAUSED me to do so, and so I know something is going to happen at some point, even if I'm just driving along and I just want to check in with God Almighty and let Him know what I'm thinking for my benefit (of course He already knows).
I hope that helps you in some way, I know when I talk to my children or my wife that I don't always need to say their names first then again some times I do need to call out their names. It will be what it will be, God's will is always done. Peace be with you amid all the turmoil that is so necessary to perfect us :).