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=> General Discussions => Topic started by: Akira329 on August 28, 2011, 04:25:51 PM
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In light of our marathon race, what keeps your feet planted to the truths you have learned?
There are many who come and go from this forum and teach things contrary to the truth.
There are many teachers who teach contrary to the truth (online and offline).
There are many prophets who prophesy contrary to the truth.
In the middle of all these falsehoods, what keeps you going? What are you reminded of in the scriptures that confirms your belief and denies others that would led you away.
What keeps you keeping on!
When you believe a scripture is true, what keeps you from compromising that belief?
Proverbs chapter 2 is a reminder to me sometimes.
What reminds you?
Antaiwan
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Maybe it's not for no reason that Scripture contrasts not just gold with stubble, but gold, silver and precious jewels--all of which will pass the test, but aren't equal--with wood, hay, and stubble which are also not equal, except that they will burn up in the end.
I'm also grounded by remembering that God has already to one degree or another given 'us' a spirit of discernment. Not in the 'holy-ghosty' ""pentecostal"" way, but in a way that matters. If He hadn't, we would all still be in babylon. There are still spirits to test and plenty of obstacles to overcome, red-herrings to stop following, false prophets and prophecies to expose, and idols of the heart to topple. Though it's not possible for the Elect to be decieved, it is through many trials one enters the kingdom.
Dennis and Craig also keep me grounded. ;D
I hope that makes some sense, and actually addresses your question. If not, burn it now.
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This keeps me grounded, there's others but this one is the one.
Isa 45:7 Forming light, and preparing darkness, Making peace, and preparing evil, I am Jehovah, doing all these things.'
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Hi Antaiwan,
I am very aware of the fact that I have nothing to do with the faith and understanding that I have received regarding spiritual truths. It is all a gift from my Creator. I can only be planted in these truths if it is God's will that I am. This is enough to keep me grounded and humbled. :)
John 5:30 - "I can of mine own do nothing..." (KJV)
Ephesians 2:8 - "For ye are saved by grace through faith; and this not of yourselves; it is a gift of God." (Darby)
René
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I'm slightly uncomfortable with calling anything "truth". I wouldnt admit to knowing anything is true only what i believe is the best explanation for all the chaos that surrounds us.
For me, its the belief that there really is no free will. I see it every day. All around me. I see people react predictably, even myself. When i analyse the make up of things, my mind doesnt comprehend that it came from nowhere. Some things that happen in my life too i believe are also not down to coincidence - but that something has made it so.
These are the basics for me.
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For me, it is the desire of being a good and faithful servant. It is one of my prayers to Him that if it be His will that His Truth not be stolen/taken from me.
It would also be the desire to know Him - as much as anyone is able to in this side of the resurrection (either one). God is truly awe-inspiring, and I only wish to know Him more and more (if He will let me), and have His ways become my ways.
In Him,
John
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I too struggle with saying I know the truth. I know how many times I have been humbled and found out how ignorant I really was. I must still learn the truth (Jesus) and honestly it is very difficult. What keeps me grounded is the many humbling events that come along in my life. "Thy will be done" is the main scripture that hits me all the time. It all boils down to that for me.
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Hi Antaiwan,
I agree with Rene :D
The Sovereignty of God
Math 6:10…Thy Will be done
1 Cor. 4:7 … And if everything you have is from God, why boast as though it were not a gift? …or what have you that has not been given to you?
John 5:30 I can of my own will do nothing
Isa 45:7.. Forming light and preparing darkness, making peace, and preparing evil, I am Jehovah, doing all these things (this also from Micah)
Blessings.
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Hi Antaiwan,
1Co 1:24 But to them, the called-out ones, both Jews and Greeks, Christ is the power of God and the wisdom of God.
v. 25 Because the foolish thing of God is wiser than men, and the weak thing of God is stronger than men.
v. 26 For you see your calling, brothers, that not many wise men according to the flesh are called, not many mighty, not many noble.
v. 27 But God has chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God has chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;
v. 28 and God has chosen the base things of the world, and things which are despised, and things which are not, in order to bring to nothing things that are;
v. 29 so that no flesh should glory (boast) in His presence.
v. 30 But of Him you are in Christ Jesus, who of God is made to us wisdom and righteousness and sanctification and redemption;
v. 31 so that, according as it is written, "He who glories, let him glory in the Lord."
This is the passage by which I believe that there is a real posiblity of my being chosen... foolish - weak - base - despised, which I can realate to being all of these things very well and understand how a nobody like myself with absolutely no talents or abilities could be chosen to be apart of all this.
Also it shows me how it is that any good thing could come from me... "so that no flesh should glory (boast) in His presence... But of HIM you are IN Christ"... it's ALL of God, "you are IN Christ Jesus." That's how I have hope and confidence in my worthless self, because of this Scripture showing it's not about ME, it's all about the Holy Spirit of JESUS CHRIST indwelling.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
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Hi Akira, what keeps me grounded? What keeps me serving God and not quiting, (for oh how I have wanted to quit.) That would have to be the understanding(partial) God has given me about His Grace. A guy named Keith Green sang a song called 'By grace I stand' that brings it all home to me. Part of it saies: 'Nothing lasts except the grace of God by which I stand in Jesus...I know that I would surely fall away except for grace by which I'm saved.' The fact that I'm still hungry for His presents is an ever reminder that He's still drawing me to Himself. I know that He has been very patient with me. He knows I'm retarded.
loven
Stan
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In light of our marathon race, what keeps your feet planted to the truths you have learned?
There are many who come and go from this forum and teach things contrary to the truth.
There are many teachers who teach contrary to the truth (online and offline).
There are many prophets who prophesy contrary to the truth.
In the middle of all these falsehoods, what keeps you going? What are you reminded of in the scriptures that confirms your belief and denies others that would led you away.
What keeps you keeping on!
When you believe a scripture is true, what keeps you from compromising that belief?
Proverbs chapter 2 is a reminder to me sometimes.
What reminds you?
Antaiwan
Firstly, Excellent Thread Antaiwan,
For Me Antaiwan, I don't believe it's one particular thing that keeps Me grounded in these Truths, it's all the pieces of the Puzzle that fit together in harmony. The fact God is Totally 100 % Sovereign of the Universe and Declares the beginning and end of every matter is foremost in My Heart. I now desire to do right in itself, not out of fear, like before when I felt I had to avoid Sinning or else. The paranoia of Life's grave difficulties have lessened for Me as a result of this New confidence. I want to please God, because He has a Plan that seems to be allot more sensible than the one I used to think He had. There were too many Loopholes in the way I used to understand the Scriptures and too many unanswered questions.
Even though, prior to discovering Bible Truths I had already embraced the Eventual Salvation of All, I continued to search for deeper and more thorough answers to this Truth. Ray's Free Will Series and His subsequent explanation of this Topic including foremost, The Sovereignty of God plus presenting the harmonious balance between Responsibility on God's part and Accountability on Our part probably was and is a main contributor towards keeping Me grounded and continuing to stay grounded in these Truth's.
The information and the explanation contained at this Site to my knowledge is the most accurate representation of what's commonly referred to as Universalism, although I don't really go by labels anymore. As some of Our Forum Members (Ones that know Me Well) can attest to, I have taken the opportunity over the last Five Years to examine a variety of Universalist information from other Sites, You-Tube, Universalist Author Index, studying various writers like Andrew Jukes, Thomas Allin, Ernest Martin, Gary Amirault, Alexander Thomson, Origen, Clement of Alexandria, Gregory of Nyssa, Macrina The Blessed, John Wesley Hanson, Hosea Ballou and many others, Yet, out of spending time examining all this information over the Years, the information contained here best represents the most accurate explanation of these Truths with further developed details.
Anyway, Antaiwan, that about sums it up for now, thanks for starting this Thread, Samson.
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In the middle of the night when thoughts go wild, I begin a mental gratitude list (often alphabetical), thanking God for His attributes, people, and things. It immediately reins in thoughts about creaking floors and "monsters under the bed." I find myself doing this during the day when I'm perplexed. It's like being wrapped up in a big blanket of Joy.
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To me, the Spirit of God through Jesus Christ in the Church is what grounds us. (me)
Paul wrote in 1 Timothy 3:14-15
14-These things write I unto thee, hoping to come unto thee shortly:
15-But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the Church of the living God, the pillar and (stay, or, undergirding ) ground of the truth.
Acts 2:47 says that the Lord added to the Church daily such as should be saved.
I believe by faith that The Lord is still adding to the Church in our day through Ray's teachings, and maybe others also.
Ray ask in the lake of fire series- part 8, "Where is the Church that Jesus built?" I hope that God has given me an ear to hear what the Spirit says unto the Churches. I feel that he has. :)
Joel
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First, i would have to say my relationship with Him ideally: us talking together. reading the Holy Bible and by the things that i have experience. Good question.
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Gravity.
But I'm kinduva literal guy.
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Hi All
As for me coming to the knowledge of Christ Jesus as espoused in bt, having an understanding for the first time what the scripture that calls those who labor to take Jesus yoke, for He is humble, meek and knowing his yoke is a joint effort has been liberating, I have peace within me which words fail to explain, i am at peace with myself and that grounds me like a tree in a well established area, knowing Christ conquered the world on our behalf does it just as well for me, after all there is no condemnation on those who are in Christ!
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Hello, everyone!
What keeps me grounded? That is a good question and a hard one too. I have the fact that I have learned that all will be saved keeps grounded in away. For some reason that verse stuck with me the most. It makes me look at things differently. Knowing that even the stranger walking down the street who probably never heard of our Heavenly Father will be saved keeps my feet and my head pretty much on the ground.
On a more personal, note and Antaiwan I know this probably isn't what you meant but my wonderful and lloving husband keeps me grounded has well. He is the one thing that keeps very grounded. Without him I believe I would actually be looking at a rubber room!
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When I continually try to live righteously but still find myself continually messing up, I come to the powerful realization that I am indeed nothing without the Lord. That makes me feel like the scum of the earth and keeps me truly grounded - to the extent of feeling like a piece of crap "grounded" into the sod:)
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I really appreciated everyones comments!! ;D
Thanks guys!
Antaiwan
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What can I do to keep me up when I am down? What trump cards, quotes or Scriptures do I keep as my emergency kit or band aid remedy against the position of being crucified, mentally emotionally or physically?
I don’t have anything. I am totally emptied in such circumstances. No words, no sayings and no nothing. I have been crucified to the point of blitzing pain, that shows me I can do nothing to avoid it or fight it. I know what it’s like.
so find death, before it finds you.
I always hesitate to post anything as it seems my postings are always in a negative aura. Some folks find long lasting solace and comfort from words in a book, I rarely do, or that lasts for very long anyway. But I do enjoy chiming in when the meat of matters gets discussion because sometimes that's where the soul of the matter is, not in words but in experience. Arcturus hit a large reservoir.
Arcturus, I understand the words above. Those words don’t, at least in my experience, necessarily mean a physical pain although often, and for many, it does. And for those who are in that journey I’m a small man for speaking any words that should matter. But then again, for now, I understand these words as a depiction of a human emotional sub-structural, soul dis-orienting, devastation. And actually, that too can lead to a deep physical pain. Either journey can be death while walking earth.
On the emotional level and in my thoughts a fine example of this type would be growing up in the ‘church’ and believing in the power of prayer for good things and un-confessed sins are the certain cause of the absence of anything good from God.
But then……God willing....? one is lead to find that there really is no free-will, all in life is at the helm and reigns of God. Good….bad…doesn’t matter because it’s all ‘cause and effect’. Some course of plan that was pre-constructed long before any earthly father had the twinkle. That’s when the emotional, sub-structure, confidence draining, death, begins. Begins. Length of time in this journey is beyond human control. This is the place where one harbors for some time (and not necessarily by intention) and takes stock of a lifetime of experience(s) both the good and the bad and fights some sort of sub-demonizing battle of daily attempts to mesh all experiences with the underlying ‘good’ intentions of a ‘loving and merciful’ God, and all the while watching the destruction of the human conjured ‘faith base’. Human genesis faith is pathetic and simply untrue. This is where a ‘believer’ begins the search to understand exactly what a ‘vessel of dis-honor’ really means. Think Pharoah. Was Pharoah any different that any one of us? I no longer believe that for a second of time.
Circumstances matter.
And to me this is yet another area of where the rubber meets the road. As Ray has written, one can lose respect for God. One can learn hate for God. And I don’t mean a blue-light K-mart cheap hate. I mean a real mess of hate, strangely dis-orienting but significant in a weird and yet to understand kind of way. Don’t think this dis-orientation could happen to you?....it happened to Paul. Just like Paul on the road, he was dis-oriented and couldn’t see physically. But his spiritual sight got keen enough and then he experienced much physical pain. Not that we’re Paul, just that no one could convince me that this ‘loving and merciful’ God doesn’t work in that manner.
When one attempts to reconcile this ‘loving and merciful’ God and his wonderful plan while he’s took, or taking away good things of this silly life and surely ahead of any reasonable timing, one begins to lose faith fast. Right down to the point of truly wondering if there really is a ‘creator’, or, if we’re just some plasma happenstance from planet chance-a-tron. That’s a dark matrix hole if there ever was one. No human brain has been invented that can score even close to a 100 in the arena of reconciliation of human action and God’s purpose. I'm beginning to believe that maybe that's what Paul was talking about when he referenced "unspeakable words" about "paradise".
I said this in another post and there’s only 1 verse that comes to me that can, perhaps, if it is supposed to be so, guard a soul when this type of destruction happens:
Psalms 23:4. Death valley. There is no shadow of 'IF' there.
I believe in the physical world we ALL walk there as long as we breathe. But the emotional trip is a faith tripper, damn near filled with nothing but stumbling stones. In your words here Arcturus:
“This is the die before you die, kind of pain of death. It is said, death will find you. Eventually it will catch up to you,……”
There are some here who will read this and say, “oh, just negative”, he doesn’t understand what “we” understand that God is so loving and merciful, why just look at that book with all that beautiful prose and heart stuff and all those parables he has yet to understand and "oh lookie here, here's another neat word!". Really? Pharisee. If you’re one who thinks it, don’t be so quick to judge until your walk comes. And the sad part is when this road has taken you to the point of simply not giving a sh*@t about anything, including the supposed ‘loving and merciful’ God, the same God who, as a kid, would pray and have mighty confidence, who made all things for a strict purpose, you can believe nothing else matters.
Even Job cursed the day he was born.
A couple of things for sure, if God finishes what he starts then this is where he starts it, in my opinion. And the other thing is, when he wants to crush to powder, there's not a damn thing anyone can do about it. Strangely the hope becomes a rose of joy. If there's any one thing I'm beginning to believe without doubt it's this, there is a beast and it's me. And oddly enough I'm beginning to believe the lake of fire is exactly what I deserve based on what I see, but I look so forward to life ? after purification.
Sorry folks, it's Arcturus's fault............ ;D
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Well, I wasn't closing out the topic, if anybody else has comments they're more than welcome!
I do want to say what I'm looking for:
I'm looking for examples of times when you thought what you believed was being challenged by another belief but something brought you back to what you believed was true. (I assume you believe scripture is true, if not you can't help me)
The simplest example would be Jesus being tempted in the wilderness. His comfort was in what is true(scripture)
Have your foundational beliefs been challenged?
Has anyone tried to tell you different but your comfort was in what you believe to be truth
(assuming you believe scripture is truth!)
What scripture kept you from yielding to temptation?
What scripture kept you from changing your mind?
I hope this helps give a clear picture.
I thank the ones who have answered so far!
Keep the topic rolling if you like!
Antaiwan
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Akira329,
Even if someone believes the scriptures are true, that doesn't mean they understand them correctly. Many here believed the scriptures were true and yet they now believe something else. So I guess what your asking is what scriptures that help you in your current understanding? Your post confuses me because it seems to imply "what you believe to be truth" and the truth of the scriptures. These are two complete different things. Could you clear this up for me?
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Nevermind,
I also assumed we on this site believed the same things.
Carry on.....
Antaiwan
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Nevermind,
I also assumed we on this site believed the same things.Carry on.....
Antaiwan
Allow me to apologize for the prior hijacking of your thread Antaiwan. I was responding to Arcuturus more than to your original posting and question, sorry, although I did give a scripture as a required response.
I understand what you’re saying. It appears you and maybe others want to know words to make all things assured and confident on a steady basis, words that can be recalled, at will, so sinking ground appears solid. Nothing wrong with that, who doesn’t, me included. Every bookstore has shelf-loads of ‘self-help’ books with solid sounding words, but I’ll bet the overall success rate of any is laughable.
My thrust of response back to Arc was that somewhere down the road one will come to where words of scripture and life, or life experiences, don’t exactly neatly parallel like you once believed they should no matter how hard one tries to make it so. Suddenly words that can be recalled, by the human will, don’t look and feel so solid because the human understanding and God’s purpose appear to be at war. It’s then the words that can be recalled by the human will aren’t enough and one wants and needs a stirring in the soul kind of hearing. The challenge isn’t so much a mountain of ‘word ’ to be learned, leaned on, and recalled but a mountain of empathy, sympathy and compassion to be felt. When Arcturus mentioned the “die before you die”, that’s what came to mind. Jesus knew words too, but he always showed an endless supply of compassion. That’s where the solid is in my opinion. It measures up to this crusty so and so, just not to your thread.
People are introduced into this forum every day with a ‘different’ set of beliefs…………….and THEN we begin to learn in cohesion. To assume we’re all on the same page at the same time is presumptuous.
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great topic! I have enjoyed the posts.
I don't even know if I am grounded!! Had it not been for the structure of 30 years in Babylon I don't know if I could have kept up "no structure" for these last 6 years w/ Ray.
Some of my Babylonian friends think I am def. backslidden! For a year and a half I have attended a women's bible study every week (just to go out to lunch w/ some old friends). Fortunately it is not very doctrinal nor very deep so I can stomach it. At lunch, the gals and I just don't mention certain "topics" that they know I don't agree with. but at least this makes me get into scripture.
I just believe what I believe, I know what I know and try to live my life. I don't formally "pray" that much unless I have said I would for someone. I love Jesus and hope that is enough. For 30 years I DID christianity, now I am trying to LIVE it- not by preaching to my neighbors but by being a good neigbor.
That kind of thing! simple and basic....some would look and say she is doing nothing! ha
I got an e mail today from a cousin I haven't seen in 10 years but when she was a child I "led her to the Lord". Apparently she never forgot. She asked me today if God would get tired of her excuses of a sorry life and wash His hands of her!!!
I wrote her of His neverending Love affair w/ us and she responded so happy and full of awe for Jesus. So maybe I don't just do nothing! Again, simple and basic.
Haven't been on in awhile. this was a great thread.
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Hello all,
Great reading all of your posts! My husband and I have been commenting to each other as I have been reading this to him. His reply to the question posed was....."The big picture". Seeing, living and learning every day more about God and His "Big picture".
The journey has been a difficult one. So many people think we are heretics for believing in the salvation of all. It feels like we are "outsiders" in many instances. But neither of us would trade the blessing of this knowledge for anything the world has to offer, that is for sure!
We love you all. It is such a blessing to be able to "be" with people of like mind! Prayers for our dear sweet Ray and "Keep your eye on the prize"!
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gina, your post spoke volumes in its' simplicity. i have missed your sweet, simple words.
claudia
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Hello folks,
Lots to consider in the many points offered here. All for our mutual benefit.
I'm leaning toward the simple, for my own life.
The simple truths are really all we need aren't they? We have been gifted with belief.
We found that God has a plan and as someone has said, "God doesn't play dice with the Universe."
The truth that has impressed me the most is that my ancestors and my children and I "shall be in Paradise with Lord Jesus when he comes into his Kingdom". Does any thing else really matter that much?
Does it really concern me overly much whether I shall serve God as one of the elect in the first, the better resurrection or instead serve God through the Lake of Fire after the chaff has been driven out or purged away?
Please don't misunderstand my attitude. I am supremely grateful for the calling that I believe that I have been given. However, that appreciation and the God given or human desire to measure up to God's expectations for me, which after all is His work in me and not of my own effort alone and may be mixed with no small measure of ego to be candid about it, is still a fate that I can be satisfied with and live with in full contentment.
I don't know my fate or my future absolutely, I just know that I shall die and that God shall resurrect me and purge all sin out of me if that is yet necessary and I shall be a new creature with my heart of stone replaced with a heart of love.
I will be re-introduced to all my relatives past and future and we shall have so much to share and learn to appreciate that my life will be full every moment of the day as I fulfill the tasks that Lord Jesus places before me.
Indiana Bob
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Amen Indiana Bob, that's a excellent Micah 6:8 attitude toward this whole thing you have there. Nicely put.
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Gravity baby, Gravity. And even that don't stop me sometimes.
Longhorn
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Thanks Claudia! Miss you! Wish there was a conference to look forward to! sometimes I think my posts are a tad too simple ;)
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The knowledge that we have no free will and that EVERYTHING that happens is of God. Even when I try to deny it I can't, once you see this you can't un-see it.
This knowledge is basically the only thing that stops me going off the edge. Especially that I am back in the world getting drunk and hating God for putting us through so much evil.... round and round we go.
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I feel like I'm always being to colorful or loud when talking about these things. Like I'm boasting but I say this without it.
Music. My spirit is restless, my body is restless, i've been told i'm "ADHD." So I suppose restless is the perfect word for me.
YET their are certain sounds, certain musical tracks that will just bring my mind to an absolutely peaceful place and often times this place is filled with thoughts of our Father. It's the most beautiful place, filling me with the most beautiful filling. For reasons I just don't understand, I've tried but I can't, I don't, the Lord has never let me trully escape Him and I am thankful beyond tears for His absolutely undescrible love that no words could ever describe. In fact, even the most precise and powerful words feel empty and short in trying to describe how vast and without bounds His love trully is. It's a place I love going to, a place I love being in.
That's what keeps me grounded, His love.
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That's what keeps me grounded, His love.
Beautifully stated, Alex! :)
René