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=> General Discussions => Topic started by: hillsbororiver on December 03, 2007, 05:36:21 PM
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There has been alot of stuff rolling through my mind lately, in discussions about the unity of the messages contained within The Parables, the following verse was presented in regard to how it relates to the 1st Adam and the 2nd Adam, our carnal nature and Christ within.
Does anyone see where I am going with this? Remember scripture is more often than not many layered with types and shadows throughout.
Rom 9:21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honor, and another unto dishonor?
Any and all comments will be appreciated and respected.
His Peace and Wisdom to you,
Joe
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No takers yet I see, ;) take a look at the key words (in bold).
Rom 9:21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honor, and another unto dishonor?
His Peace and Wisdom to you,
Joe
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That's really interesting Joe... I'm currently taking a course entitled "The Formation of the Christian Tradition".
It's interesting how so many people through the ages have attempted to explain the union between the divine and the human within the Savior, Jesus Christ.
I'm sure I don't have to tell you that we haven't studied an answer that is even nearly adequate in explaining this miraculous union.
I believe this verse you have pointed out has illuminated some things within my own thought process... Thanks again for sharing the things you find within the scriptures, Joe... they are always a constant help to me in my own journey.
God's Peace.
Josh
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The difference between the clay used to make the vessel of honour and the clay used to make the vessel of dishonour is none. The difference is only found in the process of firing the clay properly, which gives it the lasting strength and durability. If I am to be used as a vessel of honour, I too need to be subject to God's refining fire. It doesn't mean that I'm any better or different than someone else, but only proves it is God who decides who goes through the fire and when. Without the "kiln" process, no one could be a vessel of honour.
Is that sort of where you're going with this Joe?
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Hi Josh and Gregor,
Thank you for the responses and kind words.
Gregor, I don't want to get too cryptic here but you are getting close as to the "Fire" and it's effect on one part and a totally different effect on the other. We can get back to that a little later.
The following verses are often used (among others) by proponants of the rapture theory/doctrine, but they are much deeper than those folks are aware of, back when I was considering the rapture and verses such as these I wondered why it seemed that 50% of the population were to be "taken away" when the teaching is that only a very few would be "raptured."
Luk 17:34 I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.
Luk 17:35 Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Luk 17:36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
His Peace and Wisdom to you,
Joe
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Perhaps you're referring to the carnal nature and the spiritual nature (Christ in us) at war in our members (the same lump or "heart")??
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Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
Col 3:10 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:
1Pe 3:4 But let it be the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price.
Bingo Gregor!
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Luk 17:34 I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken (WHERE?), and the other shall be left (WHERE?).
Luk 17:35 Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken (WHERE?), and the other left (WHERE?).
Luk 17:36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken (WHERE?), and the other left (WHERE?).
37 And they answered and said to Him, “Where, Lord?”
In context, the reference is to "as in the days of the flood". Those that were taken away were those who perished. Those that were left, were those who were saved in the ark. So does this contradict the popular rapture theory that the "good" are raptured leaving the "bad" behind? I see it the complete opposite (correct me if I'm wrong). Isn't it the first Adam that is destroyed and the second Adam (Christ in us) who remains?
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Isn't it the first Adam that is destroyed and the second Adam (Christ in us) who remains?
Bingo once again!
Joh 3:30 He must increase, but I must decrease.
1Co 5:7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:
2Co 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
Eph 4:24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
His Peace and Wisdom to you,
Joe
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In context, the reference is to "as in the days of the flood". Those that were taken away were those who perished. Those that were left, were those who were saved in the ark. So does this contradict the popular rapture theory that the "good" are raptured leaving the "bad" behind?
Sorry Gregor I missed this the first time around, no, those on the Ark were taken (above the earth) those who were left became (returned to) the dust of the earth, the new man (in Christ, Christ within) is taken to a higher realm than the old, carnal, earthly man whose flesh (sinful nature) is consumed by the same Fire that his spirit is purified in.
My point in referencing the rapture was that the two in the field actually represents one person, not as rapture proponants teach.
Peace,
Joe
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1Pe 3:4 But let it be the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price.
Ahhhh back to the Parables.......
Mat 13:44 Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto treasure hid in a field; the which when a man hath found, he hideth, and for joy thereof goeth and selleth all that he hath, and buyeth that field.
Mat 13:45 Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a merchant man, seeking goodly pearls:
Mat 13:46 Who, when he had found one pearl of great price, went and sold all that he had, and bought it.
His Peace and Wisdom to you,
Joe
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My point in referencing the rapture was that the two in the field actually represents one person, not as rapture proponants teach.
Ok, I see where you're coming from.
Back to the verses you referenced in Luke 17, they're followed by this parable:
vs. 37 And they answered and said to Him, “Where, Lord?”
So He said to them, “Wherever the body is, there the eagles will be gathered together.”
Any idea as to which "body" is being referred to here, and what the eagles might represent? Is Jesus refering to the heavenlies ie: where eagles gather? Thanks in advance.
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Hi Gregor,
(CLV) Luke 17:37 And answering, they are saying to Him, "Where, Lord? Yet He said to them, "Wherever the body is, there the vultures also will be assembled."
This sounds like it's talking about putting to death out carnal flesh, that is why there are vultures gathered.
1Peter 3:18 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit,
Joe, this is a very interesting subject.
My point in referencing the rapture was that the two in the field actually represents one person, not as rapture proponants teach.
I could never figure what that was talking about, but what you have said must be right.
1Co 5:7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:
2Co 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
And these Scriptures that you brought out, they are pointing to destroying the 1st Adam and purging the old leaven, so that we become a new creature. Doesn't it have the same meaning as this verse in Luke.
Luk 17:31 On that day, let him who is on the housetop, with his goods in the house, not come down to take them away; and likewise let him who is in the field not turn back.
Luk 17:32 Remember Lot's wife.
When Christ comes to you, you can not turn back, there is nothing of the old self that you should desire.
Luk 17:33 Whoever tries to keep his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life will preserve it.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
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I think this fits the theme of what you have discovered Joe.
Abigail humbled herself before King David, admitted her husband Nabel was foolish and wicked and she took responsibility for his errors and asked David for pardon and absolution. She received the mercy and grace of peace from King David and when she told Nabel this is what had happened his "heart died within him" 1 Samuel 25:37. Ten days later he was dead and Abigale became the wife of King David.
Our carnal hearts have to die within us and Christ's Life has to rise within.
Rev 2 : 28 And I will give him the Morning Star.
Rev 22 : 16 I Jesus have sent My messenger to you to witness and to give you assurance of these things for the churches, I am the Root and the Offspring of David, the radiant and brilliant Morning Star.
Isa 11 : 10 And it shall be in that day that the Root of Jesse shall stand as a signal for the peoples; of Him shall the nations inquire and seek knowledge and His dwelling shall be glory, His rest glorious!
Just having listened to Ray's teaching on the Sabbath REST, brings to mind that the circumcised are those who know God is Sovereign and for me it is this knowledge that rises up to bring rest to the soul and death to carnal works.
Thanks for a beautiful thread Joe.
Peace be to you
Arcturus :)
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Hi Gregor,
Kat gave you the answer, this verse (Luke 17:37) you quoted is translated to vultures or buzzards in most translations not eagles. The old man dies and is consumed as the new man begins true life.
Hello Kat, your synopsis and additional scripture fits right in here, it underlines that once this process begins there is no turning back, beautiful!
Hey Arcturus, I really like what you presented from 1 Samuel in regard to Abigail and David, yes I see the correlation there. By the way at the Conference during some early morning and late hours in my motel room I found both books of Samuel fascinating, some things were just jumping off the page. I have plenty of notes perhaps I will start some topics for us to search out in Samuel 1 & 2.
Thank you all for your responses and contributions.
His Peace and Wisdom to you,
Joe
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This is a portion from LOF Part 14
(The Beast Within) http://bible-truths.com/lake14.html
"Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfill all the good pleasure of His goodness, and the work of faith with power: THAT the Name of our Lord Jesus Christ may be GLORIFIED IN YOU [IN YOU], and YE IN HIM, according to the grace of our God and the Lord Jesus Christ" (II Thes. 1:11-12)!!
How then does our Apostle Paul tell us this MUST be accomplished? What must happen? What must we do? Or rather what must Jesus do IN US? Here is the Scriptural answer:
"Now we beseech YOU, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto Him.
That ye be not soon shaken in mind or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that THE DAY OF CHRIST [The Day of the Lord] is at hand [FOR YOU...].
Let no man deceive YOU by any means: for that day shall not come [TO YOU…] except there come a FALLING AWAY FIRST [BY YOU…], and the man of sin be revealed the son of perdition [IN YOU…TO YOU…]; Who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped [IN YOU…]; so that he as God sits in the temple of God [‘which temple YE ARE’ II Cor. 6:16] showing himself that HE IS [YOU ARE / I AM] a god
Remember ye not, that when I was yet with YOU, I told YOU these things?
And now ye know what withholds [is restraining, is detaining—‘the falling away FIRST’] that he [‘the man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition’—YOU…] might be revealed in his time [in YOU and TO YOU—individually, not collectively] in his time [‘his {particular} time’]—FOR YOU and FOR ME and for ALL BELIEVERS IN ALL GENERATIONS UNTIL JESUS COMES TO US ALL, COLLECTIVELY, AS THE MANIFEST SONS OF GOD]."
Long before Jesus can have a COMPANY of manifest SONS and DAUGHTERS of God, there has to be individual begettals by the Holy Spirit of God in chosen individuals in every generation leading up to the coming of the Lord at the end of this age.
"For the mystery [secret, hidden truth] of iniquity [lawlessness] does already work [‘is inwardly working’ The Emphasized New Testament: A New Translation (J. B. Rotherham)]: only he who now lets will let [‘only he who restrains will do so’], until he be taken out of the way.
And then shall that Wicked [Lawless One] be revealed IN [IN YOU] and TO YOU, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit [breath] of His mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming;
Even him [not original], whose coming [the man of sin called son of perdition IN YOU] is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders" (II Thes. 2:1-9).
LET ME KNOW
Are you beginning to SEE IT? Is God giving you understanding? Do you see the grand and marvelous wisdom of it all? Drop me an email—let me know. I want to know how many out there in computerland are beginning to have ears to hear and eyes to see.
THANK GOD, that I (L. Ray Smith) had fallen away, left my first love, looked back, forsook the Lord, and watched my house upon the sand come crashing down! Only then was I able to stand upon the sand of the sea, and see the beast within, the man of sin, the son of perdition, and Satan the devil who DECEIVED ME!
But NOW, "I am crucified WITH Christ: nevertheless I live: yet not I, but Christ lives IN ME: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith OF the Son of God, who loved ME [and YOU], and gave Himself for ME [and YOU]" (Gal. 2:20).
In conclusion:
"I was in the Spirit on the Lord’s day, and heard BEHIND me a great voice, as of a trumpet… And I turned to see the voice that spoke with ME. And being TURNED, I saw seven gold candlesticks; [the complete church of God in all generations, with MY sins outlined in each and every one of them] And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle.
His head and His hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and His eyes were as a flame of fire; [PURGING all who look upon Him] And His feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned [refined] in a furnace; and His voice as the sound of many waters. And he had in His right hand seven stars: and out of His mouth went a sharp two-edged sword, and His countenance was as the SUN SHINING IN HIS STRENGTH [no longer a physical body with HOLES in it].
And when I saw Him [in my SPIRIT] I fell at His feet as DEAD. And He laid His right hand upon ME [as He will upon YOU], saying unto ME [and unto YOU],
FEAR NOT" (Rev. 1:10-17).
Truly: "We have seen the enemy and he is US."
His Peace and Wisdom to you,
Joe
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Sorry Gregor I missed this the first time around, no, those on the Ark were taken (above the earth) those who were left became (returned to) the dust of the earth, the new man (in Christ, Christ within) is taken to a higher realm than the old, carnal, earthly man whose flesh (sinful nature) is consumed by the same Fire that his spirit is purified in.
My point in referencing the rapture was that the two in the field actually represents one person, not as rapture proponants teach.
Peace,
Joe
Hi Joe, yes I've been seeing this for some time now. This thread only confirms further what the Lord has been telling me.
Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Luke 17:35
one grinding the other in refinement....
one shall be taken (to receive near, that is, associate with oneself (in any familiar or intimate act or relation); by analogy to assume an office; figuratively to learn)...
the other left (to send forth, forsake, lay aside, leave, , omit, put (send) away, remit, suffer, yield up)
depart from me workers of lawlessness (within)
our minds elevated to join in an intimate act to the mind of Christ and the carnal man returns to the dust from which it came
Peace,
Diana
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Thank you for posting that additional teaching from Ray Joe. It adds emphasis for me that our thoughts are not God's thoughts and our ways are not God's ways. The mind of Christ is Christs and He imparts His Mind to us by His Spirit. Our mind dies daily or finally at the LOF under judgment that purges, purifies,perfects, heals and restors us from vanity, slavery, and corruption of our weak foolish and wicked self deception that is empowered by the illusion of free will.
Joe, I believe that your idea to present thoughts from your notes you made regarding Samuel is wonderful. I have more recently presented in the Forum questions I have had and the membership you and Kat have helped me to grasp a deeper insight and belief through the use of the tools of understanding Gods Word that Ray has taught added with Ray's teachings. The caution and council through knowing that the scriptures are not an interpretation to themselves but are discerned through witness of other scripture that is the Spirit of Christ revelations in Truth and the council of the brethren is I believe is a wise way to tread. We might believe we have nailed a truth, but through discernment of like minded brethren, second witness of the Scriptures and teachings from Ray we may have missed the mark completely or be on the right track. Either way it is profitable to know which way we are heading and thinking by using the eyes and ears of our like minded brothers and sisters.
Being teachable to the witness of the Spirit and Mind of Christ as presented in the Word of God and Rays teachings and tools given to us by Ray to help us to understand the Word of God, I believe we have a good team to bring strength in wise council regarding our efforts to comprehend, study and know God.
I believe it to be more mature to assist this direction without distractions of opinions and errors to deception. We have ample teachings and revelations we can all participate as we exercise what we have been called to understand here in BT in order to help one another come to a better aquiantance and knowledge of God.
Peace be to you
Arcturus :)
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What does this verse actually mean?
Joh 3:30
He must increase, but I must decrease.
The concordant renders it:
He must be growing, yet mine it is to be inferior.
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Great post...I just wanted to "bump" it up to the top so the newer members can see.
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Uh! I never quite got what the thread was about; I got left behind. But...that's OK! That's why I'm studying my Bible - I need to catch up! What Arcturus said sounds like good and interesting evaluation, though.
Keep it up, Dudes and Dudesses!!! ;D
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Joe, Gregor, Kat, Arcturus, how old are you? Spiritually I mean?
Thanks for the postings. Eye openers.
Back to the LOF...the series I mean
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Hi kweli,
I can't speak for the rest but I am but a toddler who still soils his diapers all too often. ;)
His Peace to you Brother,
Joe
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You are a toddler hey Joe! ;D :D My Dear Brother, I have not been born yet!! :D ;D I am getting there though.... ;) :)
Peace to you Kweli....
Arcturus :)
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After rethinking my rather off handed response to kweli's question I thought some clarifying was in order, as far as being "spiritual" goes I am only conceived in the spirit at best while in this flesh. It would have been better had I given a bit more consideration to my words.
What I actually meant was that I believe my understanding of the Word has grown from only being able to digest milk I am now able to process small amounts of meat as well. The incredible truth of the matter is that for every bit of new understanding comes more and more questions and a deeper acknowledgement of how little I really know.
Looking back I can see clearly so many errors in my beliefs and actions.
Sorry for any confusion my post might have generated.
His Peace to you,
Joe
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Hi Joe,
I read the posts of "First Adam/Second Adam", this is my first time to read this subject. Are you saying like First Adam is in man's flesh and Second Adam is still same man's flesh before he die? But not spirutal body as resurrection (second Adam)?
Am I right understand you or am I off?
Thanks Joe,
Brett
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Hey Joe
If I may just add something here ahead of your response. Sorry Brett but I found this that might help.
There is a first, second and THIRD in the process by which all shall be made alive in Christ. Here is how Ray puts it.
....the King James translations is no particular help. Let's read from another version: "Yet each in his own class: [1] the Firstfruit, Christ: [2] there upon those who are Christ's in His presence; [3] thereafter the consummation" (1 Cor. 15.22, Concordant Literal New Testament). The "putting down of His enemies" in verse 25 is the process by which "all shall be made alive IN Christ."
God be with you,
Ray
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,1431.0.html
In another responce to a personal question I emailed to Ray, he says quote : Although it is true that Jesus has already come to us as a "Comforter," and we are not "IN CHRIST," nonetheless, it does not yet appear what we shall be like when He returns to us and for us: 1 John 3 : 1-2
In another jewel of an insight Ray shared with me in response to another question I sent him via email he wrote back quote:
Jesus is the Alpha and the Omega--the Beginning and the End.
Adam was flesh and blood--Jesus was made flesh and blood.
Adam was the son of God (Luke 3:38)--Jesus was the Son of God (Heb. 1:5)
Adam died--Jesus died.
All die in Adam (1 Cor. 15:22)--Jesus being of Adam and made flesh also DIED.
But Jesus has been resurrected to immortality--the "last Adam."
But notice carefully that Jesus is called the "LAST" Adam,
but He is called the "SECOND" man, not the "last" man,
as there will follow many more brothers and sisters (2Cor. 6 : 18, etc.)
God be with you,
Ray
My notes after this email edification came were as follows.
1 Cor 15 : 45. The first man Adam was made a living soul: the last Adam was a quickening Spirit.
The first man was (formed 1 Tim 2 : 13 For Adam was first formed...) from out of the earth, made of dust: the second Man is the Lord.
It is not the spiritual life that came first, but the physical and THEN THE SPIRITUAL.
I sincerely hope this adds and is helpful to the insights that Brett has asked you to share with us Joe.
Peace to you
Arcturus :)
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Hi Joe,
Of the same lump of clay......(wow - I have never seen it before now)
Rom 9:21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honor, and another unto dishonor?
Does the lump of clay represent mankind or each individual?
I have read the response to this posting and I am fascinated by the replies. I hope someone can answer my question.
Love
Heidi
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Hi again Joe
When I opened up this thread, it opened on my response I posted on December 4th last year. By contrast I can see how much my views have changed.
Abigale appeased King David. Won his favor and then she went back to her husband and slayed his HEART by telling him what she had done. We know that David killed Bathsheba's husband. We know that the son born to Bathsheba and David, died. We know in BT that although David was a man after God's heart, that he died asking his son to kill his enemies and to make it bloody. Hardly the thing that would please God who teaches us to LOVE our enemies and pray for them!
Looking at this again, I see I was deceived. Here is what I have found. We know that the OT is written for our admonition. I was wrong to think Abigale did the right thing. Why. Because we are told by God in 1 John 2 : 16 For ALL that is in the world - the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, the pride of life, is not of The Father but is of the world.
We know that Ray has identified this Scripture with Eve who was carnal and took the forbidden fruit precisely because she lusted in her flesh eyes and she esteemed having Godly knowledge above the value of being obedient and faithful to God Himself. Hence her consequences!
What I did not know was that three women in the OT written for my admonition, were not so innocent either as at first assumed. Abigale complained to David about her husband. She slandered his name! Look at this and cringe at the words she spoke to David after kneeling at his feet! : 1 Samuel 28 : 25 Let not my lord, I pray you, regard this FOOLISH AND WICKED FELLOW NABAL, (she is speaking about HER HUSBAND!) for as his name is, so is he - Nabal, is his name, and folly is with him. But I YOUR HANDMAID....etc etc...
Guess what happened to Nabal after Abigale told him what she had done. HIS HEART DIED WITHIN HIM! vs 37 and he became as a stone. Then ten days later God smote Nabal that he died. Poor chap and not because God smote him but because through Nabal's WIFE his HEART DIED WITHIN HIM. I wonder how many men can relate to Nobal? I wonder how many women can even SEE that it is WRONG to go and kneel before another man and slander your husband in order to save your own skin, win approval or get a carnal promotion to a more appealing life style! Abigale became David's wife AND SHE ran to the opportunity without any mention of grief for her deceased husband! Shame on her!
What about Bath-Sheba. She falls pregnant. Deceives her husband who is later murdered by her lover and is that all right? Why would that be all right? Oh because her lover was higher up in rank and status. Like pride of life higher up as a King, King David no less! NO. That is the deception. Of course it was not alright. How do I know? because God sent Nathan His servant to point out David's error to him and the Lord struck the child that Uriah's widow bore to David.
What about Ruth? She found favor with Boaz. She submitted to him and was blessed. She was a widow not because Boaz killed her husband or because she betrayed her husbands folly to another man. Ruth was kind and devoted and she obeyed and honoured her Mother in law and served her and had a spirit of submission. It is Ruth who's name we see in the first chapter of Mathew who describes the lineage of Jesus Christ! NOT Bath-Sheba or Abigale!
I know that the Bride of Christ will have no evil thoughts about her husband on earth or in Heaven and All Heaven and Earth shall be to His Glory with a trusting compliantly gentle and loving wife next to Him.
Peace be to you
Arcturus :)
Sorry. That might have been too long winded for some :D
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Hi Brett, Arc & Heidi,
Acturus quoted 1Cor 15:45 and I think more verses from that Chapter address both of your questions (Brett, Heidi).
1 Corinthians 15
42So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
43It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
44It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
45And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
46Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
47The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven.
48As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
49And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
Does the lump of clay represent mankind or each individual?
Hi Heidi,
The short answer is both, every person (in God's time and choosing) will experience this transformation from the natural to the spiritual, corruption to incorruption, mortal to immortal, imperfection to perfection.
Hi Joe,
Are you saying like First Adam is in man's flesh and Second Adam is still same man's flesh before he die? But not spirutal body as resurrection (second Adam)?
Am I right understand you or am I off?
Brett
Hi Brett,
Not quite, we are all Adam the earthly vessel being transformed into a spiritual creature, although we are spiritually conceived in this flesh we will not be true spiritual creatures until the resurrection.
2Co 1:22 Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnestG728 (down payment) of the Spirit in our hearts.
2Co 5:5 Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.
Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that Holy Spirit of promise,
Eph 1:14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
G728
ἀῤῥαβών
arrhabōn
ar-hrab-ohn'
Of Hebrew origin [H6162]; a pledge, that is, part of the purchase money or property given in advance as security for the rest: - earnest.
His Peace and Wisdom to you,
Joe
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Sorry. That might have been too long winded for some :D
Absolutely not!
Beautiful post Arcturus, thank you Sister,
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Hi! brother Joe.
"Then shall two men be in the field; one is taken, and one is left: two women shall be grinding at the mill; one is taken, and one is left." (Matt.24:40,41). This Scripture has been a headache for me for sometime, and I didn't have a clue till I read the discussion between you and Kat.
Using the flood in the OT as an example for us today it makes very good sense even to the likes of me. In each reference to, two, it is noticeable that they are of the same sex; one pair male and the other pair female. So the two are actually one person representing the carnal and spiritual in each. In Christ the carnal is left and bites the dust from whence it came whereas the spiritual is taken and rises to be with Christ.
Have I got this right? If so, thank you brother it solves a big ongoing problem for me.
God bless you.
Love in Christ Jesus.
Roy
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Hi Roy,
Here are a few verses to ponder on in regard to your question;
Joh 3:30 He must increase, but I must decrease.
Joh 3:31 He that cometh from above is above all: he that is of the earth is earthly, and speaketh of the earth: he that cometh from heaven is above all.
1Co 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
Gal 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
Eph 4:22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
Eph 4:23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
Eph 4:24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
Col 3:8 But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth.
Col 3:9 Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;
Col 3:10 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:
Jam 1:8 A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.
His Peace and Wisdom to you,
Joe
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Hi Roy,
"Then shall two men be in the field; one is taken, and one is left: two women shall be grinding at the mill; one is taken, and one is left." (Matt.24:40,41). This Scripture has been a headache for me for sometime, and I didn't have a clue till I read the discussion between you and Kat.
Ray went over this Scripture and it's meaning in a Bible study about foundational truths. Here are some excerpts from that study that should help you with this :)
The Scripture that Joe gave will fit right in with this.
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,6452.0.html -----------
Mark 4:11 …Unto YOU it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:
Well wait a minute we have just learned something all over there again. What are the parables about? The called and the chosen, the many and the few. Now what did He say there? He just told us that, did you get it or did you just read over it and you missed it? Read it again. How many times have you read that and you missed it. YOU are the few chosen, YOU will understand these things. "Without" I teach in parables, the many hear Me, but THEY don’t get it.
Mark 4:12 That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand;
So there is your two groups. This is not talking about the same person being split down the middle or something. This is talking about the called and the chosen.
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Haven’t you read the one about the dragnet? You bring in the net, right and those that are without, are those thrown out. The good fish and see we have the good ground. The word going to the good ground and what is the good ground? The good people, you have the good fish, those that you take in the basket and keep.
Now I’m not going to go through all the parables today, I have another point in mind. But the principle fits here and that’s why I want to start off with the parables. There are about 40 parables in the New Testament. It starts off with the lamp under the bushel/basket, then you have the wise man, the two men in the bed.
It doesn’t mean there are just these two, it’s just two categories.
One builds his house upon the rock and the other one builds his house on the sand. This is not the same man, presented by the two men. Now it’s true that we can go from one to the other, but most of the parables present them at the same time. You can’t do it at the same time, there is a transition where you repent and you are converted and you become the new person and you leave the other one behind. The other one does not follow with equal stature from then on. If it does you are not producing fruit and you are not going anywhere.
So there are two different groups throughout the parables. You have the new wine and the old wine skins. The sower, that we just went through with the sower. You have the tares and the wheat. The tares and the wheat are growing together, but they are not the same. Because those that are the tares will be thrown into fire. You can not be gathered into the barn and thrown into the fire at the same time. People will not be in the kingdom of God and in the fire at the same time. There comes a part where you separate these two and that happens at resurrection. Those that enter the kingdom and those that are without and are going to be judged.
Sometimes a parable will emphasize the Elect, sometimes it puts emphasis on the many. But the opposite is always in view. They talk about the bad, but that doesn’t negate the fact that this is the opposite of those that are good.
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The parables are all talking about the same thing. If you understand that, you should understand that the two in the field and the two women grinding at the mill can not be one and the same person. I mean we are getting into a kind of trinity here.
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mercy, peace and love
Kat
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Thanks for that excerpt Kat! :)
I just love what Ray observes quote : ....there is a transition where you repent and you are converted and you become the new person and you leave the other one behind.
To me this speaks VOLUMES and has SO much encouragement. It kind of identifies how we come out of our carnality via repentance which is not by our might or our power but by His Spirit!
Thanks to you Joe :)
Peace to you
Arc.
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Hi Joe,
Thanks for the reply. Man, I am learning sooooo much from this site. I feel humbled.
Love
Heidi