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=> Off Topic Discussions => Topic started by: aqrinc on May 20, 2009, 03:34:42 AM
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I put this here because there are going to be lots of conversation, from those who want to toss GOD out of The Creation. Note that the only report so far is from those who need to prove Darwinism. Sure there will be lots of debate but lets get the whole story before trying to answer.
I have already seen several giant leaps of illogic, and will be doing more research to put this one to bed.
That is my take anyway, times are really getting interesting, which is why we need to keep our eyes on The Prize.
george. :)
MNBC.com
‘Missing link’ likely to stir debate
Scientists announce 47 million-year-old find amid media hoopla
LiveScience
updated 5:06 p.m. PT, Tues., May 19, 2009
A discovery of a 47 million-year-old fossil primate that is said to be a human ancestor was announced and unveiled Tuesday at a press conference in New York City.
Known as "Ida," the nearly complete transitional fossil is 20 times older than most fossils that provide evidence for human evolution.
It shows characteristics from the very primitive non-human evolutionary line (prosimians, such as lemurs), but is more related to the human evolutionary line (anthropoids, such as monkeys, apes and humans), said Norwegian paleontologist Jørn Hurum of the University of Oslo Natural History Museum. However, she is not really an anthropoid either, he said.
The fossil, called Darwinius masillae and said to be a female, provides the most complete understanding of the paleobiology of any primate so far discovered from the Eocene Epoch, Hurum said. An analysis of the fossil mammal is detailed Tuesday in the journal PLoS ONE.
"This is the first link to all humans ... truly a fossil that links world heritage," Hurum said.
Here is some context for the age of the new primate fossil: Anatomically modern humans (Homo sapiens) first emerged about 200,000 years ago, but early humans such as Australopithecus afarensis and Australopithecus anamensis reach back 3 million to 4 million years ago or even earlier. Humans are thought to have split off from a group that includes chimpanzees and gorillas about 6 million years ago. And a group that includes all the great apes (including us) and Old World monkeys (called simians or anthropoids) diverged from New World monkeys in the Eocene, just after the time of Ida. So our primate roots reach back to this time.
History of discovery
For the past two years, an international team of scientists led by Hurum has conducted a detailed forensic analysis of the fossil.
The fossil was apparently discovered in 1983 by private collectors who split and eventually sold two parts of the skeleton on separate plates: The lesser part was restored and, in the process, partly fabricated to make it look more complete.
This part was purchased for a private museum in Wyoming, and then described by Jens L. Franzen, part of Hurum's team, who recognized the fabrication. The more complete part has just come to light, and it now belongs to the Natural History Museum of the University of Oslo.
Ida was preserved in Germany’s Messel Pit, a mile-wide crater containing oil-rich shale that is a significant site for fossils of the Eocene Epoch. Opposable big toes and nail-bearing tips on the fingers and toes confirm that the fossil is a primate, and a foot bone called the talus bone links Ida directly to humans, Hurum said.
The fossil also preserved the primate's gut contents, including fruits, seeds and leaves. X-rays reveal both baby and adult teeth, plus the lack of a "toothcomb" or a "grooming claw," which is an attribute of lemurs (which are also primates, like us, but are considered more primitive and part of a family different from great apes and us).
The scientists estimate that Ida was about 9 months old at death, and measured about 3 feet in length. Her forward-facing eyes are like ours — which would have enabled her fields of vision to overlap, allowing 3-D vision and an ability to judge distance. She was probably nocturnal, Hurum and his colleagues say.
Death scenario
Ida lived at a time when mammals were evolving quickly on a planet that was basically a vast jungle. Early horses, bats, whales and many other creatures, including the first primates, thrived at this time when the climate was subtropical. The Himalayas were being formed.
X-rays reveal that a broken wrist may have contributed to Ida’s death — her left wrist was healing from a bad fracture, Hurum said.
She could have been overcome by carbon dioxide gas while drinking from the Messel lake: the still waters of the lake were often covered by a low-lying blanket of the gas as a result of the volcanic forces that formed the lake and which were still active.
Hampered by her broken wrist, Ida possibly slipped into unconsciousness, was washed into the lake and sunk to the bottom, where the unique conditions preserved her for 47 million years, Hurum said.
A replica of Ida will go on display later this week at the American Museum of Natural History's new "Extreme Mammals" exhibition. A book and a TV documentary, both titled "The Link," have been timed for release to coincide with the publication of the research.
Dozens of reporters swarmed to the museum for Tuesday's announcement at the museum, where even New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg was on hand to extol the discovery. The fossilized creature lay on its side, suspended in a block of amber-colored material sitting in a brightly lit specimen case.
Before Tuesday's event, the fossil was shrouded in secrecy, and its unveiling unfolded more like a Hollywood production than a scientific discovery. When asked if the publicity was overdone, Hurum said he didn't think so.
"That's part of getting science out to the public to get attention," he said. "I don't think that's so wrong."
This report was supplemented by msnbc.com. LiveScience provides further coverage of the celebrity treatment surrounding the fossil.
More on "missing link" | primate evolution
© 2009 LiveScience.com. All rights reserved.
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george,
i just read that article on cnn.com earlier this evening. the headline on it was "is the fossil a link to monkeys and humans?" they were trying really hard to link it back to us. you are right in saying that many people are trying to toss God out of Creation. i am sure that i/we are not linked to this fossil in any way, shape, or form. it is but another misguided headline by those whom are blinded to the Light of the Truths. oh for that day, when all will be revealed by His Son.
claudia
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Their "missing link" is Jesus Christ...Who is Spiritually discerned. Until He is discerned He shall remain to those who have ears and hear not, who have eyes and see not, as "missing". :D
Arc
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They're wrong!! I dated the missing link not too long ago.
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Musicman, I thought you dated the behemoth or was THAT the missing link? Oh my, you need to look somewhere else for dates, dude!! :D
Kathy ;)
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Why can't poor Ida just be an example of some extinct species?
Because it's sexier to think of her as an ancestor, just as it is more 'holy' to think of her as having been killed in Noah's global Flood a few thousand years ago.
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nice video link mark. and to think i used to watch star trek and believe that the scenes were pretty scary. ::) that fight scene is as weak as the news event about ida being the missing link. arc is correct in her statement that the True missing link is Jesus Christ. but of course that is not as sensational as the ida story to those whom are looking to the physical for answers.
claudia
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Well I'll be a monkey's uncle!
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Soon to be a favorite cut down name for children across the country.
"Ida"
Or
Yo mama looks like Ida.
Break up with a girl? Just say, "get lost, Ida".
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my next door neighbors' dog is named ida. :D :D :D
claudia
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This was in my mail this morning. It's amazing that there are actually people that believe we evolved.
God's accuracy may be observed in the hatching of eggs.
For example:
-the eggs of the potato bug hatch in 7 days;
-those of the canary in 14 days;
-those of the barnyard hen in 21 days;
-The eggs of ducks and geese hatch in 28 days;
-Those of the mallard in 35 days;
-The eggs of the parrot and the ostrich hatch in 42 days.
(Notice, they are all divisible by seven, the number of days in a week!)
The lives of each of you may be ordered by the Lord in a beautiful way for His glory, if you will only entrust Him with your life. If you try to regulate your own life, it will only be a mess and a failure. Only the One Who made the brain and the heart can successfully guide them to a profitable end.
God's wisdom is seen in the making of an elephant. The four legs of this great beast all bend forward in the same direction. No other quadruped is so made. God planned that this animal would have a huge body, too large to live on two legs. For this reason He gave it four fulcrums so that it can rise from the ground easily.
The horse rises from the ground on its two front legs first. A cow rises from the ground with its two hind legs first. How wise the Lord is in all His works of creation!
God's wisdom is revealed in His arrangement of sections and segments, as well as in the number of grains.
-Each watermelon has an even number of strips on the rind.
-Each orange has an even number of segments.
-Each ear of corn has an even number of rows.
-Each stalk of wheat has an even number of grains.
-Every bunch of bananas has on its lowest row an even number of bananas, and each row decreases by one, so that one row has an even number and the next row an odd number.
-The waves of the sea roll in on shore twenty-six to the minute in all kinds of weather.
-All grains are found in even numbers on the stalks, and the Lord specified thirty fold, sixty fold, and a hundredfold - all even numbers.
God has caused the flowers to blossom at certain specified times during the day, so that Linnaeus, the great botanist, once said that if he had a conservatory containing the right kind of soil, moisture and temperature, he could tell the time of day or night by the flowers that were open and those that were closed!
Thus the Lord in His wonderful grace can arrange the life that is entrusted to His care in such a way that it will carry out His purposes and plans, and will be fragrant with His presence. Only the God-planned safe life is successful. Only the life given over to the care of the Lord is fulfilled.
I HOPE YOU FIND THIS AS FASCINATING AS I DID…WOW
Luv & hugs,meee
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They're wrong!! I dated the missing link not too long ago.
The next time you take my sister out you really don't need to keep her over 46 million years you know she needs her beauty sleep
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Kenny,
Careful your Sister doesn't take those new choppers and hide them, then what will you say to her ???. Sorry Sis can i have my ;D back please.
george. :-X
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meee,
thank you for your post of the email you received. yes indeed, our Father God is the most magnificent Creator Designer! awesome in His preciseness.
claudia
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Ditto Claudia
If you try to regulate your own life, it will only be a mess and a failure
Self regulation is based on belief in the myth and error of free will which is the widely taught false assumption of religion and the world.
Arc
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My comments in blue.
A sample from news.sky.com about the discussion going on re: ida, and other missing links found on google. I have posted a couple of answers to the debate, below is a sample of one statement and my answer.
http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/World-News/Missing-Link-Scientists-In-New-York-Unveil-Fossil-Of-Lemur-Monkey-Hailed-As-Mans-Earliest-Ancestor/Article/200905315284582?lpos=World_News_Carousel_Region_0&lid=ARTICLE_15284582_Missing_Link%3A_Scientists_In_New_York_Unveil_Fossil_Of_Lemur_Monkey_Hailed_As_Mans_Earliest_Ancestor
The difference between the theory of evolution is that it is based on some sort of FACT. The bible is written by a primitive society to explain the things they did not understand and has since been changed by human hands anyway, most notably by a King who wished to make his divorces legal. I'm all for faith, but use your brains. Don't be blind, submissive sheep who never question anything because it's easier to just buy into a book written over a thousand years ago by a less informed society.
Posted By: Dustin
The above is obviously written by someone who has little knowledge of Scripture, and even less understanding of how our world and the universe operate as one entity. My Scripture can encompass your evolution, your evolution does not even understand Scripture.
Now below is a very well thought out answer.
All I have to say about this is "REMEMBER PILTDOWN MAN, AND LUCY, AND THE BIRD FOSSIL FROM THE ANDES." Each of these discoveries were touted by evolution scientists as the missing link to human and mammalian evolution. Each ended up being discredited and the community of evolutionists had egg on its collective face. With piltdown man, which was a hoax, the scientests jumped on the band wagon and eagerly proclaimed the discovery. With each of the discoveries mentioned it took time and close study for scientists with cooler heads to debunk them. I feel comfortable in saying that this will be the case again.
Remember the coding in animal and human DNA is very complex and extensive. This kind of data does not come into existance by chance, it has to be programmed. That being the case, where does the programming come from? From our supposed animla ancestors? I hardly think so.
Posted By :Bill Chiarulli
george. :)
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More from newssky.com Ok Off to work i go now, will be peeking in to see if any more good stuff is available.
ok here's the deal for all of you doubters out there:
I'm a doubter too, i think we all are in our nature, i DO NOT have all the answers, but i think that religous people dont want you guys to destroy their hopes that there's no God since this world is screwed up completely and that's a fact we can ALL agree on. And that's why i came with the greatest solution as somebody who is searching for God out of hope that we ALL have deep inside of us for a greater meanning: EVOLUTION AND CREATION DOES NOT CLASH!
Now start arguing about things and lets see what comes out of it! (;
I dont care if i came from a freaking monkey as long as God made it happened! I think when it was said that God created us in his image he meant something deeper on a spiritual level than our appearance and i dont know why monkeys are so bad, they ARE God's creation too, wonderful and inteligent!
Posted By: Iris
Here is a better reading of the creation of humanity Story. This shows it is a continuing process not a finished product. Creating and Creates (a continuing process) as opposed to Created (finished).
Gen 1:27 (CLV)
And creating is the Elohim humanity in His image. In the image of the Elohim He creates it. Male and female He creates them.
george. :)