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=> General Discussions => Topic started by: gallenwalsh on January 07, 2011, 07:14:00 AM
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Does anyone have any insight as to why we are made male and female if indeed as I understand things we will be neither male nor female in the spiritual realm, all relationships as we now know them will be dissolved and all will belong to GOD.As I now understand things there is both motherhood and fatherhood in our GOD. Does anyone think weather we are male or female one day we shall all be both ? ( that is to know both motherhood and fatherhood).We all contend with each other whether male or female in this life it seems just to me that any pride of the flesh would be dissolved including gender as well as any ethnic pride or personal achievements and fleshly sentimentalities.Can't wait for that day.
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'Babies' spring to mind.
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'Babies' spring to mind.
;D
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Hi gallenwalsh,
Does anyone have any insight as to why we are made male and female if indeed as I understand things we will be neither male nor female in the spiritual realm, all relationships as we now know them will be dissolved and all will belong to GOD.
Well what I consider this life is, for both male and female, is for an expenence in the flesh. Yes both genders have their woes, women go through the dangers of child birth, but men go to war... But I really believe it's not the different physical things that we are involved in that are so much as important ultimately as the lessons learned. Which will eventually come down for all of us to developing the fruit of the spirit.
Gal 5:22-23 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law.
These fruits are what this life is all about and have to be learned by all human beings no matter male or female, rich or poor, either in this life or the next. It just seems to me that being male or female is part of this physical creation and is for this experience, a means to an end and is not necessary, nor will be present when we are changed to spirit.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
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Ha HA John
You have a sense of humor, your friends must tell you that. But you ask a serious question. If we are yet carnal, and we all must judge ourselves, because it is important...then our beast is alive and kickin...no matter what we know in our heads
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Hi Everyone,
I'm baaaack...
Does anyone have any insight as to why we are made male and female if indeed as I understand things we will be neither male nor female in the spiritual realm, all relationships as we now know them will be dissolved and all will belong to GOD.As I now understand things there is both motherhood and fatherhood in our GOD. Does anyone think weather we are male or female one day we shall all be both ? ( that is to know both motherhood and fatherhood).We all contend with each other whether male or female in this life it seems just to me that any pride of the flesh would be dissolved including gender as well as any ethnic pride or personal achievements and fleshly sentimentalities.Can't wait for that day.
Here are a few verses that sprung to mind when reading gallenwalsh's question;
1Co 15:46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
Isa 62:5 For as a young man marrieth a virgin, so shall thy sons marry thee: and as the bridegroom rejoiceth over the bride, so shall thy God rejoice over thee.
Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
Rev 21:9 And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife.
Rev 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.
Keeping in mind;
Ecc 1:9 The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.
Not saying this is the complete answer by any stretch, only that this is what came to (my) mind...
Peace friends... old & new,
Joe
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Well hello Joe, so glad to see you posting again :)
I think I see what you are saying, there is first a physical shadow of the spiritual. So now we have the man and woman and marriage as a shadow of Christ and the bride and their marriage at the first resurrection. That is a very prominent and beautiful representation, as the Scriptures you provided show. That had slipped my mind, thanks for bringing that into the discussion.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
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it seems just to me that any pride of the flesh would be dissolved including gender as well as any ethnic pride or personal achievements and fleshly sentimentalities.Can't wait for that day.
I agree.
''fleshly sentimentalities'' haha, I liked how you put it down. I have been there before.
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Hey Joe!!
Glad to see you posting again!! ;D
Antaiwan
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Well hello Joe, so glad to see you posting again :)
I think I see what you are saying, there is first a physical shadow of the spiritual. So now we have the man and woman and marriage as a shadow of Christ and the bride and their marriage at the first resurrection. That is a very prominent and beautiful representation, as the Scriptures you provided show. That had slipped my mind, thanks for bringing that into the discussion.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
Thank you Kat!
We have an incredible promise from our Creator to look forward to...
Hey Joe!!
Glad to see you posting again!! ;D
Antaiwan
A sincere thank you Antaiwan!
Peace,
Joe
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Hey Joe
It's good to see you posting again.I look forward to your future contributions
Dave
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"Babies comes to mind." that's good. :)
The way I see the male female relationship, is that when God created man and took the woman from Adam. God said that they were to be one flesh.
God the Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who came from the Father, as Jesus proclaimed over and over ARE ONE.
We spend our lives with the Gold of being one with God, and will reach that Gold ultimately in the Resurrection.
Jesus told the sadducees (sad you see) :( Do ye not therefore err, because ye know not the scriptures, neither the power of God?
For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels which are as in heaven. Mark 12:24-25
Joel
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Does anyone have any insight as to why we are made male and female if indeed as I understand things we will be neither male nor female in the spiritual realm, all relationships as we now know them will be dissolved and all will belong to GOD.As I now understand things there is both motherhood and fatherhood in our GOD. Does anyone think weather we are male or female one day we shall all be both ? ( that is to know both motherhood and fatherhood).We all contend with each other whether male or female in this life it seems just to me that any pride of the flesh would be dissolved including gender as well as any ethnic pride or personal achievements and fleshly sentimentalities.Can't wait for that day.
Hi Gallenwalsh,
I've been following this Thread from it's inception and appreciating the responses. I decided to contribute some information from the 2006 Mobile Conference; The Fathers Will. Originally, I was going to start a Thread discussing this Material, but thought the information found below from this Conference, although not directly related to your initial Post, might tie into this Discussion. Excerpt's from Ray's material will be in blue color.
We find from this material that God is both Male and Female, spiritually speaking, having all the traits and qualities that are found in Males and Females(Adam & Eve). Read Below !
Old Testament: “And creating is God humanity IN HIS IMAGE. In the image of the God He creates it. Male and female He creates them.” (Gen. 1:27)
New Testament: “ For whom He [the Father] did foreknow, He also did predestinate to be [complete is yet future] COFORMED TO THE IMAGE OF HIS SON, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren” (Rom. 8:29).
Look there are two things here. God creates man in His own image, ok. “In the image of God creates He him, male and female creates He them.” So man is created in the image of God, right. But did you catch it? The female is created in the image of God. Did you miss that? The female is created in the image of God, therefore God is female. But we call Him ‘Him,’ so He’s male too. HE’S BOTH.
It doesn’t say God is evil, He has a knowledge of good and evil. But He is good.
But when it comes to male and female, they are both equally in the image of God, or being made in the image of God, or in the image of God He’s making ‘them.’
It’s both ways. They’re being made into His image and He is making them in His image. You see that? You see how it’s repeated twice there.
“Let Us make man in Our image, after Our likeness.” So God created man in His image, “in the image of God.” The verse says “in the image of God created He them, Male and female,” see God created man in His image, but then in the image of God, “He created them male and female.” Female is in the image of God, God is female. God is male and female. Where did God ever get the idea for a female? Is this something that doesn’t exist in His being? Is this something foreign to God? Femininity is in God. That’s why He took that and made a representation of that, in the form of a woman. That’s God! Just as much as the man is God.
I think some of you women have felt slighted over the years, that God is not a woman. Well some religious groups refer to God as she, you know. God in His image He created a woman, yet the only way He could do that, is that woman was in God. And then He created out of that (from Himself), the woman.
I heard someone say El-Shaddai, El - being God, Shaddai - breath. El- Shaddai the God with breath or the breath of God.
So when we talk about the man and the woman now, we’re talking about in the image of God Himself, in both of them. Man is in God’s image, so the woman is the feminine side of God, ok.
Now, I present the Physical aspect of the Male/Female relationship presented in Adam & Eve's creation. Adam was alone, naming the Animals. He was put in a deep sleep by God. Most translations render the Hebrew word "Tsela" as Rib, but it was discovered that this probably refers to "Chamber" which relates to Chamber Maid, a private chamber. The bedroom is the most private room. Adam contained within Himself, both Male & Female. God removed the Femininity from Adam and created a Female, Eve. Prior to God creating Eve, Adam had within Himself both the Male and Female Anatomy. I discovered in some of my personal studies that Adolph Knoch and Jeff Priddy share this understanding regarding the Hebrew word "Tsela" and Adam containing both Male & Female within Himself, prior to God creating Eve.
So we read over here that the female came out from God. That’s where it originated, God is female just as much as He is male and now He creates the man, and the man has no female counterpart. The animals do, he doesn’t. But he longed for it and God admits he shouldn’t be alone like this. I’ve got to make him a mate, but not today. I’m saying it was years later.
So He takes something out of Adam (notice He didn’t make the woman out of the dust of the ground), He took something out of Adam to make the female. We’re told it was a rib. I think we’re told wrong.
So God finally makes Adam a woman and He brings her to him and he says, “This is bone of my bone and flesh of my flesh…” How did he know that? How could he look at the woman and say hmm, let me see here... there is one missing, Lord there is one missing did you take my rib and make that woman for me? Do you think that’s what happened? He looked at her and instantly knew.
But that’s not what he said, he didn’t say, “This is bone of my bone,” Here is what he said, I’ll give you the translation from James Moffet. He looked at her and said, “this AT LAST is bone of my bone!” Why did he say at last? Did he say, 'I’ve been dying to have a mate for over an hour?' That is nonsense. Adam went for years without a mate, he was tilling the garden, he was taking care of the garden and he was naming all the animals, and who knows what else he was doing. But now he said “AT LAST!” where it says, “this is now,” that word ‘now’ means, at last finally someone for me.
Personal Message (Online)
Re: Mobile 2006
« Reply #5 on: March 03, 2007, 11:45:51 AM »
Adam-Eve/page 2
And what I am saying, in my heart and mind I don’t believe that Adam tilled the garden and took care of the garden, and how big was it? 1000 acres? I don’t know how big it was, he took care of all that and then he named all the animals and everything in a few hours before sunset. I just don’t believe that. I believe it took certainly months, if not years.
And if God was just going to create Adam and say ok, now one of your jobs in the future is going to be to keep the garden, no. Now He was saying it to him then, you might say ok some of it you and your wife are going to do together later, no then.
He gave it to him now, and by the way, when you and your wife are taking care of the garden I want you to name the animals. He had to name them then and after he named all 6000 species, guess what? There was no one for Adam, there was no one for him. Can’t you see the longing here, over a long period of time? I think it was at least years. He didn’t have a mate, he looked for one and even God admitted that it was not good for man to continue forever without a mate. I’ll make him one, but not today. Now, then He says but there was none found for him.
Gen 2:21 So the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon the man, and while he slept took one of his ribs and closed up its place with flesh.
v. 22 And the rib that the LORD God had taken from the man he made into a woman and brought her to the man.
So we’re told God took a "rib" and closed it back up and made a woman out of the rib. Now He then said, wake up Adam I’ve got something for you. He wakes up Adam and He brings him the woman, Eve.
Gen 2:23 Then the man said, "This at last is bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh; she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man."
Is that what he said? Would you like to know what the Hebrew says?
You know I knew this for I don’t know how long, 10-15 years ago I learned this.
And so when I was doing this study I thought, well I’ll get the exact wording from the Concordant and see how they say it, because the Concordant is the only one that got this right. And I looked in my Concordant and it wasn’t in there. The Concordant didn’t even get it right. The Concordant of the Old Testament doesn’t have it right.
But I've got five other translations that got it right. Why you never read them is because you just passed over them and didn’t see it.
Adam didn’t say, "This at last is bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh; she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man." That is not what he said. He was longing for a mate, God acknowledged it was not good for the man to be alone, and said I’ll make him a mate. Now we read over here where did the woman come from? The woman is in the image of God. God didn’t make man and then make woman out of the side or image of man. No, it plainly says;
Gen 1:27 “So God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.”
Female is created in the image of God. There is female in God. God is female just as much as God is male. Where did He get the idea of femininity? It’s in Him, it’s a part of Him.
Adam is longing for this part of him that is missing. Maybe he didn’t fully understand what testosterone was, but he was feeling the effects of it and not only that, he had nobody to talk to. He talked to God, but He was on a little higher level there, you know. Adam might say, 'what did you do today God?' Well I don’t know, what did you do Adam? Well, pulled some weeds and I noticed all those animals I named, they all have a partner. I was wondering why it is I don’t have a partner God, why is that?
So we read over here that the female came out from God. That’s where it originated, God is female just as much as He is male and now He creates the man, and the man has no female counterpart. The animals do, he doesn’t. But he longed for it and God admits he shouldn’t be alone like this. I’ve got to make him a mate, but not today. I’m saying it was years later.
So He takes something out of Adam (notice He didn’t make the woman out of the dust of the ground), He took something out of Adam to make the female. We’re told it was a rib. I think we’re told wrong.
So God finally makes Adam a woman and He brings her to him and he says, “This is bone of my bone and flesh of my flesh…” How did he know that? How could he look at the woman and say hmm, let me see here... there is one missing, Lord there is one missing did you take my rib and make that woman for me? Do you think that’s what happened? He looked at her and instantly knew.
But that’s not what he said, he didn’t say, “This is bone of my bone,” Here is what he said, I’ll give you the translation from James Moffet. He looked at her and said, “this AT LAST is bone of my bone!” Why did he say at last? Did he say, 'I’ve been dying to have a mate for over an hour?' That is nonsense. Adam went for years without a mate, he was tilling the garden, he was taking care of the garden and he was naming all the animals, and who knows what else he was doing. But now he said “AT LAST!” where it says, “this is now,” that word ‘now’ means, at last finally someone for me.
The New World Translation say, “This is at last bone of my bone.”
The New American Version says, “This one at last is bone of my bone.”
The New Revised Standard Version says, “This at last is bone of my bone.”
The Living Bible says and I like this one, “This is it!”
She is part of my own bones and flesh, "this is it," Adam exclaimed. So first of all he was excited. I mean what a beauty, I mean come on all for me. But it was at least... you know he waited a long time, finally after all these years, finally someone for me.
How did he know it was bone of his bone? How could he look at Eve and say, you came out of me? What did he see? God didn’t say, 'Adam I know your going to wonder where this woman came from, I put you to sleep and I took a rib, I made her.' No, he could tell, he looked and saw and he said that’s me, you come from me. How did he know that? He looked, he had something before he went to sleep, he had something and when he woke up and God brought him to the woman, he didn’t have it anymore. She had it! What do you suppose that was? He (just like God) was male and female. God is male and female, Adam was male and female. God took the female part and made a woman out of it. Adam saw that what he had was now gone, it’s over there. She came from me, that’s bone of my bone and flesh of my flesh, she came out of me.
Now can you see any spiritual connection in all this? How God is longing for a compliment, a counterpart, someone to compliment someone. It says a counterpart in the Greek, a compliment, or a help meet. A counter part for Adam that was not found, now he has a compliment, a counterpart to him, to make him complete.
That’s what God is longing for. Where is it going to come from? Out of Him. He has one Son, Jesus Christ, we are sons in the making. So where did Christ come from?
In the Hebrew the word is no. 6763 - tsela, and it can be translated ‘rib,’ and door, side and chamber. In Ezekiel 10 times this same word translated rib is translated chamber. A chamber-maid is usually some one who tends to the house, but specially the bedroom. If you look up chamber, the definition is a private room. The bedroom is your most private room. Our sexual anatomy is called our private parts. Can you put it together? This is not a rib. He took the femininity from him and made a woman. First He put it in the man, and then He took it from the man and made a woman out of it.
Adam & Eve represent the Physical aspect of the Male/Female relationship, creating them in His(God's) Image. Now, we will see how Ray presents the Spiritual aspect of this. First the Physical, then the Spiritual. Read Below !
When a man and a woman are united in sexual intercourse their bodies are inside of each other. I mean that’s a pretty good connection, that’s not just a hand shake. Your bodies are literally inside of each other (I hope I’m not too gross, but there are no children). They are one flesh, in that relationship, you see. And that is why you’re not supposed to fornicate with prostitutes. Because when you’re joined to a prostitute you’re one flesh too, and that’s an abomination. You cling to your wife, not your wife and your girl friend and the local whore. Your wife, because your one flesh, you see.
This is a great mystery it says. But I’m speaking concerning Christ and His church. The relationship of Christ with the church, it's typified by the relationship of a loving husband and a loving wife in sexual intercourse. When they are so emotionally intertwined with one another, that they are literally one flesh. This is the relationship we’re going to have with God. Christ refers to the church as the Bride of Christ.
The bride is going to be all decorated, by that we mean, made spotless and sure and clean, character wise. A fitting Bride for the creator of the universe.
Paul taught the church in Ephesians, this mystery of a man and a woman coming together. You know after a man longs for a woman for so long, and I’m saying years.
If I’m a heretic, then I’m a heretic, but that’s what I believe.
But for years and finally he, “at last” there you are. There you are, the one I’ve been dreaming of. This was a big deal.
They don’t make a big deal out of it in the King James. Because Adam says, “This is flesh of my flesh.” NO, exclamation point, “at last!” finally! This is it! Yes! My woman!
Emphatically the emotion is expressed in that word ‘now.’
Seven other translations got it right.
Doesn’t that convey something of joy in the heart of God.
When Paul comes along and says this very thing we’re talking about, he’s talking about Christ and the church.
You see it’s a great spiritual lesson, this union of a husband and a wife, what it should be. How a husband should love a wife and how a wife should love a husband. I mean really love each other dearly.
This is how Christ loves the church, and died for it.
Just as the husband and wife become one flesh, God wants to be that intimate with humanity, like one flesh.
John 10:30 “I and the Father are one!”
They’re not the same person, but ‘one,’ there’s a difference.
But one, same spirit, same mind, same attitude, same character, same power, same strength, same wisdom, same purpose, they are one.
And that’s what God wants us to be with Him, that close, one.
It’s a spiritual thing He’s making here. We think that it’s a physical thing, we have physical life, and die a physical death, and then it’s all over. No.
This creation represents a spiritual creation. It’s not finished yet, and when we die it’s not finished.
If it were, we could just pack up our books and go home. No purpose in me sitting up here trying to teach something, just go home and watch a football game.
Now He doesn’t want this just for the elect, though He calls out the elect first, but it’s for everyone.
Hope this Helps & adds another angle to this Male/Female relationship and that this is part of God's Plan. Samson.
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Hello all,I got this from,"The Destiny of women"
What is the balance? Jesus Christ is the balance.
I got an email from a girl name Pat. She said, ‘I submit personally that God is a woman hater and showed it from the beginning. The original sin was Adams’s fault, that’s how sin entered the world. But God already hating women, gave the woman the blame and the worse punishment and set her low. Yes this great experiment had failed, but God already proved Himself to be gender prejudice and yes knowing the beginning from the end, He set the woman up and let her take the fall. I hate God, I really do. I hate most Christians.’
I get interesting emails. This girl is bitter. Now, what about it though? Don’t some of you women feel a little bit, that you have been a little lower than men, even from God’s perspective? I mean when we read scriptures like this, and here we have these apparent contradictions, when we read scriptures like Acts 10.
Act 10:34 And Peter opened his mouth and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
Alright we’ll accept that, the word of God says it, we should believe it. Notice this in Corinthians.
2 Cor 6:18 And will be to you a Father, And ye shall be to Me sons and DAUGHTERS, says the Lord Almighty.
Did He leave women out? No, “sons and daughters.” Even though sons is used more often, daughters is in there, sons and daughters. God will be a Father to His sons and daughters. God is no respecter of persons.
Gal 3:28 There can be neither Jew nor Greek, there can be neither bond nor free, there can be NO MALE AND FEMALE; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
And
1 Peter 2:9 But you are a chosen generation (men and women), a royal priesthood (men and women), a holy nation (men and women), a peculiar people (men and women), that you (men and women) should show forth the praises of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvelous light;
That’s the calling, for men and women. It’s only one calling, to be in this royal priesthood, this kingly priesthood, the special generation, this holy nation. To be judges and lords, saviors and kings, you see. That is the calling.
There are no door keepers in the house of the Lord or the kingdom of the Lord. You know David said, I'd rather be a door keeper or whatever, but there are no door keepers. There is only this royal priesthood, this holy nation, these saviors and lords and kings and judges.
There are degrees of rewards, but the calling is one. He returns with His Saints, not with His Saints and lower strata of servants. No, they are all Saints, they are all one army, they are one people, they are all saviors. It doesn’t matter if you have a higher or lower reward in the kingdom, you’re all saviors, all kings, all lords, all priests, all judges. There is no low calling.
walt.
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When they are so EMOTIONALLY INTERTWINED with one another, that they are literally one flesh. This is the relationship we’re going to have with God. L Ray Smith (Caps for emphasis to topic)
EMOTIONALLY INTERTWINED. Not physically, financially or religiously, culturally or economically intertwined. EMOTIONALLY intertwined!
Who gets intertwined with a thorn bush? :D
Just as the husband and wife become one flesh, God wants to be that intimate with humanity, LIKE one flesh. L. Ray Smith (Caps for emphasis to topic)
Emotional intertwinement cannot be desired with a cactus. God shall remove the thorns and who does He say this is for?
.........it’s for everyone. L Ray Smith.
IT’S FOR EVERYONE! That’s very good news! It is GREAT NEWS!
Samson, that was a magnificent, Samson post! Thank you brother!
Dear brother walt
THANK YOU for the light of Christ you shine into our sisters and the daughters of the Kingdom of our Sovereign God!
Blessings
Arc
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Hey Joe
It's good to see you posting again.I look forward to your future contributions
Dave
Hi Dave,
Thanks for the very kind words!
Peace,
Joe
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Does anyone have any insight as to why we are made male and female if indeed as I understand things we will be neither male nor female in the spiritual realm, all relationships as we now know them will be dissolved and all will belong to GOD.As I now understand things there is both motherhood and fatherhood in our GOD. Does anyone think weather we are male or female one day we shall all be both ? ( that is to know both motherhood and fatherhood).We all contend with each other whether male or female in this life it seems just to me that any pride of the flesh would be dissolved including gender as well as any ethnic pride or personal achievements and fleshly sentimentalities.Can't wait for that day.
There is no male and female in the spiritual.
God just wants us to picture having a "family"
Christ answered in the new testament (i dont remember the chapter and verse)
Someone asked Christ, "Where are your brothers and sisters?"
Christ answered, "Anyone who does the will of God is my brother and sister"
Clearly Christ is not making any distinction between man and woman.
It really doesn't matter...
You have to forget anything physical because spiritual is different.
IT'S IN A WHOLE NEW LEVEL.
Hope this helps ;-)
--remo
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Does anyone have any insight as to why we are made male and female if indeed as I understand things we will be neither male nor female in the spiritual realm, all relationships as we now know them will be dissolved and all will belong to GOD.As I now understand things there is both motherhood and fatherhood in our GOD. Does anyone think weather we are male or female one day we shall all be both ? ( that is to know both motherhood and fatherhood).We all contend with each other whether male or female in this life it seems just to me that any pride of the flesh would be dissolved including gender as well as any ethnic pride or personal achievements and fleshly sentimentalities.Can't wait for that day.
There is no male and female in the spiritual.
God just wants us to picture having a "family"
Hi remo,
Although it is true there is no male/female in the spiritual there is indeed a Bride and a Bridegroom... The male/female union in the physical is a shadow (an incomplete picture) of this ultimate truth. Yes, God (Father & Son) does want us to picture this as a family, His Family to come, in which Christ is the Bridegroom and His elect (no matter of physical gender) is His Bride. Eventually this spiritual union/marriage will bring to (spiritual) life all of God's creation.
Christ answered in the new testament (i dont remember the chapter and verse)
Someone asked Christ, "Where are your brothers and sisters?"
Christ answered, "Anyone who does the will of God is my brother and sister"
Clearly Christ is not making any distinction between man and woman.
It really doesn't matter...
I believe you are referring to Matthew 12:47-50 & Mark 3:32-35;
Mat12:47 Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee.
Mat12:48 But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren?
Mat12:49 And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!
Mat12:50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.
Mark3:32 And the multitude sat about him, and they said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren without seek for thee.
Mark3:33 And he answered them, saying, Who is my mother, or my brethren?
Mark3:34 And he looked round about on them which sat about him, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!
Mark3:35 For whosoever shall do the will of God, the same is my brother, and my sister, and mother.
Actually Jesus does differentiate between "brothers & sisters" in His reply, but not limiting this relationship to bloodlines...
You have to forget anything physical because spiritual is different.
IT'S IN A WHOLE NEW LEVEL.
I do not think it prudent to "forget anything physical" as Christ Himself came in the flesh and the the natural (physical) comes before the spiritual giving us all an example (albeit "through a glass darkly") of His plan and purpose for us all. The prophets and Jesus Himself gave us spiritual examples to follow while in a physical/natural state. (John 13:15, Hebrews 8:5, James 5:10, 1Peter 2:21) without them how could we be directed to the spiritual truths we yearn for?
Please take this response in the spirit it is given...
Peace,
Joe
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Joe, great to see you!
Thank you Samson, that was a wonderful find.
And Walt, thank you as well. I do not feel slighted by God in any way. Your friend is bitter and who knows what has happened to her that has put her in this place but she rails against the wrong foe. Our enemy is always man and the beast that lives within us. As I always tell my girls, angry people are hurting people.
I found a great article about how Jesus treated women and it helped me tremendously see how much He went against the norm when He walked amongst us.
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Hi Joe, great to see from you brother.
This may not be conventional wisdom, but there is no difference between women and men, at least not as far as Scripture is concerned. We were never complete (but divided) after Gen 2:27, but that is definetely not how we started. The son of mankind (compound) is described very differently than what we keep hearing repeated by christendom and so many others.
Where in Gen 1:27 does it say that it was 2 different people, one male one female created. Note the words used (in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them). This reads like each created being was both male and female, not 2 different unisex beings.
Gen 1:27 (CLV)
And creating is the Elohim humanity in His image. In the image of the Elohim He creates it. Male and female He creates them.
Next God Formed Adam out of the dust of the earth.
Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
Now God Says that Adam needs a companion.
Gen 2:18 And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.
Here below is the first instance when (man and womb-man) are two physical entities.
Gen 2:21 (CLV)
And falling is a stupor on the human, caused by Yahweh Elohim, and he is sleeping. And taking is He one of his angular organs and is closing the flesh under it. 22 And Yahweh Elohim is building the angular organ, which He takes from the human, into a woman, and bringing her is He to the human. 23 And saying is the human, "This was once bone of my bones and flesh from my flesh. This shall be called woman, for from her man is this taken.
This appears to be the son of mankind reunited as one below.
Rev 1:13
(AKJV) And in the middle of the seven candlesticks one like to the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the breasts with a golden girdle.
(ANT+) andG2532 inG1722 [thing] middleG3319 [of] theG3588 lampstandsG3087 {I see} [him] likeG3664 sonG5207 [of] manG444 having wornG1746 [him] longG4158 andG2532 having been wrappedG4024 atG4314 theG3588 breastsG3149 sashG2223 goldenG5552
(CLV) and in the midst of the seven lampstands One like a son of mankind, dressed in a garment reaching to the feet, and girded about at the breasts with a golden girdle."
May be worth the time to really listen to and read all the words, just like Ray has always counseled.
george :o.
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:) God's timing is quintessentially perfect! Male and female is all about timing!
Our Souls are neither male or female.
Ray has said that word blood, as in "life is in the blood" Lev 17:11 should actually read SOUL. Life is in the SOUL!
God is BOTH male and female, WITHIN our souls.
For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, [in us] that he might destroy the works [sin] of the devil [in us]. 1 John 3:8
Loving a flower or a beautiful scene of snow topped mountains or thick tropical forests teaming with life, a symphony or orchestra, is neither a boy or girl thing. Girls can also love motor cross and boys can love ballet.
Universal Love of God The Creator, translates into appreciation, (not worship, or idolatry) APPRECIATION, for God's creation [in us] and all around us ~ that is you and I.
You and I, God and Spirit, are One.
Godly women, cannot help but be smitten by Christ's love and gentle, knowing, comprehensive insight and divine understanding of how He has made us. We ARE the softer and weaker vessels of the Love of the Spirit of God within us.
It is Glorious to be treasured and loved by Jesus Christ within us ~ you and I.
Godly women of the Spirit of Father, shall embrace the Godly man of the Spirit of Christ.
Jer 31:22 How long will you turn to and fro, O faithless daughter? For Jehovah has created a new thing in the land; A WOMAN SHALL ENCLOSE A MAN.
Blessings, love and a BIG HUG to all you wonderful Godly men of the GLORIOUS Kingdom of God.
I am so glad God created a Heavenly Man!
Smitten....captivated....in love
Welcome back Joe!
Arc
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Quote from Joe
"Hi remo,
Although it is true there is no male/female in the spiritual there is indeed a Bride and a Bridegroom... The male/female union in the physical is a shadow (an incomplete picture) of this ultimate truth. Yes, God (Father & Son) does want us to picture this as a family, His Family to come, in which Christ is the Bridegroom and His elect (no matter of physical gender) is His Bride. Eventually this spiritual union/marriage will bring to (spiritual) life all of God's creation."
Isn't the Bride and Bridegroom also symbolic? :-)
I am just saying God wants to make it look like that, but still it's not compared to physical "man-woman being"
Quote from Joe
"I do not think it prudent to "forget anything physical" as Christ Himself came in the flesh and the the natural (physical) comes before the spiritual giving us all an example (albeit "through a glass darkly") of His plan and purpose for us all. The prophets and Jesus Himself gave us spiritual examples to follow while in a physical/natural state. (John 13:15, Hebrews 8:5, James 5:10, 1Peter 2:21) without them how could we be directed to the spiritual truths we yearn for?"
My brother, I just said "forget anything physical" because I AM REFERRING TO WHAT HE
SAID ABOUT IF THERE IS A "MALE OR FEMALE" BEING. ;-) IT'S BASED FROM WHAT HE
SAID... BUT I AM NOT DISSING THE PHYSICAL
I did not say that to forget about anything physical, just to STRESS that in God's Kingdom,
there is neither man or woman. I am referring to what he said.
Hope you get my point. I don't anything against anyone ;-)
--remo
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Great thread, Flock.
Thanks Samson, for another great study post.
Hey Arc, I once got 'entwined with a cactus'.
Wow, was I glad when she left!
;D
Grape
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Hope you get my point. I don't anything against anyone ;-)
--remo
Yes, I understand where you are coming from remo, no issues, no problems here at all!
It is a good thing to contemplate His Word especially when we apply it to our day to day lives.
Peace,
Joe
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Joe, great to see you!
Thank you Linny!
Peace,
Joe
Hi Joe, great to see from you brother.
Hi George,
Thank you!
Joe
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Hi Everyone,
This will be my final post on this thread, it appears only Kat can see the type/shadow significance of the male/female in regard to Christ and His church, the fulfillment spoken of in the verses I quoted from Revelation (and others) earlier in the thread.
It would appear that Paul also used this analogy in Ephesians Chapter 5;
Ephesians 5
21Submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God.
22Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.
23For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
24Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.
25Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
26That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
27That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.
28So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself.
29For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church:
30For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.
31For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.
32This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.
33Nevertheless let every one of you in particular so love his wife even as himself; and the wife see that she reverence her husband.
It has been a very interesting and fruitful thread!
Peace,
Joe
P.S. I meant to add this email reply from Ray but posted before doing so... here it is;
Dear George:
I am thinking that you believe Gal. 3:27 voids out I Cor. 14:34? If it does, the why would Paul have written it?
The answer is quote simple:
"IN CHRIST" there is no "male or female." But, IN THE FLESH there still is male and female, otherwise homosexuality would not be a sin. Can you see how silly that approach to this Scripture would be?
We are still in physical bodies and we are still male and female, and as such the man is the head of the woman just as Jesus is the head of the Church. And as such, Paul did not permit women to preach or teach in the congregation. However, there are many situation in which women can teach: to their children (both girls and boys); on the telephone, in letters, in group discussions, etc. I believe their teaching is just pretty much limited in the area of not getting in front of an assembly of men and women and being featured as the main speaker or teacher. Not that she might not be able or qualified, but rather it is a matter of subjection to authority. I have never done a long study on this subject, but I have read several papers by those who have, and most of them are shot through with theological holes.
God be with you,
Ray
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Welcome back Joe!
Arc
Oops, I failed to respond to your welcome Arc... :o
Thank you VERY much!
Peace,
Joe
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I know I don't seem to contribute much but I always particularly enjoyed your posts Joe, its very good to see you back!
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I know I don't seem to contribute much but I always particularly enjoyed your posts Joe, its very good to see you back!
Hi myms,
Thanks for the kind words and the warm welcome!
Peace,
Joe
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When they are so EMOTIONALLY INTERTWINED with one another, that they are literally one flesh. This is the relationship we’re going to have with God. L Ray Smith (Caps for emphasis to topic)
EMOTIONALLY INTERTWINED. Not physically, financially or religiously, culturally or economically intertwined. EMOTIONALLY intertwined!
Who gets intertwined with a thorn bush? :D
Just as the husband and wife become one flesh, God wants to be that intimate with humanity, LIKE one flesh. L. Ray Smith (Caps for emphasis to topic)
Emotional intertwinement cannot be desired with a cactus. God shall remove the thorns and who does He say this is for?
.........it’s for everyone. L Ray Smith.
IT’S FOR EVERYONE! That’s very good news! It is GREAT NEWS!
Samson, that was a magnificent, Samson post! Thank you brother!
Dear brother walt
THANK YOU for the light of Christ you shine into our sisters and the daughters of the Kingdom of our Sovereign God!
Blessings
Arc
The following response is primarily directed to Deborah(Arcturus), but before making a comment, I'd like to Welcome Back Joe Hillsbororiver and to thank Him for His good responses & Clarification regarding the Physical/Spiritual aspect of the Male/Female relationship He presented.
Deborah,
Thanks for Your emphasis about being EMOTIONALLY INTERTWINED. You perceived very well. It was especially interesting and profound for me, because John Popovich and I were discussing how a major part of the learning process that God planned providing this Male/Female(Husband/Wife) relationship for Our experience. Overall, what constitutes the longest and most time spent relationship that MOST of us experience(Good/Evil) while living in the Flesh. Why it's the time spent with ones Mate. Since God is both male & female, Spiritually speaking, Most of us get the opportunity to experience firsthand the female or male half through this relationship. This serves to better acquaint us with Emotions, thoughts, desires and perspectives from the struggles, trials, disagreements, differences, etc from this lifelong process presented through this Male/Female relationship. For Males(Husbands), it begins with experiencing the Female perspective in Childhood with Our Mothers and continues with Our Wives. This is all part of the process and the preparation towards learning about the qualities of Our Male/Female God. Of course, this Male/Female relationship is part of Our lifelong experience of Good & Evil for "CREATING HUMANITY" in His image which consists of the Male & Female aspect.
Kind Regards, Samson.
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Grape, you are a heavenly delight! ;D
Joe,
All the Saints salute you! :)
Samson, thank you, and John Popovich, for your insights.
I would definitely include that "living in the spirit” is as much Scriptural as is, " living in the flesh." To deny either is to deny the fullness of Christ Who is the Sum Total of Truth.
Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of His.
I agree with everything you have observed, Samson.
We are earth vessels of the Kingdom of God. If we seek first the Kingdom of God, then we “emotionally intertwine” with members of the Kingdom of God, in mutual regard of CHRIST, for God, and the things of God, within us.
1Co 12:27 Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.
We are members of His Body with the earnest of the Spirit of Jesus Christ, HIS Spirit, IN us.
Col 1:27 to whom God wanted to make known the glorious riches of this secret among the gentiles-which is Christ IN you, the hope of glory.
The Kingdom has no gender but is ALL OF GOD. It is like asking, is the USA masculine or feminine? Or is Spain a man or woman.
Yes there is Adam and Eve. Yes there is Christ and His Church and yes there is the Spirit and the Bride.
Is Spirit male or female? Why argue? :)
1Co 11:12 For as the woman is of the man, even so is the man also by the woman; but ALL THINGS OF GOD.
Every Blessing of The Kingdom of God, to both you and to John Popovich, Samson
Arc
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Hi Joe!!!!!! So nice to hear from you!!!!!!
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Dear Samson & Judy,
Thank you both for the big welcome!
Peace,
Joe
P.S. Very kind words Arc, much appreciated.
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Welcome back Joe...Its nice to hear from you.
Iris
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2Co 6:18 "I will be a Father to you,
And you shall be My sons and daughters,
Says the LORD Almighty."
Isn't this speaking that we will be "sons and daughters" of the kingdom as well as now? Well what I was thinking is that in the kingdom we will no longer have those things that hinder us of the flesh, the pulls that cause us to sin, weaknesses and the only authority over any of us will be God.
We will retain our personality and the unique things that makes us individuals. So that makes me think that we will still have the traits of a woman/daughter or a man/son. What I mean is won't we still recognize each other when we are in the kingdom, from what we remembered about us in the physical? So I'm just thinking maybe we will carry with us those things that give us a feminine/masculine personality. Now I don't think there are any Scripture that say such a thing, but this is just something I was thinking about in relation to this topic.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
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Hi Kat,
Perhaps we could start another thread with your thought as a new topic...
I believe we are on the same page here;
Proverbs 25:4 Remove the dross from the silver and a silversmith can produce a vessel;
Peace,
Joe
P.S. Hi Iris, thanks for the greeting!
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2Co 6:18 "I will be a Father to you,
And you shall be My sons and daughters,
Says the LORD Almighty."
Isn't this speaking that we will be "sons and daughters" of the kingdom as well as now? Well what I was thinking is that in the kingdom we will no longer have those things that hinder us of the flesh, the pulls that cause us to sin, weaknesses and the only authority over any of us will be God.
We will retain our personality and the unique things that makes us individuals. So that makes me think that we will still have the traits of a woman/daughter or a man/son. What I mean is won't we still recognize each other when we are in the kingdom, from what we remembered about us in the physical? So I'm just thinking maybe we will carry with us those things that give us a feminine/masculine personality. Now I don't think there are any Scripture that say such a thing, but this is just something I was thinking about in relation to this topic.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
This is something I've pondered also...
It's not in the scriptures, as far as I know.
But I don't think we will "remember" each other there..
Because if we do, "we will be able to remember the good and bad experiences with that person"
AND THAT WOULD PULL US OUT TO SIN AGAIN...
I don't know how God will pull this off.
I JUST TRUST HIM THAT EVERYTHING THAT WILL HAPPEN IN THE FUTURE WILL BE NOTHING SHORT OF "MARVELOUS"
Grace & Peace to us all ;-)
--remo
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Hi Remo,
Here is an email.
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,735.0.html ------
Will we know our family and friends as we know them now when we return from the grave?
Dear Michael:
Yes, of course we will. Furthermore, we will know EVERYONE ELSE as well. But don't ask me about your favorite dog. I do not have a Scriptural answer for that one.
God be with you,
Ray
---------------------------------------------------------
For those born into the kingdom at Christ's return they will become one with God just as Jesus Christ is. The way Jesus was able to resist sin, yet be tempted in all points, was He was fulled with the Holy Spirit. So once you enter the kingdom you will be spirit and there will be no more carnal flesh.
I think that these experiences that we are having now, in the physical, are designed to have an profound and permanent impact on us from now on. We will always remember these experiences and certainly one another. This evil/carnal/beast nature serves as a backdrop that we will never forget the suffering caused by it, because we have first hand experience of it. Hope you understand what I mean.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
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Just as the husband and wife become one flesh, God wants to be that intimate with humanity, LIKE one flesh. L. Ray Smith (Caps for emphasis to topic)
Therefore we suffer one and others pains, sorrow, weekness, etc.
Is this true!
It also seems that we bare each others sin????????
Mind my ignorance!
I'll post more if I get confirmation of the above.
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2Co 6:18 "I will be a Father to you,
And you shall be My sons and daughters,
Says the LORD Almighty."
Isn't this speaking that we will be "sons and daughters" of the kingdom as well as now?
Hi Kathy
You had to have seen The Light to have come up with that question! 8)
Was the light you saw: But as many as received Him, to them He gave power to BECOME the sons of God, even to those who believe on His Name?
Power given by God, is to BECOME a son or daughter of God, not immediately BE a son of God.
Belief in the Name of Jesus is the start, not the end.
Jesus is the Word of God, not the end of God.
Christ's words to us confirm that:
The word (Jesus) is near you, even in your mouth, and in your heart [so you may do it]; that is, the word of faith. So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God [from within your heart], Rom 10:8,17, Deu 30:11-14.
When His Perfect love casts out fear, ALL OLD THINGS PASS AWAY.
Hi 1Luv ~ :)
Gal 6:2 Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.
As far as I know, we bear one anothers burdens, (that is, we should!) not sins.
Blessings
Arc
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Hi Arc
Thanks for the scripture, did a lot of reading & searching on that today, You're such a blessing to this forum, I also wanted to know in my first post if there's any bible study or home cell (of like minded humans) that I can attend in RSA, JHB. I read your profile and noticed that you're RSA citizen.
Please advise!
As for this topic, so husban & wife don't bear each others sin, right! example: if I sinned, my wife will not be chastened with me, yeah!
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Hi 1Luv,
As for this topic, so husban & wife don't bear each others sin, right! example: if I sinned, my wife will not be chastened with me, yeah!
Rom 14:12 So then each of us shall give account of himself to God.
1Co 3:13 each one's work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one's work, of what sort it is.
Each person has to answer for themself. Someone would not have to account for someone else's sin. Even if someone forced a person to do something, sin come from the heart and God knows exactly what the intention of our heart is.
Heb 4:13 And there is no creature hidden from His sight, but all things are naked and open to the eyes of Him to whom we must give account.
Just thought I would show you a few Scripture that might help with this matter.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
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AMEN ARC xx
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Hi Luv1
Your kind words certainly testify of the fruit of the Spirit, that being, kindness. 8)
sansmile ~ :)
Blessings
Arc
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Great post! Great answers! Good Study! Thanks to all :D