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=> General Discussions => Topic started by: Beloved on July 30, 2006, 05:14:10 PM
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Who out there cannot identify with Michele in Unequally Yolked email. You do not have to be married to feel her plight.
I loved Ray’s gentle response. I really liked that he did not paint a false rosey picture like Babylon believers would have (that everything will get better if only she believes). He was honest and told her that he himself was not immune to the exact same problems and that tribulations are to be expected. Today’s church really cannot stomach this teaching.
Michele does seem to understand God’s soveirgnty regarding her husband and her child’s salvation. We can all sympathize that this can sometimes feel pain when we walk this “lonely” road (but we now know that this is only lonely carnally not spiritually).
Regarding her husband interest in science, we have all had to deal with some of these issues. Being in science myself I deal with these putdowns daily.
Since the times of enlightenment, science has divorced itself from God. It is absorbed with man’s ability to learn. Science not only wants to gather these things about itself, because carnal man wants to be the center of his own little universe. The more he possesses the greater his universe seems to be and the greater his feeling of confidence and assurance.
I do not think Michele should worry about what to say to her child or husband, if Christ is within
(Luk 12:12 KJVR) For the Holy Ghost shall teach you in the same hour what ye ought to say.
I pray that Michele will learn as she reads more and more that everything that is happening to her is God’s will and part of His plan. While they are foolishily looking for the Theory of Everything (string theory stuff): God has All of the answers to the Universe. He is all in all.
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(1Co 2:12 KJVR) Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
(1Co 2:13 KJVR) Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
(1Co 2:14 KJVR) But the natural man (like her husband) receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
(1Co 1:26 KJVR) For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:
(1Co 1:27 KJVR) But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;
There are so many believers that are unequally yolked. It is my hope that fully comprehending these scriptures will help give all of us more peace and help reduce some of our anxiety.
Beloved
(http://www.clicksmilies.com/s0105/liebe/love-smiley-041.gif)
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Dear Beloved,
I had just read Michele's e-mail (totally gut wrenching!) and then saw your response. I came from a (christian) tradition that placed people who were unequally yoked in a place of scorn and marginalization......and as you pointed out- so much pressure to believe the right thing and do the right thing and become responsible for that spouse's conversion. Such anguish. It certainly is not easy to live with a partner who has a very different paradigm under any circumstances but traditional thinking often made it unbearable for the unfortunate Christian spouse. I think we need to understand that when one member is suffering we are all suffering-and show godly compassion and encouagement.....part of which is knowing that by much tribulation we enter the kingdom! MUCH!!!!
Not to mention- if one of your children (who were "saved" in the old method and baptized) dated, or heavens-to-betsy- married an unbeliever- well.....scorn is a nice way to put it and shame is the end result.
I would like to see some scholarly thinking and spiritual discernment on the whole concept of "unequally" yoked because it seems to be another type of burden that pharisees seem to be putting on believers.
I read a devotion by Oswald Chambers years ago that said- paraphrasing- "literal interpretation of the scriptures is mere child's play; it is the spiritual interpretation that is the work of the mature believer." So much literal has hurt so many people.
Sorry to ramble.
Hope this has been edifying and not a rant!
I usually don't post because I don't have the smarts to answer anything! ???
hart4god
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I would like to see some scholarly thinking and spiritual discernment on the whole concept of "unequally" yoked because it seems to be another type of burden that pharisees seem to be putting on believers.
I read a devotion by Oswald Chambers years ago that said- paraphrasing- "literal interpretation of the scriptures is mere child's play; it is the spiritual interpretation that is the work of the mature believer." So much literal has hurt so many people.
Sorry to ramble.
Hope this has been edifying and not a rant!
I usually don't post because I don't have the smarts to answer anything!
hart4god
Touche hart4 god You do not need smarts you only need spiritual discernment. You are absolutely right about the "Unequal yolked" it can be a pharaseical burden. It doesn't matter about the load because we are to bear each others burdens.
You do not need smarts... look at Solomon... it did not really help him much. He did finally see the light and proclaim that it is All vanity. I may have been blessed with intelligence but like Paul I count it all dung. In science you can say and prove anything with statistics. But that does not make it fact. I wish the media would tell people that.
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Please forgive my ramblings.......
I am the Michele that wrote to Ray about being unequally yolked.
I am still reading the articles on Ray's site when I feel I can comprehend what Ray has written. I won't say that I understand or comprehend and sometimes it's hard to believe and understand some of the things, but most things seem to answer the questions in a much more comprhensible way than anything I"ve ever experienced before and I'm truly thankful for that. The rest I'll just dwell on, maybe indefinately.......ha.
I don't want to present myself like I'm "what I"m supposed to be"...I know that's not true and it makes me feel guilty if I think someone thinks this about me. I'm as sinful as anyone could be, willfully sinful. I try to be a good person but being a good person doesn't mean that your sinless, goodness knows and I'm certainly not that, guess none of us are.
We each have our own story..well, maybe somebody out there has had a "dream life", most of us have not. My childhood of sexual abuse and being married to my non-believing spouse for 18 years, my mother dying suddenly two years ago, I don't have a good relationship with my father, and worried for my daughters spiritual well being. (well I used to be but it's getting better!)..it has taken a toll on my spirit which I am trying to recover.
I want to say something, after being married to a non-believing spouse for so long, I've really seen where they are coming from. I kind of imagine standing on a line, on one side are atheists (or persons who can't see anything and truly cannot conceive of anything except what their human senses tell them..which is completely natural if God hasn't enlightened you right?.... and therefore only believe in themselves and on the other side are persons of all types of beliefs in "something", this includes some of them believing in "God". I never liked the idea, ever, of God torturing persons forever in fire...for any reason. Who could? I could never reconcile the thought of a "loving God" with that "hellish" image of God. And after marrying a non-believer it was truly intolerable...this is why I kept searching...and out of desperation and heartsick/spiritsick, I found Ray's site and it offered Hope, so of course I'm going to read it all. And still yet I have to fight the fears, the "old christian fears" that I was taught all my life are still haunting me...that's why I came here for help and reassurance. I need "reprogramming". I am starting to truly accept it ast the Truth though because I am much more calm and relaxed than I used to be about it all...before I thought that if my husband didn't "Choose to "Believe" he was doomed, and I was scared he might take our child with him.....I am learning this is WRONG...THANK God!!!
(Question1) If a non-believer doesn't "Believe" that means that God has not called them to know Him, RIGHT? Therefore we should Not blame/judge them for not believing in God/Jesus because it isn't thier fault or choice??? Please correct me if I say anything wrong...this is all new to me.
I was sexually abused as child and it's very very hard for me to trust, I question Everything. I question scripture (whether it's true or manmade or legend/myth) even when I'm trying to learn from it and follow it because it's so hard for me to believe anyone or anything. I question Gods existance, more because I'm married to a non-believer than anything. I guess that's why God says don't marry a non-believer. It does cause traumas in a relationship.............................BUT, it truly wouldn't be so intolerable, fearful and unhappy for Believing Partner of the Unequally Yolked couple if the Believer Knew that no matter what, We're all going to Choose God and we're all going to end up in Heaven. Please help me believe this to down to my soul! This is my fervent prayer because with this I can Live with so much less fear and so much more happiness. I went on the internet the other day looking at the terms unequally yolked and there was a woman "christian", who I think was trying to "help" young women/men before they chose to marry a Non-believer like she had http://net-burst.net/ruth/mismatched.htm here is the website (If it's ok to post it so others can read it). I think she is trying to be helpful...but at the same time there is something there that bothers me badly. I haven't personally asked her if she's worried that her spouse is going to end up in "HELL", but I"m sure she's thinking that. If any of you would read this site, I'd appreciate your thoughts on it. I'm sure she has a lot of good points, but at the same time it seems to totally put all of the blame squarely on her shoulders and doesn't speak of any Hope whatsoever, and she obviously doesn't believe that all of her children or husband are going to end up in heaven....
I believe now that God says do not marry a non-believer because it can and usually does cause problems in a marriage because you cannot "share" God with one another.
That's obviously true, I will regret that aspect for all of my life. BUT, the scriptures also state if you are married to a Non-believer that you are to Stay with them if they want to stay married to you. IF the believing spouse KNEW what I am learning now, that he/she is NOT responcible for Saving their Spouse OR anyone else in their family (I am right aren't i?) and that their Spouse and Children are all going to Heaven REGARDLESS....someday No Matter WHAT.... the believer in the famiy could get on with worshiping/learning about God in their own way without worrying themselves to death about everyone else in their family.....
Does anyone have any confirmation on this? I can tell you from living this life personally that when I can make myself believe the GOOD NEWS about this, that it's all going to be, OK, that my life is Much happier.
I have spiritual highs and super lows. Somedays I feel as if God is right next to me and other days I say "God if you're really there and can hear me" ......and then I ask Him to forgive me for that and I do this a lot... That's what's so funny, I've been mightly low before and I was right next to believing that God isn't real after all, but after thinking that thought I Always ask God to forgive me!
I find life deeply wonderful and deeply confusing and scary too. I am a woman, flesh and blood. I want to be Human and just live and love and be happy without chronic fear, worry and guilt. Sometimes I just want to LIVE and dont' want to Think at all. I have as many carnal and sinful thoughts as anybody....and I think, well your only Human..which after all is what God created me to be. And on the otherhand I feel the fear that was pounded into me from early childhood about the horrible things God's got in store for me if I'm not a "good little girl".
So here I am, me, myself and I. I want to be human and carnal, and at the same time I want to be good and spiritual as God wants me to be....and it just doesn't feel possible to do both at the same time. Sometimes I feel like I've been fighting a battle all my life....aren't we all?
What I am Hoping to find here is a Balance for the rest of my life and to finally learn the Truth.
I want to learn a new way of thinking about the world and about my personal purpose in life.
I want to learn the Truth about God.
I want to learn more about what God wants from me.
And since I"ve been scared to death my whole life, I am especially interested in the Hope and Goodness and Forgiveness that God has in store for me, and all of us no matter how sinful and unworthy we all are.
I guess I want someone to tell me that I'm OK and God loves me no matter what.
That it's ok to be ME.
I could do with some good news.
Thank you all for listening to my ramblings, I have many more.
Michele
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I read a devotion by Oswald Chambers years ago that said- paraphrasing- "literal interpretation of the scriptures is mere child's play; it is the spiritual interpretation that is the work of the mature believer." So much literal has hurt so many people.
Blessed are . . ." Matthew 5:3-10
When we first read the statements of Jesus they seem wonderfully simple and unstartling, and they sink unobserved into our unconscious minds. For instance, the Beatitudes seem merely mild and beautiful precepts for all unworldly and useless people, but of very little practical use in the stern workaday world in which we live. We soon find, however, that the Beatitudes contain the dynamite of the Holy Ghost. They explode, as it were, when the circumstances of our lives cause them to do so. When the Holy Spirit brings to our remembrance one of these Beatitudes we say - 'What a startling statement that is!' and we have to decide whether we will accept the tremendous spiritual upheaval that will be produced in our circumstances if we obey His words. That is the way the Spirit of God works. We do not need to be born again to apply the Sermon on the Mount literally. The literal interpretation of the Sermon on the Mount is child's play; the interpretation by the Spirit of God as He applies Our Lord's statements to our circumstances is the stern work of a saint.
The teaching of Jesus is out of all proportion to our natural way of looking at things and it comes with astonishing discomfort to begin with. We have slowly to form our walk and conversation on the line of the precepts of Jesus Christ as the Holy Spirit applies them to our circumstances. The Sermon on the Mount is not a set of rules and regulations: it is a statement of the life we will live when the Holy Spirit is getting His way with us.
Since this is a originated a while back here is a link (http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,1505.0.html) to the email spoken about.
Bill
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Please forgive my ramblings....... Hi, Michele, I am going to make a few comments through your post, I pray this will be of some help.
I am the Michele that wrote to Ray about being unequally yolked.
I am still reading the articles on Ray's site when I feel I can comprehend what Ray has written. I won't say that I understand or comprehend and sometimes it's hard to believe and understand some of the things, but most things seem to answer the questions in a much more comprhensible way than anything I"ve ever experienced before and I'm truly thankful for that. The rest I'll just dwell on, maybe indefinately.......ha.
This is the best way to study the articles, read and reread, I continually find new insights every time.
I don't want to present myself like I'm "what I"m supposed to be"...I know that's not true and it makes me feel guilty if I think someone thinks this about me. I'm as sinful as anyone could be, willfully sinful. I try to be a good person but being a good person doesn't mean that your sinless, goodness knows and I'm certainly not that, guess none of us are.
"Trying" on our own is a sure way of failing, the secret is to actually let go of our own will and submit ourselves to His will.
Joh 3:30 He must increase, but I must decrease.
We each have our own story..well, maybe somebody out there has had a "dream life", most of us have not. My childhood of sexual abuse and being married to my non-believing spouse for 18 years, my mother dying suddenly two years ago, I don't have a good relationship with my father, and worried for my daughters spiritual well being. (well I used to be but it's getting better!)..it has taken a toll on my spirit which I am trying to recover.
It is incredible how many of us here have all had many of the same experiences, the bumpy, rocky road we have traveled has led us to Him.
I want to say something, after being married to a non-believing spouse for so long, I've really seen where they are coming from. I kind of imagine standing on a line, on one side are atheists (or persons who can't see anything and truly cannot conceive of anything except what their human senses tell them..which is completely natural if God hasn't enlightened you right?.... and therefore only believe in themselves and on the other side are persons of all types of beliefs in "something", this includes some of them believing in "God". I never liked the idea, ever, of God torturing persons forever in fire...for any reason. Who could? I could never reconcile the thought of a "loving God" with that "hellish" image of God. And after marrying a non-believer it was truly intolerable...this is why I kept searching...and out of desperation and heartsick/spiritsick, I found Ray's site and it offered Hope, so of course I'm going to read it all. And still yet I have to fight the fears, the "old christian fears" that I was taught all my life are still haunting me...that's why I came here for help and reassurance. I need "reprogramming". I am starting to truly accept it ast the Truth though because I am much more calm and relaxed than I used to be about it all...before I thought that if my husband didn't "Choose to "Believe" he was doomed, and I was scared he might take our child with him.....I am learning this is WRONG...THANK God!!!
I too can see how many refuse to believe in a god that would create us the way he did and then threaten us with eternal pain and punishment for
succumbing to the very vanity we were born with.
Rom 8:20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
The truth is that our God is the very source of goodness and love, many non believers imagine themselves to be more compassionate than the (they think imaginary or mythical) Lord, but remember the image they have of Him has been fostered by the traditions of the denominations. Some day they will come to this realization.
Job 4:17 Shall mortal man be more just than God? shall a man be more pure than his maker?
(Question1) If a non-believer doesn't "Believe" that means that God has not called them to know Him, RIGHT? Right Therefore we should Not blame/judge them for not believing in God/Jesus because it isn't thier fault or choice??? Exactly Please correct me if I say anything wrong...this is all new to me.
Keep reading the articles, this will be cleared up, the unbelievers have yet to be called.
I was sexually abused as child and it's very very hard for me to trust, I question Everything. I question scripture (whether it's true or manmade or legend/myth) even when I'm trying to learn from it and follow it because it's so hard for me to believe anyone or anything. I question Gods existance, more because I'm married to a non-believer than anything. I guess that's why God says don't marry a non-believer. It does cause traumas in a relationship.............................
Yes, it must be difficult to be married to an unbeliever but as some will tell you here it is also very difficult to be married to someone who believes in "the church" rather than the Lord. It is a test of patience that they cannot see the things we do.
BUT, it truly wouldn't be so intolerable, fearful and unhappy for Believing Partner of the Unequally Yolked couple if the Believer Knew that no matter what, We're all going to Choose God and we're all going to end up in Heaven. Please help me believe this to down to my soul! This is my fervent prayer because with this I can Live with so much less fear and so much more happiness. I went on the internet the other day looking at the terms unequally yolked and there was a woman "christian", who I think was trying to "help" young women/men before they chose to marry a Non-believer like she had http://net-burst.net/ruth/mismatched.htm here is the website (If it's ok to post it so others can read it). I think she is trying to be helpful...but at the same time there is something there that bothers me badly. I haven't personally asked her if she's worried that her spouse is going to end up in "HELL", but I"m sure she's thinking that. If any of you would read this site, I'd appreciate your thoughts on it. I'm sure she has a lot of good points, but at the same time it seems to totally put all of the blame squarely on her shoulders and doesn't speak of any Hope whatsoever, and she obviously doesn't believe that all of her children or husband are going to end up in heaven....
Normally we do not post links to "christian" sites here but this is more of what Ray likes to call "Comedy Hour" the TV preachers with their "hellfire and brimstone, please mail the check to".............. I think these type of folks actually turn people cold toward the very idea of God.
I believe now that God says do not marry a non-believer because it can and usually does cause problems in a marriage because you cannot "share" God with one another.
That's obviously true, I will regret that aspect for all of my life. BUT, the scriptures also state if you are married to a Non-believer that you are to Stay with them if they want to stay married to you. IF the believing spouse KNEW what I am learning now, that he/she is NOT responcible for Saving their Spouse OR anyone else in their family (I am right aren't i?)
Yes, you are right, you (or I) will never "save" anyone, only God can save, and he does it in His time and season.
1Co 7:13 And the woman which hath a husband that believeth not, and if he be pleased to dwell with her, let her not leave him.
1Co 7:14 For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy.
and that their Spouse and Children are all going to Heaven REGARDLESS....someday No Matter WHAT.... the believer in the famiy could get on with worshiping/learning about God in their own way without worrying themselves to death about everyone else in their family.....
Does anyone have any confirmation on this? I can tell you from living this life personally that when I can make myself believe the GOOD NEWS about this, that it's all going to be, OK, that my life is Much happier.
Here is what God says about the ultimate reality of whatever He wills;
Isa 46:9 Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me,
Isa 46:10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:
Isa 55:11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.
What is God's will?
1Ti 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior;
1Ti 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
(Read this article for a deeper understanding;) http://bible-truths.com/lake3.html
I have spiritual highs and super lows. Somedays I feel as if God is right next to me and other days I say "God if you're really there and can hear me" ......and then I ask Him to forgive me for that and I do this a lot... That's what's so funny, I've been mightly low before and I was right next to believing that God isn't real after all, but after thinking that thought I Always ask God to forgive me!
I find life deeply wonderful and deeply confusing and scary too. I am a woman, flesh and blood. I want to be Human and just live and love and be happy without chronic fear, worry and guilt. Sometimes I just want to LIVE and dont' want to Think at all. I have as many carnal and sinful thoughts as anybody....and I think, well your only Human..which after all is what God created me to be. And on the otherhand I feel the fear that was pounded into me from early childhood about the horrible things God's got in store for me if I'm not a "good little girl".
1Pe 4:12 Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you:
So here I am, me, myself and I. I want to be human and carnal, and at the same time I want to be good and spiritual as God wants me to be....and it just doesn't feel possible to do both at the same time. Sometimes I feel like I've been fighting a battle all my life....aren't we all?
Yes, we are.
Rom 5:3 And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;
1Pe 1:7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honor and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:
What I am Hoping to find here is a Balance for the rest of my life and to finally learn the Truth.
I want to learn a new way of thinking about the world and about my personal purpose in life.
I want to learn the Truth about God.
I want to learn more about what God wants from me.
And since I"ve been scared to death my whole life, I am especially interested in the Hope and Goodness and Forgiveness that God has in store for me, and all of us no matter how sinful and unworthy we all are.
I guess I want someone to tell me that I'm OK and God loves me no matter what.
That it's ok to be ME.
I could do with some good news.
There are many members here who will edify and share with you, there will be real treasures revealed through the articles on Bible Truths, the members of this Forum and most of all from Him, the One that is opening your eyes, our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ!
Thank you all for listening to my ramblings, I have many more. LOL :D
Michele
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Hi Michele,
It's nice to see you posting.
You are right, we should not judge the non believer. We must be called. You are also not responsible for trying to "save" them. I believe that the best thing we can do is to pray for them, and to show them a shining example of what Christ has done for us. If you are at a point that you feel you have nothing to "show", then just do the best you can, continue to pray and study. If you have been called, God WILL complete the good work started in you. It takes time.
You are correct Michele. You don't need to worry about your family. God loves them, and he knows what is best for them. In HIS time, and in HIS way, he will direct their lives in order to complete their purpose here on this earth. You do need to just keep going in the direction you are going. Love your family all the more, armed with this knowledge. You may be the shining star of your family, give them the best example of a Christ-like life for them to see. Remember:
Mat 5:16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.
Luk 8:16 No man, when he hath lighted a candle, covereth it with a vessel, or putteth it under a bed; but setteth it on a candlestick, that they which enter in may see the light.
Michele, you are loved beyond measure. Everything that you have experienced was for a purpose. You are exactly as you are supposed to be, and so is your family, so are we ALL.
As a follower of Christ, you are my family and I love you Michele...God bless you in this difficult walk, but do not fear, put ALL your trust in God and I know that wonderful things will happen in your life.
I hope to talk to you more, Love,
Chuck
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Hi Michelle,
Welcome to the forum. For me the first thing we must realize is that God is a mighty and sovereign God and that everything happens because of him.
I am still reading the articles on Ray's site when I feel I can comprehend what Ray has written. I won't say that I understand or comprehend and sometimes it's hard to believe and understand some of the things, but most things seem to answer the questions in a much more comprhensible way than anything I"ve ever experienced before and I'm truly thankful for that. The rest I'll just dwell on, maybe indefinately.......ha.
Keep reading and with a open bible.
I don't want to present myself like I'm "what I"m supposed to be"...I know that's not true and it makes me feel guilty if I think someone thinks this about me. I'm as sinful as anyone could be, willfully sinful. I try to be a good person but being a good person doesn't mean that your sinless, goodness knows and I'm certainly not that, guess none of us are.
We are marred vessels. Being created in his image. Give it time. I whish I could give you the confidence you need but that will need to come from God.
We each have our own story..well, maybe somebody out there has had a "dream life", most of us have not. My childhood of sexual abuse and being married to my non-believing spouse for 18 years, my mother dying suddenly two years ago, I don't have a good relationship with my father, and worried for my daughters spiritual well being. (well I used to be but it's getting better!)..it has taken a toll on my spirit which I am trying to recover.
You are right we each have our own story. I guess we can be unequally yoked with our spouses in many ways. You may think that it is stressful for being married to an atheist but many here not only believe differently than there spouses and family but find it difficult to even know any one that believes the same. Gods elect are to be the salt of the earth, we are to be scattered and not clumped all together. That is why many come to the Internet to fellowship.
(Question1) If a non-believer doesn't "Believe" that means that God has not called them to know Him, RIGHT? Therefore we should Not blame/judge them for not believing in God/Jesus because it isn't thier fault or choice??? Please correct me if I say anything wrong...this is all new to me.
God has to drag us to him.
I question scripture (whether it's true or manmade or legend/myth) even when I'm trying to learn from it and follow it because it's so hard for me to believe anyone or anything. I question Gods existance, more because I'm married to a non-believer than anything. I guess that's why God says don't marry a non-believer. It does cause traumas in a relationship.............................BUT, it truly wouldn't be so intolerable, fearful and unhappy for Believing Partner of the Unequally Yolked couple if the Believer Knew that no matter what, We're all going to Choose God and we're all going to end up in Heaven. Please help me believe this to down to my soul!
God is a sovereign God and is working everything for his pleasure. It is all his plan which is a perfect plan from a perfect God and all will be in all and we will all be able to see it as perfect as it is.
Also Heaven is not some geographical place and you will never see ray teach that we go to Heaven.
Keep searching...
Bill
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Hi Michele,
God bless you for your honesty. Welcome to our forum.
Quote from Michele in purple
What I am Hoping to find here is a Balance for the rest of my life and to finally learn the Truth.
My guess is; if you are hoping and looking, you will find. Pray to God always that He will shown you the truth. It works. God does not lie.
Jam 1:5 (CEV) "If any of you need wisdom, you should ask God, and it will be given to you. God is generous and won't correct you for asking."
Act 17:27 (CEV) "God has done all this, so that we will look for him and reach out and find him. He isn't far from any of us,"
I want to learn a new way of thinking about the world and about my personal purpose in life.
A new way of thinking about the world is not to be a part of it. Yes we live in it, but do not need to be of it.
Col 2:8 (CEV) "Don't let anyone fool you by using senseless arguments. These arguments may sound wise, but they are only human teachings. They come from the powers of this world and not from Christ."
Col 2:20 (CEV) "You died with Christ. Now the forces of the universe don't have any power over you. Why do you live as if you had to obey such rules as,"
1Jo 2:17 (CEV) "The world and the desires it causes are disappearing. But if we obey God, we will live forever. "
1Jo 5:19 (CEV) "We are certain that we come from God and that the rest of the world is under the power of the devil. "
I want to learn the Truth about God.
Ask Him. See James1:5 above. God is so good, He wants us to know Him too. He put that will in us. Praise Him!
I want to learn more about what God wants from me.
Ask Him. And wait for His answer. It will come. Stay in His Word, and Jesus will stay in you. Learn the Word and wear it daily. It is your defense in this world.
And since I"ve been scared to death my whole life, I am especially interested in the Hope and Goodness and Forgiveness that God has in store for me, and all of us no matter how sinful and unworthy we all are.
Phi 2:10 (CEV) "So at the name of Jesus everyone will bow down, those in heaven, on earth, and under the earth."
Psa86:5 (LITV) "For You, O Lord, are good and ready to forgive, and rich in mercy to all who call on You".
We ALL will bow down to Jesus. We will want to give him praise. His spirit will be in ALL.
I guess I want someone to tell me that I'm OK and God loves me no matter what. That it's ok to be ME.
God made you Michele, just the way you are and He loves you no matter what.
Jer 10:23 (CEV) "I know, LORD, that we humans are not in control of our own lives. "
I could do with some good news.
Jesus is the Good News. Like a child, become dependant upon him, he will fill you with Himself.
Mat 18:4 (CEV) "But if you are as humble as this child, you are the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.
Love to you Michele.
Your sister in Christ,
Marie
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Hello Michele,
Thank you for sharing your honest needs and desires. Lots of good help from good brothers and sisters to you.
Looks like God is working in you, because you sincerely desire truth and you have the strength to confess your faults.
(Joh 3:20 LITV) For everyone practicing wickedness hates the Light, and does not come to the Light, that his works may not be exposed.
(Joh 3:21 LITV) But the one doing the truth comes to the Light, that his works may be revealed, that they exist, having been worked in God.
Pray to God with the same words in your post, very humbling and upright conversation. God loves the humble:
(Psa 10:17 LITV) O Jehovah, You have heard the desire of the humble; You will prepare their heart; Your ear will hear.
(Isa 57:15 LITV) For so says the high and lofty One who inhabits eternity, and His name is Holy: I dwell in the high and holy place, even with the contrite and humble of spirit; to make live the spirit of the humble and to make live the heart of the contrite ones.
Ask God openly and sincerely as your post and He will begin to open things to you, which will give you a great sense of peace.
Good to see you post, keep in touch.
God bless,
Gary
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Hi everyone!
Sorry I haven't posted in a while. Lots of turmoil in the house seein's how I am starting to get all this and my wife, a devout believer in Jesus Christ, thinks I've gone off the deep end ...again. Anyway, I think at this point I would have a lot more peace if I were married to an athiest...but that's not why I'm writing tonight.
I just wanted to say that I get all goose bumpy so many times when I'm reading people's posts and Michele's (right on Michele) is a perfect example. I start going "yes, yes, YES!!!" deep inside...it's kinda groovy...hehe
I just realized I sound like a hippie even though I never was... :D
the Lord bless you all!
Dale Ray
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Amen, Dale Ray!
I hear you, Michele. It might be a cliche but some of my best friends are non-believers, and, somewhat like Christ perferring to hang out with prostitutes and tax collectors than the pious churchgoing types, I believe perhaps that NOT being brought up with all the nonsense Christendom teaches those now unbelievers might in some ways be better off. But these unbelievers are startignt to come around to letting Christ redeem them precisely because my husband and I love them and they know it.
Speaking of my husband, I don't think it takes being married to an unbeliever to feel unequally yoked. Though my husband got (God willed) me over the church system many years ago, that doesn't mean he doesn't try to throw some heresy at me from time to time. Only through God's will will his heart be lightened so that when I prove to him using Scripture the rapture won't happen he will actually take me seriously. We argue about this all the time! Drives me nuts he can't see it when he can see so many other truths in the Bible. He doesn't believe one has to go to church, but on the other hand he watches Hagee and Osteen. Ugh!
We are here for you, Michele--snorky (Deb)
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Hi all,
One of the many blessings that God has bestowed upon me in my life is a wife who follows my lead in spiritual matters. She doesn't do it blindly, or always in synchronization with my progression, but she always follows where I lead. God gave her the will to trust me in these matters, and I am so thankful for that. It's not that we don't have disagreements, but they are minor, and she always sees the big picture once I explain it to her. It helps keep me on my toes because I feel that God put me in this position, and I try very hard never to forget the magnitude of this awesome responsibility.
My daughter is starting to do the same thing and when I see it, I usually break down...such is the power of this blessing.
BUT....my wife and I argue about everything else...so nothin is perfect... :)
God bless,
Chuck
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Hi there everyone,
I am new here. It seems like a good forum to belong to and my eye was caught on this particular subject, as it is particularly close to my heart.
I have a problem with what St. Paul calls being unequally yoked with unbelievers.
Well the first one is 'what is a believer'? Is it those who believe that 90% of history's inhabitants of this world and in the present time, will be separated from God for eternity?
Is it those who go to church? Is it those who are spiritual but do not conform to any religion? I am coming to believe that a believer is a person who accepts the 'true' gospel that says that God will be All in all.
But if that is the case, and there aren't that many of us around, how does one avoid marrying a non-believer? I mean, do we ask a person of the opposite sex whether they believe that God will be All in all, and then fall in love with them or what?
I married a Jew 13 years ago, when i was in the hell-fire camp (to be honest i didn't know what to believe, i was very impressionable). I literally went through hell, thinking that i had to give up my then boyfriend, who i loved very much. Now i am glad that we got married (we have had our difficult passages but then who doesn't?) Of course i would love my husband to believe what i believe but that is down to God.
I suppose that the ideal would be to only mix with believers but i don't see how we can in this day and age. I don't know in what context St. Paul was speaking in but the only way i can think is that when St. Paul was preaching and forming ecclesia, believers all believed in the sufficency of Christ's death, that He died for All mankind, except for one or two heretics.
But today, there are so many heresies and most have fallen from the faith that how is it possible to only mix with believers?
I don't have all the answers but maybe one of you could tell me if i am way out in what i have just said.
God bless
Nancy
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I really appreciate everyones answers, I have only found comfort here so far and I hope I continue to learn God's Truth.
I have a lot of rants I hope you can help me with...years of anxiety, frustration, and fear to put in it's proper place.
I need help still though. My husband is completely into Carl Sagan and his Cosmos series, Ayn Rand and some guy named Gould who basically says that Jesus was maybe delusional in thinking that he was the son of God and how all of his prophesies didn't come true...... Each and everyone of these authors stands by the concept of "You are Your own and owe noone anything, you happened by chance/evolution, you are your own God) , whatever...and no need for any "Creator"...and people that believe in "God" are those who have no ability to direct their own lives and can't cope with the thought of not having an afterlife and on and on and on.....Is anyone here familiar
OH I am SO CONFUSED!
. When my husband who also loves my daughter very much sits down to share carl sagans "Cosmos" series with her.....and how we all popped up out of a quagmire of chemicals, just add water, no God needed, what am I to do? I feel sick to my stomach and flushed like I"m going to die on the spot because I have nothing that I can say to refute that... except when I told my daughter later that I had no problem with those dvds because I don't know how God created everything and I have no problem really with evolution or not evolution as long as God is given the credit for it all..except God was apparently Not involved in any way and I DO have a big problem with that. ANd I asked my husband (and it took all my courage to do so) I asked him if sagan was an atheist and he replied "Oh yes" in a definate positive as if anything otherwise was unspeakably ridiculous....and I said "I think he's a very smart, nice man and I won't hold his being an athiest against him if he won't hold me Not being an athiest against me". Feels stupid now but it's like I have a terror of anyone thinking that I don't believe in God....and I don't know WHY exactly? Why do I care what Anyone thinks?
It's because I've been lectured/read somewhere in the Bible that it's MY JOB to tell others about God and to speak up when they say god doesn't exist?
I don't know my Bible you guys. Not because I don't want to but because it's always been like reading Greek, long lost ancient Greek at that. I didn't understand it anymore than you could pick up and read Japanese right now (if you're not japanese i mean).
Thus I am here searching for answers.
My husbands study is brimming with non-god books, scientific books...and I have no say in the matter. What am I supposed to say or do? I do not control him and he should not control me either. What about my daughter? She'll read these books someday. I have no choice over whether they represent the truth or not the truth to her. I nearly break out in a sweat when I"m in this room. If they are no threat to me or my beliefs then I shouldn't feel this way should I? I think i feel scared/angry around them because they represent the fact that my husband and I are going in complete opposite directions....yet I still love him and he says he loves me also.
No Wonder there are SO MANY Non Believers in this world! IF it's this confusing for those of us truly searching for God, think of all of those to whom he is non-existant because of the seeming contradictions in this world and in the Bible....etc....so many false teachings of men...on and on and on..........infinity
If any of you have any insights or comments for any of these things I've written or asked, I am truly grateful.
Afterthought: I wonder if I should......
I've also thought even if he doesn't ever believe any of it that he might like knowing that I no longer believe ( or am learning to believe) that he is no longer in danger of spending eternity in "Hell fire". Even if he thinks it's all nonsense, it'd have to be irritating to think that your wife believes that about you and can still go on worshipping this "God" of hers.....See what I mean? I have been asking God for the courage to just send him Ray's website link saying that if he's interested he can read up on what I now believe. Or maybe just make him a card telling him I love him and telling him I don't believe in "Hell" anymore....I dont know...something.
HERE"S WHAT I FOUND ON http://www.christiananswers.net/q-grace/hell.html ABOUT HELL..........................this is what every christian I've ever known believes.
RIGHT HERE -----> http://www.christiananswers.net/q-grace/hell-fire.html
THAT IS THE REASONS WHY I CAN'T JUST LIVE MY LIFE AND WORSHIP GOD AND STOP WORRYING ABOUT "SAVING" EVERYBODY I LOVE (which is ridiculous because I sincerely WANT God and I am riddled with fears and doubts still, let alone Atheists who know God not at all and not necessarily because they've Chosen to deny God!!!) Please HELP me get this straight once and for ALL.
As my sister would say about these Bible scripture interpretations "Why does God let people believe it if it isn't true".....and I say Why are there Catholics, Mormons, Baptists, Methodists, Lutherans, and a zillion others..................
All Help and Sound Advice WELCOME..........
Michele
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Me AGain,
You know, I feel these weird scary feelings about these people who write these books because they are Non God. But you know....other "Christians" and Preachers are always speaking of these persons (Non believers) as if it was their full choice to not believe in God....and maybe for a few who are angry at God ...maybe that's true for people who say "well if god is going to torture people for eternity" then I don't want anything to do with him, ...but then you couldn't say the case there was them not believing in God, those people just don't want anything to do with God.
I'm talking about people who truly think of "God" like you would think of believing/worshipping the tooth-fairy, or santa claus.
These men/women who write these books are just like the rest of us in a way, they are Searching for something. Maybe some of them are so afraid of anything controlling them that they totally shy away from the possibility of it and look everywhere else, or maybe they just cannot see God in any aspect???
I surely don't know.
I have read a few posts here from a couple of persons who said they were scientists or scientifically minded. I would SO appreciate ANything you could show me, lead me to read that would help me stay my course towards God and also help reveal the natural wonders of the world in a way that I could enjoy them as a way to relate to my "science is my religion" spouse.
I find that I've let myself be terrified of Science becasue the scientists of today seem to make a mockery out of God completely....but there must be some scientists out there (I've read 40%) that DO believe in a creator. Please, can any of you help me see science as a way to understand God's creation better....WEll all science is of God's making then everything that scientists discover is something that God allowed to Be, but tell that to an athiest!
Can someone help me reconcile the Bible scriptures and Scientific facts? There must be a way unless everyone thinks God is out to see who would believe what....like many christians say..which cannot be because God already Knows Everything we're going to say or do, right?!
So is the Bible guidelines?
Which is literal and which are parables?
Adam Eve and the Serpant...a story of good/evil and consequences or Literal? They say there are many other civilizations who have such creation stories.
The Flood? Parable story of a good man who obeys God and the destruction of the wicked? Or literal happenings? Science says it would be a structural impossibility for an ark to be created this way much less float.....
But then you've got the virgin birth and Jesus's resurrection, but those were of course miracles....
Please forgive my ignorance. I truly do not know what I believe on any of these subjects.
Sometimes I don't know anything about anything.....All I know for certain is I want to be on God and Jesus good side, out of fear and out of love also. I cannot even imagine what "heaven" is like. I always thought of it as a "place" that "our spirit" dwells....I cannot imagine it other than that.
Hell is still a "fear" I'm trying to stomp out of my soul.
I appreciate all of your help, with all my heart.
Bless you all,
Michele
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Hello Michele,
I appreciate your openess and honesty in looking for the truth. Have you prayed in this same way and asked Him to reveal the truth to you? If you have, hopefully Rays site and this forum will help in some way.
As far as that site teaching of hell, I got through the first sentence and it just amazes me hell is a place for people who reject Christ, so they say. To where I am at now, concerning Christ, those who truly know Christ can in no way possibly even consider Him in that way, impossible. Its just not true. God is full of righteous judgment which leads to repentence and humbleness, and a knowledge of the character of God.
Raising children is a good example of our Father. We, who are sinners, love our children and want the best for them. Yet, would any of us even think of punishing our children so brutally and without mercy? Then they come up with the response, that it is not God sending them to hell, but they chose to go there. It is all hogwash and totally unscriptural. Hope you read and study Rays articles, he teaches these truths in a good and unique way. Very eye opening.
From your posts, I can see God is drawing or dragging you to search for the truth. You are blessed for this. We have common sense (spiritual) for a reason, and through diligence and prayer, He will open our eyes.
As far as science goes, there are others here who know more than I do, but I often think that it was not too many years ago, that the world used to believe the earth was flat and if anyone said anything differently they would of burned them at the stake. The gift of spiritual awakening far exceeds the wisdom of this world.
God bless your search for truth,
Gary
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Hi Michele,
I don't know if your husband is open to reading any of the following, but these books are all written by Phd scientists who explain rather convincingly the problems inherent with Darwinism and evolution, as well as how Einstein's Theory of Relativity might explain the time/space continuums that perplex many in regard to Genesis/creation.
If you check out the following links they can lead you to many other interesting books on this subject.
http://www.amazon.com/Science-God-Gerald-Schroeder/dp/076790303X
http://www.amazon.com/Science-God-Introduction-Scientific-Theology/dp/0802828159/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_k2a_3_txt/104-5271819-8875154?ie=UTF8
http://www.amazon.com/s.html/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_sq/104-5271819-8875154?ie=UTF8&keywords=darwins%20black%20box&index=blended
Maybe this will help, an open mind is crucial.
His Peace to you,
Joe
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Michele,
You sound so anxious and scared...it's ok. You don't have to know everything right now. You're going to be all right. We aren't going to think less of you because you have confusions and questions and anxieties. It's ok to be afraid and to doubt and be confused and seeking answers. We all seem to go through this and it's all ok.
Ok, scientists. I am one of those. I work in research at a university. And yes, I do work with some athiests. My last mentor is one and talked about it all the time and tried to convince others. Now, that said...I have scientist friends who are methodists and catholic and agnostic and hindu and well...the list goes on and on. The fact is, scientists are just like everyone else...a mixture of religions and beliefs. The whole thing that all scientists are athiests is a myth. Yes, there are some and they are very vocal. In the case of my last mentor, he is athiest because he decide the whole bible was a made-up lie because he read revelations and all about hell...and couldn't reconcile it with this supposed god of love that they also talked about. Too many contraditions = lie to him. So he threw the whole thing out. Interestingly enough, his wife goes to some sort of christian church and his daughter believes in God.
I would be happy to discuss these things with you over PM and look things up to help you understand how science and God can coexist. I think the books Joe suggested are an excellent idea to read. I was reading Stephen Hawkings "A Brief History of Time" a little while ago and it hit me, he's describing God. Not in those terms but he is. Freaked me out...but I loved it too. So, I personally see no contradition between science and believing in God and a lot of my co-workers don't either. One thing is...most scientific "breakthroughs" happen by "chance"...a happy set of circimstances where things don't go as they are planned and then all of a sudden wow, is that how this works. And this is openly acknowledged (from the journal Physiology Oct. 2006):
Moreover, discoveries almost always come about when bright independent investigators stumble over unexpected findings and then sort them out. Such stumbling is unpredictable. The bigger the discovery, the more unpredictable. As unnerving as it may seem, the best way to invest in discovery is to fund the best independent investigators and turn them loose to stumble.
Hmmm....I just don't see us coincidently stumbling into things this way without a little help. Kinda sounds like God at work directing the "discoveries" doesn't it? ;) To me, scientific progress is all God unveiling things just a bit at a time. And it is so complex. As Gary said, we used to believe the world was flat. Guess what, we're just as wrong about other things. As Albert Einstein said "the difference between what the most and the least learned people know is inexpressibly trivial in relation to all that is unknown". So, science doens't have all the answers or even the right questions. What we do learn is making people's lives longer...and sometimes better. I study how our bodies work...and it is so elegant and beautiful and perfect. We are all walking miracles. The amount of things that have to go right for us to breathe or for me to type this...it blows my mind.
Anyway, you may not be able to convince your husband, even though you might want to. Only God can open his eyes. As for telling him you dont' believe in hell, pray about it and you'll do what's right. It's ok.
I hope this gives you some comfort. And the offer to discuss this at any length you'd like over PM is always open.
Be at peace. God loves you and is working in you. You're going to be ok.
Love in Christ,
mongoose
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I've continued communicating with a particular member here who has given me much good to think upon. But I always come up with many more questions. Given my situation where I am already unequally yolked I am interested in getting some solid answers to some questions I have.
1. Someone writes in to Ray about being getting into an unequally yolked relationship and whethere he should or not and Ray's responce was of course the bible passage that states "Do not be unequally yolked with a non believer". That is what the passage says. However I would like some further explanations that might help someone coming here if they looked that up. See, if we believe that God is overseeing our lives and actions and presenting us with all the choices and you choose that choice then that means you are supposed to be where you are for a reason right? Meaning if you fall in love with a non-believer then that's where God has allowed you to be? So if that's the case then you are not doing anything wrong by marrying a non-believer? But the traditional church would have you believe that you broke one of Gods laws by getting with a nonbeliever. And what I've been learning here from others is that the reason God states "do not be unequally yolked" is because it will cause Strain in your marriage and he doesn't want you to have to suffer that.....even if you are there because that's where he allowed/led you to go???? Very Confusing!
Conversely God specifically states that non-believers and belivers that are unequally yolked are to stay with one another if the unbelieving spouse wants to stay with you and says how the family and child of the family is sanctified by this union because one of them is a believer and also for those that worry about their childs spiritual welfare in this union the scriptures say that God is Not willing for the child of this union to be lost...(I need to find the scripture, I can't recall it word for word) and that the union and child is blessed or sanctified because one of the parents is a believer.
My point here is that yes, we see what the bible says and that's great to know. But what EXACTLY does it mean for the many of us in this situation?
1.I've been told God is directing our lives or presenting us with a myriad of choices that he wants us to choose from so if we ended up whereever we are then it's because that's the way he wanted it to go....so those of us who have been told by the traditional christian upbringnigs, who live in anguish and guilt daily need to know that THIS IS WHAT God meant for us, in other words we're here for a reason. Right? ANd if that's so we need not feel guillty and we should continue to love our non-believing spouse and if God wants them to know him, HE will do the work on them and our only job as believers is to continue to try seeking Him out and being a non-judgemental, non-pious, humble, examples...so if God chooses to use us to show the non-belivers the way then that's what'll happen. ?????
Someone asked earlier on this same thread what constitutes a Non-beliver? and her question was never addressed?
Is a non-beliver people who don't beliver in God/Jesus Period.
OR
All other religions?
OR
Is a non-beliver people who don't belive in universal restitution....say like nearly everyone in the traditional christian upbringings of today?
People need not only know what the bible scrilptures state, but how to actually think about them and utilize their message in real daily life. IT's especially tough for all of us who grew up in "traditional" christian upbringings who are struggling to find out the real Truth of God's word after all of the false things we've been taught.
Any help here would be greatly appreciated.
Oh, one more thing. I was reading up some stuff here and there were two memebers who were talking about visiting an athiest website i believe, and one said to another to "get out of there it's dangerous"....WHAT does that mean? Why is that dangerous? If you are there doesn't that mean that God allowed you to go there and also, most importantly if God has already spoken to your heart and now you know him, aren't you SAFE from any type of dangers?
ANd furthermore, what are the DANGERS that can happen anyway. IF it is never to late for anyone on this planet...since Jesus died for ALL and we ar e all going to be in Heaven with God and God is not going to torture us in a fabled "hell" for eternity...........WHAT exactly is the terrible things that everyone is trying to avoid....the Dangers that believers worry about for thier non-beliving loved ones facing?????? And why should we worry anyway? God's gonna handle it for the non-belivers, RIght? IT isn't up to US to save anybody????
Please help me with these questions. I seem to be misunderstanding or picking up some contradicting information....or perhaps i just don't understand it all yet.
All help is appreciated.
Thanks!
Michele
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Hi Michele,
Hopefully I can help with a couple things,
Unbelievers; those who do not know or know of Jesus Christ our Saviour,
G571
ἄπιστος
apistos
ap'-is-tos
From G1 (as a negative particle) and G4103; (actively) disbelieving, that is, without Christian faith (specifically a heathen); (passively) untrustworthy (person), or incredible (thing): - that believeth not, faithless, incredible thing, infidel, unbeliever (-ing).
The Called; those who have a knowledge of Jesus Christ but have lost and left their first love;
Rev 2:4 Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.
The Elect; those who have been chosen by God to be a part of His Son's work in bringing the unbelievers and the called to Him in the age(s) to come. Those who have the Spirit of Christ within, a member of His Body who He will keep from deception, guide and inspire to the culmination of Sonship.
Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets and shall show great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
As far as bringing others to Christ, He is the One who does the calling and choosing;
Joh 15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.
Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
Gal 5:25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
Gal 5:26 Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.
Eph 5:9 (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth;)
Eph 5:10 Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord.
Michele, if we live our lives displaying the fruit of the spirit (brotherly love, charity) in all situations we will be given the opportunity to bear witness of Him.
1Pe 3:15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:
His peace and Wisdom to you,
Joe
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Thank you for the partial reply, I think I understand that part now. But I still need help. If anyone knows the answers to this please let me know.
I think a clear difinitive answer to the question for those who are IN relationships/marriage and for those who are thinking about gettting into a relationship with a non-believer. The Bible says "be not unequally yoked", Ray says stay away from them also. Right? But I think people should know THe Right way to think about this situation! There are a great many Believers or trying to-be-believers (those of us who Want to know or who are being called or whyever we are here seeking the Truth) the Truth/God/Jesus/etc... and those who are non-believers.........and the Bible says to not be yoked with non-believers and we need to know WHY did God say that? There are two possible answers:
1.Because He knew how hard it would be on the believer to be with someone who doesn't share their faith...since you've been Called or are being called and they have Not, yet, then they are unable to see/feel what you do and it does cause strife in a marriage...likened to an oxen and a mule pulling together, unevenly, causing troubles.
OR
2..Most people who have been raised in a "typical christian church/upbrining" will be taught that if you do marry a unbeliever YOU have broken one of Gods Laws and are being Punished here on earth because you married an unbeliever and will be punished even more later!
Those two scenarios are two Totally different ways of thinking about this subject which is all important to those of us who are in this situation! So let's get the correct answer on this for those who are in this stressful situation and need the good answer to their questions. I used to think the bad answer, because that's what I was incorrectly taught, but now I believe it's because God loves us and doesn't want us to have strife with our non-believing spouse. The Bible passage that states that if you are married to a non-believer that you are to stay with them if they want to stay with you and that your relationship is sanctified because one of you is a believer and for those that worry about the children of the unequally yoked marriage the Bible says that God is Not Willing for any of them to be Lost.
WHAT does LOST mean anyway?
I'm having to revamp everything I knew before. Traditional Christians think that Lost means burining in "hell" for eternity. What does it truly mean?
Same answer for the unequally yoked friendships? Many of the people I love are unbelievers.
What if you marry into a whole family of unbelievers? What if your spouses whole family are unbelievers, and the other half of your family are "traditional christians" and they all think your Nuts? Wow! What's the answer to how to live happily in that situation?!
There are a great many out there who are living in sickening terror over what tortures God has in store for their unbelieving loved ones and spouses and they deserve to know what the TRUTH IS! Just Google it and you'll find many pages of poor spouses waiting out their lives in terror because they are afraid their spouses are going to burn in hell for all eternity. I can't tell you how many tortured hours I spent worrying about it myself...and I'm still trying to rid myself of it all, all the negative emotions that came with what I am learning to believe were the untruths I was incorrectly taught as a youngster. People write in asking questions about what to do and Ray answers them correctly I believe, but there needs to be more explanation and detail, that's what this area is good for.
And the Bible states that if you are already in an Unequally yoked marriage that you are to stay if the unbelieving spouse wants to stay with you and that your relationship is sanctified because one of you is a believer and for those that worry about their children the Bible says that God is Not Willing for any of them to be Lost.
WHAT does LOST mean anyway?
I'm having to revamp everything I knew before. Traditional Christians think that Lost means burining in "hell" for eternity. What does it truly mean?
Jesus spent a most of his time with non-believers and sinners just trying to love them, .. aren't we supposed to follow his example? I am a bit confused about that.
I was reading up some stuff here and there were two members who were talking about visiting an athiest website i believe, and one said to another to "get out of there it's dangerous"....WHAT does that mean? Why is that dangerous? If God has already spoken to your heart and now you know him, aren't you SAFE from any type of spiritual dangers? "Regular christians' are always going around talking about how you are supposed to be out there gathering souls for God, and then also saying that Satan is out there waiting to "harvest" all the lost souls!!!! What on earth? What I"m getting at is if God has called you, what spiritual dangers are there for you? Is Satan out there trying to trip you up? If God's in leading us then will he allow our own actions to mess us up spiritually?
ANd furthermore, what are the DANGERS that can happen anyway. IF it is never to late for anyone on this planet...since Jesus died for ALL and we ar e all going to be in Heaven with God REGUARDLESS and God is not going to torture us in a fabled "hell" for eternity...........WHAT exactly are the terrible things that everyone talks baout trying to avoid????....the Dangers that believers worry about for thier non-beliving loved ones facing? Huh?? And why should we worry anyway? God's gonna handle it for the non-belivers, RIght? IT isn't up to US to save anybody?
I'm still trying to piece the puzzle together.
Please help me with these questions. I seem to be misunderstanding or picking up some contradicting information....or perhaps i just don't understand it all yet.
All help is appreciated.
Thanks!
Michele
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Hello Michele,
Forget the man made doctrines and stick with His Word, reading the articles on Bible Truths will help you to sort out the doctrines of men and clarify what scripture is really saying. It is a day by day process.
Don't try debating or arguing your beliefs, just treat your family, friends and even strangers in a brotherly, charitable way as you continue studying, when someone asks you a question, give them an honest answer, relax, take up His yoke.
Being lost is having your salvation after the White Throne Judgement rather than before it, Ray covers this in many of his articles, this is a good place to start;
The 2 Judgements By Fire
http://bible-truths.com/lake6.html
His Peace and Wisdom to you Sister,
Joe
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Hi Michele,
This is my opinion on this subject.
2Co 6:13 Do us a favor-I ask you as my children-and open wide your hearts.
v.14 Stop becoming unevenly yoked with unbelievers. What partnership can righteousness have with lawlessness? What fellowship can light have with darkness? (ISV)
Paul is talking to these believers as a father talking to his children.
What he is trying to say, I believe, is that a person who is a believer, is following a certain path.
They are seeking Christ and living there life that way.
Unbelievers are on a different path, they do not know Christ and are not seeking Him.
This is a small excerpt from Ray's LoF series no. 4, there is much more about this at the bottom of that article.
http://bible-truths.com/lake4.html -------------------------------------
The spring harvest (this is those in the first resurrection) is the harvest of those firstfruits who have entered into the strait and narrow gate. The fall harvest (this is all of humanity, that were not in the first resurrection, that come up at the great white throne judgment) is the harvest of all those who went the wide and broad way into destruction. Destruction is not the final destiny of the nonbeliever. Being DESTROYED, PERISHED, and LOST are all conditions awaiting SALVATION, and are not conditions to be eternally punished! All, absolutely ALL, who are not in the first resurrection are in a condition likened to: "lost," "perished," or "destroyed." Contrary to orthodoxy these conditions are NOT hopeless:
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If we are yolked (joined) with unbelievers, whether in marriage, friendship, or business,
anything that would join us to someone.
In that unequally yolked relationship, we would be going in different directions, to some degree,
and this would cause problems.
When you are in a close relationship with someone, who does not agree with you on the basic ideas of belief,
there are going to be many things that come up that you will disagree on, and that is not a good situation to be in.
If you are yolked to this person, partially in marriage, it is not easy to leave that relationship,
if things become worse.
Now I realize that everybodies situation is different, and there is no easy answer to this.
Everybodies situation would have to be considered separately and what value there is to it.
What I would say to you, is seek the truth, which you are doing here, and let God guide you in what He wants for you in your life.
Study and pray, and do the best you can, that's all you can do.
Pro 20:24 Man's steps are of Jehovah; how can a man then understand his own way?
1Co 12:6 And there are differences of workings, but it is the same God working all things in all.
Eph 1:11 in whom also we were made a heritage, having been foreordained according to the purpose of Him who worketh all things after the counsel of His will;
As for all your concerns, you are being overwhemed with it all.
Let God lead you into His truth as He chooses to reveal things, you are in the right place here :)
Phi 4:6 Never worry about anything, but in every situation let your petitions be made known to God in prayers and requests, with thanksgiving.
I hope this will help you some, I am in an unequally yolked marriage.
We were both raised in church, as an adult I continued in church, my husband never did.
I was never able to discuss religion with him, which was a big part of my life.
There have been many problems, but I have learned many valuable lessons.
You have to come to the place where you know God is in control, and all things are by Him.
Rom 8:28 And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose.
mercy, peace, and love
Kat
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Hi there all,
I may be wrong but aren't our lives directed by God? St. Paul tells us to do lots of things but if God has an intention for our life, aren't we going to walk in it? Can we do anything that God hasn't already purposed for our life? I thought that there is no such thing as free will. Ray has a brilliant article on this subject.
To know that God has purposed our lifes for a reason must be a comfort to all.
God bless
Nancy
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Hi there all,
I may be wrong but aren't our lives directed by God? St. Paul tells us to do lots of things but if God has an intention for our life, aren't we going to walk in it? Can we do anything that God hasn't already purposed for our life? I thought that there is no such thing as free will. Ray has a brilliant article on this subject.
To know that God has purposed our lifes for a reason must be a comfort to all.
God bless
Nancy
So true Nancy,
Here is an excerpt from;
http://bible-truths.com/lake15.html
IT ALL STARTS WITH THE HEART
ALL have sinned because it takes SPIRITUAL POWER not to sin. And God did not give our first parents that kind of spiritual power. They were spiritually weak as water.
We read in Jer. 17:9:
"The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?"
We know from Scripture that God "…creates EVIL…" (Isa. 45:7), but did He also create man’s heart in a "desperately wicked" state? No, He did not. God did not FORCE upon man, at creation, a "desperately WICKED" heart. Let’s read this verse from the Jewish Publication Society,
"The heart is deceitful above all things, And it is EXCEEDING WEAK—who can know it."
God did not create man’s heart "desperately wicked" as the KJV suggest, but rather He did create the human heart, "exceeding WEAK."
The seat of emotions and desires is the HEART. And God made the heart "exceeding WEAK." Man did not sin because he "freely willed" to sin, but because his heart was so exceedingly WEAK. That is why it takes next to nothing to persuade the heart of man to DESIRE SIN.
Jesus Christ Himself taught us that EVIL THOUGHTS, MURDERS, BLASPHEMIES, ADULTERIES, etc., all start, begin, originate, proceed, out from THE HEART.
Once the heart senses a feeling or emotion, it begins to desire something. These very thoughts of desire emanate out from the heart, seeking fulfillment. At this point in the process the will is manifested. It now becomes the driving force within you to accomplish the thoughts and emotions of the heart. The will is not the original instigator in this chain of events; it is not even the second in line, but rather the third.
The will of man has no power until first his heart DESIRES,
Second these desires are formed into actual THOUGHTS,
Then at this third stage the will purposes to find fulfillment for all that is coming out of the heart.
The heart played a huge role in Adam’s decision to also partake of the forbidden fruit. In I Tim. 2:14 we read this:
"And Adam was NOT deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression."
Why did Adam sin if he was NOT deceived as his wife was? Again, the answer goes back to THE HEART.
Adam LOVED his wife dearly. He never wanted to be separated from her. But he knew that the wages of eating the forbidden tree was to be death. But did he fully comprehend all that death entailed? Probably not. But whatever the penalty would be or how it would be carried out, Adam knew that he did not want to be separated from his wife. Notice what He said to God:
"And the man said, The woman whom you gave to be WITH ME, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat." (Gen. 3:12).
Isn’t that interesting. Adam did not say: "The woman whom you gave TO ME." Or, "The woman whom you gave FOR ME." But rather, "The woman whom you gave to be WITH ME." Adam reminded God that He created Eve to be ‘WITH’ him, not apart from him. And if Adam had obeyed God, whereas his wife did not, he feared being SEPARATED from Eve. And so he also ate of the fruit and sinned, not because he was deceived as Eve was, but because he loved her in his heart so much that he couldn’t bear the thought of not being "WITH" her.
And so, did Adam "freely" WITHOUT A CAUSE choose to eat the forbidden fruit? What nonsense. Adam had the BIGGEST REASON in the world that CAUSED him to sin and remain with his wife!
So if you are looking for "free" will in the Garden at the time of our first parents' creation, forget it, 'cause it ain’t there!
Nancy, yes is the short answer, it is our desire from the heart to sin that makes us guilty. When we begin to truly despise our carnal nature rather than embrace it, it is then that His work in us begins to bear fruit.
His Peace and Wisdom to you,
Joe
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....after reading this tread I thought that too often we place the emphasis on US and THEM ie friends, enemies, family ties and commitments rather than us and Christ in HIS yolk. What I began to see is this. On the one hand 2 John 1:9 ANYONE who runs on ahead of God and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ who is not content with what He taught, does not have God"......WELL! so much for running on ahead! :D....Then on the other hand....what about staying behind ;D...Matt 24:24 He who had received one talent also came forward saying Master, I knew you to be a harsh and hard man, reaping where you did not sow, and gathering where you had not winnowed the grain. So I was afraid, and I went and hid your talent, in the ground. Here you have what is your own.......We know what happened to him! :-[
The above two scriptures for me show two extreems and the bulls eye for me (and I might be playing Archery or simply darts here!)
but anyway, here it goes......Bulls eye for me is this....John 15: 9,10....abide in MY love....and live on it... and Mtt 11 :29....take MY yolk upon you and LEARN...OF ME.....
Are we (me included) giving too much emphasis on OUR yolks with humankind and perhaps insufficient attention to our yolk with Christ......?
I have recognised that this error has been concealed within me and now made visible through this thread.....
May His Mercy and Grace be to us all!
Arcturus :)
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Amen Arcturus. I was just thinking along the same lines. Being 'unequally yoked' is a hard thing to go through. When oxen were yoked side by side, they should be the same, but if one is shorter, it makes it difficult for the other to pull. It is difficult when one finds themselves in this situation, but as my signature says, If you don't know what to do, do what you know to do. Michele, all you have to do is focus on your relationship with Christ. Be submissive and obedient to your husband. Love him as Christ loves him. You know the saying, 'I would rather SEE a sermon, then hear one any day.' Show Christ to your husband by how you live your life.
1Co 7:14 For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy.
This works for your children as well. Your husband is in the place God wants him right now, but what about you? Perhaps God is teaching you something too? I have a wife who believes in Christ but is carnal. I am persecuted almost daily for my beliefs, so I just try to be the best husband I can be. Don't try to push, just live a life that will show him Christ.
Your Brother,
Brian
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Beautiful words Brian....they speak to me too!
Thank you
:)
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I really appreciate everyones answers, I have only found comfort here so far and I hope I continue to learn God's Truth.
I have a lot of rants I hope you can help me with...years of anxiety, frustration, and fear to put in it's proper place.
I need help still though. My husband is completely into Carl Sagan and his Cosmos series, Ayn Rand and some guy named Gould who basically says that Jesus was maybe delusional in thinking that he was the son of God and how all of his prophesies didn't come true...... Each and everyone of these authors stands by the concept of "You are Your own and owe noone anything, you happened by chance/evolution, you are your own God) , whatever...and no need for any "Creator"...and people that believe in "God" are those who have no ability to direct their own lives and can't cope with the thought of not having an afterlife and on and on and on.....Is anyone here familiar
OH I am SO CONFUSED!
. When my husband who also loves my daughter very much sits down to share carl sagans "Cosmos" series with her.....and how we all popped up out of a quagmire of chemicals, just add water, no God needed, what am I to do? I feel sick to my stomach and flushed like I"m going to die on the spot because I have nothing that I can say to refute that... except when I told my daughter later that I had no problem with those dvds because I don't know how God created everything and I have no problem really with evolution or not evolution as long as God is given the credit for it all..except God was apparently Not involved in any way and I DO have a big problem with that. ANd I asked my husband (and it took all my courage to do so) I asked him if sagan was an atheist and he replied "Oh yes" in a definate positive as if anything otherwise was unspeakably ridiculous....and I said "I think he's a very smart, nice man and I won't hold his being an athiest against him if he won't hold me Not being an athiest against me". Feels stupid now but it's like I have a terror of anyone thinking that I don't believe in God....and I don't know WHY exactly? Why do I care what Anyone thinks?
It's because I've been lectured/read somewhere in the Bible that it's MY JOB to tell others about God and to speak up when they say god doesn't exist?
Dear Michele, the ones that are delusional are Carl Sagan and Steven j. Gould. The religion & hypothesis of evolution is nothing but smoke and mirrors! Gould and Sagan CANNOT empirically (by experiment/observation) show that evolution has ever occured, they have not a clue!
Secular scientists CANNOT create life from dead matter, they've tried and they cannot do it! To top it off, they are using their intelligence in a controlled environment to try and create life ...WRONG! Life needs to come about by itself by pure random chance from DEAD matter. Furthermore, no one was present at the beginning of "evolutionary life", so they have NO IDEA what earth's environment was, so how can scientists ever recreate the situation? They can't!
Furthermore, they have not one scrap of empirical scientific evidence that shows ALL life desended from a common primordial cell, they CANNOT scientifically show it!
There is NO empirical scientific evidence that life descended from a common cell, and that life spontaneously came about from dead matter.
Evolution NEVER happened. In fact, random genetic mutations and natural selection go AGAINST evolution!
We most certainly did NOT come from a primordial pond of slime!!! NO child should be exposed to the soul destroying religion of evolution. Evolution justifies atheism, it is their RELIGION.
Atheists are REQUIRED by default to BELIEVE in the story of evolution.
Feel free to email me at andrevan808@yahoo.com and I will point you to some excellent articles that will completely destroy the ridiculous STORY of evolution.
God bless you!
Andrevan.
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I am truly amazed at the use of scripture and forgetting the rules of grammar. When I was in grammar school, the idea in language was kinda like algebra, if you put two negatives together they make a positive. in the king james version the scripture starts Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers the not and unequally in this sentence is negative which make it a positive which allows the scripture to read Be ye equally yoked together with unbelievers cause I knda think that this is what Jesus did when he came down here. He got equal with a bunch of unbelievers, If I am wrong please correct me thanks
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Here is the part I see..................
2 Tim 4:3 For the time is coming when people will not tolerate, endure sound and wholesome instruction, but, having ears itching for something pleasing and gratifying, they will gather to themselves one teacher (ONE YOLK) after another to a considerable number, chosen to satisfy their own liking and to foster the errors (YOLKS) they hold. 4. And will turn aside from hearing the truth and wander off into myths (OTHER YOLKS) and man-made fictions (SOME MORE YOLKS). As for you, be calm and cool and steady, accept and suffer unflinghingly.......
The true yolk is Christ. .......The yolks of bondage and blindness is mamon, the world, the carnal, the flesh, the Beast!
I believe we are all yolked unequally with Christ. Who is equal with Jesus Christ? Who has equality with the Spirit of God that is Christ? Christ is the believer. He is faithful. We are still learning, being tried, tested, purified. Christ IS NOW, WAS THEN AND FOREVER WILL BE the righteousness of God. This same Christ is dwelling in us, through unmerited favor, unequalled blessing and incomparable goodness of God towards us.
It is God who loves us. It is God who sent Christ to us. It is God who loves us as He loves Christ. John 17:21..I in them and You in Me, in order that they may become one and perfectly united, that the world may know and definitely recognize that You sent Me and that YOU HAVE LOVED THEM (US!) AS YOU HAVE LOVED ME(CHRIST) It is God who calls and chooses us and drags us to His Son Christ. It is Christ's work in us that He will complete only when He comes again to complete in us the salvation He has won and works in us. Heb 9:28 Even so it is that Christ, having been offered to take upon HIMSELF and bear as a burden the sins of many once and once for all, will appear a second time, not to carry any burden of sin nor to deal with sin, but to bring to FULL SALVATION those who are eagerly, constantly, and patiently waiting for and expecting Him."
We are all unequally yolked to Christ. Who is Christ among us? It is us who will be perfected in the end when He makes right what is wrong, He will make dark into light, unblief into belief, unfaithfulness into faithfulness, the unjust will be made just and the unrighteousness will be made righteous and every knee will bow. We are united in mind here in this Forum, that ALL will be saved and NON lost and that God's WILL, will be done.
We will be like Him but not AS HIM. He will make our diversity unitiy. He is yesterday, today and tomorrow the first fruites. There will always be inequality with that and God makes it equal by sharing with us His inheritance AFTER His Son perfects His image in us that is given to us through the Spirit of God that is Christ through the love of God that drags us, chooses, us selects us and calls us to Christ. Christ works HIS image in us. All things are created for Christ.
OUR oneness between one another is unified through Love. God is Love. The work is Christ. the Spirit of God at work in us. He, Christ is our yolk.He Christ is unequally yolked to us. This, as I see it, will be made equal when He comes again and every yolk is destroyed. This yolk that is Christ is our hope for salvation now. False yolks of bondage will be destroyed. Of course Christ our yolk will not be destroyed. HE will be lifted up as on the cross on earth He was lifted up, so too shall we see Him lifted up in His Glory when He comes and we will see Him face to face and behold His glory.This experience is something to really anticipate, expect and get excited about seeing and witnessing. We are invited to this grand entry of Christ when He comes for us.....1 Cor 13:12...but then, when perfection comes we shall see in relaity and face to face!......."
What an amaizing thing to look ahead towards. .... His is the light. His is the Glory. He is the yolk placed on us through the love of God for us working in us now. Everything else is...mamon, of the world, carnal, of the flesh, the Beast......unequal, irreconcilable.....unequally yolked!
We do not come to Christ. He call us and God drags us. His yolk is light and easy for He is meek and humble and we are unequal, but blessed,........ being purified unto hope and salvation...and under His yolk, we are being made free, like He is, through His gift to us...being transformed into eagerly, constantly, patiently and expectantly waiting for HIM!....as we learn to live under His yolk, His call, His love and His blessing towards us :).......This is the part I see....in part
Peace to you
Arcturus
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THank you All for your thoughtful replies.
So what scripture says to do in this situation IS:
*Keep on worshiping and learning about God no matter what anyone says or thinks...this is a good example.
*Don't worry about your child's or anyone else's salvation cause it's God who chooses You and Not the other way around, therefore non of us who are seeking God could ever "Bring" someone to God unless God has already Chosen them to become a believer. This fact should render "worry" for those of us her were taught that it's our job and responcibility to "win" souls for God and "Save" people from "eternal hellfire damnation"...Should render the worry Nonexistant! Should!
*Be like Jesus, loving, forgiving, kind, nonhypocritical, Non judgemental....
*Do Not worry what others think about you, continue loving God even if your criticized.
*You do not have to shove God down anyones throat and you don't have to discuss God with them unless they ask, then try to give a good anwer?
When I get terrified for my non believing loved ones, and worry about what my child will believe, I try to keep telling myself what the scriptures truly say (what i am now re-learning they truly say anyway) That God's in control. Even if everyone you love decides to be athiest, it's because God hasn't called them yet? Yes? And you just keep on loving them and worshipping your heart out.
When I get lost in my old thoughts and the old bad things the "church"taught me about eternal damnation/torture, etc......I keep saying to myself that that's NOT what the Bible says, never did say that and just knowing THAT one thing helps me more than anything else to quit the worry and fear..............Now if only I could retrain my mind to KNOW this. When I feel any fear I know it's because I still have not yet let go of the old False teachings that all Fundamental Christians are brought up to believe.
How can I KNOW that "HEllfire" is BULL!? Can I convince myself? Can you convince Me? I want nothing more than to believe that. If I can LEARN that down to every fiber of my being, then I can say truthfully that if "worst comes to worst" that there is NOOO Eternal Torment awaiting ANYone I love, NO MATTER what they do, say or believe in this lifetime.......................
I appreciate any help in this matter! I need the name of the Bible and the other book where it shows how "Hell" is mistranslated/misinterpreted or whatever and only means "Grave/Death"....I think if i could see it with my own eyes it'd help it sink in for me. Can somebody help me out with knowing what to buy?
After I get that ALL Important Fact through my head once and for all, maybe I could contine my research on how to be a better person/true christian and do the research on how to help others on their own journeys with God.
To answer the person here who said they have articles that disprove evolution etc.....please post them here if you don't mind.
PERsonally, I do not have a problem with evolution. WE do NOt know how God Created the world do we? Science and everything that gets discovered Should lead us closer to the "Mind of God". My problem with science as is stands today is how people try to use it to "disprove" God....that is certainly something that cannot be done anyway, but they try! That's my problem with evolutionists who try to say we popped up spontaneously from slime....I have no problem if we did occur that way, it's just that they try to say that it "just happened" and had nothing to do with a "Creator". And then I think "so where did the atoms and minerals and etc....come from that the first life was supposedly formed from" and They say "The Big Bang" and I say "What Made the Big Bang Occur" and They say "nobody knows for certain' and I say "God" and they say "So who created God" !!!!
I dont know if i want to spend my life debating with people who are Looking for reasons not to believe, because God hasn't called them yet? Seems like a time/life waster doesn't it? But if God wants me to gather as much "evidence" of Him as possible to help others on their way to Him..then I want to do that.
The problem is most of the time I don't know what exactly to do.
I know I am so very Tired of worrying about everyone I love's "Salvation" and I am ready to try to learn to let God handle it for me. But I'm thinking I have to learn how to do this also....which is why I"m here....
So if you can offer me helpful advice, point me to scriptures, proofs, anything, I so appreciate it!
Thanks!
Michele
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How can I KNOW that "HEllfire" is BULL!? Can I convince myself? Can you convince Me? I want nothing more than to believe that. If I can LEARN that down to every fiber of my being, then I can say truthfully that if "worst comes to worst" that there is NOOO Eternal Torment awaiting ANYone I love, NO MATTER what they do, say or believe in this lifetime.......................
I appreciate any help in this matter! I need the name of the Bible and the other book where it shows how "Hell" is mistranslated/misinterpreted or whatever and only means "Grave/Death"....I think if i could see it with my own eyes it'd help it sink in for me. Can somebody help me out with knowing what to buy?
Hello Michele,
Have you studied these articles yet?
http://bible-truths.com/lake16-A.html
http://bible-truths.com/lake16-B.html
http://bible-truths.com/lake16-C.html
There is a wealth of scriptural authority contained within these papers.
Mat 11:29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
Study and pray for understanding, don't stress about things that are in His hands, He is more than capable.
His Peace and Wisdom to you Sister,
Joe
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Arcturus
I really loved what you guys are writing in this thread.. It is really wonderful but I tried to point out My faux pas in the above post. I am the one who started this post and inadvertently named it (Unequally Yolked) It should be Unequally Yoked. (the center part of the egg is not the topic)
2 Tim 4:3 For the time is coming when people will not tolerate, endure sound and wholesome instruction, but, having ears itching for something pleasing and gratifying, they will gather to themselves one teacher (ONE YOLK) after another to a considerable number, chosen to satisfy their own liking and to foster the errors (YOLKS) they hold. 4. And will turn aside from hearing the truth and wander off into myths (OTHER YOLKS) and man-made fictions SOME MORE YOLKS
As for you, be calm and cool and steady, accept and suffer unflinghingly.......The true yolks Christ. .......The yolks of bondage and blindness is mamon, the world, the carnal, the flesh, the Beast!
I believe we are all yolked unequally with Christ. Who is equal with Jesus Christ? Who has equality with the Spirit of God that is Christ? Christ is the believer. He is faithful. We are still learning, being tried, tested, purified. Christ IS NOW, WAS THEN AND FOREVER WILL BE the righteousness of God. This same Christ is dwelling in us, through unmerited favor, unequalled blessing and incomparable goodness of God towards us.
What you said Arturus was very nteresting and as you said when the believer has Chrst in them then the unbelivers are in the unequal position ....at least for this age.
I know many readers have overlooked this mis-spelling of this word. I really apologise again and hope that all of you out there can take this Yolk (Joke)...I know another stupid pun. We are all...still ...marred vessels and some of us have more cracks and dings.
Beloved
(http://www.clicksmilies.com/s0105/natur/nature-smiley-016.gif)
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(Isa 58:1) Call out with the throat! Do not spare. Lift up your voice like the ram's horn! And declare to My people their rebellion, and their sins to the house of Jacob.
(Isa 58:2) Yet they seek Me day by day, and desire knowledge of My ways. As a nation that has done right, and not forsaking the judgment of their God, they ask Me about judgments of righteousness; they desire to draw near to God.
(Isa 58:3) They say, Why have we fasted, and You did not see? We have afflicted our soul, and You did not acknowledge. Behold, on the day of your fast you find pleasure; and you drive all your laborers hard.
(Isa 58:4) Look! You fast for strife, and for debate, and to strike with the fist of wickedness. Do not fast as today, to sound your voice in the high place.
(Isa 58:5) Is this like the fast I will choose, a day for a man to afflict his soul? To bow his head down like a bulrush, and he spreads sackcloth and ashes? Will you call to this as a fast and a day of delight to Jehovah?
(Isa 58:6) Is this not the fast I have chosen: to open bands of wickedness, to undo thongs of the yoke, and to send out the oppressed ones free; even that you pull off every yoke?
(Isa 58:7) Is it not to break your bread to the hungry, that you should bring the wandering poor home? When will you see the naked and cover him, and you will not hide yourself from your flesh?
(Isa 58:8) Then your light shall break as the dawn, and your healing shall spring up quickly; and your righteousness shall go before you; the glory of Jehovah shall gather you.
(Isa 58:9) Then you shall call, and Jehovah will answer; you shall cry, and He shall say, Here I am. If you put the yoke away from among you, the sending out of the finger, and the speaking of iniquity;
(Isa 58:10) and if you let out your soul to the hungry, and satisfy the afflicted soul; then your light shall rise in the darkness, and your gloom shall be as the noonday.
(Isa 58:11) And Jehovah shall always guide you, and satisfy your soul in dry places, and make strong your bones. And you shall be like a watered garden, and like a spring of water whose waters do not fail.
(Isa 58:12) And those who come of you shall build the old ruins; you shall rear the foundations of many generations; and you shall be called, The repairer of the breach, the restorer of paths to live in.
(Isa 58:13) If you turn your foot away because of the sabbath, from doing what you please on My holy days, and call the sabbath a delight, to the holiness of Jehovah, glorified; and shall glorify Him, to the holiness of not doing your own ways, from finding your own pleasure or speaking your word;
(Isa 58:14) then you shall delight yourself in Jehovah. And I will cause you to ride on the heights of the earth, and make you eat with the inheritance of your father Jacob. For the mouth of Jehovah has spoken.
His yoke, His sabbath, His rest.
(Heb 4:1) Therefore, let us fear lest perhaps a promise having been left to enter into His rest, that any of you may seem to come short.
(Heb 4:2) For, indeed, we have had the gospel preached to us, even as they also; but the Word did not profit those hearing it, not having been mixed with faith in the ones who heard.
(Heb 4:3) For we, the ones believing, enter into the rest, even as He said, "As I swore in My wrath, they shall not enter into My rest," though the works had come into being from the foundation of the world. LXX-Psa. 94:11; MT-Psa. 95:11
(Heb 4:4) For He has spoken somewhere about the seventh day this way, "And God rested from all His works in the seventh day." Gen. 2:2
(Heb 4:5) And in this again, "They shall not enter into My rest." MT-Psalm 95:11
(Heb 4:6) Therefore, since it remains for some to enter into it, and those who formerly had the gospel preached did not enter in on account of disobedience,
(Heb 4:7) He again marks out a certain day, saying in David, Today (after so long a time, according as He has said), "Today, if you hear His voice, do not harden your hearts." MT-Psalm 95:7, 8
(Heb 4:8) For if Joshua gave them rest, then He would not have afterwards spoken about another day.
(Heb 4:9) So, then, there remains a sabbath rest to the people of God.
(Heb 4:10) For he entering into His rest, he himself also rested from his works, as God had rested from His own. LXX-Psa. 95:11; Gen. 2:2
(Heb 4:11) Therefore, let us exert ourselves to enter into that rest, that not anyone fall in the same example of disobedience.
Example of disobedience and workers of lawlessness:
(Mat 7:23) And then I will declare to them, I never knew you; "depart from Me, those working lawlessness!" Psa. 6:8
(Mat 23:28) So you also indeed outwardly appear righteous to men, but within are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness.
(2Th 2:7) For the mystery of lawlessness already is working, only he is holding back now, until it comes out of the midst.
(1Jo 3:4) Everyone practicing sin also practices lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness.
Notice in all these verses, its by their own works they practice lawlessness. Entering His rest is being obedient, following Christ, and considered holy by not doing our own ways, our own pleasure or by speaking our own words.
(Joh 5:30) I am able to do nothing from Myself; just as I hear, I judge; and My judgment is just, for I do not seek My will, but the will of the One sending Me, the Father.
The perfect example of entering His rest.
God bless,
Gary
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Hello Beloved
Your post reads.....you said when the believer has Chrst in them then the unbelivers are in the unequal position ....at least for this age.
That is not actually what I meant. This is what I said: We are all unequally yolked to Christ. I should have written as follows....We believers are all unequally yoked to Christ. We are not equal to Christ. As I understand this...a yoke is a form of harness that connects two animals together like two horses to pull a carriage or two cows to pull a plough. As I understand this, we are the one side of the yoke and Jesus puts himself into the other side to guide lead and direct us. This belief may be incorrect. It is for now how I see this only. With Jesus next to us in this yoke that is His, we are guided and directed by His presence beside us. His yoke is easy and light. He is not equal to us. We are not equal to Him. He interceeds for us by coming up next to us and putting His yoke upon us. Unbelievers are not yoked to Christ at all! The yoke they are under are as is presented via Gary in Gods word ....(Isa 58:6) Is this not the fast I have chosen: to open bands of wickedness, to undo thongs of the yoke, and to send out the oppressed ones free; even that you pull off every yoke?
I like what Gary brings forward for us to contemplate regarding the yoke of Christ....
His yoke, His sabbath, His rest.
(Heb 4:1) Therefore, let us fear lest perhaps a promise having been left to enter into His rest, that any of you may seem to come short.
(Heb 4:2) For, indeed, we have had the gospel preached to us, even as they also; but the Word did not profit those hearing it, not having been mixed with faith in the ones who heard.
(Heb 4:3) For we, the ones believing, enter into the rest, even as He said, "As I swore in My wrath, they shall not enter into My rest," though the works had come into being from the foundation of the world. LXX-Psa. 94:11; MT-Psa. 95:11
(Heb 4:4) For He has spoken somewhere about the seventh day this way, "And God rested from all His works in the seventh day." Gen. 2:2
(Heb 4:5) And in this again, "They shall not enter into My rest." MT-Psalm 95:11
(Heb 4:6) Therefore, since it remains for some to enter into it, and those who formerly had the gospel preached did not enter in on account of disobedience,
(Heb 4:7) He again marks out a certain day, saying in David, Today (after so long a time, according as He has said), "Today, if you hear His voice, do not harden your hearts." MT-Psalm 95:7, 8
(Heb 4: For if Joshua gave them rest, then He would not have afterwards spoken about another day.
(Heb 4:9) So, then, there remains a sabbath rest to the people of God.
(Heb 4:10) For he entering into His rest, he himself also rested from his works, as God had rested from His own. LXX-Psa. 95:11; Gen. 2:2
(Heb 4:11) Therefore, let us exert ourselves to enter into that rest, that not anyone fall in the same example of disobedience.
Is it the yoke of Christ that connects us believers all together with He as our head and we as His body?
Peace to you all
Arcturus.... :)
P S.... I love when these kind of things happen because they show me my family :D
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Hi Beloved
I appreciate the effort.......I too spend much time pondering, contemplating and I agree, it can be trecherous to write and convey what we mean through written communication :D...I believe that is our opportunity however to hone our sight and understanding to be more concise and focused ......as difficult as it is :D
I too am not arguing or debating or trying to convince. I only give what I see and share as I see it.
I have no problem with what you have communicated and agree fully with how you see things. All I was expressing and sharing was the view that the believer too, is unequally yoked with Christ with the accent on Christ being perfect and the believer being called to perfection. "Be thou Holy as I am holy.".....is a call not a conclusion yet....I know we could find scriptures to say the opposite here. I listed several in another post....eg you are the light....you are a holy priesthood etc....
As I was exsperiencing the thoughts throughthis thread I began to see that the end result is not yet for me. I have not completed the race set before me. So being holy as God is Holy.... is the race we run.....the prize we reach towards don't you think? To be as Christ, in his image who is our prize.
My perspective in this thread was to offer how I see it from what Christ is and not from where the believer is. In this, I prepose that the believer too is unequally yoked because we can not have equallity with Christ and neither should equality be something we grasp at.
I am not arguing at all here. I am not in any disagreement at all. I am in a different perspective comingfrom a different angle that is not in contradiction with the Scriptures....and I agree, the scriptures you present do show very clearly what the believer is. From where I stand they show even more clearly our inequality with the living Christ and this is not a bad thing for me. It inspires hope and gratitude that He gives us His yoke that is easy and light.
The will of God for me is...Be Holy.....am I holy?....I am on my way....not there yet.... Is Christ in me Holy. Yes. Therein the inequality. Is this unbelief? ???...I will have to think....pray....ask....search some more :-\
Peace to you
Arcturus
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THank you All for your thoughtful replies.
To answer the person here who said they have articles that disprove evolution etc.....please post them here if you don't mind.
PERsonally, I do not have a problem with evolution. WE do NOt know how God Created the world do we? Science and everything that gets discovered Should lead us closer to the "Mind of God". My problem with science as is stands today is how people try to use it to "disprove" God....that is certainly something that cannot be done anyway, but they try! That's my problem with evolutionists who try to say we popped up spontaneously from slime....I have no problem if we did occur that way, it's just that they try to say that it "just happened" and had nothing to do with a "Creator". And then I think "so where did the atoms and minerals and etc....come from that the first life was supposedly formed from" and They say "The Big Bang" and I say "What Made the Big Bang Occur" and They say "nobody knows for certain' and I say "God" and they say "So who created God" !!!!
Hi Michele
A belief that God used evolution to create life, is called theistic evolution (theist=belief in a god, a god). I do not recommend this approach in uniting the Creator Jesus to the story of evolution (everything made itself), as it has many contradictions, and is a compromise that isn’t necessary, because evolution (of all life from an primordial cell) has not occurred.
Some problems:
If we came from an ape like ancestor, what happens with “Let us be making man in our image”, at what point did we move from an animal to human? God said Adam was made from the dust of the ground, Eve was made from Adam's side.
Jesus said (speaking of marriage): “But at the beginning of creation God ‘made them male and female’”, Mark 10:6
“That the blood of all the prophets, which was shed from the foundation of the world, may be required of this generation;
From the blood of Abel unto the blood of Zacharias, which perished between the altar and the temple: verily I say unto you, It shall be required of this generation.” Luke 11:50-51. Adel was a son of Adam and Eve, his blood was shed at the foundation of the world (at the beginning). If humans arrived billions of years after the beginning (formation) of the world, what is Jesus talking about?
These are just a few issues, as you can imagine we’ll eventually run into theological problems, like the reasoning of Apostle Paul, with “as in Adam all die so in Christ…”, etc, etc.
We know how God created (through Jesus), it is recorded in Genesis 1, “And God SAID”. Every creature was created to reproduce after itself. This is contradicted by evolution that states everything diverged from an ancestral cell (one creature lead to another). Which one does empirical biology confirm? Well God’s creation of course :), creatures do only reproduce after themselves, even in bacteria that reproduce extremely quickly while undergoing huge amount of mutations. The bacteria always remains bacteria.
The reason why many Christians have a problem with the earth being “billions” of years old is that evolution requires MASSIVE amounts of deep time, because everything is supposed to happen by random chance and time. Destroy the deep time (billions of yrs) model, and you destroy the evolutionary hypothesis once and for all. This is the reason some scientists (on a shoe string budget) who are Christians are researching the various flaws in the earth dating methods, with promising results so far.
Science uses empirical evidence, evolution relies on circumstantial evidence, interpretation & philosophy. For example like the fossil record, sedimentary layers and paleontology. Evolution is not science, it is a BELIEF in our origins. This same circumstantial evidence is just as equally used to support God’s creation. For example, evolutionists claim the sedimentary layers were laid down over billions of years, while those believing in creation claim that most of those layers were laid down during the global flood of Noah’s day. All scientists know that sedimentary layers are formed by a water/chemical process. How we interpret this circumstantial evidence depends on our pre-beliefs (presuppositions) in our historical past. The same goes with fossils: one group claims they were formed over billions of years as creatures died and were buried, the other group claims that the creatures were buried rapidly (fossilized) in sediment during the global flood in Genesis.
As I touched on previously in this thread, no one has been able to create life from dead matter. All that was made were a few amino acids that were eventually destroyed anyway… whoops! No life there.
No one has been able to show a simple life form evolving into something higher and more complex by random mutations or any other method, the case with bacteria is a good example. What did the bacteria evolve into? Nothing, they remained bacteria… whoops again! When you hear of viruses evolving resistance to something this is nothing but smoke and mirrors, the bacteria actually adapted, but remained bacteria… always. The bacteria that did not have the genes to fight the invader eventually died out, therefore a loss of genetic code, the OPPOSITE of what evolution requires.
Sorry if this is too long, but I feel this is important in getting a basic understanding of this subject. After all God uses the “foolishness of preaching/teaching” to call the many.
“I do fully testify, then, before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who is about to judge living and dead at his manifestation and his reign--
preach the word; be earnest in season, out of season, convict, rebuke, exhort, in all long-suffering and teaching,
for there shall be a season when the sound teaching they will not suffer, but according to their own desires to themselves they shall heap up teachers--itching in the hearing,
and indeed, from the truth the hearing they shall turn away, and to the fables they shall be turned aside”. Timothy 4:1-4. This also goes for those who would prefer to hear that there is no God.
I dont know if i want to spend my life debating with people who are Looking for reasons not to believe, because God hasn't called them yet? Seems like a time/life waster doesn't it? But if God wants me to gather as much "evidence" of Him as possible to help others on their way to Him..then I want to do that.
The problem is most of the time I don't know what exactly to do.
We’ve all received different gifts from God; the Apostle Paul debated with the Jews in their synagogues and baffled them by his reasoning and debate. Not all of us have this gift of debating, but with a few key truths you can at least stand your ground if ever confronted.
“And all those hearing were amazed, and said, `Is not this he who laid waist in Jerusalem those calling on this name, and hither to this intent had come, that he might bring them bound to the chief priests?'
And Saul was still more strengthened, and he was confounding the Jews dwelling in Damascus, proving that this is the Christ.” Acts 9:21-22
“And he was with them, coming in and going out in Jerusalem,
and speaking boldly in the name of the Lord Jesus, he was both speaking and disputing [debating] with the Hellenists, and they were taking in hand to kill him,” Acts 9:28-29
God be with you and bless you as you pursue the truth.
Andrevan.
Origin of Life (the first living cell):
http://www.creationontheweb.com/content/view/3028/
Natural Selection:
http://www.creationontheweb.com/content/view/3035/
Speciation:
http://www.creationontheweb.com/content/view/3036/
Mutations:
http://www.creationontheweb.com/content/view/3026/
Genetics:
http://www.creationontheweb.com/content/view/3005/
Information Theory:
http://www.creationontheweb.com/content/view/3012/
Fossils:
http://www.creationontheweb.com/content/view/3001
Other Topics:
http://www.creationontheweb.com/content/view/21/65/
Another excellent website is the Institute for Creation Research:
http://www.icr.org
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Thanks I'll check out the links. I don't think anything that has to do with "creationism" will have any effect whatsoever on persons who are already adverse to the whole idea of God. Or otherwise known as non-believers.....which they are because God hasn't "dragged" them to him yet, Yes?
I am Still trying so very hard to let go of the thoughts that was pounded into me as a child about having to "save" others from hellfire. It's hard to stop the fear.
One side of my family that I married into is nearly all athiest and the other side of my blood family is traditional fundamental christian. One side believes that God/Bible and everything associated with it is a myth, the christian side believes that everyone but the few who "believe through faith" are going to burn in "hell" for eternity.
And in the midst of this all i have a daughter to raise.
I feel very scared and alone a lot. I'm trying very hard to wrap God's truth around me but it's hard letting go of the fear even though I want to with all my heart.
I thought if I keep researching and "gathering" information that I'll have some good info for my child as she grows up and I can say I truly did everything that I could to help her on her way to God.
I keep telling myself that it's God that does the choosing and if he doesn't call you and you are Not a believer then that is what God meant to happen and it's all under control. Thje christian side thinks everyone is doomed and that all of revelations is literal and that hell is a place of torture for eternity and everyone can Choose to be saved and if you do not Choose to be saved in this lifetime that youre doomed to eternal damnation in "fire" and you deserve it because you didn't Choose to have Faith and believe in God/Jesus.
I thought all this time that I was looking for THE Correct answers for all of my loved ones, but maybe I'm here as much for myself, to help drive out all of the Lies, or what I believe are the False teachings I"ve had drummed into my head that have caused me so much anguish...and still are yet.
In the meantime, what do you do with this type of thing?
http://www.vexen.co.uk/religion/lnx.html
I'm wanting to the information clear back to the earliest versions/most accurate versions of the bible translations. I want to have the book that you use to translate the old words into english. I want to see with my own eyes where the translators mistranslated the word sheol into a word that most "christians" have been taught means "hellfire"but really means death/grave. After that I want to try to tackle all the other things that I have no idea how to deal with now (Please see the above link).
I cannot answer all of those questions. How can you even answer the basic question of your own faith? Can't. You are going towards God because he's dragging you to him...that's not an answer that stands up well with non-believers who obviously have not been called...yet.
I'm still struggling up the mountain. I feel inadequate to the task but feel i must try in order to keep my own sanity.
Can I make a blatant statement and see what you think. After 30 something years of being told Otherwise, I'd like to see if a basic statement that I woke up thinking the other morning is full of God's truth and accurate:
God is dragging to him those who he wants to know him. We did Not have anything to do with this. We did not choose him he chose us then we felt the need to come to search for Him? Most of the people in this world are Not chosen and do not know him. God meant for there to be Believers and NON believers. Why? I cannot answer that one..to teach us all some lesson? To show how merciful he is at the judgement to the non-believers? Anyway, being a NON believer is Not the athiests or non-christians fault because this is part of God's plan. If your spouse, friend, or child is a non-believer, despite you doing your best to show them what you know of God, then that's the way God wants it to be, for now, and you do Not have to worry about their eternal fate because God will fix it for everyone.
Is that accurate?
I have a list of 64 questions that non-believers ask "Christians". I cannot answer them and I don't know if anyone has ever tried. The non-believers seem to use them to poke fun at believers, or perhaps they are perfectly legitimate questions. Can Anyone here answer them? If someone could help answer them we could post them here for those searching for answers.
What about Richard Dawkins and all those like him who has a new book out about (God being bogus)? Non believers love that stuff.
While we cannot deny anything that is scientific "proof" about Creation, and why would we, it's the way they catagorically state that God is a myth, an old creation myth that always gets my goat. Despite every doubt I've ever had I've never been able to figure out how alll the athiestic scientists (definately not all are) say that everything could happen without a creator. They can make these fantastical leaps to how the Big bang started it all and on and on...but where did matter come from? Atoms, protons, neutrons? All the basic elements. ANything physical that exists, how did it come to be? People are always on about "Nature" is wonderful, power of Nature. Well, where does Nature and the Universe get it's power from? IT's God. That's what I think. And then they always say Well then miss smarty pants, where did GOD come from? ANd that's the end of that discussion because "God was always here" just don't cut it in the nonbelieving human mind. It's funny or sad to me how the nonbelieving scientists are so confidant about God not existing cause "nature just happened to develop by chance all on it's own", yet despite all the technology we have today and all the knowledge about the human genome etc....man has never ever been able to create life from non-life. What about that?
Should we spend out lives only in pursuit of getting closer to God? Or how much time do you spend on trying to show others?
I"ve been told to be humble and only try to answer when someone asks something, otherwise just keep on keeping on for yourself. And then you have this:
I do fully testify, then, before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who is about to judge living and dead at his manifestation and his reign--
preach the word; be earnest in season, out of season, convict, rebuke, exhort, in all long-suffering and teaching,
for there shall be a season when the sound teaching they will not suffer, but according to their own desires to themselves they shall heap up teachers--itching in the hearing,
and indeed, from the truth the hearing they shall turn away, and to the fables they shall be turned aside”. Timothy 4:1-4. This also goes for those who would prefer to hear that there is no God.
I am Not knowledgeable enough about the Bible to tell anyone anything other than what I'm learning, except in my case nobody asks me because they think what I'm learning here is bologna, both sides of my family think that.
It all leaves me feeling extremely overwhelmed and completely uncertain what to do next.
I truly need a life plan, and a life plan that will help me live in as much peace and harmony as is possible being married to a nonbeliver, having a fundamental christian family on the other side, and worrying about my child all at the same time.
Can I just keep studying about the Truth of God and let everything else go? Can I find it inside my skeptical, fearsome self to just let God have it all and stop worrying? I"m terrified of doing or saying the wrong things.
HOW do you keep others from hurting you on this journey when you believe something so different to what they think?
How do you go on when you feel so alone and persecuted...even silent persecution hurts terribly.
What do you do when you tell your child one thing and your spouse another..how's it going to know what to follow and if they don't follow what you think is True, how do you stop liiving in fear?
Thanks for your help.
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Hello Michele
Your questions are beautiful. Some of them are rhetorical. Some of them have been echoed down the corridors of the ages finding their way into Ancient Greek philosophy, winding forwards and bursting into multiple religions that entertained a bias for one interpretation or another.
Jesus asked….”Who do you say I am?”….. I feel your anxiety. My own anxiety propelled me to leave my first love..... I was pushed by my own anxiety and pain to leave Jesus Christ in search of the Truth not knowing He is the Truth!
In this He etched for me His plan for my own painful experiences.........of which (as I perceive ) your sufferings now, bear some resemblance to what I experienced in my past. My Father was from Jewish lineage and my Mother was Catholic.
I feel some futility to call to your mind the words of Jesus “Peace…BE STILL”….because I know if Peace is not on the agenda within Gods timing for you, then it is not going to happen no matter what. Only Jesus can say, "Come" and only then we can anyone walk on water.
I know what it feels like to see Him NO WHERE in sight!....I can softly and sympathetically advise you to quietly and prayerfully read the teachings on Free Will. See the Home Page. As you read, stop at each place where you do not understand and wait….…..Write to us and ask one question at a time........There is Christ's Spirit of Wisdom, Council and Understanding here.......
Take your time….there is no need to rush….there is only need to wait,...ask.... and pray…………………………..Who do YOU say He is?... Only He can reveal Himself to you.....not the world, not the Ancient Greek Philosophers, not religion, not people, not one side of your family or the other, nothing you can do and no one but HE can reveal to you who HE is.....EVERYTHING we do is a consequence of HIM. Praying is a consequence of HIM....Understanding is a consequence of HIM, waiting is a consequence of HIM, Peace is a consequence of HIM....
Keep studying Michele…... 2 Cor 3 : 18 And all of us, as with unveiled face, because we continued to behold in the Word of God, as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are constantly being transfigured into His very own image in ever increasing splendour and from ONE DEGREE of glory to another, for this comes from the Lord Who is the Spirit…
I believe, I percieve, He is moving you from one degree to another in His transfomation of you into His image and likeness and He is ..."not unable to understand and sympathize and have a shared feeling with our weaknesses and infirmities and liability to the assaults of temptation....." Heb 4 : 15 He is our High Priest....
Peace to you
Arcturus :)
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Hi Michele, your post reminds me in certain ways of how I was some years ago, I can understand where you're coming from. i'll try to answer most of your points raised, as i'm still learning myself, forgive me if I make some mistakes, my forum friends please correct me if i'm out of line ;D
Thanks I'll check out the links. I don't think anything that has to do with "creationism" will have any effect whatsoever on persons who are already adverse to the whole idea of God. Or otherwise known as non-believers.....which they are because God hasn't "dragged" them to him yet, Yes?
Here's the thing: we do not know who or when God is going to drag someone to Jesus Christ. We preach the message of reconciliation if prompted, and leave the rest to God's spirit to do His will in that person. Many atheists have been dragged to God through many different methods, this is the awesome thing I find about how God works. We should never underestimate what God can use, whether it's "creationism", preaching, TBN, Bible tracts or whatever. I used to be a "Sunday" Christian [unconverted/apathetic] for many years, because I used to believe in alien life and parts of evolution, until God placed a few people in my path. He completely destroyed the idols of my heart, I came out of confusion and intense fustration and into the Truth, but it took years.
I am Still trying so very hard to let go of the thoughts that was pounded into me as a child about having to "save" others from hellfire. It's hard to stop the fear.
One side of my family that I married into is nearly all athiest and the other side of my blood family is traditional fundamental christian. One side believes that God/Bible and everything associated with it is a myth, the christian side believes that everyone but the few who "believe through faith" are going to burn in "hell" for eternity.
And in the midst of this all i have a daughter to raise.
I feel very scared and alone a lot. I'm trying very hard to wrap God's truth around me but it's hard letting go of the fear even though I want to with all my heart.
Remember that all of us here on the forum are with you every step of the way in spirit and in pray, so stand firm in the Truth, God is working out His plan and intention, we have nothing to fear.
In the meantime, what do you do with this type of thing?
http://www.vexen.co.uk/religion/lnx.html
I wouldn't worry about this site, there are many theories & opinions out there in the world, however they count for nothing, as God's will is always done. If you have a gift for debunking that which stands against Jesus Christ, God will have put the will in you to do it. :)
I'm wanting to the information clear back to the earliest versions/most accurate versions of the bible translations. I want to have the book that you use to translate the old words into english. I want to see with my own eyes where the translators mistranslated the word sheol into a word that most "christians" have been taught means "hellfire"but really means death/grave. After that I want to try to tackle all the other things that I have no idea how to deal with now (Please see the above link).
My own advise to you would be to rest in God's plan, His will. We know that we can do nothing of ourselves, but it is God who inspires us by circumstances to do things. Come to a place of peace with your new found truths, when hell is no longer an issue, then take it from there one step at a time. :)
I cannot answer all of those questions. How can you even answer the basic question of your own faith? Can't. You are going towards God because he's dragging you to him...that's not an answer that stands up well with non-believers who obviously have not been called...yet.
Remember that God uses various methods to drag us to Him. Those God calls have in them a true desire for the truth, when they find the truth they accept it, they are the called. We know that Jesus IS the truth, there can only be one truth. Those who don't want the truth will look for things their "itching ears" want to hear, they are not the called, simple.
I'm still struggling up the mountain. I feel inadequate to the task but feel i must try in order to keep my own sanity.
Can I make a blatant statement and see what you think. After 30 something years of being told Otherwise, I'd like to see if a basic statement that I woke up thinking the other morning is full of God's truth and accurate:
God is dragging to him those who he wants to know him. We did Not have anything to do with this. We did not choose him he chose us then we felt the need to come to search for Him? Most of the people in this world are Not chosen and do not know him. God meant for there to be Believers and NON believers. Why? I cannot answer that one..to teach us all some lesson? To show how merciful he is at the judgement to the non-believers? Anyway, being a NON believer is Not the athiests or non-christians fault because this is part of God's plan. If your spouse, friend, or child is a non-believer, despite you doing your best to show them what you know of God, then that's the way God wants it to be, for now, and you do Not have to worry about their eternal fate because God will fix it for everyone.
Is that accurate?
Close enough for me. Ray's conference in Mobile covers almost all of your questions. The audio files of the conference can be found under the announcements category, if you have not already listened to them may I recommend you do, as it helped my wife and I a great deal. I've listened to the conference about 5 times now and every time more and more parts of the false doctrines of Christendom disappear.
i admire your perseverance, you can ony give it your best shot [even that's from God ;)], after this you can do no more, God's perfect will prevails, we leave it in His capable hands.
I have a list of 64 questions that non-believers ask "Christians". I cannot answer them and I don't know if anyone has ever tried. The non-believers seem to use them to poke fun at believers, or perhaps they are perfectly legitimate questions. Can Anyone here answer them? If someone could help answer them we could post them here for those searching for answers.
What about Richard Dawkins and all those like him who has a new book out about (God being bogus)? Non believers love that stuff.
Of course they love that stuff, Dawkins [and others] gives them what their itching ears want to hear! God however is in control not Dawkins or anyone else. I feel God is even using Dawkins [as well as others] to "sift" people.
While we cannot deny anything that is scientific "proof" about Creation, and why would we, it's the way they catagorically state that God is a myth, an old creation myth that always gets my goat. Despite every doubt I've ever had I've never been able to figure out how alll the athiestic scientists (definately not all are) say that everything could happen without a creator. They can make these fantastical leaps to how the Big bang started it all and on and on...but where did matter come from? Atoms, protons, neutrons? All the basic elements. ANything physical that exists, how did it come to be? People are always on about "Nature" is wonderful, power of Nature. Well, where does Nature and the Universe get it's power from? IT's God. That's what I think. And then they always say Well then miss smarty pants, where did GOD come from? ANd that's the end of that discussion because "God was always here" just don't cut it in the nonbelieving human mind. It's funny or sad to me how the nonbelieving scientists are so confidant about God not existing cause "nature just happened to develop by chance all on it's own", yet despite all the technology we have today and all the knowledge about the human genome etc....man has never ever been able to create life from non-life. What about that?
Many atheists are really not interested in the truth [they just pretend to be], if they were they would have rejected evolution long ago and become one of the called. In reality they care not for the truth [God has not given them the desire YET], again "itching ears". Evoluton justifies their atheism. They will only let it go if/when God calles them.
Should we spend out lives only in pursuit of getting closer to God? Or how much time do you spend on trying to show others?
I"ve been told to be humble and only try to answer when someone asks something, otherwise just keep on keeping on for yourself. And then you have this:
I do fully testify, then, before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who is about to judge living and dead at his manifestation and his reign--
preach the word; be earnest in season, out of season, convict, rebuke, exhort, in all long-suffering and teaching,
for there shall be a season when the sound teaching they will not suffer, but according to their own desires to themselves they shall heap up teachers--itching in the hearing,
and indeed, from the truth the hearing they shall turn away, and to the fables they shall be turned aside”. Timothy 4:1-4. This also goes for those who would prefer to hear that there is no God.
If God wants to use you to call someone to Jesus by preaching/teaching, He will bring the situation about. Not all of us are designated preachers or teachers, but we have this,
"Yet if you may be suffering also because of righteousness, happy are you. Now you may not be afraid with their fear, nor yet be disturbed, yet hallow the Lord Christ in your hearts, ever ready with a defense [answer] for everyone who is demanding from you an account concerning the expectation in you, but with meekness and fear," 1 Peter 3:14-15
If a person rejects your reason for the hope that's in you, well that's their problem, not yours :) God isn't calling them at that time. Just let them be, God will save them in the end because He loves every single one of us. None will be lost.
I am Not knowledgeable enough about the Bible to tell anyone anything other than what I'm learning, except in my case nobody asks me because they think what I'm learning here is bologna, both sides of my family think that.
It all leaves me feeling extremely overwhelmed and completely uncertain what to do next.
I truly need a life plan, and a life plan that will help me live in as much peace and harmony as is possible being married to a nonbeliver, having a fundamental christian family on the other side, and worrying about my child all at the same time.
Can I just keep studying about the Truth of God and let everything else go? Can I find it inside my skeptical, fearsome self to just let God have it all and stop worrying? I"m terrified of doing or saying the wrong things.
HOW do you keep others from hurting you on this journey when you believe something so different to what they think?
How do you go on when you feel so alone and persecuted...even silent persecution hurts terribly.
What do you do when you tell your child one thing and your spouse another..how's it going to know what to follow and if they don't follow what you think is True, how do you stop liiving in fear?
Thanks for your help.
"James, a slave of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes in the dispersion. Rejoice!"
All joy deem it, my brethren, whenever you should be falling into various trials,
knowing that the testing of your faith is producing endurance.
Now let endurance have its perfect work, that you may be perfect and unimpaired, lacking in nothing."
Now if anyone of you is lacking wisdom, let him be requesting it from God, Who is giving to all generously and is not reproaching, and it shall be given to him."
James 1:1-5
and
"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, Who, according to His vast mercy, regenerates us into a living expectation, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from among the dead,
for the enjoyment of an allotment incorruptible and undefiled and unfading, kept in the heavens for you,
who are garrisoned by the power of God, through faith, for salvation ready to be revealed in the last era,
in which you are exulting; briefly at present, if it must be, being sorrowed by various trials,
that the testing of your faith, much more precious than gold which is perishing, yet, being tested by fire, may be found for applause and glory and honor at the unveiling of Jesus Christ"
1 Peter 1:3-7
God bless you,
Andrevan.
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Amen. Andrevan. AMEN! :D
Arcturus :)
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Thank you for all your wonderful responses. Yet I must say the greek and hebrew are limited in their interpretation of the word of God in that greek and hebrew are carnal languages and well our Heavenly father is Spirit. Praying one time I see how different people different denominations different ideas seeped themselves into the word of God.
so being in prayer I sought the Lord and asked him which ones are right and well hsis response is they are all wrong. When someone starts an interpretation of scripture with "I think" this is the down fall of our interpretation the word of God must not be interpreted
with what you or I think but rather with what God says. Than someone says well the original texts is Greek or hebrew. Intresting thing, when jesus was crucified in the book of luke 24:38 And a superscription also was written over him in letters of greek, latin, and hebrew, this is the King of the Jews. Funny how all those languages say the same thing.
well any how Ive got bad news for all our intense scholars and deep thinkers the original texts did not come from any of the languages of this earth for before it was written here it was said in heaven. So the pure translation comes through the spirit. So agree the scripture John 14:26 But the comforterwhich is the holy ghost whom the father will send in my name he shall teach you all things and bring all things to your rememberance whatsoever I have said unto you. In all my studies I have yet to find that the Holy Ghost is Greek or that the Spirit of God is hebrew and for all our wonderful skeptics out there we forgot that the scripture say the carnal mind is emnity against God and that the natural man recieveth not the things of God. so answer this question what race definition is water what era is oxygen started in? thanks
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I have gained more understanding from these posts than many others I have read on this forum site and others.
I completely empathise with Michelle's cry for answers. I have the same cry. Keep asking the questions.
Matt 7:7-8 "Keep on asking, and you will be given what you ask for. Keep on looking, and you will find. Keep on knocking, and the door will be opened. For everyone who asks, receives. Everyone who seeks, finds. And the door is opened to everyone who knocks. NLT :)
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Hello pstrevnglstchrls
This is a excerpt from the teaching on the TWELVE GOD-GIVEN TRUTHS TO UNDERSTAND HIS WORD on the home page.
"None of the wicked shall understand; but the Wise shall understand" (Daniel 12:10)
TRUTH NUMBER 5[A] "It is the spirit that quickens [gives life]; the flesh profits nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are SPIRIT, and they are life" (John 6:63). "But this spoke He of the SPIRIT…" (John 7:39).[C] "And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the SPIRIT which IS the word of God" ( Eph. 6:17).Everything from Genesis to Revelation pertains to a higher SPIRITUAL meaning than the physical examples, parables, metaphors, allegories, stories and symbols in which they are written. "Let us make man in Our Image" (Gen. 1:26) are words of SPIRIT: "…Surely I come quickly…" (Rev. 22:20) are words of SPIRIT. God does not look like a six-foot man or a five-foot woman. Jesus comes quickly to us, not to the world.John tells us that: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God… and the Word was MADE FLESH… grace and truth came by Jesus Christ" (John 1:1, 14 & 17). God is not "flesh." Jesus had to be "made flesh." And then AS flesh, Jesus had to "grow and wax strong" (Luke 2:40). God does not "grow or wax strong," but Jesus "made flesh" had to grow and wax strong. Jesus also had to "overcome" (John 16:33). God does not need to overcome anything. Jesus had to "suffer" and "learn obedience" (Heb. 5:8). God does not suffer: God does not learn anything, seeing that God is all knowing (Isa. 46:10).Jesus was "troubled in His soul" (John 12:27). God is never troubled in HIS soul. Jesus got "weary" (John 4 6). God never gets weary (Isa. 40:28). Jesus became "exceeding sorrowful" (Matt. 26:38). God never sorrows. Jesus was famished after fasting for 40 days and nights. He was so "hungry" that he was ready to die (Matt. 4:2). God never gets hungry. God can never die of hunger. Jesus got very "thirsty" (John 19:28). God never gets thirsty. Jesus "wept" (John 11:35). God never weeps. Jesus was acquainted with "sickness" (Isa. 53:3). God never gets sick.How sad that many Christians believe that nothing bad ever happened to Jesus before His crucifixion. If it were not for God IN Jesus, Jesus would have been as helpless as a newborn baby. In fact, Jesus said with all humility and truth: "I can of Mine Own Self do nothing…" (John 5:30).Jesus Christ is our Example of just how man (mankind) is to "be made into the Image of God." Jesus is our example, our way, and our destiny: "For whom He did foreknow, [that’s US, and eventually all humanity, I Cor. 15:28], He also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the Firstborn among many brethren" (Rom. 8:29).Jesus was made a physical man so that He could show us the way to the spirit God.And so it was that this Jesus, in the flesh, who became human, became a man of flesh, was conformed into the spiritual "Image of God," and spoke to us through His "words of spirit." It is Jesus Who "was the word of God" back in Genesis, Who did the speaking when "…God [the Word] said, Let there be light" (Gen. 1:3). It was "the word" in Genesis 1:26 Who said: "Make will We humanity in Our Image…" (Concordant Version). What kind of words were those words, which The Word spoke back there in the garden? Why they were the words of Jesus, and Jesus plainly tells us that His words "ARE SPIRIT" (John 6:63). "And creating is God humanity in His [spiritual] Image. In the Image of God He creates it. Male and female He [spiritually] creates them" Gen. 1:27). Why of course, that is why Paul teaches us that we are, "…to be conformed to the Image of His Son." Jesus now is in the very spiritual image of God, just as He was prior to being emptied into human flesh, in the form of a servant:"And now, O Father, GLORIFY You Me with Thine Own Self with the glory which I HAD WITH YOU BEFORE THE WORLD WAS" (John 17:5).If mankind is not in the literal, physical image of God, then what, pray tell, does God look like? "To whom then will you liken Me, or shall I be equal? Says the Holy One… I am the Lord, and there is none else, there is no God beside Me… I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace and create evil: I the Lord do all these things… I have made the earth, and created man upon it: I, even My hands, have stretched out the heavens, and all their host have I commanded… To whom will you like Me, and make Me equal, and compare Me, that we may be like?" (Isa. 40:25; 45:5, 7, 12; 46:5)"God is not a MAN…" (Num. 23:19), regardless of how many millions of theologians want to make God into the image of sinful man. God is not in our image: neither are we yet in His Image.Obviously the words that Jesus spoke were "spirit," seeing that His very words came from GOD, Who IS SPIRIT: "For He [Jesus] Whom God has sent speaks the WORDS OF God, for God gives not the SPIRIT by measure unto Him" (John 3:34).Did Jesus give His Apostles the power to speak words of SPIRIT? Yes, He did: "And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man’s wisdom, but in the demonstration of the SPIRIT and of power" (I Cor. 2:4)."The spirit of the Lord spoke by me, and His word was in my tongue" (II Sam. 23:2). "According to the word that I did covenant with you when ye came out of Egypt, so My spirit remains among you; fear ye not" (Haggai 2:5)."For to one is given by the spirit the word of wisdom: to another the word of knowledge by the same spirit" (I Cor. 12:8)."And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the spirit, which is the word of God" (Eph. 6:17).And we too are to speak with these same "words of SPIRIT""For it is not you that speak, but the spirit of your Father which speaks [words of spirit] in you" (Matt. 10:20).And of course the same thing was true for Christ:"…the word which you hear is not Mine, but the Father’s [God is spirit] which sent me" (John 14:24).Now then, how did Jesus teach the multitudes, ALWAYS? In parables: "All these things spoke Jesus unto the multitudes in parable; and without a parable spoke He not unto them" (Matt. 13:34; Mark 4:33-34; John 10:6; 16:25). Parables are "words of spirit."The day that we fail to believe Jesus when He tells us that His words "are SPIRIT," is the day that we will fail to understand anything spiritual. The words of Jesus are not to be taken literally, physically, materially, carnally. All of Jesus’ teachings are SPIRITUAL. I will keep this section short, as this principle overlaps with all of the rest of the principles.
It is a valuable exercise to learn the rest of the principles. I for one, am still learning! :D
Arcturus :)
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This idea of language not being a complete or even an effective tool of communication has been pesented here and numerous other places as well as through history, what standard should "spiritual communications be discerned?"
Isa 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.
In Isa 30 it is stated;
Isa 30:8 Now go, write it before them in a table, and note it in a book, that it may be for the time to come forever and ever:
Isa 30:9 That this is a rebellious people, lying children, children that will not hear the law of the LORD:
Isa 30:10 Which say to the seers, See not; and to the prophets, Prophesy not unto us right things, speak unto us smooth things, prophesy deceits:
How easy would it be to be deceived by Satan if we only used "feelings" as a guide?
2Co 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
2Co 11:15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.
How convincing are the arguments of the deceiver?
Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
There are many examples where it is not a suggestion or merely implied to write these things which the Lord speaks, but COMMANDED. I will end this post with one last verse.
1Co 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for examples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.
His Peace and Wisdom to you,
Joe
P.S. If anyone is interested in searching this deeper, do an E-Sword word search using "written" and another search "write" be sure to bring a lunch the results are quite extensive.
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Hi Joe - this is an excellent post. An excellent reminder.
what standard should "spiritual communications be discerned?"
Isa 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.
Isa 30:9 That this is a rebellious people, lying children, children that will not hear the law of the LORD:
Unfortunately, most of the members of the body (myself included) are ignorant of the law. Jesus Christ our Lord fulfilled the law and if we are to be found in Him then the righteousness of the law will be fulfilled in us.
Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
In order to come out of that ignorance we need to study the law (not the letter of the law which is unto sin and death) but the Spirit of the Law which is unto Life. When we are no longer ignorant of the law, then through the Spirit of Christ we are able to apply it to all that we say and do (righteous judgment).
Thank you Joe for this post ;) It was very timely for me.
Peace,
Layla
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You know it is an intresting concept that when Jesus spoke parables that the Pharisees got together in groups but yet the limited disciples
went to Jesus. The Pharisees held meetings to try to figure out what Jesus said, and never knew yet the ignorant fools the disciples went to jesus, I like the way in the scripture say 1 Corinthians 3:18 Let no man decieve himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool,that he may be wise. If you get two smart people together and they start talking no one is learning because they are both talking, is it not funny that people are telling God what his word means instead of listening to Him as to what his words mean.
Just like the pharisees smart guys talking to each other and knowing nothing, discioles go to the one that spoke and asked him. You know if everyone went to God and recieved his understand then we would all speak the same thing the truth in Love. Intresting thing when people use scripture to prove their point and yet God just spoke truth, Truth needs not to be convinced if noone believed truth it would not turn into a lie, Jesus said I am the way the truth and the life. Jesus is the word.
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Hi Pst
I loved the observation of the gathering of the Pharisees in comparison to the Disciples!
You know if everyone went to God and recieved his understand then we would all speak the same thing the truth in Love.
Amen.