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=> General Discussions => Topic started by: dave on March 12, 2011, 01:03:50 AM
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Joh 6:63 the spirit it is that is giving life; the flesh doth not profit anything; the sayings that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life;
Just what is spirit? I know that spirit is more solid and dense than a rock. I know that it is more real than a river flowing or a hot wind blowing.
Faith has more substance than earth when its dug up, so just what is spirit.... other than I AM?
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Joh 6:63 the spirit it is that is giving life; the flesh doth not profit anything; the sayings that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life;
Just what is spirit? I know that spirit is more solid and dense than a rock. I know that it is more real than a river flowing or a hot wind blowing.
Faith has more substance than earth when its dug up, so just what is spirit.... other than I AM?
GOD IS SPIRIT (Jn 4:24) and SPIRIT IS LIFE. (Jn 6:63)
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I can understand that, its so very simple and true, but what does that mean to Edgar Flattenburger? Just what is "spirit"?
A rock is hard. The ocean is salty. A dog barks. A bear has fur. We can go on, all the animals are flesh and all humans are a different kind of flesh. The sun is hot and sand is siffted. Just what is spirit?
Daywalker your answer is good and acceptable, I like it I agree with it but tell me ....
just what is spirit? I do not claim to know, but I know that it is as real and full of substance that is not seen by just anybody, for it is not felt or known by just any soul who claims Jesus as the Saviour.
Spirit is very much like the first taste of cotton candy to a 3 yr old on a hot evening at a carnival... scary, nice and wanting more.
Spirit is real when one believes, and knows what Jesus taught is living the life, giving it...and that more abundantly. Thank you a soul searching.
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Timely question. God bless you.
SPIRIT is one of those words that needs to be removed from the mouths of ministers of satan and brought into the light. That's not a definition, but it's true, I think.
Spirit is invisible, but is the essential realness. It's the light, and the visible is the shadow that it casts. It's at the bottom of everything.
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Are thoughts spirit? I can't touch, see, or hear my thoughts. I can't weigh thoughts
Just for fun, there is something else, that is very powerful, very fundamental, like thoughts are, that also cannot be touched, seen, heard, or weighed, at least in the abstract. You know what that is?? Energy! Now I mean in the abstract, in the very essence, not when it is manifested and released like in heat energy that you can feel when a fire is burning. In the abstract, the real fundamental definition of energy is "the ability to do work" So if a big rock is sitting on top of a hill, it posesses energy, it can do work, it can crush whatever is below or turn a turbine...it is called potential energy, it cannot be seen, or felt, or weighed, but it is there! It can create a great effect, when that rock falls! What exactly is this energy concept, force, whatever, anyway?
And energy cannot be created or destroyed! Is that not interesting? So this potential to do work, it can be manifest in many ways, yet it always exists, cannot be added to or subtracted from. And to make it even more mysterious, everything that exists, can be said to have come from energy, because matter can be converted into energy or vice versa, by Einsteins formula E=mc squared. So to really make it weird, lets say we converted all the matter in the universe directly into energy, into one utterly vast potential. If this potential was not being manifest as heat or light, just as potential, it would be invisible, it would weigh nothing, you could hold it in your hand (metaphorically) yet it would represent unfathomable power. What exactly is this potential?
I think the closest physical parallel to spirit is energy. Energy lies at the root of every physical thing and every physical action in the universe, it is everywhere in the universe, it is the power to make things happen, it is invisible, yet its effects are felt and seen. Kind of like the wind, like when Jesus compared spirit to wind, that it is invisible, you don't know where it comes from, but you can see its effects!
...So for the most speculative question of all, did this incredibly vast potential exist in God, and out of this vast potential, did He bring it forth to to manifest itself in the physical world, and that is what we call energy? I don't know, but I have wondered about it.
Doug
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Micah7:9, The Holy Spirit of Christ inspires and teaches and is like the wind the bible says.
You don't know where it came from but you certainly know when it it leaves you. The Spirit focuses on the eternal. Try with your mind to figure out the eternal things of God and all you will get is rhetoric unless you are in a meditative state which I believe is a gift from God.
The more you are still and emptied of yourself (which takes practice) the more you can almost grasp it with your senses but not really. But the Spirit has to line up with the word of God. All I know it is not us and it stems from love always.
Judy
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Just what is spirit? I know that spirit is more solid and dense than a rock. I know that it is more real than a river flowing or a hot wind blowing.
Faith has more substance than earth when its dug up, so just what is spirit.... other than I AM?
Invisible
John 4:24 God is Spirit...
1 Tim 1:17 Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, to God who alone is wise...
Immortal/Incorruptable
John 4:24 & 1 Tim 1:17 (see above)
Rom 1:23 ...the glory of the incorruptible God ...
Sustaining the entire universe & all living things in it
Col 1:17 ...in Him all things consist...
Acts 17:28 For in Him we live and move and have our being...
Able to influence the hearts & minds of individuals
Ex 9:12 The LORD hardened the heart of Pharaoh...
John 12:40 He has blinded their eyes and hardened their hearts
Just a few scriptures that came to mind. The only thing I could liken it to is all-powerful, invisible energy. But those are the best human terms I can think of.
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Joh 6:63 the spirit it is that is giving life; the flesh doth not profit anything; the sayings that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life;
Just what is spirit? I know that spirit is more solid and dense than a rock. I know that it is more real than a river flowing or a hot wind blowing.
Faith has more substance than earth when its dug up, so just what is spirit.... other than I AM?
Excerpt's from Ray's Material on What is Spirit and from some former threads.
Dear John:
Yes, there is a spirit in man (AND ALL ANIMALS). Nothing can live without "spirit." Spirit IS life (Ecc. 8:8; Ecc. 12:7; Luke 23:46; I Cor. 2:11; etc.). There is no consciousness in our spirit alone. There is only consciousness (soul) when man's spirit is combined with a body. God retains our spirit until resurrection when He puts our spirit into a new body and we once again become conscious or receive back the quality of "soul." We are said to have new "spiritual" bodies, not that we are made "spirits."
God be with you,
Ray
Dear Scott:
I am aswering this just to get it off of my emails.
WHAT third person? Whose spirit is "HIS" spirit? Is that "GOD'S spirit?" Then it isn't its OWN spirit, is it? Actually we are "conceived" by the spirit. We are not "born" until we enter the Kingdom through resurrection and a new spiritual body--then and only then will we be "LIKE the wind."
Jesus was conceived by what? The "spirit god?" There is no "spirit god" in my Bible. Is there one in yours? I don't think so. No, God the Father HAS a spirit, and it is therefore HIS spirit, and that is why it [not 'he'] is called the Spirit OF God. The Spirit OF God BELONGS to God. Now then, does the Father BELONG to the Spirit? No. So follow closely: Since Jesus was conceived BY the Holy Spirit, but He is the "Son OF THE FATHER" (II John 3), then the Spirit of God is the FATHER'S Spirit and is NOT A THIRD PERSON, seeing that Jesus is nowhere called "The Son of the Holy Spirit." Am I going too fast for you?
Sincerely,
Ray
23) Pneuma(Greek) & Ruahh(Hebrew): Spirit: A Current of Air, Non Carnal, Supernatural, always connotes the idea of invisible and Power, Breathe(Pneuma). To blow, Breathe, Wind, to perceive figuratively, vital force of life(Ruahh). Acts. 7:59 " Lord Jesus, receive my spirit, verse 60 " fell asleep." John. 19:30 " It is accomplished, He gave up the spirit." (He stopped breathing). Matt. 27:50 " He let go off the spirit." (Apheten to pneuma). Gen. 1:2 " God's Spirit(Ruahh) was moving to and fro." Psalm. 146:4 " His Spirit(Ruahh) goes out, In that day his thoughts do perish."
SPIRIT
When a man dies his spirit returns to God Who gave it (Lk. 23:46, Psa. 104:24-30). The "spirit" is never said to go to hades or sheol, and the "soul" is never said to go to Heaven at death. Men and beasts have the same spirit [ruach] and they go to the same place (Ecc. 3:18-21). There is no getting around this: when God takes away a living soul's spirit, it always dies. The spirit "gives life." No one can live without "spirit," no matter how young and healthy he may be. There are no exceptions. If there are, where is the Scripture? A dead person cannot experience anything-not pleasure in Heaven or pain in a fabled hell. This is a serious thing. Rom. 14:23 says: "Now everything which is not out of faith is sin." If one doesn't have Scriptures that show people go to eternal hell fire after death, then it is a sin to teach it.
The words "soul" and "spirit" have become corrupted through theology so that they are now used interchangeably, as if they were synonymous. They are not synonymous. There may be certain similarities between soul and spirit, but similarities do not make them one and the same.
The "soul" is the seat of sensation, consciousness, and feelings, not the body or the spirit. It is the spirit that imparts life to the body and the body then becomes a living soul (Gen. 2:7).
A thorough study of the word "soul" in the Scriptures proves that it is used of consciousness, feelings, and emotions. Hence, "sensation" is a good word to define its usage.
Micah, also read the FAQ section, this topic, as you probably know, was discussed many times in the past and is now being discussed in the present and will probably be brought up again in the future, ;). If You type the word Spirit under the Search Mode, you will see what I mean.
Kind Regards, Samson.
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Spirit... how do we relate to something invisible? Well I noticed something that has helped my understanding and that is Spirit seems to relates to TRUTH or the knowledge of the truth. Also Jesus is all about the truth and can be found in Scripture as "the Truth."
John 14:6 Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.
John 18:37 Pilate therefore said to Him, "Are You a king then?" Jesus answered, "You say rightly that I am a king. For this cause I was born, and for this cause I have come into the world, that I should bear witness to the truth. Everyone who is of the truth hears My voice."
v. 38 Pilate said to Him, "What is truth?"
Another thing is the chosen receive the Spirit of Truth (Christ) to bring them out of darkness or into light.
2Cor 4:6 For it is the God who commanded light to shine out of darkness, who has shone in our hearts to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.
John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever--
v. 17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you.
1Peter 2:9 But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light;
John 16:13 However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come.
This "Spirit of Truth" is Jesus Christ in us. That makes me think that the more we know Jesus Christ/Truth the closer we come to God/Spirit, it all seems connected Spirit/Christ/Truth. So we are learning who/what God is... God IS truth, He is everything that is true (the state of being accurate - free of error). It is His Spirit/Truth that sanctifies us and separates us from the world and sets us free.
John 17:17 Sanctify them by Your truth. Your word is truth.
V. 18 As You sent Me into the world, I also have sent them into the world.
V. 19 And for their sakes I sanctify Myself, that they also may be sanctified by the truth.
John 8:32 And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free."
2Co 3:16 Nevertheless when one turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away.
v. 17 Now the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
James 1:18 Of His own will He brought us forth by the word of truth, that we might be a kind of firstfruits of His creatures.
Eph 1:17 that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give to you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of Him,
v. 18 the eyes of your understanding being enlightened...
1John 4:6 We are of God. He who knows God hears us; he who is not of God does not hear us. By this we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error.
There are so many Scripture that speak of Spirit and Truth, these are just some that I found and thought might help this discussion.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
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I will get back to you brothers and sisters, I say thank you, your responses I find good and solid. You, and I believe it is from Rays open teaching of what the the Bible, Jesus and the prophets taught. Its open and right there. Thank you all very much. Spirit is real and full, yet we cant see it. I dont really believe anymore that it is invisible, it is just not seen....yet and still it is there when we are permited.
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''Just what is spirit?''
I think these next example might give some understanding on the matter:
Have anyone hear about the spirit of a brand? You know that ''something'' that is attached to a product in many different ways, you can't touch it, sometimes it shows it self in random logos, professional designs, and catchy phrases, or distinctive words,
an expensive t-shirt with a famous logo on it, is no longer a peace of cloth to cover ourselves, now it is a ''.... ( brand name ) ....'' very awesome and cool t-shirt. The ''style'', the ''essence'', the ''experience'' of what wearing that peace of fabric brings, that is 'the spirit of the brand'. In short; buying a spirit can get very expensive, ha. You could be buying the spirit of luxury, etc..
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This is a good topic and I find the answers interesting and helpful.
I like what I have heard one time and I find it easy to identify with.
The spirit is that part of me that is God conscious.( the little voice in the back of my head you could say.)
The soul is that part of me that is world conscious.(emotions, mind, intellect.)
The body is that part of me that is self conscious (physical pain.)
Paul said in Acts 17:28 "In him we live and move have our being", that means we live in God, and since God is spirit, we have His spirit.
Every one has His spirit, It's to bad that most people are not aware of His spirit living in them.
We are encouraged in Galatians to walk in the spirit and we will not fulfill the lust of the flesh.
That's not an easy thing to do, and yet it's the only way we can worship God.
In 1 John 2:27 we read that the anointing that you have received from him abides in you, That is the Holy Spirit.
We have been salved (Smeared) with the Spirit of Truth, That's why I am not afraid of being led astray by what I read or hear,because that spirit will always warn me, it always speaks the truth.
The Psalmist says "Be still and know that I am God", that is how we hear God's spirit speaking to our spirit.
The laws of the Universe are spiritual, we can't define them but we have no problem cooperating with them and trusting in them.
I know I have not given you a definition of the Spirit, but these are just my thoughts.
Peace to all of you.
John.
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just wanted to add my observations (as i have been thinking about this alot lately as well).
as i think about 'spirit', i know God is spirit, and God is perfect, sinless & good.
but, i read there are also 'lying spirits', evil spirits, ect. Satan is a 'spirit' being who was a lier and murderer from his beginning. Angels were also said to have sinned (IIPet2:4) brings to mind the following verses:
1Co 15:35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?
1Co 15:36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:
1Co 15:37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:
1Co 15:38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.
1Co 15:39 All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.
1Co 15:40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.
1Co 15:41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.
1Co 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
1Co 15:43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
1Co 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
1Co 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
1Co 15:46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
1Co 15:47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
1Co 15:48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
1Co 15:49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
1Co 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1Co 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
1Co 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
1Co 15:55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
So, being made spirit doesn't sound like it necessarily means 'sinnless"? So it would have to be Gods soveriegnty & will that keeps spirits from sinning?
also, i think that the 'church' world doesn't like the idea of everything being spirit and inviseable....i think that is one reason they cling to their fantasies of 'heaven' with mantions, ect.....it appeals to their flesh & greed.
just my random thoughts.
lauriellen
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Micah-- I would also add that "spirit" in Hebrew/Greek also means "breath" or "wind". Breath is necessary for life. Wind blows to and fro, yet it is invisible. The air we breathe is everywhere yet we cannot see it. We 'feel' it every time we inhale, but we cannot see it with our eyes. Scripture tells us that it is the Breath or Spirit of God that causes us to be alive. (not that we are 'literally' inhaling God each time we take a breath LOL)
The only thing I could liken it to is all-powerful, invisible energy. But those are the best human terms I can think of.
Great description!
One thing I notice when reading scripture is whenever we read of someone becoming "filled with the spirit" they do something amazing/powerful/awesome, etc. God's Spirit gave Moses and Joshua great wisdom and the ability to lead the Hebrews away from Egypt and to the promised land. His Spirit makes people prophesy, even false prophets (like Balaam whom God refused to let his mouth open unless he spoke truth). His Spirit makes hearts stubborn. It makes people brave and courageous, like Gideon, willing to lead a small band of men against a huge army and defeat it. His Spirit makes men strong enough to rip apart a lion, like Samson. So many times in the past I read all these stories and overlooked those 'little phrases' like, "he became filled with the spirit of the Lord", and "the spirit of God came upon him", and "the spirit from the Lord" caused this or that. God's spirit is everywhere, constantly interacting with humanity, secretly and silently guiding them this way or that way; and only a very few blessed of us are graciously granted the ability to see it.
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I never conceived how many ways and uses the word "spirit" has. The only other way I know the word "spirit" is used is when referring to alcoholic beverages. I wonder how that connection was made-- except that a person's personality/character is altered when alcohol is ingested. My point being, that even this change is internal and not visible but it's EFFECTS are often heard, seen, felt.
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'Spirit is invisible, but is the essential realness. It's the light, and the visible is the shadow that it casts. It's at the bottom of everything.'
Thanks Dave, food for thought here - especially this: 'It's the light, and the visible is the shadow that it casts'.
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Hi Everyone,
I've appreciated the thought provoking observations here, what came to my mind in regard to this "spirit analogy" topic is gravity.
Gravity, we live in it without really being overtly aware of it (until perhaps as we age and climb up stairs).
No one can really explain it completely, it has become even more mysterious as one delves into quantum mechanics and string theory...
A quote from NASA Astronomer Dr. Sten Odenwald;
"If you could turn off gravity, it is mathematically predicted that space and time would also vanish!"
http://www.astronomycafe.net/gravity/gravity.html
Peace,
Joe
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WOW Joe! ....Now that's a Smorgasbord of heavenly banquet delights! A rich menu you serve dear brother of light...faster than the speed of light, beyond gravity!
Debx
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Hi Deb,
Glad you enjoyed this incredibly amazing snapshot of craftsmanship, beauty, artistry and mystery provided by the Author of all things!
I know that for some physical things hold little interest or perceived relevance but to me it speaks volumes as to the creative powers of our God. If we cannot fully comprehend the physical wonders of His handiwork (in the present realm/age) how can we even pretend to understand or anticipate the spiritual wonders that await us in the ages to come.
Brings to mind a couple of old favorites of mine;
Isa 64:4 For since the beginning of the world men have not heard, nor perceived by the ear, neither hath the eye seen, O God, beside thee, what he hath prepared for him that waiteth for him.
1Cor 2:9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
Peace,
Joe
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Hey Joe
I see you as one of the "us" in this statement of Truth ~
1Co 2:10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
In fact I know you are us, by His Spirit! I am fully persuaded ~ :)
Blessings to you brother
Deb
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Hi Deb,
That certainly is a very generous and kind statement... I pray you are right!
Thank you Sister,
Joe
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... I pray you are right!
....
“You are the Light of the world” ~ that certainty you carry with you all the days of your life as in the Mind of Christ in you, that is resurrected out of the pain of death and suffering into the Glorious Love of God, you live and have your being Joe.
I am certain Joe. :) It's good to see you!
Deb
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Mat 5:14 Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.
Dear Deborah,
We all have moments (some have more than moments) where His Light shines through us, often it is not perceived by many but it is certainly joyful when even one person can relate to something we might feel has spiritual relevance.
Peace,
Joe
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I listened to Ray's bible study and he said the Father wants to hug us. For me that was so significant. Been going through so rough spots for a while now. When I went to bed I was thinking very intently on the bible study. I asked Father to please give me a hug. He did!! That too, is spirit. I didn't see it but I did feel it.
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I remember Ray teaching on things like denseness of a rock and spirit. It was that teaching that has my mind in some what of an uproar. A rock is not what we believe or think it to be. Can someone help me on that teaching? thanks
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Hi Micah7:9,
Here is a passage from the conference 'What Is The Father's Will,' that I believe goes we what you were speaking of.
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3720.0.html --------------
So let’s think about this a little bit, who is the Father? In Him we live and breath and have our being. Liken the ocean to the Spirit of God, and liken us to the fish. The fish are 95% water, the ocean is in the fish, and the fish are in the ocean, get it.
A bird has very porous bones, because they have to be very light. It flies in the heavens, it breaths fast, because it needs strength and oxygen. So the air (which is like the Spirit of God, which is what he calls it in the NT, Greek word for spirit is pheuma), the expanse is even called heaven, where the bird flies, and liken the air to the Spirit of God. The bird has air in him and is flying through the air.
Now this is what the Scriptures say, we are in God and God is in us. So, get it out of your head that God is a man, sitting on a stone throne, like Abraham Lincoln in Washington D.C., an old man with gray hair. God is right here, it (Bible) says so, we have to just listen to the words.
God is Spirit, it also says God is invisible, you can’t see Him, not literally. We can see Him in Spirit, as in our heart, in our mind, our soul, our spirit, in our innermost being.
The thing that makes us different from plants and other animals, is we can see God. I’m trying to help you right now, to see God. So when you leave here, you will see God in a way you didn’t, when you walked in here. If God opens it up to you, I can only tell you, but God must open it up for you to grasp it.
God is here, not here because we are here, but He was here before we got here and He’ll still be after we leave. Because this desk is here and this desk has it's cohesion in Jesus Christ. It is through Jesus Christ that this desk holds together or it would fall apart. It takes energy and power, what is the source of the power, Jesus Christ, which comes from the Father and it’s passed off out of Him. One Father, one God, all and everything is out of Him. GOD IS ALMIGHTY!
What did Jesus say when He left His apostles and vanished out of their sight.
He said, “all power is given unto Me in heaven and in earth,” (Matt. 28:18).
That’s why He has come, He’s not the Father, but He’s God and He possesses all power in heaven and earth. By being the One, who possesses all power in heaven and earth, He is God. He didn’t have all power in heaven and earth from all eternity, it was given to Him. One God, everything is out of that God. We’re in Him and He’s in us, because He’s Spirit. Not a Spirit, in some geographical location. The reason God knows everything is in all places at all times, is because that’s where He is. He’s Spirit and He refers to Himself as Spirit. My Spirit is here, there and everywhere.
David was inspired to write, where can I go to get away from you God, up to heaven, down to sheol, (Psalms 139:7-12). There’s no place I can go, where you are not. Why? God is Spirit, God is not a man, get that out of your head. He (God) tells us that, God is not a man... Jesus Christ is a man.
Where is God? EVERYWHERE!
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Here is a section from the Conference "How We Got The Bible' that I believe you may have been the passage you were speaking of. There was a bit more to it, you can go to the link to read it all.
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,5815.0.html ------
God said knowledge would be increased and the wise would begin to understand things that were never known before. I think we are getting there. Things are not what they appear
You think things are what they appear to be, they are not. This podium seems solid, it’s not, it’s all space. Suppose as big as this stage is (6’ x 6’) and that high, there is a big block of solid polished stainless steel. It would weight a lot, very heavy. Do you know that 99.999...% of that block of steel is space. It’s an illusion and for all practicality, it isn’t even there. If you took the space out of it, then it would be so tiny that you couldn’t see it. Why? Because it would be to tiny to see.
v
There is a force between those atoms, you can’t pick one of these atoms off there, they are held together by force. What kind of force? I haven’t a clue. The scientist haven’t a clue. It’s not gravity. Gravity doesn’t hold iron together. One block of iron is attracted to another block of iron a little bit by gravity. But the block of iron doesn’t hold together by gravity. What holds it together? I don’t know.
Why is it if I take two pieces of iron and push them together, why don’t they join? If you can’t pull this piece of iron apart, how come you can’t take two and put them together and they stay? Now it’s one piece of iron, it doesn’t need glue to hold together. So if you take two, why can’t you just touch them and they stick? Why don’t the atoms from this one go mixing with the atom of the other and mix up and then they are bound into one piece? Why?
v
The point is, God is behind it and God made it. He didn’t just make it though, it seems apparent now that He put wisdom into the material itself. Scientist are starting to see that the material itself contains it’s own wisdom. I didn’t say a brain. It doesn’t exactly have a brain, it has built in wisdom. It knows what to do under certain circumstances.
You say, ‘no it just reacts to laws.’ No, that’s what scientist always thought. They are seeing now that it’s way too complicated. What matter does or is capable of accomplishing when it is heated or cooled and interchanges and all that, is way beyond a law. It has it’s own wisdom built in.
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I remember Ray teaching on things like denseness of a rock and spirit. It was that teaching that has my mind in some what of an uproar. A rock is not what we believe or think it to be. Can someone help me on that teaching?
John 4:24 God is Spirit...
Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
v. 16 For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him.
v. 17 And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist.
The best way that I understand this 'physical' creation, as a very complex and beautiful setting inwhich God has created to do this work. It can only be sustained and held together by that which is permanent... spirit/God. It was the masterful plan of the Father to serve in doing a very important work, as somewhat of a training ground, as we are really in the preliminary work, the early stages, of forming man into His image. So it is serving perfectly as the purpose He created it for now. And yes right now there is much suffering humanity must endure, but at some point that will all end.
Rev 21:4 And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away.
So God has ordered the way things operate, so things work as He planned them to and physical things that are not needed at some point can be done away. But this grand work of the physical creation may take ages yet to reach the point where God will be all in all. But as I see it God would have no problem sustaining all the wonders of this creation indefinitely or as long as He wants to.
I don't know it this helps any, but remembered the passage you were talking about and brought it up.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
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Yep, and thanks again :)