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=> General Discussions => Topic started by: Michele on March 26, 2007, 07:28:34 AM
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I am on a quest for the Truth. After being married to a complete athiest for nearly 20 years, and now a mother, I feel i have the responcibility to find out answers to so many questions about Jesus/God/the Bible etc....and I haven't the knowledge, only the Hope. I realize that the whole of my "christianity" is based on Hope/Faith and the way I was raised. And so as not appear as something I am not, there are days when I ask God "Are you there God/Jesus? Is all of this True?" and then I feel utter guilt. I truly pray to God nearly obsessively. I ask Him to forgive me for not KNOWING that he is there. Does that make me horrible? Does everyone else here but me KNOW without any doubt ever whatsoever that God IS everthing I Hope He is?
This world is so packed full of Anti-God sentiment....I guess that's ok because God's got it all under control, yes? and we cannot surprise Him.
Every search I go on leads me to these people who are different than me in faith/hope...they either all say either God and Jesus /dead/non-existent/false/Myths OR the flipside of that coin is the others who preach vehemently about how everyone but them who Choose to believe are going to burn in hell for all eternity! The non-believers (and they seem to be a majority to me) are all saying the bible is a myth, and that God and JEsus are nothing more than more "gods" such as all the other "gods" of old greek myths.....and that Jesus was a real person but just a historical nut with a lot of kooky beliefs about himself.
I don't believe this and yet I have not a good answer as to why...and that's just not good enough!
I believe most days because I Want to belive and that's just not good enough! Especially when I have a child to raise. I can't say "Well honey I believe this cause it feels good to believe it!
So what can I do?
This is the only place that I feel comfortable and happy and feel like I"m hearing what feels like the truth to me.
I have learned/am learning that GOD Drags us to Him...and not You choose Him......YES?
So, I've been told by Ray and others that my job is to just learn/teach in the course of things to teach my child about God/Jesus...but with all the questions going round my head and also questions that all the athiests of the world ask (including those in my immediate family) that I have no good answers for...I am wondering if i need to find some "proofs" or as many proofs as actually exist in this world.
So are there any "Proofs" of the historical accuracy of the bible stories?
Archeological digs/scientific findings/ anything?
Seems like there ought to be something that would qualify?
I feel like I'd be fighting a losing battle trying to convince the athiest members of my extended family about my beliefs...and other "Christians" have caused probably millions upon millions of people to try very hard to disprove God/JEsus/bible ....because of their misunderstandings of scriptures.... It's just so hard.
I"ve come (or rather God's lead me) to the belief that my goal in life is not to convince others as much as it is to find the Answers for Myself and my own peace of mind and to find confidence on my own personal walk with God...and that's something that might make an impression on others...if God wills it.
If anybody knows of any serious books on the historical accuracy of the Bible scriptures...I'd be pleased to know them.
Thank you,
Michele
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Good Morning Michelle,
When reading your post, I couldn't help but think of Thomas~
John 20:29-31
Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.
And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not wriitten in this book:
But these are written, that ye might believe that JESUS IS THE CHRIST, THE SON OF GOD; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
My prayers are with you,
Lisa
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There are historical books that do mention Christ. The Archco Volume, Josephus, a letter supposedly written by Pontius Pilate describing Jesus, are some that I can think of from the secular viewpoint. However, if the Lord God Almighty doesn't touch the heart and convince a person in the spirit, words written by man would do absolutely no good. Men are very good at convincing others who think only in the flesh through books, artists, music, movies, of their own vile doctrines that have nothing to do with the gospel of Jesus Christ. Do a quick google search of these titles and you might find excerpts.
May God increase your faith,
Barbara
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Hi Michelle
When it comes to the Holy Scriptures, the one test that proves it is not just made-up bedtime stories, is prophecy. There is no way that the prophecies of the Scriptures could be fulfilled against the massive mathematical odds, except by Divine intervention. That's a mathematical fact.
Also there are about two thousand New Testament manuscripts that are in remarkable agreement.
Secondly, Jesus is mentioned in documents outside of the Scriptures:
1. References to Jesus in the Jewish Talmud. The Tannaitic Period mentions the hanging (on a cross) of "Yeshu the Nazarene."
The miracles of Jesus and key historical facts are confirmed in the Jewish Talmud by the very people bent on stopping Him.
2. References to Jesus by the Jewish historian Josephus.
3. References to Jesus by the historian Tacitus.
4. Reference to Jesus by the historian Pliny the Younger.
5. References to Jesus by the historian Suetonius.
6. Reference to Jesus by the historian Phlegon.
7. Reference to Jesus by Lucian of Samosata.
Remember that it is by faith that we believe in God and His Son, not by sight or physical proof/evidence, although it is there if one digs a bit. Without faith it is impossible to please God.
It is also God that gives us that faith, it is a gift not given to the ALL in this age. Many (not all) are called, but... few are chosen, in this Age.
Also, you cannot convince anyone of the truth if God is not calling them at this time. It will be like coming up against a brick wall. We offer the truth/facts to them and then leave it to God to do the rest if it is in His will.
Three main areas that helped me get a firm foundation of understanding was: learning about the uniqueness of the Scriptures, the scientific fact that evolutionary mythology/religion is a hoax and Ray's material and how to use the Hebrew and Greek to check for errors in various bible translations.
The truths of God are not for everyone now, but all will come to a full knowledge of the truth in the next age/s to come.
This is all I can think of now, I'm sure others here will be able to help you out more, enjoy your journey for truth.
God's peace be with you. :)
Andrevan.
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Hi Michelle, me again :D.
One thing atheists do not realise is that they are just as religious as anyone else. Their religion is called Naturalism, "everything made itself by natural non-intelligent chance".
They have to believe this by faith, perhaps more faith than us, as there is no hard scientific evidence for their "everything made itself by natural chance". Everyone has a belief in their origins, but most probably are not even aware of this. Atheists worship "Mother Earth", they worship the creation instead of the Creator ;D.
Ray explains the unscientific and ridiculous fable of evolution in his latest audio bible study (March). If life came about by UNintelligent random means, then WHY did it do this? How did it "know" to come about or as Ray mentions, how did an organism "know" that it needed an eye, when it didn't "know" that there was such a thing as an eye!
This can be used for all other things that "evolved" out of thin air.
God bless.
Andrevan.
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Does everyone else here but me KNOW without any doubt ever whatsoever that God IS everthing I Hope He is?
Thank you,
Michele
Hello Michele
The universe is way to complex to have just "happened" It was Created By God, of this i have no doubt... What is your hope?
Chris R
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Hi Michele.
I really haven't read any books on Jesus other than the bible.
I have seen on the History channel of evedence that Jesus was on earth, also there were many other subjects from the bible that were also brought out in facts that the bible is correct.
Try to log on to the history channel site and they might have titles on what you're looking for. ;D
I hope this helps.
In Christ
Randy.
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Hi Hon. Google early church history or early church fathers. the Catholic Encyclopedia has some info also. All the historians that
Andrevan mentioned can be googled.
There are but few writings that mention Julius Caesar, but there are literally thousands of papers and/or fragments about Jesus found on digs.
The Dead Sea Scrolls show us the dedication the scribes had to copying exactly everything down thru the ages, so we can pretty much trust the writings.
Pretty much tho it has to be just...FAITH..... I believe it. It will being easier telling your child about God than one who has to tell them about hell.
God Bless you and I will pray for you. NEVER feel like you are the only one that has thought something or felt guilty...we all have! You are not alone. We love you!
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Michelle,
Check out Jospephus who was Jewish historian. I know that there is other historical proof of Jesus outside the bible.
I will PM you a book that can be a good starting place for you.
Sincerely,
Anne C. McGuire
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Speaking as someone who was an atheist (after being a Catholic from a Cahtolic-Protestant "mixed marriage") for about ten years in the 70s, but someone who never believed in (macro) evolution (there is abundant evidence of micro evolution...dog breeds, for instance), I can say that you need to check out St. Thomas Aquinas, who first proposed the theory of "first causes" among other proofs of God's existence: basically it says that everything, including the so-called "Big Bang" has to have had a cause (what do atheists-evolutionists say caused the Big Bang? They don't know, do they?), just like the formation of life out of the so-called "primordial soup" has to have a cause. Aquinas makes abundant and basically irrefutible proof that the first cause if God. But anyway...
...even professing to be an atheist for about ten years, a certain event happened during that time that convicnced me that a higher power was watching over me. A bunch of us atheists were driving to Canada in a car with bald tires during a severe storm...trucks were jacknifing everywhere, and sure enough we swerved all over the thruway, hit a guardrail, careened across the highway with oncoming traffic and never got hit...wound up in the island between the northbound and southbound traffic near Rome, NY. The first thing out of my mouth was, "Now why would God save a bunch of atheists?" therby acknowledging God's existence I though I said I didn't believe in Him! I guarantee you that the ONLY way "you" are going to convince them of God is to rely on God to do so, using you to do so. You simply won't be able to do this yourself.
Also, check out Pascal, Newton, and other great 16th and 17th century thinkers. For them, the non-existence of God is a mathematical impossiblity! It is truly amazing (according to His Will) that today's "scientists" insist there is no God!
Deb aka snorky
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Dear Sister
Stay in the word! Because, we have need of NO MAN to teach us, only the Holy Spirit! That is the spirits' job...to teach fleshly and carnal humans things of the spirit; there is no other way to know spiritual matters, unless the Holy Spirit of God teaches you...but...THROUGH the Word of God (the bible).
spend time in the word and more will be revealed to you, as well as on this forum and website! Never give up finding answers to your spiritual questions! This is the quest of my life, and my passion! It is a great adventure and it is worth the time it takes to find the treasures (truths)! (Most others will never find these truths that we have found!) What a priviledge and honor and blessing it is to learn of HIM! Thank You GOD for your Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirits' job is also to comfort us; Lord knows what all of us suffer through every day from being persecuted by others!
STAY IN THE WORD..(THY WORD IS TRUTH)
(NOTE MY SIGNOFF PHRASE ;))
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Hi Michelle,
I sympathize with your concerns and struggles. While it is true that only the Spirit can teach us the truth, for someone who is first coming to Christ, sometimes the starting point is through the natural physical things of world. It is seems only "natural" that our logical carnal minds want proof and evidence. This may be how God initially "calls" someone to him depending on their personality.
Of course, I agree that if it is not their time, no amount of proof will convince them.
Years ago when I was longing to share Christ with my then fiance (now husband) I tried to use all sorts of material to appeal to his logic even though it was not logic itself that had brought ME to Christ. (Strange eh?)
There was a book which did make an impact on him and convinced him of the proof of Christ's existence and that the scriptures are for real. (I'm not sure if I can post it on here but you can PM me if you want to know what it is). It was about the true story of an atheist journalist who decides to investigate the faith of his wife, who he greatly respected. By the end of his investigative journey he became a believer.
The thing is, even though this book also convinced my husband that Jesus Christ is real, his spiritual journey somewhat "stalled" (for lack of a better word) since then. He believes but does not pursue any kind of spiritual development. Again, that's in God's hands, but at least I can be happy that he does believe.
Recently, especially after learning what I have at bibletruths, I have simply focused on being the best wife I can be, while patiently waiting from him the questions I long to hear....
1 Peter 3:15 NIV
But in your hearts set apart Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect..
I'll be praying for you,
Peace,
Diana
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Speaking as someone who was an atheist (after being a Catholic from a Cahtolic-Protestant "mixed marriage") for about ten years in the 70s, but someone who never believed in (macro) evolution (there is abundant evidence of micro evolution...dog breeds, for instance), I can say that you need to check out St. Thomas Aquinas, who first proposed the theory of "first causes" among other proofs of God's existence: basically it says that everything, including the so-called "Big Bang" has to have had a cause (what do atheists-evolutionists say caused the Big Bang? They don't know, do they?), just like the formation of life out of the so-called "primordial soup" has to have a cause. Aquinas makes abundant and basically irrefutible proof that the first cause if God. But anyway...
God is the first cause, however, science refutes the Big Bang hypothesis, it would have to had broken the laws of physics to actually occur. Also, the sequence of cosmological (big bang) evolution contradicts how God actually created: the earth first, then vegetation, then only the other planets including the moon and sun. Evolutionists have the stars (suns) first, then planets (earth), then only life on earth. We therefore should throw off every secular world view of our origins.
I'm intrigued how you were an atheist but never believed in macro-evolution, what were your thoughts as to where everything came from? ;D
...even professing to be an atheist for about ten years, a certain event happened during that time that convicnced me that a higher power was watching over me. A bunch of us atheists were driving to Canada in a car with bald tires during a severe storm...trucks were jacknifing everywhere, and sure enough we swerved all over the thruway, hit a guardrail, careened across the highway with oncoming traffic and never got hit...wound up in the island between the northbound and southbound traffic near Rome, NY. The first thing out of my mouth was, "Now why would God save a bunch of atheists?" therby acknowledging God's existence I though I said I didn't believe in Him! I guarantee you that the ONLY way "you" are going to convince them of God is to rely on God to do so, using you to do so. You simply won't be able to do this yourself.
I love the way God called you out of atheism through those freakish events, by His grace you're here today sharing with us :).
Also, check out Pascal, Newton, and other great 16th and 17th century thinkers. For them, the non-existence of God is a mathematical impossiblity! It is truly amazing (according to His Will) that today's "scientists" insist there is no God!
Deb aka snorky
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Hi Andrevan,
You said “God is the first cause, however, science refutes the Big Bang hypothesis, it would have to had broken the laws of physics to actually occur. Also, the sequence of cosmological (big bang) evolution contradicts how God actually created: the earth first, then vegetation, then only the other planets including the moon and sun. Evolutionists have the stars (suns) first, then planets (earth), then only life on earth. We therefore should throw off every secular world view of our origins.
I'm intrigued how you were an atheist but never believed in macro-evolution, what were your thoughts as to where everything came from?” ;D
I have often pondered how the scientific theories about the beginning could be right and still not conradict the Genesis
version of creation. I actually see no contradiction, even if the big bang theory is correct.
To begin with, God created the laws of physics, is there any reason that he could not defy them if He chose?
Jesus rising after death defies our physical laws. God exists outside of time, that is why He knows the future in spite of
our freedom of choice. That defies physics.
But as to the order of creation. Genesis 1:1 says that God created the heavens and the earth.
The heavens are everything else out there. The entire universe with all of the galaxies, all of the other other solar systems plus the earth.
Our sun is just a dying star, so He placed the moon and the dying star so as to create light in the darkness.
It all still fits for me Andrevan, even if the scientists somehow prove that the universe started
with a big bang. If not, then whatever they do find to be true, if in fact God ever wants for us to know, will have to fit as well.
If it is in fact correct.
Praise God! ;D
Tim
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Hi there Michelle and all,
I have been having doubts about my faith aswell. I want a faith that belongs to me and not on my predecessors or society. Built on a solid rock not on sand.
My thoughts go as follows:
For those who say that the bible is right because of prophecy, well what prophecy is that? We don't know when the Old Testament was finally penned down, so some narration could have been written AFTER the event happened. And talking of Jesus' birth, etc, it doesn't take a diploma in rocket science to suppose that the writers of the gospels, narrated them to fit certain prophecies in the Old Testament to suit their agenda that Christ had a virgin birth, etc. We just don't know.
Don't get me wrong. I don't like these thoughts that i have but i have them because i am human. I don't feel guilty though, Michelle because i know that God can take them and God knows i have them before i do. I just feel that sometimes i will give up my faith in Christ and turn to Buddhism or some other faith.
There are some things that put me off christendom, because if i told a
christian that i
mediated, they would immediately think of a new age religion or Buddhism and say that they'll pray for me.
Jesus to me seems a distant figure sometimes. To glibly say that He died for my sins, sometimes doesn't make sense or when christians say, Believe in Jesus, what does that mean exactly?
Maybe i want a grown-up faith not a childish version that christendom preaches!
This probably will make you feel worse Michelle but this is how i feel too so you are not alone. God probably loves your honesty, He knows you better than you know yourself.
God bless
Nancy
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Nancy, What I am a bit confused about is you said you feel sometime like turning other faiths like buddhism. Ok what hope does buddhism gives you or other faiths that is better that the hope of Christian faith? Is buddha real?
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Hi Nancy and Michelle,
I see you both are having doubts about Jesus and looking to other books for proof and as Nancy related, possibly other faiths. My question is, have you all read what Jesus has to say to you. Mainly the four gospels in the bible, for now. To have faith in someone, you must have a relationship with them first. Hear what HE has to say......does JESUS speak to your heart? I'm not talking about other Christians or even myself. Are you judging your faith by what you have learned from others rather than the author himself? I say this in love, because it saddens me when I see persons lead astray by outside influences.
Blessings in your quest,
Lisa
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Hi Andrevan,
You said “God is the first cause, however, science refutes the Big Bang hypothesis, it would have to had broken the laws of physics to actually occur. Also, the sequence of cosmological (big bang) evolution contradicts how God actually created: the earth first, then vegetation, then only the other planets including the moon and sun. Evolutionists have the stars (suns) first, then planets (earth), then only life on earth. We therefore should throw off every secular world view of our origins.
I'm intrigued how you were an atheist but never believed in macro-evolution, what were your thoughts as to where everything came from?” ;D
I have often pondered how the scientific theories about the beginning could be right and still not conradict the Genesis
version of creation. I actually see no contradiction, even if the big bang theory is correct.
To begin with, God created the laws of physics, is there any reason that he could not defy them if He chose?
Jesus rising after death defies our physical laws. God exists outside of time, that is why He knows the future in spite of
our freedom of choice. That defies physics.
But as to the order of creation. Genesis 1:1 says that God created the heavens and the earth.
The heavens are everything else out there. The entire universe with all of the galaxies, all of the other other solar systems plus the earth.
Our sun is just a dying star, so He placed the moon and the dying star so as to create light in the darkness.
It all still fits for me Andrevan, even if the scientists somehow prove that the universe started
with a big bang. If not, then whatever they do find to be true, if in fact God ever wants for us to know, will have to fit as well.
If it is in fact correct.
Praise God! ;D
Tim
Hi Tim
I understand the points you raised, they are good ones. However, the Big Bang has its origin in secular philosophy masquerading as science. God has already told us how He created everything. Gen 1:1 is not a contradiction of Gen 1:2. Gen 1:1 is not in sequential order, it is an introduction which is explained in detail in the sequential order of Gen 1:2-31. God created light before He created our sun or moon, notice Gen 1:16, the stars (from earth's perspective): the rest of the cosmos after earth. As Ray mentioned somewhere, everything in God's Word is important and in there for a reason.
The reason I mentioned the contradictions between the secular "creator's" and our Creator's versions was to show that we need to put God's Word first and believe it, and put man's (unscientific) opinions second. What can erode some Christian's faith is when Theologians place man's opinions on origins above God's account, such as false doctrines like Theistic Evolution do.
It is my opinion that God purposely created everything in the order (Gen 1:2-31) that He did, so that it would be contrary to man's "scientific" order and reasoning. The reason: His glory. :) Those people that think themselves wise (scientists/philosophers) are confounded and made to look foolish by God before men.
I don't think Jesus defies our (or His) physical laws. Our physical laws were written from only what we've observed and tested, however, there may be many more laws that we have yet to discover, if and when God furthers men's understanding. So when Jesus raised the dead and when God raised Him, I don't believe any laws of physics were broken, God merely exercised laws that we have no idea of at this time.
Anyway, I've rambled on enough and I admit my understanding is severely limited, and you raised some valid points, thanks.
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Nancy, you wrote: "For those who say that the bible is right because of prophecy, well what prophecy is that? We don't know when the Old Testament was finally penned down, so some narration could have been written AFTER the event happened. And talking of Jesus' birth, etc, it doesn't take a diploma in rocket science to suppose that the writers of the gospels, narrated them to fit certain prophecies in the Old Testament to suit their agenda that Christ had a virgin birth, etc. We just don't know."
Actually, we do know, thousands of people have tried for many years to disprove those prophecies and prove the Scriptures to be a hoax... they've ALL failed! Many sound scholarly works have shown the fulfilled prophecies to be valid. I can recommend a book that helped me get a sound knowledge of the uniqueness of the Scriptures, I'll PM it to you and Michelle.
God's peace to you all. :)
Andrevan.
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Hi there all and Prosizz,
The reason i mention Buddism, is because i don't particularly like the rules of other religions and it seems to be a free sort of faith, you meditate on your own and that's it.
Sometimes the pressure of christianity gets to me. When you tell people you are a christian, they immediately think that you should be perfect and that you are against everything. For instance, people have said to me whilst in an argument concerning homosexuality,
"Well you should be against it because you are a christian"! I choose not to judge others on this or other matters, so i am not believed to be a good christian for that.
Or people think that you don't like a naughty joke now and again or that you are a fuddy duddy, etc.
I have spent my whole life being something i'm not because of my 'faith' and i am getting tired of it. There are all the ought to's, you can't swear, or smoke or drink or dance or this or that, i'm tired of it all. That's why i sometimes feel like running away from my faith. Maybe i'm just ranting or telling God off or something.
Thanks for your replies
God bless
Nancy
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Michele
I notice that you received a lot of valuable support and out reaching empathy for your question and your post.
I was just wondering how much of Bible Truths you have read? If you have read it all, do you agree with it all? I have read it all and know I have to read it again and again and again and even then I will not have totally assimilated all its mysteries and deep truths of enlightenment.
I find that Jesus is veiled in mystery of which much is revealed here! He is concealed to the eyes of the worldly and He did not show up at King Herod's palace after He rose again and say "I told you so!"...
Peace to you
Arcturus :)
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I just read this thread and am wondering why it stopped?? (yes, I am still playing catch up on the forum from vacation)
Michele and Nancy, that is great advice from Arcturus. Reading and totally digesting BT will probably take a lifetime. Apart from the Bible, it is the best material you can read. Even his e-mails are mini-teachings better than most sermons of Christendom.
In the last couple of years, my emotions and thoughts have been like a roller-coaster ride. High highs and low lows. Why did God do this, why isn't life more like this, why didn't God do it this way, this is too hard, I wish I could go back, this doesn't make any sense, why, why, why........OMG this is so awesome, yes, this is it, this is the truth!, God is so awesome, God knows what He is doing, what a fabulous plan, I can't wait for the All in All....
See what I mean? One thing, well several, staying in the Word, praying to keep "intimacy" w/ God, reading BT, and this forum is helping keep me grounded and at least staying in the middle (not so bi-polar).
For the other "thread" in this thread.
I know a man, who graduated from the University of Michigan grad school as a scientist. Biology/Physics. He became a computer "something" to program the Richard M. Nixon library. This was back in the late 70's. (true story) His wife, my friend, tricked him into coming to a "cool, far-out" prayer meeting. He was stoned at the time (he usually was). Anyway, he got instantly sober at the meeting. And became an instant Christian. (as we knew it then). He would tell us stories about biology and physics-like learning things in one class and going to the next class and hearing the complete opposite. He had a resolute faith that God created the universe, and all in it including all the scientific laws.
Sorry, I got windy.
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Dear Michele,
Like Gena, I'm catching up on different threads that I missed for the few days that I was away, and don't know why this thread ended.
I think that where you are in the Lord, you have a lot of legitimate questions. Especially living with someone who doesn't believe in the existence of God. The advice given to you about reading all of Rays teachings are good, but unless God reveals it to you, or any of us, it is like reading the newspaper. Remember that there are two billion confessing Christians in the world, and there are only a handful that we know of, who are able to have ears to hear and eyes to see. Your husband is no different than they are when it comes to being blind. When the disciples asked the Lord why He spoke to the multitudes in parables.....
"He answered and said to them, "Because it has been given to you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given." Matt. 13:11
Michele, trying to find proof that God or Jesus exist is at best futile. Even the creation, with all its wonders is but a veil to those who do not have eyes to see and ears to hear. How can anyone get faith to believe in God or his Son, because faith and faith alone is the key to open our eyes and our ears.
Romans 10:17
So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. That's it....the word of God. All of us who were given ears to hear, heard it by the word of God. Not by science or by archeology or anything that you can see, hear or touch physically....it must come by God's revelation and nothing else.
I think this is the hardest lesson for all of us to learn.....
But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. I Cor. 2:14
God bless,
Dwight
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Michele
You will find a lot in Josh McDowell's book: "The New Evidence that demands a verdict"
Take care.
Johann
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Hi Johann,
Welcome to the forum. You will also find a lot in the book that God wrote: "The Bible."
Dwight
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I have a copy of Josh McDowell's The New Evidence.
McDowell says quote: " You Can Receive Christ Right Now Through Prayer.........The following is a suggested prayer...."
Then the Sinners Prayer is given and we at Bible Truths KNOW how foolish THAT IS.
Christ chooses us. We can not choose HIM because we are carnal and our minds are at enmity with His Spirit. We rely totally on HIM for our salvation and our election to HIS GRACE and MERCY and FAVOUR.
I have seen many good ideas in the writings of Universalists but all too often these ideas carry error's and heresy. The ONLY writings I have found to be consistent with the Scriptures are right here at Bible Truths via Ray Smith. NOTHING compairs with the purity of the revelations that we have in setting us free from doctrinal errors.
Peace be to you
Arcturus :)
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Welcome Johnathan, I see this is your first post! Have you read Bible Truths info yet? Where are you from? Arcturus is right, the only thing closest to the Word is Rays info; we know, we have been a our quest for truth now for about 28 years!!! We did not give up searching for that rare TRUTH and we found it...DONT GIVE UP IN YOUR QUEST FOR T\RUTH EITHER! (seek and you sahll find.)
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Welcome Johann!
Been a Christian for over 35 years. Got blown away when I "found" Ray's site. I haven't been the same since!! :D
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Welcome Johann :D.
I have seen many good ideas in the writings of Universalists but all too often these ideas carry error's and heresy. The ONLY writings I have found to be consistent with the Scriptures are right here at Bible Truths via Ray Smith.
Arcturus, you took the words right out of my mouth ;D. I've done a fair bit of looking over the net, and always end up dumping a site within 10min of reading.
I have a number of good books but they're peppered with heresy, (not that good then :().
God's peace to all.
Andrevan.
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My appologies Andrevan ;D 8)
I agree. For this reason I can not quote anyone even if I find a good idea in amongst some very warped ones because to do so would be to qualify them for others to go and study! I can only feel confident with Ray's teachings and no one elses even though there is some ideas, as you say...peppered with heresy or shall we say cynide... ;D...for the soul and mind....out there! ;D
It shows how scrubbed up we are getting and how sober in mind our Lord is makiing us! HE is coming to us in this new sobriety and cleanness that HE is giving to us!
Peace to you
Arcturus :)
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Hi folks,
Sorry if I'm repeating anything already said as I haven't time to read all comments. I'm with Chris R on this one, all creation is a testimony to God,
- "Because that which is known of God is manifest among them, for God did manifest it to them, for the invisible things of Him from the creation of the world, by the things made being understood, are plainly seen, both His eternal power and Godhead--to their being inexcusable" (Ro 1:20)
"Lift up on high your eyes, And see--who hath prepared these? He who is bringing out by number their host, To all of them by name He calleth, By abundance of strength (And he is strong in power) not one is lacking" (Isa 40:26)
If people cannot see these things it is because they are in darkness mentally and spiritually. They are in such a condition because God has put them there, for now,
- "And, according as they did not approve of having God in knowledge, God gave them up to a disapproved mind, to do the things not seemly" (Ro 1:28)
"so also these now did not believe, that in your kindness they also may find kindness; for God did shut up together the whole to unbelief, that to the whole He might do kindness" (Ro 11:31,32)
Always speak the truth and do not be surprised at the range of negative responses, even bitter enmity towards you for doing such. Speak with humility the simple truths, those given eyes to see and ears to hear will indeed listen. Learn the truth, grow in Christ and NEVER, NEVER be concerned about what to say when facing detractors. Either remain silent or, if the spirit gives you a word, speak THAT word,
"Settle, then, to your hearts, not to meditate beforehand to reply, for I will give to you a mouth and wisdom that all your opposers shall not be able to refute or resist" (Lu 21:14,15)
"for see your calling, brethren, that not many are wise according to the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble; but the foolish things of the world did God choose, that the wise He may put to shame; and the weak things of the world did God choose that He may put to shame the strong; and the base things of the world, and the things despised did God choose, and the things that are not, that the things that are He may make useless--that no flesh may glory before Him; and of Him ye--ye are in Christ Jesus, who became to us from God wisdom, righteousness also, and sanctification, and redemption, that, according as it hath been written, `He who is glorying--in the Lord let him glory.'" (1 Cor 1:26-31)
AMEN! Better to be God's 'fool' than the world's. If Christ, after over 3 years preaching, healing & miracles etc could only gather 120 before the spirit came, the lesson for us is simple, let the spirit do IT'S work. When the spirit plants a word in you, speak it, print it, post it, however you reveal it just do it, but remember, it doesn't mean it will convert, it will certainly convict and it is that which usually brings out the demon in people.
I remember being in 'Growth Group' and the subject drifted onto...... Hell! A word came to me and it just came out, "I don't believe in a burning, fiery hell, there's no such place!" Well it certainly started a fire in that room that night. I said that sheol & hades simply mean 'unseen' and that the lake of fire is symbolic. I did not get a chance to reason with the group as some began shouting in anger, even the pastors wife screamed, "What do you think Jesus died for?", I did answer her though, "To deliver us from death". While most did not take on board what I said, it did cause a stir and some members of the church did want to know more, especially a young German girl who was so fearful for her parents and asked us to pray for them regularly that they be converted and avoid hell. She found these things a comfort. She's returned to Germany now and I hope that God has comforted her heart.
Sorry 'bout that folks, getting carried away there. You'll get used to me :-) Well, hope this helps someone as it came into my heart to post these things.
Love, grace and peace to you all.
Nelson
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Thank you, Nelson,
That was powerful. ;D
Peace to you, Lisa
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Hi Nelson,
Yours is another thought provoking post, the points you raised deserve to be meditated on. I know first hand how discouraging even deflating it can be to give an honest and truthful (scriptural) answer to a person only to see it rejected or ignored, from our limited perspective we might view this as a "waste of time" or feel "what's the use?" Until the Spirit opens one's eyes they are not capable of seeing anything spiritual. Also, are we really able to see how we ourselves are being used by His Spirit? If we do not get instant gratification (agreement) are His Words spoken through us really being wasted? Or will they be remembered at a time of His choosing?
Isa 55:11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.
Going back to the apostles even after walking with the Lord for over 3 years what did they really understand before Pentecost? Not much, in fact next to nothing. We all must remember this when a tinge of disappointment hangs over us when our (spirit directed) words are misunderstood or ignored.
As far as worldly expectations of believers is concerned we should not be consumed by what others think and say about us, sure that is easier said than done but remember;
Joh 15:18 If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you.
The bottom line and inspiration in our journey should be (again sometimes easier said than done);
Mat 11:29 Take my yoke upon you and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
Peace,
Joe
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keep praying and ask God for faith remember ask and it will be given to you ,seek and you will find ,Knock and the door will be opened to you.for everyone who asks recieves ,he who seeks finds,and to him who knocks,the door will be opened.which of you,if his son asks for bread,will give him a stone?or if he asks for a fish will give him a snake?if you,then,though you are evil,know how to give good gifts to your children,how much more will your Father in heaven give good gifts to those who ask him!Faith is a gift ,God looks upon the heart of man if in your heart you desire for unshakable faith then do not worry ,but seek first his kingdom and his righteousness and all these things will be given to you as well.
may the Lord bless you will unshakable faith and knowledge of his will for your life. :)
Gods peace to you Little Rock
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Nelson, thanks for such an inspiring post! Very Cool. (http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t81/skydreamers/clap2.gif)
Gena, I feel like I could have said these exact same words myself!:
In the last couple of years, my emotions and thoughts have been like a roller-coaster ride. High highs and low lows. Why did God do this, why isn't life more like this, why didn't God do it this way, this is too hard, I wish I could go back, this doesn't make any sense, why, why, why........OMG this is so awesome, yes, this is it, this is the truth!, God is so awesome, God knows what He is doing, what a fabulous plan, I can't wait for the All in All....
See what I mean? One thing, well several, staying in the Word, praying to keep "intimacy" w/ God, reading BT, and this forum is helping keep me grounded and at least staying in the middle (not so bi-polar).
Always good to know, we are not alone in our travels to the truth.....
Peace and love to you,
Diana
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Hey Nelson,
I want to thank you for a very spiritual post. Your words echo the truth in my heart perfectly. Many times in the past I have slaved over finding the "correct" way to say something only to give up in frustration because the words would not come. They came not, for a reason, for "I" was searching for them from the physical and not the spiritual; my physical being became frustrated while the spirit of truth merely laughed. :)
However, just like the verse you referenced:
Lu 21:14,15: Settle, then, to your hearts, not to meditate beforehand to reply, for I will give to you a mouth and wisdom that all your opposers shall not be able to refute or resist
I have learned to seek not with my eyes and ears but instead with my heart, and the words do come, just as was promised. For we must never forget that the truth needs us not for support; neither will it be weakened if it falls on deafend ears.
2Cr 13:8 For we can do nothing against the truth, but for the truth.
I particularly liked your inclusion of Romans 1:20, for as many will attest, this is one Sctripture that I speak of regularly. Possibly, because when God first openned my spiritual eyes and ears I began seeing and hearing Him everywhere.
Yet this should not surprise us, for we are told that:
Jer 29:13 ...ye shall seek me, and find [me], when ye shall search for me with all your heart.
I would also like to comment on searching for truth. When Jesus spoke of the woman who lost a peice of silver, he gave particular emphasize to her diligent search.
Luk 15:8 Either what woman having ten pieces of silver, if she lose one piece, doth not light a candle, and sweep the house, and seek diligently till she find [it]?
Should we not similarly sweep all of Gods creation, including that which is seen and that which is not for God's truth. The woman did not wait for her peice of silver to return, and neither should we (IMHO) wait until we "read" another truth on bible-truths or this forum.
We are here only by the mercy of God. We have been given a truth that many are UNABLE to understand, they cannot hear it, because they know not what to listen for, nor can they see it, because likewise, they know not what to see. However, we have been granted a portion of the Spirit of Truth. Should we be satisfied and unconcerned, hoping that God to grant us more understanding when we need it?
I think not; for I believe our gift of truth should be treated in the same manner as the talents in the following parable.
Mat 25:14 ¶ For [the kingdom of heaven is] as a man travelling into a far country, [who] called his own servants, and delivered unto them his goods.
Mat 25:15 And unto one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one; to every man according to his several ability; and straightway took his journey.
Mat 25:16 Then he that had received the five talents went and traded with the same, and made [them] other five talents.
Mat 25:17 And likewise he that [had received] two, he also gained other two.
Mat 25:18 But he that had received one went and digged in the earth, and hid his lord's money.
Mat 25:19 After a long time the lord of those servants cometh, and reckoneth with them.
Mat 25:20 And so he that had received five talents came and brought other five talents, saying, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me five talents: behold, I have gained beside them five talents more.
Mat 25:21 His lord said unto him, Well done, [thou] good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.
Mat 25:22 He also that had received two talents came and said, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me two talents: behold, I have gained two other talents beside them.
Mat 25:23 His lord said unto him, Well done, good and faithful servant; thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.
Mat 25:24 Then he which had received the one talent came and said, Lord, I knew thee that thou art an hard man, reaping where thou hast not sown, and gathering where thou hast not strawed:
Mat 25:25 And I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, [there] thou hast [that is] thine.
Mat 25:26 His lord answered and said unto him, [Thou] wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strawed:
Mat 25:27 Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and [then] at my coming I should have received mine own with usury.
Mat 25:28 Take therefore the talent from him, and give [it] unto him which hath ten talents.
Mat 25:29 For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath.
I see the connection between the talents and the Truth very clearly. The Spirit of Truth can be found in the least likely of places. If it were easy to find, why then would we need to search? But there is a cavet here. We must not bury what we have learned like the servant who was given just one talent; no, rather we must use the truth that we have been given in order to gain truth. Is this not what Brother Ray himself is doing? Is it merely chance that Ray was the fortunate one amongst us? I think not?
We should not shut ourselves off from anyone or anything spiritually, "Because that which is known of God is manifest among them, for God did manifest it to them, for the invisible things of Him from the creation of the world, by the things made being understood, are plainly seen, both His eternal power and Godhead--to their being inexcusable" (Ro 1:20)
This is not to say that we should believe everything, but rather we should search diligently for the truth and testing the spirits constantly, just as John instructed.
1Jo 4:1 Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.
These are just my thoughts as inspired by Nelsons post! :)
Comments are welcome,
Love to all in Christ,
Darren
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The best proof I believe is THE HOLY SPIRIT, THE PENTECOSTAL HOLY SPIRIT. John 16:13 says - Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. There are so many different interpretations. Get the Holy Spirit, and I believe you'll get THE TRUTH. Jesus said in LUKE 11:13 - If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?
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Hey Michelle,
I understand your frustrations completely. With so many people telling you the sky is red it's hard to believe that it's blue even when it's right there in front of you.
My advice is 1.patience, 2.persistance and most of all 3.prayer.
1.Understand that God will give you understanding as He sees you are ready for it.
2.Continue to study His Word diligently, all the answers are there.
3.Humbly ask for the truth to be revealed and it will. God has promised that if you seek you will find!
In His Grace,
jackson