bible-truths.com/forums
=> General Discussions => Topic started by: Dennis Vogel on January 28, 2008, 09:48:17 PM
-
In the past few days I have notified two persons that they should either give Ray or BT credit for the Tithing article or remove the article from their sites. They both removed the articles (one of them made it look like it was his article).
There a dozens of others plagiarising Ray's work and putting their own name on his work. Some simply do not give Ray or BT credit. While most give credit to Ray.
Would some of you like to help me find the sites that do not give proper credit or put their name on Ray's work?
I don't want anyone contacting them. I think it would be better if I (the webmaster) contacted them.
Simply find those who are borrowing Ray's material and post the link and (important) contact information in this thread.
If you cannot find any contact information, post the link anyway and I'll try and find it on whois.org.
Ignore posts on other forums as I do not consider them plagiarism.
Here's how to search:
Go to one of Ray's articles on bible-truths.com and find some text written by Ray. Do use text that mentions BT or Ray as some of these people remove those references.
Example from the tithing paper: "that of all the things that God will first give to Jacob"
Copy text from a BT article and go to Google.com and search for the text.
Important: Surround the text with quotes as shown above.
Google will most likely show only the BT Article.
But look for this text below Google's link to BT and click on "repeat the search with the omitted results included."
In order to show you the most relevant results, we have omitted some entries very similar to the 1 already displayed.
If you like, you can repeat the search with the omitted results included[/u].
This will show all the other links.
Then start going through them one at a time.
Pick an article and let us know.
Thanks,
Dennis
-
Here's an example of someone putting their name on Ray's work: http://www.mumento.de/tithe.htm (http://www.mumento.de/tithe.htm)
-
Hi Dennis,
What about blogs? Like this one on blogspot:
http://askthechaplain.blogspot.com/2008/01/who-were-scribes-and-pharisees.html (http://askthechaplain.blogspot.com/2008/01/who-were-scribes-and-pharisees.html)
This was just put up this month...
Bobby
-
I know it's hard. Go ahead and ask him to give credit to Ray and BT.
In some cases you will need to join a forum just to contact the (false?) author.
The problem is some were saying Ray did not author the tithing article because they found it posted on another site.
We very much want these messages preached and the message is more important than anything, but when these sites make others question who wrote it, it harms everyone and takes away from the message.
Try to make sure you do not come across harsh when dealing with these people. For some it's just an oversite.
Dennis
-
Dennis,
In the past I have come across some "very familiar" ::) writings.
Thanks, now I know what to do when I find them :)
Matt
-
Plagiarism sucks! I found my poem "Jesus Is Profitable" posted on some site, and they didn't even give credit to me. :(
If I find any, I'll let you know, Dennis.
-
WOW! That is horrible!
I did use some of rays material in one of my blogs but i made sure to give him proper credit.
I have also used some of his points in debates with other christians on other forums but for the most part i have made sure to give him credit and if i ever havn't, it is due to honost error and forgetfullness.
I guess i can be on the look out, if it will help at all.
God bless,
Alex
-
This is found on the search engines.
http://www.caprockbiblestudy.com/wordpress/Media/PDF/TithingisUnscripturalPartI.pdf
This is the cached link
http://209.85.173.104/custom?q=cache:WBuzxkqeDH8J:www.caprockbiblestudy.com/+Tithing+is+Unscriptural+Under+the+New+Testament&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=7&gl=us
-
They took this off once but it appears it is back.
This is found on the search engines.
http://www.caprockbiblestudy.com/wordpress/Media/PDF/TithingisUnscripturalPartI.pdf
This is the cached link
http://209.85.173.104/custom?q=cache:WBuzxkqeDH8J:www.caprockbiblestudy.com/+Tithing+is+Unscriptural+Under+the+New+Testament&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=7&gl=us
-
Hi Dennis,
I'm not sure, but this seemed rather familiar:
http://www.goodnewsaboutgod.com/studies/forever2.htm (http://www.goodnewsaboutgod.com/studies/forever2.htm)
God bless you,
Eirik
-
Hi Dennis,
I'm not sure, but this seemed rather familiar:
http://www.goodnewsaboutgod.com/studies/forever2.htm (http://www.goodnewsaboutgod.com/studies/forever2.htm)
God bless you,
Eirik
Yes it does. I'll look into it. Thanks.
-
interesting, i sometimes cut and paste some of rays stuff, i put his name on the bottom.
got banned one time for posting from a ""universal"" site.
check this out: someone said about ray:
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawnessy
Who is L. Ray Smith?
A new cult leader that's taken quite a following on the internet. He has similar doctrine to Charles Taze Russell, founder of Jehovah Witness, Joseph Smith, founder of Mormon or Latter Day Saints, Mary Baker Eddy, founder of Christian Science and Sun Young Moon the founder of the Unification Church. They don't believe in hell or free will, and believe that the 'beast' of Revelation is us, personally (human beings who don't believe God). He's quite dangerous because he's a master at twisting scripture.
find that quite humourous.
God bless all
chuckt
-
:D
Good find Chuck, I needed a laugh today.
Thanks,
Joe
-
Here is what Robin A. Brace says about Ray : Mr Smith appears to accept Annihilationism (that is, that people will not remain in Hell forever but will simply be destroyed).
ANYONE who takes the time to READ what Ray teaches, KNOWS that this is NOT what Ray thinks, teaches or even says ANYWHERE! Ray teaches what the Word of God says: that the lost will be found and ALL will be SAVED. 8)
The comment from Brace is dated 2006 and he still has not updated his web page! :D
-
It just amazes me how quick people are to accept the words of man alone, and how careless some people are with the word of God.
Since being here, this is the first time in my life I have ever felt peace about God. :)
Matt
-
I have a question regarding plagiarising Ray's writing and research...I was thinking of developing a website using the bible verses that Ray's used in the Fundamental Truths bible study. I did not want to use any of his commentary just the subtitles: (7 Fundamental Truths, God Does Not Lie, etc.). Would I just need to place where I got the subtitles in my own commentary? Really, I just need to know how to reference the info that I am using. Like I said, I do not want to copy Ray's commentary just the bible verses he uses and well as subtitles. Thanks
-
I have a question regarding plagiarising Ray's writing and research...I was thinking of developing a website using the bible verses that Ray's used in the Fundamental Truths bible study. I did not want to use any of his commentary just the subtitles: (7 Fundamental Truths, God Does Not Lie, etc.). Would I just need to place where I got the subtitles in my own commentary? Really, I just need to know how to reference the info that I am using. Like I said, I do not want to copy Ray's commentary just the bible verses he uses and well as subtitles. Thanks
Well, I'm not a mod or anything; but from I understand, they said as long as you give Ray credit, it's fine. You're free to use whatever, title, or even the entire teaching-just don't try to play it off as your own work.
Mods correct me if I'm wrong. ;p
-Sorin
-
"Ray Danger" sounds like a fantastic idea for a comic book. ;)
His first adventure can be Understanding the Theory that is Embodied in the Terminology.
-
Mods correct me if I'm wrong. ;p
-Sorin
No correction required! ;)
Peace,
Joe
-
Hello Dennis, Joe, Sorin, Arcturus and others,
Yes I concur, Plagiarism is a bad thing, whenever anyone does it, my biggest pet peeve is when a Critic of Ray misquotes him, I found some of the same thing that Arcturus spoke of, that Ray teaches Annihilationism like the JW's, I found that off of Wikipedia, next to his Video's on Repentance. Sad to say, I'm not very proficient in looking around the internet Universe in order to find these Religious Pirates. The ultimate credit of course for what we learn from Ray goes to Gods' Holy Spirit, which is guiding and revealing these truths to him. However, anything I can do to find these culprits, I'll be happy to do. Insofar as misquoting Ray, the least these so-called know it all Bible experts could do is read his material and quote him accurately, before spewing forth their spiritual venom. By deliberately misquoting him they mimic their Father(John.8:44), its' like the Pharisees, all over again. I can't stand Liars and Phonies, especially the Religious ones. I guess this is to be expected, The World Loves its' Own, these Theological Leeches are like a Tag Team, like expressed in some of his E-mails.
Your Brother in Christ, Samson.
-
I found some of the same thing that Arcturus spoke of, that Ray teaches Annihilationism like the JW's, I found that off of Wikipedia, next to his Video's on Repentance.
What is the link you are talking about here?
Craig
-
Hello Craig,
Here is the Link that you requested: www.ukapologeticsindex.net; From, What is your Opinion of the Ministry of L Ray smith, Is he Armstrongist, Paragraph 4," Mr. Smith appears to accept Annihilationism". I was browsing around Wikipedia one day and stumbled upon this inaccurate quote about Rays beliefs.
Your Brother in christ, Samson.
-
Hello Craig,
Here is the Link that you requested: www.ukapologeticsindex.net; From, What is your Opinion of the Ministry of L Ray smith, Is he Armstrongist, Paragraph 4," Mr. Smith appears to accept Annihilationism". I was browsing around Wikipedia one day and stumbled upon this inaccurate quote about Rays beliefs.
Your Brother in christ, Samson.
Hi Samson,
I think everyone here knows that Ray does not teach annihilation-however, annihilation is infinitely more merciful than the hell doctrine.
I'd rather God annihilated the masses, instead of torturing them alive 'forever and ever'....
I think christianity's problem with annihilation is they don't want them to get off that easy, they want them burned alive, tormented night and day for eternity, so they can watch them on their big screen HD TV's in heaven whilst eating popcorn and yelling at the screen 'I told you so! I told you so!".
Especially the Calvinists. Like that guy, or girl that used to post on here all the time Andreas or whatever. That was one of the most annoying posters, but that one guy, with his preacher, were the worst.
He had the nerve to post on here something like: " oh dear, these people don't know that scripture should be read only in context" ::)
or something like that... were'd he learn that bit of heresy, at the University of Man-Made Doctrines?
Sorry about the rant.
-Sorin
-
Hey Sorin,
No need to apologize about the rant, I'm definitely guilty of that myself. As a former JW, I felt at one time that Annihilation was more merciful, hence my attraction to that Religion back in 1981, of course I eventually discovered the folly in that interpretation approximately 12-15 months, prior to my arrival here. I chose(Gods' Will for me) to join this Site, because I felt it best exemplified the "Universalist" position, although Ray doesn't like to use that term for us. Although I browse around at times, I have no desire to join or have joined any other religious Site, including the so-called Universalist ones. However, its' apparent to me that God led me to this Site after doing much reading and researching on the subject of Eventual Salvation for All, prior to my arrival. The thought of those self-righteous "Christians" gloating from Heaven eating popcorn as they watch everyone else suffer eternally is disturbing and arrogant on their part. If we don't get humbled in this life by our trials and sufferings, we will sooner or later. Their was a song, years ago entitled---- LORD ITS' HARD TO BE HUMBLE, their's some truth to that, thats' probably why we need God to do it for us or have someone else to Humble us. In the past, I've been humbled many times and I know that I needed it and deserved it.
Now I'm ranting, this post is supposed to be about Plagiarism, Sorry Everyone.
Your Brother in Christ, Samson.
-
Hey dennis this has got to be a blatent example of plagiarism. It is taken from the LOF series installment XVI part C. The origin of endless punishment. http://www.askelm.com/doctrine/d980927.htm
It's sad when people steal to glorify themselves.
-
There's a universal salvation group on myspace that have quoted Rays work and encouraged people to read this site. I had a look through some of their posts many months ago, there didn't seem to be any plagiarism as such, just credited quotes here and there. They all seemed to be in agreement apart from one Catholic member, a young man in some ministry college babbling on about hermeneutics and exegeses etc. I'll see if I can find the link again and post it.
-
Hey dennis this has got to be a blatent example of plagiarism. It is taken from the LOF series installment XVI part C. The origin of endless punishment. http://www.askelm.com/doctrine/d980927.htm
It's sad when people steal to glorify themselves.
Probably not. I'm pretty sure Ray knows/knew Ernest L. Martin.
BTW, Ray has never stated every idea on BT is original. Of course others have known some of these truths before we started BT.
But I believe Ray is breaking new ground (at least for this generation).
Dennis
-
Hello Craig,
Here is the Link that you requested: www.ukapologeticsindex.net; From, What is your Opinion of the Ministry of L Ray smith, Is he Armstrongist, Paragraph 4," Mr. Smith appears to accept Annihilationism". I was browsing around Wikipedia one day and stumbled upon this inaccurate quote about Rays beliefs.
Your Brother in christ, Samson.
Hi Samson,
I think everyone here knows that Ray does not teach annihilation-however, annihilation is infinitely more merciful than the hell doctrine.
I'd rather God annihilated the masses, instead of torturing them alive 'forever and ever'....
I think christianity's problem with annihilation is they don't want them to get off that easy, they want them burned alive, tormented night and day for eternity, so they can watch them on their big screen HD TV's in heaven whilst eating popcorn and yelling at the screen 'I told you so! I told you so!".
Especially the Calvinists. Like that guy, or girl that used to post on here all the time Andreas or whatever. That was one of the most annoying posters, but that one guy, with his preacher, were the worst.
He had the nerve to post on here something like: " oh dear, these people don't know that scripture should be read only in context" ::)
or something like that... were'd he learn that bit of heresy, at the University of Man-Made Doctrines?
Sorry about the rant.
-Sorin
A couple of years ago I watched some stuff on Google by David Asscherick, from a SDA ministry. They seem to be very keen on this annihilation doctrine.
-
Hey dennis this has got to be a blatent example of plagiarism. It is taken from the LOF series installment XVI part C. The origin of endless punishment. http://www.askelm.com/doctrine/d980927.htm
It's sad when people steal to glorify themselves.
I asked Ray to write a few words about Dr Martin.
Denny:
I knew Dr. Ernest Martin since 1967 (that's over 40 years). The last time we studied together was back in 1982, I believe, when he flew out from California to Mobile where I lived at the time and we spent a long weekend together. We were both familiar with the Concordant Publishing Concern and had agreed on certain things they taught: Namely Universal Reconciliation. And so I have been familiar with his work and research for a long time. Some things Dr. Martin did not see. He felt the "Lake of Fire" would be a literal place in the future in Palestine. He also did not comprehend the Sovereignty of God and man's lack of a free will. That is until a few months before he died. Shortly after he died a friend who knew him well up in Portland, Oregon informed me that Dr. Martin came to realize that man absolutely did not have a free will and that God is totally Sovereign. I was very glad to hear that. I gave Dr. Martin credit for some of my outline on "The Cano nization of the Scriptures" which I taught at our last Conference, if some of you remember. So he learned some things before I did, and I learned some things before he did. Shortly after his death I was asked by the man left in charge of his work if I would care to help take over the work of Dr. Martin. I graciously declined. We were not agreed everything, that's for sure, but even more, we have our hands full with bible-truths.com.
God be with you,
Ray
-
I just read that article by Dr. Martin concerning the church. Very good article but definitatly not plagerized from Ray. I saw a few holes in his teachings that I don't believe Ray would agree with. Furthur, I checked the web page (run by others now) and it appears that he doesn't believe in judgement as being chastizement. Unless I misread he even refers to judement as being a time when all are rewarded due to Christ's sacrifice. I think it's his work. Now I'm not sure. But according to what I read, Christ took an earthly punishment for all man's sins and so nobody will have to suffer for sin in the next life. All payment of sin takes place in the physical life eventually ending in death. I did'nt read much more after that.