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=> General Discussions => Topic started by: doug on June 05, 2012, 02:12:12 AM
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Ahhh, now here is a topic that stirs the emotions and consequently considerable debate and arguing even to the point of fist a cuffs in some highly disgruntled people both in the secular and religious worlds. But, I do believe not so much with the spirit filled individual and I do consider myself as living proof of that.
I am going to ramble on with Ray's answer to the question of "whether God would want us to do these things" asked by the questioner as I also at this time in my spirit filled life, as Ray quoted, "personally have no desire to shoot a deer."
To put it mildly, by the time I could even walk, I was what you would call a "nature boy". I have always been the one to be in God's great outdoors. "Once upon a time" while going through another one of God's sever testing trials in my adult life, I decided that what I needed was much distraction from my grief (and pity party) so I persued what I would consider "therapy" for my soul. I enrolled in a two year college to study my lifelong interest in the outdoors and received an associate degree in applied science (with honors... yee haw!) in the field of wildlife management. Through internships and field work I learned much knowledge in game animals, their habitat, and every sort of hunting and mgt. technique. I was at that time a passionate hunter. If it moved.... I would shoot it. I killed many deer with a bow and arrow, rifle & shotgun; shot over 2 dozen wild turkeys, and many more squirrels, rabbits, quail, grouse, rabbits, mourning doves, crows, groundhogs etc.; mostly to eat but some (crow & groundhogs) for "sport".
What Ray had addressed to that questioner was succinctly put into words that was the whole compilation of 2 yrs. of wildlife mgt. (profound!). And that is... as a wildlife officer, what they were to tell the public was essentially what Ray stated... "Deer populations would cause starvation within their herds if they were not managed down to lower numbers." That's it! That's the honest truth!
But as the Lord was working with me as I got older, I had less and less desire to "kill" a game animal. I especially started to disdain the idea of anyone ever being a "trophy" hunter. I then would stock up my freezer and share what I had "harvested" with family, but few "city folk" could stomach the idea of eating wild game and now I could never hunt just for sport, so there came a time as the questioner had said "I watched the deer go right by my stand, and did not have the heart to take one." Yes, if I were ever to be destitute, I would never even hesitate to shoot a squirrel and eat it as I have literally hundreds of times before. The only other person who would share a meal of wild turkey or venison, or even a grouse or rabbit would be my dear old mom who was raised on a farm in Texas and ate their own livestock along with the barbecued wild boar, spanish goat, and yes, even rattlesnake along with all the fish and bullfrogs they could catch in their livestock "tanks".
Wow, have times changed! We are a modern society in this day and age and most are repulsed at the thought of how and where their food (especially meat) comes from.
Just wanted to share some about this neat little subject that Craig so generously shared with us.
Do any of you guys or gals have a similar attitude for the abstinence of hunting?
doug
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I don't know what I would do.
Yes, if I were ever to be destitute, I would never even hesitate to shoot a squirrel and eat it as I have literally hundreds of times before.
~Doug
Two things I'm learning to embrace, now that I understand what "free will" is, or actually, what it is not:
1. Never say never. (I don't think I'd eat the squirrel if it had rabies. Would you?)
2. If you want to make God laugh, tell Him your plans. Oh, He LOVES that! ;D
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p.s. Can you "hunt" fish? (I might be able to do that, but I'd def. need someone else to descale and gut it for me. That grosses me out. ;D)
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I've never been a hunter, though I've caught a few fish. I take a slightly different tack. I tend to think it can be a valuable experience for a young person (and a 'city' person) to take not just wildlife, but domesticated animals at least once IF they are going to eat meat at all. It just seems fair to me that we don't always relegate the 'dirty work' to paid 'servants'. I tend to think there is also a moral benefit and lessons to be learned for meat-eaters to kill their own meat.
That said, I do find a reluctance to kill animals admirable, and the killing of animals for food only expedient.
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Hey Gina --- has anyone ever told you that you can get quite nit-picky? (smiling broadly!)
In my part of the woods the squirrels aren't rabid!! They've got plenty of space and scores of acorns to munch on! :)
Now... a raccoon, skunk or bat.... welllll... not so much! :P
Also, if my stomach was a growlin' that would be enough cause for me to make "squirrel gravey & dumplin's" on the spot!!
Oh yeah, I can see now that you are the shusi on daddies yacht type of gal. Well... my daddy always taught me.... if you catch em.... then you hav ta clean em." :o
But then... if you were my first date.... I wouldn't be that chauvinistic! ;)
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Even us sweet, delicate little dew drops, Dave? ;D ;)
What if it were a little, starving girl or boy who needed to eat and the only thing that was being offered them was meat? Should they, in all fairness, have to kill that animal?
"The LORD God made clothes from animal skins." Beginning of Genesis.
I grant you, God made those skins indirectly by (1) causing Adam and Eve to kill the animals (though, they were adults for sure by then), or, God made those skins indirectly by causing another animal to hunt to kill. We don't know, do we?
Kind of like, we, here in this day and age, weren't "hands-on" in the sacrifice of Jesus, but God doesn't mind at all that we gladly accept that sacrifice and eat and drink Him, still.
So...there. :P ;)
Doug, you nailed it when you said this is a topic ripe for debate. But it's not rife with endless possibilities, so seeing how this picture will end as it has numerous times before, I'm gonna go watch a chick flick. ;D
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Hey Gina --- has anyone ever told you that you can get quite nit-picky? (smiling broadly!)
In my part of the woods the squirrels aren't rabid!! They've got plenty of space and scores of acorns to munch on! :)
Now... a raccoon, skunk or bat.... welllll... not so much! :P
Also, if my stomach was a growlin' that would be enough cause for me to make "squirrel gravey & dumplin's" on the spot!!
Oh yeah, I can see now that you are the shusi on daddies yacht type of gal. Well... my daddy always taught me.... if you catch em.... then you hav ta clean em." :o
But then... if you were my first date.... I wouldn't be that chauvinistic! ;)
haha!! LOLOL!! Doug, you're a trip! haha. I love your sense of humor!! Honest to God.
As to your first point (sushi is spelled s-u-s-h-i) ;D: Sticks and stones, sticks and stones... lol
And as to your second point: That almost sounded prophetic, but then I gave it some more thought and said to myself... Uh-uh.
hehe
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And keep in mind, Ray only said: "I personally have no desire to shoot a deer, however."
That does not mean that he would not shoot the deer if he had no other options and was starving. Or, for that matter, shoot something else. "A statement of fact is not a statement of limitation." (Who said that?)
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"A statement of fact is not a statement of limitation."
I always loved it when he said that. :)
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:)
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Even us sweet, delicate little dew drops, Dave? ;D ;)
What if it were a little, starving girl or boy who needed to eat and the only thing that was being offered them was meat? Should they, in all fairness, have to kill that animal?
No, Gina. I've had enough of the letter. If it could make a person righteous, it would have done so already.
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Never hunted (always wanted to), but used to fish pretty regularly.
Not to stray off topic too much.. but I was speaking with someone about all the crazy things happening lately (flesh eating diseases, man eating another guy's face in miami, etc) and he was mentioning how the animals are acting 'strange' as well. Specifically, the deer rut has been 'off' for awhile.
Noticed anything like that?
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Never hunted either but grateful to those that do:
http://www.usroads.com/journals/rmj/9705/rm970503.htm (http://www.usroads.com/journals/rmj/9705/rm970503.htm)
Too many deer in the US.
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Never hunted (always wanted to), but used to fish pretty regularly.
Not to stray off topic too much.. but I was speaking with someone about all the crazy things happening lately (flesh eating diseases, man eating another guy's face in miami, etc) and he was mentioning how the animals are acting 'strange' as well. Specifically, the deer rut has been 'off' for awhile.
Noticed anything like that?
The guy that ate another guy's face off was allegedly under the influence of bath salts (and I don't mean Epsom Salts). According to news reports, ingesting/smoking bath salts is like taking the worst of all the effects of crack cocaine, meth, Ecstacy, PCP ("green"), and LCD combined(!). ER's are apparently seeing a lot of problems associated with its use among youths. That's scary.
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I have nothing against hunting or fishing. But I do hunt and fish with the same weapon. Its called a menu. 8)
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We are a modern society in this day and age and most are repulsed at the thought of how and where their food (especially meat) comes from.
Modern has nothing to do with it. Thankfully cattle farms are still around and a way of life.
So let them eat their veggies. Probably the same people who wear a helmet while they ride a bicycle. If we give them enough head they'll swear an ear of corn has feelings.
I grew up bloody like you’re talking about. Quail, dove, turkey, deer, squirrel, lots of fish. One day I just walked away. Except for the fishing. If I get on a good bed it’s a good day. If I just sit and listen to the water lap all day in the quiet, it’s a good day.
Nowadays I’m the guy stopping traffic to pick up the turtle in the middle of the road and moving it to the road side ditch.
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For you "sportsmen" out there....
Do you know what the Indian word for vegetarian is?
'lousy hunter'
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The guy that ate another guy's face off was allegedly under the influence of bath salts
Sorry, Gina, you got that one wrong. He was a Zombie. The Zombipocalypse is upon us!!!
Lewis
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The guy that ate another guy's face off was allegedly under the influence of bath salts (and I don't mean Epsom Salts). According to news reports, ingesting/smoking bath salts is like taking the worst of all the effects of crack cocaine, meth, Ecstacy, PCP ("green"), and LCD combined(!). ER's are apparently seeing a lot of problems associated with its use among youths. That's scary.
They could probably use that to make a pretty powerful anti-drug advertisement.. "Don't do this stuff, or you'll eat your friend's face off"
Though I guess it's useful if you're wanting to go human hunting...............
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Hunting game animals for food has been a means to supply a person and his family with meat throughout history. In modern times there is no need for a person to learn hunting skills to kill his own meat with a grocery story on every corner. People are so disconnected with the the process that meat goes through to get in those neat wrapped packages at the grocery store. A person that butches his own meat would probably take greater care with the animal then what goes on in animal slaughter houses, but it's easy to turn a blind eye to that. Either way an animals life is given to supply us with the animal protein we need.
Wild game remains one of the few sources of organic meat that exists today, also you know what has been done to what you're eating. My husband is an ardent hunter and has been since he was a boy. I think growing up around people who hunt and preparing there on meat (domestic or game), helps you accept the practice. But hunting is not the easy or cheap way to get meat, it is a skill and requires a lot of time and effort to do it right and I have no objection to it done that way.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
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Dave hey! - I can see what you are saying when you recommend taking part in the killing and cleaning process when they are youngsters. I believe that experience would reduce the amount of meat eaters drastically! If a person had to at least once kill and clean their own animal it would give them a whole lot more appreciation of the hamburger they are biting into. My first deer, and even my first wild turkey was quite and experience for me. I couldn't stop from gagging as I was "gutting" it. Not a smell that one is used to every day! Kind of makes you loose your appetite for awhile. Presently you can see why there is such an uproar with the "pink slime" issue. People are finding out what they have been eating!
Hudson buddy! It wouldn't cost you anything to hunt on my "hundred acre wood". The coyotes have begun to move in but I believe pooh bear has hid a few wild turkeys! And I don't know what you do at your work, but if you come across any old DC9s from the 60's, stay clear of them because I put the wings on alot of those babies during the couple years that I worked for Douglas Aircraft in Long Beach, CA. I don't know if I did such a good job at assembling and you wouldn't want to trust my rivet job! (just kiddin' bro!). And another thing... please don't ask me to come down to go zip lining across or swim in any of your murky GA rivers. Too many nasties lurking in there! I value my limbs! But if you want to meet me on top of Springer or Blood Mtn... I'll be there!
JFK and George - I believe you guys have the best attitude about being "beefeaters"! With menu in hand at a nice air conditioned restaurant... the OutBack would do... I'll eat a nice rare slab of T-bone anyday! And yeah, the red wine would top it off great! But wait, with steak, I think I would prefer an iced mug of their best tap!
Gina - Now see.... there you go again with being nit-picky! Shoeshi susi suski susi shusi sushi, whatever! The raw little fishies rolled up into wraps. Grammatical errors... tsk, tsk! ;D "I'm not erudite. you most certainly got the gist of my message... didn't you! now didn't you! Of course you did." (Ray paraphrased) LOL Ray and I would have hit it off great! Remember that great one liner by Tom Selleck from Quigley Down Under... "I said I had no use for it... that doesn't mean I didn't know how to use it." Oh, I'm sorry, I forgot that you are not a guy... that's a guy's flick... not a chick flick! :'(
Now... although Laguna Beach probably does offer some real nice fishing... I suppose I could "force" myself to eat those dainty raw thingies.... as long as there weren't any of those diced up tuff ole octopus tentacles! I am so happy that you declined (did I hint at a suggestion? 8) )the supposed prophesy! That would be an awfully expensive first date destination for a po boy like me! Now that you told me that you deemed it not to come true... I'm not a false prophet now... am I? :(
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Dear Doug, ;D
Try not to assume so much.
"Prophetic" isn't necessarily something that is a prediction of future events or deemed to come true:
Prophecy is a process in which one or more messages that have been communicated to a prophet are then communicated to others. Such messages typically involve divine inspiration, interpretation, or revelation of conditioned events to come (cf. divine knowledge) as well as testimonies or repeated revelations that the world is divine.[citation needed] The process of prophecy especially involves reciprocal communication of the prophet with the (divine) source of the messages.
Various concepts of prophecy are found throughout all of the world's religions and cults. To a certain degree prophecy can be an integral concept within any religion or cult. The term has found deep usage in two of the world's largest religious groups, Christianity and Islam, along with many others.
Source: Wikipedia
And I don't eat sushi. ;D You assumed that. But that's okay! I'm glad you're here. I don't mind educating you. ;)
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Hi all,
Gone fishing, maybe in the weekend.
We enjoy fishing, and kill the fish as quickly and painless as possible. We first cut the throat and break the neck immediately after. This is what I've learned from fishermen. If it's big fish a blow to the head with a big wooden club will make it pass out. It may be brutal, but that's why we should be careful to not make it worse than it is. I was fishing from a quay once and next to me was a tourist. He didn't bring a knife so he just let the fish die by suffocation. Not a very good way. I offered him to borrow my knife, but he didn't know how to use it. He tried to stab the fish to death and missed most of the time. I showed him how it's supposed to be done, and he got it. There are many who don't care about animal suffering, which is terrible. That's why I'm glad that we have an agency which monitors hunting and fishing, and report serious offenses to the police.
Never hunted or fired a gun (except water gun).
God bless you,
Eirik
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I got back from Oregon last week. I caught this one. 7 1/2 feet long and over 200lbs. And that's no fish story.
(http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd316/parsonssc/IMG_1302.jpg)
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Dinner at your house tomorrow. That is a lot of filet's.
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Hudson buddy! It wouldn't cost you anything to hunt on my "hundred acre wood". The coyotes have begun to move in but I believe pooh bear has hid a few wild turkeys! And I don't know what you do at your work, but if you come across any old DC9s from the 60's, stay clear of them because I put the wings on alot of those babies during the couple years that I worked for Douglas Aircraft in Long Beach, CA. I don't know if I did such a good job at assembling and you wouldn't want to trust my rivet job! (just kiddin' bro!). And another thing... please don't ask me to come down to go zip lining across or swim in any of your murky GA rivers. Too many nasties lurking in there! I value my limbs! But if you want to meet me on top of Springer or Blood Mtn... I'll be there!
Hunting some coyotes sounds fun.. They ate our goats (our 'lawnmowers'), so some payback would be nice!
Speaking of the DC9, I haven't flown on one(yet). Currently at AirTran we use Boeing 737's and 717's, but as we migrate everything into Southwest's system we'll be getting rid of the 717's (Southwest wants an all 737 fleet). Ironically, we'll be selling the 717's to our biggest rival, Delta.
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That is huge! That's two of me. I bet that was a major thrill. Great picture, BTW. Wow, 200 lbs. wiggling around like that. That must have taken a tremendous amount of strength to reel that sucker in! Good on you!
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I got back from Oregon last week. I caught this one. 7 1/2 feet long and over 200lbs. And that's no fish story.
Craig, were you on the Columbia River? Sturgeon sure have weird looking mouths. :D
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Craig - Hmmmm..... as a wildlife guy I can smell something veeerly fishie about your "story"!
Let's see..... according to the Oregon Department of Fish and Wildlife:
The heaviest warm water fish was a striped bass at 68 lbs. from The Umpqua River in 1973.
The heaviest cold water fish was a chinook salmon at 83lbs. from the same river in 1910.
And it is unlawful to remove an oversize sturgeon (54 inches) from the water. So if that is a 71/2 foot, 200 pound sturgeon.... well, you had better have all the evidence disposed of by now!! (unless of course it was a catch and release. ::) )
"Don't tell fish stories where the people know you, but particularly, don't tell them where they know the fish". Mark Twain
doug
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Willamette River, oversize sturgeon and it is catch and release. Size is estimated by length and girth of the fish. Why was that
fishie? Nobody said I kept it or ate it. ???
Craig
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Willamette River, oversize sturgeon and it is catch and release. Size is estimated by length and girth of the fish. Why was that
fishie? Nobody said I kept it or ate it. ???
Craig
Thanks Craig.... you took all of the mystery and speculation out of it.
I would have liked to have been with you when you caught that monster fish!
doug
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I don't think I'd want to eat a sturgeon anyhow! lol