bible-truths.com/forums
=> General Discussions => Topic started by: Deborah-Leigh on June 17, 2007, 08:13:28 AM
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Email to Ray
No problem ray. I can see from your attitude that the Bible has not produced a mature Christian, which is why your so far off on the scriptures. Everyone wants to say "God showed me these things", RATHER than follow Gods method for learning:
2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
A sincere and mature Christian can discuss things, but you are obviously a babe.
Have fun decieving people,
Sincerely,
Paul
They would all just shrivel up and DIE, if they couldn't get the last word in, Readers. If I were to ask him for the three Scriptures to his three unscriptural lies again, he would write me back again, and again. Getting the last word in, is his proof that he is right and I am wrong. Ya see, "I couldn't answer him," therefore he shut my mouth and proved me wrong. Oh the joys of the carnal mind to the carnal-minded. This guy just LOVES the pagan doctrines of Christendom, but oh how he despises the Word of God.
Ray
This is an important discernment that Ray shows his readers.
How often do we encounter the questions and answers that continue regardless of the wisdom knowledge and understanding offered to detractors and those who are non so blind as them who will not see.
Sometimes we can get into endless genealogies and myths that lead no where and here Ray picks the trend and shuts the opportunity to this detractor who is unteachable.
I appreciated what Ray highlights here. ;D 8)
Haven't you met those types who no matter what you say or show them they still want to be right!? ;D
Peace be to you
Arcturus :)
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Yes I have met such people. Paul admits he's a follower of Peter Ruckman. I have read some of Ruckman's books and articles myself and was nearly swayed by him, if it were not for his repeated arrogance and outright lies. 'By their fruit ye shall know them'. (Not that I was much better; I gave up Ruckman and followed the teaching of Calvin!).
Did you notice in Paul's first e-mail he implied that Ray did not follow the 'whole councel of God'? The Apostle Paul taught the whole councel of God, and where did he mention even once the belief of eternal torture in hell?
But as far as this guy's ears go, Ray may as well have replied to him in Chinese.
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;D :D good one Robert! Quite so!
By their fruits hey? And who has the character and nature to be the accuser of the brethren??? Many accusations are covered by innuendo and inference but are just as cowardly and spiteful! I agree with you!
How often supposition and accusation is covered by a friendly smile of feighned affection that is actually quite disgusting to those who have eyes to see. ;D
Peace be to you
Arcturus :)
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Arcturus, I see what you mean and I agree. ;D
God is right there with Ray and put in his head what to say.
It's all God!!!
Iris
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B-E-A-U-T-I-F-U-L-L-Y put Iris. :D Those who are Ray's students will know Ray is our Teacher sent by Christ. Those who are not learning and are accusing Ray are not his students or HIS who hear and know HIS voice and Truth.
Woe to the accusers who will face the MASTER and KING who sent Ray!
Peace to you
Arcturus :)
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Amen Arcturus,
For:
Mat 25:45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did [it] not to one of the least of these, ye did [it] not to me.
Great thread! :)
Love to you in Christ,
Darren
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God is right there with Ray and put in his head what to say.
Hey, that rhymes! ;D ;D ;D
Matt
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Matt,, ;D ;D ;D
(I think you are a big kid at heart!!)
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Email to Ray
No problem ray. I can see from your attitude that the Bible has not produced a mature Christian, which is why your so far off on the scriptures. Everyone wants to say "God showed me these things", RATHER than follow Gods method for learning:
2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
A sincere and mature Christian can discuss things, but you are obviously a babe.
Have fun decieving people,
Sincerely,
Paul
They would all just shrivel up and DIE, if they couldn't get the last word in, Readers. If I were to ask him for the three Scriptures to his three unscriptural lies again, he would write me back again, and again. Getting the last word in, is his proof that he is right and I am wrong. Ya see, "I couldn't answer him," therefore he shut my mouth and proved me wrong. Oh the joys of the carnal mind to the carnal-minded. This guy just LOVES the pagan doctrines of Christendom, but oh how he despises the Word of God.
Ray
This is an important discernment that Ray shows his readers.
How often do we encounter the questions and answers that continue regardless of the wisdom knowledge and understanding offered to detractors and those who are non so blind as them who will not see.
Sometimes we can get into endless genealogies and myths that lead no where and here Ray picks the trend and shuts the opportunity to this detractor who is unteachable.
I appreciated what Ray highlights here. ;D 8)
Haven't you met those types who no matter what you say or show them they still want to be right!? ;D
Peace be to you
Arcturus :)
I just experienced this too! On another board, I was ''debating'' with a fellow who insists that after conversion, there will never be any sin in the life of a believer. This man is so bold as to proclaim to everyone on the board that he never, ever sins. And he is very condemning of anyone humble enough to confess that they still struggle with sin.
So I posted scriptures and used logic, and we went back and forth in our debate, and then he came back with the example of Job being sinless even through his trials. I explained to him that the theme of Job is that no matter how righteous he appeared on the outside, he was full of filth on the inside. And God had to burn it out of him. And so we should never assume that we have reached perfection while in the flesh.
Well that seemed to set him off and he used all sorts of colorful terms to describe me because I was disrespecting God's servant Job.
So, I said that nothing profitable could come from any further discussion, and that I refused to carry on with it.
So of course, he came back and said that I am "forfeiting the debate" and implied that I am "running away" because I couldn't refute him. So I told him that if it makes him feel better to think that, go right ahead. I am done. And he still kept trying to draw me back into the debate!
I thank God that I am able to just chucke at this type of behavior now. In times past, I probably would have gotten all bent out of shape and gone right back at him, back and forth, on and on for the ages. But God is chastening me into maturity and I appreciate it. ;D
Sorry for that long and insignificant story.
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Hi Joey,
Thank you for sharing your story!
It was very interesting.
Iris
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On the contrary Joey. Your testimony bears witness!
Understanding comes from His Spirit! Not our debating skills.
Ray has posted this concept : that he who is persuaded against his will is of the same opinion still. The flesh wills to be right and is contrary to the Spirit. Carnality hates the Spirit and the word of God but will not admit to its error.
It is much more profitable to study the truth than try to feed it to junkies who's diet is fast food heresy and deception! They are not into good food and are only made ready once they get really sick of sin, battered by deception and ruined by their broken ideas, and then healed through repentance from Christ! :D ;D
Gena, your grandchildren are a blessing and gift! What a bonus from our Lord to you and your family! I am very happy for you! and Matt is a big kid at heart helping and encouraging! :D ;D
Peace be to you
Arcturus :)
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Okay, thanks for the encouragement! I thought it might bore people. 8)
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Okay, I got another question . Don't throw rocks at me just yet. I am still trying to feel the way around here and learn. I have read that Ray is the teacher sent by God right? So is he more than other people like on a higher level. Like in the Catholic church thre are different levels of leadership and those people are thought to be higher than others. But this don't mean that Ray knows everything like Jesus did does it? I don't think it means that but want to be sure. It seems like Ray has devoted his time to study and explaining things in the Bible and that is good that he is able to spend his time doing so. He still is like the rest of us and sins everyday right? I hope you don't take this wrong but I just need to know.
Nole
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Hi Nole,
The only way I can answer you question is by stating that Christ did NOT raise himself above any man.
Clearly Ray fits the category of a teacher. :)
Eph 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
Rom 12:3 ¶ For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think [of himself] more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.
All that are members of the Body of Christ are members with one another, regardless of the position held.
Rom 12:4 For as we have many members in one body, and all members have not the same office:
Rom 12:5 So we, [being] many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.
Rom 12:6 Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, whether prophecy, [let us prophesy] according to the proportion of faith;
Rom 12:7 Or ministry, [let us wait] on [our] ministering: or he that teacheth, on teaching;
Rom 12:8 Or he that exhorteth, on exhortation: he that giveth, [let him do it] with simplicity; he that ruleth, with diligence; he that sheweth mercy, with cheerfulness.
Rom 12:9 [Let] love be without dissimulation. Abhor that which is evil; cleave to that which is good.
Well this is how I see it.
With Love in Christ,
Darren
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Hi seminole,
Yes Ray is just like the rest of us :)
But God is using him to discern the scripture in an exordinary way.
Even though we will be sinners until we are born into the kingdom. Those with Christ indwelling is no longer a slave to sin, and sin no longer reigns in your life.
Rom 6:13 Do not present your members to sin as instruments for unrighteousness, but present yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life, and your members to God as instruments for righteousness.
v. 14 For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace.
v. 15 What then? Are we to sin because we are not under law but under grace? By no means!
v. 16 Do you not know that if you present yourselves to anyone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin, which leads to death, or of obedience, which leads to righteousness?
v. 17 But thanks be to God, that you who were once slaves of sin have become obedient from the heart to the standard of teaching to which you were committed,
v. 18 and, having been set free from sin, have become slaves of righteousness.
v. 19 I am speaking in human terms, because of your natural limitations. For just as you once presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to righteousness leading to sanctification.
mercy, peace, and love
Kat
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Nole, I know where you're coming from bro. For real. But I hope that you realize that you don't have to fear being on this forum. You have some trepidation about individuals being elevated on a podium above the rest of us right? That's not happening. I guess I can't speak for anyone else, but I, speaking for myself, I would never be here if that were happening. Ray is as lowly as I am, and I'm sure he'd back me up on that one. I consider myself on his level, and him on mine. He knows more than me, and has more time to study more things than I, so I look to him as someone who can teach me. That's it. He's not a little god to me, or someone to fear whatsoever. I had a weird feeling about it for a while, but I realized that these people, meaning the others who were here before me, aren't blindly following Ray. They just respect the heck out of him for what he teaches. He got all he has from God so to God, not Ray Smith, be the glory. I'm sure everyone here agrees with me.
Like I said in a previous post of mine, I'd turn my back on him in 1 millisecond if he started getting all freaky weirdo David Koresh on us. That's not my cup of tea. What is my cup of tea is some dude who just happens to be more insightful than I am, and so because of that I can learn from the dude.
He has my respect, but not my blind loyalty.
That's my two cents on him.
Peace Nole.
Matt
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Gena, your grandchildren are a blessing and gift! What a bonus from our Lord to you and your family! I am very happy for you! and Matt is a big kid at heart helping and encouraging! :D ;D
Peace be to you
Arcturus :)
Thanks Arc. ;D
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Well said. ;D
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Matt, that was really well said. :)
Just as our bodies have many parts and each part has a special function, so it is with Christ's body. We are all parts of his one body, and each of us has different work to do. And since we are all one body in Christ, we belong to each other, and each of us needs all the others. God has given each of us the ability to do certain things well. So if God has given you the ability to prophesy, speak out when you have faith that God is speaking through you. If your gift is that of serving others, serve them well. If you are a teacher, do a good job of teaching. If your gift is to encourage others, do it! If you have money, share it generously. If God has given you leadership ability, take the responsibility seriously. And if you have a gift for showing kindness to others, do it gladly. Don't just pretend that you love others. Really love them. Hate what is wrong. Stand on the side of the good. Love each other with genuine affection,[2] and take delight in honoring each other.
Romans 12:4-10
I feel Ray has been given the gift of teaching, and according to scripture there is nothing wrong with "taking delight in honoring" him in that. But I honor also the rest of the body, the members of this forum who also teach, encourage and gladly show kindness to others.
All praise to the father,
Peace,
Diana
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Hi, Seminole.
Possibly your question has already been answered adequately.
I hope no-one looks to Ray as some kind of prophet or ‘super apostle.’ Like all of us, he has one or more of the gifts of the Spirit. And it is reasonable to say his gift from God is teaching. In 1 Timothy 5v17 it says: Let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honour, especially they who labour in the word and doctrine.
Personally, I give Ray ‘double honour’ for his labour in the Word and in presenting doctrine in a way we can be edified by it.
What I particularly like about bible-truths is that Ray presents doctrine for the world to see, and although many detractors may not understand (like who this post is referring to) it does show that these teachings are robust and stand up to scrutiny.
Blessings in Christ, Rob.
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I enjoyed your post Robert and the Scripture you brought. Here is one to add :D also from Paul to Timothy.2 Tim 2 : 20,21 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and silver, but also utensils of wood and earthenware, and some for honourable and noble use and some for menial and ignoble use. 21. So whoever cleanses himself from what is ignoble and unclean, WHO SEPARATES HIMSELF from contact with contaminating and corrupting influences will then himself be a vessel SET APART AND USEFUL for honorable and noble purposes, consecrated and profitable to the Master, fit and ready for any good work.
How many would say that Ray holds hands of agreement with his foolish, vitriolic, self aggrandising detractors on anything they say or claim? Does Ray pretend he is one with them or does he distinctly express disapproval and disagreement using refutation with Scripture as his means and rebuke as his message to hypocrites?
How often are we made to feel bad, guilty or insensitive for holding our beliefs? These three musketeers bad guilty insensitive are children of heresy and blasphemy and hate of God. They work together to bring down faith, trust and knowledge of God into their strongholds of deception, seduction and idolatry. Rejection, persecution and disdain are the attitudes of heresy and blasphemy and that spirit of persecution we feel if we go against the teachers or teachings of Babylon.
Felt any of these control mechanisms lately anyone? I am not speaking of going out of our way to make enemies. There are plenty enough without our helping matters! What I am asking is do we pretend to be one of the fools, the snakes and the hypocrites to avoid detection or do we accept that the cross we carry is one which the world will crucify us upon because of our fidelity in Christ and disloyalty to the world.
Peace to you
Arcturus :)
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hello everyone,
It's been great to get back into fellowship with all of you after a long stint away; it's a great thread indeed. All of your input is scripturally accurate and edifying to me.
IArcurus and all, OMG...I must confess that this thread is just the enlightenment that I needed to read after a heavy and long and burdonsome week of contemplating just where the Lord is leading me with my homeschooling at this point and for this coming school year. You see, I am struggling severely in trying to discern properly just what it is that HE is wanting me to do. Am I to walk away from every single homeschool individual in my life who is a Christian and who is not loving truth and searching/receiving for these truths that we here at BT see so clearly? Am I to drop all of the Hsing friends that we have made so far and walk away from them and our teaching co -ops together and then be with only those who are willing to learn the truth or those who don't claim to be christian? Do homeschool with no one (since there is not a single person that I know who is like minded in these meaty spiritual issues) and break all contact with children for my child to socialize with? Do I put him in a Charter school (whifch is an option right now) with those who are not procaliming any particular religious walk? To me, I am not to fellowship in public or in my home (nor literally eat in public nor in my home) with anyone who has only a FORM of Godliness in their lives...THUS, THAT RULES OUT ABOUT 99.9% OF ALL OF MY HOMESCHOOL associates! This is painful for me right now and I do not know what to do at this point! I would rather be around those who don't claim to know or have the truth than those who THINK AND FALSLEY TEACH that they have the whole truth but who are erring and don't care that they are erring. (We have already been pstracised by the homeschool community since we do not go to their pagan holiday parties or to a Sunday church and such. They just pretend to like us, thus they are hypocritical when we are around them.
Any input would be greatly appreciated.
This is not just a homeschool issue, this is a relationship issue with family, neighbors, as well as with the homeschool relationships and others who are in our lives who do not believe these deeper truths. I guess what I am trying to say is ...ARE WE TO TOTALLY SEPARATE OURSELVES FROM ANYONE WHO BELIEVES AND TEACHES AGAINST THE WORD OF GOD, IF EVEN IN A SCHOOLING ENVIRONMENT THAT MY CHILD NEEDS (SUCH AS HOMESCHOOLING)?
CONFUSED AGAIN... :(
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Hi Susan, (It's great to have you back with us again. I missed you bunches) :)
I can only answer you based on my experience. I live, I work, I socialize and enjoy the company of many people on a strictly casual basis. I like to call them friends, but they are not dear, trusted friends. We differ in thought and belief in regard to politics, football teams and spiritual belief, this is life as given me. I see people when I go to the grocery store, I talk to the cashiers, even if they are all goth'd up and look like they're dressed for halloween.
God has given me a life, like you I am not 100% of what I am to do. But I do know this, people will judge me far better and quicker on what I do than what I say. I would also ask you to read the worship service thread. The holiday get togethers, Christmas parties, etc are only evil if you make them so.Please understand that it is not the "day" or the "event" itself that is gotten out of, but the belief in the event itself. You know, forgetting all else because of christmas.
You are well grounded in truth sister Susan, I am sure your children are too. I personally do not try to make a big deal about any pagan holiday. It is just another day, God's day. Giving and recieving gifts is only that, I could do the same any day, why then should it be bad on just one day.
You cannot protect yourself let alone your children from people who do not believe what you do; however, God can and will protect you and your entire family if you put all of your love and trust in him.
Is your or my walk any different today, than that of David?
Psa 23:1 [[A Psalm of David.]] The LORD [is] my shepherd; I shall not want.
Psa 23:2 He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: he leadeth me beside the still waters.
Psa 23:3 He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake.
Psa 23:4 Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou [art] with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.
Psa 23:5 Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies: thou anointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over.
Psa 23:6 Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life: and I will dwell in the house of the LORD for ever.
Sorry for the lecture :)
Love in Christ,
Darren
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I have definitely learned from this 'discernment' email to Ray, and I agree with Arcturus that Ray is a 'God send'. Ray is a very patient and kind as well as greatly Inspired pastor/elder/teacher.
I agree with Kat that we ALL still will be missing the mark, [but hopefully not drenched in these missings [sins] ;D] until the Kingdom.
With peace, Caregiver
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Arcturus, I'm sorry for digressing from the main theme of your post here, with my issues; I was just agreeing that it takes discernment in the situation that I am in and how I didn't have it at this time. anyway, I agree...RAYS SHOULD RECEIVE DOUBLE HONOR FOR ALL THAT HE IS SACRIFICING AND DOING TO TEACH US THESE TRUTHS!!!
Darren, thank you for your response (I have misssed you too; you are thought of more than I communicate though!) I really do need to start a new thread that relates to my issues about hsing instead of hijacking this thread...so I shall. ;)
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For what it's worth I don't think you can or should "segregate" yourself and your family from every person that doesn't agree with you. It would be like saying that you are better than them because of what you believe. You have to live in this world so are you not going to buy groceries somewhere because they don't agree with you? That same question goes to restaurants, ball games and every aspect of life. There have been many "groups" that are so exclusive due to their beliefs.
Nole
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Hello Susan
Good to see you again! You are in the right place at the right time. The topic here is discernment and it appears you are having quite a battle!
Here is some scripture for you. Paul wrote to the Corinthians in his first letter 5:10 NOT meaning of course that you must ALTOGETHER SHUN the immoral people of this world, or the greedy grasper's and cheats and thieves or idolaters, since otherwise you would need to get out of the world 8) and human society altogether! ;D :D
Note what Ray says here http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,4702.0.html
Did you get that? :D ;D Quote : Now it is true that the final choice we made is the ONLY choice that we could have made, but so what? It is, after all, THE ONE WE WANTED TO MAKE. Can you now understand it?
So relax! You will make the only choice you can make and then Susan, before during and after your choice....trust God!
I know it is not easy! It is simple though and I believe you can take that step of trust knowing you can not trust yourself but HIM who leads you!
Peace to you
Arcturus :)