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=> Testimonies / Prayer Requests / Fellowship => Topic started by: lilitalienboi16 on December 06, 2007, 02:23:05 AM
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Anyone ever feel like they just want to be puppet. That they don't care anymore, that they don't want free will, or even the ability to choose. I feel right now like i just want to be a puppet, i want to be a slave of Jesus Christ, im sick and tired of this and i can't seem to do whats right and it's insnaly frustrating and i have come to the point in my life now where i want to be a SLAVE, I WANT TO BE A PUPPET. I WANT TO BE A ROBOT. I don't care anymore, i can't and i wont make the right choices and it madens me.
So um... i wanna be a puppet.. make me into a puppet of yours Jesus! Make me a slave of yours, cuz i really don't care anymore cuz their is no hope in man and i don't care what anyone else thinks, if the only way to follow Christ is to be a puppet or slave or robot or whatever you wanna call it, than thats what i wanna be. I DONT WANT CHOICES, I DONT WANT THE ABILITY TO MAKE CHOIES, I WANNA BE A ROBOT NOW THATS IT....
Ok thanks for listening to my rant, feel free to share your thoughts and opinion on becoming a puppet.
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Let this mind be in you that was also in Christ Jesus.Be imitators of God,therefore as dearly beloved children.The goal is you decreasing that he might increase.that it reaches a int where it is no more I but Christ on the inside that is doing the work.
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Hi Alex,
I understand what you are saying. This life is so frustrating because there is no good in us, none.
Rom 3:9 What then? Are we Jews any better off? No, not at all. For we have already charged that all, both Jews and Greeks, are under sin,
v. 10 as it is written: "None is righteous, no, not one;
v. 11 no one understands; no one seeks for God.
v. 12 All have turned aside; together they have become worthless; no one does good, not even one."
v. 13 "Their throat is an open grave; they use their tongues to deceive." "The venom of asps is under their lips."
v. 14 "Their mouth is full of curses and bitterness."
v. 15 "Their feet are swift to shed blood;
v. 16 in their paths are ruin and misery,
v. 17 and the way of peace they have not known."
v. 18 "There is no fear of God before their eyes."
But it is God's will that all learn rightousness, but first we must see and live and experience sin :P
Ecc 1:13 And I applied my heart to seek and to search out by wisdom concerning all that is done under heaven: it is a sore travail that God hath given to the sons of men to be exercised therewith.
Psa 60:3 You have shown Your people hard things; You have made us drink the wine of confusion.
But in the end God will have all learn rightousness and come to the knowledge of His truth.
Isa 26:9 With my soul have I desired thee in the night; yea, with my spirit within me will I seek thee earnestly: for when thy judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world learn righteousness.
Isa 11:9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all My holy mountain, for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD as the waters cover the sea.
Hab 2:14 For the earth will be filled with the knowledge of the glory of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.
It's a process, it is very painful at this time.
But it will turn out good, and we won't just be robots or puppets. We will have the mind of Christ, but there will be all these individuals, with different personalities and different characteristics. It will be great and far better than a bunch of puppets that are all just alike. Hang in there Alex :)
mercy, peace and love
Kat
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I kind of feel like Alex today myself.
Yesterday I tried to give blood and the nurse said my blood pressure was to high!
It was 174/104 thats stage 2 high pressure. She said more people die from this than
anything. I wasn't concerned about death but more of how to approach it.
Should I care about my health?? How do I not become consumed by all these dieting
plans and healthy plans. Is it a priority thing? When it comes to exercise and losing wieght
I feel I would be a vain person or maybe more vain than now! Should I be this concerned about
my outward appearance? If I am to be a more healthy person am I wrong for giving this kind of
attention to myself? I hope you all understand how I feel, sometimes I feel alone in thinking
this way. Sometimes I do just want to give up, call it a day, throw in the towel!!!!
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Thank you all for your comments, and thank you kat for the scriptures.
I understand all that, but sometimes, more often than not, i feel like just giving in and letting God put me in chains and whipping me to do the right thing because i just cannot and will not do whats right. It drives me insane.
Here God is telling me whats right, but He won't give me the power to do whats right. So now im begging Him to enslave me and just FORCE ME to do whats right because i am going insane! Put me in chains, put me in the fire and force me to do the right thing and throw away the key forever. I'd rather be a slave and be able to follow Christ in all His commandmants and have Him living His life in me than to continue onward in this life chaseing after the wind and stumbling left and right.
I know we won't be puppets in the end... but right now... that doesn't sound so bad.. considering the alternative of what im living.
Thanks for listening to my rant and shareing your thoughts.
God bless everyone,
Alex
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Hello Alex
You are not being too merciful towards your liability to temptations, weakness and failings. We are all in bondage to vanity, slavery to corruption and no one is yet perfect. Jesus shares with you/us our feelings of our weakness and failings not to enslave you/us but liberate you and us. There is a purpose in suffering through all this I assure you friend.
Perhaps the best to do is forget about how you feel and leave God to do the changes He sees are fit for you. So far you have seen, experienced and are suffering the fact that you are not God, you can not change and you have no free will. What an awesome privilege and discovery!
Peace be to you and may God comfort you in your needs.
Arcturus :)
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Hi Alex,
Your post fits in so well with the book I've been led to study recently. The inspired writer of Ecclesiastes felt very much like you that man's efforts on this earth are "vanity and striving after wind". Eccl 1:14. I've been reading this book because while rereading the Ray's LOF series, the part on free will, he talks about Eccl 3. "There is an appointed time for everything." Ray said that the point of this chapter is to show that God Himself causes all these events in our life at the time He appoints for us. The chapter is a look at the tree of good and evil from which God makes us eat.
One thing I noticed, Alex, our Father wants us to experience good and evil. Notice these verses:
Eccl2 :24 "There is nothing better for a man than to eat and drink and tell himself that his labor is good. This also I have seen, that it is from the hand of God. 25. For who can eat and who can have enjoyment without Him?:
3:12,13,22 a ""I know that there is nothing better for them than to rejoice and to do good in one's lifetime; moreover, that every man who eats and drinks sees good in all his labor - it is the gift of God. And I have seen that nothing is better than that man should be happy in his activities, for that is his lot."
5:18 "Here is what I have seen to be good and fitting: to eat, to drink and enjoy oneself in all one's labor in which he toils under the sun during the few years of his life which God has given him; for this is his reward."
8:15 "So I commended pleasure, for there is nothing good for a man under the sun except to eat and to drink and to be merry, and this will stand by him in his toils throughout the days of his life which God has given him uner the sun."
9:7 "Go then, eat your bread in happiness, and drink your wine with a cheerful heart; for God has already approved your works. (God has appointed these works to us in our lives.)
11:9 "Rejoice, young man, during your childhood, and let your heartbe pleasant during the days of young manhood. And follow the inpulses of your heart and the desires of your eyes. YET, know that God will bring you to judgment for all these things.
11:10 "So, remove vexation from your heart and put away pain from your body, because childhood and the prime of life are fleeting.
What God is telling me when I read this book is yes He puts evil and adversity in our lives to teach us, but He also puts good in our lives. And He wants us (commands us, for His desires are our commands) to enjoy, rejoice, be merry, have a cheerful heart, be happy, etc.
Alex, I am not trivializing the trials you are going thru. But, please, also find the pleasure and joy of the good things He has put into your life. Sometimes when we are young we can be too serious.
Peace and joy to you,
Cindy :)
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Thank you moises for those words and thank you cindy for the scripture and post.
I honostly don't think i'm being to hard on myself, there is absolutely NO EXCUSE for what i do. I can't stand doing it, and yet i can't stop. This has been going on for atleast 2 years now and i'm just sick and tired of it.
Guess i really can't say much else... i wanna be a puppet.
God bless,
Alex
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Hi Alex,
Something that just struck me, is you are wanting the easy way out ;)
Are you saying you want to be a puppet, so you don't have to be accountable for what you are doing :o
We all have to go through the these experiences of this life. Just as soon as you think you are doing something right, then bang you do something incredible dumb. That's just the way it is for all of us, this trying to do things right and messing things up again and again. Obviously God wants us to learn this lesson very well, that of ourself we can do nothing good.
I know you really do want to be a puppet, but you are going to have to go the same route that the rest of us went, the hard way. Because what you are striving for, the kingdom, will be so wonderful for a human being to obtain. But the first resurrection is by far the greatest thing any human being can ever hope to obtain and it won't come easy for those who do.
Hang in there Alex, you don't know how close it is, it may be just around the corner :)
mercy, peace and love
Kat
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Hi Alex,
Something that just struck me, is you are wanting the easy way out ;)
Are you saying you want to be a puppet, so you don't have to be accountable for what you are doing :o
We all have to go through the these experiences of this life. Just as soon as you think you are doing something right, then bang you do something incredible dumb. That's just the way it is for all of us, this trying to do things right and messing things up again and again. Obviously God wants us to learn this lesson very well, that of ourself we can do nothing good.
I know you really do want to be a puppet, but you are going to have to go the same route that the rest of us went, the hard way. Because what you are striving for, the kingdom, will be so wonderful for a human being to obtain. But the first resurrection is by far the greatest thing any human being can ever hope to obtain and it won't come easy for those who do.
Hang in there Alex, you don't know how close it is, it may be just around the corner :)
mercy, peace and love
Kat
I don't know if i want the easy way out kat... all i know is im tired of hearting my Lord, i'm tired of hearting others around me, i'm tired of doing whats wrong. To be honost it never crossed my mind as to wether 'i don't want to be held accountable.' I know i am accountable, and i take full responsability, i'm just sick and tired of doing whats wrong all the time and it just hurts me to know i'm hurting others, and most importantly my Lord.
You said; Just as soon as you think you are doing something right, then bang you do something incredible dumb.
I give you an amen to that one... :/
Thanks for your words of comfort kat, i guess that's really what i need... to know their is hope. Sometimes things can seem so hopefless, though you know the truth is they aren't. It's hard to remember that though.
Thanks again for your comforting words.
God bless,
Alex
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I was re-reading your post cindy and i have to say i love this verse;
11:9-10 "Rejoice, young man, during your childhood, and let your heart be pleasant during the days of young manhood. And follow the inpulses of your heart and the desires of your eyes. YET, know that God will bring you to judgment for all these things. So, remove vexation from your heart and put away pain from your body, because childhood and the prime of life are fleeting."
I feel like God is talking to me in it...
Thanks again for the words.
In Christ,
Alex
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You're welcome Alex.
Remember, our Lord, Himself was once a young man of your age with the same or similar struggles. He understands our struggles. Can't you just feel the love and concern in His words to us?
Peace to you,
Cindy :)
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Cindy
I also was lifted by the inspired verses you posted. Thank you!
Peace to you
Arcturus :)
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You're very welcome, Arcturus. I appreciate your taking the time to tell me!
This year as I watch the spirit of the world "joy to the world" celebration with eyes more open spiritually I see their joy is dead and sad, forced, pretend joy.
We know only the spirit of Christ brings real joy.
Joy to you,
Cindy :)
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Hi All,
Just a thought...a wise man once said...we are puppets, but we are puppets with minds that can think.
Hummm don't know how close I am to what Ray really said...maybe someone who has the know how can
find his comment on the subject? Or did I just dream it?
peace,
Sue Ann
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Hi Sue Ann,
Here is the email I think you were referring to :)
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,4229.msg32197.html#msg32197 ----
Ahhh but you are wrong Sam. We are NOT "mindless puppets" as you suggest, but rather puppets WITH minds. What a GENIUS God is--puppets.......w-i-t-h M-I-N-D-S! Marvelous! I love it.
God be with you,
Ray
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Here is another email. ActuallyI guess you could say that you already are kind of a puppet Alex.
http://bible-truths.com/email5.htm#puppets -------------
By the way, we are considerably more complex than a mere puppet. But it is true that God controls us every bit as much as a puppeteer controls a puppet. And God is not ashamed to admit that this is the case. God says that a man CANNOT DIRECT HIS OWN STEPS, that the response of the tongue IS FROM THE ETERNAL, that ALL IS OF GOD, that God is operating ALL according to the counsel of His own will, that HE Himself is the CREATOR OF EVIL, it was God who planted the forbidden fruit tree in the garden than contained not only good, but a knowledge of EVIL as well, it is GOD who sets up the rulers of all governments, one can only come to Christ when God decides to "draw [Greek, drag] him to Christ," and a thousand and one other things. So why do we have trouble believing all these Scriptures?
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mercy, peace and love
Kat
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Kat,
That's it....!!! Ray sure doesn't mince words and I do so love it!!!! Feels just like a good wine that soothes the stomach and the soul.
Thank you!!
peace,
Sue Ann
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Hello Sue Ann
All I could find was some email responses by Ray who uses the term Robots, not Puppets.
Here are the links.
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2943.0.html
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,4702.0.html
Peace to you
Arcturus :)
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Alex,
I can relate, because I too struggle with sin, and making the wrong choices, and with even my faith. I can't seem to make up my mind,
there's this constant battle going on inside my mind, and I can't seem to choose a side.
As for being a 'puppet', aren't we already? Albeit puppets with minds, but still puppets with the causation as the strings, and our choices
are the effects of the strings being pulled.
It is a strange thing indeed to think that we don't have free-will, and that all our choices are caused, but that's just the way it is.
Even the food we like, or dislike is determined by our taste buds, and there's nothing we can do about it. I will always choose a nice juicy burger over shrimp because I don't like shrimp, and I find it disgusting. So was that a 'free choice' uncaused by anything? I don't think so... lol
It was caused by the fact that I like burgers, but hate shrimp and I can not 'free-will' myself into liking shrimp.
Take care,
Sorin
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Hello kat and sorin. Thank you both for your posts.
I guess we are somewhat puppets... but sometimes i don't want to a puppet with a mind, i'd rather be a puppet without a mind because makeing the right choices is way to hard and apperently right now God doesn't want me to make the right choices.
Sorin, i know what you mean. I'm in school right now at college, where everything is about evolution. I get things thrown in my face left and right about evolution. Evolution this - that, we are evolving, our knowledge evolves, it's everywhere!!!! I am not armed with any knowledge to counter bat these arguments and it is frustrating. It doesn't help my faith, but God is greater and i have not wavered. Though i wish i could know how to answer all these questions and statements the evolutionist makes. It's tough stuff.
I'm strong because God is strong and so i am okay. These things will not cause me to falter unless it be the Lord's plan. Though i doubt that He has planned me to fall away because of evolution.
Well i pray the Lord see you through your trials sorin. It's hard sometimes to stay focused on Him but through Him nothing is impossible. This i know.
God bless,
Alex
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Hi everyone
Alex and Sorin I think I know where are spiritually (uhmm, I'm not a trying to make myself clairvoyant 8)).
I think the younger you are 'dragged' to Jesus, the harder it is to remain obedient (please do not crucify me if I'm off beat). And Ecc 11: 9-10 does us the younger ones no justice as it almost suggests that being young is associated with being less obedient. I can understand why Alex would want to be a puppet without a mind. But as with everything else with me, I suggest we surrender all to the ALL-IN-ALL. To me it seems like a pretty good start.
Lately I battle with the idea of free will. Much as I understand Paul when he says I do that which I know I should not, I sometimes wonder why God would will me to keep doing wrong...it's pretty tough to digest. But from some response by Ray to a similar concern, I guess I'll take a couple of years to meditate on it until it dwells in my spirit, God-willing.
Seeking His Glory,
Kweli
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Hi Everyone,
There are some really great responses from all who participated in this thread.
Kweli, I think you brought up a very germane point in regard to being in an even more difficult position while being dragged to Him as a younger person, I think of my own experience as an 18 or 19 year old, through my 20's, even into my 30's I was totally driven by my carnal desires, pleasure first, at all costs!
Some personal tragedies brought me to the SDA church at the age of 17, I had been an agnostic even antagonistic Catholic before a series of circumstances (imagine that!) brought me to a (I did not know what denomination at first) Bible study that made God and the Bible come alive to me, really for the first time.
After a few months I joined and I tried (in my own weak flesh) to keep the doctrines of the church not only physically but mentally, needless to say I was a miserable failure, I had no clue that growing in spirit required learning to hate my sins, the things I was tempted by.
Sometimes we actually have to experience the heartache and pain that sin eventually brings to us. My attempt was to try and mentally purge myself the more I tried the farther away I found myself from God. It got to the point where I just accepted the "fact" that I was headed for annihilation at Judgment (SDA's do not teach ET) and that was that. The pull of the flesh was just too strong for me to ignore and so I began to embrace and give in to my temptations rather than make a futile and agonizing attempt to abstain on my own. What a mess I made of not only my life but many others who were in my circle.
At the time I had no clue on really how to pray, or that there was nothing at all I can do on my own, I thought it was all on me to change. A recipe for spiritual failure.
Years later when I had actually stabilized (in family and society's eyes anyway) I had learned (often the very hardest way) to avoid certain things and certain situations and became relatively successful in business and in my personal life that once I was finally "there" so to speak that I began to feel that something big was missing, I had a huge hole in the core of my being that puzzled and frustrated me. This was something that I felt within never sharing it with anyone, I did not want to appear weak or that I was losing my mind.
What I am trying to say my younger Brothers is that God has begun to pull you toward Him and bless you with a better knowledge of Him than most folks ever experience in this life, He has called you into a very precious place for His divine purpose. The most important thing we have to do, whether in this age or the next is to beg God to align our will to His will, just as Jesus did.
From;
PRAYING BY GOD’S RULES
[God’s Prayer Rules are Simple but Not Easy]
THE GREATEST DRAMA OF THE AGES
If you like drama, then Matt. 26:36 is the place to find it. Few pay close attention to what is really going on in these few verses of Scripture. The humanity of Jesus is brought into direct conflict with the will of His God and Father. First I will jump ahead of our story slightly so that you understand the setting of this greatest of all prayers in the history of the universe. After praying for one hour Jesus returns a short way back to His Apostles and says:
"Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak" (Matt. 26:41).
Was the "flesh" of Jesus any stronger than that of His apostles? No, it was the same flesh. Paul tells us that, "…there is ONE kind of flesh of men…" (I Cor. 15:39). Jesus was given this same "one kind" of flesh (John 1:14 & Rom. 1:3). And so the flesh of Jesus was just as "weak" as that of His Apostles. Jesus instructed His apostles to stay awake and pray with Him for one hour. None of them could do it. None of us could have done it. They just ate a meal and they were now sleepy (not only physically sleepy, but especially spiritually sleepy). Now back to the beginning of this great drama:
"Then comes Jesus with them unto a place called Gethsemane, and says unto the disciples, Sit you here, while I go and pray yonder [over there]. And He took with Him Peter and the two sons of Zebedee [James and John] and began to be SORROWFUL, AND VERY HEAVY. Then said He unto them, My soul [His fleshly, conscious humanity, not His spirit] is EXCEEDING SORROWFUL, EVEN UNTO DEATH [spirit doesn’t die, it is our flesh that must die]. Tarry [stay] you here, and watch with Me.
And He went a little farther, and fell on His face, and prayed saying, O MY FATHER, IF IT BE POSSIBLE, LET THIS CUP [this cup of death—being beaten beyond recognition, being made sin offering, and crucified for the sins of humanity] pass from Me: NEVERTHELESS, NOT AS I WILL, BUT AS THOU WILL" (Matt. 26:36-39).
"And there appeared an angel unto Him from heaven, strengthening Him. And being in an agony He prayed more earnestly: and His sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground" (Luke 22:43-44).
I doubt that any of us can ever fully appreciate what unfathomable human trauma and agony was taking place for those three hours in the garden that night two thousand years ago. The eternal destiny of the entire human race was at stake, and Jesus KNEW IT! And believe me, Jesus’ Father was agonizing right along with His Son:
"In all their afflictions, He [GOD] was afflicted… in His love and in His pity He redeemed them…" (Isa. 63:9).
"Though He were a Son, yet learned He obedience by the things which He SUFFERED" (Heb. 5:8).
And oh how Christ was suffering that night in the garden! But right there in the garden is the answer to all prayer. "O MY FATHER… nevertheless, not as I will, BUT AS THOU WILL." Jesus not only prayed that way; Jesus thought that way:
"I can of Mine Own Self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not My Own will, but the WILL OF THE FATHER WHICH HAS SENT ME" (John 5:30).
And again:
"For I came down from heaven, not to do Mine Own will, but the will of HIM THAT SENT ME" (John 6:38).
Did Jesus pray as earnestly as it is possible to pray that God would "let this cup pass?" YES, He did.
Did God grant Jesus His desire to "let this cup pass?" NO, He didn’t.
But, did Jesus get His prayer answered? YES, He surely did. How so? Because Jesus’ greater desire was that His Father’s will be done, rather than "let this cup pass." This example from our Lord is the answer to answered pray and it is also the answer to unanswered prayer.
If you always pray, "not as I will, but as THOU will," all of your prayers will be answered too. Whether you always get what you desire or you don’t get what you desire, if your greatest desire of all desires is for "THY WILL be done," then you can rest assured that from this day forward, all of your prayers will be answered always. God’s will (that is His intention for the way He has preordained everything to go), will always be done. No prayer has ever changed God’s plan or purpose in any way whatsoever. (Read my series on "free will").
Now then, if it was God’s intention for you to be blessed by some particular favor, and God inspires you to pray for that favor then it will surely be given to you. If on the other hand, if it was not God’s intention for you to be blessed by some particular favor, then no amount of praying will cause God to grant it to you. Either way, God’s will must be done, and if that is the greatest desire of your prayer for God’s will to be done in your life, then whether you receive some particular favor or you don’t receive it, nonetheless, YOUR PRAYER WILL BE ANSWERED.
I’m, personally, okay with that. Many of my readers may not be okay with that arrangement of things, but nevertheless, that is the way things are and that is the way things will always be—"THY will be done."
Why is this the only way that we can understand what is such a mystery to many in the Church? Because they do not believe that God is Sovereign. God’s Sovereignty is absolutely not compatible with a fabled "free" will of man. Those that argue contrary just do not understand their own arguments.
God has never made a mistake. God has never ever changed His mind. God has never been surprised by anything that anyone has ever done. God knows everything that will happen before it happens. And the only reason that God can do this is because God is Sovereign and man has no such thing as a "free will." (Don’t everyone send me Gen. 6:6 at the same time now, insisting that God does change His mind—He does NOT).
No man has ever in the history of the world received an answer to a prayer for something from God that God did not already have in His plan to give him. People hate the very thought of a God Who is totally and completely Sovereign, and the reason is simple. If God is Sovereign, then man has no free will that can thwart the sovereign foreknowledge of God. God cannot know for certain a future event if mankind possesses a power that can thwart God’s perfect foreknowledge. Not even most of the greatest minds in theology have thought this apparent enigma through. Had they given sufficient thought to this Truth of God’s Word they would not be teaching such a plethora of unscriptural and damnable heresies.
When God wants to answer someone’s prayer, the first thing He will always do is inspire (cause) that person TO PRAY. How can God answer a "prayer" if someone doesn’t "pray"? God can bless us and do favors for us, but God cannot answer our prayers, if we don’t pray. That is why I get excited when I feel inspired to pray, as I am encouraged that God is getting ready to bless or favor me in some way.
His Peace and Wisdom to you,
Joe
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growing in spirit required learning to hate my sins,
....What I am trying to say my younger Brothers is that God has begun to pull you toward Him and bless you with a better knowledge of Him than most folks ever experience in this life, He has called you into a very precious place for His divine purpose. quote from Joe.
BEAUTIFULLY articulated Joe and fully seconded!
Peace to you
Arcturus :)
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Thanks a lot for your words of encouragement Joe. I guess we are indeed growing in spirit for we do hate our sins. It isnt easy though. But rereading THE GREATEST DRAMA OF THE AGES, that fire and desire of submission and letting God work has been rekindled in me. Thanks again for those words Joe. I hope Alex picked up something to chew on with this thread.
"Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak" (Matt. 26:41)
Sounds to me like part of the solution, if not the solution itself. And coming from Jesus Himself, what more can I say? Amazing how Scripture bears so much resource for us to cope with this experience called life. And it's even more amazing to know that it is all in the DIVINE PLAN.
Seeking His Glory,
Kweli