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=> General Discussions => Topic started by: winner08 on May 15, 2008, 11:41:32 PM

Title: Are you the elect?
Post by: winner08 on May 15, 2008, 11:41:32 PM
I read alot of these threads. I notice alot of you feel that y'all are the elect. Is this correct? Myself I feel that I'm not part of this elect group. That I will suffer in the lake of fire. I was just wondering do you who be live that you are part of this group know for sure that you are? No disrespect to anyone. I'm just a baby in the Lord's truth.

                                               Darren
Title: Re: Are you the elect?
Post by: Jackie Lee on May 15, 2008, 11:46:35 PM
I don't know if I am, but the more sins I overcome will be less time in the lake of fire.
Title: Re: Are you the elect?
Post by: musicman on May 16, 2008, 12:03:38 AM
I assure you that at this time I am not.
Title: Re: Are you the elect?
Post by: winner08 on May 16, 2008, 12:37:55 AM
I guess from growing up in a man made system all my life and now seeing I was lied to all those yrs. I'm jaded. When someone says this is what God wants you to do or believe, I have a hard time believing. Now with Ray it is different because He will give me chapter and verse what ever he's talking about. He will give me scripture. Then I will look it up for myself.It's different from these preachers on TV who tell me what God wants from me, or what God wants me to do. (It's always involves money).I guess when I hear someone say they are the elect it makes me wonder. Like I said I'm jaded.

                                      Darren
Title: Re: Are you the elect?
Post by: mharrell08 on May 16, 2008, 01:09:30 AM
I read alot of these threads. I notice alot of you feel that y'all are the elect. Is this correct? Myself I feel that I'm not part of this elect group. That I will suffer in the lake of fire. I was just wondering do you who be live that you are part of this group know for sure that you are? No disrespect to anyone. I'm just a baby in the Lord's truth.

                                               Darren


Hello Darren,

If anyone states that they are of the elect, you would probably be wise to not believe them. Our Lord does the choosing and only He knows "those that are His" (2 Tim 2:19). Personally, I do not claim to be of the elect though it is a calling I strive for.

Also, I have noticed a couple of your posts and you have one of the most humble attitudes on display. I honestly admire that and hope to be inspired to be the same. The attitude of humbleness is an aspect that I think you see missing from ones who act as if they are already "the chosen". This is something I have been reflecting on today as well.

I'm sorry you feel jaded regarding your past experiences. I know one day our Lord will bring you through those feelings but only on His time. I once felt the same coming from the Babylonian Word of Faith following to the Truths of His Word. Our Lord got me through it and I know He will do the same for you.


Marques
Title: Re: Are you the elect?
Post by: Martinez on May 16, 2008, 01:51:53 AM

God only knows.
Title: Re: Are you the elect?
Post by: Kat on May 16, 2008, 02:21:29 AM

Hi Darren,

The way I see this is we can know if we are having our eyes opened to these truths and that Christ is working within us.  If His spirit is indwelling we most certainly can have hope of being one of the chosen/Elect.

John 14:19  "A little while longer and the world will see Me no more, but you will see Me. Because I live, you will live also.
v. 20  At that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you.
v. 21  He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him."

But the thing is to be of the chosen/Elect you must remain faithful and endure to the end.  As with the parable of the sower (Matt 13), look how many receive this truth only for one reason or another to fall away.  Those that fall away were never destined to be one of the Elect, because Christ will not lose any that are His.

John 10:27  My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.
v. 28  And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.

Here are excerpts from the transcript 'CAN WE LOSE GOD’S SPIRIT AND EONIAN LIFE?'
This Bible study talks alot about having the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,7047.0.html -----

John 6:63  It is the spirit that quickens; the flesh profits nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

See you can not really differentiate between those two.  Spirit is life, spirit doesn’t die.  Flesh dies.  If you have life in you, you have God’s Spirit.  If you have God’s Spirit in you, you have life.  It doesn’t mean that you’re not going to physically die, but at least while you’re living you have some other kind of life in you.  If you don’t have that life in you, then you’re no different than an infidel that has no religion, no faith and maybe has not even any morality as to why he should live above any other citizens or criminals or whatever.  
v
v
 If you just read all the words and be careful for those little words ‘if’ or ‘because’ and things like that.  You’ll have all this and this and this and then Paul will say BECAUSE, you did this or you‘re doing that.  You’ve got to read the words.

Col 1:21  And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled (KJV)

Col 1:21  And you, being once estranged and enemies in comprehension, by wicked acts, yet now He reconcilES [It’s a process] (Concordant)

Col 1:22  In the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy and unblamable and unreprovable in His sight:

So notice that verse ends with a colon, not a period.  Here’s the answer to ALL of these verses, it’s found in the very next verse.  The problem is the reader stops with verse 22.  He quotes verse 21 and then verse 22 and then he says there it is, there is this truth.  Now let’s read the next verse 23.  Because you’ve been reconciled and you will be presented unblamable and all that and verse 23...

Col 1:23  IF you continue  in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

Is that too hard to understand?  Well lets ask ourselves the question, what do you suppose would happen if we don’t continue?  Well this reader says it does not matter, we have it.  IT MATTERS.  “If you continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel…”  See that’s how you have it, “IF you continue.”  I like how Rotherham says it, I checked the Greek and it does kind of have that connotation, he says;  

Col 1:23 If, at least, ye are abiding still in the faith…

“If, at least” you’ve got to be doing that, okay.  Then you will have all of these things.  Again the big ‘if.’

Heb 10:26  For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remains no more sacrifice for sins,
v. 27 But some fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation…

So you mean you can receive the truth and you can be locked into all these Scriptures, like this reader says, but then you can do something wrong?  Yes, you can.  
v
v
Rom 8:10  And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life…

Now here is the point I want to make, spirit is life and life is spirit.  Now back to verse 15.  

Can we lose out… well we read the Scripture that if you sin willfully - willingly there is no more sacrifice for you.  Now look at this verse, many people probably never really saw it before.  

1 John 3:15  Whosoever hates his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal (eonian or age lasting) life abiding (the Greek is “staying or “REMAINING”)  in him.

So the Greek is staying or remaining.  Now if you just read that without all the background that I’m giving you, then you get the feeling that, well he won't be given God’s abiding life.  No, he already has it.  The only way something cannot stay in you or not remain in you, is if it’s in you.  Do you follow that?  It’s in you.  

He’s not talking to Barbarians here or infidels, he’s talking to the congregation who have the spirit of God.  But he says if you hate your brother the spirit of God will no longer stay with you, it will no longer be in you.  If the Spirit of God is not in you, you are no longer His.  Then you are going to the judgment.  That’s just how simple that is.  All through these Scriptures if you read carefully, maybe it doesn’t have it just like this, but this is just a poor translation.  But if you read Concordant and Rotherham and all, they will tell you to ‘stay’ - ‘remain.’  It means to remain, but it won’t remain.  You see it’s there, but it’s coming out.  
-----------------------------------------------------

I guess what it comes down to is we can be in the race and have hope of being of the Elect, but the only way we will know for sure is to be in the resurrection  :)

mercy, peace and love
Kat

Title: Re: Are you the elect?
Post by: Stevernator on May 16, 2008, 03:22:05 AM
I don't know. Not in my current condition anyway, I still need to overcome some things. I hope so. It is really humbling because I have not really been persecuted and back in the day so many of the early disciples were beaten and martyred. Although such persecution is not as likely to happen in modern western society I suppose but we can still be persecuted in other ways. Also I have not been through too many trials but I am still young. Only God knows for sure.

2 peter 1

4through which to us the most great and precious promises have been given, that through these ye may become partakers of a divine nature, having escaped from the corruption in the world in desires.

 5And this same also -- all diligence having brought in besides, superadd in your faith the worthiness, and in the worthiness the knowledge,

 6and in the knowledge the temperance, and in the temperance the endurance, and in the endurance the piety,

 7and in the piety the brotherly kindness, and in the brotherly kindness the love;

 8for these things being to you and abounding, do make [you] neither inert nor unfruitful in regard to the acknowledging of our Lord Jesus Christ,

 9for he with whom these things are not present is blind, dim-sighted, having become forgetful of the cleansing of his old sins;

 10wherefore, the rather, brethren, be diligent to make stedfast your calling and choice, for these things doing, ye may never stumble,

 11for so, richly shall be superadded to you the entrance into the age-during reign of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
Title: Re: Are you the elect?
Post by: jerreye on May 16, 2008, 06:49:14 AM
Quote
Heb 10:26  For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remains no more sacrifice for sins,
v. 27 But some fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation…

This verse to me is saying as long as you are in a state of "willfull sin", there remains no more sacrifice FOR these sins, since you no longer care and are WILLFULLY sinning. I don't believe that this means that one cannot "come to himself" and to see their face in the mud and RETURN to God. This verse isn't talking of a single sin in time, but an attitude of willfully sinning against God with a hardened heart.

If you continue in willful sin (a life style), then all that is left for you is a fearful EXPECTATION of judgment, based on your unwillingness to STOP sinning.

I know that Ray teaches that there IS no unpardonable sin and that there is only ONE SIN that will not be forgiven in this age or the next age and that sin is to blaspheme the holy spirit, by contributing the works of God to the works of the devil.

God says IF we confess our sins, He will forgive us our sins. However, if a man in WILLFULLY sinning, will he ever have the heart to confess his sins to God? Most likely not!

I believe there is always hope in you if you don't FAINT (give up) and WILFULLY walk away from the hope of the Gospel that you have heard.
Title: Re: Are you the elect?
Post by: David on May 16, 2008, 06:49:26 AM
To answer the question, thats for God to decide.
I live by faith and live in hope.
I think that if one thinks they are, then the chances are they are not.
You should listen to Ray's talk on "How hard is it to get saved". I think its also on video google to watch. Being in the 1st ressurection, meeting the criteria required is probably the hardest thing any human can achieve.
I think its fair to say that because Ray was confined to time when he did this talk, he could have gone on a lot longer about the requirements for Gods elect. Its huge.
 
Title: Re: Are you the elect?
Post by: Craig on May 16, 2008, 08:27:08 AM
Quote
I notice alot of you feel that y'all are the elect.

Can you let me know what thread you read where anyone feels they are the elect?

I don't recall a statement like this made.  I think if I start seeing folks here make that claim, I'm running to the exit.

Hope of being elect, yes.  Stating you are elect, run.

Craig
Title: Re: Are you the elect?
Post by: Chris R on May 16, 2008, 09:19:30 AM
God knows who are His, We are not to judge such matters, God works in mysterious ways, His ways are not our ways.

Peace

Chris R
Title: Re: Are you the elect?
Post by: Patrick on May 16, 2008, 02:09:29 PM

I think if I start seeing folks here make that claim, I'm running to the exit.

Craig

I'll be in front of you or very close behind you!
Title: Re: Are you the elect?
Post by: winner08 on May 16, 2008, 02:23:13 PM
My mistake craig. Like I say in most of my post I could be wrong. It wouldn't be the first time or the last. Sorry.

                                            Darren
Title: Re: Are you the elect?
Post by: Roy Monis on May 16, 2008, 04:39:13 PM
I read alot of these threads. I notice alot of you feel that y'all are the elect. Is this correct? Myself I feel that I'm not part of this elect group. That I will suffer in the lake of fire. I was just wondering do you who be live that you are part of this group know for sure that you are? No disrespect to anyone. I'm just a baby in the Lord's truth.

                                               Darren

Hi! Darren

Brother! There are no adults here we are all babes and none of us can claim that distinction, I think even Ray wouldn't make such a claim either. We will all have to go through that lake of fire. If it's any consolation book a place next to me and I'll promise to hold your hand even though my knees will be knocking together furiously as well.

You are not on your own by a long way, it may come as a surprise to find that you get through a lot quicker than some of us, me included. Take courage brother, you're not that bad or you wouldn't be here. I hope that's some consolation?

God bless.

Love in Christ Jesus.

Roy UK

Title: Re: Are you the elect?
Post by: joyful1 on May 16, 2008, 08:14:33 PM
What about "make sure of your election?"

2 Peter 1:9-10

 9But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.

 10Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

 11For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

I've always assumed that we can only HOPE for election.....? Does the above verse mean that we strive BECAUSE we hope? Or does it mean that we have assurance, because; whatever work He has begun in us He WILL finish?

Philippians 1:6
Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:


We know for sure that His Spirit bares witness with our spirit that we ARE the children of God....

Romans 8:16
The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:


but what does that REALLY mean? Will our spirit and His Spirit stand and be the witnesses necessary to establish that we are His on judgement day, or does it mean that as we become ONE with Christ, and hence ONE with the Father, we are being shown by the Father and Christ that we ARE sons of God? A kind of "ongoing" process? I've often thought about the whole "is, was, and will be" application here. Any thoughts?
Joyce :)

Title: Re: Are you the elect?
Post by: KristaD on May 16, 2008, 10:55:01 PM
Forgive me, I haven't read all of the post on this thread. My feeling is that God is working in me, showing me things and purging me of sin. I have NO IDEA if this means that I am one of the elect and even thinking that I may be seems totally out there to me really. I feel blessed that He is working on me but I certainly don't feel that I am in any way deserving of, or that I could even accept a position of reigning with Christ. I feel that He called me out and is daily showing me truths, but I sure don't feel elect just blessed and that's plenty good enough for me ;).
Title: Re: Are you the elect?
Post by: winner08 on May 16, 2008, 11:36:16 PM
Thanks Roy from the UK: I appreciate all the kindness that you have shown me. Your words are a comfort.

                                          Thanks Darren
Title: Re: Are you the elect?
Post by: Stevernator on May 17, 2008, 05:46:08 AM
Hi Krista,
Well Peter talks about steps to make our calling and election sure. So I wonder if we can conclude that if we dilligently do these things then one is elect??
Title: Re: Are you the elect?
Post by: Roy Monis on May 17, 2008, 08:48:37 AM
To answer the question, thats for God to decide.
I live by faith and live in hope.
I think that if one thinks they are, then the chances are they are not.
You should listen to Ray's talk on "How hard is it to get saved". I think its also on video google to watch. Being in the 1st ressurection, meeting the criteria required is probably the hardest thing any human can achieve.
I think its fair to say that because Ray was confined to time when he did this talk, he could have gone on a lot longer about the requirements for Gods elect. Its huge.
 


Hi! David

Well said brother. While in Babylon I met quite a few who had reservations right at the foot of Christ's throne.
Sadly I couldn't see what they were sitting on, there was nothing there only an illusion. There is a time for everything under the sun and it appears as though it is their time to dream pleasant dreams.

God bless

Love in Christ Jesus.

Roy UK
Title: Re: Are you the elect?
Post by: KristaD on May 17, 2008, 10:33:51 AM
Hmmm, I strive b/c He causes me to, b/c He changed what is important to me and I can no longer happily do things that I know displease Him. Honestly I am not in anyway striving for a place in the kingdom or to avoid the lake of fire. Whatever He judges is right for me is right for me and it's just not something that I trouble myself with anymore, I used to but then I just felt unworthy and defeated b/c I knew I wasn't "good enough". I am assured that He is working in me, that He is guiding my life and always has been, and I am assured that He will not let me go and He will see through what He's started to the end but I am in no way assured that what He's doing in my life now will get me out of the lake of fire but like a pp said it will mean less time in it ;).
Title: Re: Are you the elect?
Post by: Kat on May 17, 2008, 11:12:38 AM

The way I see this is when our eyes are opened to this Truth, we begin the race.  At that point we are among the chosen.  But the only way anyone can be of the Elect is to finish the race.  So if at any point you drop out of the race, you never were of the Elect.  Even Paul knew he was in a race that he had to finish.

1Co 9:24  Do you not know that those who run in a race all run, but one receives the prize? Run in such a way that you may obtain it.
v. 25  And everyone who competes for the prize is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a perishable crown, but we for an imperishable crown.
v. 26  Therefore I run thus: not with uncertainty. Thus I fight: not as one who beats the air.
v. 27  But I discipline my body and bring it into subjection, lest, when I have preached to others, I myself should become disqualified.

Since you can know that you are in the race, because you understand and believe these Truths, Paul continually tells us to give it all we have and never give up.

Heb 12:1  Therefore we also, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which so easily ensnares us, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us,
v. 2  looking unto Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith, who for the joy that was set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.

The Apostles knew that the Elect were among the Believers they were teaching.  So they always were encouraging them, as Paul said, "run with endurance the race that is set before us" and "do not lose heart."

Gal 6:9  And let us not grow weary while doing good, for in due season we shall reap if we do not lose heart.

Peter says "make your call and election sure."

2 Peter 1:10  Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble;

John used "little children" many times to encourage the believers, as a term of endearment.

1John 2:1  My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.

1John 2:12  I write to you, little children, Because your sins are forgiven you for His name's sake.

1John 2:18  Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour.

1John 2:28  And now, little children, abide in Him, that when He appears, we may have confidence and not be ashamed before Him at His coming.

1John 3:7  Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous.

1John 3:18  My little children, let us not love in word or in tongue, but in deed and in truth.
v. 19  And by this we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before Him.

1John 4:4  You are of God, little children, and have overcome them, because He who is in you is greater than he who is in the world.

1John 5:19  We know that we are of God, and the whole world lies under the sway of the wicked one.
v. 20  And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us an understanding, that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life.
v. 21  Little children, keep yourselves from idols. Amen.

You can not know for sure that you are of the Elect, but we are the chosen, we are in the race!  Never give up, because we are running for the greatest gift any human being could ever hope to have.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

Title: Re: Are you the elect?
Post by: KristaD on May 17, 2008, 11:36:28 AM
I see what Paul is saying there but isn't it a carnal motivation to run for the prize?? I mean, to do right and live by God's laws b/c we want our place in the kingdom? Isn't that basically the same as the churchgoers who don't actually love God and say "well if there is no hell then why live right??" If our motivation is a prize then what if there was no prize? What if we knew we weren't going to "win"? To me it just makes no difference if I avoid the lake of fire or reign with Christ, I simply can't respond to God in any other way than striving to do what He tells me and to put off my sin (and that's only b/c He has made that my desire.)
Title: Re: Are you the elect?
Post by: winner08 on May 17, 2008, 12:24:49 PM
Kristian: If that's how Paul taught ( about the race and winning the crown of imperishable) it only can be a good thing (yes)? I mean if Paul thought this was important enough for Paul to teach us, then it would be wise to listen. Yes? What if there was no prize? We shouldn't even consider this because there is a prize (reward) I don't quote scripture because I always mess it up. But I remember Jesus saying somewhere, your reward in heaven. Reward, prize. So I don't think it's a bad thing to strive for a reward in heaven or strive to be in the Kingdom with God at the end of our race. In the Kingdom (reward or prize). It's a very good thing. Now this this just my take on this subject. I could be wrong.

                                                 Thanks, Darren


                                         

Title: Re: Are you the elect?
Post by: hillsbororiver on May 17, 2008, 12:39:21 PM
Agreed Darren!

Here is more from Paul;

1Co 15:16  For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised:
 
1Co 15:17  And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.
 
1Co 15:18  Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.
 
1Co 15:19  If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.

And some from Peter;
 
 1 Peter 1

 1Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,

 2Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

 3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

 4To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,

 5Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

 6Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a season, if need be, ye are in heaviness through manifold temptations:

 7That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:

 8Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory:

 9Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.

 10Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:

 11Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.

 12Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.

 13Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;

Peace,

Joe
Title: Re: Are you the elect?
Post by: hillsbororiver on May 17, 2008, 01:01:02 PM
I see what Paul is saying there but isn't it a carnal motivation to run for the prize?? I mean, to do right and live by God's laws b/c we want our place in the kingdom? Isn't that basically the same as the churchgoers who don't actually love God and say "well if there is no hell then why live right??" If our motivation is a prize then what if there was no prize? What if we knew we weren't going to "win"? To me it just makes no difference if I avoid the lake of fire or reign with Christ, I simply can't respond to God in any other way than striving to do what He tells me and to put off my sin (and that's only b/c He has made that my desire.)

Hi Krista,

I can see your point and it's rationalization but when we are truly seeking His Spiritual Kingdom that is the polar opposite of carnality, it is the will of God.

Luk 12:31  But rather seek ye the kingdom of God; and all these things shall be added unto you.
 
Luk 12:32  Fear not, little flock; for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom.

Could this prayer from Jesus also be considered carnal?

Joh 17:5  And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

Peace,

Joe
Title: Re: Are you the elect?
Post by: KristaD on May 17, 2008, 01:36:45 PM
I guess I am supposed to be Kristian???
I'm not going to argue about this as I believe it is of no importance. We know that God has called b/c He makes that clear. Furthermore I believe that we are to strive for being the elect only BECAUSE it is the reward, not striving for the reward (to be the greatest) for the sake of the reward. No Jesus was not carnal, His desire was for spiritual reasons not glory for glory's sake for the same carnal reasons that people want glory. If it is God's good pleasure to give me the kingdom that is His decision but it's not something I strive for aside from that it is the reward. I am not disagreeing with the scriptures, I am simply saying that the reward should not be our motivation, we should be motivated by love. I'm done with this now. I don't believe any of God's elect would waste their time arguing or even discussing whether or not they are the elect. Please don't pm me, I am unable to send pm's for some reason so I can not respond.
Title: Re: Are you the elect?
Post by: Kat on May 17, 2008, 02:31:00 PM

Hi Krista, I can't see the harm in discussing the hope that lies within us.   

I guess I will direct this to others who may be interested in this topic.
Don't we all have reasons why we do what we do, we have desires/wills/lusts and we make choices because of those desires.  Our motivations is what causes us to take the necessary action that brings us to fulfill the desires of our heart, whether good or bad.

motive  1 : something (as a need or desire) that causes a person to act. (Merriam-Webster)

Christ speaks of our desires.

Mat 16:24  Then Jesus said to His disciples, "If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow Me.
v. 25  For whoever desires to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake will find it.

These things that Christ is talking about seems to require great difficulty, so Paul gives us worthwhile motivates to follow Christ.

1Co 2:9  But as it is written:
       "Eye has not seen, nor ear heard,
       Nor have entered into the heart of man
       The things which God has prepared for those who love Him."

We know that "the carnal mind is enmity against God" (Rom. 8:7).
So where does this motivation to follow Christ come from in the first place.

Php 2:12  Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling;
v. 13  for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.

So we have been given the motivation from God to "work out our own salvation,"  "to run the race," and yes there is a glorious prize to keep us motivated towards our ultimate goal.  It should be a joy to have this hope of being born into the kingdom at Christ's return, because God is certainly looking forward to it.

Luke 12:32  "Do not fear, little flock, for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

Title: Re: Are you the elect?
Post by: winner08 on May 17, 2008, 02:49:28 PM
As I was reading Krista last thread a certain phrase caught my intention. She mention the Jesus was not cranial. I need clarification on this matter. While Jesus was on earth He was a human being.(correct)? and to be carnal is to be human. Jesus felt pain, He had human emotions. Human feelings. He felt the same as we do. Being the human side of Him not the spiritual side. We don't copare to the spiritual side of Christ. He was perfect. But according to Ray's teaching on the real Jesus He felt as we do.(feelings).Emotions). This just caught my intention.

                                                   Darren
Title: Re: Are you the elect?
Post by: Roy Monis on May 18, 2008, 09:03:39 AM
What about "make sure of your election?"

2 Peter 1:9-10

 9But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.

 10Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

 11For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

I've always assumed that we can only HOPE for election.....? Does the above verse mean that we strive BECAUSE we hope? Or does it mean that we have assurance, because; whatever work He has begun in us He WILL finish?

Philippians 1:6
Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:


We know for sure that His Spirit bares witness with our spirit that we ARE the children of God....

Romans 8:16
The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:


but what does that REALLY mean? Will our spirit and His Spirit stand and be the witnesses necessary to establish that we are His on judgement day, or does it mean that as we become ONE with Christ, and hence ONE with the Father, we are being shown by the Father and Christ that we ARE sons of God? A kind of "ongoing" process? I've often thought about the whole "is, was, and will be" application here. Any thoughts?
Joyce :)



Hi! Sister Joyce

It's me again that nut from over the water.

How true (2Pet.1:9,10), but have you seen that formidable list of all the requirements. It's no walk in the park as Ray would say, and my knees knock at the mere reading leave alone the practice. But at most I can try, try, try and try and hope against all hope that I am able to manage it, or it's certain to be the fire for me.   oooch!

God bless.

Love in Christ Jesus. 

Roy.  "The one who does not love does not know God, for God is love." 1Jn.4:8
Title: Re: Are you the elect?
Post by: winner08 on May 19, 2008, 08:34:12 PM
Sorry KristaD: I don't know where I got kristian. Again Sorry.

                                  Darren
Title: Re: Are you the elect?
Post by: lilitalienboi16 on May 19, 2008, 10:39:39 PM
As I was reading Krista last thread a certain phrase caught my intention. She mention the Jesus was not cranial. I need clarification on this matter. While Jesus was on earth He was a human being.(correct)? and to be carnal is to be human. Jesus felt pain, He had human emotions. Human feelings. He felt the same as we do. Being the human side of Him not the spiritual side. We don't copare to the spiritual side of Christ. He was perfect. But according to Ray's teaching on the real Jesus He felt as we do.(feelings).Emotions). This just caught my intention.

                                                   Darren

Christ did not have a carnal mind, He was not carnal.

The human carnal mind is emnity [Deep seated hatred] AGAINST God. Christ NEVER hated against God nor went against His' Father's Will.

Christ was full of Grace [God's divine influence upon His heart] and i believe He had the mind of God in everyway.

Their are no scriptures that support the idea or notion that Christ had a carnal mind. I honostly think to teach such would be blasphemy.

God bless,

Alex

P.S. I'm not saying your blaspheming because i don't think you teach this, so don't get offended, none is ment. Only love and aid. =]
Title: Re: Are you the elect?
Post by: winner08 on May 19, 2008, 11:50:10 PM
I am not offended. Thanks for clearing that up for me. I see I was wrong. Like i say it won't be the last time.

                                        Thank, 
                                 

                                         Darren                                                     
Title: Re: Are you the elect?
Post by: joyful1 on May 20, 2008, 07:51:55 AM
Roy and all--
Yes, the list is daunting, but with God all things are possible...
and concerning the "striving part"....

He equips us for the job when we put on the whole armour of God....He just covers ALL the bases ALL of the time! (*see Ephesians chapter 6).

Krista--
He is the one who "searches the heart," so if your motivation is correct, HE KNOWS it...He knows everything!

It looks to me that Peter shows clearly that it is God that enables us to "do the list" in this chapter....and more importantly...that IF OUR HEARTS have NOT been changed....and if we are striving to "be good to get the reward" but  NOT REALLY doing things from a new heart, then we won't be able to CONTINUE doing them anyway! Like Kat said;

the only way anyone can be of the Elect is to finish the race.  So if at any point you drop out of the race, you never were of the Elect.


I am continuing my search in understanding HOW we make sure of our calling and election.

I think that we must begin with a sure foundation of TRUTH.
I remember saying empty things like; "Praise the Lord!" in church, years ago....it sounded good, I felt strong emotions when I said it, and I sort of meant it....but not really.....I would look around at people and wonder how I could be more like them, and really be praising the Lord.  Now I know that probably almost everyone was thinking the same thing!

Matthew 15:8
This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.

Jesus again emphasizes doing something from "the heart"...

Matthew 18:35
So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.

2 Peter 1:3-4
His divine power has given us everything we need for life and godliness through our knowledge of him who called us by his own glory and goodness.

4Through these he has given us his very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature and escape the corruption in the world caused by evil desires.

I agree with Kat, in that these things apply to us "once the race has begun."

Then the testing begins.

Now, I believe that the test is not to prove anything to God....but for you to TEST what God has given YOU! Through testing, you prove to YOURSELF that He IS working in you! I find it incredible that I am able to do certain things now that I couldn't have done in years past, because, like you Krista....He is CHANGING me! It is a process! (*I'm also dismayed when I fail, but in my heart, I KNOW that God KNOWS my intentions....and in that I am comforted.)

TASTE =TEST what has been given, is what I see here:

Psalm 34:8
Taste and see that the LORD is good; blessed is the man who takes refuge in him.

Once we've been given the faith to believe, been given the armor to wear, been given the knowledge to know better....THEN we DESIRE from the HEART to do the things that He says! We can't fake this step....its REAL or its NOT! What little change that HAS happened in me, is real and I know that it is real. Because I see God TESTING it for me to SEE that it is real. (*He is also showing me where I have NOT changed but need to. It's a step by step process.)

In order to SEE any of these things.....He must reveal them to us...He must give SIGHT TO THE BLIND.

I  know that these changes did not come from me, or from my efforts/works,  but from God. Apart from Him, I can do nothing! But with God ALL things are possible!

Just my thoughts on the matter. Please forgive the length!

Much love and peace to all!
Joyce :)


Title: Re: Are you the elect?
Post by: Roy Monis on May 20, 2008, 09:40:56 AM
Roy and all--
Yes, the list is daunting, but with God all things are possible...
and concerning the "striving part"....

He equips us for the job when we put on the whole armour of God....He just covers ALL the bases ALL of the time! (*see Ephesians chapter 6).

Krista--
He is the one who "searches the heart," so if your motivation is correct, HE KNOWS it...He knows everything!

It looks to me that Peter shows clearly that it is God that enables us to "do the list" in this chapter....and more importantly...that IF OUR HEARTS have NOT been changed....and if we are striving to "be good to get the reward" but  NOT REALLY doing things from a new heart, then we won't be able to CONTINUE doing them anyway! Like Kat said;

the only way anyone can be of the Elect is to finish the race.  So if at any point you drop out of the race, you never were of the Elect.


I am continuing my search in understanding HOW we make sure of our calling and election.

I think that we must begin with a sure foundation of TRUTH.
I remember saying empty things like; "Praise the Lord!" in church, years ago....it sounded good, I felt strong emotions when I said it, and I sort of meant it....but not really.....I would look around at people and wonder how I could be more like them, and really be praising the Lord.  Now I know that probably almost everyone was thinking the same thing!

Matthew 15:8
This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.

Jesus again emphasizes doing something from "the heart"...

Matthew 18:35
So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.

2 Peter 1:3-4
His divine power has given us everything we need for life and godliness through our knowledge of him who called us by his own glory and goodness.

4Through these he has given us his very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature and escape the corruption in the world caused by evil desires.

I agree with Kat, in that these things apply to us "once the race has begun."

Then the testing begins.

Now, I believe that the test is not to prove anything to God....but for you to TEST what God has given YOU! Through testing, you prove to YOURSELF that He IS working in you! I find it incredible that I am able to do certain things now that I couldn't have done in years past, because, like you Krista....He is CHANGING me! It is a process! (*I'm also dismayed when I fail, but in my heart, I KNOW that God KNOWS my intentions....and in that I am comforted.)

TASTE =TEST what has been given, is what I see here:

Psalm 34:8
Taste and see that the LORD is good; blessed is the man who takes refuge in him.

Once we've been given the faith to believe, been given the armor to wear, been given the knowledge to know better....THEN we DESIRE from the HEART to do the things that He says! We can't fake this step....its REAL or its NOT! What little change that HAS happened in me, is real and I know that it is real. Because I see God TESTING it for me to SEE that it is real. (*He is also showing me where I have NOT changed but need to. It's a step by step process.)

In order to SEE any of these things.....He must reveal them to us...He must give SIGHT TO THE BLIND.

I  know that these changes did not come from me, or from my efforts/works,  but from God. Apart from Him, I can do nothing! But with God ALL things are possible!

Just my thoughts on the matter. Please forgive the length!

Much love and peace to all!
Joyce :)





Hi! Sister Joyce

Please don't apologize, it wasn't too long by any means, if anything not long enough. Your thoughts on the subject were very edifying and sobering. Thank you.

I agree with you, I personally have come a long way and do not have very much further to go so I am determined to put on the full armour and finish the race. The task is indeed daunting but as we are in Christ and Christ in us, I fully endorse your words of encouragement, with God nothing is impossible.

God bless you and thank you for that.
(http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk165/Roy87monis/animated234.gif)

Love in Christ Jesus.

Roy. UK........"The one who does not love does not know God, for God is love." 1Jn.4:8
Title: Re: Are you the elect?
Post by: kweli on May 20, 2008, 12:04:18 PM
speaking of Armour, anybody got an (e-)sword to spare?
 ;D

Title: Re: Are you the elect?
Post by: joyful1 on May 20, 2008, 12:04:50 PM
 :D thanks Brother Roy....you are an inspiration to all of us "kids" here too! Sincerely,
Joyce :)
Title: Re: Are you the elect?
Post by: Roy Monis on May 20, 2008, 04:18:00 PM
speaking of Armour, anybody got an (e-)sword to spare?
 ;D



I sure have brother Kweli. How will this do?  The beast within!

(http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk165/Roy87monis/ANIMATIONS.gif)

God bless

Love in Christ Jesus.

Roy      "The one who does not love does not know God, for God is love."  1Jn.4:8
Title: Re: Are you the elect?
Post by: winner08 on May 21, 2008, 02:28:18 AM
Roy from the UK, you are a trip. I think you still have work to do here on this earth. I pray it is in God's will that you remain here with us for alot longer. You know, it is people like yourself who have all this life experience and share it with people like me, who need to know these things only you can teach us. Personally I think there's no better teacher than the teacher who's been there. Anyways that's just me and how I feel. I don't speak for anybody else.

                                 Thanks for sharing,


                                       Darren
Title: Re: Are you the elect?
Post by: Roy Monis on May 21, 2008, 11:37:54 AM
Roy from the UK, you are a trip. I think you still have work to do here on this earth. I pray it is in God's will that you remain here with us for alot longer. You know, it is people like yourself who have all this life experience and share it with people like me, who need to know these things only you can teach us. Personally I think there's no better teacher than the teacher who's been there. Anyways that's just me and how I feel. I don't speak for anybody else.

                                 Thanks for sharing,


                                       Darren

Hi! brother Darren

Thanks for your kind words and encouragement it is greatly appreciated. Only one correction thou and that is I'm no teacher, that's Ray's task under the Holy Spirit of God's inspiration. I am just a newbie like yourself with everything to learn yet, that's why I'm on this forum to learn not teach. We can all learn from one another in the group that is why God in His own good pleasure has graciously put us all together, all glory to Him.

It is true what you say that over the years I do have a lot of testimonies of my God's love and mercy toward me in times of dire hopelessness which I will be sharing with all in due course. All no doubt predestined by Him  before the foundation of the world, but to me a miracle carried on the shoulders of a broken and contrite heart. This is the lesson I have learned and sincerely believe in: "For thou delightest not in sacrifice; Else would I give it: Thou hast no pleasure in burnt-offering. 17The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: A broken and contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise."  (Ps.51:16,17).

God bless you my brother and help you in your walk in Christ.  (http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk165/Roy87monis/582764wsyepf4i0ngif-1.png)

Love in Christ Jesus.

Roy UK      "The one who does not love does not know God, for God is love."  1Jn.4:8
Title: Re: Are you the elect?
Post by: winner08 on May 22, 2008, 12:10:40 AM
Roy I do not want to sound dumb but I do not understand #17. sounds like scripture what does it mean??



                                                Darren

 ps Please take no offence on that teacher remark.
Title: Re: Are you the elect?
Post by: Roy Monis on May 22, 2008, 08:38:59 AM
Roy I do not want to sound dumb but I do not understand #17. sounds like scripture what does it mean??



                                                Darren

 ps Please take no offence on that teacher remark.

Dear Darren

Vs.17 "O God,Thou wilt not despise." . In my thinking I'd say it means " I pray You'll accept my sacrifice of a contrite and broken heart and not look down on it with disdain." In short, I pray You'll accept my entreaty.

I hope that helps.

God bless you my brother and help you in your walk in Christ.

Love in Christ Jesus.

Roy UK      "The one who does not love does not know God, for God is love." 1Jn.4:8
Title: Re: Are you the elect?
Post by: Akira329 on May 22, 2008, 03:22:13 PM
No but I'm pressing towards the mark of the prize of the high calling in christ Jesus........... :)
I have so much to die to in this life!
Hope I quoted it correctly!
Also.........
I have to agree with Craig and Patrick on this one, I'd be more concerned about my fellowship with those who already believe they are of the elect!! Been there done that!!! and I don't want to go back!!!!
Title: Re: Are you the elect?
Post by: winner08 on May 22, 2008, 03:53:54 PM
Yes, thanks Roy. I get it.

                       Darren







 
Title: Re: Are you the elect?
Post by: jeetkunejimi on May 23, 2008, 12:10:14 PM

God only knows.

Many are called but few are chosen, chosen for what? I guess the privalige to be in the first ressurection at the millenial reign of Christ, to be the Christ's of Christ. That will be awesome, but it matters not what I think I am, labels are for people who need to see fruit rather than feel the effect of one's fruit. As Paul said it's better we call ourselves chief amongst sinners and least amongst the kingdom of God. I may have a greater light now than the one I previously had, but I can't say for certain, I've only got the measure of faith God has given me to go on.

I'll only know when I'm face to face with Jesus, other than that I'll be a long time dead.
Title: Re: Are you the elect?
Post by: LittleBear on May 23, 2008, 12:58:47 PM
Hi Everyone!(http://dl6.glitter-graphics.net/pub/945/945076uyzon4w470.gif) (http://www.glitter-graphics.com)

Hi Joyce, how are you these days? Nice to see you here. Gosh, the list of stuff one has to do is daunting all right in order to get to be the elect. Or is it? I think we can relax. Our God has it ALL under control. I like the way you put it "He just covers all of the bases all of the time." Ahhhh....ok...it's time not to put so much stress on ourselves, and just put one foot in front of the other and keep walking. With Him.

Hi Krista! You are cute and funny. Hi Darren. I have to be honest here, although it may not be the right answer, but I personally don't care if I'm elect or not. In fact, I have to admit, I took myself out of that striving to be the elect...too much pressure. Too many self-imposed requirements, and I'm SO not perfect. I just want to be with God and learn more about Him, whatever direction that may take me.

Joe has already given these scriptures:

Luk 12:31  But rather seek ye the kingdom of God; and all these things shall be added unto you.
 
Luk 12:32  Fear not, little flock; for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom.

That's where I am...fearing not (about being elect or not). Ah, the peace in that. Now I can just focus on walking with the Father.(http://dl.glitter-graphics.net/pub/699/699271cdv95juxma.gif) (http://www.glitter-graphics.com)

Ursula
Title: Re: Are you the elect?
Post by: joyful1 on May 23, 2008, 03:28:50 PM
Hi Ursula! Long time no talkie!  :D
Yes...He does have it all covered....
but I wonder if we actually frustrate God? ;D

Check list for God:
1-- prepare a lamb for sacrafice
2-- create the world
3-- invent people
4-- put tree in garden where they won't miss it
5-- tell them not to touch it
6-- let nature take its course
7-- in the fullness of time, send Your Son to live among us and then be sacaficed for us
8-- raise Him from the dead
9-- send Him into the believer's hearts
10-- send Holy Spirit of God
11--give them your armor
12-- show them how to be an overcomer
13-- require that they learn to become an overcomer....
14-- sit down and explain how to be an overcomer 47 times in a row
15-- remind them that You loved them enough to send your Son to them
16-- reherse becoming an overcomer
17-- remind them that your Son OVERCAME the WORLD in the first place and that as long as they are IN HIM and HE is IN THEM ...things will definitely work out.
18-- Walk with them through the Lake of Fire
19-- settle disputes amongest your children concerning who rules over what...
(* this is the Reader's Digest Shortened Version, of course...but you get the picture right?) :)
Joyce :)
Title: Re: Are you the elect?
Post by: LittleBear on May 23, 2008, 05:04:21 PM
LOL Joyce! I'm exhausted just reading that! Whew! Haha...I laughed at the last one..."settle disputes amongst your children".

Man, we are going to feel very silly one day.

Ursula :-*
Title: Re: Are you the elect?
Post by: ciy on May 23, 2008, 05:40:49 PM
 1 And so, dear brothers and sisters,[a] I plead with you to give your bodies to God because of all he has done for you. Let them be a living and holy sacrifice—the kind he will find acceptable. This is truly the way to worship him. 2 Don’t copy the behavior and customs of this world, but let God transform you into a new person by changing the way you think. Then you will learn to know God’s will for you, which is good and pleasing and perfect.
Romans 12:1-2 New Living Translation

This is how we become the "called, chosen, and faithful".  It is what happens within.  It is believing.  Not the doing.  Jesus says in Mark 5:36 "Don't be afraid, only believe."  It is the inside of you that has to change into a new person.  If we change it through "our will power" then we get puffed up because we changed the outside of the cup.  It is the inside of the cup that changes and that can only come from believing and having faith in the Word.  Truly walking in the truth.  So that you can be one of the first fruits that Jesus was the First Fruit of many.  Must get your mind and heart off of the physical and focus on the spiritual and realize it is all a parable to bring you to the knowledge of the truth.  Forget the physical, it will keep you looking at Jesus as he walks instead of realizing it is Him in you that is the hope of Glory.

Jesus said in John that "if you cannot say that I am He then you will die in your sins."  If you do not realize that "ye are gods" and forget the physical then you cannot be one of His in this age.

Pretty awesome stuff.  It takes gumption to be "Strong and courageous".  To meditate on His Word day and night.   To were that coat of many colors.

God is all in all
CIY
Title: Re: Are you the elect?
Post by: joyful1 on May 24, 2008, 01:35:15 AM
Ursula! LOL! yes we probably will! ;D
Ciy....yes, awesome stuff....
I think you have something there!
JOyce :)
Title: Re: Are you the elect?
Post by: LittleBear on May 24, 2008, 10:54:41 AM
CIY, you put into words what I feel also. It is what happens within, it's believing and being, and NOT doing. We surrender our minds, and our circumstances to what IS, and God transforms our minds to be conformed to the mind of Christ. We need to surrender to whatever is happening in our lives whether we think it is good or "bad". Accept it within, and realize that all things work together for good to those who love God. I've noticed in my life that the rough and painful times are the times when I grow the most in my heart and mind.
Title: Re: Are you the elect?
Post by: musicman on May 24, 2008, 11:51:01 AM
Am I of the elect?  Man, I wasn't even elected to run the projector in the forth grade.  I hear that God's standards are much higher.
Title: Re: Are you the elect?
Post by: ciy on May 24, 2008, 01:50:16 PM
You must believe.  If you cannot wear the "coat of many colors" then you cannot be the elect.  Just always remember that God is not through with you yet.  Also God looks at things differently from us.

1Co 1:28  And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to naught things that are:

It really "ain't over til it is over"  Don't be afraid only believe.

CIY
Title: Re: Are you the elect?
Post by: LittleBear on May 25, 2008, 11:45:09 AM
What does the coat of many colours symbolize?
Title: Re: Are you the elect?
Post by: mharrell08 on May 25, 2008, 03:25:58 PM
What does the coat of many colours symbolize?


Here you go:

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,4891.0.html (http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,4891.0.html)



Marques
Title: Re: Are you the elect?
Post by: LittleBear on May 25, 2008, 06:09:52 PM
Thanks M...I guess there are a few opinions on what the coat symbolizes. That is: identification with the Father, charity, culmination of a mature spirit, the outward manifestation of our faith.

What about you CIY, what does the coat of many colours symbolize for you?
Title: Re: Are you the elect?
Post by: ciy on May 25, 2008, 09:47:00 PM
It is the elect.
 
It is that strange, peculiar people that are set apart from the world.  It also stands out to others that do not have a coat of many colors and makes it obvious that one is different from them.  They will hate you just like Joseph's brothers hated Joseph for his audacity to think that God loved him more than them. 

It is that spiritual difference between the chosen and the called.  I believe that Joshua was wearing a spiritual coat of many colors when he stood against all of the others and when God chose him to lead the people, but told him that he would have to be strong and courageous and love the Word in order to stay faithful and lead many people into the promise land.

That is what I believe about it.
CIY
Title: Re: Are you the elect?
Post by: LittleBear on May 26, 2008, 11:40:45 AM
Thanks CIY. I was thinking the elect= the firstfruits. Jesus was first, we are to copy Him; He is our pattern. Strawberry season is coming soon around here, and you always get those first juicy sweet strawberries that just have to ripen before all the others. There is great glory and joy in being the first! But man, when they eventually get going, all the other strawberries are just as tasty as the first ones.

(http://dl.glitter-graphics.net/pub/948/948971xnw09xskgj.jpg) (http://www.glitter-graphics.com)
Ursula
Title: Re: Are you the elect?
Post by: Roy Monis on May 26, 2008, 11:49:40 AM
Hi! All you beautiful People.

"The Coat of Many Colours" is just one of the very pertinent questions asked by Ray and he sort of leaves us in mid air to do the work of finding the answer by searching the many Scriptures having a bearing on the subject. This I believe is a very important part of his teaching method. Now please don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting that Ray is anywhere on the same level with Jesus, when I say that his teaching method is very much on the same principle as that used by Jesus.

Understand ye not? No we don't understand. Then search the many Scriptures relating to it with the help of the Holy Spirit within you and you will understand! Got it?

In the case of the "Coat Of Many Colours" I believe Joe hit the nail right on the head, the coat of many colours is the sacrificial lamb -JESUS CHRIST. The difference between the Chosen and the just called as CTY suggests.

But there is another pertinent question posed by Ray in his "Lake Of Fire Series Part V111" and it is this. "ARE YOU "CALLED AND CHOSEN" OR JUST "CALLED". In this he leaves each individual to be their own judge, using the same method of examining the many Scriptures for the answer.

He makes no secret of the fact that to meet the criteria of this challenge is a daunting task.

The Scripture I place first on my list is: "Ye therefore shall be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect." (Matt.5:48.).  Without this requirement the answer is, "No Chance" of making it.

Now what does being perfect involve? “You have heard that it was said, ‘YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR and hate your enemy.’ But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you." (Matt.5:43,44).
Considering our dear sister Arcturus' present situation this is what she and her family are presently being confronted with. They need our prayers urgently. It is a most difficult thing to do, as it involves not just the words but the forgiveness must come from the depths of the heart in order to be accepted as perfect. 

For those of us not faced with this mammoth task there is: "…A certain man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho; and he fell among robbers, who both stripped him and beat him, and departed, leaving him half dead. And by chance a certain priest was going down that way: and when he saw him, he passed by on the other side. And in like manner a Levite also, when he came to the place, and saw him, passed by on the other side. But a certain Samaritan, as he journeyed, came where he was: and when he saw him, he was moved with compassion, and came to him, and bound up his wounds, pouring on them oil and wine; and he set him on his own beast, and brought him to an inn, and took care of him. And on the morrow he took out two shillings, and gave them to the host, and said, Take care of him; and whatsoever thou spendest more, I, when I come back again, will repay thee. Which of these three, thinkest thou, proved neighbor unto him that fell among the robbers? And he said, He that showed mercy on him. And Jesus said unto him, Go, and do thou likewise. (Luke 10:30-37).

But it doesn't end here. knowing human nature we must of necessity introduce some stumbling blocks. From the human perspective the man who showed mercy is Perfect, but from God's perspective let us change the cast, colour, creed, race and social status of the victim, now consider does the man who showed mercy still maintain his perfect[/b ]status?

Now let us consider this Scripture as we take each incident that follows separately and consider whether we do it automatically without thinking out of compassion to be perfector do we have to think about it? “All the nations will be gathered before Him; and He will separate them from one another, as the shepherd separates the sheep from the goats; and He will put the sheep on His right, and the goats on the left. Then the King will say to those on His right, ‘Come, you who are blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. For I was hungry, and you gave Me something to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me something to drink; I was a stranger, and you invited Me in; naked, and you clothed Me; I was sick, and you visited Me; I was in prison, and you came to Me." Then the righteous will answer Him, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry, and feed You, or thirsty, and give You something to drink? ‘And when did we see You a stranger, and invite You in, or naked, and clothe You? ‘When did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You? The King will answer and say to them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of these brothers of Mine, even the least of them, you did it to Me.’ Then He will also say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels; for I was hungry, and you gave Me nothing to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me nothing to drink; I was a stranger, and you did not invite Me in; naked, and you did not clothe Me; sick, and in prison, and you did not visit Me.’ “Then they themselves also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not take care of You?’  “Then He will answer them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’ “These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life." (Matt.25:32-46).

We have a mountain of Scriptures to face, the breaking of any one of which disqualifies us:  "Wherefore let him that thinks he stands take heed lest he fall."  (1Cor.11:4)

"If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, cannot love God whom he hath not seen. 21And this commandment have we from him, that he who loveth God love his brother also."  (1Jn.4:20,21).

The message I receive here is, that in order to be perfect I must LOVE my God and NEIGHBOUR or BROTHER with true Godly LOVE - AGAPE LOVE - not the smallest percentage less than that will suffice.

Because God is Love; The one who does not love does not know God, for God is love." . (1Jn.4:8).

Hence I agree wholeheartedly with Ray. To be among the "Called and Chosen" is no casual walk in the park.

Final condition. The first one to meet these requirements must print the fact in big block letters right across their post so that the rest of us can follow Craig's example to collect our running shoes from the locker and RUN.

God bless you my brothers and sisters in our joint walk in Christ. (http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm5/catzgfx/water-reflections/WR002.gif)

Love in Christ Jesus.

Roy UK     





   
   




Title: Re: Are you the elect?
Post by: Pini56 on June 07, 2008, 03:57:55 AM
Hello Winner08

Hope This Helps.

 As we know Jesus better, his divine power gives us everything we need for living a godly life. He has called us to receive his own glory and goodness! And by that same mighty power, he has given us all of his rich and wonderful promises. He has promised that you will escape the decadence all around you caused by evil desires and that you will share in his divine nature.
 So make every effort to apply the benefits of these promises to your life. Then your faith will produce a life of moral excellence. A life of moral excellence leads to knowing God better. Knowing God leads to self-control. Self-control leads to patient endurance, and patient endurance leads to godliness. Godliness leads to brotherly love, and finally you will grow to have genuine love for everyone. The more you grow like this, the more you will become productive and useful in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. But those who fail to develop these virtues are blind or, at least, very shortsighted. They have already forgotten that God has cleansed them from their old life of sin.
 So, work hard to prove that you really are among those God has called and chosen. Doing this, you will never stumble or fall away. And God will open wide the gates of heaven for you to enter into the eternal Kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. 1 Peter Chapter 1.

With Love Geoff.