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=> General Discussions => Topic started by: love_magnified on July 13, 2006, 02:59:17 PM
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Others May
You Cannot!
If God has called you to be really like Jesus, He will draw you into a life of crucifixion and humility, and put upon you such demands of obedience, that you will not be able to follow other people, or measure yourself by other Christians, and in many ways He will see to let other people do things which He will not let you do.
Other Christians and ministers who seem very religious and useful, may push themselves, pull wires, and work schemes to carry out their plans, but you cannot do it, and if you attempt it, you will meet with such failure and rebuke from the Lord as to make you sorely penitent.
Others may boast of themselves, of their work, of their successes, of their writings, but the Holy Spirit will not allow you to do any such thing, and if you begin it, He will lead you into some deep mortification that will make you despise yourself and all your good works.
Others may be allowed to succeed in making money, or may have a legacy left to them, but it is likely God will keep you poor, because He wants you to have something far better than gold, namely, a helpless dependence upon Him, that he may have the privilege of supplying your needs day by day out of an unseen treasury.
The Lord may let others be honored and put forward, and keep you hidden in obscurity, because He wants to produce some choice, fragrant fruit for His coming glory, which can only be produced in the shade. He may let others be great, but keep you small. He may let others do a work for Him and get the credit for it, but he will make you work and toil on without knowing how much you are doing; and then to make your work more precious, he may let others get credit for the work which you have done, and thus make your future reward ten times greater.
The Holy Spirit will put a strict watch over you, with a jealous love, and will rebuke you for little words and feelings or for wasting your time, which other Christians never feel distressed over. So make up your mind that God in His infinite sovereignty, has a right to do as He pleases with His own. He may not explain to you a thousand things which puzzle your reason in His dealings with you, but if you absolutely will yourself to be his love slave, He will wrap you up in a jealous love, and bestow upon you many blessings which come only to those who are in the inner circle.
Settle it forever, then, that you are to deal directly with the Holy Spirit, and that he must have the right to tie your tongue, or chain your hand, or close your eyes, in ways that He does not seem to use with others. Now, when you are so possessed with the living God that you are, in your secret heart, pleased and delighted over this peculiar, personal, private, jealous guardianship and management of the Holy Spirit over your life, you will have found the vestibule of Heaven.
By G. D. Waston
(SOURCE: Faith, Prayer, & Tract League: Tract #76; Grand Rapids, MI 49504)
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Wow!!!!!!!! I don't know what else to say. That is awesome!!!!
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Rules me out.. Just being honest.
Peace in Christ
Longhorn
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Rules me out.. Just being honest.
Peace in Christ
Longhorn
:D
We will all go through it. That's what it means to go to the father through Christ IMHO. I don't think anyone will be left out of that process.
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Ah Longhorn. Your honesty is refreshing. But perhaps you shouldn't be too sure about being ruled out ;D
He may not have taken hold of you like this yet, but rest assured, when He decides to drag you to Himself and guard you as His own, He will. All in His time, my friend; you will be His completely.
mongoose
PS love_magnified. Amen!
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Amen to those words, wow, rings with truth! 8)
God bless,
Gary
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I got a very mixed reaction to this sermon. Seems like a curious mixture of God's will and free will. For instance, How can you will yourself to be God's love slave?
"....Holy Spirit will not allow you to do any such thing, and if you begin it..." ---How can you begin it if the Holy Spirit will not allow it???
I certainly agree with "...So make up your mind that God in His infinite sovereignty, has a right to do as He pleases with His own. He may not explain to you a thousand things which puzzle your reason in His dealings with you..."
The thing that hits home is that we have no real control. We need to accept God's will.
I can only identify with God keeping me poor. The rest I guess is to come if I am called.
feat
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I can identify with "keeping me poor" and "others may" I may not. It seems like God is keeping all the good things in life from me, and no matter how hard I try to obtain them I just see others succeed at the exact thing I strive to achieve and yet I can not achieve it no matter what. I really don't see myself as "special" to God or as one who has "The Holy Spirit" or anything like that, so my conclusion is God either hates me, or is punishing me, or both.
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I got a very mixed reaction to this sermon. Seems like a curious mixture of God's will and free will.
Perhaps this is because as much as we may know EVERYTHING IS CAUSED by GOD, day to day we still feel as though we are making decisions based on our own knowledge and understanding.
I suppose this has something to do with His thoughts and ways being far above ours.
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I can identify with "keeping me poor" and "others may" I may not. It seems like God is keeping all the good things in life from me, and no matter how hard I try to obtain them I just see others succeed at the exact thing I strive to achieve and yet I can not achieve it no matter what. I really don't see myself as "special" to God or as one who has "The Holy Spirit" or anything like that, so my conclusion is God either hates me, or is punishing me, or both.
Thats how I feel exactly. God must really hate me. I have quit searching, praying, and seeking God, and I have stopped worring about being some "chosen" vessel.
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I can definetly understand where you are coming from, until the realization came that the good things of God, and the good things of this world so many seek to have are not the same thing. We are to seek for buried treasure, the hidden things of God. The rewards that come are nothing like what the world strives for.
I can't just come out and say I am chosen, called the elect or any of those things, but I definetly can say I am chastised by the Father. Being chastised by God makes us His sons, and when sons, then heirs. That is the way I see it.
God bless,
Gary
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I can identify with "keeping me poor" and "others may" I may not. 1 It seems like God is keeping all the good things in life from me, and no matter how hard I try to obtain them I just see others succeed at the exact thing I strive to achieve and yet I can not achieve it no matter what. I really don't see myself as "special" to God or as one who has "The Holy Spirit" or anything like that,
2 so my conclusion is God either hates me, or is punishing me, or both.
1Mat 6:33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.
21Jo 4:9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.
We can only have the love of God through knowing Jesus. It hurts me to think that God's children think God hates them, when scripture tells me plainly that God is love, and those that seek Jesus will be fulfilled.
Mat7:7 "Ask and it shall be given, seek and ye shall find, knock and it shall be opened unto you."
Sorin (and longhorn)> you have just prompted me to study into this more....more later.
May the perfect will of God touch your hearts.
Marie
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I can identify with "keeping me poor" and "others may" I may not. It seems like God is keeping all the good things in life from me, and no matter how hard I try to obtain them I just see others succeed at the exact thing I strive to achieve and yet I can not achieve it no matter what. I really don't see myself as "special" to God or as one who has "The Holy Spirit" or anything like that, so my conclusion is God either hates me, or is punishing me, or both.
Sorin,
I can see the Lord chastising you and refining you through your frustrations and troubles, Paul considered these things a blessing and a time for joy, to the carnal mind this would appear to be a sure sign of insanity.
Brother, there are times when your insight into spiritual things indicate the presence of the Holy Spirit and that He is working in you, all of us have "thorns in our side" and go through trials and tribulations and even times when we don't feel the presence of His Spirit as we desire. These are growing (in Him) pains, if it were not difficult we wouldn't be admonished to "be overcomers" to the end. What is there to overcome if the things we think we need are at the ready and at our disposal? If these earthly things are in our grasp would we be open to the spiritual or would we consider ourselves "rich and in need of nothing?"
Believe me I empathize with you,
Joe
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Thats how I feel exactly. God must really hate me. I have quit searching, praying, and seeking God, and I have stopped worring about being some "chosen" vessel.
I can't just come out and say I am chosen, called the elect or any of those things, but I definetly can say I am chastised by the Father. Being chastised by God makes us His sons, and when sons, then heirs. That is the way I see it.
Longhorn and Gary, thank you for that. I wondered if everyone else here felt like they were one of the elect. I certainally don't feel that way. I know, God makes the decision but I am so little, so nothing that I can't imagine Him doing that. I am so much happier with the idea of going through the lake of fire with the majority. I find myself hoping God will burn the carnal out of me, I know it won't be pleasant, only do it later, please, not now. Elect? Me? No way. Just how I feel....and I know, not my choice.
Oh, and I'm a hypocrit too...
Ah Longhorn. Your honesty is refreshing. But perhaps you shouldn't be too sure about being ruled out ;D
He may not have taken hold of you like this yet, but rest assured, when He decides to drag you to Himself and guard you as His own, He will. All in His time, my friend; you will be His completely.
I can tell someone else that.....but apply it to myself....no way..
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I hope I can communicate my questions on this subject. The questions I have on this subject are the same as I had about an eternal hell or how does a short prayer give some an eternal life in heaven and others who are better people than they an eternity in hell because they did not say a prayer plus many other like questions that has led me to these truths. Now having said all of that how can we make a statement that those chosen of God are going to be poor and miserable all of their earthly existence?
Now again do not get me wrong I cannot get peace with this because to do so means I must "reason with my own understanding." Because if this is true then I do not know anyone that is chosen and faithful. If one makes $35000 per year that is too rich to get into heaven or is it $20000. At what point do I become rich? Should I try to do a good job at work, but what happens if I get promoted. Does that mean I am not of the chosen. Should I quit work if I am making too much money. If this is true then I should do nothing in the flesh because it will all lead to vanity. If I fix up my yard and my next door neighbor's is not fix up that leads to vanity. If we seek first the kingdom of God do we not get anything in the flesh that the pagans run after? Are non of the promises of God going to manifest in our flesh in this age? If so why should I obey the carnal laws of government because again that leads to vanity.
It says all things are vanity. That seems to mean if I am a school teacher, social worker, bartender, or blackjack dealer it is all the same. So if I believe that I am a son of God does that not free me up to not get caught up in the things of the world, and if I am not caught up does not that give me more of an ability to be successful in this world? We say, and I believe, that all of the bible is written to the spirit. Then we will immediately say, "if you do not work you do not eat." There seems to be a disconnect here. If someone has enough money to have a paid for $75000 condo, can drive a nice car, and has enough food to be overweight does that preclude them from being one of the one's that can't or are they the others that can?
These are real questions I have, nothing in this post is intended to be a negative statement toward anybody. I love this forum and the truths that of spoken of here.
CIY
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I don't have any great insight into this question. My family is pretty poor but rich if it makes sense. We have food to eat, we pay our bills, have a home to live in and we have each other. We don't make much money but we are rich in so many ways. Maybe if God has blessed you financially He has given you the opportunity to help others with your good fortune. I know that this sounds simple but maybe it will help. Jennie
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In no way do I consider myself the chosen. I don't know that we are to worry about that or to presume. Won't we all know only at the Great White Throne Judgement?? I went and reread Ecclesiates. What a great book. Alll is vanity. But He turns to the Lord. Just read Lamentations also. After all the calamity in Israel, he can say Great is Thy Faithfulness! Wow.
Maybe we are to just live normal, quiet lives, greatful for what He has given us, not comparing to anyone else. We are all rich in America compared to most of the rest of the world. Someone on my street may have more riches than me. Where is the line? Nowhere. We are to live our lives as unto the Lord. To do justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with the Lord thy God. Micah tells us what God wants. All else is fluff.
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I agree with what many are saying. My post was in reference to the original article. It is talking about the chosen is it not? Paul was certainly concerned with being a chosen. He was pressing on so that he could obtain the better resurrection. We are not to worrying about anything, but we are to fix our eyes on the goal set before us and that goal is to be one of the chosen. I want to be called, chosen, and faithful. If I said otherwise, I would not be truthful. I want to be saved in the end so as to be in the first resurrection. I realize the only way to do that is to be conformed by the renewing of my mind. To have the mind of Jesus, and to do this means believing in the word and not in the world or anything in this world including my own understanding.
If we say to be rich in worldly things prevents us from be chosen then we become proud in our poverty. My point is to say not to look at the things of this world but seek first the kingdom of God and let the chips fall where they may. At the same time believe that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him and know that everything is of God and to count everything joy. If we do this then we do not write articles saying everything is going to be miserable here on earth but you are going to enjoy it. That is not true. This is a hypocritical statement until you seek first the kingdom and know in your heart everything is about you becoming the image of Jesus and that everything that happens is of God. Only then can you count it all joy. Only then can you rejoice in the Lord always. If you tell me before hand in a worldly opinion that everything is going to be miserable then the tendency is to not seek first the kingdom. Jesus said seek first the kingdom and all things that the pagans run after will be yours also.
Sorry for my inability to communicate what I am trying to say. Maybe some of this is making a little sense. I do understand that our flesh must die and our spirit live. I just believe that when that is actually happening at some point things will look up as in 3 John that "above all things, I wish for you to prosper and be in good health, even as your soul propers."
Love to all in all things.
CIY
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Topaz, Welcome to the forum. I pray it will be as big a blessing to you as it has been to me. We are all searching and would love to have you come fellowship and learn with us.
mongoose
PS - great posts!
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Mongoose
I am only quoting scripture:
Mt 6:32 (For after all these things do the Gentiles seek:) for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things
33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.
I do not see where we can say "all" does not mean "all". That whoever seeks first the kingdom is included in this. I believe we (me) get so religious so quick that we continuously build up the flesh by our own understanding not realizing the awesome goodness of God. Remember it is all about others. The true believers life is to encourage people to ask about our beliefs that are causing the hope they see in us. The firmness of a completely joyful outlook on this life and the age to come. We cannot imagine a God that can bless us in this life with "all these things" and still be one of the chosen. I believe if we do not use our own understanding and seek first the kingdom we will find some as yet uncovered mysteries that we could not imagine.
I have the questions. Not the answers.
CIY
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Mongoose
Good verses. I agree that I, as we all I think, am seeking the truths and deeper mysteries of God. I posted because of the orginal article posted where it causes us to focus on our worldly situation and causes us to say we do not want blessings, physical blessings, in this age. I believe there is more to this than meets the eye... We need to live each moment expecting the blessings of God to be on us. And whatever we are facing to expect to be delivered because that is hope. That is joy in the Lord. Keep on seeking until we truly feel everything is a blessing. It is all joy.
If we say we are poor and do not want to be rich, we are carnal. If we say we are rich and do not want to be poor, we are carnal.
CIY
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Mongoose,
Your PS is correct, but there again praise God for it. Have a great day.
CIY
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I can identify with "keeping me poor" and "others may" I may not. 1 It seems like God is keeping all the good things in life from me, and no matter how hard I try to obtain them I just see others succeed at the exact thing I strive to achieve and yet I can not achieve it no matter what. I really don't see myself as "special" to God or as one who has "The Holy Spirit" or anything like that,
2 so my conclusion is God either hates me, or is punishing me, or both.
1Mat 6:33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.
21Jo 4:9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.
We can only have the love of God through knowing Jesus. It hurts me to think that God's children think God hates them, when scripture tells me plainly that God is love, and those that seek Jesus will be fulfilled.
Mat7:7 "Ask and it shall be given, seek and ye shall find, knock and it shall be opened unto you."
Sorin (and longhorn)> you have just prompted me to study into this more....more later.
May the perfect will of God touch your hearts.
Marie
Marie,
You do make a valid point, and have given me some food for thought. Thanks.
Sorin,
I can see the Lord chastising you and refining you through your frustrations and troubles, Paul considered these things a blessing and a time for joy, to the carnal mind this would appear to be a sure sign of insanity.
You can say that again. :lol:
But perhaps you're right about the chastening and the refining. Though it's really hard for me to "count it all joy".
Brother, there are times when your insight into spiritual things indicate the presence of the Holy Spirit and that He is working in you, all of us have "thorns in our side" and go through trials and tribulations and even times when we don't feel the presence of His Spirit as we desire. These are growing (in Him) pains, if it were not difficult we wouldn't be admonished to "be overcomers" to the end. What is there to overcome if the things we think we need are at the ready and at our disposal? If these earthly things are in our grasp would we be open to the spiritual or would we consider ourselves "rich and in need of nothing?"
Believe me I empathize with you,
Joe
Thanks for the kind words Joe, and you're right I do have some insight into Spiritual things, but I am also a horrible sinner. Definitely unworthy of any of it. But it is not something that's obtained by wanting it, nor by good works, but rather God just doing what He wants with His own. I think Paul is a really good example of this.
Thanks again guys for your responses,
Sorin
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I do not mean to be an unending nag going on here, but I just want to pose another question to ponder. Are we suppose to live a quiet life? If I am wrong correct me, but I believe that both Mike and Ray believe the characters in the bible are us? I believe this. It is really not a book it is telling you about you and what the plan is for you. We must all be blinded on the road to Damascus. We are to be like Paul and press on believing we are becoming the image of Jesus. Just as he and all of the other disciples shook this world, are we not to shake this world too? I do not know but I believe when we really know the truths. I mean really know the truths. Then we will be set free. Really, really free. When you are really free of any entanglements in this world will you not be led to live a life that is out there? Living on the edge for others. Pushing the envelope because you know the truths and there is no sting to this life or death. You are free indeed.
I do not mean to go on, but I think we should encourage each other to be bold. Live bold. Stand in the gap. Of course the standard reply by "christians" is that Paul said that all are not called to be preachers, evangelist, etc and everybody thinks they are just not suppose to stand out being bold but to be quiet. Paul says there are all parts to the body of Christ and it seems most people (me included) seem to want to be a toe on the body of Christ hidden somewhere down in an old shoe. I think we must continue to fellowship with believers so as to encourage or exhort one another to live loud for the truth.
I am only suggesting. I may be wrong. I will continue to think about it.
CIY
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Philippians 4
11Not that I speak in respect of want: for I have learned, in whatsoever state I am, therewith to be content.
12I know both how to be abased, and I know how to abound: every where and in all things I am instructed both to be full and to be hungry, both to abound and to suffer need.
13I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.
Philippians 3
7But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ.
8Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,
9And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
10That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death
sanctification
1. The act of sanctifying or making holy; the being sanctified or made holy; especially.
The act of God's grace by which the affections of men are purified, or alienated from sin and the world, and exalted to, a supreme love to God; also, the state of being thus purified or sanctified. "God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth." (2 Thess. Ii. 13)
2. The act of consecrating, or of setting apart, for a sacred purpose; consecration.
Origin: L. Sanctification: cf. F. Sanctification.
Source: Websters Dictionary
(01 Mar 1998)
I look to the book of Job as both real and a parable of our process of sanctification. I feel that we will be set apart from all things of this world. Job was set apart from everything in his life. Wealth, Possessions, Friends, Wife, Children, Servants, Health, etc.. It was all later returned to him. I think we learn not to entangle ourselves with things of this world that are perishable, but that doesn't mean we can't enjoy all things which God has given us. Paul was content to have or have not. He was content with all things.
Mark 10
28Then Peter began to say unto him, Lo, we have left all, and have followed thee.
29And Jesus answered and said, Verily I say unto you, There is no man that hath left house, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my sake, and the gospel's,
30But he shall receive an hundredfold now in this time, houses, and brethren, and sisters, and mothers, and children, and lands, with persecutions; and in the world to come eternal life.
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Two good posts Mongoose and MG,
It is a plan that we are living and we will change as we walk that plan out. One who is not a teacher today may be a teacher tomorrow. We are to become the exact image of Christ. What gift did he lack? Keep growing and believing in the Word until our minds are completely transformed. It is awesome that it is all from the inside out. Do not rush it. Be patient, but continuously expect it.
It is that we are joyful whether rich or poor but to not say either is the way a true believer should be. Live life believing, no, knowing with all of your heart that it is all of God. I love in Genesis where Abraham when the truth really hits home he falls on his face laughing. Then Sarah laughs in her heart. Then they name the blessing from God laughter and Sarah caps it off when she says"God hath made me to laugh; so that all that hear will laugh with me." We are to laugh our way through this life so that we will shine like stars and others that come near with laugh with us.
God is awesome.
CIY